Why is Byzantine art so shit compared to actual non-larpy Roman art.

>>3301989
i thought that picture on the right was a piece of incan art for the longest time...
byzantium is fucking shit and for /pol/ larpers

Most of the artisans died or moved out into the fields during the many plagues, or the many civil wars

There was a period when religious icons were destroyed. It became such a big issue civil wars and uprisings occured aimed at destroying religious art works.

>>3301989
Probably because if Christianity.

>>3301989
>same fucking bust shit you see everyday crafted merely to depict someone's likeness and literally no further artistic purpose
>better than beautiful and massive mosaic panelling vividly designed and stylized with all sorts of colors and real fucking gold and only making up a small portion of an entire church filled with similar panels and designs which create an unbelievably magnificent whole

Got any Roman paintings?

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>>3302056
Thing is, the Romans had paintings as well as the sweet classical sculptures. Byzantines just had their retarded finger painting.

Iconoclasm.

>>3302033
>>3302088
Byzantines = european mohammadians

>>3301989
Why are you comparing a mosaic with a sculpture?

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They moved on from it. It went out of fashion. From around the fourth century on, realistic sculpture was considered obsolete and sort of kitschy, the same way we think of Thomas Kinkade paintings today, technically competent and pretty to look at but not really worth paying for. Symbolic art with exaggerated or simplified features started to be considered a higher form of art. Realistic art still survived into the Late Roman period but it was mostly in the form of art meant to be consumed by peasantry, things like decorated crockery and wall panels.

Source:
R. R. R. Smith, Late Antique Portraits in a Public Context: Honorific Statuary at Aphrodisias in Caria, A.D.300-600, Journal of Roman Studies 89 (1999)

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They had great architecture though

To be honest, most of the good Byzantine art was probably destroyed during iconoclasm, stolen and carried off to Venice during the crusades or rebranded as Muslim bu the ottomans

>>3302091
confirmation bias intensifies

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Can someone please explain to me how this isn't more impressive than that dull ass sculpture?

>>3304046
>>3304555
>>3304572
Byzaboos are the worst

>>3304046

kind of explains how today art is a vapid wasteland

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Why does Spanish art put all others to shame?

>>3306341
Not an argument.

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The byzantines worked wonders with mosaics, just because it doesn't have a realistic aesthetic doesn't make it bad

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>>3306341
>act like a retard
>try and voice your kindergarten tier opinions about something you clearly don't understand
>get btfo immediately
>'b-byzaboo!'
Stay buttblasted.

>>3301989

Mosaic byzantine

>shit

Check your taste man

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>>3301989
>>3302001
>>3302036
>>3302078
>>3302091
Why is /his/ so full of brainlets?

>>3301989
Not the Eastern Roman Empire's fault you have such shit taste :^)

>>3304046
This bust must have directly inspired that 80's-90's Disney style.

>>3306440
No, seriously that's, what? Five retarded comments proven wrong with a single picture?
This place really is a shithole of stupidity sometimes.

>>3306440
I am Greek and never knew this painting. Thank you.

>>3306445
>Eastern Roman Empire

You mean Greek Vassal State of Ottoman

>>3301989
Orthodox christianity. They have a very limited view on aesthetics.

>>3301989
Religion

>>3306440
lol look at this cross eyed retard

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How did they go from this...

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>>3307299
...to this?

>>3307301
Second one is objectively better, you numale roach meme pepe low test cuck!

>>3307301
Was this designed by a 5 year old?

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>>3301989
The Venetians stole all the good shit.

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>>3307060

>>3302001
>i thought that picture on the right was a piece of incan art for the longest time...
that's because you are retarded

>>3301989
Christianity influence

>>3307301
I quite like the style but the actual proportions are a bit fucked for my taste.

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>>3301989

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>>3308659

>>3307272
Thanks for proving his point, since you lack the brain cells to understand symbolism in art.

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>Roman Catholicism artistically redeemed itself
>Orthodoxy still making icons in OP's style

>>3308734
>shitty art style
>actually on purpose and 2deep4u

>>3304046
>citing a source to back up your claims
THIS ISN'T THE BOARD I KNOW AND LOVE

>>3301989

its like pixel art of the past

just a style

>>3309183
If you like the path western Wuropean art took in late medieval times when it broke from copying the Byzantine style, you have Tuscany to thank for it.

Say thanks.

>>3306440
What's that picture supposed to prove?

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Realism = materialism = non spiritual paganism

The stylized perspectives and depictions in Byzantine and other early Christian art were a conscious movement away from the paganism of the outside world.

>>3309183
It is no coincidence artists returned to both realism and pagan themes during the renaissance when stuff like this starts reappearing. This is part of why Nietzsche hypes up the renaissance saying it was the greatest chance Europe had ever had when "Christianity had ceased to occupy the papal chair."

>>3309535
The ancient Greco-Roman world showed itself capable to create all sorts of art, including the very symbolic, the Byzantines just stuck to making almost badly-drawn icons even though they could do better as evidenced to a degree by things like the Paris Psalter or Manuel Panselenus's work.

Compare El Greco's older Byzantine-style workds with his later ones. What exactly did they lose? Just goes to show that the early Christian ideology that continued to reign in Byzantium really held them back, was the case with the ancient Greek mathematical works they possessed in their own language but neglected because pagan!

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These are two depictions of the authors of the Gospels, both from the 9th century, one from Germany and one from Ireland

Would you say one is outright better than the other?

>>3309535
>non spiritual paganism

are you ignorant or just retarded?

>>3309535
>renaissance
>when "Christianity had ceased to occupy the papal chair
What?

>>3309535
>guys, these fucking pagans made all these realistic and aesthetically pleasing pieces of art
>let's make every single image of ours look like absolute shit to praise Jesus
The enlightenment could've have come soon enough.

>>3309750
>The enlightenment
>What is the Renaissance
You neopagans need to stop warping things.

>>3302091
Christianity was autistic too. Olden times were autistic as shit in general with our perfect hindsight. 90% (generous) of everyone didn't know their dicks from their butts.

>>3309757
>what's the Renaissance
A period of time where there was a flourishing of science and art, granted as long as it was condoned by the church. The enlightenment is what really helped the west get rid of retards like puritans or other fundamentalists who would want to ban things.

>>3309763
Okay I more or less agree with that. Your previous made it seem like there was supposedly nothing of worth in the realm of art in predominately Christian nations until the enlightenment.

>>3302001
Eurganatans can't do that.

>>3309763
>granted as long as it was condoned by the church
they were the only game in town wealthy enough to invest in those things.

The only reason Galileo Galilei had a career is because of the church's patronage. They got him to shut the hell up because that's what happens when you brazenly run around bad mouthing the guy signing your paychecks.

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>>3309183
Russian Orthodox painting is some of the most spiritually moving work ever

>>3309586
I actually like the Irish one better

>>3309936
Thanks for this. It's amazing.

>>3309183
it's almost like the majority of the Orthodox world was being oppressed by the Ottomans

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>>3309959
This
Honestly not sure, if that is the point he is trying to make or not. The Irish one is precise and intricate, easy to digest, and all around beautiful to look at where as the Carolingian one just looks borderline sloppy. It seems beyond a doubt which one is better in my eyes.
But given half the posts I've seen in this thread already, it is really not surprising to me that /his/ has terrible artistic taste.

pic related, close up look at some of the detailing seen in the book of kells

>>3301989
>generalized loss of expertise during the late imperial pestilencies
>shift of focus from statues to decoration and from realism/aesthetics to formulaic symbolism
>iconoclasm destroying said decorations and developed expertise

>>3309586
Insular art was a mistake.

>>3310652
It has less to do with that and more to do with the post-Iconoclast Byzantine world creating a dogmatic ruleset for religious art. That's the main reason why it showed little growth for almost a millennium.

>>3311244
except that Constantinople used to have entire statues of famous Greeks and Romans decorating the city until the 4th crusade destroyed everything

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>>3309936
Nikolai Ge is patrician

>>3311292

Is that Rasputin?

>>3311297
That's Christ and Pilatus

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>>3309936

>>3306400
>[...]Porn[...].jpg

>>3311260
Having classical examples around you doesn't mean you want to or will make use of them in your art.

>>3311318
if they wanted to they would've destroyed them since they're basically idolatric statues but chose not to, besides a huge percentage of Byzantine art has been destroyed from the crusaders, which is why you don't see much of it now

>>3302091
>Byzantines
>Europeans

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>Byzaboos trying to talk up their mosaics
lmao sit down

aesthetically, it's pretty meh, but it's really fascinating how artwork was used interstate relations to deal with the persians, huns, arabs, slavs, goths, and so on. the roman conceptions of property influenced their view of politically binding gifts, and so they would often try to give gifts to influence other states if they shared a religious link (sending religious artwork to kiev), cultural link (sending greco-roman stuff to whoever was interested in a hellenistic revival), or scaring the shit out of some barbarians. not sure if a 'display' counts as artwork, but they would have very elaborate, decadent, and precise exhibitions whenever they received or sent out a convoy, irregardless of the economic troubles they were having. diplomats were very well trained, and were often religious if they shared a religious link with who they were visiting. it often involved a very symbolic subordination to the imperial majesty whenever they were dealing with people they weren't afraid of. things got more desperate after Constantinople fell. check out the Book of Ceremonies if you're interested in a primary source. also Byzantine Art and Diplomacy in an age of decline by Cecily Hilsdale is a great secondary one.

>>3304572
I was there last week, it was more impressive than the sculptures

>>3311337
Yes but they were not using them as icons of worship. The rules for such things were not relevant in the west because the west didn't really have to deal with a wide spread iconoclasm crisis

>>3306440
So what, they had a few not shitty peices of art?

>>3307301
Looks like Spurdo :DDD

Like
>>3304046
says realistic sculpture was considered a bit old hat, at least until around the 8th century, I don't know much about Byzantine art after that but I imagine it might've been the same.

Later Roman and Byzantine art prized exaggerated features and symbolism, realism just wasn't important to them anymore, and as other people have mentioned realistic depictions were relegated to things like plates or charms.

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>>3311372
Please, go on.

>>3309586
Are we supposed to prefer the one on the left or something? Much prefer the Irish depiction.

>>3309185
>brainlet
>lol i can't see it therefore it isn't there

>>3311372
what anime is the one on the right from?

Because ancient europeans were up here, and post hebrew mythology europeans were down here

>>3311372
It's actually really interesting seeing the quality of art go down so much. The barbarian invasions and collapse of the western empire seems to have had a huge impact on the east even though it survived.

>>3313501
Only that's totally wrong and Roman art started to get more stylised centuries before the west fell. The two art styles coexisted even.

>>3304046
I thought it was the decline of quality artists, as well as the christianization of Europe.

>>3313574
>centuries before the west fell
One or two centuries? Yes the decline was long coming, and the "coexistion" only represents the transition.

>>3307299
>The Chad Imperator
>>3307301
>The Virgin Basileus

>>3314463
>people were making hyperstylised sculptures in the third century
>people were still making realistic sculpture in the eighth century
>this is somehow a transitional period
Anon please read a book about late Roman art history

>>3314445
>I thought it was the decline of quality artists, as well as the christianization of Europe
No that's stupid Gibbonian garbage

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>Byzantine art was sh-

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Why does the later roman empire trigger autist so much?

>>3311405
Interesting. Thank you.

>>3313066
>>3314631
>>3314775
Beautiful, but not Roman

>>3309936
Hey guys check out my new black metal album cover.

>>3314775
They don't grasp the concept of succession.
>what's going on?
>why is it in the east now?
>Where's ironman?
>I'm too dumb to understand it so it's wrong!

>>3311588
This thread has dozens of examples of good Byzantine art.
Not our fault you're so dense.

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>>3311292
>>3310518

>>3315173
Lol

The state didn't have the money to fund projects like it had before the fall of the west.

Dumb fucks.