What do you guys think about this coup d'etat?

>>3367742
>overthrow a commie like regime: good
>turn your country in a neoliberal/CIA puppet: bad

>>3367742
faggot deserved it

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>latin american leftists are patriots who want to build up their countries
>latin american rightists sell their country off to Jews/Americans

Ironic isn't it?

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>>3367742
>Have the left under Frei literally destroy crop production and increases in real wages leading to shortages in food
>Allende sees this and thinks "we need more of this"
>Get overthrown
Good.

As a chilean I despise both Allende and Pinochet and that stain in our history destroyed educated political discourse forever.

Also, these fuckers completely destroyed our national identity. You ask a chilean to define ourselves and nobody knows how to answer, we are disjointed society with not one political party to represent the interests of the majority.

We got fucked culturally, politically and psychologically for at least half a century.

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>mfw

>>3367873
based helicopter man, SHADILAY my brother! xD

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>>3367872
From what I've gathered, the sentiment seems to be
>Glad Pinochet saved the country from Allende
>Mad that he stayed in power and started handing out free helicopter rides

Does that sound right?

Also post helicopter men

>>3367851

don't forget

>i'm going to appoint a literal chofer as my minister
>y-you're free to stay here as long as you want Castro pls don't hurt me
>lmao just print more money like just make the country richer
>private industry? i don't THINK SO
>private banks? i don't THINK SO
>fuck having finances and logistics and shit, i'm fixing all the prices so everyone can have things
>wtf i love China now
>wtf why are we out of milk
>wtf why aren't people working
>wtf why are we having 600% inflation
>FUGGIN CIA IMPERIALISTS :DDDD

>>3367881
>Shadilay
It's KKK not shadilay you leddit cancer

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>>3367872
>and that stain in our history destroyed educated political discourse forever.

oh hello there

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>>3367920
t. r/the_donald refugee trying to appear wise

>>3367742

Makes me angry, angry about Americans

>>3367742
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy9VvAuCCEg

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>>3367782
Scum.

>>3367991
>unironically supporting Allende
The only thing Chilenos hate more than Pinochet is Allende.

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>>3367929
No, it's me trying to take back /pol/ from r*ddit refugees who made this kekistan thing , then started complaining on other boards about their own leddit memes as though it was /pol/

>>3367997
Wrong. Maybe in your elitist bubble.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandes_Chilenos_de_Nuestra_Historia

>>3367892
Overly simplified, but in a way, accurate.

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>>3368026
Care to give a more accurate description?

>>3367984
Chilean military looks pretty bad ass to be quite honest.

>>3368039

it's the only thing they really need to do to be honest

Bolivia and Peru might stirr shit but they're not going to start a war of aggression, ever, not because the international community might express [deep concern] but because Chile has the best outfitted, best equipped and least-corrupt of the militaries in South America.

and god, believe me, the Chilean military is still pretty corrupt. It's just that we only have to try a little to wipe the floor with our neighbors.

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>>3368015
>Wrong
Right. Daily Reminder that marxism is more bourgeois than capitalism

>>3368047

>"asexual"

that's just "defective hormonal glands" and "violently autistic" marrying into a prissy, self-aborbed person.

>>3368033
Allende was a marxist puppet of Castro, Castro was already cutting ties with the USSR, so our only help would be from a dictator that will soon start to rival the biggest super power in history all by himself.

The US ain't taking this shit, Kissinger plans a coup for Chile, Pinochet being the opportunist he was (he wasn't even going to participate in the coup until various generals of the military forces decided to do so) took power and promised he would step down after order was restored, he didn't (obviously).
He sold the formerly State owned companies to his buddies for pennies, and made a country club out of our country. He also fucked every single type of personal freedom outside of economic one and property.

He drove us to the verge of a war with Argentina (though he did handle it well, siding with Britain on the Falklands war, since Argentina would have fucked us up good).

And he completely fucked us in terms of political discourse and psychologically, nowadays commies are nationalists and right wingers are globalists, it's just a political mess.

>>3368047
This is not a fight, anon. I just pointed you to a poll that proves you wrong. I don't care for your internet wars.

>>3368050
Or alternatively "nobody wants to fuck me so I'm sour graping". The amount of fat women claiming to be asexual is staggering.

>>3368047
This is true. Allende was literally upper class.

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>>3368062
You posted a TV show poll as if it wasn't bourgeois source, therefore you cede your position and prove to the whole thread how retarded you are

>>3367901
Not defending him or communism but US government literally paid certain workers to strike and there's that quote along the lines of "we'll make the Chilean economy scream".

>>3368285
I posted a TV show because TV is a mass media. You're changing the topic only because you got corrected. Your statement was that Allende was highly hated, yet he won a TV show poll.
You are clearly obnoxious on purpose, I won't try to figure out why but I suggest you to stop.

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>>3368316
Anon there's at least two different people here calling you a faggot.

>>3368311

it's not that different from "we'll impose sanctions on Venezuela until this humanitarian crisis stops" without any pretension of sympathy for the situation

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>>3368394
And both of them don't want to engage in a discussion, odd, who could have guessed that right wingers were so close minded.
I thought /his/ was a serious board but this thread is /b/tier. Good bye.

>>3367755
/thread

>>3368450

>I WAS GOING TO ENTER A THOUGHTFUL AND PRODUCTIVE DISCUSSION WITH YOU FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH BUT YOU SLIGHTED ME SO I'M NOT GOING TO GRACE YOU WITH MY PRESENCE A SECOND LONGER

>>3368407
I'm not sure what your point is.

>leftists will be assmad that Chile has the highest HDI on their continent and Venezuela the second lowest
Once again proving that a dictatorship, as long as it is right wing, can actually yield a successful country

>>3367742
Based! I just wish we had a Pinochet right now in the White House. How many liberals and leftists live in America? And how many helicopters do we have? We are going to need a lot of helicopters if we are going to rid the country of vermin.

>>3367892
Seeing Chilean students looking increasingly uncomfortable while some other students who were in the student union kept singing the praises of Allende has been one of the funniest thing I've seen in class. Ended up with the students practically begging for testimonies of oppression by the fascist dictatorship from the little group of Chilean students, one Chilean girl standing with a few students applauding, saying quickly with a kinda thick accent that while the dictatorship was difficult, Allende isn't really that particularly well remembered/liked and that in her case her family had had more problems under Allende (iirc they were expropriated, can't remember), and then sitting back down in an awkward silence.

>>3368624
>be rich
>get expropiated
Comrade Allende now and forever.

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>>3367742
It was necessary and it was better than the alternatives.

>>3368311
I should add that I brought this up to point out that the US did mess with him but by no means this means that his shitty system would have worked otherwise, since communism always collapses, it's a vile ideology and Pinochet was a beacon of good.

>>3368633

have a bullet for free commie

>>3368677
>Allende
>a communist
He was a socdem on steroids. Plus if his system were to fail eventually why would America bother to intervene and eventually back a coup?

>>3368680
I don't do ERPing, thank you very much.

>>3368719
You can't be a social democrat and then do so many unconstitutional things that congress passes a resolution demanding that you be stopped.

That defeats the "democratic" part.

>>3368557
I need to know the liberal population and the leftist population of America because we need a lot of helicopters to get rid of the vermin. How many helicopters do we have?

>>3368316
>I posted a TV show because TV is a mass media.
Which is bourgeois
>Pinochet is hated
Only among the bourgeoisie
>Allende is loved
Only among the bourgeoise.

>>3368450
>Blaming Pinochet for the failures of Allende and Frei
Typical leftists

>>3368736
>TV is bourgeisie
You're clearly not familiar with chilean culture.

>>3368730
I don't think you really know what social democracy means but even if that is true, it is not the legislature but the judicial to deem his actions as unconsitituional. Also not in the legislature's place to tell the executive what to stop doing stuff, hinder him sure but not demand he stop.

>>3368757
>The media isn't the bourgeoisie
Just because prols take there orders and opinions from the porkies doesn't mean they are bourgeois

>>3368768
Well, typically Social Democrats are supposed to obey constitutions and laws.

It's a central part of the ideology in fact.

>>3368771
>There are people who think that Allende was socdem
Kek

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>>3367742
Killing commies is a moral duty

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>>3368741
>right wing blaming left for their own mistakes
IMAGINE MY SHOCK

>>3368771
No dumbass social democracy is an economic ideology not a political one. Tyrants can be socdem too like Gaddafi

>>3367742
Latin America hasn't learnt the important lessons regarding it
>average anon is so poor yet so entitled that keeps thinking that the man is keeping him/her down
>the most zealots of all of them come to the limelight telling everyone that they will put the man in his place and then EVERYONE WILL GET HIS/HER FAIR SHARE (this belief is the very core of all of Latin America's problems)
>those fanatics ride the wave over the people into the power and after a few years, their proverbial incompetence shows (POWER IS NOT FOR EVERYONE, YOU ENTITLED FUCK! yet Latin America does not learn)
>suddenly and out of fucking nowhere, the few decent citizens remaining do something and even more, as a miracle, they succeed
>Latin America keeps thinking that Allende was a good boy, that they deserve their fair share (as if something like that wasn't an impossible concept) and that there's a divine power who must provide it, be the heavens or be the church

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>>3368784
>democracy is an economic ideology not a political one
>tyrants can be democrats

>>3368791
>tyrants can be democrats
adolf hitler?

>>3368786
Your post is so wrong that I'm not even going to bother after this:
>>average anon is so poor yet so entitled that keeps thinking that the man is keeping him/her down
>USA literally keeps Allende's government down

>>3367742
How many did Pinochet kill?

>>3368799
Well, Hitler only won a plurality, he was appointed to the chancellorship.

More broadly, the word "tyrant" implies that a person's position of political authority is unlawful or unjust; Social Democrats explicitly seek an electoral mandate.

>>3368808
>USA literally keeps Allende's government down
Change "Allende" with "chavistas" and you'll see how the world sees you

>>3368821
~3000.

For some context, the Uruguayans killed around 100, the Paraguayans killed about 1,200, and the Argentinians killed between twenty and thirty thousand.

>>3368827
I thought I read somewhere that RJ Rummel claimed that as many as 10,000 could have been killed, with it being as high as 30,000 possibly.

>>3368827
>Ignoring Cuba
IMAGINE MY SHOCK
>>3368779
>Deepening financial crisis
Do I really need to tell you how badly Frei and Allende affected the Copper Mining industries with their "fair" wage system? The GDP began declining under Frei and Allende, what Pinochet inherited was a shit show he couldn't recover the economy from , but by the end of his reign Chile became the most successful economy in the whole of South America

>>3368839
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship_of_Chile_(1973%E2%80%9390)#Human_rights_violations

TL;DR the best estimate I see is 3000 on the money.

>>3368791
>taking a label way too literally instead of looking at the policies he implemented
Seek help with your autism

>>3368863
Is it still possible that as many as 15,000-30,000 may have still died under Pinochet? I'm not trying to defend Rummel or pick a side here but is possible that the regime did kill a lot more than 3,000? We're not counting how many were disappeared by the DINA secret police, the army, etc.

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>>3368791
>The voice of the people is never tyrannical
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

>>3368868
No, that 3,000 includes the people disappeared by the secret police. If it's any consolation, Pinochet did have 30,000 people tortured.

>>3367787
THIIIIIS

>>3368868
>In 2011, the Chilean government officially recognized 36,948 survivors of torture and political imprisonment, as well as 3,095 people killed or disappeared at the hands of the military government

Typically, the most reliable estimate of the body count, in any historical event, is the minimum, and the maximum is largely indeterminate.

>>3368844
> Pinochet inherited was a shit show he couldn't recover the economy from , but by the end of his reign Chile became the most successful economy in the whole of South America
According to Chilean economist Alejandro Foxley, by the end of Pinochet's reign around 44% of Chilean families were living below the poverty line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism#Chile

>>3368882
Fuck, I was meant to post this to you, I don't know why I posted this to me.

So RJ Rummel is probably wrong in that assessment? You still don't think its possible that the death toll is higher than 3,000 people?

>>3368889
I don't doubt that there were people who were killed in the military infighting during the coup, or whose family wasn't around to report their disappearance to the new post-junta government, or otherwise weren't recorded by the government.

The thing is, you can't count how many things you don't know, you can't even estimate.

So the best we can really do is say that a minimum of three thousand people are known to have been killed during the Pinochet regime, and the maximum number is unknown.

>>3368784
Gaddafi wasn't a social DEMOCRAT. You dumbass.

>>3368925
Refer to >>3368867

>>3368784
>No dumbass social democracy is an economic ideology not a political one. Tyrants can be socdem too like Gaddafi
This is what latinamerican neolefties believe. Pure cognitive disonance

>>3368768
Well lucky for you, the Supreme Court of Chile declared Allende's actions unconstitutional or illegal plenty of times as well.

>>3368933
>so·cial de·moc·ra·cy
>a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means
There was nothing democratic about Gaddafi.

>>3368885

Do you have a number for the poverty by the end of Allende's government? because Chile was generally hideously poor for the better part of the century and it's history, not to mention politically unstable and violent.

>>3368939

the supreme court and the congress both in fact

>>3368908
Well thanks for that. Still 3,000 is nothing compared to how many were killed by other rightist governments in Latin America such as the El Salvadorian military junta or the Guatemalan military dictatorship that butchered untold tens of thousands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_Civil_War#Human_Rights_Commission_of_El_Salvador
> A 1984 Amnesty International report stated that many of the 40,000 people killed in the preceding five years had been murdered by government forces, who openly dumped their mutilated corpses in an apparent effort to terrorize the population.

>>3368940
His economic policies was, that is the whole point to be made here. desu there needs to be a new label for 'social democracy from the barrel of a gun' variant

>>3368956
Whenever I think about Operation Condor, I tend to then think of the government of Pol Pot, which was in power during the same time period.

First I think "well, it could have been worse"

Then I think "the late seventies really sucked"

>>3368964
>by democratic means
>democratic means
>democratic

>>3368964
>it was social democracy except it was neither social nor democratic
Okay bud.

>>3368939
>>3368952
But both parties were declaring different things to be unconstitutional. Maybe start with what the judicial's accusations in your arguments and ignore the legislature next time

>>3368971
>>3368975
>More autism on the label and avoiding any discussion on policies

>>3368990
>call something a monkey
>it's not in fact a primate but a tree
>HURR WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT LABELS
Fuck off retard

>>3368990
The policies cannot be social democratic if they aren't democratic, idiot.

>>3368969
I don't know if Operation Condor included Central America but reading how fucked up the El Salvadoran and Guatemalan military governments were and how these death squads killed their enemies in some of the most brutal fashion such as tearing off the flesh of children by dragging them across a field of barb wire is just hard to imagine.

>>3369005

the sheer brutality of certain accounts reminds me of both Chinese numbers and Christian propaganda about the Roman empire.

at some point you gotta stop and tell yourself, "how many weeks of preparation would it take to kill someone THIS horribly" and then you realize it's only dumb conscripts doing it and they'd never have the patience and inventiveness of hollywood serial killers and these were mostly exagerations and they probably just beat them to death.

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>>3368969
>raping nuns and killing union leaders is the only way to avoid literally pol pot
>good thing we stopped pol pot from coming to power by leveling cambodia with bombs

>>3369012
I know this is Noam Chomsky saying this but what I have read about what happened in Guatemala and in El Salvador tells me that it probably isn't rebel propaganda. It's possible they exaggerated how they killed them but I wouldn't be surprised with the death squads and all.

>>3368999
>confusing the method to enact policies with the contents of the policies itself

>>3369027
It's like talking to a wall with you, you're a complete brainlet. Dumbest fuck on entire /his/.

>>3368976
Different anons, anon. So now we're arguing that the two other branches of government's complaints aren't valid since they didn't line up exactly?

>>3369031
Not an argument senpai. Your intense autism about schematics has only deviated the argument from its original topic.

>>3369026

oh, i don't deny they were savage and there were a lot of dead, but stuff like "trained dogs to rape women" and "used electric eels and live rats to penetrate female victims" is fucking ridiculous.

like i said, these were crimes commited by some conscripts high on peer pressure and violent impulses, they weren't cold, calculating psychopaths that could keep people alive through torture like the SS or Unit 731.

>>3369034
I am arguing that the only judicial's complains about unconstitutional is valid, where the legislature is not. Whether or not you agree with the legisature's complains is one thing, but falling back on their claims about Allende being unconstitutional as valid shows a lack of understanding about republics works

>>3369038
>live rats to penetrate female victims
This is real, at least in Chile. Also, they had doctors with them, you're underestimating human cruelty.

>>3369016
I know, that isn't what I meant by that.

>>3369038
I see your point and i don't think that they reached the moral depravity of the SS or unit 731 but still pretty fucked up and savage. Again I don't care for Chomsky but he gave a pretty graphic account.
>On March 7, 1980, two weeks before the assassination, a state of siege had been instituted in El Salvador, and the war against the population began in force (with continued US support and involvement). The first major attack was a big massacre at the Rio Sumpul, a coordinated military operation of the Honduran and Salvadoran armies in which at least 600 people were butchered. Infants were cut to pieces with machetes, and women were tortured and drowned. Pieces of bodies were found in the river for days afterwards. There were church observers, so the information came out immediately, but the mainstream US media didn't think it was worth reporting.
>
The nature of Salvadoran army training was described by a deserter who received political asylum in Texas in 1990, despite the State Department's request that he be sent back to El Salvador. (His name was withheld by the court to protect him from Salvadoran death squads.)

>According to this deserter, draftees were made to kill dogs and vultures by biting their throats and twisting off their heads, and had to watch as soldiers tortured and killed suspected dissidents-tearing out their fingernails, cutting off their heads, chopping their bodies to pieces and playing with the dismembered arms for fun.

>>3369055
>This is real, at least in Chile.
No it's not. It's not under estimating human cruelty that's the problem here, its under estimating people's hysteria and ability to lie.

We're people tortured en mass? Yes. Does that make every story of torture true? No.

>>3369049
>shows a lack of understanding about republics works
Coming from someone who's got Feinstein's famous "It's not my job to make sure what I pass is constitutional" understanding of law.

In the absolute most literal sense, (probably) yes, although I don't know the particulars of the Chilean constitution. But republican politics and checks and balances go beyond the words of the constitution. A lack of constitutional authority to officially denounce the executive doesn't mean that their arguments don't have validity. Just like Congress in America could complain about any unconstitutional actions of the President but wouldn't have any actual constitutional authority to do anything, the Chilean legislature did so as well.

But for them, the crisis that arose seemed enough that the other two branches of the government deemed it necessary to overstep their constitutional authority to oust a rogue executive.

The point is that Allende by that point had long passed the bounds of the Chilean constitution, so any legal grounds for something as petty as decrying unconstitutional actions is a moot point. Allende was defying the checks set in place and it was clear it was going to take extra-constitutional means to remove him.

>>3369078
>denounce the executive doesn't mean that their arguments don't have validity.
Sure but if the best criticism you bring to the table is muh constitution (or at least the posters ITT constantly reminding that was the worst part of Allende) then it should be cast aside as meaningless rhetoric. Maybe the Supreme Court would have eventually agreed with the legislature's accusation, but the very unconstitutional coup was underway by then. So kudos to the legislature for upholding the constitution :^)

>The point is that Allende by that point had long passed the bounds of the Chilean constitution
And my point is that not every dumbass on the street gets to make that claim, even if he was elected to legislature.

>Allende was defying the checks set in place
No attempts was made to depose him save for a coup. You can say the legislature's denouncement was good enough, but the judicial never got the chance to be the kingmaker in this situation. So it is nothing more than a hostile legislature and the executive tussling for control before the military intervene for the former

>>3368877
I'm surprised it's so low, over so long. Goddamn, leftist cry genocide for the littlest thing. Only 3000 dead! That's a good day of battle, at most.

>>3368719
>mass expropriation
>soc dem

>>3368407
Big difference.

Venezuela's economy has already collapsed. Sanctions applied so far were targetted to government officials only, not to the economy.

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>>3368786
>fair share
To be "fair", Chile does have Africa-tier levels of social inequality, though it also has the second-largest GDP per capita on the continent after Argentina.

It is not a stretch for these people to consider their "fair share" is not being given to them.

Map is social inequality by country. (Gini coefficient)

>>3368551
Uruguay is leftist and doing better than both.

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>MUH PINOCHET
>MUH HELICOPTERS
The cry of the alt-right babies

>>3369628
Righties are still butthurt about the 248 people executed in 41 years in my country including dozens of communists and traitors that were shilling for democracy and human rights while using political terror against the fascists 5 years earlier.

>>3369951
>for ants

>>3369064
Latin American dictatorships (especially far right ones) are notorious for their brutality.

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>>3370682
The number of people killed in South America by dictatorships is relatively small, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.

Particularly when you compare it with the democides caused by Communism and Fascism in Africa, Europe and Asia.

Incidentally, Cuba had (has) the most brutal dictatorship in Latin America both in number of victims and the amount of social repression. And it was left-wing.

That's not to say other dictatorships weren't brutal or misguided but your post is bullshit.

>>3368407

>have massive amounts of oil
>country's economy fucking implodes

literal tent living Arab savages made themselves billionaires in a few decades, are Venezuelans just completely retarded?

>>3367742
here´s some footage, including a camera man filming his own death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrhQWzFUFS0

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Those military junta hats though, I think North Korea has a competitor at how huge these hats are.

>>3367965
Don't care faggot be quiet before some condors fly over your sky