State Borders and Ethnicity

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>>3281591
Geopolitics.
Tho i personally believe that the right of selfdetermination should be absolute, and stand by it firmly; it's not that hard to understand why generally foreign powers don't like this. Because it can get messy. Countries like to hold onto their borders or to certain strategic geographic location (example being the recent India-China standoff, or say historically Gibraltar).
This really gets me pissed in regards to the relatively recent history of the Balkans.
The sheer hypocrisy from the international community in regards to Bosnia and Kosovo. By God, you can't just use double standards. Bosnia is an incredibly dysfunctional country. But they let Kosovo separate from Serbia. Imagine how dysfunctional Serbia would be politically if there were 2 million Albanians voting? But then again, what of the Serbian populated areas in Kosovo (at least the north should be given back to Serbia).
Just end this misery, ffs, and let the people live in the countries that they want to live in.

>>3281620
Call me crazy, but Belgium and the Netherlands, as well as India and Pakistan have borders that aren't a straight line, but follow county's ethnicity/loyalty.
Why can't a Bosnian village "inside" Serbia be nationally Bosnian?

>>3281591

1. States do NOT like giving up territory for any reason.

2. Ethnicities are not neatly distributed so that you can draw lines between them. That is the fundamental problem of nation states. The only ways to correct it are either to establish a shit ton of enclaves within the larger states - which makes life miserable for everyone involved - or ethnic cleansing.

People pile a lot of shit on multiculturalism, but forget that the multicultural ideal is the result of people looking at nation states over the past century and a half and going "Whoa, okay this shit is not working right."

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>>3281591
>Why don't we just draw the borders along ethnic lines as they stand, and all just enforce that for the most peace?

I'm not against it

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>>3281701
Better than having a fucking Mufti as the head of the parliament's committee on education, science and technological development

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>>3281723
Y-DNA =/= Ethnicity

>>3281706
How are nationstates not working? Other countries do enclaves all the time.

>>3281733
Which country has this Mufti?

>>3281755
Serbia.
http://www.parlament.gov.rs/national-assembly/composition/members-of-parliament.986.488.html
Occupation
theologian

Committee membership
Committee on Education, Science, Technological Development and the Information Society (Chairperson)

>>3281778
How I'm the dick do Serbs let a Muslim run anything?

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>>3281795
We've also had a token Muslim in the executive since 2000. He just jumps ship and joins the ruling coalition every time.

>>3281746
>How are nationstates not working? Other countries do enclaves all the time.
Most nation states accept minorities as their own citizens and are in essence not *pure* nation states anymore.

>>3281795
Don't let the memes fool you, we've still got a LOT of Muslims hanging around.

>>3281591
>a people claims to be a separated ethnicity, wants their own state
>the state and the dominant ethnicity doesn't consider the others to be an actual separated ethnicity

What now, bitch?

>>3281746
>Other countries do enclaves all the time.
They're reasons for conflicts all the time.

Also, ethnic distributions are neither uniform, nor static. Do you want to redraw borders all the time?

>>3281873
I was suggesting they be "fixed" and then "frozen"

>>3281831
Ethnicity is determined by things like language, culture, religion, and a demonstrable shared and distinct history.

>>3281818
That shows a change of policy, not a failure

>>3281888
They can be frozen when all humans have subzero body temperatures. Until then, you can't keep ethnic distributions from changing.

>>3281896
Make a policy to not have foreigners make their own villages in your borders

>>3281591
>Why don't we just draw the borders along ethnic lines
why dont we draw them along religious lines
>I get that there are other reasons for borders to fall as they do, but it seems like wherever there is an ethnic minority in another country, there ends up being some conflict.
not always
no country is safe from conflict and internal strife at all times - be it ethnic, religious, class and those sometimes are interwoven
you will always have to do ethnic cleansing or assimilation of some group of people
not to mention the logistic difficulties involved in most cases you can imagine

it also depends on the minorities and their composition
a country of 80-20% where the 20% are a homogeneous minority will have a harder time assimilating them, then if the 20% are all kinds of different people who effectively don't have any way to have a united identity other than 'non-majority', but if a country is 80 5 5 5 5% then it's a different story

it also depends on how similar the minority and majority are - if minorities are not visible, then it's no biggie at least in the long run

>>3281912
Doesn't even take foreign influences for an ethnicity to stop being monolithic to a point of its constituents being considered seperate entities. It happens automatically.

The only way to stop it is to kill your whole population.

>>3281993
>It happens automatically.
at least it use to happen automatically when the world was less globalized
before people in different regions of a 'state' could barely understand eachother and almost never moved to test their abilities to understand one another

now countries are pretty homogenized due to fast travel, communication and the like

>>3282003
In a globalized world, preventing people from moving near or over the border wouldn't do much then.

You'd have to cut all communications, which is equally impossible as preventing the differentiation in a non-globalized society.
It doesn't even work out for China,with their Great Firewall.

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>>3281591
I rarely see OP's pic without this

>>3282728
they had it coming
should've been deported to siberia desu