Red pill me on Atlantis /his/?

Myth built on myth built on myth. Last I heard it was originally a Greek polis at the mouth of the Nile where they are uncovering a sunken city which would exist at the same time as Troy and rival it.

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mix of memories from before the bronze age collapse, mainly the sea peoples and santorini eruption

>>3316947
Birth place of the white race, after its fall they around the world, spreading civlization
>>3316969
>Myth built on myth built on myth
get a hold on this kike

Plato made it up to illustrate a point. It was kind of Plato's thing.

>>3316969
History itself is a myth.

>>3316947

It was Minoan Crete. If you divide the numbers for the size, location, and time since its sinking that Plato gives by ten, you get a Crete sized island, roughly where Crete should be, at roughly the time of the Santorini eruption that devastated Crete with a tsunami and which ended forever the Cretean hegemony over the mainland Greeks, including the inhabitants of the Mycenean city of Athene.

>>3317013
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

MINOAN CRETE ENDING WITH THE SANTORINI ERUPTION AHAHAHAHAHAHA HE DOES'T KNOW THAT MANY OF THE MINOAN PALACES YOU SEE TODAY WERE REBUILT BIGGER AND MORE BEAUTIFUL AFTER THE ERUPTION AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA HE DOES NOT KNOW CRETE STILL HAD HEGEMONY OVER THE SEA TWO CENTURIES AFTER THE ERUPTIONS UNTIL MYCENEANS CONQUERED THEM AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Oral history about Minoan Greeks built up over centuries. Then embellished heavily by Plato. So he could make a poem as a cautionary tale.

/x/

>>3317011
What does he mean by this?

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>>3317011

on another note was Homeric Greece and Mycenae all one kingdom, or just an alliance of every separate citystate as listed in the catalogue of ships vs Troy? How was that remotely fair?

>>3317103
Archaeologists thought they were many kingdoms because of the word Wanax meaning king, but foreign contemporary sources speak of it as one kingdom, Hittites often speak of Ahhywa and the Hittite emperor wrote letters to the king of Ahhyawa, giving him the same title of "Brother" he usually gave to the rulers of the great kingdoms of Egypt, Babylon or Mitanni, and the Egyptians called Greece "Tanaju" as one kingdom, so these written texts seems to suggests they were, at least temporarily, a unified kingdom

>>3316947
Evil antediluvian technologically advanced civilization.

>>3316947
Okay, I'll entertain the idea that it wasn't a mythical utopia created or expanded upon by Plato in a tale.

If real, I can only see Atlantis existing as a lost "advanced" civilization in an area that is now covered with water. This is NOT in the Atlantic Ocean as some island like your pic claims, as the geography of the Atlantic Ocean floor would not permit such a landmass to exist. If, and this is a big if, it existed, I see two plausible scenarios:

1. It was a civilization that we know about, as someone already said the Crete Minoans as an example, that was embellished by Plato into his poem. That is just one of many examples, and while I usually hate using Wikipedia as a blanket source for other examples, this page gives a lot of them if you want to look it over (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location_hypotheses_of_Atlantis).

2. This one is far less plausible in my opinion, but theoretically could carry weight given how much is unknown about our past. Atlantis could have been a very very early "advanced" ancient civilization that was located on a coastline, basin, or landmass that was flooded and covered once the sea levels rose. I don't mean an industrialized, car driving, electricity using civilization, but one that had advanced things for 12,000+ years ago. This ranges from sewage, intricate water pipe lines, urban planning, commerce, among other things that civilizations did not have in those days.

Before someone gets a rage boner and pounds away at their keyboard over this, remember, I'm not saying I believe this at all. I just think these are the only two plausible ways this speculative ancient civilization could have existed.

>>3317079
That your mother herself is a myth.

>>3316969
It wasn't even a myth, it was a explicitly fictional city invented by Plato as part of a morality play.
Nobody in history actually believed Atlantis existed until new agers in the 1920's started pretending it was a real place to sell crystal balls and shit.

>>3316947
Plato was using it as a hypothetical. Literally no one until the modern era even considered the possibility of it being a real place.

>ywn live between the time the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Aryas
>ywn be pressed into military service by a Peloponnese warlord to put down a rival at a time when iron is taking over from bronze
>ywn be sent on errands around the Mediterranean as part of a ploy to get rid of unruly soldiers who gained status in the war
>ywn travel to Crete, Thrace, Paros, Bithynia, Pontus and far west with the Phoenicians to Tartessos, obtaining vast riches as a mercenary
>ywn gain renown amongst greek merchants as your adventuring coincides with the growth of their trade networks, pressuring the warlord to stop sending you away

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>>3316947
If you want to go down the crazy conspiracy road ... the ice age world had much more coastline land present that was flooded. The idea that an advance civilization by the coast was wiped out isn't insanely impossible.

>>3316969

Myths can be true.

>>3318073
It's a bit far fetched though, considering that civilizations only appeared after the end of the ice age.

>>3317154
hey thanks this is a really good post :)

15000 years ago there was a comet impact on North America that set the entire continent on fire. The smoke blocked out the sun and created a mini ice age where much of the oceans collected at the poles as ice causing a massive drop in sea levels.
The drop in sea levels revealed the Mid-Atlantic ridge, one of the largest mountain ranges in the world. This landmass in the middle of the Atlantic would have been a premium location for a maritime society, a society that would have been washed away a few thousand years later when the ice age ended and the waters returned.

Both early Native Americans and early Europeans have myths of people and gods coming from the sea to teach them civilization.
As a Classicist, I wouldn't be surprised if something like Atlantis existed.

>>3316947

>>3317154
>the geography of the Atlantic Ocean floor would not allow such a landmass to exist
What is the Mid-Atlantic ridge + the Younger Drayas?

>>3318185
Unless we don't know about them, because you know, they sunk were swallowed by the waters...

A seafaring civilization would settle coastal areas and especially estuaries and be lost to this global catastrophe.

We continuously push back the dates for large scale megalithic builds with sites like Göbleki Tepe (abandoned and buried 9k years ago) and Gudung Padang (exceeding 12k years)

Myth speaks of "gods" building megalithic sites and and teaching secret knowledge that become great civilizations in Mesopotamia, Egypt, Mesoamerica and the Andes.

We also don't really know how old many of the megalithic sites really are, because it's notoriously difficult to date stone structures.

For example the Sphinx that archaeologists say is 4,5k years old, has been dated by geologists to >10k Bc, because of substantial water erosion linking it to a time when egypt was wetter and greener.

>>3318325
good post

Only tangentially related, but is there evidence ancient sailors reached places like Madeira, the Azores, and Cape Verde before the Age of Exploration?

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>>3316947
WOW WTF. It could be there before the sea lvl rise.

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>>3318793
There are quite a few maps like the Piri reis map that show the american coast, some even Antarctica before it was discovered and maped in modern times (Buache, Mercator & Oronteus Finaeus maps). Couriously they show rivers and mountains on the southern continent that match subglacial geology.

They map makers were supposedly composing older source material from antiquity.
I think I even read somewhere that Columbus stumbled upon a map like that and had in onboard when sailing west.

Read Graham Hancock - Fingerprints of the Gods
He discusses these maps in length and gives all relevant sources.

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>>3319969
Here is the map from Finaeus from 1531

Antarctica wasn't officially discovered until 1820

Ancient civilization that was pretty much wiped out before the end of the last ice age.

>>3316947
It was actually the Minoans.

>>3319969
I'm currently reading magicians of the gods, do you recommend fingerprints?

>>3320201
I haven't read the magicians yet, so I'm not sure what is redundant.

Fingerprints goes into these maps, mathematical and astronomical knowledge of ancient civilization (precession of the equinox, pi in pyramids etc.), archaeological evidence of ancient origins and the global cataclysm, mythological origins and "creator gods" and into Antarctica.

It is very well worth the read, although magicians will be more up to date.

>>3317011

Trumper detected

>>3318271
i want to believe too but......

>>3319980

long standing beliefs that there would be found "roughly" the same amount of land in the southern hemisphere as there was land in the northern hemisphere...people expected the globe to be "balanced" as so many cartographers inserted a large incognito continent in the southern portions of their maps to compensate for undiscovered land

history BA here
wrote my final paper on the age of discovery/exploration/colonization
that's all i got

>>3317035
>HURR

I am well aware that Crete survived the eruption you dense faggot, try reading my post again. I'll give you a clue:
>ended forever the Cretean hegemony over the mainland Greeks

>>3317117
>>3317103

The Hittites treated every foreign nation as tho it were a unified state like their own, archeological evidence suggests very strongly that the Acheans lived in numerous small kingdoms, each centered on a proto-city. Some of the more powerful small states, such as the one based at Pylos, ruled multiple proto-cities, but nothing like the scope of the great Empires of the East, or even the scale of the larger Poleis of the Archaic and Classical periods.

>>3317154

The Greeks learned civilization from the Minoans, Minoan Crete ruled the Agean up until the great tsunami caused by the Thera eruption destroyed their fleet and inundated their island. They didn't "sink beneath the waves" so much as had the waves rise up over them, but poetically Plato's version is better.

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>>3320348
well that's a pretty good guess for a fantasy continent then

>>3318073
>The idea that an advance civilization by the coast was wiped out isn't insanely impossible.

Yes, it is. Why has zero evidence for it ever been found? It was ALL on land that is now flooded, not even a single bit was on land that is still above water? And why is there no evidence for domestication of crops or animals before the neolithic? Not just no bones or remains found, but no microparticles found in glaciers, despite the appearance of domesticated plants in the glacial record very soon after the known date of domestication.

>>3320415
It is possible that they use other form of agriculture.
Kind of like American Natives that instead of turning woodland into farmland 'domesticated' woodland by replacing wild trees by trees that yield fruits nuts and by planting crops more in garden like way that massive monocultured fields.

Or they rely much more on fishing and other sea products. Like Andean civilizations.

>>3320403
Mycenean cities were bigger than most Near Eastern cities

>>3320406
Myceneans conquered Crete two hundred years after The Santorini eruption

>>3320406
Myceneans conquered Crete two hundred years after The Santorini eruption and Minoans had restanlished their civilization by then

>>3320393
But thats wrong you ignorant fuck, Cretans ruled over much of The Aegean isles and parts of Anatolia way after The eruption

>>3317103
When you say "fair", do you mean how was the war between the Achaeans and the Trojans fair or equal? Troy was a small city, but their armies would have been reinforced by a large amount of allies too.

>>3317745
Sons of Ares. He was referencing the Greeks, but had a weird pronunciation.

>>3317013
Indiana Jones taught me that

>>3316989
this

>>3317013
>roughly where Crete should be
>in the Atlantic Ocean