Can we agree that for all their shortcomings, they managed to

>>3196378
They absolutely did, there isn't even a real argument against it at this point.

Hulking majority of Russian and Chinese populations lived in utterly dogshit conditions before Reds rocketed the HDI to high heavens compared to what it was, but bleeding heart pretend-empathy cunts can't accept that there is just no way to bring illiterate agrarian shitholes up to the living standard of countries that literally ruled the world, while those countries threw long under your feet every step of the way, in less than a century is a complete pipe dream.

>>3196435

shut up faggot, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan shows what exactly a liberal oriented economy can do for the people of their lands despite devestation.

If China had adopted that model it would have been as advanced as now back in 1980/1990. And through sheer economies of scale would be the most dominant economic power in the world at this point.

>>3196443
>South Korea, Japan and Taiwan
>all fucking propped up by Infinite Printing Works TM, which is currently going up in fucking smoke BTW, congratulations

>>3196378
this is implying that the progress wouldn't have happened without them. russia was on it's way to becoming a fully fledged democracy before the bolsheviks destroyed the provisional government and sun yat-sen had been campaigning himself for a united democratic china and might have succeeded if he lived longer.

Mao brought 30 years of economic stagnation and the cultural revolution.

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The "shittiness" of the agrarian peasant lifestyle is way overblown imho. Being preoccupied with the capitalist notion of "progress" is the very cancer communists are supposed to be fighting.

>>3196443
south korea, taiwan, and japan are also 52x smaller than china, combined. it's unfair to compare such small countries to such a big one.
plus, all of those countries had a shit ton of money pumped into them by the us and other western countries, whereas china did not enjoy those benefits

>>3196586
>plus, all of those countries had a shit ton of money pumped into them by the us and other western countries
Yea, commie, that's how capitalism works.

>>3196378

>DUDE AT LEAST THEY MODERNIZED THE COUNTRIES!

This isnt really something to brag about when every other country, including evil capitalist ones, were able to do it without millions upon millions of people dying

Also, Mao didnt modernize shit and was a huge fuckup. You have to be on another level of retarded to actually think Mao was a good leader in any way what so ever

>>3196676
>when every other country,
every other country? Just look at Africa

>>3196567
right, atrocities like "making people have fucking shoes in stead of foot wraps" and "not live in holes in the ground" and "breaking atom and flying to space" are just essence of capitalism

>>3196684

you mean all those countries that tried communism in the 60s and 70s? yeah, take a good long fucking look at them

>>3196703
the thread is not about communism vs capitalism
it's about how Stalin and Mao brought modern civilization to Russian and Chinese people

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>>3196708

>try to move the goal post when your point gets BTFO
>try to steer it back to the original point once your goal post moving gets BTFO as well

>>3196718
i am not entierly sure what you are talking about
my point was during the whole dicussion how mao and stalin civilized the countries.
you were the only one who turned this into a communism vs capitalism discussion

>>3196730

No I didnt, I disproved your point head on. If you want to do this tired act of playing with semantics and shitpost your thread into oblivion then go for it.

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>>3196693
Shoes are overrated and are for city people. Progress is a false god.

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>>3196708
>how Stalin and Mao brought modern civilization to Russian and Chinese people

Well forced, collectivization of land and fast industrialization take their toll in blood, I guess you can justify this with >Muh life standard rise argument.

>>3196802
>implying less people would have died without the industrialization process

>>3196836
>see? our system killed almost less people than those greedy bourgeois, this is a trait of progress.

>>3196378
They were pretty based, they liberated their countries from tyrant monarchs and warlords.

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>>3196757

well said.

>>3196378
Well any faction would be manage it too. When are at rock button you can only go up.

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>>3196757
Based review brah

>>3196959
>Well any faction would be manage it too. When are at rock button you can only go up.
Wrong
See Africa

>>3196757
Tell that to the starving peasants. Commoners care more about the bread on their plates, rather than casting magic missiles.

>>3196999
>starving peasants
Stalin and Mao starved more pesants than anyone else in history.

>>3196999
>implying peasants weren't generally well fed and content

>>3196684
>Comparing east Asia country with Africa

>>3197036
why not?

>>3196676

>This isnt really something to brag about when every other country, including evil capitalist ones, were able to do it without millions upon millions of people dying

I'm not a communist, but millions of people did die in the process of modernising Europe, and it took hundreds of years aimlessly proceeding in a haphazard way until there was something perceived as modernity.

>>3197003
fucking love Cold War diatribes, give me more please
If Stalin killed half the people he supposedly did, Russia wouldn't have people in it right now.

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>>3197053
So this is true?

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>>3197061
Actually I like Uncle Joe, he managed to kill more lefties, faggots and slavs than hitler and other fascists could ever dreamt. DO IT AGAIN STEEL MAN.

>>3197061
Name anyone who starved more peasants than Mao and Stalin.

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>>3197132
In mao's case, This not was intentional.

>>3197167
Intent is literally irrelevant.

>>3197177
it's not
thats why we differ between murder and manslaughter

>>3197187
It is, and laws don't change shit. A dead person is a dead person, and Mao starved the most peasants in recorded history.

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>>3197187
Mao was stupid incompetent leader who lead their fanatic bunch of revolutionaries in a war with their own people. he was a democide.

>>3197205
so the bigger the country, the more evil the leader, because if he makes mistakes more people die?

>>3197216
he might have been stupid, but he was much smarter than the average chinese person. Force was necessary to supress reactionary movements and turn china into modern civilization

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>Implying it was Mao

>>3197237
>China
>modern civilization
Back to your rice paddock Zhang

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>>3197237
>Force was necessary to supress reactionary movements

Like those reactionary birds? communists likes to call reactionary everything who oppose them, even their own fellows proles.

>bring modern civilization to Chinese and Russian people
You mean Sun Yat-sen and Pyotr Stolypin.

They would have developed faster if they had liberal capitalist economies, and governments that didn't antagonize the West and get them cut off from trade and global finances.

China was on par with the West until the Qing shit the bed in the 19th century. Then the entire first half of the 20th century was civil war and fighting off the japanese.

Imperial Russia wasn't that far behind. At least not as bad as the Ottomans were. WW1 would have ended before the Whites could get back into the war. A white russian government would have had huge grain export profits to work with in modernization. Outside western liberal influences would have flooded in and speed things up.

>>3197268
>communists likes to call reactionary everything who oppose them, even their own fellows proles.
you think proles cant be reactionaires?

>>3197284
>They would have developed faster if they had liberal capitalist economies, and governments that didn't antagonize the West and get them cut off from trade and global finances.
India did just that, and yet they are at least a decade behind china

>>3197286
>see? you can't trust in everyone comrade, purge yourself.

>>3197304
india government at every level functions by graft and corruption. the only ones holding them back are themselves.

>>3196554
>this is implying that the progress wouldn't have happened without them.
This quite frankly. I'm not sure why you assume that it needs the big leader for development.

>>3197304
Deng's reforms were a little over a decade before India's liberal economic reforms. Also China has a better environment for development.

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>>3197286
Fortunately they had the Cheka/redguards to keep them in line, eh?

>>3197349
that's why developping countries need a strong authoritarian leaders, otherwise they will drown in corruption.
I think it is really arrogant how western countries blame the likes of china or russia for human right violations, totally ignoring that same violations happend in western countries as those were still developing

>>3197378
>I think it is really arrogant how lefties blame the likes of USA or Europe for human right violations, totally ignoring that same violations happend in socialists countries as those were still developing.

>>3197399
I think you are assuming i am left-wing, which is wrong, friend.
I just believe that developing countries need a strong leader, no matter if left or right