Can we another holocaust denial debunking thread? Im running

>>3240379
Why bother? It's not like they pay attention to evidence anyway.

I just wanna say it's pretty interesting how some people find all the evidence on the Holocaust as either inconclusive or made up yet don't apply the same standards of evidence for the Polish massacres of ethnic Germans for example.

Might be going off topic here,but just had a guy trying to convince me that the people under Nazi Germany where freer than the people of for example France are nowadays

>>3240530
How did this "gentleman" phrase it by saying NS Germany was freer than France is today?

>>3240530
True. Work makes you free, and the French never work if they can avoid it.

>>3240490
I find the new "Danzig massacre" meme fascinating, I'm not sure if they're confusing it with when the Selbschutz got blown the fuck out or being intentionally disingenuous

>>3240557
He denied the control over the press and the opposition the NSDAP had after the burning of the Reichstag and claimed that the average joe back then was the most happy compared to any other era.

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>>3240564
>new "Danzig massacre" meme
The Danzig massacres used to be part of the official record and accepted history taught in history classes in the US. But somewhere along the way, that changed.

Anyone steering the conversation in this direction is missing the most important point, which is even without a single German killed in Danzig, Danzig was rightfully the property of Germany. 95% of Danzig's population considered themselves German, spoke German, and desired to be united with their German brothers as part of Germany. Given that Germany had a legitimate claim on Danzig otherwise, there's no need to inflate the number of casualties from atrocities against Germans, let alone fabricate them. Germans were brutally mutilated and beaten by the Poles, Hitler would not stand by idly while a great number of German's were being murdered daily in such an atrocious manner, taking into consideration the many times he reached out to the Polish government to release those Germans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM1h_2ujsvs
Here is Hitler declaring war on Poland, he explains.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhhJBqjdhMg
This video discusses the Bromberg massacres. Germans were being brutalized.

Refute this work:

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/08-t.pdf

>>3240583
What is Enabling Act? What is the Reichstag Fire Decree? What is the People's Court? Who is Roland Fresiler?
Is this what autism looks like?

>>3240626
Here you go.
https://ia600603.us.archive.org/9/items/BelzecSobiborTreblinka.HolocaustDenialAndOperationReinhard.ACritique/BelzecSobiborTreblinkaHolocaustControversies.pdf

>>3240607
Nice pasta

>>3240490
it's funny how much they use other crimes to seemingly justify the one that ostensibly didn't happen.

>>3240626
And you?

>>3240724
>got any more info I can make pasta of?
>hehe, nice pasta kiddo

>Jewish Holocaust historian Hannah Arendt's book Eichmann in Jerusalem
>"Eyewitnesses [who testified in the 1961 trial in Jerusalem of Adolf Eichmann] were only rarely able to distinguish between what actually happened to them years earlier and what they had read, heard or imagined in the meantime."
>Lucy Dawidowicz, Jewish Holocaust historian
>"the survivor's memory is often distorted by hate, sentimentality, and the passage of time. His perspective on external events is often skewed by the limits of his personal experience."

>>3240753
>French Holocaust historian Germain Tillion
>"very much more numerous than people generally suppose, and a subject like that of the concentration camp world -- well designed, alas, to stimulate sado-masochistic imaginations -- offered them an exceptional field of action. We have known numerous mentally damaged persons, half-swindlers and half fools, who exploited an imaginary deportation. We have known others of them -- authentic deportees -- whose sick minds strove to even go beyond the monstrosities that they had seen or that people said happened to them."

>>3240760
>Jewish holocaust historian Samuel Gringauz
>"most of the memoirs and reports are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."

>>3240753
I've seen that exact text posted before anon, you aren't fooling anyone

>>3240767
>Shmuel Krakowki, archives director of the Israeli government's Holocaust center Yad Vashem
>more than 10,000 of the 20,000 "testimonies" of Jewish "survivors" on file there are "unreliable." Many survivors, wanting "to be part of history" may have let their imaginations run away with them, Krakowski said. "Many were never in the places where they claimed to have witnessed atrocities, while others relied on second-hand information given them by friends or passing strangers." He confirmed that many of the testimonies on file at Yad Vashem were later proved to be inaccurate when locations and dates could not pass an expert historian's appraisal.

>>3240770
If you read the same book twice are you shocked to see the same story?

>>3240753
yes witnesses can be unreliable thanks sherlock

>>3240777
I am if it's verbatim, yes

>>3240781
I guess as a holocaust historian you are used to changing qoutes and testimonies.

>>3240775
>Shmuel Krakowski
This is the same guy that said Bor-Komorowski gave an order to kill all Jews by saying to kill all roving bandits.
Shmuel worked for the Communists in one of the most oppressive regimes, the KC PZPR.
He is not a reliable source of information.

>Gerald Reitlinger, author of the Final Solution
>"A certain degree of reserve is necessary in handling all this material, and particularly this applies to the last section (survivor narratives) ... The Eastern European Jew is a natural rhetorician, speaking in flowery similes."

>>3240379
>dude spoonfeed me because I'm a fucking retard who can't argue
"No", we aren't your personal army, faggot.

>survivor accounts and experiences can be falsified
Very enlightening,we could see alot of people using tragedy for their own selfish gains such as in 9/11
It still doesnt put too much of a dent for other evidences

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>>3240607
say it with me

DANZIG IST POLNISCH

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>>3240830
This.

The only consistent evidence deniers provide are obvious lies of "survivors" in specific instances.

Other than that all I've seen is shit that can be or has been disproven.

The massacre of ethnic Germans has even less evidence than deniers claim the holocaust to have, with only one instance even resembling it, where Polish soldiers were attacked by ethnic German terrorists and gave impromptu executions, AFTER Germany had invaded.

I saw an argument once where somebody said that there was a bunch of Jewish hair with Zyklon B in it, thus they shaved the hair to get rid of mites.. despite the Zyklon B.

I wont deny how Jewish people have used the holocaust as a free past in the years following it up 'til now, inventing their own stories and narratives,
but there was a dedicated effort to exterminate a civilian populace regardless. Old swindlers do not negate this fact, just as >>3240830 said, 9/11 happened too.
inb4 "inside job" regardless of that argument it still happened, regardless of false testimonies the Germans ethnically cleansed and attempted genocide on the Jewish people.

I've went into these debates time and time again with an open mind and every time I've seen deniers fail to provide sufficient evidence other than obvious falsified testimonies and a single piece of evidence where a purported cremation chamber was only 11 inches deep.
They can't even back up their numbers for the number of Jews living in Europe at the time.

>>3240893
Yeah the excuse saying that kikes get a free pass due to the holohoax is exaggerated
Anti semitism is still strong and some groups would just scoff at the shoah
Kikes are snivelling untrustworthy snake but trying to deny history just because you hate them is disingeneous

>>3240379
is this really the best you can offer

>>3240920
>Kikes are snivelling untrustworthy snake but trying to deny history just because you hate them is disingeneous
This this entirely this.

I don't see why so many people can't defend their anti-semetic views without denying the holocaust.

>>3240788
that's the weak fucking leg you stand on, not me

>>3240788
This >>3240607 is a quote from fucking reddit,and reddit isn't exactly a primary source

>>3240893
You're whole post is expository rather than explanitory, little shibboleths intended to convince rather than explain are apparent and often repetitive in each thread, you're merely playing the role of the impartial third party but no impartial third party would be so invested to make such a lengthy post.

>with an open mind

You spend half of the post building attempting to build up the image of an impartial character, which clearly shows you are not impartial.

>>3240931
go for it

>>3240958
I was originally impartial but am no longer after seeing these debates.

Also I believe the subject being discussed on this board to the point of being spamworthy is enough to be invested.

>>3240893
>I saw an argument once where somebody said that there was a bunch of Jewish hair with Zyklon B in it, thus they shaved the hair to get rid of mites.. despite the Zyklon B.

That makes sense. You have to remove the lice either by shaving or with a comb after you apply delousing treatment.

>>3241003
>You have to remove the lice either by shaving or with a comb after you apply delousing treatment that would kill the person since you need more Zyklon b to do in a louse than you do for a person.
FTFY.

>>3241007
What? Zyklon B paralyzes lice at non-lethal doses hence why they shaved hair after.

>>3241094
http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/
The lethal dose for a human relative to a louse is some 53 times as much HCN. I'm not sure what the paralysis lesser dose is, but to assert that you could pump in enough HCN to paralyze a louse while still leave the human whose hair the louse is in alive is extremely fanciful, especially given the slow metabolism that lice have and the long amount of time it usually takes for them to absorb the poison.

fuck

>>3240893
Not an argument

>>3241181
The delousing argument is still stable and comparatively logical consider typhus epidemics during that period.

can someone post the copypasta that people claim debunks the Holocaust?

>>3240490
>>3240607
Stop spreading this bullshit, Poles were not massacring Germans.

>>3240830
>9/11
Never happened
Yet another Public relations scheme by the Jews

>>3240379
You are wasting your time.

Educate the ones that haven't gone astray yet.

>>3240379
>running low on ammo
if there was proof, it wouldn't need debunking in the first place

untill the Holocaust Forum releases their so called proof to the public and deny independent research there will always be people who will question it.

either show definite proof or accept that a lot of people won't believe you

>>3244781
Daily reminder

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
http://4archive.org/board/his/thread/509405
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

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>>3244791
>le imgur post which only provides quotes, books and witness testimonies as proof
give me real physical evidence: ashes, bodies, concentrations of zyklon B in the gas chambers

I mean the pile of shoes and texts of survivors at Auschwitz are nice and all but don't expect me to not get critical when halfway trough the tour you claim that pic related is the gas chamber door that stood between the camp guards and a deadly gas.... I mean it has a fucking keyhole for crying out loud

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The Jews deserved it.

>>3244857
>give me real physical evidence: ashes, bodies, concentrations of zyklon B in the gas chambers
All in those links.

>I mean the pile of shoes and texts of survivors at Auschwitz are nice and all but don't expect me to not get critical when halfway trough the tour you claim that pic related is the gas chamber door that stood between the camp guards and a deadly gas
https://www.quora.com/In-the-Holocaust-were-the-gas-chamber-doors-really-made-out-of-wood

>>3240760
>>3240767
This is probably why my friend's grandmother (Jewish) kept telling me the Germans would skin Jews and use the skin as lampshades and upholstery.

>>3244867
She's repeating a common rumor, it's not a false memory.

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>>3244857
> concentrations of zyklon B in the gas chambers
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/

>you claim that pic related is the gas chamber door that stood between the camp guards and a deadly gas
Really? What tour claims this? Why is it at variance with what every historian believes, in part from actual documentation which calls for "Gas-tight doors", which is mentioned in the imagur link that you so casually dismissed.

>>3244872
It was real in her mind.

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>>3244989

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>>3244999

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>>3245010

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>>3245029

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>>3245036

>>3244864

>DUDE A FAKE QUOTE THAT EXPRESSES WHAT I BELIEVE ANYWAY!

>>3240607
>The Danzig massacres used to be part of the official record and accepted history taught in history classes in the US.

No it wasnt.

>>3244781
Jesus Christ, you're like those niggers that deny the Holomodor was a thing as well.

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>>3244857
>>3244857
If you are going to questions other's, at least get your own pics right.

The door pictured is the door between room A (a storage room) and room B (A washing room). These two rooms came into existence AFTER 1943 when the former gas chamber was turned into and air raid shelter by early 1944.

I am not surprised you overlooked this since it is clear you are unwilling to do any research on the subject.

>>3245421
Look up the text, it's literally a reddit post

>>3245751
The holodomor didn't happen, its just lies made up by capitalists and russophobic hohols

>>3245751
The Holodomor at least has a real range of Historiographic debate, and the most retarded I've seen is 'Kulaks are to blame, do it again, Comrade Stalin'

I've never seen people pretending that there was no famine, despite the Soviets own records talking about it.

>>3245965
KULAKS ARE TO BLAME, THERE WAS NO FAMINE, THEY STARVED THEMSELVES!

>>3245965
>KULAKS ARE TO BLAME, THERE WAS NO FAMINE, THEY STARVED THEMSELVES!

>>3241525
No it isnt

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>ask /pol/tard for source
>they link me a white nationalist website

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>>3245933
>>3245970
>>3245977
Why commies likes to hate farmers? is because they hate food too?

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Woah Germany was able to kill almost half of all living Jews in a few years span? Instead of using them as desperately needed labor? Wowowowowowowowo WOAHAHHHHHH WoaH

>>3246028
Yes it is
>numerous typhus outbreaks in the first half of the twentieth century
>camps use barracks to house inmates
>numerous typhus outbreaks (typhus was the number one killer in Belzec)
>Zyklon B was created to eliminate pests namely lice
>Germans wasting materiel, railways, fuel, to eliminate a large labor force in the middle of a life and death struggle

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Sure is a lot of Jews here.

>>3245414
>"Goyim are bad people compared to us good jews" -Rabbi Schlomo Sheckelstein
Scared yet?

>>3246194

>It's a "stormcunt who doesn't even know the absolute basics of what he's trying to deny" episode

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>>3246254

>Germans wasting resources

I know right?

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>>3246254
>Germans wasting materiel, railways, fuel
The Me 163 is the perfect example of a logistical nightmare yet the Jerries still wanted to mass produce it. For every 4 Me 262s, there was 1 Me 163 and here are some problems it had:
>Sensitive fuel meant if it comes into contact outside of the engine, shit will combust
>Pilots had to wear special suits just so they wouldn't burn to death
>When landing there was a chance of the fuel combusting as mentioned previously cause the thing had no landing gear
>No landing gear meant you had to belly land, increasing risk of combustion
>2 seperate trucks were needed to supply the fuel for the plane
>plane's engine had to be rinsed with water so there would be NO chance of the fuel combusting
>Still produced 300 of these and made simpler variants for mass production
>wasn't even that good of an interceptor
Also obligatory >>3246843

>>3240714
>>3246035
Whats the problem, anti white cuck?

>>3244781
>if there was proof, it wouldn't need debunking in the first place
are you retarded?

>>3245895

you mean like the books about the masturbation machines you guys love to always bring up? how is this any different?

>>3240530

I honestly dont know which one would be worse to live in

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>>3244857
>when halfway trough the tour you claim that pic related is the gas chamber door that stood between the camp guards and a deadly gas...
Well, good thing it's not.

I actually did a little digging on this one myself a couple years ago when I saw some naziboo meme image, and the answer is pretty mundane.

>pic related
That's the real gas chamber door.

They were switched when the gas chamber was converted, first into an office, then into an air raid bunker.

I think the office conversion was where the toilet that's apparently in there somewhere came into being, the bunker conversion is when the doors were switched.

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>>3246191
>Every single Holocaust victim died in a camp
You're only pretending to be retarded, right?

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>>3246254

>>3246191
>wutz a pogrom
>what's a kirstallnaught
>durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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>But where are the bodies?!

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>>3247059

>>3246191
>sardine_packing.jpeg

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"Let me tell you quite frankly: in one way or another we will have to finish with the Jews. The Führer once expressed it as follows: should Jewry once again succeed in inciting a world war, the bloodletting could not be limited to the peoples they drove to war but the Jews themselves would be done for in Europe. If the Jewish tribe survives the war in Europe while we sacrifice our blood for the preservation of Europe, this war will be but a partial success. Basically, I must presume, therefore, that the Jews will disappear. To that end I have started negotiations to expel them to the east. In any case, there will be a great Jewish migration. But what is to become of the Jews? Do you think that they will be settled in villages in the conquered eastern territories? In Berlin we have been told not to complicate matters: since neither these territories, nor our own, have any use for them, we should liquidate them ourselves! Gentlemen, I must ask you to remain unmoved by pleas for pity. We must annihilate the Jews wherever we encounter them and wherever possible, in order to maintain the overall mastery of the Reich here."
- Hans Frank, to senior members of his administration, December 16, 1941, quoted in "Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: the final solution in history" (1088), page 302, Arno J. Mayer

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>>3247060

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Holocaust deniers, in their usual habit of committing logical fallacies, try to disprove the homicidal gassing aspect of the holocaust by (boldly assuming) the notion that not a single photo of any gassing victim exists (having rudimentary knowledge of Nazi secrecy and the fact that gassing victims are said to have been exhumed and cremated), and therefore go on to challenge holocaust defenders by saying "show me one photo of victims of Nazi gassings - if millions died by gassing, surely a single photo exists?"

They are then prepared for the defenders to commit the fallacy of showing them photos of the heaps and heaps of emaciated corpses found and photographed in Western and Central Europe's concentration camps when they were liberated by the Western Allies and shown in many documentaries, like the top image in the above photo. Sneering gleefully that the bait has been taken, the holocaust deniers then go on to lecture that these are not gassing victims, but victims of typhus or malnutrition, all caused by allied aerial bombing that destroyed Germany's infrastructure in 1945 and therefore the Allies are actually responsible (the gall!) for this atrocity (the only real atrocity, according to the deniers) of the holocaust.

Of course, the deniers won't accept the e.g. in Auschwitz piles and piles of shoes, clothes, spectacles, personal belongings such as suitcases or even prostheses (what the hell are prostheses doing in a pile in a room in the camp unless of course their owners are all DEAD?) as proof, claiming the Soviets could have just dumped these things into the camp from somewhere else when trying to create a museum (again, makes your stomach churn listening to these people, doesn't it?).

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>>3247104
I would start by showing them the 2 Sonderkommando photos instead that show a heap of corpses burning outside Krematorium V. If it isn't for their pathetic "Ohio train wreck" attempt to discredit the image, the holocaust deniers otherwise usually resort to saying things like "well clearly there was a typhus epidemic some time in the camp's history, and during that time the crematory ovens were overstressed, and therefore outdoor cremation became necessary, and the photo could just be showing typhus victims being burned".

At this point you already begin to realize you're becoming a victim of the game deniers play well (they are called holocaust DENIERS for a reason): they'll always weasel away from accepting historiography and try to find an alternate explanation for every bit of attention thrown their way, which is why historians don't waste their time trying to engage in a "debate" with these clowns in the first place. It's not because they're afraid, or incapable of debating (we've already had the pleasure of witnessing Van Pelt, Evans et al. tear apart the former revisionism world "expert" David Irving in court) but because deniers won't accept any evidence as evidence: A jewish eye-witness is a paid liar. A Nazi eye-witness is a tortured soul. A document is a forgery. A photo actually is showing something else or a forgery too. An audio recording is a forgery too. A corpse is a typhus victim. A poison gas canister is a delousing agent meant to save lives. A German word always has an innocuous meaning. A threat to kill Jews is just a hollow threat made out of frustration. A census is unreliable. ...these are the tools of the trade for holocaust deniers.

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>>3247107
In any case, a further image of gassing victims is the bottom image shown above, taken near Krasnodar.
you can find out more here:
http://holocaustcontroversies . blogspot . co . at/2012/09/friedrich-paul-berg-yelled-for-photos . html

Once again, the tried and tested method of holocaust deniers is to say "we can't trust anything Soviet", citing examples like the 4 million Auschwitz death toll, or the Katyn massacre they tried to attribute to the Nazis as proof that it is fine to dismiss anything and everything else Soviet investigators ever brought up.

More Nazi crimes in the east:
http://holocaustcontroversies . blogspot . co . at/2011/06/22-june-1941 . html
http://holocaustcontroversies . blogspot . co . at/2009/03/photographic-documentation-of-nazi . html

And while we're at it, how about the fact that we also have video footage of people being led into a homicidal gas chamber after all? That's right. Watch here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx4pUKF7I1E

The experimental gas chamber at Mogilev has been jury rigged to dispose of people in a fashion similar to mass killing in the AR camps: using engine exhaust.

Read more about this at:
http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_mogilev.html

>>3246919
Go back to r/holocaust

God it feels so fucking good to put Jews back in their place.

>>3247222
...back in Israel?

>>3247230
What claim do they have to Israel?

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>>3247222
They tried but failed

>>3247252
They claim to have America as an ally.

So far, that claim has worked pretty well.

>Autistic commies and kikes on /his/
Saged, hidden, next.

>>3245414
>Fake
Off yourself.

>>3245010
>>3245029
These debunk nothing. Wtf? Why would autistic lefties use them as evidence?

>>3247104
>>3247107
>>3247109
>Copypasta, forgeries and links to shady blogs
How desperate is the left and how desperate are the kikes?

>>3247333

>your blogs are shady
>here, hitlerwasright.blogspot will tell you the real thing

>>3247308
>>3247333
>Their memes get BTFO by actual evidence
>I-it's le commies and le kikes!

>>3247308
Can you provide a source for that quote?

>>3247337
>>3247361
>Autistic commies angry because no one's buying their meme """"evidence""""
Lol. Sage.

>>3247367
>Announcing sage at the end of dead thread on foreign board

How much they pay you, newfag?

>>3247367

That's not how you sage newfriend

>>3247393
>>3247395
Sage. Not bumping your shitty thread, kike.

>>3247409
*bumps you*

>>3240775

>10000 of 20000 testimonies are considered unreliable.

That would leave 10000 testimonies which are considered "reliable." 10,000 unique testimonies, combined with all the physical evidence, is more than enough to be considered irrefutable proof, I'd say.

>>3248101
>I'd say.
Good thing your opinion doesn't matter. Sage'd.

>>3248112

Great argument.

>>3247409

>he says, while failing to sage

>>3248114
>>3248116
Sage, you fucking Commie permavirgin losers.

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>>3244989
>>3244999
>>3245010
>>3245029
>>3245036
>>3245039
Aaaaaand here comes the gish gallop from leddit autists who don't actually know how to argue

>>3248187
Sage me, daddy!

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>>3248187
>ignoring counterevidence while arbitrarily claiming it's not counterevidence
>actually using SJW-terminology like "gish-gallop" unironically

Truly pathetic.

>>3245892
The plan in this picture doesn't make sense at all wtf.
Hundreds of dudes had to pass through 3 doors, pass in front of the incinerators like if it was nothing to go into the gas chamber?
They stored the ashes (fucking why in the first place?) in a room only accessible from the gas chamber itself or after an improbable walk through the entrance room and a random storage room?
Why the hell does the storage room opens on the gas chamber?
The gas chamber opens directly on the incinerator room, indoors? The athmosphere must have been poisonous as fuck.
The chimney not only isn't on top of the incinerators but seems to be completely apart of the building...

Lol whoever built this shit should be gased.

>>3240607
Danzing wasn't a part of Poland at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig

>>3248187

>lose argument
>make canned jew joke

stormfags are utterly pathetic lol

>>3246254
>Germans wasting materiel, railways, fuel, to eliminate a large labor force in the middle of a life and death struggle
You're implying that people would never do something heinous because it's irrational, and wastes time.

>>3248294
>The athmosphere must have been poisonous as fuck.
There was a ventilation system, you know

>>3248354
>This Kike pretending the world isn't onto his bullshit
You'll get genocided again soon, vermin.

>>3248270
You don't have a single bit of evidence, you anti white leftypol shill

>>3248383
>Whites genocide Jews again
>Use this as political motive "oy vey whites have never learned it seems"
>now whites are entirely against each other
>whites vs whites
>eventually just genocide each other
I can see this working out in our favour, goy.

>>3248391
>Traitors die
>Jews die
I don't see us losing.

>>3248423
>Nazis die from being outnumbered
>Traitor whites commit suicide as apology
Yes, yes, goy, the Nazis are rising. To arms and fight! You will definitely win.

>>3248368
Even if there was a top of the art ventilation system there is absolutely no reason to build such a retarded layout.
And what about the other points?
This reconstitution is a blatant fake, no wonder there are deniers when you see this kind of bullshit.

>>3240564
They just don't know history. They read somewhere about Bromberg massacre and alleged massacres of ethnic Germans Pomerelia and they confuse it with Danzig.

>>3248446
Are you a civil engineer?

>>3248383
>You'll get genocided again soon

So you admit the holocaust happened and this denial shit is just a meme? Ok then, good talk

>>3248446
What is retarded about this? This is not the reconstruction, this is how it really worked. As you can see it was originally a munition bunker, so it wasn't constructed by the Nazis.
Krema I was also used for a short time, and it was more like an experiment before they built the gas chambers at Birkenau (Krema I is in Auschwitz).

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>>3248354
>>3248270
>>3248218
It's gish gallop , otherwise known as fallacy where instead of arguing points you spam as much as possible so that people can actually respond? I mean most if that gish gallop already has stormfront gish gallop memes made specifically made to counter it already.

If you want to actually argue about the Holocaust, start arguing anytime instead of being pathetic brainlets using the same argument methods stormfront and /pol/ uses while claiming to be superior to them

L M A O
M
A
O

>>3248270
>ignoring counterevidence
It's gish gallop
>Gish gallop is sjw
Fuck off Paul Joseph Watson

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>>3247333
>It's only OK when we do it

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>>3248354
>Lose argument
You didn't make and argument you spammed meme images claiming to be better than /pol/ when in reality all you are doing is the SAME SHIT /pol/ DOES

/his/ is full of brainlets apparently. I mean one of the gish gallop you make just claims that all of the ww2 pictures we see are essentially some sort of elaborate Nazi hoax of having pictures of non-nazis commit war crimes in WW2, and the reasoning he uses is that
>"I havent seen those pictures on other websites, therefore fuck Occam's razor it's a stormfront hoax"
Which is /pol/ tier reasoning at best , same with all the other meme images from leddit

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>>3247374
Wow, you got me. How will I EVER recover from this one?

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>>3248187
Le Jews :(

>>3248512
See
>>3248504
On this website the people who deny the holocaust are just as intelligent and we'll informed on dialectical discussion as those who believe in it lmao
>Muh stormfront

>>3248512
>most vile, hated people trough out the history of human kind regardless of race, nationality etc
Yeah, everyone is wrong Jews did nothing.

>>3248504
You are free to debunk it you know, instead of complaining.

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>>3248533
Exactly, so if you believe this, why is it so hard for you believe that they were the victim of genocide?

>>3248462
>>3248470
Student in architecture.
But I could be a ballerina or a cook it doesn't change anything, can't you see it just doesn't work? I should say it's inefficient as a concept, but at this point it's so much fucked it simply doesn't work. Imagine the process ffs.
People passing in front of the incinerators: panic ensues (several times a day!)
Storing the ashes: W.T.F.
2 doors in the gas chamber: as if it wasn't dangerous enough...
Chimney build apart of the building: even nowadays it would be a hell to conceive a chimney so far apart, but anyway this one isn't even connected!
etc...
Everything goes wrong in this plan, it's certainly not like that it was built, you can be sure this is just a poor tourist trap.

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>>3248565
>but anyway this one isn't even connected!
Except it is

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>>3248565
>>3248607

>>3248565

>this one isn't even connected!

Whoa, I didn't know that it was impossible to build things underground.

>>3248545
I don't even deny the holocaust, but at least I know how to properly fucking argue on the subject without spamming a bunch of meme images.

Christ
>Durr /his/ can do all the same things /pol/ and /leftypol/ does but it's still superior XD

>>3248634
Then do it. Post your superior arguments that cloud anything that was posted in this thread.

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>>3248634
With the huge amount of holocaust threads posted here every week it becomes a massive pain in the ass to have to type out the same refutations to tired old Stormfag arguments. Why not condense it down to an easily digestible image that can be redistributed?

>>3240379
>Can we another holocaust denial debunking thread?
>another
Please no. These threads are going to deteriorate to the same level of actual holocaust denial threads on /pol/. Just keep your infographs ready like they do and prepare for the next pollack outing himself as a denier here, or trying to actively false flag. No need to play msm and constantly remind everyone of things that exist regardless and you don't like how they exist. To be honest, this could be a false flag thread already.

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>>3248613
>Decom'd in 1943
>Deconstructed in 1944 and turned into an air raid shelter
>1944
>The year when most of the gassing supposedly took place
Aren't I supposed to believe that the ovens were working over time 24/7 which is what lead to the over 1 million death toll? Also, and I know ad verecundium is a fallacy, aren't these blue prints reconstructed by the Soviets as well after the Nazis tried to burn them? Am I supposed to trust Joseph " Purge the bourge" Stalin as a credible source in this matter when they could've easily forged the documents?

>>3248670
Why? I'm just telling you not to act like /pol/ and jus create massive circle jerk threads that create an ad infinitum supply of gish gallop memes images that kill discussion
>>3248705
Because eventually someone is going to make a meme images answering those question, then you'll make more question , then they'll make more answers, it doesn't fucking end. Just have a conversation

Every time I see someone respond to that inquiry no one responds back because it's gish gallop responding to gish gallop

>>3248723
Why would Stalin, an avowed anti-Semite, be interested in faking the Holocaust?

>>3248738
>Because eventually someone is going to make a meme images answering those question, then you'll make more question , then they'll make more answers, it doesn't fucking end. Just have a conversation
Except that hasn't happened

>>3248723
Not him, but you do realize that Krema 1 was tied to the original "Auschwitz" camp, and the other 4 Krema were tied to the Birkenau camp, and that the other 45+ sub-camps didn't have separate crematoria, right? And that Auschwitz I was not the main destination nor the main killing ground ,so analysis of that particular crematorium is not particularly relevant, right?

>>3248741
>Except that hasn't happened
If you lurked on /pol/, 8/pol/ or stormfront you would know it already has

>>3248565
>isn't even connected
Great career ahead of you mate

>>3240379
these are the dumbest fucking threads on /hus/. Where lefty/pol/ and /pol/ exchange mental diarreah without any actual discussion about history.

>>3248747
Don't worry, it was already obvious that you lurked there by the fact you're a complete fucking tool.

>>3248747
So how come they never post those debunks here, or some random anon? Genuinely curious, wouldn't they want to prove everyone wrong and shut them up?

>>3248607
>>3248613
>>3248628
I'm not the smartest guy around but I know how to read a plan: this one doesn't show any connection, despite being relatively precise.
But this is just one problem among all the others. The real stuff was not this crap, it's an absolute certainty. Try to design a system able to assassinate people en masse (wtf we goebbels now), there's no way you'll end up with this.

>>3248761
>lefty/pol/
Not really, just anyone who isn't retarded enough to buy into /pol/bullshit.

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>>3248761
>lefty/pol/

>>3248781
Are you fucking retarded

>>3248781
>>3248613
Lower center-right corner. How can you NOT see it?

It's time for a solution to thee threads. A Final solution.

>>3248781

Have your eyes been examined recently anon?

Why don't we have a thread about other genocides and see if it gets the same amount of attention. Some one make that Armenian Genocide thread.

>>3248786
>>3248792
>>3248805
This plan motherfuckers >>3245892

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>>3248743
>other 4 Krema were tied to the Birkenau camp, and that the other 45+ sub-camps didn't have separate crematoria, right?
Yeah? But isn't this proof that crematoriums we're often not running at Max capacity due to the equipment being decommed wither permenantly or for repairs? I mean why are estimates of the holocaust death toll measured by max capacity of the ovens and not population statistics anyways
>Inb4 strawmen about that jewish encylopedia and the Red Cross estimate of German prisoners
That in itself should put the death toll lower than many estimates their are currently , surely? That's also assuming that the maximum amount of ovens estimated by the Soviets after they assumed the Nazis had bombed extra amount of the facilities to hide their crimes is true or not based on re-created documents which even people who believe he holocaust are somewhat skeptical about

(Will post more of that in a few hours got some errands I should have a pasta from ihr/some stormfront tier website on that somewhere, something about the actual math behind the death toll)

>>3248768
>I'm a tool for believing the holocaust without using logical fallacies to believe in it
Back to /pol/ you go

>>3248844
It's the same structure for fuck's sake.

>>3248769
>So how come they never post those debunks here, or some random anon?
Probably because they don't like /his/ and mostly post amongst themselves? I know /his/ is convinced that /pol/ is running some sort of infiltration operation on them but I assure they are not.

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>>3240379
There's nothing to debunk because nothing happened.

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>>3248884
>11 million people just disappeared

>>3240379
Hello, Schlomo.

Are they paying you well?

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>>3248907
11 billion, goy. Get your facts straight.

>>3248907
Isn't it only 8 million people, and weren't only 6 million of them Jewish. Also, why does nobody ever dispute the number of POWs, Gays and Gypsies, and cripples purged by the NSDAP?

>>3248915
>why does nobody ever dispute the number of POWs, Gays and Gypsies, and cripples purged by the NSDAP?
/pol/ only cares about DE JEWZ

>>3248858
But on the plan displayed on site it's not connected.
Anyway it's just the last of the issues in this structure, as I explained previously everything in the process upstream the chimney can't work efficiently, IF it works. >>3248294

Oh and btw this one >>3248613 is highly retarded too, it's not like they had any restriction to observe, there isn't a single reason to build a complicated underground flue. It takes a huge amount of hypocrisy to consider this as plausible.

>>3248915
In total the number rounds about 666 trillion gypsies, jews, slavs, muslims and niggers.

http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-140-Occurrences-Of-The-Word-Holocaust-And-The-Number-6,000,000-Before-The-Nuremberg-Trials-Began.php

#NeverForget.

>>3248930
>there isn't a single reason to build a complicated underground flue. It takes a huge amount of hypocrisy to consider this as plausible.
Wow, it's almost like the Nazis weren't very rational people or something

>>3248931
See: >>3245010

There are a couple of youtube videos circulating where a denier shows you a whole bunch of pre-war newspaper clippings talking about 6 million Jews. Or you may come across a video that talks about a "holocaust" of some other group before WW2. From what I understand, both of these "revelations" are supposed to be a huge eye-opener, a truly shocking "woah" moment that should convert you to questioning "the" holocaust of six million Jews, given that we have proof that these things pop up BEFORE WW2 even happened! One huge conspiracy, right? Long-planned and in the making ever since the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion were first laid out? Wrong.

I'll tell you why: did you come across the pre-war newspaper articles that spoke of 5 million Jews??? No? How about 4 million Jews? No? What about 7 million Jews? No? Well I have, see the pic above. All these other newspaper articles exist. It's just that the guy who posted the "omfg 6 million" pre-war newspaper clippings conveniently does not show the other numbers also listed in pre-war newspaper snippets. Why should he? It would detract from his intended message of somehow making the 6 million number unique and prophetic. In reality, all of these were rough estimates of the Jewish population in Eastern Europe and Western Russia, being in danger due to the turbulent events of the early 20th century happening there (war, famine, revolution etc.).

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>>3248931
>>3248944
Some deniers also try to claim there are references to a "holocaust" or a "6 million" in the Torah and Talmud, though when I asked them to give me the verse so I could look it up myself, they balked and changed the topic. The best they could come up with, is rather than citing scripture itself, to cite a book supposedly citing from the scripture, which is "Keystone of the New World Order: The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism", written by a guy called Ben Weintraub. Makes you think he is Jewish, and therefore in the know, right? Wrong: "Ben Weintraub" is the pen name of presumably one Robert L. Brock, a Jew-hater.

Keep in mind the Nazi genocide on the Jewish and non-Jewish non-combatant population of Europe was not given a proper name immediately after the war. It took some time. Today, we only think of the Nazi genocide when hearing the word "holocaust", because no other such large scale deliberate genocide of entire peoples marked as "undesirable" by a regime has happened that was not the result of famine or other natural factors. Therefore, it is perfectly natural for our current understanding of the word "holocaust" to find its meaning in the atrocities committed by the Nazis.

>>3248922
Nor do they dispute the fact that 3 million Russians were slaughtered by Hitler, it's just the Jews they complain about, even though they at least pretend to think Russians are white.

>>3248849
>Yeah? But isn't this proof that crematoriums we're often not running at Max capacity due to the equipment being decommed wither permenantly or for repairs?
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. How is the multiple kremas and where they were put have anything to do with repair schedules?

>I mean why are estimates of the holocaust death toll measured by max capacity of the ovens and not population statistics anyways
They aren't. Holocaust death totals are overwhelingly based on population data, which they almost have to be, given how much of the holocaust happened outside of Auschwitz.

>That's also assuming that the maximum amount of ovens estimated by the Soviets after they assumed the Nazis had bombed extra amount of the facilities to hide their crimes is true or not based on re-created documents which even people who believe he holocaust are somewhat skeptical about
But pretty much nobody uses the Soviet estimates of Auschwtiz's capacity. Hell, they were even rejected for the Nuremberg trials, let alone anything later.

>>3248944
>Wow, it's almost like the Nazis weren't very rational people or something
Meanwhile they're supposed to have been super efficient rational assassins.
>have free way to conceive a killing machine
>build a tiny labyrinthine piece of shit
You're not serious. This kind of ridiculous display is exactly what allows deniers to play their cards.

>>3249060
Not the guy you responded to, but how often do you see this claim?
>Meanwhile they're supposed to have been super efficient rational assassins.
Made by anyone other than holocaust deniers? I mean for fuck's sake, you have guys like Chris Browning, who are very prominent Holocaust academics, making a career about how the decisionmaking leading up to the Final Solution was this haphazard ad hoc mess.

>>3249060
>Meanwhile they're supposed to have been super efficient rational assassins.
Irrationality doesn't imply ineffectiveness, anyone can achieve a goal if backed by strong conviction.

>>3247374
Some of the ones you tagged weren't even denial

>>3249066
>Made by anyone other than holocaust deniers?
Not at all. The facts show that a big bunch of civilians wer killed. And now, official history narrative explains that it has been done in such crappy basements... By the same people who managed to build advanced weapons in a record time and under heavy bombing. It's just stupid. Gas chambers were certainly not like that (IF it was the killing mean), and as long as this history page is displayed like that (let's be honnest ffs, this layout can't work) there will be deniers.

>>3249192
>And now, official history narrative
What is this "official history narrative" you speak of?

>explains that it has been done in such crappy basements
Really? At least what I learned in school mentioned not only the gas chambers (and there were more than the ones in Auschwitz) but the ghetto starvation plans and the mass shootings out in the Soviet Union. I don't quite call it an "official" narrative, but it's certainly a supported one.

>By the same people who managed to build advanced weapons in a record time
What advanced weapons? The Wehrmacht was generally behind the curve when it came to weapons technology, only excelling in a few areas such as rocketry. They got their initial victories mostly on the basis of superior tactics and organization, not superior kit.


>and under heavy bombing.
Which only really got to critical levels in 1943. Most of the weapon design was actually done before that, you realize.

>Gas chambers were certainly not like that (IF it was the killing mean), and as long as this history page is displayed like that (let's be honnest ffs, this layout can't work) there will be deniers.
Then why do you have guys like Robert Van Pelt, whom I might add has a PHD in architectural history, and seems eminently convinced that these are plausible designs?

>>3249192
>The facts show that a big bunch of civilians wer killed
The facts also show some of them were killed in gas chambers.

If American edutcation can't fit it into a narrative believable to 100% of it´s victims, that's another problem.

>>3249007
>overwhelingly based on population data, which they almost have to be, given how much of the holocaust happened outside of Auschwitz.
No, fundamentally no, supposedly 6 million Jews died in the camps when population estimates show that the WW 2 as a whole killed about 3-4 million
>But pretty much nobody uses the Soviet estimates of Auschwtiz's capacity.
They still technically use Soviet remade evidence to this day

>>3248743
Found that pasta , I think it's from stormfront. Genuinely curious what your response is

>At what rate could German cremation ovens fully cremate bodies (i.e. fulfil the definition of cremation), and does this rate have a basis in reality? How many bodies were fully cremated?

>Prove that the Third Reich was capable of constructing ovens that could cremate millions of people within the time frame. They had a finite amount of ovens, and stacking multiple bodies into one oven doesn't actually speed up the reaction, putting each body into one oven is actually a faster method (because there is more surface area exposed to the heat). The definition of cremation does not reference bones anywhere, which means the cremation process was carried out in full. If it takes 2-3 hours to cremate a body (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHBaCZ3slis, [Embed] http://www.butlerfuneralhomes.com/_mgxroot/page_10745.php, http://www.cremationresource.org/cremation/how-is-a-body-cremated.html) with modern cremation ovens, does the math add up? You can over-hype the engineering capability of the Germans all you want, but for the rest of us in reality, that is not an argument.

>For example, according to this source (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/augas.html), it states: Crematorium I operated [at Auschwitz] from August 15, 1940 until July 1943. According to calculations by the German authorities, 340 corpses could be burned every 24 hours after the installation of the three furnaces.

>>3249679
It's pretty long

>August 1940- July 1943 is equivalent to 2 years and 11 months. Let's assume that each month is thirty days long, for convenience. So that is 24 hours*30 days per month)*(35 months)=25,200 hours. If Crematorium I operates at 340 bodies per 24 hours, parcelled equally per each furnace (three furnaces), that is a rate of about 113 bodies per furnace per day, which is about 4-5 bodies per hour per furnace. That is not possible, it takes much longer to cremate a body than 12-13 minutes PER BODY.

>From the same source: The Crematorium II building, which contained a gas chamber and furnaces for burning corpses. Several hundred thousand Jewish men, women and children were murdered here with poison gas, and their bodies burned. The bodies of Jewish and non-Jewish prisoners who died in the concentration camp were also burned here. According to calculations by the German authorities, 1,440 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours.

>>3249684
>This does nothing to specify how many furnaces were at play. Let us assume that it meant a single furnace. That means that a single oven could burn 60 bodies per hour, which means that fully cremating a human body to ash in ovens that are now eighty years old would take just one minute. This is mathematically impossible. Let us assume that there were 10 ovens. This means that a single furnace could burn 6 bodies per hour, which is a single body every ten minutes. This is also impossible. Let us assume that 100 ovens were used. This means that a single furnace/oven could fully cremate a human body one hour and 40 minutes. Only when we assume that 100 ovens were being used around the clock, without maintenance repair, or any other coincidence, is it even remotely possible to claim that the figures were being met. Keep in mind, as the narrative stands today, over one million Jews were gassed and cremated at Auschwitz. Our ovens today cannot match this efficiency. And you expect everybody to believe that the Germans could do that simply because it fits the story you wish to believe?

>From the same source, the third Crematorium has the same figures. The fourth and fifth crematoria have different ones, though. It states: According to calculations by the German authorities, 768 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours. According to the testimony of former prisoners, the figure was higher.

>>3249698
>Again, let us make the same assumptions that gradually increase.
One furnace=32 bodies per hour. Impossible.
Ten furnaces=3.2 bodies per hour, or one body every 30 minutes. Not possible.
100 furnaces=1 body every 3 or so hours. >Plausible, assuming no coincidences/malfunction. The narrative does not rely upon this many furnaces.

>The story is simply flawed.
If cremation is defined as "dispose of (a dead person's body) by burning it to ashes, typically after a funeral ceremony", then it is not for "aesthetic" purposes. It is actually more efficient to load each body into a separate oven, as opposed to jamming them all into one oven, by the logic of the surface area required for the heat to interact with. Again, a crematorium oven is a crematorium oven, by definition. It is not apples to oranges, but you make it so by putting "civilian" in front of it. Again, if you have access to advanced technology, it is only logical to use it in order to advance your business. Why wait 2-3 hours, when you can speed it up down to your claims, as sourced by you.

>"A lot has been said about cremation capacity and rates of the crematoria in Auschwitz, which allows to screen the testimonies for corroborating and converging features. Carlo Mattogno has compiled a list of 17 accounts in ATCFS, p. 319. Following the former Jewish Sonderkommando and SS men, the cremation capacity of all 4 crematoria in Birkenau was 4,000 - 10,000 corpses per day, which was achieved by loading each muffle opening with 2 - 5 corpses every 15 to 30 minutes."

>>3249702
>Why not use this technology? Why assume that "civilian ovens" have not caught up to these rates? It is purely to maintain an arbitrary narrative, try and put your bias aside and look at things objectively. What reasoning do modern "civilian" ovens have for using inferior technology? Why have "civilian" ovens not, at the very least, advanced to meet the rates the Germans had eighty years ago? Technological advancements are advancing on an exponential curve, would it not follow that, if the advanced tech existed, a business would use it? Why claim that they are not the same thing, when you are not helping the comparison by adding "civilian" in front of the cremation oven?

That's it.

>>3249698
>Our ovens today cannot match this efficiency.
That's old as fuck and debunked sophistry. Modern furnaces have to burn people respectfully and one by one. The corpses they burn are also normal people, not those zombies we know the camps.
There were documents from the company which provided the ovens which provided numbers on the productivity of the ovens. The productivity was higher than the Germans needed.

Look it up if you want, as I said it's old and debunked.

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>>3249663
>No, fundamentally no, supposedly 6 million Jews died in the camps
This is completely wrong. 6 million is the total number of Jews deliberately killed by Nazis of all causes and includes both camp and non-camp deaths.

>population estimates show that the WW 2 as a whole killed about 3-4 million
Funny how groups like the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry do not in fact come up with those estimates. Neither do the Nazis own internal estimations about the Jewish population of Europe support a 3-4 million overall claim.

>>3249679
>>Prove that the Third Reich was capable of constructing ovens that could cremate millions of people within the time frame. They had a finite amount of ovens, and stacking multiple bodies into one oven doesn't actually speed up the reaction, putting each body into one oven is actually a faster method (because there is more surface area exposed to the heat). The definition of cremation does not reference bones anywhere, which means the cremation process was carried out in full. If it takes 2-3 hours to cremate a body
First off, this is simply wrong. From page 124-5 of the following PDF, https://ia802607.us.archive.org/11/items/cremationdead00eassgoog/cremationdead00eassgoog.pdf

Detailing cremation times of an adult in less than one hour with an adult body in an 1875; modern cremation times of hours have to do with regulations, not to do with technology. Furthermore, the multiple burning issue is simply incorrect, and in fact the instructions on the furnaces would indicate that for maximum performance, multiple bodies should be burned at once. https://ia600201.us.archive.org/29/items/JCPAuschwitzTechniqueAndOperationOfTheGasChambers/JCP%20Auschwitz%20Technique%20and%20Operation%20of%20the%20Gas%20Chambers.pdf (Page 136)

Minor correction to last one
>>3249724
, it's not exactly multiple burning in the sense of throw two bodies on at once that's being instructed; rather, it's to allow for most of the body to be consumed or at least burned brittle, and when the skulls and thighs and other large bones are the only things left, throw in another body.
>>3249684
This is simply working off of their own wrong assumptions and proceeding from there. Not to mention that if we look at the Germans own documents, you can see Krema 1 had 3 furnaces with double muffles, which means they're cutting capacity in half right off the bat.

>>3249702
>Ten furnaces=3.2 bodies per hour, or one body every 30 minutes. Not possible.
It is eminently possible, and I'm not sure on what basis he's so high highhandedly dismissing it.

> is actually more efficient to load each body into a separate oven, as opposed to jamming them all into one oven, by the logic of the surface area required for the heat to interact with.
Why is he treating the bodies as completely unconductive of heat? Why is he assuming every body is an adult? Or in fact has the same weight such that they'd be crammed in on each other?

>Why wait 2-3 hours, when you can speed it up down to your claims, as sourced by you.
Why is the speed of cremation so relevant for a funeral home? Generally, they aren't trying to reduce bodies to ash as quickly as possible, and they're often burdened by a bunch of health and safety regulations in things like they turn the ovens completely off and give them good sweepings between incinerations. I mean I get your guy is asserting it, but why is that to be the case?

>>3249704
Why haven't they caught on to the methods used in 1875? Why haven't the Germans? Because this is part and parcel in the analysis. It's almost like different groups have different priorities and will develop based on that.

tl;dr, the argument is pretty hogwash.

>>3249211
>What is this "official history narrative" you speak of?
History books.

>not only the gas chambers ... but the ghetto starvation plans and the mass shootings out in the Soviet Union
This is right. These people were killed in many ways. But the gas chambers as displayed simply don't work as effective mean. Just try to figure the stupid mess it would be, keep in mind that this is a complicated and dangerous process that is supposed to have been applied to kill m.i.l.l.i.o.n.s of people (try to count to one million in your head...).

>What advanced weapons?
Heavy tanks, jet planes, balistic missiles, assault rifles... Good or not theses things take a solid administration and supply line to take shape. And suddenly they weren't able to figure a credible process to kill defenseless people?

>Then why do you have guys like Robert Van Pelt...
I just don't buy it. History of architecture is made of countless theories and denials, and we still don't know for sure how the Pyramids were built. It's not a shock to admit "we don't know" in this matter. Plus it's illegal to say otherwise concerning this particular case, no wonder you'll only find scholars confirming the official version.


What I mean is: millions civilians intentionaly killed? Sure, it matches the mood of the period. In gas chambers? Uh, why not, let's have fun (although this is utterly stupid). These very gas chambers as described on sites? Fucking no, even if it was feasible (a big IF), this is just so retarded I don't understand why people dare suggest it.

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>>3240379
Just give them the Dresden Pill anon. The Dresden pill ass blasts Nazis to the moon and back. Most of them are too stupid to even get it

>>3249716
>sophistry
Except it's not, modern cremation ovens are meant to be people efficiently not peacefully unless it's a type of oven where people are meant to mourn during the process. Burning up Jane / John does is different

>>3249878
Please, cite this supposition of yours. Where exactly do you hear a funeral home director saying "I really wish we could burn bodies faster, but it's just not possible"

>>3240379
It still didn't happen.

>>3249724
>This is completely wrong. 6 million is the total number of Jews deliberately killed by Nazis of all causes and includes both camp and non-camp deaths.
No the claim has been 6 million Jews in camps, 12 million overall for jews, and 20 million for the whole holocuats depending on who you ask
>Neither do the Nazis own internal estimations about the Jewish population of Europe support a 3-4 million overall claim.
Weird because there are still studies that say 3-4 million
>Pdf
Details a very specially made oven made to speed up the process of cremation , the ones the Nazis had we're not the same oven and were mass produced in haste

As for that jpg, it's false according to many skeptics and believers alike
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10214

>>3249759
>It is eminently possible, and I'm not sure on what basis he's so high highhandedly dismissing it.
Not true, the oven you highlighted in that PDF is not the same oven
>Why is he treating the bodies as completely unconductive of heat? Why is he assuming every body is an adult? Or in fact has the same weight such that they'd be crammed in on each other?
He is not, he is talking in terms of overall surface area and heat exposure it would be more efficient to have in single units than stuff multiple bodies into a single oven or like
>>3248723
^^^^^ this survivor claims , multiple living bodies thrown into an inferno all at once

>>3249890
Please cite this supposition of yours? John and Jane does are usually cremated in haste after no one claims the bodies for a long time, I assumed this was common knowledge? Isn't this likewise presumptive that the Nazis would abandon safety regulations in the camps when it came to guards , as putting so much stress on the ovens could harm the health / injure an aryan, if we are to assume that the Jews are to be treated like literal animals as well.

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>>3249939
Do you have a reading problem, a thinking problem, or an honesty problem? Cite that "Modern cremation ovens are meant to be (I assume you mean burn) people efficiently and not peacefully", which is clearly understood from the following part of my sentence.

> as putting so much stress on the ovens could harm the health / injure an aryan,
Soderkommandos were drawn from the ranks of prisoners.

>>3249950
It varies state to state in the US, and when local governments don't give people the money for the burial of an unidentified corpse they use the cheapest means available.
>You stupid?
No, you? You seem to be at a loss for words as evidenced by your lack in refutation
>Sonderkommandos were prisoners
Overseen by guards

>>3240848
SILESIA IS DEUTSCH

>>3249975
>It varies state to state in the US, and when local governments don't give people the money for the burial of an unidentified corpse they use the cheapest means available.
That's not a citation. That's a self-serving juistification. And a stupid as shit one, because apparently you think it would be cheaper to build two fucking incinerators per funeral home (by the way, most of these are privately owned), one that burns fast when a John doe comes in, and another that burns slower when they want a mourning procedure.

>No, you? You seem to be at a loss for words as evidenced by your lack in refutation
Since you fundamentally haven't even addressed my refutation, this is really rich. PROVE your supposition that modern funeral homes are looking to incinerate bodies as quickly as technologically possible.

>>3249909
>No the claim has been 6 million Jews in camps, 12 million overall for jews, and 20 million for the whole holocuats depending on who you ask
It is not.
http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/HolocaustAppendices.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481975/The-Holocaust-death-toll.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10008193

>Details a very specially made oven made to speed up the process of cremation
Where does it say this?

>the ones the Nazis had we're not the same oven and were mass produced in haste
No they weren't. You're also convienently overlooking 75 years of technological advancement.

>As for that jpg, it's false according to many skeptics and believers alike
Weird then, how again very prominent scholars like Pressac and Van Pelt argue for its veracity, and the most that they'll say against it is that it was a technically possible maximum, and not an operationally possible maximum. It also mentions a trio of double muffle ovens, so again, you're either lying or just forgetting half of Krema 1's capacity.

>Not true, the oven you highlighted in that PDF is not the same oven
No shit sherlock. Why does that make a 30 minute cremation time impossible, especially if you are burning faster or multiple bodies or burning children?

>He is not, he is talking in terms of overall surface area and heat exposure it would be more efficient to have in single units than stuff multiple bodies into a single oven or like
Yes, he is bullshitting.
http://www.phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/
Start with a search for "The practice of multiple cremations was known outside of Germany well before World War II."

>>3248860
Why don't you post one then?

>>3250033
>It is not
*It is depending on who you ask
https://www.google.com/amp/www.jta.org/2017/01/31/news-opinion/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians/amp
>Where does it say this?
In the PDF you linked me to? Did you not read chapter you linked me to?
>No they weren't
*Yes they were
>Weird then...must be lying
Nope read the link I gave you
>Why does that make a 30 minute cremation time impossible,
Because they aren't the same ovens and there is no indication that the average time it took to burn a body was 30 minutes in Auschwitz...
>especially if you are burning faster or multiple bodies or burning children?
>Faster
How
>Multiple bodies
Can't be done
>Children
Maybe a 2 children could go into it and count as 1 single adult body sure
>Start with a search for "The practice of multiple cremations was known outside of Germany well before World War II."
On mobile just copy pasta

>>3250001
>one that burns fast when a John doe comes in, and another that burns slower when they want a mourning procedure.
>There has to be 2 cremation ovens in one facility
Or maybe one facility specializes in one method of cremation or the maybe the cremation oven that can burn slower also has the capacity to burn bodies faster when needed? Lol
>PROVE your supposition that modern funeral homes are looking to incinerate bodies as quickly as technologically possible.
PROVE your supposition that modern funeral homes aren't looking to incinerate bodies as quickly as technologically possible.

>>3250075
>*It is depending on who you ask
>11 million men, women & children, including 6 million Jews, perished in the Holocaust. Keep their memory alive.

Notice how that doesn't say anything about the distinction between Jewish camp deaths and Jewish deaths outside the camps. Then the article talks entirely about non-Jewish holocaust deaths. You are very likely being deliberately dishonest. On the very off chance that you're not, you're being incredibly ignorant.

>In the PDF you linked me to? Did you not read chapter you linked me to?

I did, you clearly did not.
>The most perfect apparatus, however, yet devised for the reduction of a body to ashes is that developed by Sir Henry Thompson. From his work upon cremation I take the following description, which will always be studied with interest.

Nowhere does it say that it was "Specially designed for speed" just that it was designed well.

>*Yes they were
They were ordered in the summer of 1942. They were not completed until a year later. They were not slapped together at the last minute. See Franciszek Piper, "Gas Chambers and Crematoria", in Yisrael Gutman and Michael Berenbaum, eds., Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp (Bloomington:1994), 157-182 for an overview

>Nope read the link I gave you
>Ctrl+f 'pressac'
>One mention about how it was not achieved in practice, but not denying the veracity of the document
>ctrl+f 'van pelt'
>1 mention, unconnected to the document, but actually talking about the previous point, how they were ordered in August 1942, but by a year later, only 6 of the muffles of a planned 45 were operating.
You were saying?

>>3250075
Because they aren't the same ovens and there is no indication that the average time it took to burn a body was 30 minutes in Auschwitz...
You are the one making the stupid ass argument that the ovens at Auschwitz are clearly incapable of burning any faster due to how modern ovens take 2+ hours to burn. I've been citing the actual documentation the Nazis produced to indicate their real cremation times, and brought up the 1875 ovens to demonstrate how that 2 hour of a modern oven is not particularly fast and is easily beatable even with much more primitive technology.

You want indication that the average time it took to burn a body? I'll use the German documentation. Done.

>How
Didn't you read the link I sent you? I'll give it again.

http://www.phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/
>Can't be done
Yes it can. Read the link.

>On mobile just copy pasta
It's literally pages long, I would need multiple posts. Read it when you get off your phone.

>>3250084
>PROVE your supposition that modern funeral homes aren't looking to incinerate bodies as quickly as technologically possible.
I didn't make the claim, you did.>>3249878

>modern cremation ovens are meant to be people efficiently not peacefully

Prove it.

>>3250109
>You are very likely being deliberately dishonest
I'm not , I tried to give you an example that shows the narrative of total.amount of holocaust death varies by historian and study
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9906771/Nazis-may-have-killed-up-to-20m-claims-shocking-new-Holocaust-study.html
>I did, you clearly did not.
No, it's obvious I did and you clearly did not. Just go back and read it lmao
>Nowhere does it say that it was "Specially designed for speed" just that it was designed well.
Define well if it does not mean efficiency. Did it look pretty? Was it cheap?
>They were not completed until a year later.
>Because the building process took a long time it means they were well made
You really don't know much about construction projects, huh?
>You were saying?
Read the link don't just ctr f lmao , I brought up the link to disprove the jpg you brought up. This thread isn't going anywhere just read it yet it isn't that much.

>>3249909
>No the claim has been 6 million Jews in camps, 12 million overall for jews, and 20 million for the whole holocuats depending on who you ask
What historian claims this?

>>3250110
>You are the one making the stupid ass argument that the ovens at Auschwitz are clearly incapable of burning any faster due to how modern ovens take 2+ hours to burn
Modern ovens are not the ones who take that long to burn, it's the older ovens which take so long to burn it's that they can't compare to modern ovens. You had a fee examples of specially made ovens being faster but those were not the ovens in Auschwitz.
The reason why it's ridiculous that to even be talking about this is because it assumed the ovens were at max capacity 24/7 to accomplish the death toll. Read that link on the revisionist forum I gave you and you'll see that I'm also saying they were not always active...

>>3250139
>What historian claims this?
Hartmut Berghoff apparently

>>3250114
No, you did
>>3249716

>>3250110
>Read it when you get off your phone.
Right, so tomorrow then

>>3246863
That is a bad argument, while the ME was inefficient it's production was aimed, logically, at ending the war by providing the Germans who had a dwindling pilot pool with superior aircraft.
>>3246843
>>3246948
Awful argumentation, while not successful these were created, logically, with the intent of winning the war. Jilling your slave labor force is not logical, these, although ineffectual, were.

>>3246972
Kristallnacht was im response to the assassination of the German Ambassador by a Zionist Jew. Pogroms occurred predominantly in Russia and Ukraine.

>>3247059
>>3247060
>>3247080
These are all typhus victims, which were killed by typhus, spread by lice. What can paralyze or kill lice? Zyklon B.

>>3249663
>>3249909
>it's ANOTHER stormfag argues about the holocaust but doesn't even know what historians claim episode

>>3250283
Stormfags seem to be under the impression that simply claiming something is an argument.

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>>3250292
>It's a ledditor doesn't read the thread episode
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9906771/Nazis-may-have-killed-up-to-20m-claims-shocking-new-Holocaust-study.html

>>3250310
>it's a /pol/tard spergs in /his/ while knowing shit about history and calling others redditors episode
I understand that being a stormfag implies that the closer you've gotten to any kind of academic research is reading sensationalist newspaper articles that you've seen spammed in /pol/, but it's a retarded argument to anyone with half a brain. The fact is that the academic consensus is what the other anon posted, and a news article (which doesn't even say what you claim) is not a refutation of this. You could at least pretend not to be a /pol/tard linking to an article you saw spammed by posting the peer reviewed paper with that victim toll, if it even exists (probably not). Then again, since the article doesn't say that "6 million Jews died in the camps" or that "12 million overall for jews", what's the point?

>>3250310
>>3250331
Also, the number mentioned in the article is for dead + imprisoned, not for dead, the title is shit and you are an idiot.

>>3250344
It's not imprisoned OR killed, it's imprisoned AND killed you moron

>>3250331
They cited an academic study done by professional historians.
>The new figures of 15 to 20 million, which have astonished some Holocaust historians, come after thirteen years of painstaking study at

>Washington's Holocaust Memorial Museum.
^^^^^↑^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Historians at the museum brought together and studied the huge amount, and often disparate, files and research on the Holocaust.

>The research covered some 42,400 camps and ghettos across Europe, and also included forced-labour camps and Nazi "care" centres where pregnant women were forced to have an abortion or had their child killed right after giving birth. It also drew in camps, prisons and killing grounds used by Nazi puppet regimes in countries such as France and Romania.

>The number of locations is almost double previous estimates made by the same institution and, all told, they may have imprisoned and killed between 15 to 20 million people.

"The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought,"

>Hartmut Berghoff, director of the German Historical Institute in America,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^↑^^^^^^
>said in an interview after learning of the new data. "We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was but the numbers are unbelievable.

Read the links moron

>>3250427
False. While the article is ambiguous, here's a slightly less sensationalist article about the same study:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunday-review/the-holocaust-just-got-more-shocking.html
>The lead editors on the project, Geoffrey Megargee and Martin Dean, estimate that 15 million to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the sites that they have identified as part of a multivolume encyclopedia.
Notice the "or". It also states that:
>The documented camps include not only “killing centers” but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named “care” centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.
Also, the research was carried out by the holocaust memorial museum, which states very clearly that:
>The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143

Again, this is irrelevant because 1. Linking to newspapers in a discussion about academic consensus is retarded and clearly shows your ignorance (not about the subject in particular but about science in general), and 2. the article doesn't state what you claimed anyway.
The fact is that you are an ignorant /pol/tard trying to discuss about a subject you know nothing about.

>>3250458
Do you have reading comprehension problems? Please refer to >>3250465, I don't want to repeat myself.

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>>3250143
You are now aware that there is more than one person in this thread responding to you.

>>3250133
>I'm not , I tried to give you an example that shows the narrative of total.amount of holocaust death varies by historian and study
Liar.
>>3249909
>No the claim has been 6 million Jews in camps, 12 million overall for jews, and 20 million for the whole holocuats depending on who you ask
Show me a claim that says there were 6 million Jews killed, just in the camps, and 12 million overall Jews killed.

>No, it's obvious I did and you clearly did not. Just go back and read it lmao
I have cited the text in question. You are a liar.
>Define well if it does not mean efficiency. Did it look pretty? Was it cheap?
It was overall well, it reduced the bodies quickly, to a consistent pile of ash, which did not smell bad or anything. There is no mention that any of these qualities were emphasized over any others.

>You really don't know much about construction projects, huh?
Do you? Please, show me the construction time on other crematoria for comparison, since these are obviously slapped together quickly. How fast did it take Mr. Thompson to build his?

>Read the link don't just ctr f lmao , I brought up the link to disprove the jpg you brought up. This thread isn't going anywhere just read it yet it isn't that much.
You made the claim. Show me where in this thread that Holocaust historians do not believe the VERACITY (not necessarily that it was not technically feasible) of the document.

>>3250140
>Modern ovens are not the ones who take that long to burn, it's the older ovens which take so long to burn
You have not proven this. At all. You haven't brought up one iota of evidence to this fact.

>You had a fee examples of specially made ovens being faster

You haven't shown that these were "specially made ovens" any more than any other oven ever is "specially made".

>but those were not the ovens in Auschwitz.
You havne't shown those ones were slow either.

>The reason why it's ridiculous that to even be talking about this is because it assumed the ovens were at max capacity 24/7 to accomplish the death toll.
No it isn't. Well, maybe you are, but those of us who actually read the Topf documentation don't make such stupid assumptions.

>Read that link on the revisionist forum I gave you and you'll see that I'm also saying they were not always active...
Read the Topf documents.


>>3250142
No, Berghoff claims that the number of people interned (which is both not restricted to just Jews and of course not all of them were killed) was 15-20 million.

>>3250427
>>3250458
>>3250465
Here's the encyclopedia by the way.
https://www.ushmm.org/research/publications/encyclopedia-camps-ghettos
The two volumes out right now are available for free, you can check them. I suggest you try researching shit for once instead of relying on propaganda spammed by /pol/. Spoiler: it doesn't claim what you made up before.

>>3250498
>Liar
Liar
amp/www.jta.org/2017/01/31/news-opinion/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians/amp
>Show me
Just did. It varies from historian to historian. Where does this hive mind of the historian come from exactly, are they telepathic?
>quickly
Good then you agreed with me that those ovens were specially designed to fast and we're not the same ovens used in Auschwitz
>You are a liar
You haven't even read your citations. That pretty sad t b h
>Do you?
Yes. Time taken to complete a project does not mean said project turned out well a priori
>You made the claim. Show me where in this thread that Holocaust historians do not believe the VERACITY (not necessarily that it was not technically feasible) of the document.
Hey if you're not going to.copy pasta for me then I'm not going to do it for you. You're afraid of reading that link aren't you? Hmm. pathetic.

>>3250537
https://www.google.com/amp/www.jta.org/2017/01/31/news-opinion/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians/amp

Woops fucked up the link

>>3250465
>False. While the article is ambiguous, here's a slightly less sensationalist article about the same study:
Except the premise I was using was that there are variations on how the holocaust supposedly affected people.This is still a variation among historians who do not have a consensus on the matter. This entire tangent was on that point just to remind you :^)

>>3250465
>The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators.
M8, has it occurred to you that they just haven't updated their website yet?
>Inb4 it's been 4 years
You'd be surprised

>>3250542
Not the person you are arguing with, but it's pretty telling that stormniggers keep linking to news articles that were spammed in /pol/ instead of actual academic works. Let me suggest two causes: you retards do not actually read academic works on history, and there is such a consensus on the subject that you'd have a hard time finding the odd paper that would disagree.

In regards to the article, it is about a butthurt jew that doesn't vary his estimations of jewish victims (6 million) and admits that "the term 'genocide' could accurately be applied to the 2 million to 3 million Poles murdered and millions more enslaved by the Nazis" plus others but doesn't want to include them in the "holocaust". It's academic value and relevance to the discussion is obviously null and it's only spammed to further a narrative.

>>3250553
>Except the premise I was using was that there are variations on how the holocaust supposedly affected people.
No, you made very specific claims about diverging death tolls which were false. You then tried to sustain them by linking to an sensationalist news article that you saw at /pol/ and took at face value because you have no critical thinking, that didn't even claim what you said. An article talking about the research of an organization that doesn't estimate a different death toll. And now you are in full damage control.

>>3250562
>M8, has it occurred to you that they just haven't updated their website yet?
Are you braindead? They do not claim that the jewish death toll is higher than that.

>>3250576
>Everyone who disagrees with me isn't academic
Lmao
>You can't find people who disagree with the holocaust
Well I guess because they disagree with you they HAVE to be un-academic lmao the sheer amount dissonance...

>>3250590
Please, feel free to get your history from shitty news articles spammed in a neonazi board from a chinese cartoon forum and refute one of the most researched events in history based on them.

>>3250587
>No, you made very specific claims about diverging death tolls which were false.
No, the entire point I was making is that there isn't as much of a consensus on the death toll of the holocaut as you presume. That was always the point.
>Something /pol/.
>Something something you're stupid etc
Hey at least I can read.
>Doesn't disagree with the death toll
*Except I gave you an instance where someone claimed 11 million Jews died in the Holocaust, and all you did was click the encylopedia link which you followed from the link I gave you, which for all you know could indicate that they abandoned this study once it was peer reviewed or they haven't updated the site.

Saying anything else is blatant damage control on your part

>>3250609
>No, the entire point I was making is that there isn't as much of a consensus on the death toll of the holocaut as you presume. That was always the point.
Which is false.

>Hey at least I can read.
>*Except I gave you an instance where someone claimed 11 million Jews died in the Holocaust
You obviously cannot read because nobody claimed that.

>>3250587
>They do not claim that the jewish death toll is higher than that.
Except in the intro article you talked about, they don't listen their own study when they 6 million Jews died :^)

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143

>>3250619
?

>>3250618
>Which is false.
*True, just proof you've lost track of the conversation
>Nobody claimed that
>The “5 million” has driven Holocaust historians to distraction ever since Wiesenthal started to peddle it in the 1970s. Wiesenthal told the Washington Post in 1979, “I have sought with Jewish leaders not to talk about 6 million Jewish dead, but rather about 11 million civilians dead, including 6 million Jews.”
>Inb4 you claim that Deborah lipstadt is a revisionist somehow
https://www.google.com/amp/www.jta.org/2017/01/31/news-opinion/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians/amp

>>3250627
...in other words by not citing their own study in the article they aren't actually giving their own estimate of the death toll of Jews in the Holocaust , which they said was probably more than 6 million?

>>3250631
>True, just proof you've lost track of the conversation
>The “5 million” has driven Holocaust historians to distraction ever since Wiesenthal started to peddle it in the 1970s. Wiesenthal told the Washington Post in 1979, “I have sought with Jewish leaders not to talk about 6 million Jewish dead, but rather about 11 million civilians dead, including 6 million Jews.”
I'm honestly starting to think you are actually mentally damaged and cannot read. The quote you posted talks about a death toll of 6 millions jews and 5 million non jews, which is the accepted death toll. Are you on drugs or something?

>>3250639
>which they said was probably more than 6 million?
They didn't.

>>3250643
>Are you on drugs or something?
M8... The entire point of the narrative is that people have disagreed on the number of people killed by the holocuast. I gave you a specific instance of when people have disagreed.

Are you drugs? Ffs this is getting preposterous. Whether the agreement is in the increasing or decreasing of the total death toll doesn't matter.

Either way we have gone on a massive tangent because you've refused to actually read the link I gave you

>>3250650
>I gave you a specific instance of when people have disagreed.
No, you didn't. The accepted death toll is around 6 million jews and 5 million non jews. You posted a quote of a guy talking about 6 million jews and 5 million non jews. I suspect I should be on whatever drug stormniggers take to understand how this exemplifies a disagreement.

>Whether the agreement is in the increasing or decreasing of the total death toll doesn't matter.
It didn't either way.

>>3250650
Here is another estimate
>One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic “The Destruction of the European Jews.” In the third edition, from 1985, he provides a lengthy appendix explaining how he calculated the estimate.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.haaretz.com/amp/jewish/features/.premium-1.540880

Alright? There ARE conflicting estimates within the narrative of the Holocaust.

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10214
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just read the damn link, I'm tired of trying to get you into the mindset of understanding other perspectives

>>3250662
The death toll is 12 million not 11. To is article.also literally says that the 5 million death toll of non-jews is a lie

>>3250669
>I'm tired of trying to get you into the mindset of understanding other perspectives
You are getting your information from a negationist forum without even understanding what historians claim, and complain about "the mindset of understanding other perspectives". Refutals of Mattogno are easy to find.

>>3250680
If you even bothered to read the damn article
>The number 5 million also adheres to no known understanding of the number of non-Jews killed by the Nazis: While as many as 35 million people were killed overall because of Nazi aggression, the number of non-Jews who died in the concentration camps is no more than half a million, Bauer said.

>>3250680
The death toll is an estimated range. Sure, sometimes 11 and sometimes 12 million are mentioned.

>To is article.also literally says that the 5 million death toll of non-jews is a lie
Already answered. The guy admits that 3 million poles and millions of others were in fact killed but doesn't want to include them in the "holocaust". It's about a jewish crybaby that doesn't want to share the "holocaust" name and not about a historic debate.

>>3250696
The Holocaust is a specific part of the supposed mass genocide committed by the Germans on other people. Even a lot of deniers do not deny the existence of einzatsgruppen and the use of hunger as a weapons against partisans and the Soviets

Fucks sake man

>>3250669
if holocaust """""""""""""revisionists""""""""""""""" ever want to be taken seriously and thought of something other than antisemitic with ties to all kinds of hate groups, they need to come up with theories and answers to simple questions like:

If the Jews that were "evacuated to the east" were really evacuated, where did they end up? Where are they? Why have family members who have been looking for them for over 70 years never been able to contact them since?

>>3250715
check out the holocaust handbooks work on jewish emigration under the third reich, dels with thuis issue directly

>>3250713
And? Deniers by definition deny that the genocide happened. The guy in the article says genocide did happen, both against jews and non jews.

>>3250715
if holocaust """""""""""""believers""""""""""""""" ever want to be taken seriously and thought of something other than antisemitic with ties to all kinds of hate groups, they need to come up with theories and answers to simple questions like:

How many Jews died to starvation from Nazi and Soviet Scorched Earth Earth policies and food collectivization, why is it assumed that all of these people died due to an industrialized eugenics program instead, how many people are you talking about when you say they are still looking for their families and why do you assume they are dead and not just missing for 70 years, do you even understand how chaotic the world is? You realize they didn't have internet or face book back then to look up and see a status update of where someone was, right?

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>>3250734
>why do you assume they are dead and not just missing for 70 years, do you even understand how chaotic the world is? You realize they didn't have internet or face book back then to look up and see a status update of where someone was, right?
>this is the state of stormfaggotry

>>3250726
>Emigration
The magical program where Jews were allowed to leave Germany to Palestine (and had to leave behind all their possessions and assets) ended when the war started.

What if they weren't German Citizens? 3.3 Million Jews lived in Poland, 85% of them disappeared during the war, were did they end up? Again where are they?

>>3250740
More importantly, there are train records of jews going to death camps and never coming out.

>>3250729
>Deniers by definition deny that the genocide happened
They deny that the Holocaust happened, not that mass death occurred in WW2. Stormfags don't deny the einzatgruppen existed, they don't deny that the Nazis collectivizes food sources to spite the Russians and partisans, and they don't deny that mass killings occurred under German rule either. They just deny that there was an industrializedeugenics eugenics program carried out in concentration camps (the Holocaust). You might get some to deny how many were killed under the hunger plan and einzatgruppen , but they happened all the same.
>You can find opposition on x
Okay, you can find opposition and refutation to a lot of stuff.Being refuted does not make you wrong in itself.

>>3250739
>Ignores the rest of the comment
I guess you missed that part where I inplied that most of the people who were still looking for family.members had said members starve in some remote place in Russia... Then I commented that whoever might actually still be alive would probably have problems contacting relatives thinking they were dead or had fleed far away from Europe never to be seen again.

I see you still lack reading comprehension skills

>>3250753
>They (...)
I don't see how this is a response to anything I said.

>Being refuted does not make you wrong in itself.
Maybe in magical stormfag doublethink something can be simultaneously true and refuted.

>>3250740
Starved to death, fled, were killed either by the Soviet death squads or German death squads, died of disease... this does not mean there was an industrialized eugenics program that did stuff like
>>3248723
Pic related.

>>3250759
>who were still looking for family.members had said members starve in some remote place in Russia
[citation needed]
Oh wait, the mountains of evidence related to the holocaust are all faked, lies, forgeries, propaganda, etc. but you believe whatever you want without the slightest evidence right?

>millions of jews in poland
>an explicitly genocidal foreign leader invades poland
>polish jews rounded in ghettos and deported in mass
>train records show millions of jews being deported to death camps and never coming out
>plenty of documentation from said camps demanding more and more cremation capacity, gas tight doors, gas, etc.
>thousands of testimonies, both from nazis and from survivors, both jews and non jews, related to genocide plus mountains of documents
>forensic evidence proving homicidal gassing
>deported jews magically disappear
>jewish population in poland practically vanished
>b-b-b-b-b-b-but they probably magically fled to russia and starved there!
I WANT TO BELIEVE

>>3250762
>I don't see how this is a response to anything I said
The holocaust in itself is only a part of the national socialist programs meant to supposedly establish a lebensraum. One part of a genocide, it doesn't refer to the genocide in itself. When we say holocaust we mean what happened in the camps.
>Refutation in itself means something is false
>The holocaust is real
>I refute because x
Well they you go, the Holocaust isn't real anymore, might as well pack up your bags and leave the thread.

>>3250767
>it's an I've never dealt with primary sources episode

>>3248101
You don't know however whether the 10,000 testimonies are as gruesome as the stories of holocaust go, though. It may be that all of the exaggerated bullshit was false and the half that remained of all the testimonies were of the 'meeker' kind, of just concentration, disease and starvation.

Until we find a source for anything specific we can't just assume the remaining 10,000 are on either side of the argument.

>>3250782
>When we say holocaust we mean what happened in the camps.
False. Again, you don't even know what you are trying to refute.

>Well they you go, the Holocaust isn't real anymore, might as well pack up your bags and leave the thread.
Sure, if you were able to refute it. Please take a logic class, you really need it.

>>3250734
>why is it assumed that all of these people died due to an industrialized eugenics program instead
because there is an overwhelming convergence of evidence to support this fact. I will list some 1) hitler speech in which he said he would destroy european jews if war broke out 2) hitler's speech 2 years later boasting about how he was right, and that the jews are not laughing now (both speeches on youtube) 2) eyewitness accounts of hundreds of thousands of people 3) literal tons of documents 4) human remains 5) hundreds of diaries 6) hundreds of photographs taken by the perpetrators themselves 7) diary entries 8) order forms and blueprints of the crematoria and gas chamber 9) the fact that millions of jews last seen in custody of the nazis have never been seen before. Of course these are just generalizations, and you can read about them if you open a book, I can recommend some if you are interested.

>How many Jews died to starvation from Nazi and Soviet Scorched Earth Earth policies and food collectivization
proportionately more than non-jews died during the war. Just an example, we will use poland again, 20% of the total population of poland died during the war. 85% of Polish Jews died during the war. Why would there be such a huge disparity between Polish Jews and non-Jewish Poles?

>why do you assume they are dead and not just missing for 70 years, do you even understand how chaotic the world is?
You realize how stupid this sounds, right? After the war an overwhelming majority of Jews were repatriated back to their country of origin. I would think that at some point in the last 70 years they would try to go back to their house, or their old cities to try and figure out where their mothers/fathers/children, etc were. (even before things such as facebook or the internet were invented, there were jewish organizations who helped hundreds of thousands of people try to find loved ones)

>>3250781
>the mountains of evidence
[Citation needed]
>Testimony from guards
Funny how you mention that
>
In the session of 5th March 1946 the Soviet interrogator wanted to know:[27]

"How many bodies were cremated per hour at Auschwitz?"

Prüfer (builder of the crematorium) responded:
"In a crematory with 5 ovens and 15 muffles, fifteen bodies were cremated."
This means an average cremation time of one hour per body per muffle and indicates that the theoretical maximum capacity of Crematory IV (and each of the ovens of Crematory V as well) in a 24 hour period was 192 bodies.

Huh, hold on a second, it's almost like most people died from starvation and disease instead of some ridiculous mass eugenics program

>>3250785
>It's a has never dealt with primary sources but thinks secondary sources are primary episode
Lmao

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>>3250791
>Holocaust testimonies are reliab-
https://youtu.be/9fqFhsB7URM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria
>Witness testimonies
>Reliable
Someone isn't involved with law

>>3250798
>[Citation needed]
Reminder:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
http://4archive.org/board/his/thread/509405
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

>Prüfer (...)
Searching your quote only yields the neonazi forum from which you copy pasted your post. On the other hand, the first link I posted has several documents related to the cremation capacity according to the nazis.

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>>3250798
>Prüfer
I imagine you are refering to Kurt Prüfer, the head of Topf and Sons?

Sounds exactly like the guy who was in personal correspondence with Himmler in which he wrote that the SS-statistician at Auschwitz declared and "[the crematoria capability] 80,000 bodies per month [at Auschwitz] was insufficient" and that his company would be delivering more. (right click and google search for english translation if you wish)

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>>3250794
>Hitler said he wanted kill all the Jews
Sure doesn't make sense that he had the mishclings program and allowed Jews to serve in the German army, openly, as Jews.
>There were diaries
Some of the claimed Nazis made soap bars and lamp shades out of their skin, lots of testimony also turned out to be fake, and let's not forget pic related
>Hundreds of photographs
Many of them were edited as the Soviets famously edited the soldier on the reichstag
>Blue prints
You still haven't read that fucking link I gave you huh?
>Millions of Jews were sent to trains never to be seen again
No

>>3250819
Hold, on wasn't finished

>SS Kurt Prufer, told the officers of SMERSCH (according to documents found in the Moscow archives) that only one body at a time could be cremated per muffle and that the cremation time took 60 minutes, and that they tried to cremate 2 bodies at a time; but the temperature inside the muffle went so high that it damaged the oven.
and:
- There was a total 52 muffles of Auschwitz, never used simultaneously.

- 38 is the most that were ever online simultaneously.

- The 6 at Auschwitz I were taken out of action as soon as the new ones at Birkenau came online. These were in turn liable to long periods of breakdowns and even idleness.

- If there was a program of mass extermination, the desperate need for cremation capacity is obvious. Why then put six muffles out of action?

>>3250822
In August 1942, at the main camp, 9000 prisoners died. According to Believer & profiteer John Zimmerman, Auschwitz I would have had a cremation capacity of about 4,680 per month (26 per muffle daily on average, as at Gusen).
So the cremation capacity was about half of what it needed to be during the typhus epidemic.
At the same time, the camp was planned to hold an eventual inmate population of 200,000 (a seven-fold increase from August 1942, at less than 30,000).
Therefore, in August 1942, the very month that 'Auschwitz expert' van Pelt claims the homicidal adaptation of the crematoria was initiated, the Auschwitz Bauleitung authorities should have requested a crematoria construction program which should have produced capacities almost 14 times greater than the 6 muffles of Auschwitz I at the time. In 1943, when the camp population reached about 140,000, the number of muffles was just over 6 times greater than August 1942, because Crematorium IV broke down and was not repaired (mothballed) and Crematorium I at the main camp was converted into an air-raid shelter. There were 38 muffles.

>>3250810
Yes, hundreds of thousands of people who don't speak the same language, spread out over all of Europe all shared a mass delusion....

And posting a single eyewitness from youtube is evidence that ALL holocaust testimonies are made up. I am sure you have watched all the youtube videos from all the other survivors who collaborate the mountains of evidence that what they experienced is in fact reliable.

>>3250811
>Sending me into the archives
Now that's desperate
>Ebil Nazi appeal to character
Even worse...

>>3250830
>Yes, hundreds of thousands of people who don't speak the same language, spread out over all of Europe all shared a mass delusion....
Mass hysteria isn't blocked by the language barrier... And eyewitness testimonies are NEVER reliable 10,000 people did not all have the same story to tell, a story was pieces together from bits and pieces which became the main narrative. Even then , it's very unreliable

>>3250825
Why use exactly the same cremation techniques as in normal concentration camps, installing coke-fired ovens, even by the thirties a crude and primitive solution? More efficient gas-fired and electrical crematoria had by this time already been used for years in many countries, including my own. For the purpose the SS should naturally have sought out the most efficient answer they were able to find.

- If the extermination myth was true, the SS must from the start have had some idea of how many victims were to be gassed and burned. It's a simple matter of math, and then naturally founded on estimates made by the constructors, in this case Topf & Söhne. Why then not build the installations required. It doesn't make sense.

>>3250831
>ask for evidence
>receive index of evidence
How desperate.
You have 4000 pages in the two volumes of the encyclopedia posted above if you want something meatier, but /pol/tards are allergic to reading.

>Ebil Nazi appeal to character
Sorry stormnigger, nobody is going to take a quote that only exists in a neonazi forum seriously. The same goes to >>3250822 and >>3250825, even though they aren't responding to me. Don't worry, I don't think you are evil, just retarded.

>>3250842
You realize that within the documents listed are the sources I'm currently using against you, right? Prufer is right at the top , and the not every document is s sacred relic which is true a priori either.

>Unironcally defending argumentum ad hominem WITH ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM
Wew

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>>3250822
I am sure you have this evidence readily available to show me online...or is it just something you heard from someone else? Something as simple as a document such as pic related that show that came from the Nazis at Auschwitz themselves showing that they could burn 4,756 bodies per day at peak optimacy. Doing the math, that equals 1.7 million bodies per year, well within the 1.1 - 1.3 estimated bodies burned in the 2.5 years of operation.

However our friend Kurt Prüfer again stated that (as pointed out here: >>3250825) the nazi numbers were too high and that only 4,680 per day could be burned (NOT PER MONTH as this moron above is trying to sell you, PER DAY. I can provide that document if you wish that clearly states PER DAY)

>>3250851
Of course it wouldn't mean a hill of beans if there wasn't some other corroborating evidence, but when you have the nazis own estimates of the oven capabilities near the same figures as Prufer's estimate it certainly helps his case.

>>3250851
I mentioned quotes.

>the sources I'm currently using
You aren't using anything, you are copypasting from a forum like a drone.

Going to sleep, I leave you to the other anons.

>>3250836
Find me a mass delusion in history that occurred with people who had never seen each other nor talked to each other happening simultaneously over an entire continent.

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>>3250859
Alright , it's late. I'll be back to thread tomorrow, but if any of you

BOTHERED TO READ THE GODDAMN LINKS I DROPPED

You'd know that the source I was posting from is refuting exactly that document that has been posted twice already.

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10214

>Inb4 no one reads something that should only take 20 mins to read through
Live long and prosper you kike bastards

And we almost to the bump limit!

As always it has been fun /his/, but the best part we can have the same thread again next week! Unless of course stormfags stay in their containment board, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

>>3250876
Find me another link to your report, I can't see it since my work blocks it under the category of "racism/hate".

>>3250836

Were the guards also suffering from mass hysteria?

>>3250859
Mein gott a piece of paper with German typed on it, thats all the evidence I ever need.