How did Islam last for so long?

>>3226270
Because being oppressive is not necessarily detrimental to being stable.

Also, islam is not necessarily as oppressive as it is interpreted to be by the sunni today.

Because they still charge people for apostasy in many countries, you'd see a lot more atheists in the middle east if it were as easy as the west

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Because Islamic fundamentalism is in fact revivalism and the average sand nigger in MENA did all kinds of haram things without even realizing they were haram until the Ottoman empire collapsed.

>>3226298
first point is true. Oppression creates a societal mind-block which makes everyone more predictable and stable.

but second point is not true. The Qur'an and Hadith carry the most authentic definition of Islam since they are closer to the prophet muhammad. And the Qur'an is very clear on its message against adultery, fornication, and disbelieving. The hadith is even clearer on the punishment to apostasy. So based on our stands, Islam is very oppressive. Since most Muslims have humanity in them, they will try to smooth out these harsh rules, but whenever ISIS comes along and just reads the Qur'an, they sadly have to concede all their points.

>>3226337
>you will never see an independent non-Islamic berber North Africa
Feels bad man

As long as Islam uses the koran as the primary interpretation of everything than we wont see change

>>3226270
Because of it's simplicity. Simplicity allows for much clearer rules. Clearer rules allow a more stable religion, meaning it'll last longer in a relatively unchanged state.

>>3226401
Nah, things will trickle down from the west. See Indonesia. Western culture is much more attractive to younger generations. Things change when old farts die. Militaristic groups are what keep the status quo in check, really.

>>3226270
Islam teaches you discipline

>>3226270
Oppressive monotheistic religions tend to be very stable, take Christianity for example.

>>3226270
It wasn't "incredibly oppressive". It was roughly as oppressive as what you could get under Catholicism, depending on the particular region and time period it could be more or less so. They valued literacy and science more than the Catholic Church did at the time, and they also had a conquering spirit which allowed them to introduce their way of life to pagans all across Africa and Asia, which was a superior way of life over what those less-developed people practiced.

>>3226457
What treasures here do Mammon's sons behold!
Yet know that all that which glitters is not gold.
Francis Quarles, Emblems, Book II. Emblem V.

>>3226425
well i know that to be true since im an ex moslem myself
youths has no interest in learning the teaching some dumb old arab warlord
sure Islam was enlightening,in the 7th century,in Arabia and during Jahiliyah

>>3226464
>which was a superior way of life over what those less-developed people practiced.
Might makes right, huh?

>>3226470
The Jahiliyah is a muslim meme.

>>3226470
Which is why, as a German, I am looking rather relaxed at the whole "muslim takeover" or whatever /pol/ wants to make people believe. Second and especially third generation immigrants are usually really different from their parent generations. Exceptions exist, obviously, but this is my general personal experience with these folks.

>>3226482
probably,i dont know
the arabs were barbaric anyways so it doesn't make much differences

>>3226472
Many people willingly converted because it was better to pay a small tax to your local Islamic leader and learn how to farm or work metals than it was sacrificing every third child to some random bone-wearing chieftan's sexual rituals.

>>3226483
Hans, its not the religious bit thats most worrying, its the demographics of Europe. Only the short-termist faggots of T_D look at just the terrorism angle, which in reality is basically a non-issue compared to the wider societal and demographic changes.

>>3226270
People enjoy having structure and dogma in their lives telling them what to do. If someone tells you what to do, you don't have to think for yourself. People in the west do the same thing just instead of religion it's reality television and celebrity worship.

As bad as Islam is TODAY, those exact same laws and systems were outright utopian compared to what the region was like before it.

>>3226737
8:22
"Without doubt, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the deaf, the dumb, who do not use their ‘Aql’ (reason)"

>>3226270
They were actually fairly progressive in certain ways when they were introduced. They were also relatively consistent, practical, applicable, and not based on fiat. I could see the appeal for some. There's a sort of stability that the all-encompassing system of Islam offered to disparate groups.

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I'm writing a paper about this exact topic, would appreciate any input on my theoretical approach and initial hypothesis:

-Pre-Islamic Arabia was tribalistic, but centers of commerce and pluralistic idol- or totem-worship existed in settled locations. These were "haram" or shrines, and Mecca was the biggest with reportedly over 200 major and minor gods worshiped side-by-side, and with rules governing peaceful interactions within city borders.

-Islam was a revolutionary religion that sought to outlaw and eradicate pagan idol-worship, but its leader, the Prophet Mohammad, did not seek to destroy the political structure of the shrine that existed with those idols. The Ummah actually usurped the use of shrine-sanctuaries as centers of commerce and worship, in order to harness the beliefs of pagan Arabs quickly and effectively.

-This is why several key elements of both the Islam "origin story" and Islamic law today share characteristics with a political system that existed for centuries before its arrival.

--Mohammad chose not to destroy the Quraysh and sack Mecca, less because he was a merciful victor and more because Mecca was a shrine-city with a protected status under pagan Arab convention, and he didn't want to alienate the rest of the peninsula

--Mohammad chose to destroy the idols within the Kaaba but not the Kaaba itself, rightly understanding that pagan Arabs had fluid beliefs about individual gods but very concrete conviction that there should be a place of worship and that existing places of worship were sacred.

--The early decision to reorient the direction of prayer away from Jerusalem, its original direction, to Mecca was less a product of tensions with Jewish or Christian allies, and more a decision to translate worship in a way intelligible to non-Abrahamic tribesmen that would form the bulk of Islam's early converts.

--Likewise, the hajj is a direct emulation of the yearly or semi-yearly excursions many nomadic tribes took to pre-Islamic Mecca.

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> tfw china would be muslim right now if it wasnt for the european cockblocking them in south east asia

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>>3227328
China probably wouldn't have been Moslem. China had Jesuits in its highest courts for decades and decades, and still never converted.

>>3226270
Because death to infidels, any anti islamism was murdered.

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>>3227008
So it basically parallels Catholicism.
They fucking copied us.

>>3227335
islam is different
> first they establish trade connections
> then they become a sizable minority
> then they take over
> within a couple of decades the whole population is muslim
l

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>>3226270
True religion of God.

>>3227344
>us
>posts an image of a false idol in his post

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>>3227357
China is different anyone who comes into China becomes China. Plus, most everyone has caught on to the Moslem's insidious nature. The Balkans mostly avoided Islamization, as did Italy and Russia, despite having high Moslem populations. Anyone who lives with them basically hates them.
Western Europe may fall victim to this ploy, though, because they're ignorant

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>>3227369
>Kizuna AI
>False Idol
She's a Virtual Idol

>>3227008
The Kaaba was made originally by prophet Adam and later rebuilt by Ibrahim and Ismael. The Kaaba was important.

>>3227357
when has this ever happened

>>3227388
SEA

>>3227388
It happened to the bulk of the territories taken in the initial Islamic expansion. Then most everyone caught on, and it stopped working.
It later happened in places like Albania, Turkey, and Bosnia.

>Complain that there is death penalty for adultery
>Reply that you need four perfect Muslim witnesses and no one has been executed except by confession
>Complain that you need four witnesses for rape
>Then complain about death penalty for rapists
>Instead fill prisons with rapists so they can be with other rapists and most of the time start raping as soon as they are released
Kafirs

>>3227402
It's mostly an excuse, because no one wants to be part of a hideous, horror vacuui culture that stinks like a thrift store

>>3227399
>>3227400
you forgot
>within a couple decades
which disqualifies all of those

>>3227430
4chanic hyperbole

When will the Dome of the Rock and the rest of Temple Mount be excavated?

>>3226470
Are you an Indonesian?

>>3227388
> the country with the biggest population of muslims is home to the largest buddhist temple

>>3227476
After the Great Crusade

>>3227357
>>3227399
>>3227509
We became muslim by marriage, people were animist and irreligious back then so the conversion was easy, and we got converted through marriager most of the time, the locals don't really mind. And if if the king is converted to Islam, the people followed him. Indonesian kings usually converted to Islam for trade and political power, pretty much the same reason why some Europeans converted to christianity

>>3227501
close

>>3227552
Malaysian then

>>3227537
> didnt mind
> Ibn Battuta travelled on to Samudra Pasai Sultanate in present-day Aceh, Northern Sumatra, where he notes in his travel log that the ruler of Samudra Pasai was a pious Muslim named Sultan Al-Malik Al-Zahir Jamal-ad-Din, who performed his religious duties with utmost zeal and often waged campaigns against animists in the region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Battuta#Southeast_Asia

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>>3227375
Muslims have been in china for a VERY LONG time.

One of China's most famous people in their history is the explorer Zheng He, was a Hui Muslim. Hui are a Muslim ethnic group in China. They look like pic related.

>>3226270

Its honestly pretty interesting reading about islamic history and seeing all the places they have been. I dont buy into the bullshit that they wait in the shadows for a chance to take over countries.

They converted a lot of people through trade and social policies. Islam tends to provide for the poor and its decentralization can be very attractive. Theirs a reason so much of the world is muslim without having any Arab in their blood.

Even though im Ex-Muslim, I respect Muslims a lot more than catholics. Compare the way spanish catholics "converted" mesoamerica to how Indonesia became muslim. The spanish raped and slaughtered the natives, completely uprooted their cultures, and destroyed nearly all their pagan artifacts. While Indonesia converted in order to become more trusted trading partners with the Islamic empires. The religion then naturally grew in Indonesia while they still maintained their history. If you go to indonesia it's filled with Buddhist statues and old monasteries. Also Iran took hundreds of years to become muslim, and Zorastrianism still exists in some pockets. Modern day Iranians still have their own unique genetic history.

Also look no further then the fact that their exists plenty of religious minorities in the Middle east, which has been dominated by muslims for thousands of years. These religion are all native to the land. While they used to have to pay jizya, they were still allowed to maintain their practice. Now again look at Europe. They follow a middle eastern religion and decimated nearly all traces (people and structures) of their native pagan religions.

So although im not religious, I sure as hell respect muslims a lot more then authentic christians.

>>3227363

wtf I love muhammad now

>>3226470
The spoiled arabs who stayed on Haram cities and slacked off, could't beat the Revonquista guys on Spain. Degeneration at its finest. You should be ashamed.

>>3227589
I was talking about the marriage, the locals didn't mind they they got converted through marriage

>>3227344
All religions copy one another anon, but Islam perhaps more than others. Jesus is mentioned in the Qur'an as a prophet.

>>3226270
>Islam's law are incredibly oppressive and yet it survived for 1400 years.

Most places the arabs conquered saw a tax deduction, since the infidel tax was lower than the old roman taxes.
Arabs also gave free schooling to people who convert, so they can be better muslims.

Today islam is shit, since it didn't change much, but back in the day it was pretty good compared to the rest of the old world.

>>3227809
Because christianity developed from judaism, and islam developed from christianity

>>3227672
You have a very poor understanding on religious conversion and religious repression.
>They converted a lot of people through social policies
By social policies you mean when they didn't slaughter all the non believers they imposed the Jizya tax on them, forcing them to convert out of necessity. A tax that fueled their war machine and enabled them to conquer more land and oppress even more people.
>Catholics slaughter people and Muslims are good boys
That's a very narrow mindset and you're handpicking situations that suit your narrative. Both religions massacred non believers and extinguished their cultural heritage, tell me what happened to all the polytheistic beliefs in Berber Africa, Arabia, Syria. There are about as many Zoroastrians as there are neo-pagans so your point doesn't really makes sense.
>Indonesia converted in order to become more trusted trading partners with the Islamic empires.
Hungary, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Bohemia , Finland, Lithuania, all the Baltic states, Wallachia, Bulgaria, Moldavia, Kiev, Moscovy, Novgorod and many other principalities and kingdoms were pagans peacefully converted by the Christians, many did so to be more trusting trade partners. They still maintained their history and cultural heritage.

If you believe Europe is all the same you've clearly not seen much of it. If you believe that the whole reason why pagan worshiping grounds were abandoned was religion, you're very narrow minded. The population density in most of Europe is larger than in the middle east, and the urban population was higher than the rural population everywhere except maybe Russia. You didn't find secluded settlements of Perun worshipers because forests were cleared in order for cities to grow. Europe was also the main front for two world wars where global powers far more oppressive than the Christians and Muslims combined fucked over the countryside and the major cities, erasing tens of millions of lives from the face of the earth.

Islam is still growing. It will never stop because it's the true religion.

You people act like every other religion hasn't done it's fair share of oppression. Hell even the atheists have chipped in with it. The Bible/Hindu beliefs etc. all have just as much heinous stuff. It wasn't Muslims who enacted the Holocaust, or the Rape of Nanking, or were responsible for the Belgian Congo. If you say that those weren't caused by Christianity/Buddhism/Whatever, then stop saying every crap thing that has ever happened in a Muslim country was. The fact is all empires whether they be Roman or Ottoman or Mongol or Abbassid conquer and subjugate people, and they all use religion as one of their many methods of justification. The reason most Muslim countries are crap is because all the countries in their areas are crap regardless of religion. Christian Africa is shitty just like Muslim Africa.

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>>3226270
Better question: Why are muslims so smelly?

>>3227344
>religions with vaguely similar starting conditions develop vaguely similar
Shocker.

>>3227964
Which Muslims? Arabs have had and still have better hygiene than most europeans.

>>3228150
The ones that live near me.

>>3228174
Islam preaches that cleanliness is a pillar of faith

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>>3228186
Doesn't answer my question Ahmed.

>>3226270
Crime for apostasy is death, go figure

>>3228208
The question mark, the question mark, where is it whitey?

Oppression is actually good as long as you oppress the right things.

>>3227864
Um sweetie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades

>>3228358
Those were basically mainly against the schismatics.
Anything Balt related doesn't count, since they weren't sapient before Christianization.

>>3228308
Right here.
>>3227964

>>3226270
>Honest question. Islam's law are incredibly oppressive and yet it survived for 1400 years.
So is christians if you follow them.

Protip: No one follows them

>>3228409
The answer's right here: >>3228186
In other words: The smelliness of those people isn't caused by Islam. Maybe they're not muslims and you're too superficial to figure it out.

>>3227537
>We came down on them like a flood! We went out among their cities! We tore down the idol-temples, We shat on the Buddha's head! - al-Kashgari, Mahmud

WE WUZ PEACEFUL GUYS

>>3228485
Wtf, so many fallacies, what's wrong with /his/ nowadays?

>>3228211
Crime for Apostasy is also death in Catholicism, it's just not enforced nowadays.

>>3228485

> Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

Ayy.

>>3228507
Well, it should.

>>3227964
Different diet mainly. In the case of the oldest ones, they often don't shower every day. But the youngs mostly do so it's diet.

think of it like a virus, those viruses most potent and capable of spreading are most likely to show up in the subsequent generations (which we see the result of in the present around us - the pruning of the viruses that failed to spread only leaves those that collinized and spread)

islam is basically a mind virus, that infects it's host and violently compels the unfortunate host to spread and duplicate itself throughout the enivornment. it is violent, does not comprismise, expicitly tries to preventthe spread of other religions, up to and including killing the hosts of other viruses (other religious people)

it's a real world meme that went viral through violence, intolerance, and murder.

if we view religions like individual genes, then islam is simply that gene which was the fittest, that could adapt and spread throughout it's envirment the quickest, an destroy it's comeptitio

>>3228569
What virus actively works on killing the hosts of other viruses?

>>3227328
> tfw china would be muslim right now if it wasnt for the european cockblocking them in south east asia
What alternative reality are you from? Islam has already spread to China since 9th century, but both Chinese governments and Chinese society(regardless different dynasties) have never converted to Islam, ever. The major Chinese Muslims population still remain in western China.

>>3227375
Balkans mostly did it though I still wonder by Bosnia and Albania(and Kosovo) have such high muslim populations. It kinda makes sense in Albania since you can find a bunch of Albanian generals but Bosnia makes no sense considering Serbia had to have been taken over first.

SAVE THE GREAT LIBRARY

>>3229403
If I'm not wrong, there are more hui than uyghurs in China, they're Han who converted to Islam and mostly located in western and central China

>>3229645
I heard Bosnian themselves were not very christian and kinda heretic, so they easily accept another religion

>>3226349
>So based on our stands, Islam is very oppressive
>based on our stands

And therein your arguement collapses.

>>3229681
Yeah, but Hui are still ethnic minority(only around 11 millions people) which cannot represent whole Chinese society and government, and sometime they'll still call themselves Hui even if they're no longer muslims nowadays. Either way, they have nothing to do with European colonists in SE Asia, and Islam is never the official ideology and religion of Chinese state.

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>>3227864
>comparing zorastrianism to neo-paganism

>>3226270
>le islam is particularly draconic maymay
Muslim empires were as "oppressive" as any other empire that existed for that time.

>>3226482
>The Jahiliyah is a muslim meme.
If you consider the fact that islam has fixed pre-islamic arabia which had tons of tribal fighting and infighting, degeneration of society, paganism (the bad type)

>>3227864
>By social policies you mean when they didn't slaughter all the non believers they imposed the Jizya tax on them, forcing them to convert out of necessity. A tax that fueled their war machine and enabled them to conquer more land and oppress even more people.
Way to show your bias and lack of understanding, retard.

>>3226270
Because Islam isn't more oppressive than any other religion. Punishment of apostates to death, Wearing the veil, Forbidding people to eat Pork, and even Sharia Law isn't something unique to Islam. The other religions have simply been repressed and castrated by Western Liberalism. Islam's values have only recently became morally incorrect because the West switched their religion from Christianity to Liberalism and Capitalism.

>>3226323
There are actually estimated to be more atheists in the Middle East than in the West (excluding the countries which hold vast atheist majorities), but they stay quiet because, you know, threat of death?

>>3227864
> what are the Northern Crusades
Also, Lithuania converted after being threatened with another crusade.

They then played tug of war between the Pope and Patriarch of Constantinople for years before converting (to delay the crusade).

>>3229932
>islam has fixed pre-islamic arabia which had tons of tribal fighting and infighting
...As opposed to the current situation?

>>3230828
True

>>3226270
Probably because it wasn't particularly oppressive.

>>3226337
Are fundamentalists larpers?

>>3233150
The Wahhabis are.

>>3233150
Literally yes; the Koran is their rulebook and Hadith is their fanfic.

What's with the "Islam is INCREDIBLY oppressive" meme, Aside from gay people and women rights which werent a thing in the until the last century (not to forget that Islam is quite young compared to christianity), there isn't much that would qualify as oppresive in Islam, hell even Islamic reforms of slavery were nice compared to how they were treated in the U.S, slaves under Islam are not even seen as being inferior to free men, and Islam awarded freeing slaves actually, I am not saying Islam is nice, but it is not nearly half as bad as the average /pol/tard would have you believe.

>>3233240
>weren't a thing in the west

>>3233240
>hell even Islamic reforms of slavery were nice compared to how they were treated in the U.S, slaves under Islam are not even seen as being inferior to free men, and Islam awarded freeing slaves actually
Yet in practice, many of the last countries to make slavery illegal were Muslim countries.

>>3233254
Practice perhaps, after all idealism can only go so far, material conditions are mosltly what shape society.
The first countries to abolish slavery were the first one to industrialize themselves and go on to exploit people via wages, even by looking at the U.S civil war you can see how the union were the most industrialized while confederates relied most on slave labor for their agriculture, the union did not fight to help those poor slaves, they just had no use for them anymore in a slavery context.

>>3233268
The trigger for it in America might've been industrialisation, but it was already in full swing at the start of the industrial era, and preceded industrialisation in many countries.

Muslim countries were pretty big outliers though, and the practice is still pretty widespread in a number of them.

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>>3233150
Yes. Pic related is a women in traditional dress from 1940's Saudi Arabia in Bariq. The Sauds started promoting Wahhabism and all women in Saudi Arabia started wearing Burqas.

>>3226483
>Second and especially third generation immigrants are usually really different from their parent generations.
Pretty sure a lot of the perpetrators of terrorism in Europe over the past few years have been second or third generation immigrants

>>3233376
Exactly! Completely different!

>>3228507
>Crime for Apostasy is also death in Catholicism, it's just not enforced nowadays.
Because Jesus never said to do that.
The Catholic church made the rule themselves and it was dumb.

>>3228211
First of all, in Quranic verses it's just the equivalent of "You get sent to hell for not believing", there is no reality punishment to it, that is mostly hadith memes.
And just a little devil's advocacy from my part here, but under the law agreed upon most scholars, you have 3 days to repent and go back to the faith, even if it's just by saying the chahada (the equivalent of saying u accept jesus in christianity), so literally no one dies from this meme law unless they are trying to make a political point.

>>3228186
Cleanliness =/= smelliness

>>3233485
Im clean and still stink

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>>3233240
>What's with the "Islam is INCREDIBLY oppressive" meme,

The Qur'an is filled with a lot of beautiful prose.

But the Qur'an is also a book filled with diatribe, distrust, hatred against disbelief, and constant violent expansionism.

For example:
>"Allah has promised the hypocrite men and hypocrite women and the disbelievers the fire of Hell, wherein they will abide eternally. It is sufficient for them. And Allah has cursed them, and for them is an enduring punishment." (9:55)

Who are the hypocrite men and women? 9:38 says they are those "[who] are told to go forth in the cause of Allah, [but] adhere heavily to the earth". In other words, these people were hypocrite because they didn't want to join the Prophet Muhammad in his expansionist battle to Tabuk. They are not child pedophiles, murderers or thieves. They just didn't want to mind their own business and not attack people.

The Quran is riddled with things like this. I memorized an 1/8th of the quran but this stuff never stuck out to me until ISIS happened.

>>3230828
>Wearing the veil, Forbidding people to eat Pork, and even Sharia Law isn't something unique to Islam.
I dont know, canon law was pretty brutal at times in rural E. Europe, but we never had this crap.

>>3228569
Dawkins's theory is unscientific crap, projecting his interesting, yet simplistic selfish gene theory unto unmaterialistic ideas.

When all you have is a hammer.

>>3227357
this. Which is why the indian subcontinent is majority muslim and hindus don't exist...
oh wait.

>>3233528
>Who are the hypocrite men and women?
The Munafiqs. People who claim to adhere to Islam and it's cause, but deep down inside have nothing but contempt for it.

>>3233539
>And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.
>Leviticus 11:7-8

>But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.
>Corinthians, chapter 11.

>If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife— with the wife of his neighbour—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.”
> Leviticus 20:10:

>>3233771
There is unironically nothing wrong with any of these laws. Christians should stop pandering to Liberals and Secularists.

>>3233800
Fuck off, Jew.

Eating pork is a time-honoured White Man's tradition.

>>3226270
the same way christianity did
parasites leeching off the host

>>3226270
They hate dogs.
How can you tolerate a religion that hates dogs?

>>3226270

The question should be, how do we defeat Islam? We struck a deep blow into Christianity. Now how do we strike a similar one in the Mohammedan?

>>3233835
>They hate dogs.
Based. No more Shitbulls and their Cunt owners to maul kids faces.

>>3233835
I honestly dont quite where this hating dog memeing came
Mohammed was a cat lover but he was ambivalent towards dog
It was probably prior arab tradition that enforced this belief

>>3233846
hate for zoroasterism actually, where dogs are considered sacred and they had tenples full of holy dogs.
So when islam came into power the arabs would amuse themselves by torturing dogs and daring the zoroastrians to do something about it.

>>3233846

Which goes to show Islam is just a universalistic excuse to export that shit tier peninsular culture.

>>3233859
>hate for zoroasterism actually, where dogs are considered sacred and they had tenples full of holy dogs.
>So when islam came into power the arabs would amuse themselves by torturing dogs and daring the zoroastrians to do something about it.
seriously where do you get this? why do you post pure speculations as a fact?

the "muslims hate dogs" thing started from a shitty fabricated hadith about archangel Gabriel not being able to reach muhammed and deliver him the oracle because apparently his wife hid a dog under the bed, which started the folklore that angels don't like dogs which made people disdain for them

That hadith of course is pure bullshit

>>3233879
>seriously where do you get this?
His Anus.

>>3233879
Its the work of the syaitan promoting these daif and mawdu hadith my brother
Let Allah save them from their clout and accept the true teachings of the Prophet

>>3233835
Doesn't Al-Quran say that dogs are the most loyal animal?

>>3233835
>loud
>annoying
>smell bad
>obsessed with licking everything
>form packs and hunt people if left alone
>shit all over the cities
yeah, how could people hate them and their horrible owners

>>3227936
The thing that differs islam from say christianity is that it's totalitarian.

>>3233931
holy fuck you're dense
next time fully read the thread

>>3233771
Half the New Testament, especially the parts written by the evul islamic heretic Paul, are basically "do we have to still follow this stuff?
No, because Jesus, not muh Law, ok?"

>>3233835
Not really. Anytime I visit a Muslim family and they have a pet, 9/10 it'll be a cute pupper.

>>3226270
Because "Islam's law" wasn't actual law for most of history. Most works of Islamic law were in fact legal fictions written by scholars who were exploring an imaginary perfect society of perfect Godly virtue.

In reality, law in the Middle East and North Africa was dominated by tribal traditions and centralized bureaucracy. If and when Islamic law was applied, it tended to be a matter of family control by the heads of a household, in disputes between two individuals, or whenever a legal authority wanted his ruling to have moral legitimacy. So they turn to one of these scholars who give them an opinion (which could be rejected or altered or traded for another).

>>3233842
>The question should be, how do we defeat Islam?

Islam is already defeated in my opinion.

I am just waiting for my fellow Muslims to catch up with the news and analyze their religion truthfully.

Ironically, ISIS is the best thing to happen as it is forcing many of us to confront surah al-tawbah.

>>3234193
Not really. ISIS will only have an effect on Wahhabis and Salafis. Shias like Hezbollah, Houthis, and Iran are more stronger than ever and Turkey is slowly becoming Iran 2.0. All ISIS did was usher in the defeat of Wahhabism and Salafism. Islam as a whole won't be going anytime soon, and it is still the fastest growing religion in the world.

>>3234276
Aren't young Iranians leaving Islam? I heard it on youtube, facebook, anywhere. Or this just Iranian larper diasporas' meme? Anyway shias are pretty cool people

>>3234375
Many of them are diaspora fags, but some of them are Iranians who live in urban areas. The ones who live in the Rural areas are extremely religious and have a lot of kids, who replace the the urban ones who leave Islam.

>>3234276
Not to mention Sufism which has a lot of people who convert to it in the West and other regions. The only sects that are getting ''defeated'' are Wahhabis and Salafis.

>>3234375
They're not lying, this is the Iran they see and live in. I've seen it too. But there's also another Iran, less flashy and more numerous, that is still very religious and traditional. It's not only a matter of age since Iran's population is very young.

Think about americans complaining that they're not like that every time euros mock them for their retarded shenanigans. Middle cass tehranis are like that.

>>3234421
>>3234435
So atheists living in the cities while religious muslims living in mountains and rural areas? Interesting

>>3234456
>living in mountains and rural areas

And the less rich parts of the cities, and smaller/less important cities.

>>3234456
>So atheists living in the cities while religious muslims living in mountains and rural areas? Interesting
This isn't really something special to Iran. Go to any Western country and see where the religious live, and where non-religious live.

>>3234466
>>3234459
I'm thinking the atheists are just fell into hedonism, and remember Iran is a theocratic country makes it amazing

I am honestly unironically considering converting to Islam, it's basically the only uncucked religion left, is learning arabic a must

>>3234542
>is learning arabic a must
If you're genuine about it, then kinda yeah.

>>3234542
I don't care if you convert, but for the love of everything. If you are going to convert. then please convert to something like Sufism, or Shia Islam. Stay the absolute fuck away from Wahhabism and Salafism.

>>3234570
>>3234431
>>3234276
>wahabism is the problem

wahabism is just a meme, my dude.

Muhammad Al-Wahhab just cracked open the quran/hadith and started holding people accountable for it. That's why he got power so quickly. Even though the arabs at the time found him strict, they couldn't deny the accuracy of his words.

Same thing would have happened with ISIS if we didn't have the 24/7 news coverage to shame their message.

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>>3234456
Rural and suburban retards vote for theocracy. super high iq city people demand secularism.

>>3234628
>Muhammad Al-Wahhab just cracked open the quran/hadith and started holding people accountable for it. That's why he got power so quickly.
No, he got power by allying with Al-Saud where he would provide religious justification for them to invade all of Arabia, and they in turn, would forcibly spread his views.
>Even though the arabs at the time found him strict, they couldn't deny the accuracy of his words.
Not at all. his teachings were rejected and opposed by many of the most notable Sunni Muslim scholars of the period.
>Laoust, H., “Ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhāb”, in: Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition, Edited by: P. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel, W.P. Heinrichs.
And he was opposed to many of the most popular and established Sunni practices agreed upon by the consensus of the scholars.
>Iḥyāʾ ʿulūm al-dīn 4:490: "Visiting tombs is altogether recommended for remembrance (dhikr) and contemplation (iʿtibār). Visiting the tombs of the righteous is recommended for the purpose of seeking blessings [and] contemplation. The Messenger of God ... forbade visiting tombs and then permitted that afterwards."
Man literally throw away all of the traditions and practices of Islam accumulated before him, and said they were ''Heresy.''

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>>3233346
Don't forget that Western Imperialists manufactured the Islamic boogeyman by overthrowing (*comparatively secular, liberal regimes) and replacing them with the Wahabists we see today.

The Saudis were helped along by the British. The USA disposes of Mossadeghs and Gaddafis and replaces them with Shahs and Jihadists.

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>>3234719
Not exactly true. Many secularists/socialists in the middle east and north Africa started with humble rural beginnings. Look at Gaddafi for example. Dude walked 20 miles to school and slept in a mosque just to get a basic education.

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>>3234733
This guy gets it.

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>>3229885
Here we see a white male culturally appropriating east asian martial arts to reinforce the patriarchy. His woman, successfully oppressed, smiles proudly while serving his will.

>>3234733
is he the muslim luther?

>>3234786
Pretty much.

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>>3234746
>Don't forget that Western Imperialists manufactured the Islamic boogeyman by overthrowing (*comparatively secular, liberal regimes) and replacing them with the Wahabists we see today.
And we still see them do it today. Pic related.

>>3228150
>>3228174
Asians muslims, the downfall of us all

>>3233771
Irrelevant. Old testament laws are not part of Christian doctrine and the new testament is considered man-made (unlike the Quran which is the uncreated word of God for Muslims). What Paul says is only Paul's opinion, not God's. Consider that even a higher level apostle like Peter was explicitly recognized as wrong several times (going as far as to deny Christ).

You can't consider the Quran and the Bible as equivalent within the scope of their respective faith. The precepts of the Quran bind Muslims much more strongly.

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>>3234920
>The ten commandments are not Christian doctrine.

>>3234431
Complete bullshit. The Salafi plague is spreading absolutely everywhere and i don't see it stopping anytime soon.

>>3234466
Nah. Aside from America the rural areas of the West aren't much more religious than cities. In fact if you take into account the fact that in the West the most active religion, Islam, is in cities, the rural areas are probably less religious.

>>3234786
>>3234791
No that would be Al-Ghazali. The guy purged the influence of Greek philosophy from Islam and allowed orthodox Sunni Islam to supplant other strands.

>>3234935
Their validity doesn't derive from the old testament but from being specifically vindicated by the Christ.

>>3226425
From Indonesia, can confirm. People don't really give a shit how you worship god, but most don't really bother to convert away from Islam because it's too much of a hassle for everyone involved.
If anything, people here just follow the basic rules (praying, no haram allowed, ramadhan fasting) and basically just ignore the really oppressive ones.

>>3235282
>people here just follow the basic rules (praying, no haram allowed, ramadhan fasting) and basically just ignore the really oppressive ones.
So basically like modern day Christians.

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>>3234733
>his teachings were rejected and opposed by many of the most notable Sunni Muslim scholars of the period.

The Qur'an warns against following "tradition" like scholars...
>"When it is said to them: “Follow what Allah has sent down." They say: “Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following." (2:170)

If the scholars don't agree with the Qur'an/Hadith, the latter gets priority. Al-Wahhab read the hadith about destroying idols and he likewise destroyed shrines that were being objectively worshiped in Saudi Arabia at the time. The ulema followed tradition but Al-Wahhab actually followed the letter and spirit of the law. And the overwhelming population agreed. He wouldn't have been able to galvanize Al-Saud's men and conquer Arabia without having that islamic legitimacy in front of his people. (that's actually why Al-Saud slyly allied with him).

>>3235282
We can see the radicals growing in our country tho, good thing I live in Semarang

>>3226270
The Koran and other bases for Islamic law aren't exactly "incredibly oppressive" compared to the Abrahamic and other traditional laws they are based on.
Frankly your very ignorant about how ancient societies worked. Even Rome and the Greeks had extremely repressed societies where women couldn't be in public without guardians and veils and many abitrary laws with strict punishments existed all throughout the world. Islamic law would not have been very foreign to most of the world for much of those 1400 years.
And no, Im not shilling for pisslam

>>3235288
>So basically like modern day Christians.
Pretty much, yeah. Most of SEA is super chill when it comes to religion, but a lot of people usually just take what's written down on scriptures and base their assumptions on it.
In an alternate world, the Muslim version of /pol/ would probably be berating Christians for inhumane passages that they don't even follow.

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>>3235305
>mfw i'm just two hours away from you.
Let's meet up senpai, so i can rape your unislamic ass.

>>3235708
You must be from Jog-Jakarta

>>3235198
Ghazali was more like Aquinas.

>>3235291
>The ulema followed tradition but Al-Wahhab actually followed the letter and spirit of the law. And the overwhelming population agreed. He wouldn't have been able to galvanize Al-Saud's men and conquer Arabia without having that islamic legitimacy in front of his people. (that's actually why Al-Saud slyly allied with him).

The overwhelming population (of Basra) humiliated him and kicked him out of their city. The miniscule population of the Nejd only followed him because he made a marriage alliance with the Al-Sauds, whose men brutalized any opposition to Wahhabism.