Can ANYONE retort this?

>>3346961
This guy's a fucking idiot. I don't know why people look up to him so much.

>>3346961
An axiom is just an assumption from whicg you start your reasonin.

I think (axiom)
I am a thinking thing
I am

>>3346966
this is literally the best retort peterson haters can come up with

>>3346961
It's impossible to truly prove anything. Gods got nothing to do with it, it's just that we're limited by own subjective perecption of reality.

>>3346961
I guess those fairy tales are true.

I am firmly convinced that the only consistent Atheist is a Postmodernist

>>3347026
I'm firmly convinced Peterson himself is an athiest

>>3347032
sort yourself out

Then how do buddhists who dont deify buddha prove things?

>>3346961

Faith in God is a prerequisite for believing in God, but not relevant for anything else.

Religious people who rely on axiomatic arguments are just as insufferable as logical positivists .

This kind of thinking assumes that people only believe in one type of religious structure.

>>3346961
"God" and "Axiom" are not the same thing.

that's not what godel proved

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>>3346961
>as Godel proved
Reminder that any time someone brings up quantum physics, evolutionary biology, or Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems in a philosophical context, it's safe to assume they're retarded.

>>3346961
>axioms
or we can just treat truth as the best available explanation for the given data/circumstances/situation/phenomena and not be massive absolutists

if god isn't real is OP still a faggot tho?

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>>3346966

>>3346961
God is a fucking QUEER lmao! Get fuckin rekt nerds.

>>3347517
Correct

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>>3346961
faith in proof is a prerequisite for proof
faith in axioms is a prerequisite for proof
faith in God precludes proof by discarding it as necessary for justification

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>>3347517
>evolutionary biology


all biology is evolutionary

the phrase "evolutionary biology" is a bit redundant

>>3348261
>faith in proof
nigga what. You don't have to have "faith" in proofs, you must just not be a brainlet in order to understand them.

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>>3348277
All material phenomena filtered through sensory organs require a modicum of faith from the beholder. I have faith when I drive that every person I pass isn't going to veer into me

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>>3346966
Fuck off peterson is based

>>3348324
What is with this influx of autistic youngsters sporting Pepe memes and unironically supporting Trump?

Is this the rise of the autists?

>>3348324
>these are the people who call you SJW's/cucks/numales

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I bet the people bashing Peterson because of this don't even understand the incompletness theorem and why it utterly rapes the silly material reductionist idea that we just literally explain everything with just math and then use math to prove itself right. That's the implication, that math can't prove itself right, which is exactly why people instantly deflect with shit like >>3347517 because their brain can't handle that their entire world view is vulgar and wrong.

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>>3348324
In 20 years that kid will be a liberal just like his conservative dad was liberal when he was 20.

>>3348342
Fuck off, leftypol. Like you look any better.

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>>3346966
At the end of the day, Peterson is from northern Alberta the ultimate bastion of rural and suburban retards to ever exist, worse than even West Virginia and Ohio. Image a bunch of low class british people merged with a bunch of ukrainian serfs then found oil and became "nigger rich" while boasting about "hard work" and "country boy strong". The average Albertan aspires to a mcmansion with a Ford F-150 lift kit, topics of conversation include engine horsepower, sports, and bragging about how much overtime you get at work

Alberta MUST be destroyed

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>>3348368
>rural and suburban retards
The day will come when people like you will hang.

>>3348368
Ohio is a state full of niggers if anything.

>>3347151
To Peterson it is. To him God is more like an abstract concept rather than a tangible thing or description of reality.

>>3348379
Wrong

Severe fentanyl/heroine addiction, and 24/7 sports coverage will wipe out the rural and suburban retards LONG before they manage to organize

>>3348391
Please leave this website, you city dwelling scum. You people are like ants, not even human.

>>3348399
He's probably from Toronto, the untermensch capital of the Earth.

>>3348346
>Make observations
>Use logic to make mathematical structure to precisely predict observations
>it werkz
>Godel shows that any logical structure will have statements that can't be proven to be true or false

MATERIALISM IS FALSE! CIRCULAR REASONING!

How stupid are you?
>anime pic
never mind

>>3348399
>lives in suburbia
>calls others scum
lmao

>>3346961
There's no reason why your axiom could not be derived nomologically or conceptually.

How do you prove that a 4 sided triangle doesn't exist? It's not possible conceptually. Nothing about that requires a belief in God.

>>3348414
I don't, but suburbia is comfy, you communist faggot. I bet you don't even believe in marriage or monogamy, you degenerate filth.

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>>3348404
As if suburban retardism wasn't bad enough, Toronto is mass importing third worlders and converting them into suburban retards subdivision by subdivision that can best be summed up as radical suburban poo-in-looism

Toronto is the worst city on EARTH, video related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYYdQB0mkEU

>>3348387
What he has is Plato's conception of God. A timeless, invisible orderer of the universe that just makes logic happen because you say it does.

>>3348436
You're preaching to the choir.

>>3348429
Depends on the state honestly.

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>>3348444
You don't understand anything about Peterson, do you?

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>>3348324

POST MORE OF THIS SHIT IM DYING LOOK AT HIS DICK LMAO

>>3348489
>leninist

Why does it have to be faith in specifically God? That's presuming a lot about me, isn't it?

>>3348346
>math can't prove everything
>therefore God
That feels like a reach

>>3348630
You don't even understand the argument, you fucking fedora faoogt.

>>3348411
>t. materialist

>>3348489
You know when we say "back to /pol/" it's not supposed to imply that leftypol is welcome instead.

>>3346966
Not an arguement

>>3346961
God is not an axiom.
Even if God was, it doesn't exclude the existence of other axioms.
Also, and "axiom" is just a human word, it does not conform with reality, it only describes it.
He's basing his philosophy on a human convention, not a reality.
Even if you ignore that he doesn't seem to comprehend that just because he believes his God is an axiom doesn't make it true, as I already said.

>>3348271
Bad reddit biology is, sure.

>>3348411
>observations
Why are these valid?
>logic
Why is this valid?
>mathematics
Why is this valid?
>precise prediction
Nonexistent
>pragmatism
How is this valid?
Back to r*ddit, please.

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>>3346961

Math is not self-evident, but it requires you to establish truths.

/thread

>>3348654

But what does that have to do with God? Even if yes, belief in God is an axiom, that doesn't mean that you have to accept it just because you accept other axioms.

>>3348709
They are valid because they describe what happens, dipshit. You actually don't need an axiom beyond "this observation is practical"

These types of arguments for god are only made by people who are very far up their own ass

>>3348720
>it happens becuz i sed so
>You actually don't need an axiom beyond "this observation is practical"
Why? becuz u sed so?
Do you even know what 'valid' means in epistemology?

>>3348715
Because "god" is just a fancy word for an unmoved mover, something that can have an effect without a cause, thus the mother of all axioms. Your understanding of philosophy and religion is beyond childish. Nobody is talking about "the bearded man in the sky" and certainly not Peterson. We're talking in some very abstract terms here. Why don't you actually try to understand the position you claim to oppose instead of just projecting shit?

>>3348730
1+1 is meaningless unless it has practical value
I don't have to prove "why" its true, I only have to observe that it helps me

>>3348346
Nothing in materialism requires math to prove itself you fucking brainlet. Unironically kill yourself

>>3348767
so this is the power of reddit epistemology
It doesn't 'help' you, you're memeing yourself.

>>3348768
But that is literally the only lag materialism stands on "dude, your brain is just chemistry, lmao". With math unable to be able to prove itself, chemistry is not an objective description of reality, but rather a pragmatic approximation and thus useless for debunking the concept of the "soul", free will and so on an so forth. Materialism is predicate on the absolute truth of scientific fact, all of which is predicated on mathematics, which is however proven to be incomplete for all eternity.

>>3348773
by "help" i mean observable
by the definition of axiom, no axiom exists whatsoever
reductio ad absurdum is apparently your method of epistemology

>>3348786
>observable
Observation is invalid you stupid rationalist.

>>3348782
"dude we have no evidence but you have no way to prove us wrong so we're right"

>>3348791
and this is why noone takes you seriously

>>3348349
I don't carry pepe cards

>>3348796
Why would truth be democratic or dependent on something as petty as social image?

>>3348792
Evidence doesn't exist, it's a meme made up by rationalists to justify their cancer epistemology.

>>3348782
Most materialists are nonreductive physicalists, get with the times, brainlet.

>With math unable to prove itself, chemistry is not an objective description of reality

No a posteriori knowledge can "prove itself", you dumb cuck. By your logic we should get rid of it entirely.

>>3348801
Why would you make assumptions based on no evidence whatsoever?Why is the basis of your argument the fact that you and you alone get to set the parameters of what is a valid argument?

>>3348804
Now I know you're memeing

>>3348815
Yes, all STEMtrash should be sent to the ovens
>>3348816
>argument
>fact
Go back to r*ddit with your cancer epistemology
>>3348821
>anybody who disagrees with me is just le meme because im a r*dditor that only cares about le social image

>>3348757
In western philosophy, "God" refers specifically to the god of classical theism, unless stated otherwise. It doesn't refer to a nondescript prime mover, you illiterate cuckold.

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>>3348792
>"you are just a biological machine, because math, everything is deterministic, newtonian physics is everything"
>turns out hard determinism is bullshit and math is not able to prove itself right, thus invalidating your entire premise
>"YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE, SO I STILL WIN"

I don't have evidence to support the existence of free will, but I have hard proof that the initial argument for materialism is horseshit. That doesn't prove me right, but it does prove materialism wrong. Step aside.

>No a posteriori knowledge can "prove itself", you dumb cuck. By your logic we should get rid of it entirely.
So why do you treat it as if it could? If you admit that math can't prove itself you basically agree that it is just pragmatic and not an objective description of reality, but rather a "good enough" approximation.

>>3348831
Idiot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover

>>3348825
>Yes, all STEMtrash should be sent to the ovens

You gave up on trying to argue and started some low effort trolling. Your epistemology is absolute trash that virtually no philosopher would ever take seriously.

Dont't breed, the world doesn't need more brainlets.

>>3348838
Fucking cuckold brainlet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_theism

>>3348856
But when Peterson (or Jung, rather) talks about God, they are talking about the archetypal unmoved mover, you fucking faggot. That's why he is talking about Gödel. Peterson doesn't give a shit about classical theism. Also Aristotle and Aquinas were absolutely talking about an unmoved mover. Moron. You are either a fedora tipper or some sort of fundamentalist if this abstract notion of "god" triggers you so hard.

>>3348757
>Because "god" is just a fancy word for an unmoved mover, something that can have an effect without a cause

Which is a concept I can't accept because it is something I both disagree with and have no evidence towards it. If I believe in this then I might as well believe in Solipsism, because at least that I can point to my own mind as proof that I'm real and everything else is possibly something I created.

>>3346961
This statement relies on people not knowing what axiom means.

More quasi intellectual gibberish meant to intimidate people into belief. God has been dead for over a century now, let him go.

>>3348838
Math doesn't need to prove itself in order for it to provide justified true belief (i.e. knowledge). By your logic, axioms are the only type of knowledge that exists.

>>3348757
>something that can have an effect without a cause
God is King Crimson?

>>3348875
If Peterson doesn't believe "God" is all-knowing, all-good and all-powerful, he is not a Christian, period. It seems basic theology is too hard for a brainlet.

>>3348429
>comfy
>endless miles of houses that look just the same.
>economically dependent on the city for everything.

>>3348876
Do you deny the necessity of an unmoved mover? Do you buy into infinite regress?

>>3348880
>t. brainlet who doesn't even understand what Peterson means by "god"

>>3348883
> By your logic, axioms are the only type of knowledge that exists.
Yes, you fucking retard. You absolutely need axioms. Without them nothing is true. Knowledge is only as correct as the predicates it is based on, and if they happen to be false our entire system collapses, thus we need to accept some axioms. Without them nothing can exist or function. That it itself an axiom.

>>3348905
He is a christian in the same way that Jung was a christian. Fuck off, you fundamentalist faggot.

>>3348916
I never said you don't need axioms you subhuman brainlet. Do you have trouble reading?

>>3348932
>By your logic, axioms are the only type of knowledge that exists.
That's what you said.

>>3348916
>Do you deny the necessity of an unmoved mover?

Yes.

>Do you buy into infinite regress?

I don't buy into anything philosophical because I think it's all theories made up by people with too much time on their hands and too little real-world problems. I have more important things to do with my life than ponder my existence.

why is faith in god considered an axiom?

>>3348937
Okay, you smart ass sissy faggot. No unmoved mover, no infinite regress. Why does anything exist at all then?

>>3348938
"God" is the axiom, faggot.

>>3348936
Axioms ARE knowledge, but not the only type of knowledge. Are you stupid or something?

"It's not raining where I live" is not an axiom, yet it is knowledge. Are you epistemologically illiterate or something?

>>3348916
>Jung
>Christian

Lmao

>>3348943
>"It's not raining where I live" is not an axiom, yet it is knowledge.
But that knowledge is itself predicated on axioms, that's my entire point.

>>3348941
>Okay, you smart ass sissy faggot. No unmoved mover, no infinite regress. Why does anything exist at all then?

I don't know and frankly I don't care. "How does this benefit me" is the question I ask in life.

>>3348959
It benefits you by giving you a hunch that there is more to life than materialism, which is a really good argument against killing yourself or simply giving up on life because "nothing matters bro".

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>>3346961
As long as "god" remains a purely unobserved metaphysical human-produced concept, everything non-physical referring to its existence can be discarted on the spot. Same goes for mathematics not describing natural phenomenons such as infinite sets and imaginary numbers.

>>3348846
>arguing is good becuz reddit sed it
I have philosophy published btw
>Take seriously
Oh look, more social image-love from the redditor.
I already have a daughter, incel.
>>3348937
>real-world
Fuck off back to /r/eddit

>>3348956
>But that knowledge is itself predicated on axioms

Yes, but:
-It is not in itself an axiom
-It cannot prove itself

Therefore, it is possible for propositions that cannot prove themselves to be knowledge, ergo you're wrong.

>>3348970

There is nothing more, which is exactly why to make the life you have matter. The fact that life is utterly meaningless in the grand scheme on a macro scale does not mean that you can't still do things that impact others on a micro level.

>>3348982
Hello rêddit

>>3348986
>I am 16 and very smart, sam harris has shown me the way

>>3348984
>Therefore, it is possible for propositions that cannot prove themselves to be knowledge
But that knowledge is only true if the axioms it is based on are also true. Thus, we can ever know if our knowledge is correct or not.

>>3348982
>Fuck off back to /r/eddit

I don't go to reddit, I can't stand indentation-based posting, it triggers my autism because I need uniformity in post alignment.

>>3348996

I'm 31, but what does philosophy matter? It's not going to pay the mortgage or stop wars or fix the economy. This is why I've always ignored the humanities section of this board, it's worthless to me.

>>3349009
>It's not going to pay the mortgage or stop wars or fix the economy. This is why I've always ignored the humanities section of this board, it's worthless to me.
And you're the one calling other people "brainlets". LMAO. Literal anti-intellectual. Why are you even in a Peterson thread if you care so little?

>>3348996
>But that knowledge is only true if the axioms it is based on are also true.

So? How does this support your tacit claim that "Math cannot prove itself therefore it doesn't provide knowledge"?

>>3349023
I literally never said that, you fag.

>>3349017

I wasn't the one calling people brainlets. And all the chalkboard musings in the world isn't making for good governance. If anything it does the opposite since it gave us people like Marx.

>>3349028
If math can provide knowledge, then chemistry can be an objective description of reality, then materialism is undaunted, you cuck.

>>3349067
practical knowledge != objective description of reality, you absolute moron.

>>3348825
you're memeing specifically to make your social image to be repulsive and thus be a "troll"
what a sad sad man you are
and you're bad at arguing and logic too

>>3349074
Knowledge = justified true belief

True = in accordance with reality

Eat a cock

>>3348916
you're gonna need to define "truth" because as far as I can tell, most things are "true" without axioms
you're making too many assumptions in order to make your argument, which is quite contrary to the basis of your argument

>>3348875
>Jung
>talking about God in a meaningful metaphysical sense
Just call yourself a Neo-Platonist, don't need to be so edgy about it

>>3349009
You're a redditor
You aren't , you're a child.
>pay the mortgage
Autist
>stop wars
War is the cause of you people
>fix the economy
The economy must be torn down.
Face it, you're a p-zombie.
>>3349029
>karl tural marcs is bad becuz i sed so

>>3349083
>logic is good becuz reddit sed it
HERES LE REDDIT GOLD STRANGER SLAY KWEEN SLAY YAAAAAAAS

>>3349103
>"meaningful" and "metaphysical" in the same sentence
&Humanities was a mistake

>>3349138
>metaphysics isn't meaningful because reddit sed it
YAAAAAAAAAAAS SLAY KWEEN THATS SOME WHITE MAN SHIT

>>3349131
>unironically being a tankie

>>3349150
>p-zombie thinks that anybody that doesn't accept vapid noncriticisms is a 'tankie'
Back to /pol/

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>>3349131
>calls others children and redditors
>is clearly /leftypol/

>>3349157
>HAHAHA ANYBODY WHO DOESNT AGREE WITH ME IS LE GOMMUNIST XDDDD SONIG XDDD YAAAAS KWEEN SLAY

>>3349164
>saying the economy must be torn down
>doesn't think Marx caused more damage than he helped others
>not a communist
Wew lad, I can't fight that

>>3348916
>He is a christian in the same way that Jung was a christian. Fuck off, you fundamentalist faggot.
Bitch please, Peterson is no [spoiler] gnostic [/spoiler]

Why are some people too stupid to understand Peterson?

I feel sorry for cucks, I really do

>>3349213
He's just a college professor, anon. He's worth less to society than a fucking plumber.

>>3349205
>spoilers
I just realized there's a high correlation between the amount of /tv/ posters and the amount of brainlet posts.

>>3349147
>metaphysics isn't meaningful
Correct
>muh redditz ur a leftie praize jeebus
Whatever.

>>3349214
Oh look the left has no arguments again

Cringe.

>>3349238
The left are the ones who care about universities instead of learning practical skills.

>>3348757
Why does it matter for the belief in truth if there's an original mover? What reasons are there to assume they care about us or what is considered truth or falsehood?

>>3346961
He's right. I guess I should convert to Islam and beat my wife for letting another man see her hair.

>>3349167
gommunism still demands an economy you illiterate cunt
>caused more damage
>helped
Fuck off, burgerfat
>muh utility
>>3349217
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS SLAY KWEEN WHITE BOY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

wtf is this yas queen shit

>>3348489
leftypol confirmed as nigger lover, as usual.

>>3349243
as long as the universities continue preaching what leftist approve, that is.
If not universities are just the centers of reactionary propaganda.

>>3346961
Every time I see this tweet it gets more retarded.

>>3346961

Presuppositionalism is Christianity in full retreat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUNaCD2HObo

>>3348346
>scientists don't know anything u guise
while posting from a machine that cointains all the world's knowledge and can communicate with any other machine by bouncing invisible waves off of satellites

>>3348916
yes i deny the necessity of an unmoved mover. there is absolutely a viable scientific explanation for the beginning of the universe that requires no prime mover. the fact that you keep trying to describe it with childish human concepts shows how reductive and retarded your thinking is.

>>3349588
A mechanical mind makes for a mechanical universe when it's really full of personality.

You can proffer an axiom without god. Here, I'll do it right now: "being".

omg Peterson btfo!

>>3346966
Poltard Have The culture of a middleschooler

>>3346961
How can Godel prove that proof is impossible?
Isn't this a contradiction?

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Peterson has a 150+ IQ and has taught at prestigious universities around the world

I HIGHLY doubt someone here can disprove his conclusions

>>3346966
murrica

I think therefore I am , i.e. I am definitely experiencing something whatever form or structure I may be I can definitely say that I'm experiencing something and so exist in at least that respect

is definitely provable to be true because the only axioms involved are themselves shown to be true by verifiable experience, so aren't axioms at all

>>3349944
"being" isn't an axiom. it isn't even an intelligible statement

an example of an actual axiom would be "A = A"

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I have no idea what he's talking about, I just like history.

>>3350110
Its impossible to disprove it becuse its impossible to disprove or prove anything.

Presupposing thereby that truth is needed. Nice goalposting Peterson. Truth isnt necessary. There is no inherent truth that would set arbitrary premises below "truth". What you need is a coherent system to live in. Which system is irrelevant. Todays problems do not stem from relativism but from the fact that nobody agrees on arbitrary premises, which you very much have to do.

>>3347006
I can prove you're a faggot by dingling a dildo in front of you and seeing you shove it up your ass.

Brainlet here
What is the guy in pic saying?

>>3350725
"Checkmate, atheists"

>>3347039
they deify something else

buddhism doesn't reject gods

>>3350295
i wouldn't mind a free dildo t b h

>>3348349
I do actually. I lift, run, and have good genes so my jawline is strong as fuck.

You're making excuses for your disgusting flabby body and hiding behind the screen where you know I can't give you a pink belly like the fuckin nerd you are.

>>3350110
>muh authority
Back to /r/eddit

>>3350130
Wrong. Invalid statements galore.
>the only axioms...
Wrong you stupid cunt, you presuppose a whole order and logic. Normative little twerp.

I wouldn't say faith in God, but just faith

>>3350841
Aimless faith is not faith at all, it is foolishness.
Faith that the tiger won't eat you? Faith that the fire won't burn you? Faith that the ocean won't drown you?

>>3350851
no such thing as aimless faith

>>3350870
Yes there is. Stop being suicidal.

>>3350882
nope.

your examples are shit, like your "opinion"

>>3346966
Mostly poltards who never had a father figure. Also we do live in crazy, degenerate times, so I can see how this brainlet can appeal to angry/disenfranchised youth.

I agree with most of his psychological stuff and I respect the man, but this is clearly wrong. Even if you agree that "proof is impossible without an axiom", nothing forces that axiom to be god. Literally anything would suffice (eg. cogito ergo sum).
I think there is no real objective truth, since there is no such thing as truly objective. You can never 100% rely on your senses.
That being said, I dont think Peterson would define "god" in the same way that most people would. More like the underlying structures and laws of the universe than an omnipotent being.

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>>3350092
>How can Godel prove that proof is impossible?
He didn't.
>Isn't this a contradiction?
Yes. What Godel actually proved was that for any sufficiently expressive and consistent axiomatic system of arithmetic there will be statements about natural numbers that are both true and not provable within said system. He did this by encoding self-referential statements using a coding method that exploited the fact numbers have unique prime number factorizations so you can map a bunch of basic arithmetic symbols to numbers and get larger single number values for strings of these symbols with the individual components of the larger numbers being something you can get back to through the prime factors. And by doing this he was able to make encoded statements that amounted to "This statement isn't provable within System A." And so System A can't prove that statement true because if it could then the statement would no longer be true. Yet the statement is true despite being unprovable in that particular system since you could make a System B that is able to prove it.
Philosophy brainlets gloss over all this though and jump straight to the not at all correct interpretation of "math is wrong lol you can't know nuffin!"

>>3347006
Can you prove that statement objectively, or are you just setting up a contradiction to your own axioms?

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>>3348797
>>3350806
Believe what you want, but you are just as pathetic as your average NEETSoc

>>3348489
This is a pathetic excuse for bait

> look up in the sky
> no god found

Why can't social """science""" fags into being smart? Did they not have STEM classes when you grew up?

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>>3346961

In the First Order Logical Language of Arithmetic, there are four desirable properties we would like for our Theory of Arithmetic,

1) We would like it to be consistent.
2) We would like it be complete
3) We would like it to contain Peano Arithmetic
4) We would like it to recursively enumerable

What Godel's Incompleteness Theorem ultimately says is simply that there is no theory in this language that has all four of these properties. However, it is possible to show there are theories with any three.

>>3350110
why he looks like a fag

>>3353993
>looks like

don't know why he pulls the faith in god part in there, it's like saying "pelicans seem to enjoy flying, but to be sure of what enjoyment is we first need to buy the new ford fiesta."

>>3354052
Oh wait I know he's scared shitless of death cause he knows he wasted the majority of his life being a hillbilly alcoholic as he freely admitted on his channel. Now he's trying to justify his waste of time by convincing himself god is related to science which will grand him entire life after death and little jordan didn't waste so much time after all applause

>>3346961
I find it highly ironic that the fedora tippers who rally behind peterson rally behind a person of faith, the exact same kind of person they vouched to destroy just a few years ago

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>>3348797
>>3350806
>>3348342