Suffering

I don't think so. I have the impression that suffering is unhealthy compared to the absence of suffering, in the sense that the biological state of the suffering body (whether the suffering is physical or mental in origin) is inferior to the biological state of the unsuffering body. And if it's really the case that suffering is bad for you because it represents a stress carried by the body, then I wouldn't call it the natural state. The organism didn't evolve, I think, in order to carry a stress as part of its natural functioning.
However, adult humans are aware of their own mortality and general vulnerability, which tends to impose a background strain on the psyche - and hence, the body. This is probably a recent development in evolutionary history, a fresh challenge to the basic biology. I don't think it's necessarily inevitable. There might be superior attitudes toward mortality and vulnerability, and superior childraising methods, which result in a relationship with the facts of mortality and vulnerability that does not impose a continuous stress.

I don't know whether it is the basic condition of human existence, but the thing about suffering is that now matter how good one's life outwardly is, it is possible to suffer and feel like shit. Now some people manage to be happy under surprisingly shitty circumstances, however under sufficiently shitty outward circumstances it is impossible to be happy I think. There's physical suffering that simply can't be hand waved away with any philosophy or positive attitude. So there's that kind of shitty asymmetry to life, suffering and happiness.

I personally believe that the default human condition is one of neither suffering nor happiness. I mean, think about it, how often can you say you're truly happy or truly suffering?

>>3360125
Most of human experience is neither "truly" happy nor "truly" suffering. Its either suffering or happy. Now suffering in context of Buddhism is very broad. Not just physical suffering but mental suffering. Even in mental suffering, Buddhist context includes much more than typical "oh im in pain" part. It includes things like boredom or the general dissatisfaction within the mind.

More often than not, we're usually dissatisfied with something. Whether its the direction of our lives, the act of doing something, or simply being.

I read OP post and I agree, but then I think actually there really is no baseline to human existence, we occupy the present, which is in a constant shift. we are in constant change so there can not possibly be a baseline

you could substitute tonnes of things for suffering in OP, like "our baseline is a full breath, because we exhale and then always come back", or "our baseline is a full stomach", because whenever it's empty we find a way to fill it"

etc

>>3360382
The argument should be more clarified as "baseline consciousness".

Baselines itself is meaningless since we're unconscious. So is suffering the baseline when we are aware of things? Most likely.

The earth is evil. LIFE on earth is evil. Meaning every living thing on earth is evil. The cat eats the mouse while it is screaming. The lion eat's the gnu while it's innards are hanging out and it's suffering pain, if it's escapes it suffers even more. Life on earth is based on the survival of the fittest, in a good human's eye, this alone is evil. Survival of the fittest? Why are only the fit and strong supposed to live? Only to secure the existence of the further generations? Yes. And that is also evil. We need to kill and suffer in order to secure the existence of one species. Life IS evil, it really is. And it will never change.

But maybe on another planet, somewhere in the universe it's different. Because i don't think that every evolution of species is based upon survival of the fittest. Maybe evolution found another way. At least i hope so, but my views are grim. I think life is evil, everywhere. And only beings like humans can change their way of living, to let retarded people live etc, to spit in the face of nature. If this is a good or bad thing, idk. It probably is bad. But who cares? We are humans and we can do whatever the fuck we want we are not longer bound to survival of the fittest.


"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell

>>3360507
>evil

>>3359818
Joy too

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>>3359818
>Is suffering the basic state/condition of human existence?
Yes.
>>3361583
>Joy too
Not really, no. There's a tendency to want to turn everything into equal pairs of opposite forces, but that's not how it works in reality. Happiness / joy / pleasure aren't opposite forces to suffering or some other side of the story that's being left out here. They're agents of suffering themselves. Just like how the high of heroin isn't the other side of the story to the suffering of heroin addiction but rather a snare that keeps the suffering going. You only want pleasure, joy, or happiness in the first place because you were born into a craving, a sense of lacking that you feel the need to satiate. It's all just another component to the broader context suffering machine.

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>>3361676

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>>3359818
>MOOOOM ME AND MY FROGGIE FRIENDS PASTED A FROGGIE ON A BOOOOODAAAAA

>I THINK WE'RE FINALLY BECOMING AWESOME FOUR CHANNEL HAAAAAACKEEEERS

>OH MAN SO GLAD I FIT IN AGES AFTER I GOT HERE IN TWENTY THIRTEEEEEN

>IS THIS WHAT ORIGINALITY FEELS LIKE

>IS THIS WHAT MEMES ARE LIKE

>HM, THIS MIGHT BE ALRIGHT

>>3359818
Suffering defines your identity, your characteristics as well as your future behavior. I have been betrayed by my ex. It was disaster for me. The loss of trust in someone you loved.
Ever since then I am defined by that event and how it affected me.
I see women as objects now, helps me pretty fucking good.
My ex is useless for me now since she has gotten married to a loser who can't support her and she has gotten fat.
But I will never trust anyone ever, specially girls in terms of companionship.
So yeah. Suffering is good if you turn it into something positive. It is bad if you give shelter to it like I did for 3 years thinking about why she betrayed me.

The sooner you learn this and become mentally strong the better.

>>3359818
I am of the stance that striving and movement or stasis and non-movement is the basic condition of the self-conscious being.
Further, I think the positive claim of suffering as being essential, or of our existence being marked by loss presupposes, without being able to truly offer evidence that is immanent,
something greater than actuality; greater than our self-conscious existence and totally beyond our ordinary experience. Such a view necessarily turns our faculties away from the world,
which is the very thing we wish to address.

I would also make the case that happiness is distinct from diversion. To expand upon my initial claim of what it means to be self-conscious, I would add the full character is the unity of
movement and non-movement with the happy self-conscious being satisfied in reaching this identity. Happiness is not of the world, nor in the world. It is to be oneself in-and-of-the-world.

>>3359818
>It's the basic state of human existence
Yeah, for most people on the planet though. There are people who make it their life journey to absolve themselves from their pains in this life. whether sensory phenomena is good or bad is completely up to the Mental state of the individual, and while Kany of us agree more or less that happiness and suffering are good/bad respective to their phenomena, they are only partial judgements made at limited perspectives, as can be said about any other judgement made by humans

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>>3361676
>>3361689
OK.
Also wanted to add that it's not like Gautama Buddha was overlooking pleasure / happiness for those who are of the mindset that suffering might come up a lot for some people but it isn't a big deal for everyone else. In fact the whole nibbana story / myth starts out with Gauatam Buddha being born and raised in what is basically heaven on Earth. He's an extremely wealthy prince who lives in constant comfort and luxury and is served elaborate feasts and given the most beautiful women to have sex with whenever he wants.
So the Buddhist ideology addresses the issue of "aren't there nice things about life too" pretty much immediately, not at all some balancing force to suffering but instead as a worldly trap that keeps you looping around in samsara groundhog day style until you learn to see through it. It's basically like if you're a farm animal and the mundane world is your owner, and he alternates between whipping you and feeding you sugar cubes to get you to do what he wants. In that scenario, it's not that the sugar cubes are some opposite good force fighting against the evil force of the whip. Both the whippings and the sugar cubes are in fact coming from the same person and both of them are really tools that serve the same purpose of controlling your behavior.