Why didn't the UN/America win the Korean war?

>>3232285
The game wasn't worth the candle. Commitment of the sort of force to completely subdue North Korea after the Chinese entered the war threatened to drag the Soviets in openly ,and to turn the whole thing into WW3. Winning Korea would be nice, but it wasn't worth that kind of cost.

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>>3232285
Because the chinks invaded and ruined everything.

>>3232285
Nobody wanted to escalate it into WWIII, wanting to contain it in the Korean peninsula.

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>>3232296
>Nobody wanted to escalate it into WWIII

Wasn't worth it

Because the UN and US' goal was never to unite Korea, it was to defend the south, and they did. MacArthur decided it was his job to unite Korea all on his own

>>3232332
Well that's why he fucking got fired.

>>3232285
>"don't cross the 38th parallel"
>"okay"
>"don't cross the 38th parallel"
>"right"
>"seriously don't cross the 38th parallel!!!"
>*crosses the 38th parallel*
>*6 gorillion screaming chinese soldiers attack*
>"MacArthur you fucking idiot..."
>"don't worry I have a plan.. let's nuke China."
>"no, you're fired."

/thread

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>>3232332
We'd have been better off if he'd gotten his way

>>3232423
>"durr, hey guth, leth nuke china!!!1!1!!!"
>"also, the atomic bombing of japan was completely unwarranted"

>>3232423
>Ridgeway arrives and kicks the shit out of the chinks and norks, regains territory
MacArthur is such a fucking meme

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Is this the General that pushed ROK all the way back to the 38th.
?

>>3232285
>Why didn't the UN/America win the Korean war?

How did we lose? Our goal was to preserve the existence of South Korea, we accomplished that goal.

>>3232437
There's a difference between those 2 scenarios you know.

>>3232444
That Macarthur's idea would escelate into ww3?

>>3232444
Yeah. One ended a war, and the other would escalate one.

We didn't really have a goal beyond resetting the status quo from before, and we did that.

Also technically the war never ended as we're only in a ceasefire. But even more technically we never went to war in the first place.

>>3232285
Because Mao and Kim Il Sung were willing to sacrifice all of their men and the UN didn't want to continue fighting.

>>3232449
No that there's a difference between nuking a city of a country that we already torched 60 cities of and had been fighting towards their homeland for years, and nuking cities of a country that only just attacked us for doing something we weren't supposed to do.

>>3232443
Nobody said anything about losing

>>3232452
>technically we never went to war in the first place

Yeah, what were the technicalities of that? Were we just peacekeepers under a UN charter or something so no Congressional approval needed?

>>3232476
It was considered a police action or something. Not a legitimate war.

>>3232476

Police Action. IIRC Truman called it that when the person he talked to threw that term out into the air when trying to ask what the fuck they were doing if it wasn't a war.

>>3232450
The nuking of hiroshima and nagasaki didn't end the war. The Japs were already looking to surrender in 1945, they just wanted a way to save face for the emperor and not humiliate him, which is basically what they got anyway (the emperor stayed, and there was no prosecution of him).

There was no point to it, the Americans were just field-testing super weapons. The Americans insisted on the Emperor clause because they themselves wanted to prolong the war so they could use nukes, knowing the Japanese would never agree to a surrender that would humiliate the emperor. After they got to play with their big toys, they backed down on the emperor issue.

The whole "emperor renouncing divinity" was a meme that was sold to the american populace, and nobody in Japan actually even received the message, yet Americans seemed to insist on it as a preclude for ending the war. The Japanese were willing to accept surrender and occupation as long as the Emperor wasn't humiliated, and that's what they got in the end.

The nukes were literally pointless.

People who talk about "oh, operation downfall would have had 100 million casualties" are talking up there ass because there wasn't going to be an invasion of Japan, the Japanese were ready to surrender despite their official propaganda.

>>3232490
>The nuking of hiroshima and nagasaki didn't end the war. The Japs were already looking to surrender in 1945, they just wanted a way to save face for the emperor and not humiliate him, which is basically what they got anyway (the emperor stayed, and there was no prosecution of him).
Oh look, this lie again.
http://nuclearfiles.org/menu/library/correspondence/togo-sato/corr_togo-sato.htm

The war hasn't ended. No treaty has been signed, so technically the war is still going on to this day. No one has lost or won, but Trump may change that in the near future.

>>3232482
>>3232487

technically every war since 1945 has been a "police action", since the United Nations, geneva conventions and nurnberg trials had basically established that formal official wars are illegal.

>>3232490
Someone post the image that basically lists all the legit reasons to not drop the bomb, but then says "but you know what, those fucking slanteyed bastards had it coming"

>>3232487
What were Vietnam, Iraq 1, Afghanistan and Iraq 2 considered as?

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The UN didn't wi-

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>>3232506

>>3232503
Pretty sure that doesn't apply to us because I don't think we signed onto that accord. That;s the thing about the geneva convention, you only break it if you signed it in the first place.

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>>3232482
>"Sure felt like a real fuckin' war to me!"
>>3232490
>The Japs were already looking to surrender in 1945
conditionally. They rejected the Postdam declaration, if you will recall correctly.
>The americans insisted on the emperor clause
No, all of the western allies were in agreement on the postdam declaration. And I don't know what you're talking about, the Emperor was effectively removed as an authority figures.
>there was never going to be an operation downfall
Strange, considering the Japanese military was looking for one last bloody battle so they could surrender on their own terms.

>>3232503
>formal official wars are illegal

That can't be right...

>>3232505
IIRC Bush actually did get congressional approval for Afghanistan and Iraq instead of just going ahead on its own (which legally he can under the rules of a police action). It's why there was so much debate before Iraq.

>>3232509
it's still not a good look to say "I'm declaring war, because I need land and resources by right of conquest" like it was done in the good old days, because the nurnberg trials defined that as a war of aggression, even though this was an entirely new concept, and previous laws of war and meant it was okay to declare war for conquest of land and resources as long as you did it through the proper channels.

>>3232502
There was an agreed ceasefire but the North Koreans renounced it in the 2000s.

>>3232521

No there's a difference between formal wars and wars of conquest. That being said, those rules are going to mean jackshit once resources get scarce enough.

>>3232285
>Goal is to repel the North from invading the South
>Repel the North from invading the South
Dry and explain how this isn't a victory.

>>3232532
Dumb people think a war is only won when the other side surrenders.

>>3232502
You can't just lump it all on Trump, plenty of people in charge want to finally resolve it one way or another

>inb4 /pol/

>>3232521

You can fight a war of conquest if you want, as long as you're too powerful to stop. I mean imagine if the US just decided to jack Mexico, no one could do anything about it. No one has the military to stop them, and if you invade US soil we'll probably just launch our nuclear arsenal. And sanctions? Yeah let's sanction the nation whose currency is the global standard, that can't possibly fuck up the entire world's economy beyond repair.

It's bad for PR, but beyond that the US can really do whatever it wants.

>>3232547
Not him but it's an issue every president has kicked down the road for the next guy to deal with. Trump probably would've done the same if they didn't start launching missiles.

>>3232547
NK threatened to nuke Guam. If they follow through then it is likely Trump will end their country.

>>3232530
yeah but the only reason you declare war is for a war of conquest. If you are attacked and declared war upon, you don't really need to declare war to fight back, or if you do its just a formlaity.

The UN made wars of conquest illegal, meaning there's no real need for official "declarations of war", since any war that's legal within UN standards can be classified as a war of defence or a police action.

>>3232573
What about WW1? We were never technically attacked, the Americans who died didn't die on US soil, they were on ships of a nation that were fighting the war already, but we still declared war on the Central Powers.

>>3232559
>nuke guam
I seriously dont fucking understand this. I get its a major military base, but why wouldn't you go after pearl harbor or okinawa or something like that?

>>3232581
UN didn't exist in ww1, mate

>>3232547
>NK has threatened America ever since 1953.
>NK has threeatened to Nuke America since, I dunno, the 80s.
>Every single one has been an empty threat.
>Even that "Imma firing a missile into the sea" shit wasnt taken seriously.
>Most of US' response has been "Yeah, sure, whatever. Here are more sanctions. Enjoy."
But today
>USA: OMG I FEEL THREATENED.
Clearly something changed.

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>>3232582

>>3232584

Yes but would it be considered justified?

>>3232582
they're not going to do anything. It's just all political infighting between Generals and factions within north korea to show which one has the bigger balls.

They know they can talk whatever shit they like cause if america hits them, china will protect them.

>>3232592
>china will protect them
Hasn't china said they won't intervene if the norks continue to do retarded shit?

>>3232573
I still find this bullshit. It's never been about morality or any of that shit because people just kept doing it under a different name. They're just afraid of what will happen if nuclear powers go at it.

>>3232589
well, certainly not less justified than the U.S. invasions of panama, grenada and iraq, all of which were condemned worldwide.

But as someone else, it doesn't matter if the U.S. is justified or not, because they can do whatever the fuck they want and the world will bitch and do nothing, and the U.S. will classify their aggression on a sovereign country as a "police action".

>>3232435
I..i know anon. Now we're dealing with this shit today :*(

>>3232597
china says they wont intervene if north korea attacks first, but they will intervene if america attacks first.

Meaning NK can say and boast whatever they want, as long as they don't actually attack, they are safe.

It's just a huge propaganda war that benefits all sides really. North Korea makes it look to their people like they are strong and powerful. The US makes it look to it's people like NK is a real threat which is why they need to justify keeping troops and missiles in the region. China makes it look like to the world that they are the a relevant global power because they can control North Korea and defuse any situation meaning they have the most soft power in the area.

>>3232620
>The US makes it look to it's people like NK is a real threat

It's not like Nork DOESN'T have thousands of artillery pieces trained on Seoul.

Anyone got the name of the battle were a french division i think, but don't quote me on this were able to hold out against massive human wave assaults against the Chinese and then finally broke out?

>>3232624
What would they get out of bombing Seoul? Their enemy is the US, not SK. Most SK citizens don't even have anything against North Korea and would prefer peace or even alliance with them.

>>3232633
>What would they get out of bombing Seoul?

A destroyed Seoul, obviously.

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Can someone make a meme of this but with Mao. And with UN and american forces doing the btfoing of massive casualties on the other side?

>>3232639
Fun fact: In the Winter War, the finnish captured more enemy equipment (including infantry weapons, tanks, artillery pieces and trucks) then they lost.

>>3232638
They're not that Seoulless.

But seirously, brotherhood between Korean peoples is underestimated by the western media. Most SK and NK citizens view each other as the same peoples, they have no desire to inflict a bloodbath on the other, in fact both have more hatred for the U.S. I daresay.

>>3232647
Pretty cool :)

>>3232656
fuck you
>>3232649
carlos pls leave

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>>3232663
Ok :/

>>3232639
Fun fact: In the Winter War, the soviets conquered more enemy territory (including cities, factories and farms) than they lost

>>3232633
Why do they have over 10,000 artillery pieces pointed at Seoul if they aren't at least considering firing them?

>>3232669
same reason they shout they will nuke america every day

>>3232667
The same can be said about the somme

>>3232663
>carlos pls leave

why do burgers suck at bantz

>>3232676
leaf, akshually

>>3232626
Was it an Indochina war and are you thinking of Vietnamese soldier waves?

>>3232592
Kek. They're biting the hand that feeds them. In their recent news broadcasts they mentioned that Russia and China should feel ashamed for voting for sanctions against NK and that the US threatened them into voting against them through threats. China is getting sick of their crap.

>>3232694
Nah korean war. Was one of those small divisions sent by the UN to help and ended up getting encircled, but managed to break out. But i forget who's forces it was french, turk etc.

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>>3232285
Can't win or lose a war if it hasn't ended yet

>>3232699
Are you talking about outpost Harry? It was actually Americans and Greeks fighting Chinese hordes.

>>3232699
Or maybe it was the battle of chosin?

>>3232676
>he doesn't know about the Carlos pun meme

>>3232714
Yea that might be the one thxs.

>>3232423
Literally no one told him not to cross the 38th parallel.

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>>3232285
According to my history book, we did win the Korean war.

But really, the communists won the culture war, the president cucked macarthur, the american people wanted the war to end.

>>3232285
Is having a friendly South Korea much different than a friendly north and South Korea? It just means a smaller buffer and serves its function in the general encirclement strategy just fine. To answer your question though it just wasn't worth it. There's no war in the last 70 years the US wasn't capable of winning, but military victories were prevented or minimized by political and economic considerations (as they should be).

Yeah but not really

>>3232285
after the crushing defeat in Vietnam no one wanted a repeat

>>3232415
Once again the US never loses!

>>3233314
U wot m8

>>3232940
China told him not to come near the Yalu river or they'd attack. MacArthur, in his infinite wisdom, decided to not even prepare for that eventuality, promptly got BTFO, and then whined like a petulant child about how they were all going get massacred by the Chinese in southern Korea. People unironically think this guy was a good general

>>3232285
A rather large amount of troops would be needed to win after the chinks invaded.

>>3232519
He got Congressional approval but he never declared war on Iraq or Afghanistan.

Pretty impressive what China was able to do with mismatched infantry equipment, no tanks, no heavy artillery and no air support against an opponent that had every materiel advantage they could ask for.

>>3234236
Mostly because macarthur was a fucking retard and didn't even prepare for chinese intervention.

>>3234079
He was an absolutely shitty general, probably the worst in American history, with only McClellan competing, but that's not the same as him being told to stop at the 38th parallel.

It was absolutely policy from the White House to the UN to unite Korea, not to restore the 38th parallel.

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>>3232285
They feared the Chinese warrior

War tunred basicaly into the WW1 with better tanks, none of the sides was able to execute operation that would be decisive without starting the WW3.

Pic mostly unrelated.

>>3232443
Chinese goal was to prevent USA from conquering the North. Its lmost like Vietnam, but USA still lost when they crossed the 36th parallel and China joined.

>>3232647
Funny fact: Finns lost, twice

>>3232669
why are armies armed
>>3232694
human wave meme needs to die

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>>3232435
We'd have been way better off if we let Korea deal with is own civil war, you know the same way we go to handle our own civil war?


Fucking interventionists never learn, do they?

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>>3232549
ding ding ding

until the private sector finishes eroding the USA government apparatus from the inside and it becomes post-capitalist feudalism

>>3232619
True, we could be living the Anprim utopia right now but fags held him back

>>3232285
Because Truman tried to appease China and China doesn't respect appeasement.

>Mass six million men at the Yalu River
>They totally wouldn't have used them if MacArthur hadn't provoked
China would have entered Korea no matter what. Truman refused to prepare and refused to respond. Truman capitulated was soon as China invaded and got Americans killed as they were pushed back to the 38th parallel.

>>3232332
Russia didn't have intercontinental nuclear capability during the Korean war.

Nobody would have responded to US nukes in China. It wasn't until Vietnam where Soviet spies sold enough nuclear secrets for nuclear parity.

>>3232423
Never happened.

China would have entered the Korean war anyways.

>>3232559
They won't. Saber rattling is just playing bad cop.

>>3235407
MacArthur wanted to end the war before the Chinese finished massing their troops. Everyone knew China would enter, only Truman was stupid enough to think China was above reproach.