Why Cuba has a decent HDI despite being under american embargo?

Says who?

>>3177065
HDI is a terrible way to measure quality of life.

>>3177491
Why? Cuba has a good health care and education it seems, despite, again, being under embargo.

HDI is a measure of how far to the left your country has drifted

File: Commie_boat.png (506KB, 581x435px) Image search: [Google]

506KB, 581x435px

>>3177523
Then, how you explain this?

>>3177065
1. Soviet stipends accounted for 15-35% of its whole GDP for about 40 years, aid which absolutely dwarfs whatever potential damage the American embargo inflicted by about an order of magnitude.
2. It started as the wealthiest country in Latin America. Since the 50s it has rapidly declined. In 1950 its GDP per capita was three times greater than that of the Dominican Republic, now they're about equal.

File: cuban_healthcare.jpg (45KB, 450x459px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 450x459px

>>3177523
So good that people risk their lives sailing to America on little rubber boats.

>>3177065

because HDI is a worthless meme.

>Hey carlos! who cares if youre living in a rotten decrepid 2 room apartment with your entire extended family! cuba has a high HDI

>>3177065
Because the people in charge of Cuba are mostly white. Fidel Castro was a white man. Raul Castro is a white man. It all comes down to that, no amount of embargoes and political systems will offset the fact that white countries are better off than non-white countries. Just compare Cuba to Haiti.

>>3177537
>>3177542
Maybe because they're under american embargo? Oh, right, let's forget about that.

>>3177545
But when they return to cuba go straight to the jail, this is how embargo works?

>>3177545
So what? Cuba can still trade with other countries.

>>3177543
Do you have any idea what HDI means?

>>3177543
This. HDI is crap metric only stupid spics use, seriously I've only ever seen South Americans caring about it. It takes arbitrary shit like mean school years into account which have fuck all to do with living standards.

>>3177573
HDI was invented by communistic pooinloos to appear good in international rankings

>>3177556
what do most countries do with defectors?

>>3177582

superpower by 2020, just you wait

>>3177592
>go out seeking better life conditions risking their life in the process
>such traitors, get back and resist like the others stupid reactionaries.

>>3177592
Countries like Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia, east germany, Urss.... man, What thing they will have in common?

Because Amartya Sen, a socialist Indian intellectual, created the Human Development Index as a propaganda tool for the Kerala model he promoted. Kerala is a state of India traditionally governed by communists that is less unequal and have better social services than the rest of the country, though the economy is shit and most of its economic active population has to migrate to the Gulf countries to find employment.

Cuba has a similar model to Kerala.

>>3177592
Defectors is exactly the word that every other oppressive government would use to describe these people. In most places we call them refugees.

>>3177065
focus on healthcare and literacy. They have extensive programs specifically dedicated to improving both of these. I don't know if they did this specifically to improve HDI but that is a major policy point for the regime

>>3177065
>>3177523
>>3177545
Obama lifted the embargo on Cuba 5 years ago, the country is still an absolute shithole, and it hasn't improved a single bit despite heaps of new capital moving into the country. Proving once and for all and without a shadow of a doubt that the communist government of the island was just another banana-republic corrupt piece of shit.

>>3177703
I thought it was still a thing. Lol, I wanna see how the commies excuse Cuba's situation now.

>>3177737
>its a tradition

Like any other communist shithole, the Cuban government has used its capital to enrich their own inner circle while the average person continues to live in abject poverty.

>>3177737
>>3177784

I don't see how this is true as Cuba isn't a communist country. It's not even a socialist country as the means of production are not publicly owned.

>>3177791
Oh, right, I forgot, communism has never been tried.

>>3177791
>turns out communist Cuba can't use the embargo excuse for being a shithole anymore
>WELL IT'S NOT EVEN COMMUNIST
Predictable

>>3177558
So the fact that Cuba is forbidden to trade with the largest economy on Earth which also dominates the world financial system has no effect?

Cuba is the biggest shithole in Latin America by far (ok Haiti if you're autistic and count them in). They just copied the soviet agitprop model and have been blasting it to the world for 50 years, especially to fellow spanish speakers. In my country it's said that to cure a childish commie all they have to do is visit Cuba. It's happened time and again, including to several relatives and acquaintances.
Also as a curiosity I visited one of their "medical missions" in my country, lmao a Cuban doctor has 3 years of post high school education, from their own mouths.

>>3177821
Cuba has a North Korean style tourists only circuit for foreigners to see, so they can give off the impression that the country is a lot better than it is, they don't usually allow people to visit the favela-tier parts, which make up a big chunk of the island.

They also don't let people interact too much, when I visited the country my Cuban aunt, for example, even tho she is a government official (tho technically everyone is some kind of goverment employee over there), wasn't allowed to enter the hotel we were in.

>>3177811
>>3177804

Not being a dick or anything but yeah, it's not communist. I don't know how any definition of communism would include Cuba as it is not a stateless, classless society free of capitalist exploitation

Shut the fuck up you fucking manchildren, and explain to me why HDI is SUCH A BAD STATISTICAL MEASUREMENT TOOL (xD) when y'all fags are using GDP and everyone knows what's wrong with it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Offieyp2VNw

What a goddamned waste.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

I wonder why they haven't submitted their data if they're so developed.

>>3177867
A Marxist-Leninist one party state kind of gives it away.

>>3177867
Dude, Communism is not only that unachievable utopia, it's also about those governments who aim to get that through socialism. In Cuba case is the PCC (Communist Party of Cuba) who control the state in their favor.

>>3177888
T. Poo in the loo

Cuba is observable more stable and tranquil than the rest of the Caribbean including crime and murder infested Puerto Rico and most of Central America for that matter. Only righttard shills and their pet defectors deny this.

>>3178031
t. Never actually been to Cuba or even met a Cuban

>>3178035
Have actually talked to people who visited Cuba. Not interested in the opinions of criminals and rapists escaping the law and I certainly don't want them in my county but you warmongering shills just love causing mass exoduses from the turmoil you stir up in the name of religious and economic liberty.

>>3178057
Oh, you are just shitposting, carry on then.

>>3177556
Most western countries do that too. Defectors to South Korea from the North are imprisoned if they say they want to return.

>>3178061
>People immigrate from Cuba because America has more stuff and benefits i.e instant citizen ship.
>People immigrate from the Dominican Republic because of poverty.
>People immigrate from Jamaica cause of crime and poverty.
>People immigrate from Puerto Rico for job opportunities and maybe voting rights.
>Cuban communism is the only thing has problems here.

>>3177791
>as the means of production are not publicly owned.

Yes, they literally are.

>>3178087
>People immigrate from Cuba because America has more stuff and benefits i.e instant citizen ship.

No, they immigrate because most of Cuba barely has bread for people. You literally need to buy food off black markets if you want to be above Africa levels of fed.

Also drugs and street violence are really bad in Cuba, street violence not as bad as other countries because the Cuban government is heavily involved in the drugs business.

>>3178087
But puerto ricans are american citizens. There is no immigration.

>>3178087
Hey, Cuba isn't true communism =^)

>>3178099
Yeah sure thing it's resident evil and the whole populace has cannibalized each other including the fat greaseball lards who can't go a day without a burger. You know food costs money in capitalists societies also.

>>3178057
>hurrr the opinions of actual Cubans don't count because i'm an edgy /pol/-tier dumbass

Guarentee you that the average Cuban exile would know more about how shitty Cuba has become than some tourist faggot.

>>3178080
>Name South Korea
>the list stop

>>3178097

How? Note that the government owning something doesn't make them publicly owned.

>>3178103
More like second class citizens until they achieve statehood and have to pay taxes but the right just like the Cubans in Miami don't want to.

>>3178113
Yes and food also costs money in Cuba.

Or what? you think they just give it away?

File: Che_justice.jpg (83KB, 850x400px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 850x400px

>>3177065
The "Cuban" hero of the workers get fanatic to the cause.

>>3178137
He's right. It was a war and you fight it just like any other war.

File: 2015-09-02_0424.png (973KB, 720x628px) Image search: [Google]

973KB, 720x628px

>>3178114
Guaranteed your average lower income working class person in a capitalist society knows how shitty life truly is in the freeworld compared to the idealized lures presented by hollywood movies.

File: che-racist-quote.jpg (37KB, 860x481px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 860x481px

>>3178137

>>3178157
Rather be poor in a first world country where i have a/c, cable, refrigerators, microwaves and internet available to me while working my way up than live in communist country where every one lives in squalor and has to wait in line for bread with no modern luxurys or chance of improving your lot in life

File: When_capitalism_hits_in.jpg (6KB, 267x189px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 267x189px

>>3178137
>>3178154
>>3178164

>>3177065
I often wonder just how much worst Cuba would be if not for the millions of dollars flowing constantly into the country from migrants to the US.

>>3178130
Yeah? Social services are a tenet of socialism. Not saying no one works but it exists. But since it doesn't count on the backing of 400 + years of aristocratic passing on of wealth it can't possibly be as broad as any first world endeavor.

>>3178183
Let's put it this way:

>The one thing Cuba is good at is agriculture.
>Cuba gets a lot of money from abroad
>Yet there's constant shortages of food, and there were even when farm labor was mandatory, with constant soviet aid.

It screams poor management.

>>3178170
Any wise person knows nothing is one sided in this world. Those who appear to have little might actually have a great abundance in other things. While those who appear to have a lot may actually be in need and lacking of other things. Attachment to conveniences can be similar to addictions.

>>3177065
Cuba was the Soviet slut until the end, and now is a lonely poor slut.

>>3178200
No other country in the region and I mean real county not some tourist brothel has much better management either or circumstances for that matter. It's more a problem of the nature of the globalized market and the constant attempts at harming its fragile existence.

>>3178212
Yeah except for the fact that Cubans whore their 10 year olds out to Canadian tourists so they can eat and thousands flee each year on make shift rafts made of trash to go to the poster child of capitalism

>>3178238
Nother meme. Fascists Thais and Filipinos and plenty of non communist places have plenty of child prostitution as well including Amuricuh.

>>3178238
It's also more like fickle materialism has a greater pull than idealist devotion. It just illustrates the corrupted nature of the world which numerous religions and philosophies have tried to address.

>>3178250
3178250
And Thailand and the Philippines aren't held as an example to follow by anyone. While Cuba is constantly used in propaganda. Just face the facts m8, Cuba is a hellhole

>>3178227
Cuba is big, really big, bigger than any other shitty little island in the Caribbean. It had 600 years worth of infrastructure and tradition coming out of it's independence war, plenty of natural resources, a strategic position between the 2 Americas AND Europe, renowned quality in certain items, mainly Tobacco, very good early relationship with the US, later on very good relationship with the USSR, also friendly relationships with other LATAM countries since forever, and has been getting money from it's diaspora since forever as well.
They had total control over every aspect of life of the island for years, they made high-school students work the fields and feed them off their work. And even then, they weren't even able to properly feed their population.

I don't care about the autistic shitflinging between commies and neocons, but Castro was an awful president, his brother is just as awful, and that whole party is awful in general. They treat the island as their personal feud, just like all other LATAM socialists.
If you think they're fake socialists then fine, but they are the face of socialism in LATAM.

>>3177703
I'm >>3177737 and I just read on Wikipedia that the embargo is still a thing. Could you pass me a source on Obama lifting it, please? I'd like one so I can see commies trying to come up with an excuse when they can't pull the muh embargo card.

>>3177840
You mean they are followed around so that they don't venture into non-tourist designated areas?

>>3178286
>Expecting more examples of communism in world aggressively controlled by an entrenched aristocracy.
Cuba for the citizenry is less a hell hole than plenty of unregulated banana republics.

>>3178292
Still has a lower infant mortality than the rest of the region. Let's not get into health and education. All you rightist shills have is muh hunger.

>>3178302
Lel o lel

>>3178306
Hospitals are shit if you can even get an appointment and schools are a bloody disaster. Just because they're free doesn't mean they're good you dumb nigger. Get out of the US once in your life, maybe you'd learn a thing or two about how the world works.

actual cuban here
cuba is a piece of shit but better than most of south america :)

>>3178325
Still better than non communist places of similar economic resources. It should be remembered that it's public too and not on a private for profit use basis. Maybe you should get out of the US once in your life to see why people incline towards socialized politics. You wouldn't know not having a single sweat shop in your country.

>>3178296
Seems like it's gotten messier since I last checked

>Obama says he would
>congress says don't
>Obama lifts some of them
>Some US corporations move into the island
>Trump Administration backpedals on Obama's directive

I didn't knew about the last bit. I'm not sure how that affects the people who were currently setting up operations on Cuba.

>>3178356
Trump said he wants a "good deal" and not a bad one like he said Obama negotiated. All pandering for more brownie points.

>>3178347
Not even American. Also being public doesn't excuse schools having people openly selling drugs and girls whoring off for cigars.

Even US schools aren't that deep in shit, and they're some of the worst schools IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

>>3178367
The main argument against it was that Obama was letting the Castro administration off and giving them access to more resources to further their power without asking it to respect common western human rights like freedom of speech and stuff. That can obviously be a bunch of bullshit, but yes, it basically translates to "we want a better deal'.

File: school-shooting.jpg (22KB, 400x225px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 400x225px

>>3178369
Sure thing m8. Tu the gulags with u.
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/03/shooting_of_teen_outside_cleve.html

>>3177888
You're either a third worlder or just a retard, but either way HDI is arbitrary.

>>3178369
Neoliberal Colombia has many drug lords hunting for girls after class to make them their siliconed drug mule girl friends. They literally made a tv series about it.

>>3178031
Just because it's very slightly less shit than it's shit neighbors, doesn't mean it isn't shit, now back to /leftypol/ you go with your shitposting.

>>3178424
>wanting limited resources to magically increase
I know you rightists believe in miracles but the last guy who did them was thought to be God.

>>3177537
Because everyone wants to emigrate to the states, and the cubans are in a position to do so quite easily, both geographically and as a matter of US immigration policy and its special treatment of cuban migrants.

>>3177523
Careful there. You'll trigger the anti-Castro internet brigade.

>>3177542
That image is from a prison hospital.

>>3177867
It's just weird how Cuba gets to be a communist country when it has a high HDI and great medicine but when it turns out the place is shit it's magically not communist anymore.

>>3178419
Yes, Colombia, a country that has been fighting a civil war for 30 years against a pseudo-socialist guerrilla, who happens to be the main group creating the drug business in said country.

If you wanted to bring up an example of a capitalist shithole you should of used Mexico instead, or central America.

>>3177558
IIRC the US blocks anything with any US product in it.

>>3177673
The same issue is or was in Haiti, Colombia, Indonesia, apartheid South Africa, El Salvador, Haiti, Chile, Argentina, etc

>>3177840
There are an awful lot of photographs and documentation for a country that's supposedly as secretive as North Korea. Really zaps your zebras.

>>3178536
"NK style" not "as secretive as NK'.

Reading comprehension.

>>3178521
In none of those countries you'd be arrested for simply trying to move somewhere else.

>>3178099
Yep they're so hungry and Africa-level malnourished the UN and UNICEF have distinguished them as the most malnourished country in Latin America.
Oops. They're noted to be one of the better-nourished countries in Latin America, especially given the fact that they're poor.

>>3178512
>All the drug traffickers are leftist
Deregulation and free market is probably the narco's ideal. Look at all the boyfucking opium lords of halfghanistan.

>>3178439
Who are you quoting exactly? I just corrected your mistake that you thought Cuba wasn't magically shit because it's neighbors manage to be even shittier, but by all means keep at it with the (You)s.

>>3178553
>Deregulation and free market is probably the narco's ideal.

Probably yes, but in Colombia it's the left-wing guerrilla who's doing it currently. And all the left-wing latin american governments are involved in drug trafficking.

Honestly if you really hate capitalism that much you should worry about purging out these parasites giving you guys an awful reputation, because they aren't helping you make any friends.

>>3177542
Implying other Caribbeans don't arrive on similar boats and not on some first class jets or central Americans jumping trains to escape the wonders of free marketism and CIA intervention don't have their legs crushed under trains only to be treated like second class labor and demanded for them to be sent back. Meanwhile coddled Cubans experiencing utopian society and the richest materialist society get blowjobs from conservatives and gibsmedat for victims of communist oppression for the rest of their lives.

>>3178563
The drug trade is not fixed to a political ideology. Uribe had involvement with narcos as well and probably with some guerillas and para-millitary, which may be why he was so anxious to get rid of some of them. All sides of the conflict partake in similar activities just like in Syria and probably anyother conflict for that matter.

>>3178576
Most of the Caribbean is under jurisdiction of some foreign power, and are able to freely take planes in and out of their native countries. The poorest country in the Caribbean is Haiti, and they get to the US in smaller quantities, and usually trough plane.

>>3178588
>The drug trade is not fixed to a political ideology.

Of course not, but the left-wing governments are definitely guilty of it. .
And in the cases of Argentina and Brasil they're in fact the only ones guilty of it so far.

And really, I don't care about the /leftypol/ and /pol/ shitflinging, it's honestly rather tiresome, but Cuba is shit, the Castro administration is horrendous, and they've turned a potentially rich Switzerland-like country into an Africa-tier shithole, wether this is because communism or simply due to their own individual incompetence, I don't care, but they've been a nuisance to all the people of Cuba, including a lot of the mid to low-level government officials, and they don't even have the decency to fuck off.

>>3178591
Liar liar pants on fire.
http://coastguardnews.com/coast-guard-repatriates-74-migrants-to-the-dominican-republic/2017/01/26/

>>3178616
>Switzerland
Your attempts at subversion will not work.

>>3178306
It's because they classify anyone younger than 2 who dies a failed pregancy.

>>3178641
lul

>>3178616
Typical Gusano, "we could have been the best country ever were it not for Castro", never thinking for a second that maybe their incompetence was the reason they got exiled.

>>3178656
Not a Cuban.

Also Miami is basically a capitalist Cuban city and is rather successful, one of the most prosperous cities in the US. Cubans are kind of loud and obnoxious but they're definitely not stupid.

And the rest of Latin America was doing pretty alright until Cuba and the USSR started funding socialist movements all over the region.

>>3178663
Go live in Miami then.

>>3178691
Only if you go live in Cuba.

>>3178663
>miami
It's got one of the highest poverty rates of all american cities, bruv.
>the rest of latin america was doing pretty alright before the USSR and the Cubans showed up
define "doing pretty alright".

>>3178663
>Miami
>prosperous
I'm not going to defend communists but really? Miami is one of the worst cities in America, extremely high crime rate, unreal levels of poverty, barely anyone can speak English, fucking Haitian and Dominican boat people everywhere pushing drugs, population that's only around 30% white, rundown infrastructure, etc. Miami is a complete shithole.
>b-but muh South Beach
A few touristy resorts don't invalidate that most of the city is a fucking slum

>>3178702
>>3178705
>Miami is a major center, and a leader in finance, commerce, culture, media, entertainment, the arts, and international trade.[11][12] In 2012, Miami was classified as an Alpha−World City in the World Cities Study Group's inventory.[13] In 2008, Forbes magazine ranked Miami "America's Cleanest City", for its year-round good air quality, vast green spaces, clean drinking water, clean streets, and citywide recycling programs.[14] According to a 2009 UBS study of 73 world cities, Miami was ranked as the richest city in the United States, and the world's seventh-richest city in terms of purchasing power.[15] Miami is nicknamed the "Capital of Latin America"[1] and is the largest city with a Cuban-American plurality.[16]

>>3178710
The median income in Miami is 29k per year. For comparison, it's 25k in Detroit and 28k in Cleveland, two total shitholes. But they both have significantly cheaper cost of living than Miami, so if you combine the poverty with Miami's absurdly high costs you're looking at Africa tier poverty right here.

>>3178710
>According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 2004, Miami had the third highest incidence of family incomes below the federal poverty line in the United States, making it the third poorest city in the USA, behind only Detroit, Michigan (ranked #1) and El Paso, Texas (ranked #2). Miami is also one of the very few cities where its local government went bankrupt, in 2001

There' figures have no improved much over the years
https://www.miamidade.gov/business/library/reports/2013-income-poverty.pdf

>>3178723
Miami has expensive housing, but not as expensive as other coast cities, and everyday items are cheaper than in other cities. Also relatively low taxes.

Also I guess i'm technically talking about the Miami Dade metropolitan area that also consists of the other gorillion mini-cities that surround Miami's downtown. But I don't know If I'll find data for that whole area.

>>3178750
Median home value in Miami is 300k, in Cleveland it's 69k and in Detroit it's 42k. So do the math. People in Detroit earn 86% the income of Miami but their houses cost only 14% the cost of Miami houses. Miami is objectively poorer than mother fucking Detroit.

>>3178705

>South Beach

Even that part is sketchy as fuck once you step outside the 5-star hotels and the outdoor malls near the beach.

>>3178723
This is true. The middle class areas are the pricey (pricier than average) Hialeah and Coral Gables neighborhoods, which tend to be full of middle/upper middle class Cubans. The really ghetto areas are where Haitians, Dominicans, and the rest of the fresh off the boat LatAms live.

t. former South Floridian

>>3177065
>>3177523
>>3177545
>under american embargo
>yet they can trade with everyone else in the fucking globe
>yea no mang, let's suck USSR's cock for oil and money and then Venezuela's cock for oil and money and now let's beg to Obama to take out America's cock so we can keep our noble tradition of begging
Die in a fire faggot

>>3177812
>Rejects the world's largest economy
>yet it needs to trade with the world's largest economy
just like every leftist in the world

>>3178794
I think it's a bit of a stretch to call places like south miami a ghetto. The only place in that whole area with actually high crime rates is the downtown, most everywhere else is average.

>>3178588
>Uribe had involvement with narcos as well
Uribe has personally met Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump in american soil and yet the van does not pick him up. That's why I hate Latin America, it's full of people uncapable of unpuzzling simple yet powerfully true facts and that's what always keep this part of the world undeveloped and that's why they keep being leftist no matter what.

>>3178521
>Colombia
Wtf are you talking man, here we don't care about this bullshit.

t. colombian