Trotsky's USSR

Also, what would the world look like had he possessed the reins of the Soviet Union?

>>3347329
Trotsky was Robespierre (chaotic evil) while Stalin was Napoleon (lawful evil or true neutral). Of course Trotsky's USSR would've been much worse.

Yes, only moronic trotskyites who think "hurr durr Stalin hated him therefore he was benevolent and democratic" believe otherwise.

>>3347339
>lawful

>>3347329
>I know that AlternateHistoryHub made a good video
Kek

Stalin did nothing wrong.

>>3347329
Well considering that Trotsky was one of the main architects of the "Red Terror" (preceding Stalin's Great Terror) and he was the one that advocated for collectivization of farms and carrying out terror.
Not to be this fag but this user from quora sums it up. Stupid faggot tankie that posted that Stalinboo shit from a few weeks ago.

>Actually, if you look at what Trotsky was standing for, he looks even worse than Stalin. While Stalin kept about 6% of workforce in labour camps, Trotsky was proposing “Labour Army” - meaning 100% of workforce in camps, turning the whole country into Gulag with only Communists having some degree of freedom.

Also that Alternate History hub was bullshit because while Cody might have mentioned of Trotsky's ruthless nature he seemed to have gone more easy on that fuck Trotsky. I really don't care if Stalin killed Trotsky because Trotsky would imho would end up like Mao except probably worse.

>>3347329
socialism always devolves into violence because it goes against human nature. Capitalism is the most natural for humans to practice.

Whatever Trotsky does stays in Mexico. Honestly speaking though, a comparison between Trotsky's actions during the Lenin era and Stalin's action, it wouldn't be too shocking if Trotsky was as brutal. The guy really has no bounds, just like his theory that prioritized worldwide socialist expansion. I don't think he'd have as life casualties as Stalin, but speaking in rule, he'd probably be way more oppressive and represent a Big Brother society more so.
Never trust a guy that looks like Colonel Sanders.

>>3347329
/leftypol/ go away.

>>3348581
post link quora plz

>>3348639
Granted this is a Russian who is saying this and its from an expert on this but what've read up on Trotsky, he was a ruthless bastard.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-common-misconceptions-about-Joseph-Stalin

>>3347339
>>3348521
>>3348535
>>3348581
Sure is tankie in here. You shills can't deny that Trotsky was the one who made the most headway in supporting and getting off the ground peaceful socialist movements worldwide, to say nothing of his friendship (and eventual cucking) of Diego Rivera and the worker's movement in Mexico.

Trotsky tried to enter the US to speak on behalf of communist movements there and defend both them and himself before the House Of Unamerican Activities. He was denied visa to enter, and Stalin's Party denouced him as an American puppet.

>I have no need to refute here once again the stupid and vile slander of Stalin and his agents: there is not a single sport on my revolutionary honour. I have never entered, either directly or indirectly, into any behind-the-scenes agreements or even negotiations with the enemies of the working class. Thousands of Stalin's opponents have fallen victims of similar false accusations. The new revolutionary generations will rehabilitate their political honour and deal with the Kremlin executioners according to their deserts.

Published mere months before he beat the shit out of Stalin's flunky for sticking an ice axe in his head.

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>>3348535
Indeed :^)

>>3348651
>Granted this is a Russian who is saying this

the communist/socialist party is actuely the second largest party in russia the reason why they get heard of much is that putins been in power since 2000...

>>3348731
*dont

>>3348731
The person that brought up the proposed Labor Army maybe Russian but he lives in Australia. I still thought it was an interesting find on Trotsky. There are too many people that are jerking off to Trotskyite propaganda (not that Stalin was great) and its gotten annoying how people come to the pathetic defense of Trotsky.

>>3347329
Pertinent:
https://youtu.be/ezmKhzGvKG4

>>3348624
OP here, I'm an ancap.

>>3348652
Trotskyist commie shill detected. Fuck off lefties.

>>3348652
Trotsky is a faggot who was a bloody tyrant when in power and started playing a good boy socialist who only wants peace and human rights once he got kicked the fuck out of Russia.

>>3348622
capitalism isn't even 1,000 years old

our "natural" state is hunter-gatherer

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>>3348652
>peaceful socialist movements

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>>3348652
He was fairly cruel when dealing with dissent. A shining example is the Kronstadt rebellion. Pic related.

>>3349208
>I'm an ancap.
kys

The only reason why Trotsky is remembered as some sort of humanist is because he was an intellectual Jew who socialized with artists in the West.

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The really interesting question is: what would Bukharin's USSR look like?

>>3349208
even fucking worse you underage faggot

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>>3349230
yes goy, our natural state is to be primitive savages in bumfuck nowhere scavenging for food and not doing anything with our intellectual capabilities. yes goy, very good! very good goy!

>>3349351
Like modern day China. Bukharin would have been the Deng Xiaoping of the USSR.

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>>3349351
He looks like the guy who plays Freddy Krueger

>>3349351
Golden boy is best boy. Russia would be developed today.

>>3349314
You're nice

>>3349371
Wow, how nice.

>>3349405
"I'll send ya to the gulag, bitch!"

>>3347329
Wouldn't Trotsky be the equivalent of Mao taking power in the USSR? Stalin and Mao have been anti-revisionists and Mao did denounced the USSR in 1956 after Khrushchev denounced Stalinism at the 20th Congress of the CPSU, however Mao himself never really got along with Stalin despite having closer ties between the two in the 1940s and in the 1950s.
Wouldn't Trotsky essentially be Mao of the USSR?

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>Removes socially progressive ideals such as communal child bearing and lgbt nonsense
>Replaces them with traditional values
>Promotes Russian "soviet" Nationalism
>Purges the eternal Canaanites and kicks them to a frozen shithole
>Still makes "intellectuals" mad with his mountain climb gear shennanigans

>>3347339
Good analogy.

>>3348528
What?

>>3348535
And back to leftypol you go

>>3348623
Lol. I like your view. I agree.

>>3351066
Go away tankie scum

>>3350988
Not really. Mao had a very stalinist view of diplomacy and his role in politics.

>>3351541
That is certainly true but maybe I should have rephrased it differently with Trotsky. I'm kind of inclined to say that he was like Mao in the sense that Stalin never favored a Cultural Revolution in the USSR where I would see Trotsky in similar way like Mao in that sense. I could see a Cultural Revolution of some sort erupting under a Trotskyite lead USSR. Trotsky and the old school Bolsheviks were that fanatically driven by that ideology that I could see something like that occurring in Trotsky's USSR.

>>3348652
I'm not a fucking tankie you retard. I just hate Trotsky even more because he would created a tyranny far worse than Stalin did. I really don't give a shit if Trotsky got killed by Stalinist agents in Mexico. Fuck Trotsky.

>>3351943
Very good then. You and I agree.

>>3351931
Indeed he would. I agree.

>>3351943
Oh wait you didn't direct that at me

>>3353015
Wait what? I'm confused now. I was just responding to someone who was calling me a "tankie" a laughable idea because I think tankies are retarded. I just find Trotsky for more unsavory.

YO
>attacks the Kronstadt sailors
HOL UP
>creates blocking detachtments
SO YOU BE SAYIN
>has White soldiers gassed
HOL UP HOL UP
>institutes labor armies
YOU TELLIN ME
>stabs Mahkno in the back
WE WUZ PEACEFUL AND SHIEEEEET?

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>>3349351
>>3349405
>>3349410
The based "what could have been" of communism mentioned

Nikolai really deserved his Golden Boy title.
After stalin died they found a note in his desk from Bukharin saying "Koba, why do you need me to die?" Their past adds gravity to it cuz Bukharin was the one that showed him the ropes of revolutionary politics and how to write analytical papers when stalin was just muscle/bank robbing for the cause. His wife wrote a book "This I cannot forget." She paints a pretty good picture of him getting increasing nervous as their friends/colleagues get purged one by one. Meanwhile, according to her accounts, stalin is a real sociopath in person, really fucking with people's heads.

>>3349228
This.

>>3353144
It still boggles my mind that people are that naïve to look up to Leon Trotsky. Also Hitchens may have said some things I could agree with but at the end of the day, he was way too apologetic towards Trotsky. How can anyone look up to Trotsky?

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Stalin was a thug doing all he could to prove himself to Lenin, the Ulyanov's and The Party. His movement solidified Leninism, and made way for his rise to power (Stalinism) later on. Trotsky was a propagandist, planner and strategic intellectual who had his own ideas and vision for the Soviet Union called Trotskyism. It was far less brutal than Stalin's and he even spoke out against Stalin's brutality which lead to his deportation to Mexico and eventual assassination there. In short, Trotsky would have used persuasion to advance the party worldwide rather than Bloc Bolshevism and Military Industrialism. Perhaps the USSR would have survived to today with a better reputation with him in charge.

>>3353175
because Stalin was bad, so Trotsky must be inherently better somehow, despite the fact that Stalin was just a thug but Trotsky was a calculating killer

>>3353183
>literally the leader of the Red Army wouldn't have used the military to expand the USSR
pick yourself

>>3353175
>How can anyone look up to Trotsky?
Because he died before he could do anything.

>>3353216
Well he did plenty of damage when he was still alive especially as many pointed out during his time as the leader of the Red Army.

>>3353183
>Perhaps the USSR would have survived to today with a better reputation with him in charge.
No.

>>3353222
People would excuse that. Many Trotskyists I know keep insisting the Kronstadt rebellion was a western backed coup and what Trotsky did was necessary.

>>3353249
the Kronstadt sailors were British agents
Mahkno was a German agent
Trotsky dindu nuffin all those White PoWs just executed themselves

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>>3353245
Way to assert your opinion with no supporting evidence. Nice strawman. Go back to /pol/ faggot.

>>3353249
>When you're this devoted to Trotskyism you believe in this shit.
Hey Trotsky murdered children but its okay, he's not Stalin! Stalin=bad! Trotsky=good!

>>3353255
>Criticizes Trotsky in previous posts gives you evidence of his brutality.
>Go back to /pol/ faggot! Trotsky dindu nuffin wrong. He's a good guy!

>>3353258
All the commies were brutal. The question was about if Trotsky would have been less brutal later on, and I sited the man's own work. You can't just cling to the past without evidence of it continuing on. The man wanted peace!

>>3353272
Leon Trotsky wanted peace? Kek! That's a good one. If he wanted peace he wouldn't be advocating for global revolution and for war on Europe. He was a madman and no better than Stalin was. Trotsky doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy because he was a hypocrite and a murderer as well. Fuck Trotsky.

>>3347329
Is that Steven Spielberg?

>>3353031
I thought you were talking to me. OP here.

>>3353049
FUCKING KEK

>>3349228
THIS.

>>3349351
>not based Kamenev and Zinoviev
really out there but probably would've neutered the revolution and liberalized if they played their cards right.

>>3353175
Because Stalin was so mind boggling cruel that most assume that anyone could be better.

>>3353199
THIS.

>>3353256
Kek

>>3353342
This.

>>3347339
>has literally no knowledge of Stalin

>>3353955
Why?

>>3353175

Most people know that Stalin was brutal, so they naturally assume that Trotsky was somehow better. They don't know that Trotsky was obsessed with killing clergymen for no reason.

>>3353342
Stalin was tyrannical but rational, Trotsky was fucking batshit.

>>3353992
True.

>>3353987
Does one need a reason