Did Spartans contribute Anything?

Yes
If it wasn't for Spartans all Europe would be speaking Iranian right now

>>3348270
They saved Greece from Persian pride and Athenian ambition

>>3348270
yoghurtniggers

>>3348270
Seriously
With no roids, juice and heavy weights how big Spartans really were?

I suppose they were not DYEL but not really big though

>>3348278
>>3348283
>Spartans stopped the Achaemenids
wut

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>>3348313
WRONG

>>3348325
That's a statue of Heracles, he was not a spartan, or even a real person. That is also not how real musculature looks, just an artist's impression of what he thought impossibly huge muscles would look like. Those obliques in particular are quite fanciful.

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>>3348270
>Big Muscular Warriors
They weren't warrior society at all. They were a Greek oligarchy and leisured gentlemen living off the labor of their slave underclass and never working a day of their life like all honest Greeks aspired.
Here's an excellent post by Iphikrates over at r/askhistorians

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>>3348967

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>>3348977

When Sparta defeats Athens, Critias then overturns Athenian democracy and abrogates all freedoms,

Critias initiates the first known peacetime extermination as part of a systematic doctrine, requiring that all well-to-do political "misfits" be eradicated and their wealth appropriated by the state.

After Critias's death in battle, a posthumous backlash against him and his skeptic associates is fatal to his estranged tutor Socrates

The name for half of all sports teams?

>>3348270
If it wasn't for Sparta we'd all be speaking Attic Greek by now.

>>3348980
>spartans weren't even that good lmao they were just better than everyone else.

sure they weren't super soldiers but you'd take 1k spartan hoplites over any other greek city states.

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>>3349179
I'd take three hundred gay Thebans over a thousand Spartans.

>>3349245
Sacred band were special forces so that doesn't count.

>>3348325
Some of those back muscles don't even exist

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>>3348313
They were functionally muscular, not body builders. This is the ideal greek body, and it's not like a weight lifter's

Spartans contributed a lot when you take them in the context of Hellenic civilization. All the achievements of 4th c. Athens would be lost if not for Sparta (A) leading and maintaining the Hellenic world throughout the 5th century, and (B) Sparing Athens from utter destruction at the hands of Theban savages.

>>3348967
>>3348977
>>3348980
Don't read that, it's clearly written by a butt hurt anti Spartan partisan. If not for the Spartans, the actual Iphikrates would have been killed at the hands of Thebans at the close of the Peloponnesian War.

>>3349245
No thanks

Yes, Sparta suffered a major setback in the 4th c. and Thebans were involved. Boeotians had good timing, a plan, and some luck. But their inferiority was proven when they were fought to a standstill and then btfo within a single generation.

>>3349374
Herakles was mixed race, he must have inherited those muscles from his father.

The Spartan kings were descended from Herakles and likely had similar muscle groups.

>>3349995
No it was written by someone with a PhD and who is a researcher on Greek warfare. It's not butthurt, it's what we currently know about the Spartans.
As was mentioned on the post, there's a lot of writing about the Spartans that came from later time frames like the Romans and the Victorians. What he wrote is what we know from what little primary sources we have. There's a reading list there if you're interested

>>3349179
I don't think anyone is disputing that the Spartans had an edge over other cities states. Despite what one may think the Greek hoplite was in general an untrained and undisciplined militiaman.
The Spartans had an edge in their discipline instilled to them via their (non-military) education, their officer hirechy and their very basic military training in the form of basic military formations.
The biggest advantage the Spartans had was their ability to maintain their cohesion.
The post doesn't say they weren't good, in the context of Greek warfare they were pretty good, but the Spartan really wasn't a hard core warrior society. They did model themselves to be the ideal Greek citizen and for the most part they achieved political stability.

>>3351193
Wrong, and don't expect me to bow and scrape before academia like some peasant. I have read literally every primary source on Sparta. Further, there are no primary sources in his reading list! Is he just regurgitating another academics opinions, and grabbed his primary source quotes from them?

His butt-hurt is palpable, his reading list is all secondary sources, and don't pretend that you can exclude opposing views by crying "muh professor said, muh PhD, muh elite school"

>>3352168
the greeks would slap you silly for disrespecting your elders in such a way, boy

>>3352168
>I have read literally every primary source on Sparta.
is that so? list them here for us please. Also, have you read all the epigraphs

They even more gay than thebens

Friendly reminder that today's Butthurt Shitpost is tomorrow's Primary Source

>>3352304
Not before they've mocked you for pretending to know how old I am.

>>3352324
Yes, no, and I concede there are plenty of epigraphs from the ancient world that I've not read. Do you see the "muh phd, muh academic status" guy relying on them, though? Perhaps he took note of some while reading his modern secondary sources.

If you're looking just at texts that predate Sparta's loss of independence, the list isn't all that long. If you cast a wider net and include people from Roman times, it grows a fair bit, but it's still easily covered by those who are interested.

Nothing about my claim regarding primary sources is ridiculous. Sorry not sorry that I read them and can tell how tragically butt hurt the academics are about Sparta. Your appeal to academic authority is laughable.

Also, on a side note, Victor Davis Hanson is a Theban sympathiser. DO NOT fall for his siren song.

>>3352441
i was only semi mocking in that post. i'm genuinely curiosity whether youve read the archaic spartan poets. i'm not the other poster by the way. that said, there's something to be said for the merit of academic historians. by the looks of it though that redditor has no grounding in historiography of sparta and its enamored with "novel" interpretations as demonstrated by how recent all those sources are. I mean ffs he doesn't even list Cartledge or the "spartan tradition", the former being the dean of spartan studies.

>>3348270

They made a huge impression, if that counts as a contribution. As an example and inspiration to later societies they've doubtless contributed more than most Greek city states, albeit not as much as Athens.

>>3348334
>or even a real person.

The myths told about him are just myths of course, but Herakles certainly existed. SOMEONE established the worship of the Twelve Olympians, that person is the real Herakles, for all that everything else we "know" about him is probably myth.

>>3348990
>Critias initiates the first known peacetime extermination as part of a systematic doctrine, requiring that all well-to-do political "misfits" be eradicated and their wealth appropriated by the state.

Yeah, no, this kind of thing has happened since the neolithic.

>>3352484
Sorry, I thought you were trying to be a a dick. There was a guy in another thread that went after me and ended his post by saying "Source: Art History Major". No roll-eyes big enough.

Anyway, yes, I have read the ancient poets who dealt with Sparta. Further, I've read the major historians, philosophers, and the relevant speeches from the 10 Attic Orators. For later authors, I have read the relevant parts of Plutarch, Cicero, etc. Nothing Byzantine (although I have read various quotes from the Souda). I also have an online account with Loeb which comes with a nice search function.

Anyway, yes, you're right that some academics are worthwhile. I like Paul Cartledge, and read two books in particular from him and others that discuss Spartan history from pre-history to early post-Roman times.

The sources for post-independence Sparta are few and far between. Also, as a private individual I am not going to gather up all the epigrams. Those two texts gives extensive geographic information; I've been to Sparta, but he gives greater detail than I could ever hope to gather. Also, I was not present at the excavations and have not reviewed many of the texts regarding them. Even today things like the Sanctuary of Artemis Orthia is surrounded by an iron fence, and other sites can be a real bitch to find.

I've never posted on Reddit, so I'm not familiar with their views.

PS: Here's the two books I'm thinking of:

https://www.amazon.com/Sparta-Lakonia-Regional-History-1300-362/dp/1138137944/

&

https://www.amazon.com/Hellenistic-Roman-Sparta-Paul-Cartledge-ebook/dp/B00IC8JLYS/

Been a while since I read them, good stuff. No replacement for primary sources, and I don't agree with all the conclusions contained within, but at any rate a good read for the private individual who has read the primary source material.

>>3352578
>he doesn't understand the myth of Sparta
Waw what a retard

>>3352484
That's because Cartledge work is outdated in current academia, mon ami.

>>3349995
In what way is that post "anti-Spartan"?
In no way does it paint Sparta in a badlight and actually praises Sparta's military prowess.

>>3348270
Were Spartans all chads?