How do I legitimately beleive in a religion

Why would you want to believe in religion?

>>3239229
Start by praying on a daily basis. Contemplate on the idea of God and the strangeness of existence. Read Kierkegaard.

>>3239229
You have to lower your IQ
Try heavy drinking or cut your oxigen supply for a couple of minutes

>>3239229

It's not hard really, just act as tho you believed, go to church, pray, whatever, and eventually you will trick your brain into actually believing. Religious people call this "fake it 'till you make it" and it's an approach with deep psychological effectiveness.

>>3239454
Because nihilism fucking sucks. I don't even necessarily want a denominational heaven or something but I would appreciate existing in some form forever. I wouldn't even mind death being like an eternal sleep if we could dream in that shit.

>>3239594
So just start believing then. The only one stopping you from having faith in fairies promising you eternal life is you.

>>3239229
self hypnosis like this guy said >>3239484

>>3239621
>fairy tales
Are you the same anon that derailed the what if thread earlier?

>>3239718
No. Comparing religion to fairy tales is a fairly common

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>>3239229
Have you tried embracing the absurd?

>>3239229

You're looking for your question to be answered. Religion is having the answer without caring about the question.

>>3239594
Can you actually believe something if you know you only believe it because it gives you comfort?

How does nihilism suck?

>>3239897
It doesn't. People don't realize that for every why there is a why not.

>>3239878
No, and that's my issue. I find it nearly impossible to convert and my religious family and friends don't get why.

Get into a joke religion like discordianis, Satanism, pastafarianism, or protestantism.

>>3239909
Then I would suggest you look for meaning I your own life and the natural world. There is a lot of good in this world, though it may be difficult to find.

>>3239826
This

>>3239229
dude just turn your brain off lol

>>3240107
No no that's the point I don't want to turn my brain off.

Too many fedoratippers in one thread, I can feel my upper-neck tingling already.

You will only 'legitimately believe' when you have your first religious experience.
>>3239792
By brianlets, yes.
>>3239930
Good only exists when recognizing its creator. Without, there is no good, merely 'is'. Slatelessness is the inherent lack of meaning or form. No, there is no 'good' in your world, there is nothing.

>>3239229
Skip religion, pick philosophy.

I recommend Stoicism. Religion is fairy tales, Philosophy is the same shit without the extra bullshit.

>>3239229
>monist materialism

looks like you already believe in a religion

get into philosophy OP. Read about idealism/realism debate. you're also misunderstanding science and the nature of it's results. check out scientific instrumentalism

you probably think the world consits of atoms like mini planets and that's all that exists and it will slowly succumb to the heat death.

this is a belief based on false assumptions about science and the philosophy of perception

also you were thrust into existence before from nothingess, so it's in the nature of nothingness to thrust forth lifetimes. so when you die and go back to nothing, what's to prevent nature doing the very same thing that it did before this lifetime, and thrust you into existece again?

>>3241425
>you probably think the world consits of atoms like mini planets and that's all that exists and it will slowly succumb to the heat death.

Well, not like mini planets, and energy exists, but yeah, generally, that's about right.

>what's to prevent nature doing the very same thing that it did before this lifetime, and thrust you into existence again?

I've actually thought about that sometimes but its completely unverifiable.

>>3241392
Stoicism is for children. No wonder you don't understand religion, you're a fucking child.
>>3241433
>verifiability is relevant
Just off yourself if you hate life so much.

>>3241442
At what point did I say I hate life?
Verifiability is relevant for faith in a thing, at least to me.

>>3241479
Because you're a STEMsperg. You are forever Godless.
You hate life because you reject creation, and instead love abstractions of it. You hate life because you hate its creator, but instead claim it to be its own.

>>3241494
>Creating this strawman for literally no reason.
I am a STEMfag but I'm more of an agnostic deist at worst. I don't hate life, I do think something supernatural created it (though not necessarily a God as described by any religion) and I wouldn't hate that creator. I don't hate the universe for existing, I'm disappointed that, in a universe that should theoretically exist forever, we all blip in and out of oblivion, at least to the best of any current empirical knowledge.

>>3239229
>babbys first existential crisis

Life is a powerful force, being alive is a gift.
I'd rather revel in the existence of myself and others than let the theory that it all dissipates into a void of nothing rule my actions.

Nihilism is cancer, regardless of any technical truths it may explain.
Work together every day to make the world better for every man born tomorrow. We're worth more, here, alive on this planet now, than any infinite vastness of simple weights and orbital mechanics.

>>3241628
Not my first, I just never adopted a philosophy that dispels them, so they get pushed back but not overcome.

You haven't really stated what religions you are interested in or even read. Terms like deism, theism, a creator, etc are not religions in of themselves but aspects of belief systems. You're looking at it in the wrong way.

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>>3239229
>>3239792
>>3239916

>w do I legitimately beleive in a religion

Believe in God more than religion. But even if you're an atheist God may still take a liking to you if your God's type.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNCruTB7hMU

>>3241693
That's the thing, when I look into the history of religions that interest me their origins seem so mundane and likely to be false, or at least corruptions of actual religious knowledge.

>>3241510
>agnostic deist
you sit so hard on the fence, you have a pole sticking out of your mouth. You're something out of Vlad's yard!
You do hate life, and God.
>empirical knowledge
Empirical knowledge isn't what you pretend it is. Empirical knowledge is instantaneous perception. No, your reflections on perception are not 'empirical knowledge', this includes 'instantaneous' thoughts upon perception.
Fucking teenagers.

>>3241738
>THEYRE FALSE BECAUSE THEY DONT FIT MUH AUTISTIC MIND
kys before that fence pole causes you to go septic.

>>3241433
>Well, not like mini planets, and energy exists, but yeah, generally, that's about right.

this a completely unverifiable religious belief based on the religious assumption of scientific realism and materiaism

>>3241922
No, they're false/prone to inaccuracy because you can draw pretty solid lines between certain faiths showing they are just mutations of older ones and the older ones are so muddied in origin that they may well be inflated superstition. Faiths with historical figureheads such as Buddhism and Christianity at least have that bit going for them but still are difficult to verify; Jesus was one of a lot of purported messiahs in the area at the time with a historical record that leaves much to be desired, particularly regarding his resurrection (the most important part) and Buddha wasn't trying to come back from the dead in the first place.

>>3241931
How is it unverifiable? It's the current accepted model of the universe. It's falsifiable but has not been falsified thus far.

What answer are you looking for? A list of religions?

study buddhism, all you fears and ideas about death are illusions

>>3241947
>How is it unverifiable? It's the current accepted model of the universe. It's falsifiable but has not been falsified thus far.

you need to learn about the philosophy of science

you're taking scientific theories to be actual factual descriptions about an externally existing reality, that actually exists

look into scientific instrumentalism, which is the preferred belief for nobel laureates

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>>3239897
>>3241386
>>3241442
>>3241494
>>3241628
>Dude LMAO just invent an ideal so you don't feel bad
>muh God
Nihilism is actually the only way to be intellectually honest

>>3241392
>stoicism
What's the point in dehuminizing yourself? I'd rather be dead to be honest.

>>3241947
>superstition is wrong becuz i sed so
>u can draw solid lines becuz i sed so
>ter is no god becuz i sed so IT ISNT LOGICAL AND DOESNT FIT MUH AUTISTIC WORLD
>MUH HISTORE IS ACCURATE BECAUSE MUH AUTISM
>muh accepted model
STEMspergs are naive, they will believe anything.

>>3242050
>intellectualism
Spook
At least try
>invent an ideal
Nope, stop spooking yourself there bud.

I wish preteens would stop reading Stirner, as if they understood him.

>>3242050
Stirner wasnt a nihlist, just very close to it. Where a nihlist would say nothihng matters, Stirner would say I matter.

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>>3239229
It's pretty easy, OP

>accept Deism on a logical basis
>embrace a religion on an identarian basis
>accept and internalise that religion on a philosophical basis

ur welcum

>>3239229
>how do I believe
Anon if you have any sliver of intelligence you know there's no answer for that and contrary to what some of these anons are saying, "tricking yourself into believing something" is utter bullshit and on top of that you would always be left with slivers of doubt. There are plenty of wise and intelligent people who are religious or at least deist. Start discussing the philosophy and theology of different religions on sites or forums dedicated to them, the purpose of this wouldn't be to settle with any religion but to begin considering the possibility of the spiritual. 4chan is not a good place for this sort of thing. Too much shitposting and snark.

>>3239229

Unless you believe that the fundamental substance can be created or destroyed, then you believe in eternal life. Rejoice, we all live forever!

That said, if you want to be pointed in the right direction when it comes to theology, pick up Plato and Aristotle. Platonism represents the height of man's theological knowledge, and proves we will live forever.

Don't read anything written by "Neoplatonists", though.

Give philosopher John Gray a shot.

>>3244174
>Don't read anything written by "Neoplatonists", though.

What's wrong neoplatonists though?

t.like st..Augustines theology

>>3243929
Deism is for redditors. 'embracing a religion' can only be done ontologically.
Fuck off, psychobabblist.

>>3244174
Platonism is absolute garbage.

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>>3239594
lol what a weak willed faggot

>>3244365

Go to a mosque and ask them to teach you about religion, I'm quite sure they'll show you what you seek.

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>>3241386
>people refuse to believe in ancient equivilant to self reinforcing delusional personality cult
>call them fedora tippers, that ought to show them

The greatest injustice in this world is that willing slaves will die having never known their folly

>>3243907
I wish deists would stop reading stirner, as if it confirms their bias

>>3244514
You're the slave, though. You've earned your death already. Letzter Mensch, you've choosen to mope in suffering instead of love it.
>>3244569
I'm not a deist. I hate deists, passionately.

>>3244569
>bias is bad
SPOOK'D

>>3244585
Who said anything about misery?

>>3244601
It's... self-evident... looking at... history... it is a fact... human nature... natural law...

3 steps:
-Know the history of the people the religion refers to
-Read the sacred texts/holy messages
-Discuss the disputable topics with practicants with a successful life

>>3244635
All wrong. Back to /r/eddit, protestant.

>>3244639

how can it be wrong if it worked for him?

>>3244660
>pragmatism
kys

>>3239229
Read some aristotle

>>3244675
It's not pragmatism. Try it and you will see the results.

>>3244699
No, it is pragmatism. 'it just werks' meme bullshit

>>3244585
>I hate deists, passionately
I'm actually curious as to why.
What do deists do and believe in that rustles you?

>>3244705
>i don't want to do anything
So you want a deductive answer?

>>3244751
They're the most pretentious navel-gazing faggots to ever exist. America's ridiculous founders? Deists. Cult of Reason? Deists. 'enlightenment' idiots in general? Deists. Every time I see a period portrait of a 'philosopher' or other 'intellectual', I want to smash their deist face in.

>>3244767
Not that anon, but how are they navel-gazing? Pretty much every religion-philosophy is born of navel-gazing if you're seeking a reason to say it is. Deism seems pretty relaxed to me, at least in the way I affiliate with it.
>Something created the universe
>Either the universe created itself (meaning our laws of physics are completely invalid) or an external force initiated creation.
>If an external force, might as well call it God. Doesn't mean it cares about us or is sentient, but it can do what nothing else in this world can.

>>3244786
Deism isn't relaxed, it's pretentious and nihilistic.

>>3244705

So?

>>3241386
triggered

>>3244624
Only if you make it so. By your own logic even, misery can only exist if you recognize it's creator. You are the master of your own fate, my simple friend. If you require a god to give your life meaning, then you're pittiable

>>3244819
You're illiterate.
>CREATE YOUR OWN MEANIGN XDDDDDDD LE MEME NIHILISM BRO
Fuck off back to /b/, sperglord.

>>3244767
So you believe everything the Bible says to the letter? That's just the worst, religious or not

>>3244832
I smell the lawjik guy.

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I miss Constantine.

>>3244836
>Don't believe the Word of God, Goyim!

>>3244842
Jesus clearly was the product of Joseph having anal sex with Mary, with some of his semen dripping down into her vagina, thus impregnating her.

Better?

>>3244299

Neo-Platonism is the result of an ontological error. It's simply wrong.

As for St. Augustine, he's a Christian. I know Christians often confuse Plotinus with Plato, but at any rate Augustus' beliefs are fundamentally incompatible with Plato and Aristotle.

>>3244358

Sounds like you dislike the truth.

Platonism is the height of theological knowledge. Please to be converting.

>>3244858
Allahu Ackbar.

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>>3244845
>Believe everything that's written as it's written, no matter how baseless and rediculous, worm!

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>>3244832
O shit! He's making more sense than I was prepared for! Better resort to le Reddit spech XD and ad hominen

Jesus you're as bad as the turks

>>3244863

Believe God in all cases.

Yes.

>>3244863
Stop talking to the fundamentalists.

>>3244895
Yes, we wouldn't want to hear the truth. We love our lies so much.

>>3244767
>America's ridiculous founders? Deists.

One of 55 was a deist.

36 were Christian pastors.
18 were Christians but not pastors.

>>3244886
>It's the word of god because somebody wrote it in a book that way, and I have no way of knowing who or why

Whatever man. I don't actually think anything anyone could say will change your mind, or any mind of those that believe in god. The only thing that would do that is by definition unknowable. If it helps you sleep at night

>>3239229
Stop posting this thread.

>>3244886
Which?

>>3239229
You can believe in god while not believing in a religion.

>>3245585
But religionfags seem to have such a comfy life. Even if they're wrong they didn't wast time dreading.

>>3245605
>But religionfags seem to have such a comfy life.
That's not always true. In fact Abrahamic religion warns you that shit will probably get worse for you and most Catholic mysticism revolves around this.
>Even if they're wrong they didn't waste time dreading
This is true though.
Even if there was no god and I could hypothetically come to know that in my death, I wouldn't regret anything because I didn't begin believing in my God out of some fear of death and hope for the afterlife but because of the virtue and wonder I saw in quite a few modern saints- their tranquility and love for other people. I'd be happy just knowing I spent my life towards self improvement and helping others when I could, helping make the world a little less shit for at least some people.

>>3245698
See, that seems nice.

>>3244836
No, I'm not pr*testant. Why are you making such assumptions, Dirty Deist?
>>3244841
I smell autism...

>>3245698
Pascals wager is for scaredy queers that can't commit

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>>3244879
Two can play that game

>>3239229
>Monist Materialism
You're already most of the way to being a hindu.

>>3244858
Truth doesn't exist and Platonism is antithetical to any truth-notion.
>>3244863
>Criticize everything because it was taught to you as a child, but do not DARE criticize the notion of criticism itself. Or science!
>>3244905
They were Christians by culture alone. Every last bit of American rhetoric is deistic. Buggers predicted Mormons; they may as well have said that God gave them specifically America to spread righteousness across the globe.
>>3244912
>knowing
Stop falling for lame memes. There are things beyond knowledge. Why are you so damned autistic? Blatantly awful at conceiving of any other mind, or considering anything nonmaterial or nondefinite.

>>3245698
>muh humanism
Stop perverting God's word with your rhetoric, sophist.

>>3245891
There's the bull shit we all know and love. If shallow reasoning fails, just say it's impossible to know everything. That'll shut them up, right? Fucking idiot. It's not about what you can't know, because speculating on things you can't possibly know or hope to know is totally pointless.

Hell, your argument is self defeating in that you assume you can't possibly know the nature of god yet deign to know how it wants you to act, think, that it wants you to worship it. That it speaks at all or is of human likeness.

>>3245891
>can't criticize science!

Quite the opposite in fact. Critisize all you want. What doesn't stand up to scrutiny is discarded. That's literally the point. Forming ideas and models based on observable truths. Not "I read it somewhere and everyone told me it's so"

>>3245938
>STOP CRITICIZING MUH MEMES
I didn't say 'knowing' was impossible by the way, I said it doesn't exist.
>because speculating on things you can't possibly know or hope to know is totally pointless.
If you have autism (you do).

>>3245946
More rhetoric.
There are no 'observable truths', dogmatist. Scrutiny is nonsense: IF I THINK REAAAAAAAAAAAAAALY HARD ILL DISCERN ALL THESE TRUTHS WHICH EXIST BECAUSE I SAID THEY DO.
>Not "I read it somewhere and everyone told me it's so"
This is why you've fallen for STEMshit though, whereas I've had actual religious experiences.
You've never observed science or truth, I've observed God. I'm a proper empiricist, you aren't.

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>>3239229
You suffer from an atheistic view of religion. Religion doesn't brainwash you or arrest your conscious of worry. There's lots of dogma, theology and morals in religion but the most important aspect of religion is community. Engage with fellow Christians/Buddhists/Muslims?/etc. and be there for each other.

>>3246043
>community
Fuck off to /pol/

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>>3246050
>thinks engaging with your community instead of living life through a laptop screen is the same as lynching blacks
You need to go back

>>3246075
You're the redditor, though.
>muh community
Is reductionist secular nonsense.

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>>3246079
>I know what you are, but what am I?
>spouting big worlds to sound smart
Are you triggered by the world community? Did you used to live in a smart town that got together on the weekends to rape you in the ass?

>>3246117
*words damn it, point still stands, neck yourself

>>3246117
Back to /r/eddit

>>3246126
?

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>>3239229
Join a community of believers and pretend to be one of them, continue this for two years. That's literally all it takes.

>>3246227
Fuck off with this larping shit already.
A person ought to be genuine about what they believe in or believe in nothing at all.

Also this doesn't work contrary to what some psychology articles will tell you. You'd also be "believing" for all the wrong reasons.

Understanding the fine-tuning argument and the hard problem of consciousness, one forms an inductive rationale that there is a divine origin. Anyone who says otherwise lacks the reasoning beset upon the simplest of minds.

>>3246253
Fine tuning and hard problem I like but get shit-talked like crazy using it as a basis faith around atheists.

>>3246473
>but get shit-talked like crazy using it as a basis faith around atheists.
>around atheists
There's the problem.
Most atheists you will come across in person aren't atheists who's beliefs are rooted in some deep philosophical reasoning, most of them root their beliefs or lack of belief in convictions as shallow and stupid as "If God isn't real why hasn't He sent down a sign " or "Why is there evil" , and most of the time I've found from personal experience, it's because of something entirely unrelated to some theological question such as believing religion causes most wars or their dad hated them for being gay and so they reject any notion of God, or they simply don't want to consider the possibility of something bigger than themselves because it frightens them the same way the notion of no God would scare some religious people.

Anyhow, is there a particular religion which has teachings and theology you've considered as a possibility?

>>3246547
>Anyhow, is there a particular religion which has teachings and theology you've considered as a possibility?

Not particularly, because when I think of one that sounds possible, it's also (due to the compatibility) just as likely to be crafted AROUND stuff that's already known and is just wishful thinking. I kind of like Gnosticism in that the material world is so bleak and anti-spiritual because it was purposefully made to be so.

>>3246575
>>3246547
Oh, also Catholicism because it has a canonization process that requires bonafide miracles but I haven't been able to investigate one myself before obviously.

>>3246041
Wow. And finally the crazy comes out kicking and screaming like a spoiled child. This is why arguing with you people is a waste of time. When one lives in opposite land, what you see and feel is false and only your fantasy is real. How do you have reasonable discourse with someone for whom reason is simply an obstacle? Turns out, you don't.

>>3246034
>Let's just call any argument against me a meme and refute everything with a personal attack

How very christian of you

>>3246253
>god of the gaps

>>3239229
Kierkegaard was right desu.
I've read The Golden Bough. I know religions are made up, but i choose to take the leap of faith. And it helps me find inner peace.

>>3246473
>>3246253
Mainly because both arguments are designed to lend themselves to divine origin. It's sort of begging the question, really.

Especially the fine tuning argument. That's the same as the article written in the 70's(?) explaining that there must be some sort of extrasensory presence because life was mathematically impossible. Really, that's just all about perspective. after all, we are all self evident examples of life being possible, so if it proves anything it's that the math is wrong.

But this is where things get sticky for most people I think, because truly accepting a universe that is 100% random stuff happening is hard to swallow, and for good reason. Our brains evolved to see invisible manipulators where there were none, or at least no evidence.

As for the hard problem, I guess I would need to hear it argued for divine origin to understand how the two are even related

>>3243903
So this...is the power of christfaggotry...woah

Read 1 Kings 19:11-13

God told the prophet Elijah to stand on a mountain and that God would soon appear to him. So Elijah went and stood on the mountain and there was a storm but God didn't appear. There was a powerful howling wind but God didn't appear. Then there was a mighty fire and still God didn't appear. After the fire, Elijah heard a tiny whisper.

Point is, the whispering voice of God is within us all, calling us to be his friend.

>>3243903
This is some next level mad. We're talking hands-cupping-ears-shouting-no existential threat opposite world mad

>>3247475
Neat story. Who wrote it?

>>3247114
>STOP BEHAVING IN WAYS I DONT LIKE REEEEE
Fucking legalists.
'reasonable discourse' is an irrelevant Platonist meme.
>>3247120
Lame /r/eddit meme, take it back.

>>3247262
The Golden Bough is modernist nonsense, you are not 'faithful'. Watch Eureka SeveN if you want a subtle breakdown of the text and its nonsense, and sincerely want to find God.

>>3247307
And all arguments for science are begging the question. Fuck off, all arguments presume their conclusion axiomatically
>>3247526
I'm not mad at all though. 'existential threats' are for the Fr*nch, teenagers, and general Letzter Mensch. I'm oecologically sound.

>>3248742
You misread. I wasn't talking about existentialism. I was talking about an existential threat to ones own ideas about the world. See, a rational, intelligent person is capable of at least entertaining an idea apart from there own. But as you've demonstrated here, your ego is far too invested in what you've been told to believe to do anything but wholeheartedly reject whatever runs contrary, all reason be damned. Hence the part about an existential threat.

>>3248729
Why do you keep replying? You've already made it abundantly clear that you have no desire whatsoever to defend yourself in any meaningful way. For all it's worth you've lost and are at the "nuh UHHHH" stage all spoiled know-it-all children eventually reach when they've run out of room.

>>3248742
In what way are arguments for science begging the question?

Since you don't seem to know, let me clear up the definition for you, because it will be necessary to know this to understand what comes after: begging the question is making a claim that assumes the basis for such a claim is automatically true. I.e. literally all religious rhetoric ever, written, spoken or otherwise.

I wouldn't expect you to know this either, so I'll define this term as well: the goal of scientific endeavor is to ask a question and then look for an answer. The opposite of what you are familiar with, being an indoctrinated something-or-other

>>3248900
The fine-tuning argument is hardly begging the question. If there is a single universe, and life is incredibly improbable, the most likely explanation is that it was intentionally engineered that way by a creator, as a universe peopled with intelligent beings is something one could expect from a God. It's pattern recognition.

>>3239229

You STILL haven't said what answer you'd like.

>>3248954
That is totally begging the question. It assumes that there is a single universe and it assumes that we know life is highly improbable. But we can't know for sure in either case. It's pretty typical of christian apologist rhetoric

>>3248870
>muh rationality
Meme
>MUH INTELLIGENCE
Meme that you totally lack
>told to believe
My Christianity is totally separate from what you know it as, Letzter Mensch. You've been told to believe, I've come to believe through direct experience of God.
You're too deep in the quicksand to see your own flaming hypocrisy. Why do you put 'enlightenment' memes above and before God?
>>3248879
I am defending myself; I am correct. Why does that offend you so?

>>3248982
By assume you meant come to that conclusion through abductive reasoning used in empirical science?
Typical atheist rhetoric, forcing logical fallacies as hard as they can.

>>3248900
Yes, I know what 'begging the question' means you illiterate fedoralord.
You are the indoctrinated, but you are too deep in the quicksand to see that.
> the goal of scientific endeavor is to ask a question and then look for an answer.
No, that's the ideologue's claim. It presumes its own answer then asks the requisite question with the answer already in mind.
>>3248982
Scientist rhetoric:
>THE UNIVERSE IS CLEARLY ORDERED BECAUSE WE SAID IT IS BEFOREHAND AND THE 'EVIDENCE' PROVES IT
>THE UNIVERSE IS LE RANDUMB BECAUSE POST-MODERNISM AND THE EVIDENCE PROVES IT
May death take you soon, before you suffer too much.

>>3248988
Don't even compare Christian apologetics to 'empirical science'. At least Christianity can have justified axioms, STEMspergery absolutely cannot. It would require 'begging the question'. Hence, STEMspergery doesn't actually exist as anything but 'spergers. Science is unscientific. Its apologizers are literally autistic.

>>3248961
I'unno some shit that provides evidence for itself over monist materialism would be nice.

>>3248992
Clearly, it is opposite land in your head. Presuming an answer then asking the requisite question is by definition what belief in a god is. Hallucinations are not empirical evidence. Repeatable results are empirical evidence. If I drop acid and see clouds made of cotton candy, I don't go off the assumption that clouds are made of spun sugar and look desperately for evidence that proves this.

>>3248988
Nope, by assume I mean "I'm biased to believe in a creator so I observe the universe and choose to interpret those incomplete observations to confirm my bias, and call it the only logical conclusion"

>>3248985
You are defending yourself in the same way a child defends itself from it's rightful punishment: by spitting any foul and contrarian thing that comes to it's limited faculties. Your entire argument throughout this whole thread has attempted to use reason and intelligence while simultaneously disregarding it. Or if not using reason and intelligence, coming to conclusions that could only have been filtered through these mechanisms from an ultimate conclusion you fixate on as being the only possible one for no reason other than your ego makes you physically incapable of accepting anything else

>>3249167
Just search Catholic/Orthodox mystics on google and look through some of those really bizarre cases.

St.Paisios was a pretty cool guy. He hated the Turkish though since he's a Greek war vet.

>>3248992
Let's revisit that last half, but this time in reality:

>Is the universe perfectly ordered or is it random?
>I don't know, let's run some tests and find out
>huh, turns out it's probably both, but we will never know for sure

>>3249167
>evidence
Evidence is immaterial. There, you fucking idiot.
>>3249189
ANYBODY I DISAGREE WITH IS JUST LE OPPOSITE MAN MEME
Holy fucking shit you really are autistic
I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR LE STEM MEMES, I AM A PROPER EMPIRICIST, ALL OBSERVATIONS ARE EMPIRICALLY SOUND IN THEIR INSTANT, INCLUDING 'HALLUCINATIONS'.
>Presuming an answer then asking the requisite question is by definition what belief in a god is
No, you're projecting ideology. I discovered God, I did not ask or question.
>empirical evidence is good because somebody told me so
Spot your own hypocrisy, 'sperger.

>>3249202
>I'm biased to believe in science so I observe the universe and choose to interpret those incomplete observations to confirm my bias, and call it the only logical conclusion
SPOT YOUR HYPOCRISY

>>3249202
If you did that, you wouldn't be an idiot.

>>3249225
>HAHAHAHA ANYBODY WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS LE DUUUUUUUUUUUMB
Back to /r/eddit please, Letzter Mensch, children are frolicking here as the foolish 'adults' work away. Maturity will never reach you, tool of the state!

>>3244912
Correct. Nobody will ever change my mind that believing God in all cases is not the best thing anyone can do, ever, in all situations.

>>3245576
Your search has not even started.

There is only one.

>>3249241
>tests
Tests presuppose order you fucking tool.
>reality
Doesn't exist, ideologue.

>>3245698
Knowing the truth, knowing peace, knowing the answers to life, to the origin of life, the meaning and purpose to life, and being accepted and loved by your Creator tends to have that effect, yes.

>>3245891
36 of the 55 were Christian pastors. And you counter that with "by culture".

kek

lawjikboy shits up another philosophy thread with aplomb

>>3249233
Okay.
>>3249458
Dismissing evidence as a thing doesn't help.

>>3249475
>pastors can't be 'by culture'
brainlets, everybody
>>3249567
Evidence doesn't exist, there is nothing to dismiss.
Doesn't help what, Burger? Do you sincerely believe everybody has fallen into the disease of pragmatism?

>>3249461
>I'm biased to believe in logic so I observe the universe and choose to interpret those incomplete observations to confirm my bias, and call it the only valid conclusion.
WILL SPERGLORDS EVER RECOVER?

>>3249458
>>3249461
>>3249463
>>3249467
>>3249468
>>3249472
>When you're so ass blasted about dead gods that you have to same fag this hard

It really goes to show how far gone delusional twits like this are, that they will denounce reason, logic, and all things empirical in the same sentence the claim to be the epitome of all of these things

>>3249646
I'm am the epitome of all those things. I rule them, while you are ruled by memes of them. One rules by rejection and reshaping. State tool! you will never be anything more than a slave to memes.
>anybody who sees beyond the horizon is just le stupid and delusional
Impotent anger. Ressentiment. Will you ever recover?

>>3249654
Obvious troll

>>3250200
>ANYBODY WHO DISAGREES WITH MY MEMES IS JUST LE TROLL
So this is the power of science...

>>3249483
?

>>3250952
Just some butthurt fanboy of mine. Upset that I actually care about philosophy rather than care about individual meme philosophies like stoicshit and such.

>>3250959
Are you Goddess Aurora without your trip?

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64KB, 669x736px

>>3239229
Religious people don't truly believe either. Subconsciously they know there's no hope or anything. Even if you repeat a mantra to consciously accept religious thought, subconsciously you'll never accept it.
Comfort comes from acceptance of reality. Or weed and alcohol.

>>3250952
He's been here for months performing textbook shitposts, greentexting in allcaps like a child, while proclaiming himself to be the beacon of wisdom. No one could be that self-unaware, which is why I think he's deliberately trolling.

>>3239229
Religion is not belief, religion is faith.

Faith that you know there is a higher power and that everything happens for a reason.

>>3252219
>Let me, an atheist, tell you how religious people think.

I mean it's pretty easy to falsify that statement but I appreciate the attempt?

>>3252237
What's the difference?

>>3252240
You can't explain faith. Belief is facts and studying and knowing things inside and out. Faith is when you're ready to kill yourself and are living your day as if it were your last and then you experience someone so happy and so pure in ecstasy that it changes your entire outlook on life and you find yourself yearning to share that feeling and you decide not to kill yourself.

Faith is failing summer classes and coming home a failure and asking why does this shit happen, only to realize that you got to spend more time with your grandfather before he suddenly died and had you not failed those classes you wouldn't have had those moments with him.

Faith is trusting that there's a larger plan and that whatever deity you believe in looks out for you because things happen that simply cannot be explained. Faith is trusting in the inherent good amidst the entropy of the universe that happens to all of us.

>>3252237
Faith isn't technically true knowledge. It's considered a virtue because you accept as true things that cannot be known. It faith was actually knowledge then it wouldn't be a virtue.

Faith is more of a moral stance, that it is "good" to believe things that you don't know. The opposite would be a skeptic considers it "good" to not trust things that you don't know.

>>3252251
That makes faith sound like shit though.
Literally just a hint at an afterlife or some manner of permanence gets rid of all the problems.

>>3240107
There's been many religious men who could donate a fraction of their brain and it would still not help you for your stupidity.

>>3239229
Why do you idealise ignorance?

>>3252273

Did you ever consider that faith is a bit shit? If you value faith rather than truth, you're a p. low tier scrub desu

>>3241442
>Stoicism is for children

We got some hot opinions in here

>>3253627
I don't claim to know it all, though. I'm not trying to unlearn as much as see if I'm missing something.

>>3253828
Then what he hell how does anyone have faith?

>>3253914

I'm sure people have their reasons for taking up faith rather than truth. Perhaps they were raised with the belief, perhaps they are immigrants who wanted to fit in, perhaps they're intellectually weak.

I won't presume to know why so many individuals decided to put truth to one side.

>>3239229
Pray for faith.

>>3239229
>This complete and utter low quality bait thread is near to the most replied thread.

What is it about religion that attracts the retarded?

>>3248729
No, "reasonable discourse" is the foundation of our interactions. Idiots like you got btfo by Aristotle because you don't understand the principle of non-contradiction.

You're a clown tier theologian. Platonism is the greatest extent of mankind's theological knowledge, no matter what your hallucinations tell you.

>>3256103
I have thus far.
>>3257257
It's not bait, though. Also it was about to be archived until your bump.

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185KB, 1600x1200px

>>3239229
God doesn't exist obviously. But you should be part of a group that tries to make the world around you a little better, that makes your existence a little happier and perhaps gives you a little meaning. There's some religions that do these things and you can be part of a larger group of people that attempt to look after you and society at large. And if you buy into it, you can look to be buying yourself into a club that can affirm your identity with rich history, traditions, architecture, and culture, and hopefully a positive viewpoint on the world.

>>3259497
I've heard multiple times that declaring a religion false and joining it for social benefits is extremely disrespectful.

>>3259841
Well religion is a club and there are social benefits. Doubting God's existence is part of being a Christian. And you can adapt the meaning of God into an abstract concept that coincides with your worldview. In effect God can exist because you've joined his club.
Plus I think it's important to separate a religion from its beliefs. You may not believe in God but you can believe in the religion and act upon its teachings.

>>3239229
Do you believe in truth outside nature?

>>3260791
>You may not believe in God but you can believe in the religion and act upon its teachings.

I get what you mean but it still sounds incredibly disingenuous

>>3260808
What do you mean?

>>3260815
Can truth be created by human actions?

>>3260841
I think truth can be discovered but not created; we can learn about the qualities of nature but we do not define those qualities.

>>3260877
Can there be truth without thought?
My point is, since the notion of truth is a human creation, truth is a human creation as well.
Truth about nature is also the most boring kind of truth, the scientific method is a work hypothesis.

>>3260892
I think there can be truth without thought, to a degree.

Truth is just the concept of a thing's being. Even without thought, things can be. The planet Earth was without thought for some time, but it would not have been untrue to say it existed at the time.

>>3260906
I think is doesn't make any sense to define truth without thought.
Statements were created by thought.
Truth is a statement which is true.
Of course before thought things already were, but there were no statements.

>>3239916
Pretty underrated

>>3260906
Also: what did you mean by:
>Truth is just the concept of a thing's being

>>3260934
Like, if there exists a blue ball, the thought "This ball is blue" is true. Even if I don't see it, the existence of a blue ball is true. Thus, with or without my knowledge, there exists a reality that there is a blue ball. That would be truth.

>>3260961
It would be truth, but you'd not know.

>>3260919
I think you're buying into the theologins definition of truth too much. This is wandering into the realm of if a tree falls in the forest question. But reality isn't dependant on being observed. The force of gravity would still exist if we understood it or not. This is what truth is, and it remains a truth wether we observe it or not. Truths aren't created by us, merely observed and understood by us

>>3239594
You don't need to believe in a religion for that purpose. Like you don't need to believe in a god to believe in heaven, creation, etc.