does this picture represent /his/?

Only if /pol/ is communist, the man with the gun is a hero to american troops.

>>3222022
think he was the police chief of saigon

>>3222023

Yeah and he protected the lives of our soldiers. The guy in that photo was a known murderer of the family members of south vietnam soldiers.

>>3222027
Poor guy got his life ruined because of a photo

>>3222037

People say it showed the horror of the war, but no laws were broken there
>The execution appalled many people, but was most likely legal as Lém was acting like a "francs-tireurs". According to Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949, irregular forces are entitled to prisoner of war status provided that they are commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, have a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry arms openly, and conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. If they do not meet all of these, they may be considered francs-tireurs (in the original sense of "illegal combatant") and punished as criminals in a military jurisdiction, which may include summary execution. Lém had murdered a POW and civilians thus violating the rules of war. He was not marked by any identifiable marker showing that he was a combatant.

So yeah, legally he had the right to blow the guy's brains out right there,

>>3222040
Nice, I didn't know this. Why are liberals always wrong?

>>3222049

In fairness, literally all the photo said in description was "General Nguyen Ngoc Loan Executing a Viet Cong Prisoner in Saigon". That doesn't tell you even a fraction of the why behind it.

>>3222040
>>3222049
>He was not marked by any identifiable marker showing that he was a combatant.
which is why /pol/ posters need to be identified

>>3222023
He was also a Major General of the army.

>>3222040
>>3222049
>People say it showed the horror of the war, but no laws were broken there
Jesus Christ, is that all it takes for you to not be appalled? That it was positive law?
Literally the kind of person that becomes lackeys to the Nazi regime.

I'd still say that people that could've been normal neighbours two decades earlier executing each other on the street because one of them murdered innocent or defenseless people related to the war to be an illustration of the horrors of war, even if it is lawful according to the rules of war. War is horrifying even without the rules of war being broken.

>>3222089

I kinda lose sympathy for someone being executed when they murdered women and children just to make a point.

>>3222112
You don't need to have sympathy for that murderer to find the situation horrifying.

The situation is already horrifying by the mere fact that these murders happened because of the war and that he wouldn't have murdered those people if it hadn't been for the war.

>>3222119
(And that the general had to execute someone, in addition to having to execute him in such a way.)

>>3222119

Yeah but that's the nature of war, it's always been that way, still is today. I fought in one, and even if it was a "modern counterinsurgency" instead of a big army vs army war, shit like this still happens. You just get used to it after a while.

What's the old saying? The fresh recruit sees a dead child and breaks down in tears, while the old veteran sees pile of dead children and just shrugs?

>>3222119
>You don't need to have sympathy for that murderer to find the situation horrifying.

Yes you do. I look at this and think "what a great outcome, one less red pig!"

>>3222130
edgy

File: Himmler_after_suicide.jpg (72KB, 700x556px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3222132
>DURR

So you look at this picture of Himmler after he was beaten and "committed suicide" and think "oh, WOE! Such is the pity of war!"? No, you think "hahaha, good riddance to a murderous psychopathic nazi faggot".

>>3222125
If you're actually addressing my claim, which was from the start that the image is a fine illustration of the horrors of war, with an argument here, then your argument makes absolutely no sense because it boils down to "it's not horrible because horrible things happen in war."

>>3222144
Of course
Humans have no right to take each others lives to their hand

>>3222147

I'm not saying it isn't horrible, I'm just saying more of "yeah, it's a bitch aint it"

>>3222144
I feel mild unease because I'm looking at a corpse.

>>3222151

Liar.

>>3222154

Faggot.

>>3222162
At least I'm not an edgy /b/tard.

>>3222170
>HURR its edgy to want justice for child-killing psychopaths!

Moron.

>>3222154
t. female

>>3222130
Do you not have sympathy for the executioner then? I doubt he enjoyed the executions.
What about the families of the executioned?
What about the families of the victims of the murderer?
What about the victims themselves?

>>3222177
But that's not what you're doing, you're coming of as being particularly gleeful about the very act of execution which is kinda an indicator of an unhinged personality.

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>>3222020
Are we jerking ourselves off?

South Vietnam was a hollow post-colonial project and I'm glad it's dead. Not even a commie.

>>3222184
that was the point of the thread, but sadly it got derailed by a semi-serious discussion kek

>>3222184
anyone have the photo of the caesar dog guy as /his/ and that mad doggo as /pol/

>>3222183

No, I'm pointing out that once you know the story, this image is not horrifying but glorious, just as dead Himmler is not tragic but glorious.

>>3222208
So, you're perfectly fine with people having gotten murdered, since the murderer got executed?

>>3222208
See, there you go again. Dead bodies and executions aren't glorious. You're unhinged.

>>3222212
tone down the moralfaggotry pls. I don't necessarily agree with him but this is 4chan ffs people are allowed to revel in violence.

>>3222020
little known fact, the guy executed was caught killing police officers and their families including children.

But most people like to ignore that.

>>3222027
>The guy in that photo was a known murderer of the family members of south vietnam soldiers.

I hear that statement a lot, but was it ever actually proven?

>>3222040

Like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500.

>>3222212
>>3222217

I'm not insane so I don't consider that what is true of one photo must be true of all photos. This particular picture is widely used in order to solicit sympathy for the man being killed, and by extension for Communist terrorists generally. Once you know the man is not some heroic resistor but a despicable killer of women and children, the power of the photo to elicit sympathy vanishes, just as knowing who Himmler was his death picture an object of mockery and not of reverence for death, or peon to our shared humanity.

>>3222462
>I hear that statement a lot, but was it ever actually proven?

Nguyen Ngọc Loan was a South Vietnamese National Police Major General.
Nguyen Van Lem was a Viet Cong captain captured near a mass grave with ~40 family members of National Police officers. He admitted responsibility for the killings and professed pride over the acts.
When General Loan realized who's he dealing with, he immediately drew his sidearm and executed the prisoner on the spot in front of an AP photographer, who later won a Pulitzer for the picture. Witnessing the consequences of taking that photo, he later proclaimed "I killed the general with my camera".

General moved to the US after Fall of Saigon and opened a Pizzeria in DC.
After someone finally ID'd him, his business suffered, with people refusing to patron a business led by "murderer of innocents".
General died of cancer in 1998.

>>3222442
depresses me that i had to find this out through cracked.com

>>3222020
what's up with /lit/?

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>>3222020
no but this does

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on that note

>>3222020
That guy was a war criminal being lawfully executed after a trial. He was condemned to death for the murder of about 30 civilians. The scene was filmed to show north Viet war criminal what is going to happen to them if they continue to slaughter civilians.

>>3222503
An unexpected turn in the pizza business of D.C.

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>>3222462
>Lém arrested Lieutenant Colonel Nguyen Tuan with his family and forced him to show them how to drive tanks.[3]
>When Lieutenant Colonel Tuan refused to cooperate, Lém killed Tuan, his wife and six children and his 80-year-old mother by cutting their throats.

Yeah, the whole story sounds fishy.
He cut throats, but has no blood on him.
He was the leader of unit that captured military base, where are other member of the unit.
If he is the leader, shouldn't you at least interrogate him before execution, he could provide valuable info.
If he is civilian's murderer, you wouldn't want him to die easy.

Or he could be some random rebel and the general killed him to release his anger
and the civilian's murder was connected to him later to make the general look not so bad.

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>>3222020
Shoo shoo, partisan shill

>>3222561
Well that didn't turn out to be a very good idea, did it

>>3222020
More accutate would be /pol/ shooting Africa and /his/ being an horrified leftist witness of the scene

>>3222089
>Hurr durr da nazis
Unlike the victims of Nazism, this guy had it coming

>>3222040
>People say it showed the horror of the war, but no laws were broken there
Nobody, even Unlawful combatant, can be executed without court's decision.
It could be drumhead court-martial, but minimal formalities must be fulfilled.
At least a verdict must written and then signed by few peoples before shooting.
The law was definitely broken in this case and the crime remained unpunished.

When you see that chief of police is breaking the law on camera, you know that the country is doomed.

>>3223714
Literal spies, saboteurs, and pirates are allowed to be executed on the spot though.

>>3223714
Wrong.
>>3223933
Correct.

> a guy with the gun
> /his/
Fuck off reddit

>>3222119
Literally nothing horrifying about a flag officer carrying out a field execution of a sapper known to have murdered the families of local policemen.

It's a shame that when people fight for freedom, you benefit.

>>3223714
Like most /his/ posters, you're absolutely 100% wrong.

>>3223714
>chief of police

He's a flag officer in the military, not a fucking cop.

You absolute pogue.

>>3223933
>>3223957
>>3223979
See Geneva convention
>Article 3
>In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in
>the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict
>shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
>1)Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of
>armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat
>by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all
>circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction
>founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any
>other similar criteria.
>To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time
>and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

>a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
>b) taking of hostages;
>c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
>d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without
> previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees
> which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

>>3224095
Now read article 4 dummy

>>3224095
>not of an international character

>>3224181
What did you want to say?

>Article 4
>Neutral Powers shall apply by analogy the provisions of the present Convention to the wounded and sick, and to members of the medical personnel and
>to chaplains of the armed forces of the Parties to the conflict, received or interned in their territory, as well as to dead persons found

If you meant something else you should
give name of convention (there are few of them)
give number of chapter.

>>3224209
Viet Cong were rebel forces of South Vietnam if you didn't know.
Vietnam was one country, division was temporarily according to Geneva agreements of 1954.

File: Saigon execution Murder of a Vietcong by Saigon Police Chief, 1968.jpg (68KB, 1600x1009px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3222020
It's more like this, though.

>>3224437
Ah yes, the "/b/ used to be good" delusion.

>>3224392
>Viet Cong were rebel forces of South Vietnam
>people still believe this

What is this, 1968?

>>3223933
>allowed to be executed on the spot though
Please don't encourage war crimes
>spies, saboteurs, and pirates
They just don't have POW status, otherwise their rights are protected if they are captured alive.

But you can kill them in action without capturing of course.
Or execute them after trial.

>>3224450
POW status guarantees rights, if they don't have POW status because they are spies or saboteurs or pirates which rights are you referring to? Is a world war ii era German spie mucking about in the shipyards trying sabotage ships entitled to a fair and speedy trial?

>>3224445
>/b/ was never good.
It true though. /pol/ stopped being a board and became THE board. Every discussion about anything on any board now involves ironic and non-ironic jewposting, [insert colour]pillposting and a lowered level of disclosure due to the normalfag-reddit influx over the last 3 years. I've been here since 2007 and it was never that bad.

>>3224476
Everybody has rights in our day and age.
If a person is not combatant, then he is a civilian.
PoW status guarantees that the person will not be judged for killing enemy combatants if he didn't break laws of war.

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>>3222020
Its what reddit will have you believe. But the truth is that's literally a right wing gentlemen blowing the brains of a commie limp wristed faggot.


Any questions?

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>>3224645
This

>>3224620
>What is an unlawful combatant.
TL;DR summary executions are lawful under the right circumstances

>>3224706
>summary executions are lawful under the right circumstances
It depends on your country. They are forbidden by international conventions, but some countries value their domestic laws and customs higher than international.
USA are more lenient to this practice as in last century they still had tradition to summary execute black people.

>>3224987
>they are forbidden by international conventions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXtHd25RyV4

>>3222022
This

The commie should be /leftypol/ with /pol/ instead of /lit/ with /his/ showing him how its done

>>3222020
Something interesting I learned recently: This wasn't actualy a picture, its a frame taken from a video. If you look closely, you can see that the original photographer chose this specific frame because the police chief holding the revolver has depressed the trigger (bullet hasn't fire yet). This is literally the last frame of the dude on the right's life. Really makes me think.

>>3222089
People who murder the defenseless and innocent to advance an ideology deserve death, regardless of ideology.

>>3224620
Again, terrorists/sappers/spies are not protected people under any convention, and nobody is protected under a convention they did not sign.

Perfectly lawful field execution. General was judge, jury and executioner.

>>3223692
There we go

>>3222020
This is image of justice against the commie scum. I wish there were a thousand examples made for the hippy scum that were protesting the war back at home. Makes my blood boil.

>>3224620
>killed civilians
>used a hidden weapon
>had no identifying marks on him indicating he's combatant
That is by definition an illegal combatant, and the law says we can kill them without taking them prisoner because they've violated the rules of war.

>>3225033

Then how are we any different from the communist regimes that purge all dissent?

>>3225049
Because we have level-headed people who follow the law and are there to hold back frothing retards like >>3225033

>>3225024
A man is innocent until his guilt is proven in court.

>>3225057

Yeah but I meant in that specific scenario

>>3225082

This being Nam, if he wasnt murdered right there he would've just been thrown into a POW camp where he'd get tortured for weeks.

>>3225049
>>3225057
Because snowflake we were at war and purging the nation of commie hippy scum would have ensured victory against the enemy.

And fuck your rule of law. The law is for faggots and losers when we are at war against an enemy that values no life.

>>3225004
You never saw the video?

>>3225106
No, I always thought it was just a picture.

>>3225099
Neck yourself.

>>3225094
Yes, he was lucky.
Avoided tortures, became hero, became worldwide famous.

>>3222037
Teaches you to trust the (((press)))

>>3225029
>Again, terrorists/sappers/spies are not protected people under any convention

In international conflicts if they are part of military forces or official militia,
they are still under protection and must become PoWs if they didn't commit crimes like attacking civilian facilities.

In non-international conflicts they can be persecuted as traitors or terrorists,
but they are still protected by Article 3 of general provisions.

>nobody is protected under a convention they did not sign.

No, in international conflict if a side of conflict declares that it follows the convention
it must be treated as part of the convention.

In non-international conflicts a side which signed the convention is still bound by Article 3 of general provisions.

>>3222130
Literally blinded by ideology

>>3225512
>In international conflicts if they are part of military forces or official militia,
He wasn't though, that's the key thing. He was not marked by any identifiable marker showing that he was a combatant, and he had no superior to be accountable for his actions. He was acting as a rogue soldier.

>>3225512
>>3225512
>In international conflicts if they are part of military forces or official militia,
Which he wasn't
>if they didn't commit crimes like attacking civilian facilities.
Which he did. He killed the civilian family of a soldier because the soldier wouldn't show him how to drive a tank.

>>3225043
>law says we can kill them without taking them prisoner because they've violated the rules of war
There is no such law.

>>3225512
Pic related murdered the families of police officers, i.e. civilians.

Again, it's a shame people have fought and died for your freedom; you're really not worth it.

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>>3225512
just dropping in to say you're a fucking idiot

>>3225645
exactly

>>3225606
>Which he did. He killed the civilian family of a soldier because the soldier wouldn't show him how to drive a tank.
>>3225669
>Pic related murdered the families of police officers, i.e. civilians
It's only your speculations which were never proven in court. While the guy killing cuffed prisoner is undeniable truth.

>>3225695
>which were never proven in court
the fucking guy who took the picture knew the story before he took it, what kind of trial would you organize if you were a general of the national police and they dragged a dude to you on the street and said they caught him by a fucking mass grave filled with police officer's family members bodies and that he already admitted everything and that he's actually proud of it? You would fucking off him. There was a trial. A very pragmatic and very fast one, but a trial nonetheless. Unless you're a bleeding heart retard, who would put a self-proclaimed mass murderer behind bars to drain a country at war, or someone who believes general was rused by some butthurt subordinate into killing someone he personally disliked, you would do exactly the same thing. The fact that they didn't fuck around and executed him in front of American cameras instead of dragging him into some basement, is a prety good indicator that they were pretty damn convinced of his guilt.

>>3224437
10/10

>>3222144
I hate the Nazis, but I would have preferred Himmler had not been beaten and had received a fair trial with no death penalty option.

>>3225877
for what purpose?

>>3225161
Make me hippie. I can't believe traitors like you still exist.

>>3225887
Because I think justice should be impartial and the death penalty is a bad idea because it might kill innocents, gives government a taste for blood, and demeans society as a whole. However much I hate Nazis, am convinced of Himmler's guilt, and am convinced that the man captured was actually Himmler, i think it is better to not make exceptions.

>>3225099
Not the hippie guy

But what would winning have accomplished? The USSR collapsing was pretty much inevitable, and either way the whole reason the war started was because a referendum on unification promised in the 1954 Paris agreement never happened. 50,000 American boys died in Vietnam for fucking nothing, even if we had won somehow. Vietnam is a lesson not in committing to winning wars, but avoiding them.

>>3225915
Life sentences benefit no one though. The one in a million case where they actually find out 20 years later dude is actually innocent are sad, but they should urge people to conduct more thorough investigations, not drain the taxpayer with convicts who will spend their entire lives in concrete blocks

>>3225735
According to Tom Buckley, at first Loan thought he killed ordinary sapper.
Month after the event he said the prisoner was commander of sapper squad and he killed only one cop, but name was different, not Lem.
So the prisoner being mass killer is a late revision.
Also Loan was connected with opium traffic.

>>3222629
>killed him to release his anger
Yep, pretty much.

>>3225933
I disagree. Life sentences, as opposed to the death penalty, benefit society as a whole despite their costs because they are a tangible manifestation of society trying to live up to the finest sort of liberal ideals. When the justice system aspires to such heights of morality, the entire society is elevated.

>>3222040
>If it's legal due to some law no regular citizen knows about then it's morally correct !

Good goy

>>3222183
I am gleeful about the execution of people that deserve it because that's justice. Historically people used to gather and cheer the execution of murderers. It's a good thing to make murderers and other criminals afraid of the wrath of the public.

>>3228368
>due to some law no regular citizen knows about.
That doesn't matter. It's a law ands it's a good law too.

>>3228564
I guess the germans were in the end morally justified in hanging all those partisans, or rather, "non-combatants", on the eastern front:^)

>>3228576
Partisans are comatatants, so yes.

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>>3228576
Vietnamese people are True Aryans.

>>3222020
This guy was my friends grandfather. When they opened a restaurant here in the states people thought he was evil and would harass them all the time.
She gave a speech about him one day in High School and it pretty cool. I don't remember much of it but at least I know the back story for the pic now.