is france the good guy in history ?

>>3206546
Not really

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>>3206546

>>3206546
No it's the bad guy

>>3206546
They might be not the good guys, but for beeing such a powerful empire, they did suprizingly few evil deeds

>>3206546
> Stop Muslim invasions from Septimania
> Chase the Anglo back to their lairs
> Prevent Eternal Habsburg domination of Europe
> Gave Europe the Enlightenment
> Protect Europe against Imperial Germany
> Uses its colonial empire to keep on fighting against Nazi Germany, despite the risks of losing it
> Establishes Force de Frappe
> Cooperates with Germany to end Franco-german enmity
> Ushers in a period of relative peace together with Germany in Europe.

Literally filled with "good guy" tropes

>>3206546
A little bit of both. As with most things.

>>3206546
>gets so butthurt toward England that it has to conquer most of Europe to form a "continental system" precisely because it wants to cut off all trade to England to suffocate it
That sounds quite evil to me, instead of, you know, reconciling your differences with the Brits

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>>3206546
You got it.

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What happened?

>>3206546
There are no good guys in history, the french did plenty of bad shit just like everyone else.

>>3206652
>reconciling your differences with the Brits
Plutôt crever!

>>3206674
Name 1 (one) bad thing france has ever done.

>>3207030
Not dismantle the HRE sooner.

>>3207030
Napoleonic wars
Peninsular war
African colonies
Asian colonies
Treaty of Versailles
Algerian War
They removed so many cultures and languages over the years

>>3207049
Colonies weren't bad. see how these countries are doing so well today.
The Treaty of Versaille was not what France wanted, they wanted to continue the war and go full vae victis. This treaty was actually a gift of god for Germany.
Also
>They removed so many cultures and languages over the years
What?

>>3207089
>Colonies weren't bad
You serious? Locals were treated like shit and all the wealth was going to Europe.
>The Treaty of Versaille was not what France wanted, they wanted to continue the war and go full vae victis
This only makes them look worse.
>What?
Ever heard of bretons, occitans, corsicans, alsatians, normans or arpitans?

>>3207089
>What?
What we now consider French was originally just one variety of several regional languages in the north of the country. The south of France traditionally spoke an entirely different variety of Romance altogether, called Occitan. Over the years the French language overtook the other languages in the nation, and while they're still spoken they're greatly diminished and most are either endangered or on the verge of extinction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_France#List_of_languages

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>>3207178
>Ever heard of bretons, occitans, corsicans, alsatians, normans or arpitans?
Yeah I heard about that...
You can even register your kids in "regional schools".

>>3207214
I'm French and old enough to know this shit. Regional language are killed by urbanism and modern communications, not by the State. In very rural area a lot of people still speak "patois", and there are lots of efforts to keep the main regional languages alive.
And no, there never were panels saying "Forbidden to spit and speak Breton" in front of the bars.

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>>3207049
>defensive wars against ultra - reactionary enemies of france where Napoleon gave nations modern constitutions, gave people rights, liberated jews, allowed for religious freedom
>preemptive strike against a duplicitous ally that had previously considered betraying France, replacing an inbred retard with a man who spread enlightenment thought and ended the inquisition.
>French colonial policy was such that if a native learned French and was a productive member of society they would be given equal rights
>Same deal in Asia
>Lightly punitive treaty gimped by the British which the Germans never intended to, and didn't, pay. Rightfully demanded funds for France to rebuild from the destruction caused by the Germans.
>war to protect Pied-Noires from genocidal Islamist rebellion that turned Algeria from a beautiful resort area with booming businesses to a backwards shithole.
>Implying that centralizing regional culture to create an actual functioning state without separatism is bad

>>3207258
>Regional language are killed by urbanism and modern communications, not by the State
Are you actually denying that the French government imposed heavy French-only policies in their schools in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries? There's plenty of documentation about that. Sure urbanization and modern communications didn't help, but the state definitely had a hand in things.

>>3207264
>defensive
Might have started that way but it ended up with Napoleon trying to annex half of Europe.
>lets replace the local king with my brother and treat any protests with cruelty
>you have to learn a foreign language to be given equal rights in your own country
>Lightly punitive treaty
HA
>genocidal Islamist rebellion
The rebels were largely socialists
>Implying that centralizing regional culture to create an actual functioning state without separatism is bad
Yes. If you don't want seperatism then give them minority rights and autonomy.

>>3206652
France tried to reconcile itself with the British. In fact it was one of Napoleon's first acts as Consul. The peace of Amiens broke down because of British aggression.

>>3207323
>trying to annex half of europe
Nice one friend. A significant portion of the territorial annexations, Catalonia, Illyria, Holland, Hanseatic cities were to enforce the continental blockade and destroy smugglers. The fact that you even stated this reveals how little you know about the subject aside from hundreds of years old British propaganda.
>armed insurrection and rebellion is protest
How delusional do you have to be to believe this? They planned to forcefully remove Joseph and his reforms and return spain to the medieval period.
>your own country
Before France there were no real countries, only backwards local tribes
>The rebels were largely socialist
That doesn't make it any better. They were still hell bent on annihilation of the Pied-Noires.
>HA
The fact that Germany even existed with only minor territorial losses, mostly underdeveloped polish territories, was quite surprising considering the amount of destruction they caused in the Great War.
>The way to deal with separatism is to aquiesce to their demands and let them be separate
Now this is just stupid.

>>3206652
>instead of, you know, reconciling your differences with the Brits

Pretty sure Brits were the ones who wouldnt reconciliate
Btw, France didnt conquer Europe for the Continental System
It conquered Europe in self-defense against aggressive coalition Britain kept mouting against them
And since Britain was the source of the problem, Napoleon then used his conquests in an attempt to take the British snake down so peace could finally be achieved

>>3207049
>Napoleonic wars

Hmmmmm

>Matters reached a diplomatic crisis point when the British rejected the idea of mediation by Tsar Alexander, and instead on 10 May ordered Whitworth to withdraw from Paris if the French did not accede to their demands in 36 hours.[42]
>Last minute attempts at negotiation by Talleyrand failed, and Whitworth left France on 13 May. Britain declared war on France on 18 May, thus starting the Napoleonic Wars that would rage in Europe for the following 12 years.[43]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Amiens#Breakdown

>>3207364
>muh british propaganda
Why do you think he made himself an emperor? He was a megalomaniac who wanted to revive the roman empire.
>return spain to the medieval period
Weird how that didn't happen once they won.
>can't be called country
This doesn't mean France is their country.
>They were still hell bent on annihilation of the Pied-Noires
and France was hellbent on denying the algerians right of selfdetermination.
>Germany got off easy
Territory is not everything, Germany was given huge debts instead and the germans suffered in WW1 just like everyone else thanks to the british blockade.
>Now this is just stupid.
It worked for Switzerland, Finland, India and countless others.

Austria was the good guy of history

>>3207456
>Why do you think he made himself an emperor? He was a megalomaniac who wanted to revive the roman empire.
Nothing wrong here.
>Weird how that didn't happen once they won.
The new king of spain what a big retard that cause the complete stagnation of spain.
>This doesn't mean France is their country.
France is a nation build on citenzenship. Fuck off with your >muh tribe
>and France was hellbent on denying the algerians right of selfdetermination.
Like everyone else, or the soviet and the american weren't some kind of imperialist?
>Territory is not everything, Germany was given huge debts instead and the germans suffered in WW1 just like everyone else thanks to the british blockade.
Maybe next time they will try to not invade neutral country. Nor country that actively try to stop war like france?

>>3207089
They eat dirt in Haiti. Literal dirt cakes.

>>3207531
>Nothing wrong here.
It's about as wrong as you can get.
>France is a nation build on citenzenship
citizenship=/=nationality
>Like everyone else, or the soviet and the american weren't some kind of imperialist?
It's not justified just because everyone else are doing it.
>Nor country that actively try to stop war like france?
That's a lie. France was backing Russia in their defence of Serbia and therefore only helped heat things up. The attack on France was preemptive.

>>3207531
>FUCKING G*RMANS INVADED POOR NEUTRAL BELGIUM
>*Invades neutral Greece*
>*Invades neutral Persia*
>*Invades neutral Albania*

>English rebels execute the king
>no one gives two shits
>French rebels execute the king
>HOLY SHIT GAS THE FRENCH

>>3207523
t. Franz Habsburg McKarling

>>3206546
'no'
t. Flemish

>>3206652
Reconciling your differences with evil is generally considered a bad thing to do.

>>3207531
>France is a nation build on citenzenship
>France started in 1789


Neck yourself and die painfully

t. French

>>3207030
May of 1968
ius soli

>>3207456
>Why did he make himself emperor
An attempt to establish the legitimacy of France to the other European powers so she may remain in peace. Also it won him the support of everyone except the ultra-royalists while still managing to please most republicans. But the most important reason was to establish a succession so people would think assassinating him would be pointless after the infernal machine and other attempts on his life. In fact many of his deputies and supporters pushed him to it.

>>3207323
t. catalufo o vASCO

>>3206546
'non'

Fuck France.

>>3207755
Fuck you

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>>3206565
>They work for the noble kin...the masked knights
>BRITAIN?!

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>>3206594
France has been the enemy of Germany, the Netherlands and the Italian states for centuries. France worked together with Poland to obtain the HRE states. And Germany was called imperialist when the Kaiserreich tried to get a little bit back what Germany lost to France.

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>No one's talking about that one time they out numbered the mexicans in combat, yet they failed against some mestizos with a cannon and some natives with spears and primitive leather shields in the battlefield
>No one's talking about that one time France started a war with the Mexicans over some dude with a bakery

>Still thinking they're the good guys
atleast Maximiliano de Habsburgo was a based emperor

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>>3207993
France ALWAYS EXTENTED FROM THE RHINE TO THE LOIRE, You stole French territory and Germanicized the French there

>Moselle Romance is an extinct Romance language that developed after the fall of the Roman Empire along the Moselle river in modern-day Germany, near the border with France. Despite heavy Germanic influence, it persisted in isolated pockets until the 11th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moselle_Romance


Pic related is one your fatasy btw

>>3206546
Especially when the Turks invaded Europe and France refused to send help.

If they weren't already mixed to death, one should nuke them.

>>3208027
>France ALWAYS EXTENTED FROM THE RHINE TO THE LOIRE, You stole French territory and Germanicized the French there
This delusion lmao

>>3207993
>>3208027
Charlemagne, guys, not Hitler and Napoleon, okay?

>>3208216
/his/ has unironically turned me into a Germanboo and a Francophobe.

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>>3208027
>french history

>>3207993
Well the French might be bad, but what about the FUCKING BRITS

The British are literally the most evil that have ever existed in history

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>>3208216
>>3208240
>>3208268
>implying

The Rhine belong to us

>>3208281
And who gave trouble to the brits so many times?

>>3208316
>>3208027
1000 years have past and it was never really french anyway.

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>>3206546
This is a pretty common first-level contrarian opinion for people raised in an angloboo historical culture.
The frogs get undue sympathy because of the way they JUSTed themselves out of European Hegemony a few times (Louis XIV, Nap, Nap III) and often punch under their weight in great power politics (100 years war, early-mid 17th century, WWII).
I'd say they're more good than bad, but certainly no saints. The Albigensian Crusade was pretty terrible, they allied with the ottomans, autistically ravaged the Palatinate, chimped out in the Revolution, and invaded Mexico for no good reason.

>>3206594
>protect europe from imperial germany
Nice bait

>>3206546
No. How they dealt with Haiti and Algeria was pretty fucked up

>>3208316
>some obscure regions near the Rhine spoke a Romance dialect at some point
>therefore it belongs to France
That's not how it works anon.

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>>3206565
Spain?

>>3208240
So, now we all have to behave like a fucking Dutchman?

>>3208027
>along the Moselle river
>Moselle
That sure is a weird way to spell Rhine.

>>3208471
Yes it was, and the people there are still French although brainwashed into thinking that they're Germans
>>3208490
>some obscure regions

Treves is one of the biggest city in Germany

>>3206652
>gets so butthurt toward England that it has to conquer most of Europe
This started as European + English butthurt towards France, Johnny.

>instead of, you know, reconciling your differences with the Brits
lol
the english would have sooner sacrificed all of europe

>>3208587
Ah yes, the 67th largest German city by population
Either way, because some region spoke X dialect at some point in time it belongs to Y is fucking retarded.
Trying to claim something as "French" before France was even created or never was part of France in the first place is even more fucking stupid
why am i even bothering ffs, get your head out of your arse

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>>3206546

>>3208706
>France didn't exist in the 11th century and before

t. deluded german

>>3208706
Well, german and a lot of retard have claim based on such stupid pretend.
At least french give the true, we want a border easy to defend.

What is Sankara and Burkina Faso?
Algeria as well
France is just another former imperial Neo-Colonial power. Anyone who's a Ouiaboo deserves to be shot

>>3208763
>or never was part of France in the first place
nice reading skills

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>>3206652
The British didn't want to reconcile early on. The British were determined to crush the revolution since they were afraid something like Cromwell would affect them again. Get out Anglo

>>3208010
The Mexican soldier is a resilient one. The bakery issue was just an excuse to expand the sphere of influence. Maximilian was surprisingly good for a H*bsburg

>>3208706
>Either way, because some region spoke X dialect at some point in time it belongs to Y is fucking retarded.
Tell that to the German, it was them who couldn't stop making war to annex Alsace/Lorraine because they spoke a germanic dialect.

>>3208587
They were moselle-romance and before that they were celts, they were never french.

>>3208587
>Treves is one of the biggest city in Germany
*Trier
Nobody knows what you mean if you use the french names.
The city only has 100k+, there are like 20 larger cities in Germany.

>>3208849
I'm not German. Also the french took it in the 17th and 18th century from the HRE, so it wasn't completely unjustified
>inb4 the HRE has nothing to do with Germany
>inb4 only France has the right to conquer land from others

>>3208873
it's the 67th largest
one of the biggest German cities for sure

>>3207312
>Are you actually denying that the French government imposed heavy French-only policies in their schools
No, I deny that the government tried to remove regional cultures and languages. Of course French-only policies were imposed in the schools, that's the cement of the nation, and the basics in every decent country.

>>3207587
>France was backing Russia in their defence of Serbia and therefore only helped heat things up. The attack on France was preemptive.
Common misconception. No one cared about Serbia, what do you think seriously. An entire generation was raised in a tremendous hate of Germany after 1871. What really really mattered for millions of Frenchmen and especially militaries (a mighty caste at that time) was the day when Alsace and Lorraine would be retaken.
The assassination of François-Ferdinand was just the slightiest excuse awaited.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuWj4BzV-TY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlogKJhiGOQ
This song is still sung nowadays, imagine how much important it was, to the point it has been printed in the military traditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLxsWFeYAi0

>>3209374
>I deny that the government tried to remove regional cultures and languages.
>Of course French-only policies were imposed in the schools
Pick one.
>An entire generation was raised in a tremendous hate of Germany after 1871. What really really mattered for millions of Frenchmen and especially militaries (a mighty caste at that time) was the day when Alsace and Lorraine would be retaken.
And therefore you can't say France tried to stop the war.

>>3207030

Making Haiti pay indemnities.

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>creates the modern world

Also daily reminder Napoleon did nothing morally wrong.

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>>3206546
Literally the kike nation history.

>Invade Italy just because
>Invade all of Europe just because
>Invade Egypt because... uh... Brits might take it
>Literally annex Algeria because the last remaining Barbary pirates did some shit
>Invades Mexico over a cake
>Invades Mexico again over debts
>Threaten to invade Haiti over some cash, even though they had nothing to do with France for 3 decades, leaving them broke for 100 years
>Invade Vietnam just because
>Use your master kikery to gain some concessions in China
>Tried to invade Prussia over a letter, only to get their shit promplty kicked in
>Fuck up Syria, leaving the region fucked for decades to come
>Do nothing in most of the African colonies except Senegal, just use blacks as cannon fodder
>Use your influence and kike the now-independent countries that you did nothing in, in exchange for resources, while still doing nothing (other than providing a few mercenaries)
>Prop up shitheads like Bokassa until they start getting even too crazy for you

And that's just the icing on this delicious cake.

>>3211776
Most kike nation in history*

>>3207622
England was an irrelevant backwater in Charles I's time. France was a world power so it's understandable why the monarchs flipped their shit.

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>>3207030
>Having Haiti in eternal debt just because Haitians didn't want to be slaves
>Killed Thomas Sankara
>got the eternal yankee to get rid off Gaddafi
>elected Macron

>>3211776
t. Eternal Anglo, Kike of Kikes

>>3211700
That map is so fucking retarded, please stop posting it

>>3207030
Alliance with the Ottomans and warring enemies of the Otromans in general. Reason of state DOESN'T justify it, see what happens if you go to a court and tell them you collaborated with ISIS because it benefited you.

>>3211919
Lol sorry I'm not an Anglo. Go to bed, angsty frog.

Is there a single country in the world that hasn't done something bad?

>>3206546
I am somewhat sympathetic to the French because of my deep-seated hatred of the British but the French are still pretty shitty.

>>3209374
It's funny how France pretended to be the liberator of Alsace-Lorraine, but then genocided their culture afterwards. I must admit that France did that very well and I guess even the Nazi's would have been jealous of that.

>>3212004
sunny San Marino?

>>3212112
>offshore accounts full of illegal money.

>>3212004
England, everything they did was for the greater good.

>>3212201
This, fellow Anglo.

>>3211920
It's actually pretty accurate, although it should be "countries that exists because of France's actions" rather than "created by France"

>>3208790
>What is Sankara
>France is just another former imperial Neo-Colonial power

Lmao go back to fucking /leftypol/ faggot.

>>3207030
Crimean War

>>3206546
No, there are no good guys in history. Only winners and losers.

>>3212004
Irland, Iceland, Barbados, Bahamas, Vanuatu etc etc

>>3212110
Alsatians are Celts anyway and should speak a Gallo-Romance like their ancestors did

Germans are merely invaders and should push back to the rhine

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>>3206546
no, the USA is

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>>3207030
Lose the napoleonic wars

Perfidious Albion and their reactionary allies had their way with Europe for the rest of the century, not to mention we had to endure german autism reaching its peak in the beginning of the 20th century

>>3207049
>Napoleonic wars
All wars of the coalition were started by others. France was the victim.

>>3207666
Fuck off, you don't deserve your own nation. Give Walloon to France and we will take Flanders.

T. Dutch

>>3213101
>France was the victim.
*France started as the victim.

>>3213140
>Get attacked
>Defeat attackers
>Make peace treaty
>Attacker breaks treaty


What are you supposed to do eh? Just ignore them stealing your clay?

>>3212672
>Making sure Russia has no influence in the mediterranean

Either you don't understand the Crimean war, or you are a Ruskie.

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>>3213164
How about not trying to annex half of Europe? If you treat your enemies harshly then you should not be surprised that they want revenge.

>>3213193
The enemies were already out for revenge from the start. They were not treated harshly at all. Austria was beaten 4 times before France destroyed the HRE. FOUR FUCKING TIMES.

The Dutch did not mind their king, the Poles were happy with their regained independence and most Germans were quite content as well in the beginning.

>>3213193
>People attack you
>You beat them
>Take their clay so they are weaker when they try it again.

France did nothing wrong.

>>3213219
why are the french crying about ww2 germany then

>>3208873
It's Trewir la'. Old Polish city, just like Ratyzbona, Kolonia, Brema, Celowiec, Solnogród and Kamienica S*ska

>>3213219
That's literally the reasoning that started World War Two. Except the Germans did a much better job the second time, so it apparently didn't work.

>>3213205
>The Dutch did not mind their king
Napoleon did though which is why he had his brother deposed and the country annexed.
>the Poles were happy with their regained independence
The only good napoleonic change.
>most Germans were quite content as well
No they were not. This was like the later german occupations of France.

>>3213176
it's alright when Britain does it though

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>>3206546
There are no good countries in history, but there is one bad one. And that country is Australia.

>>3213619

Get in here if you require proof.

>>3213120
>runs like a little bitch when the french army arrives
>waah waah flanders belongs to us
kys

>>3212201
I have to be honest and agree with this.

t. Scotsman

>>3213853
This is the highest level of cuckoldry. Mel Gibson would be disappointed.

>>3213047
>Ireland
The Troubles.
The rest are too small to do something bad.

Allying with the Turks and emptying an entire city so Muslims can use it as a base to enslave other Christians is about as repulsive as one can get.