Are most "monsters" based on history?

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They are mostly based on fossils and stories of animals from far away places, yes.
Tons of animals that were once "cryptids" are now found in zoos everywhere. Ie the okapi, gorillas. People really knew nothing about gorillas just 100 years ago.

>>3267908
I read somewhere that the phoenicians killed gorilas

>>3267923
>Semites
Wouldn't doubt it. Sand people are so primitive.

>>3267908
Chupacabra exhibits in zoos when.

>>3267897
that horn is fake af desu

>>3268035
As soon as you catch us one :^)

>>3267923
Read up on Hanno the Navigator.

>>3267897
Unicorns are real.
You have to be a virgin to catch one. They prefer Highland forests. They are still around but very rare, and by the time you are old enough to have the eyes to see one, you are wise enough to let it be and keep it secret.

>>3268269
If Unicorns are Virgin animals, what animals are Chad animals?

>>3267923
yeah in west africa...

>>3267923
yeah in west africa they captured like a bunch of gorillas and brought them back...

>>3267897
No way they had that big horns

>>3268749
Narwals?

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>dragon

>>3267897
>29.000 years ago

At this point australian aboriginies already lived isolated from the rest of human development for 50.000 years.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/19/dig-finds-evidence-of-aboriginal-habitation-up-to-80000-years-ago


Really makes you think.

What did people make of fossils before the renaissance? Did they find dinosaurs and think they are dragons like >>3269280 implies?

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>>3269598
Yeah, some people think that dinosaur bones were the origin of the dragon 'myth'

>it is no joke named Dracorex Hogwartsia

>>3269598
>What did people make of fossils before the renaissance?

the Chinese used to grind the fossils they found into make my pee pee hard potion because they thought they where dragon bones.

>>3269793
>because they thought they where dragon bones

therefore it logicaly follows they make your dick diamonds for hours on end

>>3269793
Imagine all the shit lost because of idiot asians.

>>3267908
>stories of animals
Funny how that happens.
>Icelandic has nowadays two words that are, to some extent, used as synonyms for the same exotic animal, the camel, and it has had them at least since the second half of the 13th century. Although both terms, úlfaldi (which can also describe a dromedary) and kamel, appear in 13th-century Old Norse texts, comparative etymology reveals us that the former must be an older borrowing as it already appears in Gothic (ulbandus), as well as in cognate languages like Old English (olfend), Old High German (olbenta), Old Saxon (olbundeo), while the latter is, according to blöndal magnússon, a loan from Middle Low German kam.

>One of the earliest examples of Icelandic kamel appears in Karlamagnússaga ok kappa hans as it is preserved in manuscript NRA 61 (Riksarkivet, Oslo). This saga is one of the riddarasögur or chivalric sagas whose tradition started in the Old Norse linguistic area with the translation of French chansons de geste.It is likely to have been borrowed via Old French, i.e. chamel, rather than Middle Low German. If this is true, then the borrowed form was probably of Norman French origins with /ch/ realized as [k] as a similar outcome is to be found in Icelandic kær.

>>3269838
>Icelandic úlfaldi has instead a quite controversial and to some extent obscure etymology as not all scholars agree on the origo prima of this word. Etymological dictionaries like those by Jóhannesson, de Vries and Blöndal Magnússon for Icelandic but also Lehmann for Gothic, describe it as a borrowing from Latin elephas, which had in turn been borrowed from Greek and shifted its meaning from that of ‘elephant’ to ‘camel’ in the Germanic languages. It is nevertheless worth saying that a probable cognate with the meaning ‘elephant’ is present e.g. in Old English, elpend and ylpend, and Old Icelandic, olifant. Moreover, the term ‘elephant’ in ‘make an elephant out of a fly’ is generally translated in Icelandic with ‘úlfaldi’ whereas the Latin version is ‘elephantem ex musca facere’, already recorded by Erasmus of Rotterdam in his Adagia.

>Blažek, quoting Puhvel, does not agree on any connection between Greek and Gothic regarding this word; in fact he writes: Gothic ulbandus “camel” with its counterparts in other Germanic languages is not borrowed from Greek, but it is connected with Hittite huwalpant- “hunchback, humpback” […]. The regular Germanic continuants of the Greek “elephant” are e.g. Old English elpend, ylpend, Old High German elpfant, elafant “elephant”, borrowed via Latin.

>>3267923
They believed they were just hairy black people.

>>3269840
>Gothic ulbandus “camel” with its counterparts in other Germanic languages is not borrowed from Greek, but it is connected with Hittite huwalpant- “hunchback, humpback”

oh, one of THESE guys?

I mean when you think about it, an elephant is basically a monster

>>3269258
The Virgin Unicorn
>Only likes mild temperatures, will hide away if it's too cold
>Has tiny horn that's only good for healing
>Only eats plums and other fruit, can't digest meat
>Is attracted to virgins, but is too shy to make a move on them
>Gets his horn stuck in trees
>Is preyed on by lions

The Chad Narwhal
>Lives in the Arctic, won't live anywhere unless it's freezing cold
>Has huge horn that's for striking fear into the hearts of his enemies
>Only eats the flesh of the finest fish
>Has his way with any scuba diver in the area
>Gets his horn stuck in the hearts of his foes
>Orcas wouldn't even dare to mess with him

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>>3269811
>mfw it turns out that we could have cloned dinosaurs all along, but chinks destoyed all of the genetic material to give themselves erections

>>3268269
I'm a virgin who goes into the woods a lot and you're full of shit, fucking /x/tard.

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>>3269598
IIRC there's a book in which some guy argues that the origin of the gryphon stems from scythians coming across the fossilised remains of triceratopses i.e quadrapeds with beaked faces.

>>3269770
Fucking nerds.

>>3270089
Apperently they'd would also kick the ass of any polar bear.

Victorian zookeepers originally fed gorillas meat and wondered why they kept dying

>>3270367
They are the jedi of the sea.

>>3270536
>>3270089
>>3270367
>>3269258
gtfo rebbit, and never come back.

>>3269811
No more idiotic than Europeans turning mummies into paint and medieval viagra.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunyip

>>3270343
I've heard about this as well

>>3267897
I've always wondered about this sort of thing as well, like the Chinese dragon was based on some ancient slink or newt.

I've also wondered about myths of places and events as well, like Atlantis based on that Greek island civilisation that was destroyed by a volcano, or was all the great flood myths around the world based on the sea level rise after the last ice age, the one that flooded the North Sea, Malacca Strait, etc?

>>3270625
>slink
*skink

>>3270553
>weebl stuff is now reddit
ok

>>3270575
Source?

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Imagine being a Macedon foot soldier, thousands of miles from home, and one of these comes roaring over the horizon.

Easy to see how half-heard stories of "monsters" evolved.

>>3270675
>When you realize Mr Weeble predates reddit.

>>3270625
floods are based on the earth axis chaning and subsequent wobble, which re-distributed the sea.

it happens every few thousand years...and were due for another soon

>>3270688
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummia

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>>3269280
desu if I found pic related in my backyard I wouldn't think "oh yeah this is some kinda ancestral wingless bird"

>>3267931
>Canaanites
>Semites

Pick one

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>>3270343

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>>3271385

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>>3270625
>the great flood myths around the world based on the sea level rise after the last ice age, the one that flooded the North Sea, Malacca Strait, etc?

The envelope keeps getting pushed back farther and farther and mostly likely sites are along river drainage basins, which are under the seas nowadays.

>>3271176
>semitic speakers
>not semite

>>3270753
This elephant is mughal tho, you should have just posted some random indian elephant

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>>3271402

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>>3271464

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>>3271472

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>>3271476

>>3271402
mmm good point that would explain why so many cultures share the same myth, there really was a "flood many cost was lost.

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>>3271487

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>>3271490

>>3271495
awesome maps, do you have for america?

>>3268269
Only secret thing among virgins in the woods are the national porn stashes.

>>3269793
Does the entire Chinese culture revolve around their small penises and the efforts to enlarge them?

Even today, they're grinding up tiger prostates, rhino horns, gorilla hands, ... all for the benefit of their penises and libidos.
Name one endangered species and there's sure to be a Chinese penis enhancement myth attached to it.

Subhuman scum.

>>3271487
>let's see your naval fleet defend you now motherfucker

>>3269770

And there's a species of louse named Strigiphilus garylarsoni. Who gives a shit what nerds do with their obscure species?

>>3270343

I find it hard to believe that ancients would just stumble across a decently preserved dinosaur skull (doing what?). I could buy that cyclops was an imagining based on an elephant/mammoth skull, but this 'mythical creature is extinct species bones being badly misinterpreted' hypothesis seems to get thrown at everything.

>>3267897
How much xp would that thing be worth if you hunted it down with your bros? Seems like a pretty tough guy

>>3272182
Some of it's for the liver or the brain, too. This is like calling online viagra ads the focus of western culture.

>>3267897
possibly

>>3269840
>Blažek, quoting Puhvel
Dr Puhvel I'm praetorian guard

Some Christians think that the biblical behemoth was a dinosaur because he's described as having tail as thick as cedar trees iirc.

>>3267897
Megafauna shows up in aborigines folk tales.
American Indians and Inuits remember mammoths (known as stiff-legged bears),

>>3267897
Yes, the definition of unicorn used to be the Asian rhino, the rhinoceros unicornus iirc. Only in the past few centuries did the definition change to "magical horse with horn on its head".

>>3277566
And they have found fields where tens of thousands of mammoths all died at the same time.

>>3277566
>Megafauna shows up in aborigines folk tales.
No shit, the abos drove said megafauna to extinction.

>>3277663
But it's a difference between human presence at the time and these creatures appearing in folk tales. If I remember those were Megalania, some rhino and Bunyip.

>>3270625
>the great flood
>myth
Oh child, you'll learn soon enough.

>>3270625
Why do you think you are smarter than the ancient Chinese?

>>3277550
Basically. It makes sense too given the description. Leviathan is pretty hard to identify, which causes some to think it's a completely different creature. I believe the Behemoth is a brontosaurus, or of a close relative.

>>3277766
Some sort of underwater sea monster, likely the basis for many oceanfaring tales of underwater sea monsters. Apparently capable of fire underwater, which seems quite unique, although there are substances that ignite in the presence of water.

s4s

>>3277699
Well no, not really. Bears and boars and wolves are part of this part of Swedens folklore, although we had neither until recently, and still no beers.

>>3268749
The Gigabear

>>3270575
>>3270688

They put some much lotion in mummies that people went "holy shit, this mimmy is really good for my skin!"

Here's a massive protip for you. The estimates for the number of species that have existed throughout history are in the billions, most in the single billions but some sources claim as high as 50 billion. It's estimated that 86% of the species alive in the world today are completely undocumented and completely unknown to humanity. You can find literally anything that looks like anything if you spend god knows how much effort digging up fossils.

>>3269793
>People still think that Mao trying to eradicate these superstitions was somehow a bad thing

>>3269956

The smell and overall mannerisms being the reason for confusion.

>>3270343
Correction.

It was ceratopsids that lived in their part of the world, not sure what they had though. The Triceratops was a ceratopsid that is exclusive to what is now called North America.

>>3269770
Hopefully not for long. There are strong indications it is just a juvenile Pachycephalosaurus.

The Bahamas had these legends about little three-toed gremlins whose head spun around, and they found an extinct species of burrowing owl there. I wouldn't be surprised if almost all "mythical" creatures were memories of extinct animals. Maybe there was a crocodilian that lived in southern Europe that helped inspire dragons.

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>>3267897
This seems a simpler explanation. based on a living animal and all.

Also
>capitalizing species name...

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>>3279819
Or this.

Or the fact that people sometimes make things up.

Wasn't it part of folklore that dragons' bodies dissolved after death? I thought I remembered reading about that somewhere.

>>3270625
>>3271402
>>3271490
It all makes sense. It really all makes sense. You always try to build a civilization near water, especially at the outlet of a river basin. At some point, a great flood happens as sea levels rise in many of these areas. Maybe not at once, but in close enough time to one another that all of these numerous religions have flood myths.

Technology is lost and civilization as a whole is set back. I'm not saying they were crazily advanced, or even our level, and most likely didn't reach past industrialization. You'd have to have had a massive near-extinction level event that destroyed all remnants, whether covered or not covered by water today, and returned everyone back to primitive times. Also, going back to the flood myths, that so many of them are explained as a deity angry with societies gone bad, it may even be postulated that there was a widespread rejection of the old ways of life.

It would be incredible to find ancient civilizations that were flourishing far before the set date.

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>>3269770
>>3269598
It doesn't even have to be dinosaur bones. Cyclops were created when someone found a Mastodon skull.
There's a centuries old church in Poland that claimed to have the bones of a dragon that used to live under the town. Turned out it was whale bones.

>>3279828
There are different dragon myths all over the world. It's likely that was part of one.

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>>3279959
I can definitely see it.

>>3279985
>>3279959
Cyclopia is a real condition thought, and even though it rare it was likely to have been seen in humans or animals at some point in history

>>3272335
Mining for gold or other precious minerals.

>>3279824
I never especially thought rhinos made sense as theorigin for unicorns. They look nothing like horses. I could buy a gazelle though.

But like you said, sometimes people just make things up. Unicorns and gryphons dont have to be misinterpretations of real things, they could just be someone's invention.

>>3272335
>I find it hard to believe that ancients would just stumble across a decently preserved dinosaur skull
https://www.google.com/search?q=stumbled+upon+a+fossil

>>3280287
I feel like in all pre-modern cultures there's a degree to which you can differentiate when people actually believed the fantastical things they talked about were real, and when they all sort of assumed they weren't real and just tiptoed around that in their writings about them.

>>3269793
What don't the Chinese think you can use to make an afrodesiac?

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>>3267897

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>>3269598
>What did people make of fossils before the renaissance?

They were just assume what the animal was and sometimes just arranged bones the way they thought they should be. For instance Elephant bones became cyclopes.

>>3279819
>only 63 Javan Rhinos are alive today

I fucking hate eastern medicine and trophy hunters

Most monsters that people imagine are the most boring shit, like just combining two animals together.

>>3269793
It's a shame because the Gobi Desert was a palentologist's wet dream. There were more prehistoric fossils found there than anywhere else on the planet and they were either exposed to the surface or just below it. They've even found intact egg shells and preserved tissue. It makes me wonder just how many amazing would-be discoveries ended up in someone's teacup.

>>3269588
Combined with the fact that Homo sapiens (but not Homo sapien sapiens) might be around 310,000 years old, it makes me wonder if there were any populations who left really early, only to wind up becoming a legit subspecies before dying off.

>>3270232
you have to be female and lure it in with your cunt you dense fuck. you sit still with your legs open and wait for the unicorn to come and stick his horn in you

>>3280938
Is there any chance that there actually was a fairly advanced human civilization (maybe just before industrialization) that experienced a major catastrophe and had to "restart" somewhere in our prehistory?

Or would we have definitely found evidence if this was the case?

>>3270575
those mummies were white so we can do whatever the fuck we want with them

>>3277550
>tail as thick as cedar trees
it says "sways like the cedar tree" so it's not about the size at all

>>3281001
>Egyptians
>white

Before you go "WE" on me

>Egyptians
>black

>>3280990
I'm not sure. Some scientists are saying that agriculture may have started to some extent besides slash and burn stuff in jungle areas around Southeast Asia and Africa, before cities popped up, so if there were ancient primitive cultures who had cities or at least towns, they're most likely long gone. There's also the fringe theory that states humans nearly went extinct after a technological collapse thousands of years ago, but that's not too likely either

https://www.nature.com/articles/nplants201793

Goddamn it, I wish we kept track of our ancient history before 11,000 years ago. So much history, lost to the sands of time.

>>3271487

>Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia, Crete, Cyprus and the Balearic Islands have existed since before the Baltic sea or the English channel

nuts

>>3281035
Is the theory that the Amazon rainforest is manmade related to this idea?

>>3283147
>the theory that the Amazon rainforest is manmade
Tell me about this.

>>3280287
The account of Pliny the Elder, whihc mentions elephant feet, pretty much clenches for me that the animal he was trying to describe, possibly based on how somebody else described it to him, was a rhino.


>Pliny the Elder [1st century CE] (Natural History, Book 8, 31): The unicorn (monocerotem) is the fiercest animal, and it is said that it is impossible to capture one alive. It has the body of a horse, the head of a stag, the feet of an elephant, the tail of a boar, and a single black horn three feet long in the middle of its forehead. Its cry is a deep bellow.

>>3269598
"There were giants in the Earth in those days..."

>>3271404
>germanic speakers
>not german

>>3283602
India has a lot of english speakers, are they all British?

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OC

>>3283522
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/its-now-clear-that-ancient-humans-helped-enrich-the-amazon/518439/

>>3283977
>European invaders
>Amerindian genocide
Do you have no better sources?

>>3280679
Some tripfags from /k/ volunteered to work for African countries as armed rhino guards.
Basically they stand or sit in the vicinity of a rhino and shoot any poachers that come near it.

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>>3283966
>Scavenges
False
>arms that couldn't do anything
False
>Could not run
False
>Hunted only the sick and weak
Literally every predatory animal does this
>Feathers
Up for debate
>Hunted in packs
Unproven
>useless stuby legs
False

>Jaws can unhinge like a snake
[citation needed]
>Tiny arms are good now
>mfw I realize I'm replying to an ironic image seriously

>>3284130
Okay, T-Rex Internet Defense Force. I wonder how you can type with those stubby arms.

>>3284138
Carnosaurs had even stubbier arms, they're also only known because of Disney's Dinosaur, which came out after Jurassic Park. You're the millennials of Dinosauria, T. Rex represents the golden age and nuclear family.
All I can say is at least you're not some Spino loving bolshevik.

>>3284120
bless those /k/ommandos

>>3283988
Okay look I know it's the ((Atlantic)) but it gets across the basic idea.

Here's something better, I think: http://www.historyinorbit.com/amazon-rainforest-man-made/

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>>3283966
> Carno
> Chad

it was a tiny little shit

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>>3284151
Fuck off spino-hating shits

best dino coming through

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>>3284241
> fishes

at least you know your place and don't get in the real carnivores' way

>>3279824
I think it's not so much that they make them up, but that tales travel and change a little bit over time. I heard it from a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy... that short of thing.

Anyone got some of those Megalania vs Abos green texts?

>>3270625
It's not exactly shocking that regions with flood myths tend to have cultural ties to civilisation located next to rivers with a history of flooding.

There's also no reason to think that Atlantis was anything but a made up civilisation to act as a moral tale by Plato.

>>3277550
Why would anyone go dinosaur before considering the more likely elephant etc?

>>3280990
Not as far as I'm aware. Such a complex society would have left some evidence of its existance behind which would've weathered the test of time.

>>3284960
I wonder, some hundreds of millions years in the future, what future archeologists will think finding the remains of our civilization. If dinosaurs are fascinating for us imagine finding concrete evidence of a fossil civilization.

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>>3272145
>awesome maps, do you have for america?

They are cool but I don't know who the author is and can't find any for North or South America.

>>3270089
I lol'd, thank you

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>>3277791
>Bears and boars and wolves are part of this part of Swedens folklore, although we had neither until recently, and still no beers.

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>>3280679
>>only 63 Javan Rhinos are alive today
>I fucking hate eastern medicine and trophy hunters

The danger to threatened species comes from China (for magic penis pills) and MidEast, (knife sheaths and other decorations) not Western hunters, who spend tons of money to legally hunt other game which the only thing keeping those threatened species alive.

The West invented the concepts of conservations and environmentalism and are the driving forces behind them.

If it not for us, non-Europeans would burned the planet to a cinder a long time ago...

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>>3280938

>>3277791
These animals were only locally extinct during a small period of time and could be found on other places

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>>3284960
>Not as far as I'm aware. Such a complex society would have left some evidence of its existance behind which would've weathered the test of time.

As of right now, Gobekli Tepe in Turkey for example, is dated to 11,500 year ago and was inhabited for _2,500 years_.

That didn’t happen over night, with ignorant cave men suddenly building megalithic stone structures. there’s a step by step process involved in this, which means people expanding on earlier people’s ideas.

I think it’s pretty arrogant to suggest there was nothing of civilized value before this, when we’re continually bumping back dates for archeological sites.

>>3278348
>>3270343
It was a Protoceratops. My friend wrote his final year dissertation on the subject.

>>3269598
It depends on the culture. In the Christian west, they were thought to be remnants of creatures from before the great flood. Some people probably thought they were dragons or demons bones, and there's writings by Aristotle attempting to justify fossilization as part of a natural process that turned things to stone, but generally large fossils were just plain not found in the pre-renaissance world. They were just buried too deep.

I don't really believe that humans ever "walked with" weird animals like the OP suggests; but it's possible we have a conception of them through a learned instinct. I liked Jordan Peterson's explanation of Biblical dragons where he suggests that they are the sum total of the mind's instinctual, primal fears in the animal world: the snake's body; the hawk's wings; the (big) cat's claws; the crocodile's jaws.

>>3285763
You know what else is arrogant?

Taking a measurement in the present and pretending you can tell how old something is.

>>3283977

Farming in the Amazon ≠ the Amazon is man made.

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>>3285667

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>>3285863

Vikings would sell narwhal horns to continental Europeans telling them it was actually unicorn horns. Just selling one horn could make a viking set for life.

>>3285784

Are you retarded mate? Carbon dating is rock solid

>>3284238
>tiny little shit
>faster
>twice as tall as a man and many times heavier

k.

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>>3286003
compared to the Rex?
ye, it's a fucking manlet

>>3285778
Don't be a mong, humans had absolutely lived among these animals for hundreds of thousands of years. Sometimes the meaty ones show up with embedded speartips and arrows, and the bones are commonly found in ancient trashpiles with bones covered in stone scrapemarks from where the meat was cleaned off. It's like how whales sometimes turn up with bullets or spears from a hundred years ago in them.

>>3285937
Carbon dating can't go more than 20,000 years back before its accuracy precipitously drops, which is way less than people have been on Earth, mongo.

>>3267897
Of course they are. Vampire myth is based on how the Slavs viewed Jews.

>>3285937
>Thinks they use carbon dating on rocks.

kek

>>3286367
yes and we date different elements for further back

>>3284942
>elephant
>tail as thick as a cedar tree

Totally matches up.

>>3284299
Sure. But Tall Tales are a thing, as well.

>>3284151
Carnotaurs were in Crichton's second book.

>>3284130
>>Scavenges
>False

Almost all predators will scavenge, rexy would have been no exception. I agree though, they could not have been dedicated scavengers -- the idea of large terrestrial dedicated scavengers is a fallacy.

>>arms that couldn't do anything
>False

Tyrannosaurs in genral seemed to be losing their arms over time, so focusing on what the arms were used for is probably a mistake -- they were less important than saving weight up front to devote to larger neck and jaw muscles, a more robust skull and more massive teeth. That said, rex did have more muscular arms than some of his cousins -- exactly why remains a mystery.

>>Could not run
>False

You are correct, sir. Elephants cannot run, as running has been traditionally defines. Ostriches can. Rex leg bones are built like ostrich legs, not like elephant legs. That said, the idea of one chasing a jeep is likely an exaggeration.

>>Hunted only the sick and weak
>Literally every predatory animal does this

Well,not ONLY. But yeah, why fight a healthy opponent if you don't have to.

>>Feathers
>Up for debate

And the debate is swinging away -- as more skin impressions of Tyrannosaurs turn up.

>>Hunted in packs
>Unproven

Correct. But damn, it's a great mental image.

>>useless stuby legs
>False
WTF I don't even... For the weight of the animal, the legs of most Tyrannosaurs are surprisingly gracile.

>>Jaws can unhinge like a snake
>[citation needed]
A common misconception. Most/all theropods had the ability to bow out the lower jaw to a greater or lesser extent -- nothign approaching what snakes can do.

>>Tiny arms are good now
>>mfw I realize I'm replying to an ironic image seriously

Oh. Well, was fun to reply to. But I guess we're getting into /sci/ territory, so I'm off.

>>3286428
Scratch One?

>>3277791
We've had boars, wolves and bears for millennia. Nowadays we even have some homegrown nice beer.