What if Poland-Lithuania survived and industralized?

It would be extremely powerful.

>>3190668
For who?

>>3190659
How would the do it? Even if it survived, it would probably be still agricultural. King must had done something with nobility, to either allow normal market economy, or start state based industrialization program.

>>3190683
The same way other countries did it, fag.

>>3190672
For Kr*uts

>>3190688
But in Poland, nobility was pushing laws to enforce serfdom, and constrict burglars. There were much worse conditions for industrialization, then in rest of Europe.

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I wish Novogorod stayed their vassal. Instead it was demolished by M*scovy

>if

you dont understand history, theres no if, it didnt industrialize because it couldnt, the commonwealth was brough to life by their nobility, which nobility is the surest roadblock of modernization and industrialization

>>3190668
Krauts are big guys.

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>>3190693
In cities such as Gdańsk, Kraków or Królewiec nobility had close to no power. Add to that the fact that Gdańsk had special privileges itself and that Königsberg was part of Duchy of Prussia so both these cities would be pretty unrestricted. The industrailization would most likely spread like wildfire throughout the coast, the more inland part of Poland-Lithuania would be tricky, though - especially the scarcely populated Ukraine where nobles held the most power.

>>3190742
Ok, but if we want Prussia to be in Polish sphere of influence, we have to set point of divergence at least before 1654.

>>3190751
ill just fabricate claims and invade them with my spacemarines

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>>3190751
After the Deluge the situation was rather irreversible anyway. There's almost no chance of strong Commonwealth after the Swedish invasion, unless some actually great king ascended the throne.

In the Rzeczpospolita cities were mainly seen as places were scum like thieves, criminals, Jews and heretics lived. The countryside was always idealised by the nobility (read up about sarmatism) - this would be a great obstacle to industrialisation.

>>3191271
>Rzeczpospolita cities were mainly seen as places were scum like thieves, criminals, Jews and heretics lived.
Criminals lived in Ukraine. That's how Cossacks were born.

>>3191271
>Nobility lives in countryside and don't give a shit about cities.
Sounds like easy way for industrialization.

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>>3190659
In the first place, PLC would need deep reforms long before it fallen. In overall, nobility should had given up its influences for the king, bring back dynastical monarchy etc

After that, XVIII century Poland should had ally with Sweden during Northern War and stop Russian road to power. Smash Prussia after securing the eastern border.
After such scenario Poland would look similar to Austro-Hungary. Vast and powerful, but containing many nationalities that would prefer to separate themselves

>>3190693
>constrict burglars

Nothing wrong with fighting theft.

>>3190751
The latest relevant point of divergence would be 1618, when Albrecht Friedrich died, or otherwise earlier in the mentally ill man's reign (e.g. don't approve Georg Friedrich the Elder as regent). The original arrangement was that if the line of Albrecht (Albrecht Friedrich's father) dies out, the Duchy of Prussia becomes part of the Polish crown, and they've had the power and legitimacy to do it.

Instead for the sake of political expediency the King of Poland allowed the elector of Brandenburg to take the Duchy of Prussia towards which he had no legal claim so long as he remained a loyal vassal, creating Brandenburg-Prussia which would stab the Commonwealth in the back less than forty years later and split away Prussia for good.

tl;dr: One of the many, many, MANY cock-ups courtesy of Sigismund III of Poland, the longest-ruling and most ruinous of Poland-Lithuanias elected kings.

>>3192077
>Vast and powerful, but containing many nationalities that would prefer to separate themselves
No way. Imagine how differently the 19th century would look if Poles actually had a way to polonize their lands.
Also the disappearance of the commonwealth is what triggered all those nationalities like Ukrainian or Lithuanian to exist in the first place.
It could have been like in Britain - Lithuania would be considered a nationality but it's like Scoland to England - same thing pretty much

>>3192482
>is what triggered all those nationalities like Ukrainian or Lithuanian to exist in the first place.
t. same person
"exist" is a wrong word, more like expose themselves

>>3192482
But it pretty much was like that.
It was more like United States or modern Germany.

>Where you're from? From Ukraine, Poland. From Lithuania, Poland.
Ukraine, Lithuania, Baltic region would be like states.

Perfect cuntry desu.

>>3190691
nice

>>3190659
Did they really go that deep into Russia?

>>3194529
for a couple decades

>>3196205
>>3194529
The furthest extent was between the truce of Deulino (1618) and the truce of Andrusovo (1667).

Weren't they like 40% Jewish at their peak? They'd probably become an even more evil version of israel

>>3196647
>40% jewish
There was probably a much larger jewish population in it then comparred to other countries but 40% is just abusrd.

>>3190668
this begs the question...was getting partitioned part of their plan?

>>3196661
No, but it was part of the other 3 greats powers.

>>3196673
2*
Russia never wanted to take part in the partition

>>3196673
right, but the flight plan lists only one of them. how do we resolve thus conundrum?

>>3196647
It was around 8% at peak right before the partitions.

The Jewish population explosion on the Polish territories happened in the 19th century.

>>3196846
>>3196647
But you have to notice that some cities were 50% Jewish but the country was less urbanized than most of Europe. Jews lived mostly in cities and there was no Jewish nobility.

>>3190659
>industrialized
>without ressources
>with a small population
>bordered by real superpowers
>inhabitaed by literal human waste

It'd be no stronger than Italy.

>>3196935
This is /his/ not stormfront.org.

>>3196979
>wah wah muh stormfags
Grow up.

>>3196988
>makes idiotic post with racist remarks
>grow up
?

>>3190659
>What if Poland-Lithuania survived and industralized?
>industralized

violent socialist revolution into communism or foreign intervention and partitions

>>3196935
Someone seems upset.

>>3196701
This.
Russia fucked up. Poland was their vassal at that time, and they just allowed for Austrian and Prussian landgrabs.

>>3196728
Perhaps they're wondering why you'd partition a kingdom before endlessly enduring nationalist revolts.

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>>3196935
This

>>3196928
>no Jewish nobility
This is wrong many prominent Jews were bestowed titles.

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>>3199645
What's this half-assed attempt on editing map? At least change colours to proper ones.

>>3199645
t. self hating polish trash straight from karachan.

>>3199651
name a few

Nothing