Are radical leftist retarded?

>>3206641
You are forgetting that God exists and a society like that under Him is the ONLY society that can work. Every form of government has failed and every form of government has been made up by man.

>>3206641
Leftists, despite all their fancy "theories", actually don't care much for theory. They just want to destroy those that are more succesfull than themselves, out of sheer jealousy. The veneer of theory is just a rationalization for their feelings and actions.

>>3206650
Sounds like /pol/ if you ask me.

>>3206649
>>3206650
please no shitposting

>>3206641
My biggest issue with communism is it attempts to bring everyone together and make them equal. We aren't equal. There are dumb people, smart people, try hard people, lazy people, lucky people, unlucky people, etc...

We aren't equal and ever will be

>>3206671
This is how you identify an atheist.

>>3206671
communism doesn't want to make everybody equal, it only wants to share the products of human labour equally

>>3206679
Not the same anon but it has nothing to do with being an atheist or not. What he said is true and completely accurate, is it "politically correct"? No. However PC culture doesn't belong in at least two areas of society, history and war.


"Nobody is equal to anybody, even the same man is not equal to himself on different days".

>>3206689
But why though? Why should I work harder to provide for Lazy Larry? If I'm a doctor with a degree in neuroscience be on the same level as a McDick employee?


Communism is literally the most cancerous thing to be birthed onto mankind.

americans are so heavily indoctrined to believe they are better than their fellow americans even the thought of sharing something is weird to them

>>3206702
>But why though? Why should I work harder to provide for Lazy Larry? If I'm a noble with a several fiefs be on the same level as a serf?
>Enlightenment is literally the most cancerous thing to be birthed onto mankind.

>>3206702
you aint any better, you like neuroscience, he likes flipping burgers, whats the issue? its not the same level anyway even in communism

or are you a piece of shit who only does stuff to get approvement from others? similar to religious ppl who needs a supernatural entity not be a shitty human being?

>>3206714

>unironically comparing class based ownership to someone providing an invaluable service by working and studying hard.

retard

>>3206727
I can't believe you can't see the irony here

>>3206702
>A conniving employee of some type of vulture firm is as desirable as an poor laborer struggling to feed his family.
This is why "socialistic" regulations are needed to prevent monopolies and provide you with a proportionate cable, internet, clothes prices and avoid allowing you to be shafted by scummy crooks.

>>3206714
You don't inherit by title a neuroscience degree, you dumb leftypolnigger

>>3206714
>>3206721
>>3206727
>>3206785

Yes because a person who puts in the years and time and effort to become something "great" should essentially be on the same level as the barista at Starbucks with the afro-carribean studies degree.

Fuck off, humans are not meant to be equal we never have and never will be.

Christ it was /pol/ yesterday and it's lefty/pol/ this morning.

>>3206805
>Yes because a person who puts in the years and time and effort to become something "great" should essentially be on the same level as the barista at Starbucks with the afro-carribean studies degree.
How do you measure how much work somebody puts into study? It is possible that barista at Starbucks put even more effort in afro-carribean study degree

>>3206820
>How do you measure how much work somebody puts into study?
You let the market figure it out.

You might put in a lot of work memorizing worthless pomo garbage, but if it's worthless in the free market, your compensation for your work will be commensurate.

>>3206820
How much effort would someone put on jacking-off for 50 years? I'm legitimately curious, the so-called masturbation technique was developed by many people yet they remain unrewarded. The question is, how much gold is jacking-off worth?

>>3206822
and people whose effort isn't required by the free market die off?

>>3206650
That's actually Nazism you're thinking of.

>>3206829
I think everyone can muster up the intellectual power to flip burgers or mop floors.

>>3206839
Nazism actually doesn't pretend like it has much theory behind it.

But for 100 years now leftist """intellectuals""" have written long and obtuse tomes to just rationalize their daddy issues and repressed homosexuality.

>>3206846
but your original argument here >>3206805
was that people should be rewarded for the effort they put into studying
here however >>3206829
you say that it's not the effort, its the utility that should be rewarded.
So which one is it?

>>3206689
Yeah that's retarded. I'm better than a ton of people on this planet therefore I deserve a bigger reward.

>>3206865
The underlying idea would be that you'd put your efforts into something productive.

Of course the value of the thing you put effort into will determine your compensation.

>>3206820
The only effort involved in any humanities degree is the mental gymnastics

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>>3206641
Yes

Leftists believe that human nature doesn't exist, and humans are blank slates entirely moulded by their environment. This allows them to justify any theoretical society. They believe that humans only dominate each other because they're raised in a capitalist society, and they won't care about competition, money, and status if raised in a communist society.

>>3207057
Artificially inflated value as loan sharks don't increase gdp in a genuine way.

>>3207107
Actually they believe in imposing restrictions because of historically and presently observable human behavior.

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>>3206641
Communism is the future

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>>3207107
>>3206650
>>3206649
Socialism is selfinterest classcucks.

Not as retarded as radical capitalists and the ministers to "superior men" i.e. faschits.

>>3207135
Kind of the debunks the "don't believe in personal property" meme.

>>3207135
Imagine if this quote were real. Imagine the sheer butthurt and attempted damage control it would generate on /pol/.

Sigh. Nother left - /pol/ shitflinging thread guaranteed to make over 100 replies and be up for at least a few days.

>>3206712
Our first colony in Jamestown started out with a communal egalitarian scheme for food and everybody nearly starved to death.
John Smith changed the rule to 'if you don't work, you don't eat' and a little over 300 years we whooped Europes ass.

>>3206641
Daily reminder that hierarchies are not only the natural result of a developed society, they are also beneficial.

>>3207168
Like socialism is the natural result of philosophical and political progress.

>>3207167
I don't know people seemed to have worked very hard during the potato famine and other alleged famines rightists love to cite. Perhaps it's a question of something other than alleged work exertion.

Rightist in this thread make justified points about how neurosurgery and other hard-to-reach jobs should be rewarded better, but go full retard with their "everyone who is poor is just lazy" and "the free market will fix everything" bs.

Leftists in this thread make justified points about how predatory market speculators and golden parachute CEO's are not into any way beneficial or deserving of rewards and are actually shitting up the market, but go full retard in their "oy vey, it's another feudalism" on everything.

>>3206650
Leftism is revenge porn for lazy, stupid people.

>>3207263
The answer is regulated capitalism, no extreme is going to work. In what extend we should regulate though, that's the real question.

>>3207315
I guess that's why it appealed to all those legendary slackers, like coal miners and 19th century factory workers, before the West started adding some measures to ensure they are treated fairly.

>>3207315
>The answer is regulated capitalism, no extreme is going to work.
I agree.
>In what extend we should regulate though, that's the real question.
Im a fan of ordoliberalism.

>>3207328
firs part was meant for
>>3207302

>>3206641
>Moneyless society
>From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
That's essentially how early societies operated. In a Germanic village, you'd do what you could to help provide and in turn people would take care of you.

>>3206671
That's wrong.

>From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

Disproves your idea already because if everyone were equal everyone's abilities and needs would be the same.

>>3207107
The political right denies human nature as well though.

The political left argues that people are essentially the same and that it's discrimination, different starting conditions, etc. which cause social disparity, so by their logic if we positively discriminate the underprivileged we'll achieve equality.

The political right argues that people are essentially the same and that it's some people working harder than others which causes social disparity and that the inequality we have is thus only just.

Both are wrong. The poor are for the most part poor because they lack the abilities that are in demand within a modern society. Frankly, most the poor are poor because they're not smart enough. The political left won't change the status quo through positive discrimination and the political right wants to essentially punish people for something they've been born with and blames them for something they cannot change.

>>3207343
So it's almost like decent and hardworking yet uneducated and naive manual laborer are easily seduced by a flashy ideology. They treat it like some sick religion, become zealots themselves, and devolve into lazy, spiteful bastards.

>>3207356
>In a Germanic village, you'd do what you could to help provide and in turn people would take care of you.
Now where's the part where a colossal state comes in and threatens to kill them all?

>>3207356
Key word being Germanic, not all ethnic groups exhibit communalism.

>>3207455
Well, if one of them decided to live in a corner of the village put a fence around it and declare it his property and then decided that he won't help out a fellow villager in need because he's not entitled to the fruits of his labour, and traded with enemy tribes because he's a free person who can do business with whomever he wants, you can bet that they wouldn't adhere to the NAP for long.

>>3207396
I agree with you but due to the heredity of intelligence (and the fact that the stupid tend to breed more) the only sustainable and rational option is the "right wing" one, since taxing the deserving to subsidize the undeserving will eventually lead to collapse due to too many undeserving leeching off fewer and fewer deserving. The "left wing" option is impossible unless you implement eugenics.

>>3207475
I second this. We subsidize poor genes and it'll be the death of civilization. Going against evolution, it doesn't actually help the less viable members of society. It just stunts their development.

>>3207475
The problem with that option is that it strains the cohesion of society. It's not like the 'stupid' are incapable of survival - they've been surviving for aeons perfectly fine. They just cannot make money within the very constraint economics of a modern society. They can however make money in more primordial societies by more primordial means, and that's what they are going to do. The result is chaos. It's much easier to subsidise them. And in fact: most European societies already do that.

>>3207505
>Going against evolution
That's nonsense though. It would be utterly foolish to interpret natural "purpose" into the societies we're living in. Someone who cannot become a doctor or engineer might be perfectly capable of ploughing a field or holding a rifle - it's just that he doesn't get the opportunity to do so any more. After society breaks down at some point however, such skills might become more valuable again. Also, as I said in >>3207520, the fact that they cannot make a living the proper way does not mean they're going to kill themselves. They'll help themselves somehow and whatever they do is going to result in a less functional society.

>>3207535
I'd love to see a more traditional society, but I think we're too far up the creek for that. I just hope enough culture and genetic potential is preserved post collapse to restart things.

>>3206666
Bugger off satan

>>3207396
What I never understood is the following: marxists were criticised, fairly so, for not taking into account potential abuse and corruption. But why does capitalism, which actively rewards psychopathic malice, get a free pass? How is enabling antisocial behavior and short-sighted greed going to result in a functioning system that benefits all?

>>3206671
too bad it doesn't want to do that lmao

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>>3207429
>it is another my psychoanalysis of people i despise turns out to be a negative episode
And those rich people who are socialists have their own sets of mental illness right?

>>3207120
>a stateless society in which the workers control the means of production and organise without any state or central leadership
>and organise without any state or central leadership
isn't this a contradiction? if workers organize, isn't this organisation a state by definition?

>>3207356
>and in turn people would take care of you
people would take care of you, but it doesn't mean that everybody was equal.
The best hunter/warrior in the village had a much higher status and more material goods than the village fool who contributed nothing

>>3206702
If you were to become a doctor, it shouldn't be because it's a high paying job, or because it's prestigious. It should be because that's the profession you want to exercise, and because you want to be a productive citizen and help your society.

>>3207716
Spot on buddy, everyone wants to be the savior. I don't despise these people, I'd love to see them in a healthy market society where they live within their means. Crony capitalists deserve the shaft just as much as socialists. The normal human condition isn't egalitarianism or cutthroat capitalism, it's a competitive but cordial free market society where men are equal under God and the law but are not made equal in talent or outcome.

>>3206805
Don't consider it as "payment". You do your work to society because you want to, and other people do theirs and in the process they provide for you. Everybody works for eachother to enable for everyone to pursue their interests.

>>3207753
normal human condition is living in tribes and hunting mammoths

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>>3206641
>easy to disprove
go ahead then, lets hear it, how can you disprove a stateless society?

>>3207762
what if nobody wants to clean toilets?

>>3207774
Wrong, eurasians have for thousands of years evolved towards a family-centric property based society.

But you're probably a creationist, since you're a leftist.

>>3207774
I should have said optimal, not normal.

>>3207775
stateless society lacks the level of central organization and hierarchy to defend itself against a hostile neighbour who has a state and a organized military.

>>3207784
optimal for what?
power? living conditions? happyness? progress?

>>3207753
Wow what a unfalsilible non argument if you have a convenient explanation for all facets of socialists.

>Crony capitalists
Your mistake is thinking the problems of the systems are due to perversions, not its logical consequence

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>>3207786
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Insurrectionary_Army_of_Ukraine
>successfully mutiny against the bolsheviks
>defeat numerically superior white army and cur their lines of supply, saving Moscow and probably the whole soviet union
>stabbed in the back by Trotsky (the irony)

apparently anarchists can defeat state armies

>>3206641
They don't need to think it works. They only need to know that the people on top live very well for doing very little, and that's where they want to be.

>>3207748
That also depended on the village fool's family's status.

However, the idea that Communism believed in equality is factually wrong. See what I wrote below in response to >>3206671. In fact, I'd argue that many Communist/Socialist systems were a lot more aware of differing talents than today's society's are. If you were good at something and your talent was recognised you'd be put through the necessary education to make sure your talent would prosper - however, with your talent also came the obligation to use it for the good of society as a whole.

>>3207793
All of the above, it allows the true genius of the individual to flourish and benefit society as a whole. After all, progress is a consequence of great individuals shouldering the burden of exceptionality for the benefit of mankind, selfless by choice. The collective allows for the diffusion of responsibility, making great minds impotent and average minds dangerous.

>>3207809
any examples that managed to exist longer than 3 years?

>>3207799
Crony capitalists are a tumor that grow in a healthy body, we treat the cancer and strengthen the body. A consequence of life is illness, but ending life to end illness obviously isn't the solution.

>>3207825
that's just retarded. If there was a form of society that was always best at everything, then every country would follow this model eventually

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>>3207809
So this image is true?

>>3207809
Nice chetnik flag =^)

>>3207753
>it's a competitive but cordial free market society where men are equal under God and the law but are not made equal in talent or outcome
That's wrong though. Naturally, Humans have always lived in tribes and they worked towards a common goal within that tribe - most of all survival. There was of course internal competition to some extent but in the end, people were cooperative more than they were competitive. Competition was between other tribes - most of all after people start to settle down. The period of the first human settlements being the period of the first mass graves too.

Human history has rarely been competition between individuals, it has most of all been competition between groups - many of which were bonds of unconditional solidarity such as family.

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>>3207809
So, this is the power of "anarchism"

>>3207846
Your problem is that you think people with mankind's best interests at heart are running the show. Why would they want a better world for all of they lose their grip on power?

>are leftists retarded

Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be leftists.

>>3207829
all of human history before around 5000BC
north america before 1500 (excluding mexico)
Zomia
Freetown Christiania
Rojava
EZLN in Chiapas
i could go on but i wont

>>3207882
because your system is the best at everything, including beeing the most powerful

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>>3207855
essentially yes

>>3207863
this is a chetnik flag, observe the difference and also how you're a fucking moron

>>3207871
so this is the power of "memes"

>>3207841
Even you admit you are clearly going capitalism's nature, yet you mock leftists for going against human nature, when you are. Lol

Why contain it? All of FDR's work to save capitalism from itself ala New Deal has already faded barely 100 years after his policies.

The only end to this pointless struggle against crony capitalism for a humane one is socialism

>>3207891
>all of human history before around 5000BC
>north america before 1500 (excluding mexico)
really? thats your argument? you wanna live as a hunter-gatherer?

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>>3207915
did you even read the rest of my post?

>>3207869
We no longer live in a tribal society. But we can certainly still cooperate when necessary, I pay taxes that ideally go to things like national defense, infrastructure, and space exploration. Too much of a good thing, though, will squander resources and make for a vulnerable economy.

>>3207919
if you also think that those two examples were bullshit, why even mention them?

>>3207906
So venezuela is true socialism too?

>>3207893
These people operate outside the parameters of an ethical society.

>>3207926
when did i say those examples were bullshit? you asked for examples, i gave them, what more do you want?

>>3207927
>true socialism
this kind of evangelical attitude towards left wing ideologies is why labor camps happen, Venezuela is a country attempting to free itself from the grip of the USA and international finance, and is being duly attacked by those institutions for trying to be free

>>3207939
so your system is inheritly unstable, because those in power will always try to change it

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>>3207906
Why today ancom seems to support tanki remiges and use tanki propaganda? are they just memeing or they supporting them unironically?

>>3206641
How can those concepts be "disproven"? How do you look at the radical transformations experienced by human society thus far and conclude that further change is impossible?

>>3207953
mainly to piss off capitalists, but ancoms don't really actually or meaningfully support such states, they reserve such support for stateless societies like Rojava

>>3207912
Socialism destroys the genetic potential of a nation, in every real world application. Look at France, iq is plummeting. Here in the US high school graduation requirements are being relaxed even further to allow for stupider and stupider students to receive a diploma. On a global scale, countries receiving handouts are experiencing explosive population growth. Socialism always subsidizes the lowest form of life in a nation and allows it to flourish.

>>3206650
And what's wrong with that? It's not fair that the Rothschilds and Saudis and British royalty get to enjoy extreme loyalty for birth, rather than effort. Bringing them down to our level allows for a more free and equitable society.

>>3206671
And under capitalism, these differences in ability cannot be fairly accounted-for. The wealthiest people are never the most talented, but instead the inheritors of capitol. The athletes and inventors and artists who become rich from hard work and innovation are a small section of the lower elite, generally still beholden to the whims of far wealthier investors.

>>3207946
>this kind of evangelical attitude towards left wing ideologies.

left wing ideologies had a long historic tendency to dogmatism, marxist use the words "revisionist" or "reactionary" to any opposition. Reminds me the christians with the heretic persecution stuff.

>>3207973
Under socialism, if you don't work you don't eat. You must buy into society through your labor to enjoy its benefits.

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>>3207973
>chats shit about socialism
>all the examples used are of capitalist countries

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>>3207970

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>"They don't work because I said so"

Orly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af_GgELWrN0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_economy

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>>3207973
>Look at the countries that are absolutely not socialist as evidence for how socialism makes countries stupid

>>3207985
youre basically correct about that, Marxists especially tend to see their specific version of Marxism as being the correct perfect one and all others as wrong. this leads them to basically see themselves as merely the manifestation of inevitable historical processes, in turn leading them to thinking that all they do is 'necessary' for the process of history and therefore justified. Hence camps, mass starvation, secret police, etc,etc. Hannah Arendt goes into a lot more detail on this point.

Though some anarchists are of course dogmatic, implementing anarchism in the same dogmatic fashion as marxism is obviously an oxymoron. in my experience at least anarchists don't tend to view their specific version as 'the one true anarchism' and all other forms of anarchism as wrong (though some obviously are). essentially there's more ideological flexibility and less potential for falling into the hole of super dogmatic thinking leading to mass murder.

>>3207925
>We no longer live in a tribal society.
We are still tribal in mind though. If people lack the ability to secure their own existence within the state by normal means, they will create their own societal structures within the state, and that is not going to end well over time as the state itself will fall apart. And when that happens, power is with the many who will take what they believe they deserve.

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>>3206641
>disproving feels

>>3207990
No, that's under Capitalism.

Under Socialism, very few people eat. "They pretend to pay us; we pretend to work."

>>3207197
The land couldn't support the population. A million or so died, a million or so emigrated to other countries and built railroads and bootlegged liquor and eventually infested the white house.
Good thing the Brits didn't mollycoddle them like we do the Africans or Ireland would be even more third world than it is.

>>3208081
>muh malthus

if the British had banned the export of foodstuffs, as they had done during previous famines, less than half the number would have died. but because of free market attitudes this didnt happen.

>>3207973
>Look at France, iq is plummeting.
i demand proof