How comes 100.000 Persians couldn't defeat 300 Spartans?

>>3268207
Spartans were better trained, had better equipment, and had intense loyalty to their kingdom. They also chose a small pass where the Persian advantage of numbers was negated.

Ah, 300, my favorite historical documentary.

>>3268207
Because the spartans had 10000 allies and the best defensive terrain one could possibly hope for, coupled with a a style of warfare and level of equipment far superior to their enemies

Besides that the persians did defeat them

>>3268207
...Although there were 300 Spartans present at the defense of Thermopylae, there were at least 4000 allies involved on the first two days and 1500 men involved in the fatal last stand. Still a tiny figure compared to the forces against them, but more than the legend which forgets some contributors. Modern militaries have fetishized the slave murdering Spartans, and used the myth of the 300 as a central prop...."

>>3268224
what’s interesting is most of the popular meme phrases from the movie were documented in real history
fighting in the shade, dining in hell, spartan women giving birth to spartan men - it was all legit quotes

>>3268228
A lot of the stuff in the movie occurred in real life, it was just presented in a massively over stylised way

Like throwing the Persians down that pit, the Spartans actually threw them in a well but the same basic event took place

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>>3268207
Yes they were 300 Spartan Warriors.

And their Followers (i forgot the word the greeks actually used for the knave-like assistant every Spartan soldier had.) Then there were non-citizen Soldiers from the Area and a few thousand Soldiers from other Greek nations and other auxiliary.

>>3268219
tech level was similar. Training and terrain were the key.

But they did defeat 300 Spartans
>>3268232
>but the same basic event took place
Not even. This took place in the second invasion. Persia didn't send envoys asking for land and water for the second invasion

>>3268207
Why are Persians portrayed as ebil mystical barbarians in the movie?

It was Greeks that were shit-eating barbarians compared to Persians.

>>3268345
I think it's based off a comic book. It's unnecessary as it is obvious but the director has admitted that the movie isn't supposed to be historically accurate.

because that's a movie

>>3268224
>in the end it was revealed that the entire movie was said by the perspective of the sole survivor
>Greeks are known to overrate their stories and add bunch of shit to them
It really is the most historically accurate movie ever.

They did, and there were more than 300 Spartans. There just specifically were 300 Spartans there also who began the stand-off.

They were defeated, they were just a distraction.

>>3268228
Quotes by outsiders, you fool.

>>3268502
It would've been fun if when the camera pans out at the end to reveal Faramir and the army they all would've been fat middleaged muddy mustachioed turks huddling around a shitty campfire.

>>3268515
>American humour

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>>3268207
Meanwhile, the actual 300

>>3268345
Hello Mr.Green.

>>3268207
there were lots of allies, they had a great strategic vantage point and the phalanx is generally superior than whatever the persians had in store.

stop asking stupid questions, the persians did defeat the spartans and they took athens. don't do your research with (((Hollywood))), buddy

>>3268228
>it was all legit quotes
there are no primary sources about Thermopylae

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>>3268561
I prefer this one

>>3268599
Sometimes Mr. Green is right.

The Spartans were barbarians who contributed nothing to civilization. All they did was contribute 300 soldiers to a much larger fighting force so that the Athenians could actually strike the killing blow at Salamis.

The Spartans were just arrogant, useless faggots.

>>3268207
Did Spartans believe in hell? Why would they dine in hell, as a great warrior isn't more logical that you would dine with the gods?

>>3268616
>wow, the spanish can commit war crimes

Real new shit right here.

>>3268627
It was hades, the greeks believed everybody who died went to hades, the god of the underworld.

The real comment said by king Leonidas would have meant something like there was no escape, and that they had to die in the battlefield soon.

>>3268561
350:1 K/D ratio, dayum

>>3268207
but they did, also there were like 8000 greeks there and their defeat lead to the almost destruction of Athens

>>3268633
what a terrible post

>>3268561

>literally the battle of the hornburg
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51oEk21ax5A&t=159s

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Because the Persians were outnumbered 3 to one

>http://www.justzagreb.com/2015/07/nikola-subic-zrinski-the-man-who-saved-europe-and-got-an-awesome-park-in-zagreb/1271/

>They charged the vast army head on, Zrinski leading the attack, cutting trough the ranks with his sabre. He was shot three times before he fell to the ground. His most loyal knights surrounded his corpse and defended it until death.
>Out of 2500 men defending Siget, only four survived. Around 30 000 ottomans lost their lives during the siege.

>>3268207
They did.

The older propaganda is, the more accepted it becomes.

>>3268620
You realize your conception of Sparta is colored solely by Attic propaganda, right?

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>>3268345
To make them resemble modern Muslim terrorists

>>3268207
>100.000 Persians

No sweetie. It was a multicultural army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Persian_invasion_of_Greece#Size_of_the_Persian_forces

>Infantry from 47 ethnic groups[Note 3], including; Medes, Cissians, Hyrcanians,[38] Assyrians, Chaldeans,[39] Bactrians, Sacae,[40] Indians,[41] Arians, Parthians, Chorasmians, Sogdians, Gandarians, Dadicae,[42] Caspians, Sarangae, Pactyes,[43] Utians, Mycians, Paricanians,[44] Arabians, Ethiopians of Africa,[45] Ethiopians of Baluchistan,[46] Libyans,[47] Paphlagonians, Ligyes, Matieni, Mariandyni, Cappadocians,[48] Phrygians, Armenians,[49] Lydians, Mysians,[50] Asian Thracians,[51] Lasonii, Milyae,[52] Moschi, Tibareni, Macrones, Mossynoeci,[53] Mares, Colchians, Alarodians, Saspirians[54] and Red Sea islanders.[55]

>>3268207
>couldn't defeat
They did though.

>>3268561
Didn't the Spartans also take a thousand or so slaves with them? Helots: once again history has cucked them, but not before they managed to repeatedly cuckold the Spartans while they were away on campaigns.

>characters speaking British English and not Ancient Greek
Dropped

>>3268225
This

>>3268345
>>3268419
Because it's a story within a story, a story told by a spartan to his fella Spartans. When telling a story why wouldn't you describe your enemies as monsters?

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hm?

are you the same sort of person who thinks the Soviets didn't win the Winter War?

>>3268620
You said Greeks, not Spartans. Spartans were not the only Greeks. Greek accomplishments are undeniable, and calling them "shit-eating barbarians" is inaccurate in every way.

Not that you're right about the Spartans.

>>3268207
1. the Greeks started with about 7000 soldiers
2. 1000 soldiers from a different city state was with them for the last stand.
3. the 300+1000 still lost

>>3268303
Helots

>>3269511
>helots
>allowed on the battlefield
wew

They were definitely perioikoi but there was a more specific name for the role anon talked about.

>>3269539
My bad

it was 7k vs 40-50k max

an impressive showing but not necessarily impossible. People have this idea that it was hundreds of thousands of slaves that sucked, but this is the opposite of the truth. It was about at most about 50k-as many troops as an empire could manage at this point in history- and they were all professional soldiers.

The greeks were less professional ironically, the spartans were there but most greek armies were a bunch of citizen soldiers with basic training. Thats right, the persians were actually more professional than the greeks other than the spartans, the greeks just had better equipment.

This was the professional army built by Cyrus the Great, the army that brought down the assyrian empire and took its place. We dont know exact details but they were the most professional army in the world at the time, thats why they were the aggressors and the favorites to win. This was one of the first massive sea invasions in history, you need some serious professionalism to move 50k troops across the sea into a foreign continent at this point in history.

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>>3269373
>2.124.000(Herodotus)

>>3268627
The Greek belief was that the vast, vast majority of people would end up in the fields of Asphodel, a wasteland, not really heaven or hell, more just a featureless eternity of nothing. Some heroes went to Elysium, but that group was incredibly select.

>>3268620
Spartan military formations we're adopted by many empires, republics, and civilizations to come. Also Spartan work out regines were copied by Athenians.

>>3269212
You have any idea how much it costs to hire scholars well versed in ancient tongues to teach actors how to speak and read these languages? A large portion of Passion Of Christ's budget went to hiring linguists. Not that it isn't worth it, but it's extremely costly for something that essentially establishes a bit more realism.

>>3270118
yeah well the thebans improved on spartan tactics, beat them at their own game, and inspired the phalanx army Philip and Alexander would use, so thebans are far more relevant to the future of phalanx warfare than the spartans were.

>>3268228
"Real history"

>>3270137
>yeah well the thebans improved on spartan tactics


......Spartan tactics. Keyword sweetie, SPARTAN tactics, what's your point?

>>3268345
Because the writer literally hates iranians and because the purpose of the comic is to transform the event into a Middle East vs West clash of civilizations bullshit, full of propaganda.

>>3268502
>>3269371
Not even greek sources are that extreme though. 300 is just bullshit fed by modern tensions, not past ones.

>>3270146
are you implying spartans invented phalanx warfare? Because they didnt. The only innovation the spartans introduced was on the individual level, the actual tactics were identical to other greek states, they were just better at it until the thebans came along, actually changed the tactics, and won because of those tactics (the tactic in question is the concept of extremely deep formations that could push through smaller ones, just like Philip's pike phalanx. Almost like he got the idea from the thebans.

Welcome to retard movie/TV history central, /his/.

>>3268207
They feared the faggot warrior

>>3268345
t. John Green

>>3270158
thats kinda what it was though, the persian army was distinctly multiethnic, they just grabbed all the armies around the middle east and africa and just clumped them together into one invasion force, but they were still all distinct from each other. To greeks, it would look like your enemy pulled men from literally all over the known world. Every type of ancient person was in the persian army, including greeks.

>>3268627
The translators thought the Americans too retarded to understand 'hades' so they went with 'hell'.

>>3268561

>bend it like bek

>>3268935
Medes are literally the same as Persians, same with the Parthians. Sogdians are also Iranian.

>>3269195
Yes. There was also a significant force of Thebans there too.

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>>3269539
Oikos

>>3271965
>same

They were not the same, it's like saying italians and french are the same.

>>3271795
Except what you said has nothing to do with the post you awnser to. No, a multicultural army including greeks attacking greece doesn't constitute a "clash of civilizations".

>>3271998
well it does because its a bunch of civilizations from all over the middle east and europe clashing, regardless of the who is on what side. Its a diverse collection of cultures in a mixed bag, thats what a clash of civilization is. Its never white and black but nothing is.

>>3272006
>civilization means culture
>people who happen to belong to civilizations and cultures being in a war means that this war is a clash of civilizations

Get out. Persians didn't give a fuck about cultural let alone civilizational conflict. Greeks didn't so much either looking at their actions during and after the war.

>>3268345
>t. Alireza Losangeleszahdeh

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>>3268633
>Using modern day Western morality on people that lived 500 years ago
I shiggy you guys don't commit the same diggy...

>>3272049

Why do you keep repeating this?

>>3268207
PHALANX FORMATION DESTROYS THE WEAK PERSIAN ARMY, THEY DIDNT EVEN ADAPT TO USE PHALAX TROOPS TO COUNTER TH GREEK ADVANTAGE

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>>3268345
>They are portrayed as barbarians
Did you just not watch the part of the film where the Persians called Leonidas savages and where the scenes of Persia we're in massive sprawling urban centers of commerce and technological development?

The Spartans WERE the savages in the film.

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>>3268616
>F-fucking eurangatangs

>>3272179
>called Leonidas savages
*Called Spartans savages

>>3270169
It's not meant to be "greek sources" It's meant to be a sole survivor telling a bunch of bullshit to his allies before another battle to raise their spirits. Second movie ruined this though.

>>3272143
Bullshit logic
>wow its so fucking terrible that these foreign invaders pillage our cities, massacre our people, and rape our women
>were going to do the exact same shit when we invade someone btw
People in the past were fully aware of the immoral actions they were committing, but did it anyways because they thought they could get away with it.

>>3271984
>home
?

>>3268561
armenian propaganda

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>>3272334
Armenians must not have to try very hard to make propaganda since it's all true.

>>3268207
>How comes 100.000 Persians couldn't defeat 300 Spartans?
>Actual serious responses agreeing

1. They did defeat the Spartans, you uneducated fucks.
2. There were less than 100,000 persians fighting.
3. There were more than 300 greeks fighting.

>>3272252
Show me a power or civilization that didn't pillage cities or massacre people when it came to war? There were no Hague conventions nor were there any established rules of war. Everybody involved in wars with each other at those times did terrible shit to one another.
>Mongols and the Timurid dynasty committed genocide by our standards
>Aztecs were super dicks to their neighbors which is why the Spanish were not short of allies
>The french killed millions of their own because Huguenots
>Ottomans forcefully kidnapped and converted Eastern European children to Islam because Janissary system
>Catholics and Protestants killed each other by the millions during the thirty year war
This was the way the world was back then and the only way to understand the reason behind it was to look at it from their perspective.

>>3269373
>>3270051
>Herodotus
>literally "a guy told a guy told his son told me, so I wrote it"
He even says so in his books, he says these are stories people told me, I have no fucking clue if its true or not.

>>3268207
Last I checked, they did.

>>3268345

To quote the rifftrax of the movie, their finale joke
>Remember, only you can prevent sickly children from diluting the strength of our race. FREEDOM!

>>3272422
I prefer the joke for when the Spartans come across the dying kid at the town the Persians destroyed. “Those monsters! Letting this puny child live for eight years instead of killing it in infancy!”

>>3272412
>Show me a power or civilization that didn't pillage cities or massacre people when it came to war?

The French. They like cities so much, they surrender if theirs is threatened.
Contrast with Russia in the same period. Paris could've been Stalingrad, and France could've fought for every street and building, but they didn't want to ruin civilization and instead said "we'll give them those 1-2 provinces they want and sign peace, fuck it".

France is civilized. Russia is not. Russia values independence and nationalism more than civilization, and will destroy civilization to gain freedom.

>>3272425
Anon he's asking which civilization doesn't pillage OTHER people's cities

>>3268303
equipment level was not equal at all anon
The Spartiates had far greater (metal) protection and iron arms, spears went straight through those wicker shields. Even the Persian immortals weren't much better armoured than their regular army

>>3272431
The French again, they only take money and art.

>>3272433
I think you'll find they weren't so kind in Vietnam back when they called it Indochina.

>>3272432
Immortals were just regulars, not that they were any special troops.

>have X number of regulars
>when some die, add new dudes until you have X
>"whoa these guys are always X in number, they can't die :o"

The immortals were only something like policemen, or bodyguards, or whatever.
They were professional brutes, but they were NOT a special force.

>>3272437
I think you'll find Vietnam didn't have cities or "civilization" as perceived at the time.
If they were seen as equals, they would've been treated as equals by the French, who are the eternal good guys of history.

>>3270051
>>3272415
Herodotus is right about literally everything
>>3272438
I know that anon, they are the most elite Persian force I know of which fought at Thermopylae. Who's above them?

>>3272425
France didn't end up like Stalingrad because of Dietrich von Choltitz. Once you surrender to enemies they can pretty much do with you as they see fit.
>Russians are savages because they didn't surrender
>Completely disregard the fact that Hitler thought of Slavs as Untermenschen and wanted to remove them for Lebensraum
Yeah, fuck them for not submitting to genocide n shit!

>>3272441
>it doesn't count when we do it to subhumans
You make Hilaire Belloc proud

>>3272442
>Who's above them?
Greek mercenaries, anatolian greeks, etc.
They were a small in number, metal armed and armored, drilled force.

>>3268207
>they were not 300 spartands
>the persians won

>THIS
>IS
>SPARTA

Wait is /his/ historically illiterate to the point you have to tell them herodotus is an untrustworthy source?

>>3272637
Why would herodotus be an untrustworthy source when approached with thé right sceptiscism?

>>3272637
If it vaguely supports "white" identity and euro-centrism, /his/ likes it.

>>3272406
Not impressive. There was literally no fight, all the Ottoman casualties were from the poor weather

>>3272637
>>3272643
see >>3272415
/his/ literally shed light on why Herodotus gave such a huge figure but you would rather meme

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>>3272771
Thanks for the heads up, familia.

>>3268225
7000 Greeks at Thermopylae, not 10000

>>3272788
Whoops, you're right. It's about 4,800 according to Herodotus

>>3268224
I loved the historical war elephants

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>>3272761
(You)

>>3268345
>Why are Persians portrayed as ebil mystical barbarians in the movie?
They were barbarians by the very Greek definition.