Vercingetorix and other heroes

The Noble Savage.

Romanticized as freedom fighters against terrible, heartless conquerors. Common theme is that they are spiritual, peaceful people who are close to the earth, a sort of primitive hippie, against the materialistic Romans.

Everyone seems to forget that the Gauls sacked Rome several times, pillaging, murdering and raping. They got what they deserved, and better really. While they just smashed, Rome built.

>>3177418
its so funny how you can tell who just finished watching Historia Civilis' most recent video

>>3178336
Pretty sure several of the Gaulic tribes subgugated if not exterminated by Caesar's forces were actually already established allies if not protectorates or vassals of Rome. One of the big issues a lot of the Roman senate and Caesar's contemporaries had with his invasion was he was indiscriminately targeting all Gauls rather then purely hostile ones.

>>3178346
>>3178346
Watching it right now, but no, I was actually re watching Rome and it came to my attention that the only "anti Roman" hero I know about is Vercingetorix and of course the Gauls as a whole. Of course, there is also that British woman who got raped or something, but the point is, I never see anywhere other of those "heroes" being depicted or talked about.

>>3178779
t. Cato the Younger

>>3178336

"Vae Victis" comes from gauls sacking Rome

He was the only person to win a battle against Caesar so he is righhtly famous. Gauls weren't raw meat eating savages but were actually more technologically advanced than any other Northern Europeans. He unified the various tribes and came very close to final victory.

Seems like an obvious candidate for national hero of France. In any case he was a greater leader than other romanticized leaders like Caratacus or Arminius.

>>3178779
Vercingetorix war was an uprising. If Caesar was killing "allies" he was killing traitors.

>>3178336
Not to mention that Vercingetorix didn't give a fucking shit about the common folk. When Caesar besieged him in Alesia he just expulsed all the civilians from the city, women and children expulsed, throwing them to roman slavery or death. This is not how a hero of the people acts, this is the work of an opportunistic warlord.

>>3180436
He did that because he wanted to get them to safety you big dummy, he thought the Romans would let them go

>>3180437
>he thought the Romans would let them go

If he believed the romans to be so nice, why did he rebel against them? I'm just saying he wasn't a hero but you're calling him retard. Ancient and roman warfare didn't work like that and he knew it. Accept the facts, he didn't give a shit about Caesar letting them go or not. He didn't give a shit about gauls, at most he cared about his arvernii and probably just about his aristocratic fellas.

Maybe war is based more on practical reality than on sentiment idk

>>3180449
Well what do you think is more likely

He turned to his army and was like "haha fuck you I'm going to send all your families to die"

or

He turned to his army and was like "okay we men are probably screwed but at least we can save our wives and children"

>>3180460
>we are screwed so let's send the women and children outside the fortifications while we wait here

>>3180427
>this is what coqaboos actually believe

>>3180396
Mithridates is a good one. The last great Greek ruler.

>>3180396
Read about Viriatus. The only one of those romantic heroes that actually wasn't defeated but assasinated. Claimed by both portuguese and spanish nationalism since lusitanians lived in both nations.

>>3180460
What he said is completely irrelevant. Not to mention that half of his army didn't care either. How many alessians were part of his army?

>>3180459
A retarded uprising against a superior foe that has already defeated and dominated you is not practical, tho. It's the very definition of sentimentalism. Caesar literally made gaul elitemen senators. Vercingetorix didn't choose wisely.

>>3180541
>greek

Hellenic would be better. He was a fucking persian, his name isn't precisely greek.

>>3180573
Mirthidates was mixed Persian and Greek.

>>3178336
>fpbp

>>3180611
Well of course, since his mother was a seleucid princess. But his ideology was full on achaemenid revivalism, he was an iranian-style King of Kings, not a diadochi. He did see the benefits of patronizing greek culture and participating in the hellenistic ethos, though. But so did the Parthians.

Hellenes fear the senatorial warrior

>>3180427
>Seems like an obvious candidate for national hero of France
except that he wasn't french so no

>Antiochus III "the great"
>mithridates VI "the great"
>tigranes II "the great"
>Phillip V "beloved of the hellenes"
Will gre*ks ever learn?

THERE CAN BE NO PEACE
NO PEACE WITH ROMANS

>>3178336
>MUH TROPES
>ROMUNS DINDU NUFFIN

The sacking of Rome was done by the Senones, a northern Italian and completely unrelated group to the central Gaulish Arverni confederation headed by Vercingetorix, done hundreds of years before Caesar entered Gaul. None of the Gauls alive during that time had anything to do with the sacking of Rome. Moreover the Senones were provoked when Roman ambassadors (notorious for being belligerent assholes and deliberately sabotaging negotiations to establish pretenses for wars of conquest) stabbed a Senone chief to death, egregiously violating the rule of ambassadorial neutrality. Instead of punishing to Fabian ambassador as the Senones requested, they instead honored the murderers with tribune powers and consulship. This is what provoked the Senone to sack Rome, not wild bloodlust and retard strength.

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>>3177418
Well, the biggest resistance hero against ROme was of course a germanic warrior, Arminius or in his native language Ermanamer.
He did so much good for us!

>>3180689

autism

>>3177418
>>3177418
A true hero clearly, but it can definitively argued that the true heart of the Gallic resistance was actually a small Gaulish village in Armorica.

>>3180729
*dies like a bitch far from home*

>>3180729

Roman equite*

>>3180746
This.

Asterix >>> Vercingetorishit

>>3180732
But it's true. French people that claim Vercingetorix are LARPing

>>3180729
>resistance
>educated by Rome
>Rome wanted to bring civilization to that hell hole called Germania
>chimps out and betrays his benefactors

Arminius a shit tbhfamsmh

>>3180729
>have a traitor as a national hero
>complain when other countries "betray" you
German hypocrisy never ceases to amaze

French people claiming a symbol from their own past are wrong? Why because they are one hundred percent Frankish, is that it? Sperging about this is as retarded as the really old Napoleon not French meme. Trained in French military academies from age nine, still can't be claimed by French.

Get fucked and accept the fact that Vercingetorix was better than everyone else's token resisting Rome figure.

>>3181226
>he lost a little better than the others!
Guess that's an achievement for French people

>>3180396
Her name was Boudicca, you disrespectful fool.

France has a long history and plenty of national heroes. With the Romantic movement and a reclamation of figures from antiquity, you could do a lot worse than to pick the only man to defeat Caesar in battle. In fact, everyone else does!

>>3178336
BTFO

>>3177418
I too watch Historia Civilis

>>3181432
I don't. Is it good?

>>3181416
Yeah, the poster you're replying to did get BTFO pretty hard.

>>3178779
Seriously? Just vercingetorix? Not hannibal? Antiochus? Any of the many parthian and sassanian kings? Boudicca? You're somehow less informed Tham the average /his/ shitposter

>>3181781
Sorry meant to quote >>3180396

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>>3180729
WELGOME TO MY WALD VARUS :--DD VOLLOW ME :-DDD

t. HERMANN

>>3181781
Hannibal doesn't count, the Phoenicians were an equal force against Rome

>>3177418
>has the high ground
>numerically superior force
>amazing cavalry, being a gaul
>still looses to Romans
And why do franks love him again? Verc should have won in this fucking 3 to 1 fight, but being a tribal nigger he ley himself get anally raped by the g*rmanic auxillary cavalry of all fucking things.

>>3180732
Gauls are about as french as italians are latin.

>>3181864
The French are less Gaulish than Italians are Latin due to being WOPPED and FRANKED, in that order.

>>3180729

>Literally a muh heritage American of ancient times killing the civillized people because muh heritage

>>3182187
The French were also Greeked, Goth'd and Burgundied

It's really obvious. Token rebellions of minor significance, like Boudicca, Zenobia, Decebalus, or whatever are not the same as a single leader uniting the majority of a formerly disunited and tribalistic nation.
It's a much greater achievement than helping Julian the Apostate meet his self inflicted end, and nobody would seriously try to claim Hannibal because it would be a giant Koch curve.

>>3182225
Yes I felt including the minor ones would be going overboard. Don't forget the Berber pirates who went as far inland as the Alps.

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>>3177418
>resistance against the Roman Machine.

>>3180396
Ambiorix and Julius Civilis are two that I know of.

>>3180573
He was 1/16 Persian

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>>3182207
>stubid uncibilized barbarians wond led us gonger them :-DDD

>>3180729
>destroy two legions in a cowardly ambush
>get utterly destroyed when romans come back and you can't betray them again
Contrary to popular belief, Rome could have annexed Germania after Germanicus' campaign but didn't because of internal politics

>>3180396
Arminius, the guy who orchestrated the teutoburg forest ambush became idolized through german nationalism, they began calling him Hermann (his germanic name)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermannsdenkmal

Enough of this meme shit.

Here is your list of based native opponents of Rome.

>Civilis
>Virathius

That's it.

>>3183018
what do you mean by internal politics, im curious.
I thought that germanicus' invasion was simply a retaliation aimed at saving rome's glory and punishing arminius.

As a born and raised irishmen (not any plastic paddy shite) is it possible I descend from this guy?

>>3183216
The purpose of the invasion of Germanicus was to defeat Arminius and recover the lost eagle standards. Tiberius, the emperor at the time, was completely hated by everybody. Germanicus was extremely popular, handsome, a charismatic and effective commander, basically perfect in every way, and the heir to the emperorship. Tiberius got the governor of Syria to poison him. The emperor extremely paranoid and prone to purging his suspected enemies, eventually spending the last years of his life in self imposed exile because of his fears of conspiracies.

>>3183248
depends. are you a loser?

>>3183337
Well yeah. I'm on 4chan.

>>3183018
>destroy two legions in a cowardly ambush
contrary to your shitpost, Arminius destroyed 3 Legions.

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>Celtics still butthurt that they once again where invaded and assimilated
>don't mention the successful Germanic resistance
Would you like to know what happened to little Titus and his mom?

>>3183469
Well at least one of us got the job done in the end eh brother?

>>3183469
Weird thing is that the Germanics were still using just clubs and spears with very little armor and wooden/wicker shields. Meanwhile Celts had the best metallurgy and cavalry in western Europe. Maybe Tacitus was right and the Germanics were better at defending themselves because they were less degenerate, strictly monogamous, and killed their homosexuals before throwing them in bogs.

>Arminius was seen as a German hero during the Third Reich
>Someone who literally backstabbed a trusted friend
>Lost every encounter afterwards against the Romans
>Also someone who ended up dead because fellow Germans thought he was getting too powerful
Fucking Nazis were stupid for revering him.

>>3183507
>a trusted friend
Did he had Stockholm syndrome or something? He was sent as a hostage to Rome and he fucked them over as soon as he the chance. In the process he saved much of Germania from becoming a Roman province.

>>3183507
Arminius was held hostage. Roman soldiers were rampaging through Germania, turning them against each other in divide et impera, and actively trying to subjugate them. It wasn't a betrayal because the Germans had no loyalties to Rome in the first place, it was a revolt of auxiliaries. Plus there are other examples of Romans being evenly matched by Germans or getting fucking destroyed (Battle of Arausio, 80,000 Romans wiped out in one battle, way more than Cannae), despite Germans being treeniggers wielding nothing more than spears with tiny points, clubs, no armor, and wooden or wicker shields. I would think that would be something to be proud of. I forget who, but a Roman writer remarked “German freedom is to be more feared than persian despotism“ (paraphrased). That's saying a lot, since the Persians were the only other civilization to match the Romans at warfare.

>>3178336
>While they just smashed, Rome built
you know this is as much a meme as Noble savages is, right?

>>3183507
Hermann was referred long before the Nazis.
And why not, btfo'd Rome and kept Germania Germanic.
I mean people refer Vercingetorix, and he was just another surrendermonkey that lost miserably.

FACT: Viriathus is way cooler than either Caesar's pet or traitorous Arminius

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>>3183621

The true king of Iberia

>>3183666
>Iberia
Hispania Tarraconensis you mean?

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>>3183687

No, iberia, since that was the name at the time he was unifiyng the land, hispania came after the treachery that killed him

>>3183704
Why did Celts always lose against Romans. It's like they were asking to become slaves.

>>3183711

They were rapidally becoming city states, and thanks to Viriato defending against roman invasion, a single unified kingdom, Viriato lost because of this

>Knowing that the Lusitanian resistance was largely due to Viriatus' leadership, Quintus Servilius Caepio bribed Audax, Ditalcus and Minurus, who had been sent by Viriatus as an embassy to establish peace (Appian[45]). These ambassadors returned to their camp and killed Viriatus while he was sleeping. Eutropius claims that when Viriatus' assassins asked Q. Servilius Caepio for their payment he answered that "it was never pleasing to the Romans, that a general should be killed by his own soldiers.",[46] or in another version more common in modern Portugal and Spain, "Rome does not pay traitors who kill their chief". Q. Servilius Caepio was refused his Triumph by the Senate.

>After the death of Viriatus, the Lusitanians kept fighting under the leadership of Tautalus (Greek: Τάυταλος).

>Laenas would finally give the Lusitanians the land they originally had asked for before the massacre. Nevertheless, total pacification of Lusitania was only achieved under Augustus. Under Roman rule, Lusitania and its people gradually acquired Roman culture and language.

>Viriatus stands as the most successful leader in Iberia who ever opposed the Roman conquest. During the course of his campaigns he was only defeated in battle against the Romans once, and from a military standpoint can be said to have been one of the most successful generals to have ever opposed Rome's expansion. Ultimately, even the Romans recognized that it was more prudent to use treachery rather than open confrontation to defeat the Lusitanian uprising. Some fifty years later, the renegade Roman general Quintus Sertorius, at the head of another insurrection in Iberia, would meet a similar fate.

sauce in wiki

>>3183621
also bonus points for Boudica

>>3183736
>They were rapidally becoming city states, and thanks to Viriato defending against roman invasion, a single unified kingdom, Viriato lost because of this

But nevertherless they weren´t unified countries with total confidence in their leaders, therefore the lack of understanding of the need in unity against outside forces and the act of betrayal

>>3183754
This is a common theme amongst Romes barbarian enemies. More often than not they are taken down by treachery than being defeated by the Romans in open battle. The Germanics would only really start getting their act together after the Marcomannic Wars, where Rome proved that they would literally genocide whole tribes if they resisted.

>>3183798
>By the middle to late second century AD, migrating Germanic tribes like the Marcomanni and Quadi pushed their way to the Roman frontier along the Danube corridor, movements of people which resulted in conflicts known as the Marcomannic Wars; these conflicts ended in approximately AD 180.[83] Not long thereafter, larger confederations of Germanic people appeared, groups led by tribal leaders acting as would-be kings. The first of these conglomerations mentioned in the historical sources were the Alamanni (a term meaning "all men") who appear in Roman texts sometime in the 3rd century AD.[84] This change indicated that the tribalism of the Germanic people was being abandoned for consolidated rule.
From wiki. Ethnic conflict = growth of states.

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>>3180746
Fuck those savages. They destroyed so much history in their travels.

>>3178336
Averni didn't sack Rome.

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>>3183944

Fucking terrorists, they ought to be drowned

>>3183798

If i had a time machine, i would go there, imagine the romans or the egipcians seing europe as the same as europeans latter saw america and africa
Just wonder the possibilities, you could make your nation, form a culture and even a religion
>Imagine

>>3178779
>Pretty sure several of the Gaulic tribes subgugated if not exterminated by Caesar's forces were actually already established allies if not protectorates or vassals of Rome.


Yes. Those who went back on their commitments to Rome and joined the Gallic side after allying with Rome were treated very harshly. Oath-breaking and treason and stuff, this was taken very seriously.

>>3183978
The Germanics sound like my kind of people. Drink mead, eat pork, hunt, smother fags in bogs, don't pay any taxes, don't even bother with backbreaking farming, worship trees. I would introduce metal to them in exchange for wenches and land.

>>3180437
>He did that because he wanted to get them to safety you big dummy, he thought the Romans would let them go

The Romans refused to let them cross the Roman lines and leave the area around the besieged city.

Vercingetorix would not let them back into the city, and left them to starve outside the city walls, until the day of the surrender when he had to open the gates so he could ride out, letting them back in.

his reasoning was militarily sound -- he was under siege, feeding mouths that could not help fight made his position harder to hold. But it was not in any way an action of a populist hero. He was a thug who started a war, abd was ultimately the cause of everything that sprang from that act..

Amusingly, my auto spell check wants to change his name to "overcrowding."

>>3180541
"The Poison King" is a good book about him.

>>3183998

I would make some sort of theocracy, were the king would be like the pope but with the hereditary-primogeniture inheritance, were appointed priests would rule on my behalf, beat the romans into it and be first to write laws in paper like some sort of magna carta, and focus in militarization and production of metals and agriculture

>>3184051
>I would make some sort of theocracy, were the king would be like the pope
So a Caliphate. Germans inventing Islam before the Arabs– I shudder at the thought.

>be first to write laws in paper like some sort of magna carta
You mean the Quran.

>>3184051

And of course, i would choose iberians

>Fertile land with abundance in wildlife
>Lots of metals and natural ports
>Access to 3 seas and the atlantic ocean for fishing and exploration and trade
>Defensible due to mountains

>>3184078

Hum, perhaps, i was imagining as the roman emperors also proclaimed themselves gods
I wouldnt even know if it would be monotheist or politeísth tough

>>3184106

Or the latter european absolutism and englithened despotism

>>3184106
Funny thing is that began to be embraced after Diocletian, in the Dominate. Diocletian worshipped Sol Invictus, a Persian cult. He effectively turned the Roman Empire into a caliphate, where the emperor was a mysterious religious figure as well as the political head. This process of orientalization was well underway by the time of hadrian, who used Syrian architects to build the Pantheon in Rome. The outside is a classical Greek portico, but inside is a very Middle Eastern design of a dome with a hole in it, the basic pattern for a mosque.

>>3184137

I've read something like that in the past, i think the idea was to centralize power in the emperor by emulating the easterns, and to undermine the senate
Or else they would have to go batshit crazy like Calígula each generation or so

>>3184179
I just think the center of gravity for power gradually shifted east. This had become apparent by the time of Julius Caesar. Read Roman history and the provinces of Syria and Egypt loom large. Eventually the emperors themselves would just be literal easterners under the Severans.

>>3181838
>the original painting was stolen and only this black and white image remains

>:( One of Jovanovics best imho

>>3178346
kek

>>3180729
Yeah Arminius was an interesting guy. He was brought up and trained by the Romans, and then broke his oath and fought for the Germanic peoples. He died at the hands of his fellow villagers when he began to act like a monarch around them, which ran contrary to the more egalitarian culture of the tribe. I say this because he was rather ironically deified by the Nazis as a Germanic ubermensch, when his values would have ran contrary to the Prussian officer beliefs.

>>3185106
Hitler was an Austrian who blamed the Hohenzollerns and the Prussian legacy for their defeat in WWI. His contempt for Prussia lead to its dissolution during the war.

>>3185190
I'm talking about the whole idea that "Prussian officers don't disobey military orders" ethos, which so many of the Nazis used as an excuse after and during the war.

>>3181843
Not really at the time of the second war.

>>3185381
The Prussian honor code certainly prevented the Wehrmacht generals from directly disobeying Hitlers commands until it was too late. But a very large number of these officers disagreed with the Nazis on the treatment of civilians on the Easter Front.

>>3183469
what comic is this?

>>3183298
Tiberius was the one who defended the borders and prevented any sort of unified German invasion when the threat was real. Germanicus was just a glory hound. Tiberius was a true patriot.

>>3185433
I was simply stating the reasons why Germanicus was murdered.

>>3178346

I literally finished it 30 seconds before finding this thread (not OP)

>>3185431
the eagles of rome
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Eagles-of-Rome

>>3183998
>I would introduce metal to them
They had metal you dumbshit.

>>3185106
>He was brought up and trained by the Romans,
He was a hostage, taken after the Romans killed half his family. Not sure why he should be loyal to Rome.

>>3185756
Didn't he choose to serve under the standards? Roman hostages weren't required to do anything other than remain within their assigned municipality, if he actually got training and served in the legions, it means he chose to serve Rome and swear the sacramentum.
I'd say that counts as fair expectations of loyalty. Afterall plenty of children of slain enemies got raised as roman wards and lived comfortable neet lives.

>>3180713

MEN OF STONE AND LIEESS

If I post a thread with some pictures of coins I found here, that I think are Roman, will people be able to point me in the right direction?

(First time in this forum)

>>3185396
Point being, it was an actual civilized(?) power against another, Vercingetorix and the other were an inferior force against the might of Rome, it gives an air of tragedy to the whole thing.

>>3185925
>much of a choice when you got a chain around your neck.
He had just cause and he fucked the Romans royally. Without him most of today Germany would have been enslaved by the Romans for centuries, like the Gauls.

>sends his people to die
>hero

>>3181226
Why don't the french pick one of the 200 kings they had as their national hero?

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>>3177418
Do the Barbarians of the Late Empire count? If then we can count Fritigern who defeated an arguably superior Roman Army at Adrianople.


>>3180427
>He was the only person to win a battle against Caesar
Pompey Magnus and his allies defeated Caesar's assault at the Battle of Dyrrachium.

>>3186334
Except Arminius was defeated later, and this didn't result in germania being annexed.

>>3183743
>women who chimped and got raped

No. Even Arminius the glorified traitor bandit is better.

>>3181838
Me on the left.

>>3187579
>killed by his own people
and people say karmic justice doesn't exist

>>3183743
Boudicca did well to rally that many tribes, but then fucked it all up forever by pulling a dumb head on charge into a gorge against a prepared position.
She basically threw away any chance the natives had for the next 350 years.

>>3184137
>Sol Invictus, a Persian cult

Sauce? Sol was a roman deity.

>>3187830
While the Romans did have a habit of adopting foreign cults and gods willy nilly, I think Sol is actually an ancient Latin god.

>>3183490
>Weird thing is that the Germanics were still using just clubs and spears with very little armor and wooden/wicker shields
oh fuck off
Germans had metallurgy from ~500 BC
probably from contact with the Celts
stop this anti-Germanic propaganda you shitskin cunt

>>3187872
>>3187830
Most everybody had a sun god. The Romans assumed all sun gods (or moon gods, or war gods, etc.) were different aspects not interpretations of the same diety, so adopting and absorbing foreign religions was firly easy for them.

Sol Invictus, the Unconquered Sun, was another name for the eastern deity Elegabal, but without the orgiastic rites that offended Romans. Adopted as a victory god by several Roman emperors leading up to the conversion of Constantine -- prior to his conversion, he had venerated Sol Invictus as supreme god, which helped pave the way for his acceptance of monotheism.

>>3187879
They had metal working, but not nearly as widespread as the Celts. Upper class and professional warrior germans usually had armor and metal weapons, but your everyday tribal warrior often used a bone spear or javelins, a fire hardened club, or perhaps a longbow or sling.

>>3187879
In Germania, Tacitus writes, "Even iron is not plentiful with them, as we infer from the character of their weapons. But few use swords or long lances. They carry a spear (framea is their name for it), with a narrow and short head, but so sharp and easy to wield that the same weapon serves, according to circumstances, for close or distant conflict. As for the horse-soldier, he is satisfied with a shield and spear; the foot-soldiers also scatter showers of missiles each man having several and hurling them to an immense distance, and being naked or lightly clad with a little cloak. There is no display about their equipment; their shields alone are marked with very choice colours."

>>3185753
I am referring to the music genre dipshit. I have a feeling they would dig it.

>>3187830
Sol Invictus is the Latin name for Mithras.

>>3187879
Germans had access little more than bog iron until the 3rd century AD. Go fuck yourself you piece of shit, you know absolutely nothing.

>>3187911
While Elegabal may have been referred to as Sol Invictus, the actual deity Diocletian worshipped was Mithras. Mithraism was a popular cult among the Roman legions due to its hierarchic structure and martial emphasis, often equated to Mars, Hercules, Apollo, etc., the actual cult itself? Persian in origin.

>>3188292
No, it isn't. Mithras is the latin name of Mehr/Mithra. Also the Sol Invictus cult and the Mysteries of Mithras are different things.

>>3188288
They would hate it and be scared because it's loud and weird.

>>3180436
To be fair he didn't have much of a choice in that situation (other than martyring himself and his army like a retard)

>>3188333
There are two distinct gods that were equated with each other in the spirit of Hellenistic syncretism.

"Roman Mithras is the invincible sun-god, Sol Invictus. This is the burden, repeated a hundred times over, of the votive inscriptions from the second to the fourth centuries AD, whether in the form Sol Invictus Mithras, or Deus Sol Invictus Mithras, or Deus Sol Mithras, or Sol Mithras. There do not seem to be any significant regional or temporal variations among such formulae. In the very earliest epigraphic evidence for the Roman cult of Mithras, the god is already invoked as Sol Invictus Mithras. These facts are confirmed by the numerous votive offerings to Sol, Deus Sol, Sol Invictus, and Deus Invictus Sol which were put up in mithraea."
>"Victory is what characterises the god; his one unvarying epithet is Invictus."

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php?page=main#FN60

>>3188338
You have shit taste.

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>>3178336

>>3188314
The Mithras Mysteries of the romans had nothing to do with Persia, not more than the "buddhism" of american yoga moms has to do with India at least. It was also mostly dead by the time of Diocletian.

The cult of the Sol Invictus was unrelated and didn't have any inherent orientalism compared to the mysteries of Mithras. Diocletian's orientalistic influences had to do with imperial protocol and loftyness, not religion. Also he equated himself with Jupiter and his caesar with Heracles, creating a divine family of rulers. Little to do with iranic tradition.

>>3188355
Ancient people do. You act like germanics are your bros, but they're actually your grandpa.

>>3188358
>The Mithras Mysteries of the romans had nothing to do with Persia
>Persian in origin.
>Persian in origin.
>Persian in origin.
>Persian in origin.

>The cult of the Sol Invictus was unrelated and didn't have any inherent orientalism compared to the mysteries of Mithras. Diocletian's orientalistic influences had to do with imperial protocol and loftyness, not religion. Also he equated himself with Jupiter and his caesar with Heracles, creating a divine family of rulers.

Now you're blowing up and making a big stink, pretending like I'm making some unreasonable claims about the extent of Persian influence when I'm not. My original comment was

>Funny thing is that began to be embraced after Diocletian, in the Dominate. Diocletian worshipped Sol Invictus, a Persian cult. He effectively turned the Roman Empire into a caliphate, where the emperor was a mysterious religious figure as well as the political head. This process of orientalization was well underway by the time of hadrian, who used Syrian architects to build the Pantheon in Rome. The outside is a classical Greek portico, but inside is a very Middle Eastern design of a dome with a hole in it, the basic pattern for a mosque.
And when >>3187830 replied, asking about the link between Sol and Mithras, I provided context. This is the most autistic board on this fucking website, and I mean that sincerely.

>>3188351
>Mithras is always described as "sol invictus" (the unconquered sun) in inscriptions.60. But Sol and Mithras were different deities.
>Mithraism never became a state cult, however, unlike the official late Roman Sol Invictus cult.63
>Although Mithras himself is called Sol Invictus, "the Unconquered Sun", he and Sol appear in several scenes as separate persons

>>3188383
Some persiaboos deciding that this dude with a persian hat is rad so they should invent a cult around hin is hardly "persian in origin".

>>3181590
yes. If someone knows similar channels let me know.

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>tfw a siege tower scares the shit out of gauls

>>3188288

You would have to give it in small doses, starting with classical music

>>3188475
I don't think it was the siege tower itself, more like "Oh shit, the Romans just showed up and they already have a siege tower."

>>3177418
Alaric

>>3188399
>>Mithras is always described as "sol invictus" (the unconquered sun) in inscriptions.60. But Sol and Mithras were different deities.
The Romans were syncretic and translated other Gods in terms of their own pantheon all the goddamn time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_graeca#Interpretatio_romana

>>Mithraism never became a state cult, however, unlike the official late Roman Sol Invictus cult.
...Meaning Mithraism was never forced onto citizens of the Empire like Christianity was under Theodosius. Diocletian proclaimed Mithras as the "protector of the empire," in 307 A.D. Sounds like an official endorsement to me. Due to the reverence the cult owed to the figure of the emperor, and the membership of almost every emperor from Commodus to Constantine and Julian the Apostate, it contributed greatly to the growth of the imperial cult during the period of transition from Principate to Dominate.

>Although Mithras himself is called Sol Invictus, "the Unconquered Sun", he and Sol appear in several scenes as separate persons
Can you fucking read? Sol Invictus is not Sol. Two different deities.

>>3188528
Nah I would start with folk with black metal influences, like Wardruna.

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>>3177418
The only ones I know about are these guys and their friends.

>>3188406
>Some persiaboos deciding that this dude with a persian hat is rad so they should invent a cult around hin is hardly "persian in origin".
So a Persian god with a Persian name is hardly "persian in origin". The question of origination is YES or NO, not "maybe." The answer is yes. God you faggots are dumb as fuck.

>>3187566
Yes, thats because by then all roman troops and settlements where already destroyed. Rome did a couple punishment expeditions, but they did not colonize. So thats an epic win.

>>3180729
The eternal kraut.

>>3189020
Imagine I now make a cult in New York that has literally nothing to do with hinduism but call it "Mysteries of Shiva" and use random vaguely indian names for my made up terms. Is this a religion of "indian origin"?

>>3180868
Are French people that claim Napoleon Bonaparte LAPRing as Corsicans/Italians, then?

>>3188314
Could you tell us more about the martial heritage of Mithraism?

>>3183998
>bogs

It was the Celts that did that custom, largely worshippers of Teutatis. As far as I believe, that happened in lands considered Germanic now, but predated the arrival of the Germanics from Scandinavia, whence they conquered Celtic Central European lands. Interestingly, Roman and Greek accounts, or propaganda, attribute the Celts as having homosexuality open in their societies, if I recall, probably from Herodotus and/or Tacitus.

>>3189322
It's pathetic how you have to build your own argument into that analogy. The exact opposite scenario occurred. Hellenes adopted the deities and rituals of Mithraism and translated the names to Greek ones, they didn't just lift the names and create an entirely different religion.

>When, as the outcome of the expedition of Alexander (334-323 B.C.), the civilization of Greece spread throughout all Hither Asia, it impressed itself upon Mazdaism as far east as Bactriana. Nevertheless, Iranism, if we may employ such a designation, never surrendered to Hellenism. Iran proper soon recovered its moral autonomy, as well as its political independence; and generally speaking, the power of resistance offered by Persian traditions to an assimilation which was elsewhere easily effected is one of the most salient traits of the history of the relations of Greece with the Orient. But the Magi of Asia Minor, being much nearer to the great foci of Occidental culture, were more vividly illumined by their radiation. Without suffering themselves to be absorbed by the religion of the conquering strangers, they combined their cults with it. In order to harmonize their barbaric beliefs with the Hellenic ideas, recourse was had to the ancient practice of identification. They strove to demonstrate that the Mazdean heaven was inhabited by the same denizens as Olympus: Ahura-Mazda as Supreme Being was confounded with Zeus; Verethraghna, the victorious hero, with Heracles; Anâhita, to whom the bull was consecrated, became Artemis Tauropolos, and the identification went so far as to localize in her temples the fable of Orestes. Mithra, already regarded in Babylon as the peer of Shamash, was naturally associated with Helios; but he was not subordinated to him, and his Persian name was never replaced in the liturgy by a translation, as had been the case with the other divinities worshipped in the Mysteries.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/mom/mom04.htm

>>3189358
Mithraism was extremely popular among the Roman military. Only men could join, and it was very hierarchical with seven grades of initiation. More here

http://www.academia.edu/4449296/The_Mysterious_Mysteries_of_Mithras_Was_Mithraism_a_Roman_military_cult

>>3189365
It was a joke, but mainly refers to the Germanics having a fairly unique stigma of homosexuality (which still exists today, in attenuated form) and an attachment to monogamy. There was a famous episode where Gothic troops slaughtered seven thousand people in Thessalonica who were outraged that the Goths had arrested a gladiator when they found out he was gay (after he had tried to rape a male cupbearer). This was after the Greeks became Christian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Thessalonica

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>>3189415
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Thessalonica

but that's fake

>>3189415

And thus was born the death row

>>3189432
Impressive speed at image crafting. Obviously the ecclesiastical history dances around and avoids saying it, but its fairly obvious what attempting an outrage means. The point is the Gothic officer arrested the gladiator for homosexual acts, its somewhat ambiguous as to who the charioteer assaulted, some say its the officer and others a servant.

>>3183992
Did they defect to the gallic side before or after caesar began killing indiscriminately?

Is that guy right or not?

>>3189467
how fucking mentally ill are you?? It say buthericus was acting like a dumbass in a tavern and the charioteer tried to start an outrage because of it.

>>3178336
This.

>>3189481
God, this fucking piece of shit board. You can say “cows eat grass“ and some retard will pick an argument with you.

>The next problem is the actual cause of rebellion. We know that Butheric had one charioteer imprisoned because of indecent behaviour of the latter – Sozomen is specific enough as to tell us that the charioteer tried to rape a cup-bearer or a male servant in a tavern. We are not told anything else about the charioteer but he must have been a popular one because, as the races were about to begin, the people of Thessalonica demanded that he be released immediately.
>After Butheric had refused, a riot ensued which, in the end, cost Butheric his life. Frakes concludes that although Sozomen is our only source to tell us about the charioteer, these details of the story may be authentic.
>He also noted that the standard English translation of Sozomen contains a crucial flaw regarding the attempted rape: “When Buthericus was general of the troops in Illyria, a charioteer saw him shamefully exposed at a tavern, and attempted an outrage; he was apprehended and put in custody.” With such garbled English translation, there is no wonder that misconceptions occasionally occur.
^Emphasis on the last line. You're reading a flawed translation. The original greek is much clearer in describing what happened.
>In one of his works, Thomas Hodgkin avoided the cause of the revolt altogether only to remark elsewhere that Butheric “shut up in prison a certain scoundrel of a charioteer who had vilely insulted him”.
>King not only accepted the flawed translation but expressed himself rather explicitly: “A charioteer beloved by the people of Thessalonica tried to rape a Gothic officer by the name of Butheric and was cast into prison.”
^Again, you are looking at a flawed translation.

http://www.academia.edu/9502565/Rethinking_a_massacre_What_really_happened_in_Thessalonica_and_Milan_in_390

>>3188461
Bazbattles, reply history and epic history tv.

>>3185756
I'm writing in praise of him; I meant that he was "brought up" in the same way that Vlad Dracul and his more complaisant brother were brought up in the court of Mehmed.

>>3189852
>Vlad Dracul
Thats a very good analogy I haven't seen brought up before. Vlad was the Arminius of Eastern Europe.

How come such an innocent thread cause so much butthurt?

>>3190270
Nothing innocent about snow niggers with an inferiority complex

>>3180713
>>3186304
I HATE GAULS

>>3189781
thanks

Coriolanus was pretty cool until he got cucked by his mum

>>3190270
Frenchies inferiority complex is triggered because Gaulfag surrendered while Germanfag won the war and kicked out Romans.

>>3190270
Because it touches on nationalism, genocide and Romans. The internet is filled with retarded romaboos and nationalists.

>>3180726

The Senones were Gaulish you faggot, they invaded Northern Italy. Also

>The Senones were one of the various Gallic tribes which had recently invaded northern Italy. They settled on the Adriatic coast around where modern Rimini is. According to Livy, they were called to the Etruscan town of Clusium (modern Chiusi in Tuscany) by Aruns, an influential young man of the city who wanted to take revenge against Lucumo, who had "debauched his wife." [10] When the Senones appeared, the Clusians felt threatened and asked Rome for help. The Romans sent the three sons of Marcus Fabius Ambustus, one of Rome’s most powerful aristocrats, as ambassadors. They told the Gauls not to attack Clusium and that if they did, the Romans would fight to defend the town. They then asked to negotiate a peace. The Senones accepted a peace on condition that the Clusians would give them some land. There was a quarrel and a battle broke out. The Roman ambassadors joined in. One of them killed a Senone chieftain. This was a violation of the rule that ambassadors have to be neutral. The brothers had taken sides and moreover, one of them had killed a Senone. The Gauls withdrew to discuss what action to take.[11]

Rome didn't just go "lel barbarian EXDDDDDDDDDDDDD"

>>3180729

He literally got raped by Germanicus 4-7 years later.

>>3189347

Yes

>>3181265

>What is Pompey Magnus

>>3183566

If the Romans really wanted to take over Germania they would've.

>>3177418
That man looks angry, smelly, he gives off intimidating airs, and frankly just seems unpleasant.

>>3178346
Yeah this, but historically it's funny how he was a boogeyman and convenient villain until France decided they needed some heroes.

Which now that I consider is odd, as why the hell do you pick a fucking tribal savage as any form of hero when you've got Charles martell, various Knights n sheit, and the few 'heroes' of the revolution?

He was a faggot, why does anyone like him?

>>3191885
Because he is a tragic hero, and was fighting for the "Gauls"/Celts as a whole. The problem with other heroes is that they fought for a religion, a King, a political, system, etc, Vercingetorix fought for all the Gauls, and of course, the French are 100% Celtic stock.

>>3191854
Yeah, they just lost 3 Legions an all their settlements for fun.

>>3191864
Well, he's French.

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>>3191885
It's idiotic to view Vercingetorix and the Gauls as simply "fucking tribal savage[s]" but that's besides the point. Vercingetorix is a relevant choice because he's the closest thing to a leader "France" had during antiquity, he's perhaps the most prominent Gaul in history and his story, accurately or not, is easily framed as that of a hero leading his nation's struggle for independence against an aggressive empire, with some success though he was ultimately defeated. From a nationalistic point of view the further back you can anchor your nation's history the better and in turn justify your beliefs as something natural, just like the Germans romanticised Arminius or Hermann.

>when you've got Charles martell, various Knights n sheit, and the few 'heroes' of the revolution?
Pic related for example. Same guy also did paintings of the first French king and Napoleon, none of this stuff is mutually exclusive. Both Charles Martel and Vercingetorix have 19th century statues in France.

>>3191885
The main problem the French have here is that their most prominent Hero's are named Karl, Ludwig & Nabulione.