Does Africa prove that democracy doesn't work

>>3357110
America proves that too.

>>3357110
>>3357115
As does Europe.

Not really considering how insanely corrupt their democracies are and how many presidents for life the continent has. As much as America is an oligarchy posing as a democracy, most of Africa is basically just various dictatorships and kleptocracies posing as democracies.

>>3357110
Democracy never works because people will be gradually dragged to their degenerate nature and the spirit will spread. It can spread to monarchies to but usually monarchs are better at raising people to see the big picture and lead accordingly and if they cant they have advisors around them to hide it unless they are huge fuck ups.

Africa proves that black plebs are the worst of plebs.

>>3357110
Switzerland proves otherwise.

Lol representative governments are actually a form of oligarchy. The Ancient Hellenes are rolling in their grave over the ridiculous "democracy" propaganda the West churns out.

Don't drink the koolaid. Maybe various African societies have demonstrated that particular forms of oligarchy did not succeed in their particular society.

>>3357110
Africa was basically a proxy Cold war until the 90's and early 2000's. It's too soon to say imo.

>>3357300
>Lol representative governments are actually a form of oligarchy.

Direct democracies are practically unsustainable in nations with populations over 100 million. Nothing would get done if everyone had to vote on everything.

The three previous French Republics failed. Democracy doesn't work overnight.

>>3357339
>trying to rationalize a reason why you deserve to be a plebe in a country that claims to be democratic

cucked/10 desu senpai

>>3357350
We don't claim to be democratic, we claim to be a republic.

>>3357339
That's besides the point. Let's pretend you can't use the internet to have citizens vote in the legislature whenever they want, let's pretend you can't reform the legal system so citizens can prosecute cases and interpret the law, let's pretend that public offices cannot be determined by sortition any more, let's... etc.

The issue is teaching generations of people that democracy comes from Ancient Greece, and that it has a certain degree of glory and legitimacy. Then, turning around and sticking that label of "democracy" on a different system, stealing that legitimacy and glory. Then, faulting other nations for not being "democratic" enough, but "democracy" really refers to oligarchy. Supreme stolen valour, utter semantic dishonesty, most shamefur dispray.

>>3357384
>let's pretend you can't reform the legal system so citizens can prosecute cases and interpret the law
That would be an incredibly terrible idea, it basically means we'd be open to mob rule in regards to the law.

>>3357110
There are actually a notable number that are okay democracies.

>>3357110
Democracy doesnt work in countries that doesnt value it.

>>3357354
>implying
It's funny how all the politicians white wash republic with """representative democracy"""

>>3357110
truth is that there isnt any democracy, just puppets that serve other people

>>3357384
>Let's pretend you can't use the internet to have citizens vote in the legislature whenever they want

I feel like anything based in electronics is too easy to manipulate.

>let's pretend you can't reform the legal system so citizens can prosecute cases and interpret the law

Anon, I want you to take a second, and think of every time the media whips the people into a frenzy during a high-profile trial and makes them want to have the defendant's head impaled on a pike. People are too easily manipulated when it comes to legal issues that if they were given control of rewriting the laws as we wish, we most likely would become a completeley draconic state.

>>3357421
draconian, I meant. Draconic means relating to dragons

>>3357110
democracy is much like socialism
it only works in civilized societies

>>3357388
No it doesn't. It means that the jury would look to itself when interpreting the law and custom, in light of the arguments of the parties. Rather than, for example, an oligarchic overseeing the jury and instructing them on the law and forbidding them from straying from his interpretation.

The democratic model is revealed not only from historical works and epigraphs, but also over a hundred preserved speeches from the 10 Attic Orators (5th& 4th c. BCE).

Yet, look at this. You value the term democracy so much that you criticise real democracy in the hopes that you can get away with applying it to an oligarchic model. If you want an oligarchic model, I don't fault you. I work in an oligarchic institution and wield oligarchic power. It's not democracy, though, so we must acknowledge our differences or otherwise step up to the plate and reform the government.

>>3357445
>It means that the jury would look to itself when interpreting the law and custom
Yeah that worked out so well with OJ

>>3357421
I'm not calling for democratic reforms. Could it be done? I believe so. However, as Plato says, change is the most dangerous thing. I also don't pretend that democracy is the only "legitimate" form of government.

I am saying that it is bullshit to call representative government "democracy", and further I despise how one set of oligarchs will attack another with that term. It contradicts our education and the Classics, and it is little more than a semantic attempt at stealing a glorious history and sense of legitimacy. It's also used as a club to attack other forms of oligarchy.

>>3357447
Literally didn't. The OJ trial took place in an oligarchic system. The oligarchic prosecution office, the oligarchic court system, and an oligarchic legal system of specially licensed attorneys to speak for the defendant.

Again, you are criticising democracy because you want to affix the term "democracy" to a different system! It's a plain attempt at stolen valour! If you disagree with democracy, and think it won't work, then be honest! Speak truth, use accurate terms, and cultivate your own virtues!

>>3357110
Different nations are better suited to different systems. It all depends on stability, education, economic situation, ethnic makeup (a diverse enough society's democratic politics will always result in voting along racial lines), geography, and culture.

Democracy is a fertilizer, making everything grow. The downside is that EVERYTHING grows. If you already have issues with corruption or ethnic tension or whatever, democracy grows that too. If you have an innovative culture and sectors wanting trade, it'll grow that. Revolution is what cleans the garden for (hopefully) good things to grow in. But revolution also might wipe away a good garden that had tomato plants and herbs and leave it to weeds.

>>3357501
>Again, you are criticising democracy because you want to affix the term "democracy" to a different system!
No anon, I attack democracy because I do not trust the common man.

>>3357501
>Literally didn't. The OJ trial took place in an oligarchic system. The oligarchic prosecution office, the oligarchic court system, and an oligarchic legal system of specially licensed attorneys to speak for the defendant.
And literally all of that was overturned by the jury. The jury was specifically filled with black women, because the idea was that as women, they would sympathize with a murdered wife and want to throw OJ under the bus. What the prosecution does not understand is that black women HATE white women that marry black men, because they see it as that white woman taking a desirable man away from them. Not to mention the Rodney King trial had recently happened, and they wanted revenge for that.

All the systems in place in the world can't stop human nature if given power.

>>3357564
Then surely we agree, the term "democracy" is falsely affixed to systems that are broadly oligarchic.

If democracy is disagreeable to you, then great, the propaganda is irrelevant and you ought to openly and proudly acknowledge that you live under a broadly oligarchic system. Sadly, most people falsely claim their system is a democracy, presumably to gain a sense of legitimacy and a leg up on other oligarchic systems. Or because they are utterly deceived and confused.

>>3357602
I don't care about terms, names are meaningless.

>>3357524
>If you already have issues with corruption or ethnic tension


That shit grows in other systems too arguably a lot more

>>3357638
It's a lot easier to permentantly stamp out the latter in other systems though

>>3357588
This makes no sense.

>>3357640
Not even remotely true.

>>3357588
Right now you are using the results of an oligarchic system to fault a democratic model. Perhaps you are right that the democratic aspect, the determination of the verdict by a somewhat random group of citizens, is the problem. Perhaps not, maybe voir dire was the issue, maybe the tiny size of the modern jury, maybe the need for a unanimous verdict, perhaps the oligarch judge restricting the arguments the sides could make was the issue, perhaps the fact that defendant was represented by an attorney rather than speaking for himself as a citizen, etc.

I will add, though, that in Athens the homicide cases were dealt with by a holdover oligarchic institution, the areopagus. It was a very prestigious institution and apparently handled its caseload well.

India is the best example of this.

>>3357664
Sure you can, as long as you're not adverse to slaughter.

>>3357110
Africa proves that Africa doesn't work.

>>3357110
Democracy doesn't "work", it's strong constitutional law that works. Any democracy lacking that fails.

>>3357310
You are correct. African countries have been growing very rapidly and they present crime rates far lower than Latin American countries. Take Botswana, for example. The world's fastest growing economy.

>>3358143
What about on the Isle of Man?
Yeah only like 50 people live there, but it's still a thousand-year democracy

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76KB, 912x772px

>>3357298
Swiss here

Mfw

>>3358149
Latin America used to have lower crime than the USA until we started the War on Drugs.

fwiw I do agree that we'll soon see a boom in Africa comparable to the Asian Tigers in the 60s-90s. Nigeria, Cameroon, and Ghana are already beginning to overtake poorer Eastern European countries.

>>3357110
You can't implement democracy in every populous and expect it to work.