Did Pachacuti do more good or bad for Chile?

Everything he did, he did for his God and for his country. At the behest of the Chilean Parliament. And he created the richest country in South America as a result.

Wealth matters. Fewer kids dead of starvation, malnutrition, disease, lack of medicine. It means hope and potential realised. Chile today is a country that looks to the future with hope. And if achieving that needed some free helicopter rides for a handful of rabble rousers, wasn't it worth it?

>>3282704
Wow Lucia you conveniently forgot to mention the Concertacion governments where Chile actually grew. Hope you're enjoying all that money your hubby stole.

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>>3282704

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>>3282704
He sold his country to the americans and follow the advice of the judden chicago boys.

>>3282704
He ignored the advice of the Chicago Boys and pegged the Peso to the Dollar like a typical tinpot dictator leading to a financial crisis. His economic legacy would only be realized later when the massive foreign investment he encouraged began to trickle down.

Good

>>3282874

Who are those people? My gf has a t-shirts of the woman on the top left and the guy on the bottom right.

>>3282874
name 1 (ne) thing Miltn Friedman gt wrng

>>3282900

Did he have any answers to economic problems that didn't involve the money supply?

>>3282900
he advocated to destruction of "evil" public services for private profit.

>>3282900
he advocated for the destruction of "evil" public services for private profit.

>>3282916
>>3282918

How is that wrong? Privatisation where it's done properly works really well.

>>3282898
Where'd you meet her, anon?

>>3282939

Why don't you have private property anon? Are you some kind of beta?

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>>3282898
Break up with her asap.

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>>3282990
Nou

>>3282517
Good
He killed the gommies and make the economy the best in south america

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>>3282704

>This is what the suburban gringo actually believes

>>3282986

A pub. She's a student.

>>3282981
>it gets better

For the multinationals maybe, but the public services in chile sucks.

>>3282990
Yes man, I like all my public services privatised, trust my life to the market invisible hand, so I can feel like a perfect stranger in my own country, jackass.

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>>3283241
>public services

Welp

>>3283265
wtf are you on about bro?

>>3282704
> Chile today is a country that looks to the future with hope
>delusional spics actually believe this

>>3283035
>actually waving the flag of the ussr in 2017
even commies won't touch that one with a ten foot pole

>>3283072
Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman are the names you're looking for.
Given the rarity of it I'd be suspicious that a chick like that has mental issues.

>>3282874
Out of all arguments commies could make against Pinochet, the worst one is the "he sold his country!"

There isn't a single left-wing political movement in Latin America that hasn't sold his country to Cuba when it got the chance. It's not surprising, much of the modern Latin American left is a creation of the Cuban intelligence service, specially Manuel Piñeiro and his Americas Department. Contemporary Venezuela and Nicaragua during the 1980s are considered the worst in this regard, but even Brazil during Worker's Party management sent hundreds of millions of dollars to Cuba for little gain because of "muh Latin American solidarity".

Chile under Allende had Cuban agents organizing the security of the President and helping create the urban guerrillas such as the MIR that were being prepared to take power after Allende.

What is selling a few state-owned enterprised to American companies compared to this level of interference and sovereignty loss?

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>>3283724
>>3283699

>If you want good public services you are a commie.

Why americans are so selfcucked?

>>3283714
Not sure what communists you've been talking to. Maybe anarchists or salty Trotskyists. The hammer and sickle symbol has been used by many other socialists/ communists, not only the Soviets.

>>3283807

It's a symbol of murder and violent subjugation. I judge anyone flying it the same as I would judge someone flying a swastika.

>>3282898
It means your gf likes shitty writers.

>>3283887
I view it as a symbol of worker class power both industrial and agricultural.

The USSR was the first attempt at a socialist state. Both it's failures and successes should be learned from.

>>3283906
>Both it's failures and successes should be learned from.

And what were precisely those lessons to be learned?

>>3283747
because america has been trained to obey and defend corporations

>>3282874
>he sold his country
Not even defending him, but he didn't. That was the left wing presidents that came from the 90' onwards.
t. Actual Chilean.

>>3283209
The guy you quoted is a moron, but you too. Read some history kid.

>>3283906
>being this blinded by your own political views.
If you don't think that communist and nazis are fucking idiots, then you are a fucking idiot.

>>3283922
Russia is a terrible place for it to have started because its geopolitical position has always been fucking terrible and forced the Russians to blob like mad to protect itself.

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>>3283906

t. Useful idiot

>>3284071
Yes. it had would be better if the revolution had started in one of the most developed capitalist countries like marx had predicted... oh wait.

>>3283035
>judge people by their true merit
>judge
wow, bigot much? Are you implying there are objective by which we should judge people? Are you implying some people are better than others? Wtf, it's 2017 we're all equal.

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>>3284001

Pinochet was nothing more than a vicious dog in service of multinationals and an aggresive free market. He's Macron with a machine gun, hardly an entertaining thought

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>>3282704
This,
>Inb4 leftist and liberal sperging about muh democracy when he was elected dictator by Parliament

>>3283724
>Letting international corporations owe and use your national resources is equivalent to diplomatic relations with Cuba
Especially when that country is the one of thee few that can withstand American interferrence

>>3284338
Did you miss the party where he said that Cubans we're arming militias to have a forceful Marxist coup of the government after Allende. Allende was not demsoc, he was a hardcore Marxist.

I'm glad he offed himself with his own 7.62 t b h

>the unique argument is "if you want better services you have to nationalize them"
>you are trained to defend companies!
Is this a bait thread, or are these people actually european?

>>3284344
You mean the part where the MIR feared a coup would happen under Allende and was proven right? No

>>3282704
He caused his political opponents to be raped and horribly tortured for God?
Hmm... strange God, that.
Let's see what this God wants...
>One torture method which was very commonly used was the "grill" or "La Parrilla." In this torture, electricity was fed from a standard wall outlet through a control box into two wires each terminating in electrodes. The control box gave the torturers the option of adjusting the voltage being administered to the prisoner. The naked prisoner was stretched out and strapped onto a metal bedframe, or a set of bedsprings, and tied down. He or she was subjected to electrical shocks on several parts of the body, especially on sensitive areas like the genitals and on open wounds. The Valech Report includes a testimony of a Chilean man who was interrogated by prison captors. They took off his clothes and "attached electrodes to his chest and testicles. They put something in his mouth so he would "bite his tongue while they shocked him."[33] In another method, one of the wires would be fixed to the prisoner (typically to the victim's genitalia) while another wire could be applied to other parts of the body. This caused an electric current to pass through the victim's body, with a strength inversely proportional to the distance between the two electrodes. A smaller distance between the electrodes led to a stronger current and thus more intense pain for the prisoner. A particularly barbaric version of the "grill" was the use of a metal bunk bed; the victim was placed on the bottom bunk and on the top bunk, a relative or friend was simultaneously tortured.
Oh, shit. Hmm. I don't know about this God.

>>3282704
Let's look at something else...
>Pinochet's regime carried out many gruesome and horrific acts of sexual abuse against the victims. In fact, several detention sites were solely instituted for the purpose of sexually tormenting and humiliating the prisoners. Discothèque (La Venda Sexy) was another one of DINA's main secret detention centers. Many of those who "disappeared" were initially held in this prison. The prison guards often raped both men and women. It was at this prison where internal repression operations were centralized. Militants anally raped male prisoners, while insulting them, in an attempt to embarrass them to their core.[39]
>Women were the primary targets of gruesome acts of sexual abuse. According to the Valech Commission, almost every single female prisoner was a victim of repeated rape. Not only would military men rape women, they would also use foreign objects and even animals to inflict more pain and suffering. Women (and occasionally men) reported that spiders and live rats were often implanted on their genitals. One woman testified that she had been "raped and sexually assaulted with trained dogs and with live rats." She was forced to have sex with her father and brother—who were also detained.[40]
Hmm

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>only 3k commies executed and 27k tortured during his reign
k/d nothing to write home about sadly

>>3282704
Kiind of agree but
>Fewer kids dead of starvation

>>3284408
According to people involved, such as Andres Pascal Allende, the MIR wasn't being armed because it feared a coup, but because it wanted to prepare a coup itself.

They didn't feared a right-wing coup, which is why they were catched up unaware when it actually happened and were so easily crushed.

>>3284553

The natural consequence of communism:

http://www.holodomorct.org/accounts.html

Wealthy peasants were exiled into Siberia even before Holodomor during the “collectivization”. Communists came, collected everything. Children were crying beaten for that with the boots. It is terrifying to recall what happened. It was so dreadful that every day became engraved in my memory. People were lying everywhere as dead flies. The stench was awful. Many of our neighbors and acquaintances from our street died.

I have no idea how I managed to survive and stay alive. In 1933 we tried to survive the best we could. We collected grass, goose-foot, burdocks, rotten potatoes and made pancakes, soups from putrid beans or nettles.

Collected gley from the trees and ate it, ate sparrows, pigeons, cats, dead and live dogs. When there was still cattle, it was eaten first, then - the domestic animals. Some were eating their own children, I would have never been able to eat my child. One of our neighbours came home when her husband, suffering from severe starvation ate their own baby-daughter. This woman went crazy.

People were drinking a lot of water to fill stomachs, that is why the bellies and legs were swollen, the skin was swelling from the water as well. At that time the punishment for a stolen handful of grain was 5 years of prison. One was not allowed to go into the fields, the sparrows were pecking grain, though people were not allowed."

>>3284605
>>3284553

See also, Venezuela today, Mao's China, DPRK.

>>3284605
Chile sounds awful

>>3282704
>all these buttblasted /leftypol/ cucks

Good post

>>3284424
>>3284426

No doubt difficult decisions had to be taken, unsavoury acts carried out to prevent the far greater tragedy of a communist takeover.

Do you want to mention the torture and murder carried out by the Soviet Union, Mao's China, Cuba, DPRK, Nazi Germany etc? The violence and mass famine?

What Pinochet did in contrast was limited and proportionate, and successful in preventing a humanitarian disaster.

>>3284456
>pretending the 1982 crisis was purely the result of exogenous factors, even though Chile was far more affected than any other country in the continent due to Pinochet's incompetence, a fact widely attested by economists
>not knowing the Christian Democrats were part of the center-left Concertacion coalition, along with the Socialist Party and social-democrats, and were never part of the conservative coalition
>"Nobody has yet reformed the economy", even though there were profound changes in monetary policy, fiscal policy, the role of the public sector and social programs since the return of democracy
>taking credit for growth under center-left Concertacion governments

lol

>>3283724
>>3284575

>he believes Plan Z was real

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*breathes in*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>3282517
does anyone have that Pinochet meme with Hitler being put in the helicopter because of NationalSOCIALSIM?

>>3282517
he stole public money (6 million dollars) and was actually condemned by a judge
also there was something about him and bolivian dictators sending cocaine to the USA

>>3285139
Because ancaps and some poltards are autistic enough to believe Pinochet was a fascist when he just was an american puppet dictator.

>>3285258
>/pol/tards think he was fascist
You've clearly never lurked on /pol/ lmao. He is an ancap's wet dream, not a fascist's.

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>>3286119
I said some of them but not all

>>3285118
>He thinks communist militias
>In South America
>Arming themselves is false when Cubans actually did infiltrate Chile after Allende opened relations
>Just like how Cuba did that EVERYWHERE around Latin America and South America

Ha..haha...hahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAGAHAH OOOOH GOD NO AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH*breathes*…..OHH...nononoHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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>>3282704
This

>>3282517
>Pachacuti

Who's That Pokemon?

>>3286187
There was no leftist coup in the making, it was literally made up by Pinochet to justify his dictatorship (the so-called Plan Z). This is universally agreed by historians.

This is /his/, faggot, perhaps >>>/x/ may be more of your liking.

>>3286245
Fuck off, pedo

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>>3286313
>There was no leftist coup in the making

Because lefties like revolutions not coups

>>3286344
Called whatever you want, you dumb nigger, there was no planned armed takeover by leftist forces.

Getting rid of filth is always positive.

>>3286313
>There was no coup
That's a weird way to spell there was a building revolution being aided in by Cuba. Because Cuba did that all the goddamn time and opening relations with Cuba is a major red flag

>>3286358
>There was no plan
*Definitely was a plan as you had leftist politicians call for an armed conflict

>>3282898
It means your fucking a mentally chalenged individual

>>3286421
>>3286426
>>>/x/

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>>3282981
But Americanization/Free market capitalism do suck out the culture of the people

>>3284825
>forced to have sex with her father and brother
>using animals

That is Cheka-tier brutality you stupid faggot. It wasn't justified, Pinochet could have just made a coup d'etat, supress leftist (killing some in the course since accidents happen) and then restoring democracy. There wasn't need to kill that many people who just opposed his dictatorship.

>>3286446
>>/int/
>Unironically thinks that Allende was demsoc
Lmao

>>3282517
>Pachacuti
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachacuti#In_popular_culture

>>3284825
If Pinochet's gang had the strength to do what they did, then they also almost certainly had the strength to just put their political opponents in prison for a while and not use sadistic torture and rape against them.

>>3283724
>le Cuban conspiracy
*tips revisionism*

>>3284081
t. PragerU sycophant who listens to Yuri Bezmenov

>>3284344
*revisionism intensifies*

>>3284605
>>3284825
>Allende was literally Stalin
If Lenin's Cheka had killed fewer people, you'd still paint them as 100x worse than Pinochet, and you know it.

>>3284609
>memezuela
>socialist

>>3286782
>>3286790
>revisionism

more like heresy, amirite?

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>>3282704
fpbp

>>3285118
If Chavez had been deposed in 2002, people would also be saying that attempts by Cuba into making Venezuela a virtual colony were just conspiracy theories.

Just look how the whole thing turned out.

>>3286344
>Argentina
>ERP and not Montoneros

The Montoneros was one of the most impressive political-military apparatus ever built in the Western world. It was like Hezbollah in Lebanon, a mixture of political organization with military forces, financed by shady business like kidnapping and drug trafficking.

Videla did nothing wrong.

The dictatorship saved the country from communism.

>>3283724
>Selling country yo Cuba
>Cuban agents
Imagine being so butthurt about communism that you think that a small irrelevant caribbean shithole is some sort of neo-KGB on steroids

>>3287693
Imagine knowing so little about Latin American history (or only knowing left-wing propaganda) that you actually believe Cuba is just another small irrelevant Caribbean shithole instead of being the last country in the world with an intelligence service trained both by the KGB and the Stasi, and that not even the CIA has ever managed to infiltrate.

I mean, they even use the same techniques as the USSR still.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/09/politics/us-cuba-acoustic-attack-embassy/index.html

Same methods have been used by the Russians in the past, it is probably a eavesdropping device.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3509929/

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1274748

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)

Now if you think a country with a secret service competent enough to mess with the U.S. and infiltrate the U.S. government (see Ana Montes and Kendall Myers) what do you imagine they can do to sympathetic left-wing governments in Latin America with hilariously shitty intelligence services?

>>3288893
Don't bother. It's probably a united statian subhuman.

>>3282898

She sounds like a keeper

>>3286601
Wow 2 days after making this thread someone finally took my obvious bait

>>3288893
a few meme pink panther style listening devices from the 50s doesn't mean they are in direct control over every left wing party in south america

>>3291298
You should acquaint yourself with Manuel Piñeiro, the spymaster of Cuba, from the 1970s to the 1990s he was head of the Americas Department of the Cuban intelligence service, whose job was exactly to control the most important left-wing movements in Latin America.

They diverted funds from the kidnappings of the Montoneros to the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, flooded El Salvador with firearms in support of the FMLN, presented the sword of Bolíviar, stolen by the M-19 in Colombia to Fidel Castro (no, it wasn't given to Pablo Escobar, that was just an invention of that series), groomed left-wing politicians in South America like Hugo Chávez in Venezuela and Lula in Brazil and so on

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>>3292156

>>3292876
what does your image have to do with what he just posted?

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>>3292876
Oh man here we go

>>3286461

People might abandon their culture for materialism. At least it beats the hell out of Communism's 'cultural revolutions.'

>>3283035

Ah, Word Salad and the Strawman, the buddy cop duo of the summer!

>>3292876
are you implying shit like the holodomor and Tienanmen square massacre are common occurrences in the UK and US?

>>3294019
I can only imagine what kind of mental gymnastics you did to get to dad conclusion.

>>3294019
>>3292892
>>3293973
I was saying that the supposed """operations""" of Cuban intelligence services pale in comparison to those of US intelligence services.

>>3293973
>EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T WORLD COMMUNISM = CAPITALISM

This is what Communists actually believe

>>3294048

Not to mention

>see, all of the damage that effectively the entire world did in 500 years is roughly double what less regimes than you can count on one hand did over 80 years. Who's the real monster here, eh?

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>>3294048
>This is what Communists actually believe

yes

>>3294026
>dad

Not worry anon, is ok to have daddy issues

>>3294129

>this is capitalism's fault because I say so

Yes, everyone knows the communists were all about saving the third world. Well, they would have been if they weren't busy dying of hunger themselves. That was probably the capitalists' fault too though.

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>>3294129

>It's this argument again.

Those deaths are being prevented thanks to capitalism.

Poverty is the natural state of man. Access to free markets, strong institutions that defend property rights and liberal societies that encourage difference of thought and innovation raise him from that poverty.

>>3294193
>liberal societies that encourage difference of thought
lmao

>>3294215

>Britain had Milton and JS Mill.
>Home of the industrial revolution

>America has the first amendment
>Most innovative society in the world to date.

What's your point?

>>3294233

Only a communist would encourage difference of thought, which is ironic considering the only correct thought is the eternal science of Marx, but we still like variety. Can you say the same, porky!?

>>3294249

I'm sorry, you were saying?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Soviet_Union

A capitalist society will happily accept communes and worker owned co-operatives. Will a communist society allow people to opt out? Why did they build a massive wall to stop people from leaving?

>>3294284

Not actually that guy, just a sarcastic shitposter. Of course communism is an absolutist doctrine, and so alternative thought is anathema.

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>>3294249
> The eternal science of Marx
>Da porkys

Mfw leftypol is a thing is /his/

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Based Pinochet, the man who saved Chile.

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>>3282704
Do it again, Helicopter Man

>>3286461
We all dressed in colorful ethnic costumes before America came along

>>3286344
I like how the author of that MSpaint masterpiece didn't had a a chilean guerrilla so he just painted the country red to prove his point.

>>3283209
They weren't innocent.

>>3296279
A lot of them were.

Not even commies if that was your argument.

The only thing Pinochet did wrong was fall out of power.

>>3294048
>everything bad that happened in "communist" countries is because of communism
>nothing bad that happened in capitalist countries had anything to do with capitalism

>>3295982
saved it from becoming a global power like china.

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>>3299671

That's not true.

Apparently capitalism causes natural disasters now.

>>3301711
>cut emergency services and safety protocols in the name of austerity and profits
>shit happens
>Things go really bad due to poor emergency services and safety protocols
>lol it was an accident! :^)
The people who built Greenfell Tower may not have started the fire, but they were the reason the fire got that big and claimed that many lives

>>3301711
Don't forget that hurricanes are racist because they only happen in nigger cities like New Orleans, Houston and Miami.

>>3301711
>>3301727
This cunt is immensely retarded. If it's CAPITALISM that causes disasters, does socialism or feudalism handle them better? Did Chernobyl not happen? Norilsk? Ivanovo tornado outbreak?

>>3301751
As I already said, captialism doesn't cause the fire in Greenfell, but made it the disaster that it is now.

>Literal whataboutism
Wew lads. You can chuck Chernobyl to rampant imcomptence (and inexperience) and I would agree, but it is easier to swallow than Greenfell's slashing of safety measures in pursuit of profit.

>>3301727

Ah yes, Grenfell tower. A council building providing council housing, and it's somehow a failure of capitalism.

>>3301792
After years of privatization and slashed funding in the name of austerity? Yes

>>3282898
Ayn Rand and Milton Freidmen

>>3301802

>Austerity

Aka living within your means.

>>3301810
>implying a government's budget is the same as your wallet

>>3301830

Implying government can get out of the basic rule that lenders will only lend as long as they have faith they will be repaid anymore than you or I can.

>>3301792
Not him but Grefnell Tower is a direct example of cutting costs for higher profit, along with the industry being almost completely unregulated in UK. The company put in cheaper panels than the ones they advertised to the council, even.

>>3293973
>Nazi terror is capitalism
>The Death of Indigenous Americans from Biological factors aka plague is due to capitalism
>The First world war is due to capitalism and not imperialism in spite of capitalism as literally stock market closed because of it
>Japan imperialism is be cause of capitalism and not imperialism as stated earlier
>cite the kuomingtang massacre of 300000 people in Taiwan without siting the death tolls on the mainland post PRC takeover
>Think the Shah of Iran regime was a bad thing
>talk about the algerian war without the context that USSR promoted revolts in the area is what sparked the whole war in the first place
>blame Capitalism for the Iran-Iraq war but fail to actaully talk abou the Six-days war out of shame of the failed attack from the commie Arab that was shilled by the USSR
fucking kek it quote things that aren't remotely related to capitalism and yet miss a fuckload of things that are actually related to capitalism.

>>3282898
The first one is Ayn Rand.

>>3301711
they know

shut it down

>>3301886

I'm glad you understand what happened without having to go through the expense of an expensive independent judicial enquiry.

>>3282704
>All these angry /leftycucks/
They will get the helicopter ride soon.

>>3302074
As if that does anything in the end. Call me when the Hillsbourgh disaster's justice is paid in full. And yes that includes the Sun

>>3302074
I understand what happened because they published that the cladding was make of aluminium sheets filled with pluyurethene foam or PUR foam which is flammable and it's use is forbidden on highrises throughout Europe. You couldn't put that shit on a building taller than a couple of stories even in Eastern Europe, let alone in EU.

>>3282704
Based

>>3282874
At my (public) college, we were tought that Milton Friedman was basicall the devil.

>>3282704
>>3285139
>>3295992
>>3302102

For fuck sake, the helicopter rides aka Death Flights were implemented by the ARGENTINIAN military junta, not Pinochet. Stop blaming that shit on us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights

>>3303577
The French invented them, then taught them to Argentina.