Agricultural production in Tsarist Russia and the SU

>>3158431
As i said Pan Slavism and the Russian geostrategical situation are huge drivers for Expansionism. Its not stylish fascism without some sort of Lebensraum thinking though.

Ukraine was the breadbasket of both Tsarist Russia and USSR, without it and especially without heavy investments in mechanization the country wouldn't have the ability to sustain its own agricultural needs.

The problem with USSR agriculture was that it was almost always neglected in favor of heavy industry. Even after WW2 Stalin kept building heavy industry while fields mostly layed desolated from the war.

In your scenario, if the big land-owners have no ambition to improve the agricultural output,chances are it will remain a semi-feudalist shithole like it was before the Revolution, only even poorer since there's no Ukraine. It would rely heavily on foreign import, i assume from USA and Germany.

>>3158478
Thanks!

So its safe to say that Russia would be heavily dependent on foreign imports?

Ukraine with high Investments and a modern agriculture on the other hand would be fairly wealthy?

Germany imported food throughout the 20th Century no?

Especially if the Ukraine is in its economic and political sphere.

>>3158646
I actually looked it up. The German Empire was a constant food importer.

If the German Empire has an independent Ukraine in its economic and political sphere that trend would have been accelarated imho. So the Ukraine wouldn't trade enough with Russia to secure a stable food situation. Especially if the Russian agriculture stagnates while the population grows. So imports from the USA are often needed as a substitute.

>>3158431
Shameless self bump

>>3158431
I read some things about serfdom in the Russian empire and a snippet from an English nanny who helped the royal household.

Both of them seem to suggest that agriculture was already quite collectivized and that people clustered together a lot.

>>3158849
Yeah but thats not comparable to Socialist forced collectivization. Stolpyns reforms encouraged peasant cooperatives with capitalist incentives. The Socialists forced people at gunpoint and their farms had the same problems all Socialist Industries had. No incentives to work efficiently on the Micro scale (the individual worker/peasant) no incentives to work efficiently on a Macro scale (modernization not necessary because the plan sets the goals).

Cooperations in a capitalist Economy can work really well.

>>3158710
That's interesting, can you provide any sources on the German Empire's imports/exports? Sound like an interesting read.

>>3158979
Do you speak German by a chance?

>>3158987
I've some sort of grasp on German since I studied it. But, regardless, I could ask some of my German mates to help me out if I would have trouble.

>>3158990
Nevermind i found an english Source.

Pretty interesting. I haven't read it fully but from what I have gathered Germany had to Import but was nearly self sufficient but the strong agricultural sector slowed industrial growth.

That matches with my German sources.

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.helsinki.fi/iehc2006/papers2/Grant.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjPx6Puxa7VAhXC7BQKHQhgBrgQFggfMAE&usg=AFQjCNGAkQuMoMFfpETQq0mAbA5GagESnA

>>3159005
Cheers

>>3158990
>since I studied it
Sabaton is Swedish, champ.

>>3159048
Here is a german source mostly about the protectionist policies. Touches the subject too.

books.google.de/books?id=iaPXoY215mQC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=getreide+importe+deutsches+reich&source=bl&ots=NUkEwaoetA&sig=mFBZxyvGypcMByelXC7qgVqFajk&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiikP6pzK7VAhUD7xQKHceHA44Q6AEIPDAG#v=onepage&q=getreide%20importe%20deutsches%20reich&f=false

>>3159068
Memes aside I did take up German for 4 years, too bad I didn't bother revising and shit.

>>3159080
Thanks, mate, appreciate it.

>>3158979
>>3159229

If you are interested in my headcanon:

In my alternate History Germany eventually drops the protectionist policies because Industrial and liberal lobbies win over the Junker. The agriculture sector declines because Ukrainian imports are cheaper due to lower wages there. Germany becomes more reliant on the Ukraine, in turn the Ukraine becomes a major market for German Industrial exports. Ukrainian food imports to Russia decline more and more because the Germans have the economic and political might too prevent Russians from buying grain.

Russia in turn is plagued by food insecurities and often reliant on American grain exports. When economic crisis hits and the german agriculture collapses food prices in Russia skyrocket because Ukrainian grain only is sold to Germany due to German economic and political pressure.

American exports also dry up due to American political troubles. This leads to a really tense situation that benefits the rise of extremism and Lebensraum as a political concept.

>>3159289
So in a sense Germany would become the autarky of Europe from what I understand?

>>3159302
Well Autarky is relative.

Base scenario is Kaiserreich (the Hearts of Iron mod, not a completely logical but cool scenario). Germany wins WW1.


Most power blocs that have emerged in 1936 are pretty protectionistic. Germany actually is among the more economically liberal ones.

They are pretty self centered economically because most relevant markets outside the German sphere are mostly closed due to protectionism. Some trade is happening but Germany is largely active in its own sphere (a german dominated proto EU) and ist colonies.