What does this flag mean to you?

slavery and butthurt losers

Slavery, bigotry and intolerance.

>>3333288
Freedom, individual liberty, heritage, anti authoritarianism

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>>3333288
Southern heritage.

>>3333389
>Freedom
>individual liberty
>anti authoritarianism

>>3333288
The battle flag for Robert E Lee, which is often confused as the flag of the Confederate States of America. Also rednecks, retards, and racism.

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>>3333402
Rude.

>>3333402
Woops, it's actually the Virginia battle flag. Either way anyone that says it means heritage needs to ge their head out of their ass, this is from a fucking South Carolinian telling you none of these niggas are even alive, please stop.

>>3333389
>Freedom, individual liberty, heritage, anti authoritarianism
>Slavery is enshrined in the Confederate constitution and prohibiting slavery is unconstitutional

>>3333423
It's heritage. What other symbol represents the southern people better?

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>>3333423
>Says it's not about heritage
>Doesn't know about vexillology
Bless your heart.

>>3333433
>slavery meme


Most southerners didn't own slaves

>>3333288
losers

>>3333458
They were still fighting for the right to own them

>>3333458
>Confederate states are prohibited from becoming free states
>This is for states' rights
This is what dixiebooes actually believe.

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>>3333464
And sore about it too.

>>3333458
But they all aspired to own slaves.

>>3333489
cmon man that is an over generalization

>>3333458
What's your point? Supporting a state which encourages slavery is a support of freedom and individualism, since you do not personally own slaves?

KFC, Steamboats, interracial couples, alcoholism, incest.

>>3333288
what retards think the Confederacy's national flag is

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A target.

>owning black people
>a bad idea

it's a flag, who cares?

>>3333519
>Import millions of blacks to be farm equipment
>This is a good idea

>>3333465
>>3333466
>>3333489
They were fighting for their homeland. For sovereignty. For honor. They were regular people like me or you.also keep in mind "Slavery" in the south wasn't all that bad. "Slaves" were given work, shelter and food. Often living like kings compared to their African cousins across the Atlantic.

The confederates were far more American than the union. Truly living up to the values of our founding fathers.

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>>3333530
>"Slavery" in the south wasn't all that bad. "Slaves" were given work, shelter and food.

>>3333530
They were fighting for slavery and that makes them evil. Pure evil.

>>3333530
You forget fighting for the right to own slaves.

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>>3333542
Better off than being a castrated Ottoman slave; evaluating things from within their historical context is important.

>>3333530

>People being used by the government for a rotten cause somehow abstracts from the cause.

States and those in positions of power always appeal to things like the homeland, honor, sovereignty, etc... Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, every tin pot despot and dictator that has ever existed regardless of their evil.

The Soviet Conscript, Wehrmacht Soldier, Khmer Rouge guerilla, etc... all fought for various reasons and all had the same humanity as a Confederate (or Union) soldier. Does this somehow make any of their causes more or less acceptable?

No, its totally superfluous.

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>>3333530
>They were fighting for their homeland. For sovereignty. For honor.
no
>also keep in mind "Slavery" in the south wasn't all that bad. "Slaves" were given work, shelter and food. Often living like kings compared to their African cousins across the Atlantic.
i think getting beaten if you dont work hard enough and not having any control over your life is pretty shitty
>The confederates were far more American than the union. Truly living up to the values of our founding fathers.
by destroying the country the founders worked so hard to build? the constitution over the articles of confederation is proof that the founders believed in a united country, and the eventual ban on slave importation in the constitution is proof they were no big fans of slavery either

>>3333519
>wanting another mouth to feed and body to house that isn't related to you

Even for free labor, no thanks.

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>>3333530

>>3333288
Nothing

>>3333530
>this is what dixiefags actually believe

>>3333547
I can't take you seriously when you use subjective words like "evil" to justify genocide against your countrymen. If anything, unionists seem like the "evil" ones.

>>3333560
Except, the confederates weren't the aggressors. They thought they were free to leave. But lincoln and his mafia couldn't let that happen.

>>3333562
By leaving a government that didn't represent them.

>>3333613

>Fire on Fort Sumter
>Use violence against Western Texas / Eastern Appalachia which were pro-Union to get them to secede.
>Violates the neutrality of Kentucky, forcing it into the Union's arms from its previous neutrality.
>Attempts an armed coup in Missouri and fails.

CONFEDERACY DINDU NUFFIN

>>3333437
Krystal's

>>3333613
>By leaving a government that didn't represent them.
there's more to the american government than just the presidency
do you think it would be ok for the democratic states today to secede because they lost an election?

>>3333433
Sometimes symbols take on meanings other than what they were originally intended for

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>>3333657
>calexit

>>3333657
i don't
can you address my argument without trying to make me into a strawman?

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Heres the thing. The collective identity of the lost cause South is a real thing, despite the lost cause itself being complete horseshit.

Its both a symbol of white supremasism AND what amounts to widespread Dukes of Hazard fanboyism.

I'm liberal enough to be called a cuck on /pol/ but I've lived in the south, the lost cause itself has taken on a cultural presence that is genuinely felt to be true and is true for many of the people growing up there within the past 30 years.

I fucking hate legitimate dixieboos, but the "heritage" arguement isn't wrong.

>>3333653
Hide your participation trophies, the union don't want to see them around you pleb.

>>3333555
wait....are you trying to tell me that there are people other than white Europeans that have done bad things?

>>3333651
>do you think it would be ok for the democratic states today to secede because they lost an election?

Yes. Why is this an issue?

>>3333686
taking your ball and going home because you lost a game is not a winning attitude

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>>3333682
...[spoiler]maybe[/spoiler]

Rock music made by rednecks

>>3333693
>self determination and freedom of association is bad

Hmmm. i bet you think diversity is a strength

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>>3333700
>>3333700
The best kind baby!
Also checked.

>>3333716
here's your (You) for effort

>>3333673
I completely agree. People grow up around those symbols without having any idea what they actually meant....somewhere along the way it takes on a different meaning. I always thought of it as just a symbol for the south. Although it most definitely can be used as a symbol for white supremacism

>>3333706
>self determination and freedom of association
nice spooks you have there, it would be a shame if something happened to them

>>3333753
(You) tried

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Ok guys, Opinion from Russia, I'm sorry for bad English.
The flag itself - the cross of St. Andrew, a sign to which the elites give messages to each other, Formally, it means the will to sacrifice death, And we love Masons very much.

Once I asked my history teacher: what would happen if the settlers did not equate the Indians with plague blankets? "Instead of the United States, Venezuela would have been now," he replied.

So, if in the civil war would have defeated the Confederates, then instead of the USA, now there would be black Argentina, a country based on the resource economy. Only instead of exporting beef, you exported cotton or tobacco, Turn a person who lives under such a regime is not something that should be sought.

The resource economy of the southern states is the main customer of the transfer of Negroes to the United States, And a large number of blacks you can say thank you is a confederate.

History

>>3333728
Ive always felt liberals need to understand the South if they're going to fix anything.

There so much shit my own party has screwed the pooch on.

>Why hasn't privilege been phrased as an argument of Christian humility?

some of his stuff was okay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0qDKQeu71o

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>>3333530
>They fought for a bunch of spooks fed to them by their leaders, also slavery isn't that bad because there are situations that are imaginably worse

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>>3333497
You're right. Most of them were just drafted to protect the class interests of slave owners.

Still, very many aspired to own their own slaves. It is as LBJ said 100 years later:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

>>3333836
(((Bremmer)))

>>3333542
It really wasn't that bad. The life expectancy for blacks increased more than ever under slavery and declined after abolition. In fact, many slaves died of starvation not long after being freed from slavery.
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2012/10/15/slavery-myths-life-expectancy/comment-page-1/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/16/slavery-starvation-civil-war
Slaves never had to beg for food, shelter, work, etc. It was all provided for them free of charge unlike free laborers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fitzhugh
This guy argued for no more race based slavery, but more slavery of all lesser people even whites who were not mature enough to be free. Slavery is supported by the Bible, the Confederacy's motto was Deo Vindice (God will vindicate) and the Confederate Constitution is written to be ordained by God. Aside from slavery, the Confederate Constitution has a lot of great ideas about government and fiscal policy that should be considered today, albeit in historical context were peripheral to slavery. Opposition to protective tariffs was rooted in slavery, as John Calhoun admitted after the Nullification Crisis, federally funded internal improvements were also prohibited as they industrialized the North away from slavery.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=66323
Term-limited and the ability of the POTUS to remove civil servants started with the Confederacy and have made their way in the US. The Confederacy also required all federal spending to be approved by Congress in specific dollar amounts and all bills had to remain on one topic, no riders or earmarks/pork barrel allowed. Sure, it was historically to thoroughly protect slavery, but those ideas on their merit are fundamentally good ideas without slavery, which is why some of them (and more of them should) have been incorporated into US policy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_Constitution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

>>3333831
>They fought for a bunch of spooks
but the north was the one fighting for the niggers.

>>3333836
>that pic
Lmoa white wimmin baka

>>3333863
My favorite part is some numale jew with glasses making fun of the boy just because he's fat.

>>3333857
No, the North was fighting to keep the union together regardless of slavery, which was abolished when they realized keeping the union with slavery was utterly hopeless. The North just before the war had the Crittenden Compromise and Corwin Amendment to keep the South in the union with slavery in tact. They were bending the knee on the whole slavery issue but the secessionists had their minds made up and rejected the Crittenden Compromise because it would have restored the Missouri Compromise which limited slavery's expansion and rejected the Corwin Amendment as it only protected slavery where it existed. Read up on "Slave Power".

>>3333288
A flag for a dead confederacy? IDK I don't have strong feelings about it like most people.

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>>3333836
Why should white people hate own race to enrich niggers?

why do you hate the white race?

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>>3333857
The North didn't give a fuck about niggers, it fought to preserve the country the southern retards were trying to break apart.
>Gentlemen, Niggers and cotton caused this war, and I wish them both in Hell.
- William T. Sherman

>>3333288
A silly flag that was invented in the 1960s as a reaction to the US civil rights movement. It's not even a flag the Confederates ever used.

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>>3333875

>>3333894
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#Battle_flag

>>3333893
>“See our present condition—the country engaged in war! Our White men cutting one another’s throats! And then consider what we know to be the truth. But for your race among us there could not be war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or another. “Why should the people of your race be colonized, and where? Why should they leave this country? This is, perhaps, the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffer very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffer from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this be admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated. It is better for both, therefore, to be separated.”

— Spoken at the White House to a group of black community leaders, August 14th, 1862, from COLLECTED WORKS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN, Vol 5, page 371.

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>>3333875
Yet the war did not happen because of the Negroes, but because of the types of economy

>>3333921
Based. Why didn't Lincoln ship them all to Liberia?

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>>3333929
This is a fantastic picture. What is it of? Where is it from?

>>3333912
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#Battle_flag

That essentially backs what I said, I wasn't disputing it was a component of some flags.

Did you seriously ever think that it was the flag of the Confederates?

>>3333929
The Beardian hypothesis was discredited a long time ago, even Charles Beard retracted his belief in it. The economies of the North and South were complimentary, the textile industry and international commerce as a whole depended on Southern cotton. Opposition to slavery was a combination of morals regarding slavery, the desire for more job opportunities for whites in the West, and the purported slave power conspiracy to spread slavery all over the country when Northern whites didn't want blacks anywhere near them. The competing economies argument isn't widely accepted anymore. The closest thing to an economics basis is how King Cotton gave the South the belief they could be their own separate country (based around slavery).

>>3333875
It seems the republicans didn't like it either.

>>3333951
I took them from here.
http://fototelegraf.ru/42277-150-letie-grazhdanskoj-vojny-v-ssha.html

>>3333288
Subhuman WE WUZZers

>>3333934
Cause he got assassinated and Andrew Johnson was also lenient towards the South as he was a Southerner himself and knew they needed nigger labor during Reconstruction as they didn't' have nearly as many whites as the North and the Southern cash crop economy was vital to the national economy. The Radical Republicans didn't even think Lincoln would go far enough with Reconstruction so during the 1864 election they formed their own Radical Democracy ticket but dropped it. The Crop Lien system developed in the South after the war to keep niggers in perpetual debt slavery and they also used selective law enforcement against niggers to use them in a convict leasing system where they could be leased to private parties for labor (such as picking cotton). The 13th amendment exempts slavery as punishment for a crime.

>>3333972
>selective law enforcement against niggers
Shouldn't have raped that white bitch.

>>3333962
Yep, both Northern Republicans and Southern Democrats opposed the Crittenden Compromise even though logic would say it was the perfect solution. It basically would have restored the Missouri Compromise and make it constitutional which is wasn't originally and was ruled unconstitutional with the Dred Scott decision in 1857. It was already repealed with the Kansas-Nebraska Act in 1854 as per a rider to gain as much support as possible since the bill's primary purpose just railroad shilling. The Dred Scott case made it so Congress couldn't just put it back in place and both abolitionist Northerners and Slavocrats in the South didn't want to go back to it anyway.

>>3333958
>purported slave power conspiracy to spread slavery all over the country when Northern whites didn't want blacks anywhere near them
This. The Northerners were terrified of niggers and the Southerners wanted to make as many slave states as possible. Ironically, niggers spread all over the country in the 20th century anyway even without slavery.

>>3333706
>wahh the feds aren't doing what my state likes, let's secede
>wahh the state isn't doing what my county likes, lets secede
>wahh the county isn't doing what my town/village/district likes, lets secede
>wahh I didn't get my own way, I declare my homestead a sovereign nation

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>>3333893
I would not trust a person wearing a name-Tecumseh

Nothing

>>3333880
You probably get kind of a boner reading this, don't you?

>>3333288
Originally it was a battle flag for the south. Over time it's changed to become a symbol of southern pride. Wealthy white northerners don't understand its cultural relevence. It's ethnocentric to demonize southern people for using that flag.

>>3334129
Because you're some Russian faggot. Tecumseh was an Indian warrior leader from Ohio where Bill Sherman was from, and he was named in his honor.

>>3333880

Wow that's depressing if it wasn't a troll post by someone from here.

>>3333869
i think its a combination of things m8

>>3333880
>wonderful, virile goddess
Cunt slaves should hang

>>3333547
The Patriots fought in the side of slavery during the revolution

>>3333673
Th lost cause is no different than the Muh freedom myth that most Americans believe about the founders.

Rebel flag, the south

>>3333458
Yeah, only the ones who could afford to. Only the damn near entire ruling upper class. Tragic that the others had to die for them, isn't it?

>>3333288
Dukes of Hazzard
t. non-burger

>>3333519
Shit man, even from your perspective, look how it turned out.

>>3333742
>le spooks xd
Back to ręddit

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Let's get to the point, do you accept slavery or did the Confederacy have to die? Anything else is a pathetic little dance.

>>3334555
>wanting billy yank to free jamal so he could directly compete with you for wages

Poor southern whites had an economic interest in maintaining slavery. Them dying was no more tragic than some random irish immigrant being drafted and marched to his death by uncle sam. At least the southern army tended to be disproportionately middle and upperclass.

>>3334570
I don't think it is that simple because if the Confederacy had survived they most likely would have ended slavery eventually.

>>3334572
Ahahhahahhahahahsjajshfjdkahgsjajahahahhahahahaajajajajjajajaheuehueheuheueheueheuehehej

To be this young again

>>3334570
>Let's get to the point, do you accept slavery or did the United State have to die?

Remember the brits freed the slaves during the revolution and ended it in their colonies within a few decades.

>>3334572
My point was anti confederacy.

>>3334579
>no argument

ok

It makes me instantly think "Why do all the best flags go with the losers?" Because I like nazi aesthetics as well.
Honestly, I really wish the Union had some variation of the same scheme, because it's fucking tight. US flag is good, but it's so... underwhelming.

>>3334577
>eventually
that's cute
i'm sorry there's a fly in your soup, but so it is

>>3334582
your point was that the poor whites were dying for the rich when they obviously weren't and upholding the existing institutions was in their own best interests.

>>3334592
sort of? read what i was responding to if you haven't

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>>3334588
Dixie really did have some dope flags.

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>shoo kids, you're making this awkward

>>3333288
I used to be reminded of the struggle for the Union as a result of questions unanswered at the Constitutional Convention.

Now I just think of butthurt.

>>3334580
well, not die exactly, but it did fracture into an unbelievably bloody civil war, so there's that

>>3334580
besides doesn't that just reflect even worse on the south for persisting so fucking hard?

>>3334590
>The surest way to secure peace, is to show your ability to maintain your rights. The principles and position of the present administration of the United States the republican party present some puzzling questions. While it is a fixed principle with them never to allow the increase of a foot of slave territory, they seem to be equally determined not to part with an inch “of the accursed soil.” Notwithstanding their clamor against the institution, they seemed to be equally opposed to getting more, or letting go what they have got. They were ready to fight on the accession of Texas, and are equally ready to fight now on her secession. Why is this? How can this strange paradox be accounted for? There seems to be but one rational solution and that is, notwithstanding their professions of humanity, they are disinclined to give up the benefits they derive from slave labor. Their philanthropy yields to their interest. The idea of enforcing the laws, has but one object, and that is a collection of the taxes, raised by slave labor to swell the fund necessary to meet their heavy appropriations. The spoils is what they are after though they come from the labor of the slave.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
The South wanted to secede cause the North were cunts. Cash crops grown in the South were the backbone of American international commerce and Southerners were paying other countries' tariffs and supplying the Northern industries with cotton to function. The North didn't need trade like the South did and fought for tariffs that protected Northern industry and were pissed at the tariff of 1857 that allowed for affordable imports competing with domestically produced goods. They blamed the panic of 1857 on the new tariff but it was too soon to really say that was the reason. Yankees were just a bunch of profiteers that wanted the South to stay in the union for their own benefit. They were milking revenue they didn't create.

>>3334633
It persisted where it was too ingrained to end without upheavel i.e. Cuba, Brazil, US. Fuck even the union ended it only when it gave them the advantage. Before Sumter the Union was perfectly fine with enshrining it in the constitution.

The british were the same way, they were fighting the americans so they sought to free the slaves. The Americans obviously fought against this and reenslaved thousands north and south after the brits left.

>>3334463
haha n-no

>>3334646
>>3334647
you're not wrong, but it still just boils down to
>hey, they were cunts too
and regardless of that i still believe the confederacy had to be put down on account of slavery while acknowledging that's not what the north actually cared about or the only thing the south cared about

>>3333288
It means that we should have killed every person in the south after the war.
Traitors deserve nothing less.

Some Southern thing.

I don't equate it with racism or any other stupid notion like that.

>>3334681
t. nigger

>>3334665
The difference is that nobody has a problem with americans whitewashing their other sacred cows like Washington or Jefferson but when southerners do it to the confederates it's not allowed. I honestly think we'd get less "it had nothing to do with slavery muh states rights" autism if we just acknowledged that the confederates were terrible by modern standards but bravely fought for their states and it's ok for those states to honor them.

>>3334710
well said

>>3334710
The south had good reason to want to keep their slaves
The economy was built upon them.
The cotton gin had put a big dent in it, the trade itself was good.

Their whole way of life was actually going to crumble if they lost, and it did.

Im not sure the fascination with waving the flags nowadays though. Why cant history just be history?

>>3334724
i guess they shouldn't have put all their eggs in the human property basket

>>3334730
weirdly enough, one of their other arguments for secession was that it would allow them to diversify their industries. They couldn't compete with northern manufacturing just like northern manufacturing used to not be able to compete with british manufacturing prior to the tariffs.

>>3334724
>Im not sure the fascination with waving the flags nowadays though. Why cant history just be history?

It just entered pop culture as a symbol for the south over the decades. desu I never even remember it being controversial until the late 90's. The cheerleaders used to wave it during dallas cowboys games ffs.

>>3333852
>The life expectancy for blacks increased more than ever under slavery and declined after abolition.

It's universally recognized reintegrating slaves into American society was difficult. It's part of the reason Lincoln and countless others avoided the problem of emancipation. Like your own source says, freedom comes at a price.

>Slaves never had to beg for food, shelter, work, etc. It was all provided for them free of charge unlike free laborers.

It was provided for them because they had no fucking rights of their own. If you think some meager food and shelter is worth your freedom, your children's freedom, and your children's children's freedom, you're fucking high.

They weren't being done any favors and it's honestly disgusting you're defending slavery this way. We can have a conversation about slavery without reminiscing how much better off people were when they were legally fucking property. It's not an idea that needs to be entertained or worth being a devil's advocate for.

>This guy argued for no more race based slavery, but more slavery of all lesser people even whites who were not mature enough to be free.

So did Aristotle. Who qualifies as a "natural slave" will surely not overlap with the people doing the qualifying. This line of thinking is exactly as dangerous and volatile as eugenics, for the exact same reasons.

>>3333423
The battle flag of the Army of North Virginia isnt rectangular. The closest thing to that flag was the Confederate Naval jack which used a lighter shade of blue. That flag wasnt a thing outside of scattered units in the west

>>3333530
this is what retarded southerners will have you believe because they have nothing else to be proud of with their shit heritage

>>3334708
t. traitor

>>3334834
Blacks have no concept of freedom. Freedom is an Anglo Saxon invention

>>3334708
That would mean the north would have killed all the black people too you inbred faggot.

>>3333288
P A R T I C I P A T I O N
T R O P H Y

>>3334951
0/10
At least you tried.

>>3334966
NAme one black nation that has freedom and I'll name 10 more European ones. Blacks do better when they are under someone's boot.

>>3334992
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

>>3334951
This is weak bait. I'll indulge you anyway.

"Not valuing freedom means you are not entitled to it yourself." Show me some Anglo Saxon thinkers who agree with the statement in quotations, if that is the argument you are making.

Freedom being a basic right means everyone has that right whether they want it or not. We don't strip terrorists of their rights to a free trial because they wouldn't do the same for us.

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>>3333288

The South

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>>3333288
Classical Americana, Jeffersonian democracy, an eternal reminder that the public schools in this country are always going to be biased because people don't know what the fuck they are talking about when they make the Union out to be some sort of progressive utopia

>>3335068
t. butthurt southerner that cannot handle that history books teach the truth.

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>>3335087
>replies to weak bait on a dead ecuardarian llama herding forum
>calls others butthurt

>>3334878
The south has the only genuine american culture.

t. non-american

>>3335122
>felt the need to reply anyway

I hope you get what you truly want out of life, anon.

>>3335122
>>3335122
>Replies to a reply to a bait post on an alive saudi arabian camel dispersing public service announcement board.
>Calls the person responding butthurt for saying the person they were responding to is butthurt.
>Also a frogposter.
I can point out the obvious too..

>>3335130
you lost get over it pinkie

>>3333880
This is probably the upbringing of your average /polack/

>>3334533
Patriots fighting to uphold slavery were evil, yes.

>>3333288
people who were done in by their own civil servants. A lesson for everyone on how sometimes you don't win.

That the south will rise again

>>3333288
It's aestetichally superior to USAs flag in every way

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>>3333389
>Freedom

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>>3333530

>>3333389
>>3333392
>4 years of war out of almost 400 years of history
>heritage

Rebellion.

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It's a symbol of treachary. My issue with the Confederacy is nothing to do with Slavery. Slavery has existed in Ancient China and to the Ancient Greeks and Romans. And Slavery was practiced after the Europeans "Dutch, Swedes, British, French, American, Spanish, Portuguese, etc.," the Arab slavers continued enslaving black African slaves a practice started 1200 years before Western Europeans when the Arab trade of Africans began in the 8th century A.D. So Confederacy is not unique. And even if you argue the racism I don't care that it was a racist-state either.

I care that it was a breakaway state of the United States (our country), and threatened the stability of a nation that could have fallen under colonial control of France or Britain.
THAT'S WHY... I hate the Rebel-Flag!!!!!

>>3335139
>>3335143
I wasn't the guy who posted bait nor did I say I wasn't butthurt. We're all angsty autists here, don't pretend like you're any difference.

a looser flag

>>3333458
This is a non sequitur given that the CSA was much closer to an oligarchy where slave owners duped the constituency into keeping them in power with rhetoric of state's rights and faaling victim to centuries of naturalizing slave hierarchies.

>>3333288
The South

Anything else is a fucking Yank, non-American, or negro

>>3335953
>am leeaboo
>hate dixieboos
>think the flag should be taken down
>remove all statues except for Lee

Southern pride is legitimate and doesnt need to be taken away, but I think they should pick another confederate flag to fly. Maybe take the flag and reverse the colors or something.

Just for the fact that Lee would have wanted statues taken down means he deserves at least two.

>>3337085
Remove all statues except for ones of Lee and statues commemorating the veterans of the Civil War.

>>3335087
t. Butthurt Northerner too afraid to read books in the first place

>>3336692
>given that the CSA was much closer to an oligarchy
*Republic. If anyone is the Oligarchy that be the the Northern "shoot anyone demanding to not starve in the streets" Yanks. I'm sure Pinkertons were very progressive lol

>>3333288
Dukes of Hazard.

>>3333288
treason, slavery, surrender

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>>3337161
We should then remove the statues of Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, hell why don't we just blow up Mount Rushmore next? All I see are racist oppressors

>>3333288
The American South as well as a shitty attempt at rebellion.

>>3336269
>I hate people who fight for their own independence
>I'm an American
Pick one

>>3333377
Cuck

>>3337195
Why do Dixiepubs want to keep ALL of their participation trophies, and why are they incapable of making arguments outside of taking things to their most absurd conclusions?

>>3337205
Why do Ameriboos want to keep ALL of their participation trophies, and why are they incapable of making arguments outside of taking things to their most absurd conclusions? Your heroes we're the "great men" they were all fucking racists and oppressors if black people. Can you just not realize how offensive it is to some that you romantacize those kinds of people?

Much controversy agàinst this flag, but if you think about it, there's a fuck of difference between the north political view and the north in terms of slavery, just the way fo regulate the use of the blacks.

>>3337205
Here is an argument
>I'm not taking down symbols of the South because they were racist
>I don't want to commit damnatio memoriae where people believe that the Civil War was racism vs anti-racism and the reason we have monuments and commit our thought to history is more important than virtue signalling to black people

Just represent something for the vexilology.
good design and great color representing the relation between the south and the Brittons

Freedom

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My favourite T.V. show from childhood
>tfw it would never be allowed to air today

>>3333288
Personally, as a Northerner, I associate it more with Southern pride and heritage than racism, however far right extremist groups often like to use it in racist contexts. I don't think it should be banned, as that would violate free speech and it isn't offensive itself, but it shouldn't have any official governmental status, as the CSA surrendered over 150 years ago.

>>3333288
A failed, long dead rebellion of a mongrel celtic mudshit race against and industrialized, higher IQ, superior civilization.

It makes me think about my great great great Grandfather. All the misery and anguish he went through. 4 battles, all loses. Returning maimed to a home that no longer existed, and a son who was no longer living.

>>3333288
I'm a Southerner, born and raised. It's just one of those things I shake my head at and then get on with my day.

Very very few people actually believe in all that heritage stuff. There's a little merit to it, sure, but the vast majority of white Southerners are gripped by this twisted sort of contrarianism that compels them to thumb their nose at authority.

For example, I lived from when I was 6 until when I was 18 in East TN. People love the stars and bars there. Nine out of ten people there will tell you their ancestors were proud confederate patriots. The reality is that their ancestors were probably Union Bushwhackers or even enlisted in the damn Union Army. The eastern part of TN was so vehemently against secession that it seceded from the rest of the state in 1861- it was under military occupation by Confederate troops until 1863. And what do the great great grandchildren of anti CSA guerillas and members of the 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment do? Put a stars and bars bumper sticker on their truck because contemporary popular culture says the stars and bars is bad.

>>3337205
There's nothing absurd about it. Its not a slippery slope, its happening RIGHT NOW

>>3337205
There's already leftists pushing for removing Mount Rushmore and Teddy Roosevelt statues.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kkkby/lets-get-rid-of-mount-rushmore

>>3333288
>yfw Confederate flag is more continuous and connected with the Union Jack of the Brits then the true American flag

>>3337668
Just because they were against secession doesn't mean they hated being southerners, which is what the stars and bars represents in the modern context

>>3337862
It's a symbol of the Confederacy, that's the only objective fact before us. If you think it has broader meaning today that's your opinion.

>>3333288
butthurt nignogs

3/5

>>3333288
rednecks

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>>3334834
>They weren't being done any favors and it's honestly disgusting you're defending slavery this way.
>Dude wage slavery is better than actual slavery though
>At least with water slavery you don't have healthcare and have to live in the streets or live in cramped urban areas where cholera and measles is common.
>Plus your children can work your jobs too!
>Thank fuck for that
Compared to the lowest classes around the world, American slaves had it pretty good. It wasn't an easy life for anyone who was poor, desu. They were treated worse than cattle, which makes slaves (who were treated as cattle at least) a lot better off tbqh. House slaves especially.

>>3337996
>It's a symbol of the Confederacy
*The South

>>3338151
This is a dumb argument, and I can prove it's a dumb argument.

If being a slave was better than being a free man, people would choose to be slaves, and they wouldn't try to escape from slavery.

>>3338151
>Compared to the lowest classes around the world, American slaves had it pretty good. It wasn't an easy life for anyone who was poor, desu. They were treated worse than cattle, which makes slaves (who were treated as cattle at least) a lot better off tbqh. House slaves especially.

>this is what Cletus' actually believe

dude it was legal to torture, rape and kill your slaves, it was NOT legal to do that to anyone else, no matter how poor they were. And wage "slavery" IS better than actual slavery. The working poor had freedom of movement and could go somewhere else looking for work if they had the opportunity - slaves couldn't

>Plus your children can work your jobs too!

Cause if there's one thing every parent wants, its for their kids to work the exact same shitty jobs that they do and not to go do better things.

>>3338156
>people would choose to be slaves, and they wouldn't try to escape from slavery.
maybe they were just misinformed.

>>3333288
The Dukes Of Hazard

>>3338156
You do know how many freed slaves stayed on at the plantation, yes?

>>3338156
>Now I have in my orders appropriated the labor of negros as far as will benefit the army. To injure our enemy universal emancipation with the machinery to carry it into Effect would be of course effectual, but no means conclusive. Not one nigger in ten wants to run off -- There are 25,000 in 20 miles of Memphis -- all could escape & would receive protection here, but we have only about 2000 of whom full one half are hanging about caps as officers servants.
>William T. Sherman Memphis, Sept. 3, 1862

>>3338156
>people would choose to be slaves,
I guess you forgot about the failure of John Brown's "slave" revolt.
>>>3338289
>It's legal to torture, rape, and kill your slaves
Depended on the state. It was not legal in most of the South.
>The working poor had freedom of movement
>Yanks actually believe this
You couldn't even form a union without getting shot by Pinkertons.

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>>3338151
>American slaves had it pretty good.

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>>3338444
Hey you forgot the rest of the sentence
>Compared to the lowest classes around the world,

>>3338444
You know the overseer who carried that out was punished right? It was in no way a normal occurrence in slavery.

>>3333288
Racism, bigotry, hatred, Islamaphobia, and slavery.
Rural and Suburban retards fly them

>>3333288
mostly losers who are either edgelords or who have basically bought into the propaganda spread by various groups in the early 1900's-1920's, groups who attempted to cover up the fact the confederacy was incompetent at an executive/government level (essentially you had "state-level" governments arguing and bickering among themselves and being unable to agree on anything, nor submit to any kind of central authority even if it would've benefited their cause.)

they should've given up after the first year or two, as they were unable to capture Washington (and thus unable to draw a swift/decisive conclusion to the war). The Union meanwhile would be using it's vast industrial strength to blockade southern ports, equip and transport a far larger and better supplied army in the meantime.
>>3337460
I want to see a mustang called the sheridan.

>>3337668
it's worse when I see it in Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois, but it's pure contrarianism like you said.

>>3333288
A bunch of eternally assmad losers, forever REEEEEE'ing that they can't own people as property anymore unless they convert to Islam and move to Saudi Arabia.

They should accept that they got their traitorous redneck asses beat and get over it.

>>3333288
The best part of american history. mericans killing one another like the nigger savages they are. Cant wait for the second one.

>>3333288
Battle flag of the Confederate states of America. Obsolete circa 1865 C.E.

southern united states

sore losers

>>3333437
Antebellum architecture?

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Battle flag of general lee, objectively a very brave and noble man.

>>3333673
So are you saying that since the Lost Cause argument has ingrained itself so well in the heritage of the south, that it is now ok to consider the lost cause approach as a legitimate argument to justifying Southern "heritage"? That seems like a fallacy in itself since the entire basis of the lost cause argument relies on a facade taken up by the south in the final months of the war in order to make the confederacy war effort appear like a fight solely for states' rights. Correct me if I'm wrong but the lost cause approach also tries to make the North appear at fault for making the war about slavery when the South really only cared about states' rights, as said above.

So here we have the South at first proudly fighting for slavery, and then towards the ends of the war retracting their claims and going "no no, we only wanted states rights. Its the NORTH that wants to make it SEEM like we're fighting for slavery while we really just want to uphold the Constitution."

>>3339349
Not even the best general in his own Army

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>>3339479
"""""'revisionism"""""" is just an anti-dialogical buzzword for the plebians. Saying that the South fought Jeffersonian ideals, southern independence, AND slavery is not revisionism, it is a fact. Blaming the North for the war is also not a revisionist statement it is a fact that they mishandled the secession leading to a war that could've been avoided.The call for states rights was something present at the beginning of the war, hell it was cited in the declarations of secession.

>>3333288
It's sometimes used in Croatia by football fans in the Southern region of the country. I guess it's the "South against the North" dichotomy connection along with our South being less industrialised, more conservative, right-wing and religious. It's also sometimes seen as simply being a symbol of a rebellious spirit.

>>3333852
>In fact, many slaves died of starvation not long after being freed from slavery.

Imagine being a slaver owner before the Civil War. You probably don't respect your slaves at all, after all you see them as property and don't pay them anyways. You see their value in their labor and nothing else. To ensure that this labor will keep flowing so that you can keep up a profit on your plantation and also perhaps sell the slave in the future, you need to FEED the slave. Thus, your only incentive for feeding the slave is to keep him alive so that he makes more money for you. Once slavery ended, these owners had no obligation to keep feeding these people because they didn't work for them anymore. You could argue that many former-slaves did come back to their plantations as free workers after the war, but a hardly livable wage of just pennies on the dollar a white man would be payed to do the same job.

Also for your points about how the confederacy didn't have some good ideas in terms of politics and governmental policy, there's not a lot of people that will argue that a group of politically well-versed men (a.k.a. Davis and his cabinet) wouldn't come up with a sound and working government. The only reason the entire system was doomed to collapse is because in the end it relied on slavery economically.

>>3333972
Lincoln didn't go through wit colonization plans because he realized before the war that it would never work. He would essentially be deporting people that are 2-3 generations apart from the original people taken from Africa. Slaves in mid 1800s America had virtually no cultural or linguistic connection to their African ancestors. They would not be able to assimilate into that society at all.

>>3338414
>You're free now slavery is over
>Oh wait, you're a black person in the south, you're fucked in the job market.
>You can come back to my plantation and make 2 cents a day while this white man makes 2 dollars a day.

Slavery was on the way out, anyway. Wage slavery is far more effective from an economic standpoint, because the owners don't have to deal with procuring food and housing, they just need to dole out a tiny amount of cash each month. You can even pay less than you would have spent on upkeep and the blame the workers for spending their money poorly. The workers will even be more productive thanks to their illusion of freedom. Plus it's a model that's sustainable indefinitely as long as most business owners are in on it. Get raped here or get raped there, but either way, spread those cheeks.

>>3339534
>You probably don't respect your slaves at all,
>Probably
Except your wrong? Slaves were not beaten, raped, and murdered en masse contrary to common belief. They were often seen as extended family even if they were seen as inferior.
>The reason the South was doomed to collapse was because of slavery
*They could've just replaced the slaves with modern farming equipment and continue to farm cash crops and keep industrialization light.

>>3339592

>Slaves were not beaten, raped, and murdered en masse
> en masse

Just because there was not mass rape and murder of slaves does not mean it wasn't much more common than the same thing happening to free men and women. At the end of the day, these slaves were property whether you like it or not. Many people didn't even consider them fully human (see the 3/5th compromise).

Also, just because I don't respect someone doesn't mean I want to beat, rape, or murder them. Respect can be as little as not wanting to give them a job once they are no longer the white man's property. You're dodging the point.

>They could've just replaced the slaves with modern farming equipment and continue to farm cash crops and keep industrialization light.

True, but the whole reason the Confederacy was fighting in the first place was for slavery. If they wanted to just secede for different reasons then sure, but the whole point of the confederacy was so that slavery could still exist in society.

>>3339627
>3/5ths compromise
Okay, I'm not reading this fucking thread, but that caught my eye. The 3/5ths compromise was between the southern slave holders who wanted slaves to count as 5/5ths of a person and the northerners who wanted them to count as 0/5ths of a person. Not necessarily accusing you directly, anon, but the point needs to be made that the southerners didn't reduce black folks to 3/5ths of a legal person because they felt like it, but because the alternative was for them to be as human as livestock for representation purposes.

>>3339627
Man, and some prison guards rape the inmates, that doesn't mean we should call prisons rape factories.

>>3333288
21st century retards displaying it a million times more than it was used during the actual Civil War.

The battle flag of an army that raided into Pennsylvania and captured escaped slaves to send back "home".

>>3339574
You put it very succinctly.

>>3339627
>You're dodging the point.
Not really. Slavery was a horrible and vestigial institution that was about to be replaced with industrialization , but was held onto by the South for various economic and political purposes, although it would've eventually been undone by industrialization. I'm not defending slavery, I'm just saying that it wasn't as bad as modern day progressives accuse it of being. Was it horrible? Yes. But it was really no more horrible than being of the poor working class anywhere.

Europeans treated their slaves much better than say the Turks or three Arabs, or other Africans.
>3/5ths compromise
Other anon explained that pretty well
>>3339701
>The whole reason was for slavery
On top of states right as part of the Jeffersonian legacy within Southern politics as well as major economic and cultural divides between the North and South. Chalking up the civil war to a single cause is highly fallacious.

>>3333288

It's a symbol of hopeless humiliation and loss.

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>>3333288
150 years of butthurt

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>>3333288
Country music, banjos, swamps, southern gentleman, southern belle, rednecks, cotton, negro slaves, NASCAR, KKK, Forrest Gump, old mansions

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>>3336269
here is another symbol of treachery for you then

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Pic related

>>3339701
Nice spin you Dixie hick, but at the end of the day it was the South being a whiny bitch wanting slaves to count toward the population while also treating them like property.

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>>3333288
Why do racists/nationalists make the best flag designs and anthems?

>>3338428
>freedom of movement = freedom to unionize

can southerners actually read? or are you just trying to dodge the question?