Why didn't the Vikings colonize the New World?

Scraelings chased them out.

>>3317303

they tried, but boomsticks and smallpox are better at killin' injuns than axes, swords and fetid breath

>>3317303
My alternate history fetish is one in which Canada is settled by Vikings.

Just needed to let you know OP. I'm drunk.

>>3317303
They did, but they were very few and their traces have been almost erased. They hadn't the population and the means to really start a prosperous colony.

they had settlements in canada for hundreds of years. eventually it was no longer economical. as climate change made things in greenland too cold. the cold it self didn't push them out either. it was just added onto the isolation of Greenland. that eventually sent them all back ti Iceland and Norway.

>>3317363

Why didn't they just settle somewhere warmer, like Florida?

>>3317331
Canada was settled by vikings you div though I guess you mean in the same way Brits took to the east coast.

>>3317368
because they would rather go back to iceland and europe. to be with their kin.

>>3317368
Why bother? The fishing in the Labrador Sea was insane, they had everything they needed up north.

>>3317368

They didn't think about exploring south until they had a solid base to operate from in the North.

Consider that the Vikings couldn't actually sail all that far over open water, and if you are hugging the coast, you have to sail around Nova Scotia, and it's a long time before you reach comfy places like Massachusetts. It would make sense to expand bit by bit on solid foundations.

The problem is that the Vikings settled in shit places that got really cold during the winter, and did not get along well with the Inuit at all. The Inuit were much harder to eradicate than the Ameri-Indians further south, since if they could just retreat into the ice and you wouldn't be able to follow them.

There's evidence that the viking settlements in North America were wiped out by Inuit attacks after being neglected by Norway.

>>3317368
Because Florida is and has always been unfit for human habitation

>Be a parasitic people that live off civilized peoples by raiding them.
>"Wow there's nobody to steal from over here."
>Leave.

>>3317448
They arent civilized if they cant defend themselves

>>3317303
They feared the Amerindian warrior.

>>3317303
They failed at being filthy barbarians that transmit deadly diseases to open up the north american east coast to easy colonization.

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The natives were like "oh shit whose deez whiteys let's throw axes and fire arrows they won't know what's up" and I worked.

>>3317483
Be sure to get all that shitposting in before school starts on Tuesday

>>3317448
The average Icelander/Greenlander was more educated than nearly every European

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>>3317303
Newfoundlander here, will give you the main reasons why they didn't settle in vinland/newfoundland

>they landed on the northern peninsula, one of the most inhosbitable parts of the island with high winds, lots of rain, and temps that can go as low as -30/-35
>the ground is pic related in most of newfoundland, and although pretty, is pretty shit for growing anything
>the main reasons explored west was to find arable lands to settle, and this part of newfoundland in particular is terrible
>although the settlement itself wasn't terrible land, to only see cliffs, shit tier topsoil and brush would affect the morale of the mission
>it is also rumored that the vikings recieved hostilities from the natives, which were more accustomed to the land and weren't at near the same disadvantage in technology as they would see in 500 years, and put up a decent fight

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>>3317331

The Viking Kingdoms Of Ferskvann Sjoen

1000 A.D. - the Viking colonists and some visiting traders at the L'Anse aux Meadows
settlement in Newfoundland, eat some bad mushrooms and collectively hallucinate Odin
ordering them to leave the island and move inland to the "Ferskvann Sjoen" [1] and the
entire settlement [2] packs up all their stuff and sails up the St.Lawrence River.

When Viking traders from Greenland arrive some months later, they find the settlement
abandoned and figure the Skrælings killed everybody and never return to N.America
as per the original timeline.

Meanwhile, the Vikings from L'Anse aux Meadows make their way up the St.Lawrence River,
thru Lake Ontario, portaging the Niagara Falls and thru Lake Erie, up past OTL Detroit and
thru Lake Huron to settle on Mackinaw Island and by the grace of the Gods, [3] all off them
survive and a new settlement is begun on the island.

While the Vikings are initially wary of the Skrælings and vice versa, they manage to avoid
any serious conflicts and inevitably, Viking men take Indian brides and the settlement soon
has enough people to maintain an effective population size.

As the years go by, the Vikings eventually expand, [4] forming new settlements along the
shores of OTL Michigan, Ontario and Wisconsin, using their ships and boats on the lakes
and rivers to maintain contact and trade.

Fast-forward to October 2, 1535 A.D. - On his 2nd voyage to the New World, Jacques
Cartier lands at the Iroquois settlement of Hochelaga (OLT Montreal) and is shocked
discover several Viking traders there.

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>>3318371

[1] Fresh Water Sea = The Great Lakes

[2] from Wiki: "There is no way of knowing how many men and women lived at the site
at any given time, however archaeological evidence of the dwellings suggest it had the
capacity of supporting 30 to 160 individuals."

Lets say it's 200 people total, 125 men and 75 women and all their tools, animals, seeds,
ships and boats, etc.

[3] They got lucky

[4] Absorbing some Indian tribes, wiping out others but I'd guess Old World diseases
introduced by the Vikings would have taken out of most of them as in OTL?

>>3317331
New Iceland is still a thing

>>3318371
Norse of America colonization wouldn't really work without continued support in the form of new colonist and tools. A few hundred norseman can't build a society from scratch.

>>3317791
>>the main reasons explored west was to find arable lands to settle, and this part of newfoundland in particular is terrible

there's no evidence this is the case though. They were definitely looking to make some money, in timber and furs at the very least. the Greenlandic settlement only really seemed to blossom because of walrus tusks

I'd imagine that were there some sort of commodity they could obtain there they would've settled were it to be worth shipping back to European markets. Precious metals, amber,

but further keep in mind that even the Basque and various other fishermen were around the island starting at least in the late 15th century and never established permanent settlements

>>3318798
well to be fair the catalyst for the entire expansion of vikings from denmark, sweden, and norway was the lack of farmland and agricultural goods to sustain the population
this forced them outwards, and if it wasn't the first priority in the viking's explorations, arable farmland was always in the back of their heads
however, there was an absolute fuckton of timber in both newfoundland and labrador for them to take, along with the coast teeming with fish and furs in labrador
the fact that these resources weren't enough to cancel their plans of settlement in newfoundland implied that their motivations may have been more than just resource extraction, and finding arable land was heavily prioritized

>>3317448

It's the native populations fault for not being accepting enough of their Vibrant Culture

>>3317411
Couldn't they take the Labrador Current around Nova Scotia to the estuaries of Eastern North America?

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>>3318898
they took the current but were disheartened by finding much of the same on the west coast of newfoundland (this is not entirely confirmed but two west coast viking settlements are under investigation and research currently)
i mean just look at that shit, not exactly farmland

cbf fighting everyone

>>3318846
Timber and fish were resources they allready had plenty of in Scandinavia.

>>3318940
>not exactly farmland
I always thought their main goal would have been timber exploitation since the colonies where they were from, Greenland and Iceland, were both heavily dependent on imported timber.

>>3317303
Because they were savages

>>3317303
Because the Vikings were too independent. Their colonies were for the most part not tied to a larger entity in the same way we think a nation's state or province is now.

As a result no central planning or enterprise drove the colonisation attempts and there was no coordination with a large government in mainland Europe.

>>3317303
The natives always trying to slaughter them for being evil witches (because the natives who ate the viking cheese all died of euro bacteria) outweighed the money they were getting back from it, which was mostly in furs and fish.. They never had enough of a presence to even explore Canada, let alone exploit its ungodly stores of pretty much every natural resource you could ever want

>>3317368
They didn't want to be too far from an established population.

>>3319020
pro tip: food is important for living

>>3317303
They did, iniuits kept fucking attacking them so they left.

>>3319092
Strictly speaking farmland isnt necessary for food. The area has always been full os fish and if you're trading wood you're probably getting food for it not to mention you're clearing land as you get it.

>>3317303
Why would they? It was far off and there were no real need to find more living space.
If I'm not mistaken the primary mission of the people travelling to Vinland was to find/trade lumber for the Greenland colonies. As such there was no real incentive to try any large scale colonising of the continent.

>>3319020
How would you ferry the timber back to Scandinavia? Furs I get, but timber? Besides, they already had furs and timber back in the old world. Had they had the numbers and technology to go further south it would have been a different thing.

>>3319224
You know that they norse people were notorious shipbuilders and sailors right? Besides, they in all likelyhood didn't ship the timber to Scandinavia as that would make as much sense as exporting sand to the Sahara.

>>3319243
Well that was my whole point, they didn't find anything they didn't already have.

>>3319224
How in the fuck did you get Scandinavia from Greenland and Iceland?

>>3319250
Does it change the crux of my point?

>>3319254
Yes it does. Greenland and Iceland are pretty much woodless. They are also closer to the Americas.

>>3319258
How would you move a useful amount of lumber on their ships?

>>3319271
By using an adequately large ship ofc.

This sounds like a horrible monty python knockoff.

>>3319295
>>3319271
By tying logs together and floating it over there. It fucking floats ffs.

>>3319295
If they could and knew how, they would.
>>3319317
Please point out any point in history where someone moved anything in this manner over the North Atlantic, or any other open sea or ocean.

They feared the Skraeling warrior

>>3319335
>If they could and knew how, they would.
Honestly? Fuck off. Timber export to Iceland has been going on for centuries. You might as well be the retard claiming sardinia couldn't be reached until the renaissance.

>>3319347
One thing is arriving to Iceland, transporting timber there in 11th century over Atlantic seems impossible to me.

>they were not unified
>lacked large scale capital
>no significant resources were found that were not found at home
>small population

>>3317363
> Climate change froze Greenland.
No, it didn't. The island was named Greenland to try and attract settlers.

Which would you rather move to, Happy Happy Fun Place Where Everyone Gets Laid or Hellish Waste Where You Freeze Your Dick Off?

It's the same bullshit as the 72 virgins line if you blow yourself up.

>>3317303
they got btfo by the beothuk

>>3317303
I'Lol never get how They had such good naval technology, did They steal a Roman ship or What?

>>3317303
They feared the red warrior.

>>3319394
>> Climate change froze Greenland.
>No, it didn't.

Do you seriously not know what the Medieval Warm period was?

>>3319368
Then youre fn opinionated fucking idiot that needs to read more

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>>3319405
Scandinavian ships descended from a long line of naval engineering traditions practiced by the Northern Celts and Germanics living in an area from Britain all the way to Scandinavia.

If you've seen celtic shipbuilding they resemble Vikingshit a bit. Shipbuilding dated back to Bronze Age Northern Europe as evidence by the Nydam and Hjortspring boats n shiet.

>>3319405
>did They steal a Roman ship or What?
Iirc Caesar lost more than half his ships during his invasion of Britain. In that all he did was cross the english channel unopposed. Roman ships weren't very goid at all and specialized for travel around the Mediterranean.

>>3319384
>lacked large scale capital

I've thought of this before, N. American settlement involved too longterm of payoffs to really be possible before joint stock companies. An individual ship captain, as was the case in all the sagas, couldn't stick around long enough

They would probably build ships there, but not harvest any wood except that directly going to Greenland. Scandinavia had little demand for wood especially at the price they would've charged because of the distance/time invested. So outside of valuable commodities like precious metals or something else both easy to transport and valuable, while requiring extensive investment and settling I don't see the Norse ever really settling Newfoundland.

It's hard for us modern people, especially North Americans to comprehend that. As we know what happened to the nations that got involved it and ultimately the colonial nations that formed, wealth through nearly endless territory and farmland, abundance of all sorts of resources, etc. This wasn't at all apparent to them in the sagas

>>3319394
>medieval warm period
>greenland is still a frozen wasteland. though there are some nice comfy green fjords and valleys to have sheep and maybe plant some winter wheat.
>few hundred years later. shit is too cold now for crops and sheep. everyone is tired of eating fish and seals.
>everyone goes back to iceland or norway

>>3317303
Why didn't Viking diseases spread to the New World?

>>3317303
They lacked the Anglo spirit of self-determination.

>>3317411
I thought inuits were peaceful?

>>3317303
They feared the red warrior

>>3320213
not enough contact.

the vikings were isolated from europe and they had limited contact with greenland and north american natives.

>>3317307

>>3320531
America belongs to the amerindians anyway. Get over it.

>>3321315
You misinterpreted my question

>>3321988
>America belongs to the amerindians anyway
So you agree with it?

Your dumb falseflagging attempt will not stop your replacement.

>>3321995
I never said that America didn't belong to the amerindians. I was simply asking if the inuits were actually peaceful, which is what I've heard all my life yet this thread is filled with people saying the inuits were non stop attacking the vikings. There's no need to be so agro anon, we're all here because we love history.

>>3322170
Oops Wrong Thread.

>>3319224
>How would you ferry the timber back to Scandinavia? Furs I get, but timber?
but they did it so regularly that there's an icelandic chronicle that mentions that in some year 13xx which I forgot, a greenlandish ship that carried timber from vinland got lost in a sea storm and ended up in iceland. the fact that they went to vinland and brought home timber is merely mentioned as if it was common knowledge that vinland exists and greenlanders travel there and back regularly.
>Besides, they already had furs and timber back in the old world. Had they had the numbers and technology to go further south it would have been a different thing.
newfoundland is closer, besides Europe had other stuff they would fill their ships with, stuff that would not be obtainable from vinland.

>>3317368
>why didn't abos colonize Siberia?

>>3317448
There's an Aztec legend about red-haired giants that they drove to extinction. The vikings probably did fear the red warrior.

>>3320040
Rude to be honest. Why don't you recommend me a book then?

>>3322901
Thanks.

>>3322901
>>3322170
>the inuits were actually peaceful, which is what I've heard all my life

t. never met an Inuit

Inuits are subhuman animals; murderers, rapists, druggies, and thieves all. Just look at any statistic on alcoholism, murder, drug abuse or crime in Nunavut and Greenland and compare it to similar places like Iceland, Svalbard or the Yukon. Inuits are and have always been violent and dangerous subhumans.

>>3317303

It was unprofitable most surely. Because they tried colonizing a very cold region, unsuitable for agriculture.

>>3319047
It worked for the ancient Greeks in the Mediterranean.

>>3326167
That's because most Greek city colonies had the backing of powerful city states.

Not small bands of private migratory jerkoffs who expected to work the land.

>>3326167
The difference is the Mediterranean is a rich, fertile sun-kissed land sitting against a calm, bountiful ocean, whereas Newfoundland is a rocky crag which is cut off from the rest of the world by sea ice in the winter

>>3326205
Actually Greeks settled in quite hostile places. Crimea was one: they established a city state in aplace filled with shitty Steppenigs.

If the Vinland sagas work as a source, it was because

>get to Vinland after a very long travel
>try to settle
>problems with the natives
>they want stuff we don't want to give away and they don't want to give away the stuff we want
>a cow of ours breaks lose and kills a native
>war follows
>we go back to our homeland
>many die
>prepare to go back to Vinland
>many die again but we arrive
>internal fighting caused by a fucking bitch poisoning the mind of her husband
>more fights against the natives
>have to run
>find an old man with two kids, one male and one female, kill the old man and kidnap the children
>the plan is to learn their language and come back
>traveling back home one of the ships gets fucked and sink
>we see most of our people screaming and dying
>get back to our homeland someone
>fuck it, fuck Vinland
>never go back again

>>3320531
Not when your first contact involves capturing one and stabbing him to death just to see how he reacts.