Why did Poland-Lithuania never invade the HRE? Did they fear

>>3266054
>why didn't they create additional enemy located around the only relatively peaceful border?

>>3266054
HRE was an irrelevant shithole fucked in the ass by France. Poles had more important matters to deal with.

>>3266054
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisowczycy#Devils_in_the_Holy_Empire

>>3266083
Why did Poland always have such cool cavalry?

>>3266128
steppe blood

>>3266054
Why would they? What was there to gain? They had enough fighting with the Ottomans, Russians and Swedes.

>>3266408
Glory

>>3266054
No, they feared the russian, mongolian, swedish, and ottoman warriors more.

>>3266054
History isn't some Paradox game where nations expand just because they can, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had plenty reasons to know that war with the HRE was generally a bad idea.

the PLC was a large nation, but not a very powerful or united one, and was easily influenced by neighbor powers who abused its inner government.

With the Polish throne being an elected monarchy as opposed to a hereditary one, Austria, Prussia, Russia, Sweden, and others always attempted to get candidates friendly to themselves elected, with a bulk of them being from various families of the HRE, making the nation for the most part friendly towards the HRE as there were family ties to uphold.

And as part of the Commonwealth's frankly strange parliamentary system, foreign powers also abused this to keep the nation passive in terms of foreign policy, with so much outside influence being exerted on Poland-Lithuania that entire chunks of their territory could just be ceded to Russia/Austria/Prussia with the signing of a few papers. Poland really didn't have the ability to exert its own influence outside or inside its borders, and was torn apart by outside powers without any major wars to defend itself.

>>3266054

becayse they were attacked by them, they were on the defensive

Poles aren't really human so....

>>3266078
t. butthurt French in denial

>>3266054
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth did not have the ability to wage offensive wars the same way other early modern states did. The king needed approval from the Sejm (parliament) to declare war on foreign nations and only in very rare cases was this ever granted. The PLC was probably the most peaceful non-interventionist great power in European history because of this, but at the same time was a big reason for it being perceived as weak.

As for why it didn't attack the Bohemia or the German states specifically, it didn't need to. It had more than enough territory, it was not in their interests to antagonize its western neighbors, and very often the monarchs that were elected there originated from the HRE originally.

Was PLC the most dindu and pure country to ever exist?

>>3269004
>invading Russia and doing genocide then crying when Russians fo the same thing

>>3266128
Perfect West-East balance

>>3269254
>Annexing parts of Germany and doing genocide (Danzig Massacre) then crying when Nazi's do the same thing.

Like clockwork.

>>3266128
100% pure Sarmatian bloodlines

>>3266128
when you fight so diverse types of enemies (western swedes, eastern russians, muslim ottomans/tatars) you learn to adapt
they had used different strategies and tactics against different foes

>>3269254
when did this ever happen?

>>3269254
Source?
>>3269004
Pretty much. Even the serfdom wasn't as bad as in the West. Even though Ukrainians cry about opression now.

>>3269427
literally nazi propaganda

>>3267814
Eternal anglo strikes again

>>3270198
>>3270261

In 1612, when the Polish occupation of the Moscow Kremlin had ended (see Polish–Muscovite War (1605–18)), loose Polish forces, which had fought under Lisowski, scattered over vast territory of the Tsardom of Russia, taking advantage of the so-called Time of Troubles. Exact whereabouts of Aleksander Jozef Lisowski at that time are unknown: the legendary leader most likely roamed across northern Russia, together with his men.

After Russian recapture of Moscow, most of the Polish brigands headed to the area of Vologda. On September 22, 1612, the town was captured, looted and burned by the invaders commanded by Colonel Andrzej Nalewajko, who returned in December 13 of the same year. On December 16, Poles burned the Spaso-Prilutsky Monastery, located near Vologda.

On July 10, 1612, Poles captured Belozersk without fight. The town was looted, and its governor fled to Kirillov, hiding in the fortified Kirillo-Belozersky Monastery. Lisowski's men reached the monastery on August 20, but its siege did not begin until December 1612. Since Polish brigands, numbered at some 3000 men, did not have any artillery, they failed to capture the abbey with its stone walls.

On December 12–15, 1612, a unit of Bobowski three times tried to capture the town of Kargopol, located on the left bank of the Onega River. On January 25, 1613, Poles led by Jakub Jacki attacked the town of Veliky Ustyug, but without success.

>>3270853
In search of food and booty, Lisowski's soldiers moved further northwards, reaching as far as Yemetsk on the Yemtsa River, Solvychegodsk, Kholmogory, and Arkhangelsk. Solvychegodsk was captured and looted on January 22, 1613. The brigands stayed in the town for three days, and then headed towards Yemetsk, which is located 150 kilometers from Arkhangelsk. Its residents, aware of the danger, managed to fortify the town and arm themselves. The "Lithuanians", as they were commonly called, tried to attack the town from the Northern Dvina River, but were repelled. A battle ensued, in which two Russian traitors were captured, and sent to Kholmogory, where they warned residents of a planned attack.

The brigands, numbering some 1200 and commanded by Stanislaw Jasinski, appeared at Kholmogory on December 6, 1613. Again, they failed to capture the town, and decided to head to Arkhangelsk, which they unsuccessfully besieged between December 14–19, 1613. Jasinski and his soldiers then marched towards the Northern Dvina River estuary and the White Sea shore. There, they captured Severodvinsk and burned Nikolo-Korelsky Monastery, after which they ransacked local villages, reaching as far as Karelia.

>>3270858
>>3270853
where's the genocide part?

>>3267538
You are aware that such state of affairs was at the end of PLC's existence, while initially it hardly had any foreign influence?

>>3268367
>and very often the monarchs that were elected there originated from the HRE originally.
Not really. Before Saxon Wettins, the kings were French (though that one was for a short time), Transylvanian, Swedish with Jagiellon ancestry, Ruthenian, and Polish.

>>3270853
>>3270858
You know looting is not a perfectly sensible and common form of payment only since mid 19th century, right?

>>3270888
What changed to allow such situations?

>>3270928
Several Cossack uprisings, often along with wars against Ottomans and/or Crimean Tatars damaged treasury. During one of aforementioned wars against Cossack (that time aided by Russians, while Crimean Tatars were aiding Poland for a change), majority of PLC's army was in Ukraine, and that was when Swedes attacked, which severely damaged population.

Then there was a weak king, who was a son of popular leader during Cossack uprising of Chmielnicki, but himself was a bad choice compared to other candidates (Louis, Grand Condé among them and probably best candidate) there was a war against Ottomans, which ended up losing PLC one of the lands, while future king Jan III Sobieski relieved siege at Vienna.

Then Saxon Vettins came, lost Saxon-Prussian war, so Prussians gained ability to create false coins of Poland, damaging economy.


And on top of that there was Liberum Veto, so any poorer szlachcic could be bribed to end the Sejm without it changing a thing.
And it was caused by precedence of one butthurt szlachcic and a confused marszałek that didn't knew should he end the Sejm if the poseł who used Liberum Veto left instead of discussing why he Veto'ed.

>>3270853
>>3270858
You forgot the part, where they were exiled from Poland for doing that.

>>3269427
>bog standard 17th century looting
>genocide

>>3270261
>Even the serfdom wasn't as bad as in the West.
Polish serfdom was the worst in Europe because weak state could not restrict feudal lords at all.
Another big problem of PLC is religious intolerance which started with Counter-Reformation.

>>3271013
Lisowski's became became persona non grata for uprising against king,
but it was before Polish invasion of Russia when he joined forces with PLC again.
>In 1619-1621 Lisowczycy were sent to help HRE in Thirty Years' War.
>killing even children and dogs
>gained their new nickname: Riders of the Apocalypse.

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>>3271233
>Another big problem of PLC is religious intolerance

>>3271233
>which started with Counter-Reformation.
More like with Swedish Deluge. Before that it was the most tolerant place.

>>3271405
Much earlier. When one Swedish catholicuck became the king of Poland.
He was such catholicuck that was kicked by Swedish protestants from Swedish throne.

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>>3271233

>>3266128
Lots of flat ground

>>3272842
And he spent his entire reign trying and failing to reverse the legally guaranteed (Warsaw Confederation) religious freedom in the Commonwealth.

>>3273048
>Warsaw Confederation
Lithuanian lands had a lot of Orthodox.
Warsaw Confederation was just a trick to calm down worries of those Orthodox after creation of PLC.
The act guaranteed religious freedom but in fact it was just a toilet paper.
PLC was spawned with Jesuits which were Pope's CIA to fight another confessions.
Union of Brest was created to divide Orthodox.
Rights of all non-catholic confession were limited step by step.
They were excluded from all political institutions in the end and became dissidents.

>>3273439
>Warsaw Confederation was just a trick to calm down worries of those Orthodox after creation of PLC.
that's not 100% true
it was created at the time of reformation and Poland didn't wanted to end like german HRE states
there were shitload of religions in Poland going as far as to have some hipster aryanist nobles
>PLC was spawned with Jesuits which were Pope's CIA to fight another confessions.
wrong
Jesuits came only after reign of first Vasa king who would willingly increase their influence and let them educate people
>Union of Brest was created to divide Orthodox.
again, its only partially true
its purpose was to convert people living in rus to catholicism, and while it had some initial sucess it ultimately failed because it alienated cossacks to where they would start considering allying with Moscow
>Rights of all non-catholic confession were limited step by step.
it would mainly happen after Deluge during which many protestants (especially prussians) collaborate with swedes and orthodox cossacks started to flirt with Russia

>>3273490
>Jesuits came only after reign of first Vasa king
They were invited by Stephen Bathory, predecessor of Sigismund Vasa.

>>3273490
>it would mainly happen after Deluge during which many protestants (especially prussians) collaborate with swedes and orthodox cossacks started to flirt with Russia
It should be pointed out that Radziwiłł, Lithuanian traitor, was a Protestant as well.

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>>3267494

>>3266078
>get ostkolonied'd
>t-the HRE was weak!! fighting in a cold desert was more important!!

Why didn`t Portugal invade the HRE did they fear the neither holy nor roman warrior?

>>3266054
>H
>R
>E

>H
>R
>W

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>>3274289
um sweetie