Communism

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>>3150731
>capitalism did nothing wrong

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>>3150731

Because capitalism (((prevents))) societies from achieving communism.

>>3150731

The way culture and media and technology progressed made it no longer working, the same way feudalism stopped being viable. The same way democratic republics will stop being viable and give way to Chinese style government, which will in turn give way to anarchy and street gangs and then feudalism again when the population demographics explode.

Literally everything has a lifespan. 200 years from now people will be talking about how capitalism always ends in collapse as we slave away building pyramids for our warlord-gods.

No effort was made towards organization at the micro-economic level. A state factory would never have an audit, its books would never be scrutinized, the central committee made economics by decree and took macro-economic data they received fully at face value.
A vicious cycle ensued: With everyone lying on their books in order to secure bonus's on worker salaries (managers always made sure that workers were well paid, as they were more likely to get denounced by the rank and file than scrutinized by the party), which meant that the state not only paid out a greater wage than was produced, but always priced and set quota's on the assumption that the numbers they had were actually correct. Managers now had to lie to a greater degree and the roubles in the economy was always greater and greater than the total cost of goods at market. The only thing that staved off proper hyper-inflation was the black market and its consumption of excess roubles.

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>I can imagine with what noble indignation some people will recoil from these words. . . . What! The transition to state capitalism in the Soviet Socialist Republic would be a step forward? . . . Isn’t this the betrayal of socialism? We must deal with this point in greater detail.
Firstly, we must examine the nature of the transition from capitalism to socialism that gives us the right and the grounds to call our country a Socialist Republic of Soviets.-Lenin

No one actually believed state ownership=socialism untill stalin.

Central planning is just not a long term efficient way of keeping an economy running. Its good for fighting a war or establishing an industrial economy fast, but its untenable

A great deal of time and money is spent on the manpower to plan it all out when having it left to the market is more cost effective. There is also no drive to be more efficient, you can just ask for as money raw materials as you think you need and they'll give it to you. Soviet factories used more electricity while having less output

>>3150950
>no drive to be more efficient
Technically there was, insofar as there were bonus's for factory production over quota, running trains faster than scheduled, and piece-wage in primary industries.
However, a few problems: there was no bonus's for quality control and only penalties for not meeting quota's.
A tractor assembly factory sits on its ass knowing the quota's are coming up, but no parts have yet been sent to them. They finally receive the parts, only to discover the engines are next to unfunctioning. But at this point, who gives a fuck? Paydays coming and they're gonna get docked, so they spend 16 hours shifts daily just to assemble these terrible tractors, probably cutting corners other than ignoring the engine, so they can put it on their books that they made em. Now it's out of their hands and that paycheque is coming in. It wasn't their fault it came in bad, so it ain't there fault of it goes out bad, thus goes the soviet supply chain.

>>3150807
>>3150731
how did capitalism prevent marxist states from achieving communism? Did they do it by providing a place to flee to, thus increasing the demands on the totalitarian regimes?

>>3151013
Mostly dictating price on the world market, which for obvious reasons the soviet sphere could never match. Nothing it could export beyond armaments was competitive (here's the weird twist of fate, anything military was actually supervised competently, with accurate production figures and wages paid out correctly) while anything it could export was prohibitively expensive, for the steep cost involved in obtaining hard currency, where the Soviet sphere was always shafted (not maliciously, they were just bad at it).

Honestly, the communist states should have allowed free market capitalism, but one with regulations and provisions ie like every other modern state today. I have never seen socialism and capitalism as exact opposites, and the communist states were not really communist so much as they were states that believed in transitioning into communism one day.

The Soviet Union had a centrally planned economy and was ruled by a single political party that regulated itself, the only thing communist about it is that the official ideology was communism witch was used as justification for the central planning. The very fact that Lenin came up with the whole 'vanguard party' was itself a deviation from Marxism, because Marx believed capitalism was required for Socialism and then communism to happen, so he would probably say the USA was closer to communism than the Soviet Russia was.

>>3151030
I should add though that the Soviet Union did have a few lucrative exports, like eye surgery, but these were products that were niche as fuck and not bringing in dosh that could save a whole country.

>>3151030
>Mostly dictating price on the world market, which for obvious reasons the soviet sphere could never match.
why would that matter, by controlling Russia and China they had the largest reserves of litterally all precious metals (except for the ones in central Africa). Why would they need anyone else? Why did they need a market value to controll their usevalue estimates?

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>>3150950
>central planning is efficient yet.

>>3151047
A few reasons. The Soviet cost to produce was always greater than that of Western nations, which means they ran on lower profit, which was often reinvested outside these industries anyways. Secondly, they could not respond particularly effectively to changes in price. If the price of oil dropped considerably, opec nations could restrict production and weather the storm on a firms savings and other assets. The Soviets had to resign themselves to running the entire time at loss.

>>3150745
non-whites don't matter
capitalism has killed way less than communism

>>3151166
Unless you count Slavs as white communism has killed barely anyone

>>3151183

except those millions of chinamen

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>>3151191

>>3150731
it's just a mediocre system overall.

>>3151191
Not white, baka.

>>3150745
>that list
might as well add the black death and the spanish flu

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>>3151211

That is literally the most retarded thing I have ever read.

>>3150745
>>>/leftypol/
>>>/r/communism
>>>/r/socialism

>>3150731
>The best idea ever created
>Better than Capitalism in almost every way
>Can't exist because an inferior system "prevents" it from coming to be

The idea might be a bit overrated.

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>>3151300
Maoism is stupidity incanate

>>3150731

Because it is simply a dream, not reality.

>>3150745
>>3150807
>>3150839
>>3150924
>>3150995
>>3151030
>>3151036
>>3151041
>>3151099

For the sake of humanity, never reproduce and get lobotomized asap.

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>>3151316
>>3151289
>>3151166

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>>3150731
They blamed human nature on capitalism and assumed a multitude of problems would disappear if they disallowed "private ownership of the means of production", in reality it did little to solve these problems and their own system became authoritarian and corrupt.

Of course communism and similar ideologies are promoted for this reason, extremists, corrupt politicians and authoritarian regimes alike have little respect for individual rights and it benefits them from the time they are a "revolutionary" cadre extorting the locals for rice to the time they consolidate power.

>>3151361

You suffer from brain damage, seek help.

>>3151361
Why aren't you doing anything about it then if you (((care))) so much? Are you just trying to feel superior by being an edgelord contrarian with some shit fringe political belief?

>>3151361
>>3150745
you forgot the bronze age collapse and Krakatoa

>>3151166
>>>/pol/

>>3151398
>dudes literally posting leftypol menes and images
>naw nigga u said something mean about darkies gb2 /pol/

>>3151361
>Be Me
>Capitalism
>I killed all the Dinosaurs
>I was responsible for the fall of the Roman Empire
>I killed Jesus
>I started the Black Death
>Formed Islam
>I started the Mongol Empire
>Burnt Bagdad to the ground
>Destroyed the Byzantine Empire, sacked Constnobple and formed the Ottoman Empire
>I'm the reason why The Holy Roman Empire is neither "Holy, Roman, or an Empire"
>I started the Protestant Reformation
>Started the Qing Empire and ended it
>Attacked Pearl Harbor
>Print out Che T-Shirts
>Created SJWs
>Alien Invasion
>And /leftypol/
>mfw normies don't think I'm evil

>>3151166
>t. Cletus MacSmith

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>>3151410
>>3151395
>>3151388
>>3151381
Stay cucked wageslaves, sucking the porky's dick.

>>3151695
(You)

Why people think an economical and political system based on the ideas of a XIXth century German philosopher is supposed to work anyway?

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>>3151348
>REEE STOP DISCUSSING HISTORY MY MIND-NUMBING PLATITUDE IS THE REAL REASON

You should seriously consider suicide.

>>3150745
a good chunk of those things happened during feudal economics or mercantilism.

capitalism didn't really become the economic system of the west until the late victorian age.

>>3151795
You can find markets that operated in a capitalist manner before the time of Adam Smith. Capitalism existed before the name Capitalism was coined.

>>3150731

It did work. Stalin ran it like he was CEO of Russia, and it ran a profit for a while.


Socialist type organizations are the most successful in the business world too. Corporations are socialist.

>>3151695
>capitalism touched my wee wee as a child

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>>3150731
Maybe it's because your system sucks

>>3151348
The last post was arguing against the soviet union.
Are you dumb?

>>3151810
>a merchant trading for wool is responsible for a conquistador bashing an aztec 5500 miles away
still stretching a bit

>>3151810

Which different kinds of 'capitalism' are you talking about?

The thing that won the Cold War is not the thing taught in Econ 101 is not the thing you're referring to as a capitalist manner is not free trade.

>>3151398
>>>/reddit/

>>3151810
You can find markets that operate in a capitalist manner in literally any society, even the old Soviet Union and North Fucking Korea

Better add everyone that ever lived to that death toll

>>3150731
Communism is a meme and goes against basic human nature.

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>>3151254
>>3150950
>>3151348
>>3151795
>>3151861
>not true capitalism

>>3151398
4chan is pol. This is our site.

I remember when 4chan wasn't full of under-aged lefty cucks.

>>3151882

Really? When was that?

>>3151874
>troo gommunism haz neber been drieded :-DDDD

You can't run away from capital no matter how hard you try

just try to prove me wrong

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>>3151887
There is no escape from lefty cringe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3fnwk7AVaw

>>3151874
you need wealth for health, happiness, to raise a family, and to protect the environment

no one thinks that money is an end in itself

it's a medium of exchange

>>3151887
2007

>>3151887

Anyone who isn't a redpilled /pol/ memester is a leftist. Praise kek.

>>3151890
true communism is inevitable after the proletariat overthrows the system, just read "everything I say is right" by Karl Marx

>>3150745
>>3151361
>blames capitalism for stuff that happened before capitalism really existed
>blames capitalism for stuff that happens in non-capitalist societies.

ultra cringe...

>>3151820
this 10/10...liberalism is still the greatest socio-economic system ever.

>>3151919
every society that has capital (read: all societies ever) is capitalist

>>3151810
When I was 6, I traded a bag of Oreos for an orange

Does this make me responsible for Pinochet?

>>3151932
yes
if you are white then you're literally hitler too

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>>3151901
>>3151909
>>3151919
>>3151932
>Classcucks can'´t handle the true

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>>3151820
>tfw too intelligent to not be radical centrist

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>>3151810
not as a state system...history is full of little examples of capitalism or socialism all over the place but you don't get any real capitalist systems until at earliest the late 17th century (the Dutch).

>>3151913
>muh pol
You're the cancer of this site.

>>3151943
cringe

>>3151913
Pol is 4chan and 4chan is pol.
Don't like it go back to /reddit/

>>3151946
Fuck him. He just opened up an express lane for the boat niggers.

>>3151904
gg was a mistake

>>3151962
:^)

>>3151904
who would make a picture like that?

>>3151943
>I'm going to use my one recycled meme to fight Capitalism!
>That'll show em!
You're kind have been fighting a losing battle since '91, get over it.

>>3151925
you just made that up!

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>>3151969
More lefty cringe.

>>3151981
no, it's what these retards actually believe

"le the soviet union was state capitalism meme"

>>3151962

Not to fall for the bait or anything, but /pol/ changes dramatically from time to time. Just compare /pol/ before Trump was a thing, to /pol/ during the Trump campaign/early presidency, and then again to the /pol/ of now.

It feels like almost different websites.

>>3151946
march at a reasonable pace forward brother!

>>3151987
Its gone away from the "kill niggers" type of stuff I agree but it still is a shadow of what 4chan is.

>>3151983
lol didn't someone draw a picture of her getting gangbanged by that pig and pepe?

>>3151943
>hundreds of millions of people instantly drop neo-liberalism when faced with the word "cuck" and bring about a post scarcity utopia

Great job, comrade!
you can now return to your coal mine

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>>3151974
>Sieze the memes of production

>>3151995
>>3151987
remember when /pol/ was libertarian-leaning centrist and just did the fascist stuff for the memes?

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>>3151997

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>>3151946
radical centrists = the best radicals.

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>>3152004

You dare bring up furries... when criticizing the left? Do you not know?

>>3150745
>Even capitalist genocides are more efficient

How can communists compete?

>>3152005
>libertarian-leaning centrist
i don't think you know what that means. people used to support ron paul when he actually had a chance but if anything it was more "extreme" back then.

>>3152005
2014 was when everything changed. You can thank the blacklivesmatter movement and the migrant invasion of europe for that as well as the rest of the loony Social justice nonsense. People change, people get pushed.
I used to avoid pol back in 2012 because I was /leftypol/ but 2014-2015 made me woke.

>>3151911

Jesus Christ. So it was right-wing before then?

>>3152004

It worked for the people who are the wealthiest right now.

>>3152013
>>3152004
Both are cancer.

>>3152005
pol always hated niggers. Hell 4chan hates niggers, jews and sjw fag. That's always been the case.

>>3152010
>every commie grill ever

>>3152005

I remember when it was non-partisan discussion of politics. And when the fascist stuff was explicitly making fun of newfags who thought fascism was cool.

>>3152027

There are no girls on the internet.

The commies today will be the civic nationalists of tomorrow.

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>>3152005
>fascist memes

>>3152027
I mean, some actually did

But the majority was just memeing

then the retards came in

>>3152030
pol isn't facist. It's more racist.

>>3151985
>bartered with Brits and Americans for stuff they needed to industrialize
>kept a foreign capital reserve to buy other stuff they needed from international markets
>SEE! CAPITALISM!

even as a social-democrat I can't handle this level of brain damage.

>>3152038

It's more fascist than racist. Anon doesn't have a race or sex.

>>3152030
not even /new/ was like that.

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>>3152004
hehe praise kek my dudes, shadilay!

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>>3152050
Behold the "alt-left"

Well it essentially degenerated into a palace economy. And a palace economy is even more inefficient and exploitative than the mercantilistic pre-capitalistic system that the Bolsheviks were railing against.

>>3152037
You're the retard if you believe it was just "memes" even in memeing it shows what they think.

>>3152038
>pol isn't facist. It's more racist.

It used to be fascist and hard-core racist, and people used the terms alt-right and Natsoc unironically. Then the Trump train kekistan kids took over and that slowly replaced the older /pol/. Now its just a sort of low energy ebb and flow of the same ol feminism and SJWs stuff.

>>3152050
those are youtube twats.

>>3152062
since when is Richard Dawkins left?

>>3152062
terrifying isn't it?
>checks privilege

>>3152062
jesus christ getchan is a joke right? it's not real?

>>3152106
it wasn't quite as retarded in the past but yes it is very real and very embarrassing.

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>>3151961
>>3151978
>>3152002
>>3152004
>>3152010
>>3151983
>>3152062

>>3150897
see the economic calculation problem a la Von Mises

>>3150950
>keeping an economy running
I think you have a misapprehension about what economies are or how they "run." It's not like a machine that can break down and be repaired.

>>3151013
>marxist states

>>3152040
this is what I was arguing

you can't escape capital no matter how hard you try

true communism is a contradiction

>>3152145
why would you try to put yourself out of work

>>3150731
>Communism
It is stronger than ever, it just adapted and morphed into globalism.

The truth about immigration, by the numbers:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Cultural Marxist Jews Admit Organizing White Genocide

The plan to eliminate the white race:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOgkGzMdieI

Cultural Marxism in action… Political Correctness, the tip of the blade:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6c_dinY3fM

Cultural Marxism & Social Justice Explained:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqIj8C2Aek

Why are we in Decline - Cultural Marxism:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VggFao85vTs

also see

The facts about slavery in North America:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5tci36bNjg
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHa4db3hA0

Cultural Marxist Jews fund media propaganda against whites on an enormous scale:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Ojbi6lXQI

Does this sound familiar at all? (starting at 6:52)
>https://youtu.be/kPdxhLUKZYM?list=PLo0ThsDnveH5nv5TNviBrGTX9P6IrYfIe&t=412

The Holocaust:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPc899uUb-A
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgGP_evkvOk
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxpIsep4160

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>>3152170
Uncuck yourself prole

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>>3152208
>Communism=liberals
>Comunism promotes identity politics

Nice videos porky slave, DA JOOS amrite.

>>3152213
>hey bro, i'll give you $20 if you come help me assemble some IKEA furniture
*assembles it and takes it home because it's my furniture even though he paid for it and paid me to assemble it*

are these commies trolls or for real?

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>>3152242
>tread about communism
>don't expect lefty fags appear to defend their cancer ideology

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THIS IS CAPITALISM!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5s5WTeqz0w

>>3152242
for real, unfortunately

them, along with neofascist virgins, are the worst of the new special-snowflake ideologues

>>3150745
>capitalism is behind conquests!
>capitalism is behind murders!
>capitalism is behind rapes!

>>3152213
>I'm entitled to not have to hold to my agreements

love commie logic

>>3152208
>Communism = globalism
Globalism and capitalism aren't mutually exclusive.
-t. Microeconomics pro

>>3150731
I've never understood how the proposed mechanism of transition is even remotely realistic. It's why time and time again we see the vanguard method tried, because there is no way for an entire populace to rise up and seize the means of production in a functional manner. The closest you would get is anarchy and enclaves.

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>>3151810
>capitalism is trading stuff instead of the enforcement of private property by the state

>>3154424
>gommunism is when gobarment do things

>>3151810
Capitalism is the form of trade that started at the industrial revolution. Ironically if you had read Smith you would know this.

>>3150731
Capitalism is already leading to a form of it with all the automatization. It reaches a point where le capitalist meme becomes unsustainable

>>3151878
As an ex /pol/tard let me tell you that no, it isn't.

>>3152213
>Be me
>Communism
>Starts revolution in Russia with the support of Imperial Germany
>Stages a coup against the provisional government and calls it a revolution
>Starts a civil war
>Genocide the Cossacks, Anarchists, Liberals, Socialists, Peasants, and Monarchists
>Destorys Russia in the process
>Fails to invade Poland
>Had to adapt Market Socialism just to unfuck Russia
>Petty power struggles among the elite over who will succeed Lenin
>Stalin cucks Leo
>Kills all of his opposition and sends everyone to gulags
>Signs a non-aggression agreement with Nazi Germany to divide Poland, gets the Baltic Republics as well
>Germany invades
>Had to adapt Russian Nationalism in order to beat back the Germans
>Cucks Germany with the help of the capitalist west
>Divides Germany between East and West
>Nobody wanted to live in the East
>Had to build a wall to keep everyone in
>Labor unions state a revolt in East Germany
>Fucks them up with tanks
>Countless revolutions across the Warsaw Pact, Socialism with a Human Face
>Send in the tanks to keep them in line
>Communists end the civil war in China
>Goes on to kill all the sparrows
>Starts a famine
>USSR and China start to hate each other for stupid reasons, various border skirmishes
>Strange fetish for Palestine, especially in Japan
>Japanese communists bombs an airport fuck off into the mountains to kill themselves off
>Bangs shoe on table
>Invade Afghanistan
>Gets btfo by farmers supplied by the US and China
>No Bread because all of the money went into Nuclear Bombs and Tanks
>Everyone has enough, the Berlin Wall falls and so does the Iron Curtain
>Hardcore Communists try to stage a coup to prevent the USSR from liberalizing itself
>Fucks it up because the soldiers don't want to open fire on civilians
>Communism falls
>Former Communist bureaucrats become capitalist oligarchs and fuck up the Russian economy
>Communism is in the dustbin of history only kept alive by cringe memes on /his/
>mfw

>>3154564
Smith was wrong about a whole shitload of things and the starting date of Capitalism is one of them.

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>>3150731
>Any economic system, from the most basic to the most advanced needs circulation and trade
>Going against it will certainly cause inflation, supply problems, hunger, unstable powers, border invasion and all sort problems
>Let's close our doors, we only need /ourguys/, there's no way this could ever backfire.

URSS was the dumbest of all ideas.

Capitalism is based very strongly in competition, so how can a society based in co-operation EVEN COMPETE?

>>3155342
This should be screencaped and posted everywhere a commie try to vomit his propaganda.

I would do it myself but nothing is free and no one offer me money to do it.

>>3155409
>in free economies, you can't choose to cooperate

>>3155409
Co-ops exist and are abundant in America, the horrific demon of capitalism. Even ronnie raygun praised DSOPs. These are usually ignored disregarded or swept aside by communists even though it's clear Capitalism has far more power to moderate itself then communism historically has demonstrated power to moderate itself.

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>>3155490
((You))

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>>3155342
I win the bingo

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>>3155531
No, you didn't

>>3151890
But it's the truth.

>>3155560
Ah shit, add all the other strawman in this thread then.

>>3152168
That's why, IMO, it's beautiful and worth purchasing.
Accepting contradictions in your beliefs is a good first step to truly bring them forward in regard to the world.

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>>3155409
>what is cybernetic palnning economy?

Socialism is feasible now

>>3155596
I wouldn't say anything I said were strawmen considering they actually happened. Instead of posting memes that DO strawman and doesn't contribute to your arguments on why Communism isn't bad.

You should write an essay on the long term benefits of Mao's Four Pests Campaign, and why the constant power struggles within the USSR was a good thing, why the Sino-Soviet Split was beneficial, and how a bunch of Japanese teenagers went into the mountains to kill themselves Battle Royal style benefits the working class.

Can you do that?

>>3155605
Holy shit, I meant "worth pursuing". What's wrong with my head.

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>>3155615

If the workers don't first use the state apparatus to crush the bourgeois/set up the dictatorship of the proletariat , the workers will be crushed by bourgeois opportunists/social democratic traitors. This is why global revolution is necesary. China and Urss don't promoted global revolution and paid the price.

It works for 70 years.

Libertarianism, in contrast worked for 0 years because nobody was ever dumb enough to think it was a good idea.

Yet this place is filled with free-market-fixes-everything fanatics.

Strange how that works.

>>3155504
Coops in America are direct refutation of Marx's theories since the workers aren't earning more money on average than comparable employees of a private company. It literally shreds the entire concept of surplus value and alienation to pieces.

>>3155648
>It works for 70 years
What is your criteria for "worked?"

>>3155662

The USSR improved massively throughout that time. They went from a quasi agrarian economy to a space capable super power.

Moreover, everyone had housing, jobs and food, which was a massive improvement over their conditions prior to revolution.

The level of education in the USSR surpassed that of western countries in those 70 years.

>>3155615
see >>3155679

>>3155643
That doesn't really get into the meat of it. The problem with you guys is that you brush off the past and most people will just expect you to repeat the same mistakes as the "Non-Communists" did in the past.

Plus there's this weird religious dogma you have, and how similar it is to Abrahamic dogmas of Christianity and Islam. Things would be better if Marxism was listed as a religion in the same way Confucianism is.

Hell, your entire Communist end times is nearly a direct copy of the Last Judgment. The implementation of Socialism may as well be the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, which ironically enough Communism in the past has brought Death, Famine, War, and Conquest. And that "True Communism" is supposed to be Heaven.

Capitalism is your Satan, considering that everything bad in the world is caused by Capitalism and that it is the reason why nobody sees the good of your secular religion is that it's being "tricked" by Capitalism.

But I'm sure you'll just dust off this argument and either post some meme or post more dogma that doesn't explain anything and won't convert anyone that isn't already unconvinced by your poor reasoning.

If the USSR was still around today, would they have any good vidya developers? I'm extremely ignorant about how the USSR actually went about business. Could someone even try to open a game studio? Or would the state be like "Nyet! games not good for youth"

>>3155679
I guess if you count going "from fucking nothing" to "a highly dysfunctional something," then I see your point.

Of course, using the same criteria, you could say Nazism worked too.

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Threads like this should be banned by the mods since they don't contribute to anything. It always ends up becoming a pointless dick measuring contest about who is in the moral good. When in the end it doesn't matter if the USA is better than the USSR and vice versa. It's like arguing if the Russian Empire is better than the Ottoman Empire.

Every time there's a thread like this, just spam bread instead of being baited into a pointless circlejerk.

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>All this tread

>>3155757
That's some mighty fine bread

>>3155648
it only survived because the soviet planners copied the price's from capitalist countries
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAlwBVGqqZQ

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>>3150731
>Be communist state
>Everyone gets the same reward
>Remove incentive to work harder than the rest because you'll be rewarded the same anyway
>Due to the fact that everyone does the same thing ever there is no more innovation
>Economy stagnates

>Meanwhile over in the capitalist states
>Working hard and standing above the rest = more material wealth for you
>People motivated to work harder/more efficiently and get more dolla dolla
>Economy grows

>Communists will now blame the capitalist state for actively sabotaging the communist one with the simple act of moving forward

>>3151030
>Communist states can't compete on the world market

>B-but communism totally works guise

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>>3156432
>MFW

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>>3152213
>

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>>3156432
>When your oppressive outdated system built on the exploitation of workers is more progressive and fair than the system designed to replace it
GOD BLESS AMERICA

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Because of its inherently (((nihilistic))) character.

Enter, National Bolshevism: the silver bullet that will save Europe. Half-communism, half-esoteric fascism, half-AnPrim.

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>>3150745
>muh 100 quintilion redskins

>>3156472
Rare porky

>>3156432
Forgot to add the part where the desire to work harder and more efficient than the rest leads to industrial and economical innovations to make it so, which then leads to the growth of the economy.

In my defense it's 2 in the morning and I just joined this thread.

I know you guys like to circlejerk but if you actually want to know why the USSR economy stagnated there are some interesting ideas here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation

We're becoming communist regardless of your funny comics or whether you cunts like it or not. Personal passion not greed will have tp drive innovation or we can all die in stagnation as we'll deserve.

The robotics revolution will not be stopped by memes or slogans.

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>>3156520
>the Communist Party under Mikhail Gorbachev restructured (perestroika) the Soviet economy and government by introducing quasi-capitalist (Khozraschyot) and democratic (demokratizatsiya) reforms, which re-energized the Soviet Union but also inadvertently led to its dissolution in 1991 as a result of popular revolutions.

>yfw they fix communism by making it more capitalist in the first paragraph

>>3156537
the ussr didn't have a communist economy

>>3156537
>fix communism
I'm not sure you know much about Gorbachev but "fixed" is not how I would describe the Gorbachev era at all. If anything his reforms and foreign policy only let things get worse.

>>3156537
It only needed to introduce the reforms because it's economically competing with capitalist countries and its only competing with them because those countries want the communist states to stop existing and will invade if given the communist states if given the chance.

Why are communist states always dictatorships?

>>3156622
because democracy is a bourgeois illusion

>>3156622
>Impliying exist anarchist dictatorships

>>3156622
human nature >>3151371

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>>3156536
>>3155610
>>3154708
Stop fetishising technology. Magic AI god isn't going to bring you utopia, automation isn't going to save you revolution. Ironically the technology you wait also serves to mantain the established order, effectively enshrining tech bussineman as the revolutionary subject of history and reducing the masses to passive subjects that exist only to be manipulated by profit making technics.

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is communism the only ideology to be defeated by birds? Imagine unironically thinking it could actually work when it gets BTFO that easily

this >>3156688
there is going to be some pretty fucked up shit in the future like implants that inflict extreme pain and turn someone into little more than a slave and millions off drones that fly around detecting humans and ordering airstrikes making rebellion impossible

>/leftypol/ crawling out of the woodwork

Don't you have some Ukrainians to kill?

>>3156688
So you admit capitalism brings dystopia and tyranny

>>3156622
They aren't, usually they're run by cliques centered on the Politburo, sometimes with competing factions centered on the official national government (parliament vs politburo).

>>3156772
Both sides can potencially bring this future. Its scary if you think about it.

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>>3156622
>>3156432
>>3155679
>>3155643
>>3155610
>>3155369
>>3155342
Socialism has been tried, but fail because traitors and greedy bourgeois.

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>>3150731
>Is it because capitalism prevents societies from achieving communism?

Yes, by achieving wealthy, prosperous first world societies with a decent standard of living for most.

>>3156549
Those reforms were going to need to happen, but they should've been done earlier. Gorbachev was trying desperately to plug holes in a sinking ship that was already listing beyond the point of recovery. I will agree on his foreign policy, but if he decided to respond with military force to the revolutions of '89, that would've probably escalated to WW3.
>>3156622
Depends, some are dictatorships and some are lead by vanguard parties that let the power go to their heads and believe they can do no wrong. This is the main issue I have with Marxist-Leninism and why I believe every example of it is doomed to inevitable failure.

>>3156688
luddites please go

If people wanted socialist cooperatives and worked for it using their own individual efforts they could, even a country like India today has a gdp per capita higher than Britain's in the 1850s and is in the same ballpark in terms of "inequality". We have more than enough resources. It is perfectly feasible with enough effort. They would iron out all the little problems and come up with a system that works, I'm sure. Then their successful system could spread and become the norm, all without violating anyone's property rights.

However no one wants it bad enough to make the personal sacrifice. They are happy to boss others around or occupy government positions but not to get personally involved, unless of course they are blindly following orders from the "people's goodly anal tingly republic of big lubed purple dildos up the arse". That is what it boils down to. Socialists are just not good people, they lack virtues, notably their ability to take criticism and improve. They are totally brainwashed and can't think properly.

What happens when a trader on the stock market makes a mistake? They learn, fast, and try to learn new things every day, pushing through any petty foibles, all because they like money more than their ego. The socialist does not do this, for all their high minded utopian ideals they don't really care. No one has the will to implement (true) socialism or communism or anarchism or all the others.

>>3152145
But in capitalism everyone works in their own interest.

>>3156432
>le no innovation meme

Innovation would exist in communism, but rather than innovation increasing profits for those at the top, it would benefit society as a whole and we would all reap the rewards. The whole purpose of innovation is to make our lives easier, right? Under Capitalism innovation exists to increase profits only. So not only are we competing against one another, we also end up competing against machine.

>>3156495

I guess you are and anprim since math is obviously too advanced for you

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>>3150731
>Is it because capitalism prevents societies from achieving communism?
So what your basically saying is that Communism literally cannot compete.

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forced implementation of "communism" on feudal societies was bound to lead to repressive measures and a whole lot of death, you can't have a revolution without blood being spilled

the only upside to the 20th century socialist experiment was that it industrialized the two largest, backwards nations and created a expanded labor market for capitalism - allowing it to reach the next stage in its development

but i wouldn't discount communism completely, in fact it seems like even more of an possibility now than then. the ongoing "proletarianization" process: the death of the middle class, may eventually lead to a situation, esp in the event of total automation, ecological crisis etc. where a tiny class of pedophile technocrats run a globalized centrally planned system, controlling every aspect of the lives of the homogeneous property-less bugmen, ruling with a soft, almost invisible totalitarianism

>>3151695
>says the faggot the has to have his parent pay for his shit
Muh captialism is the reason i'm a fucktard

>>3157755
ah yes... communist innovation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

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>>3157728
No, capitalism is slavery to capital accumulation,

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>>3158418
>>3158340
>>3158421
you wagecucks would defend this shit.a bunch of lap dogs is what you are.

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>>3158421
>USSR
>Free education at all levels from 3 to 22yo, and longer for those capable of a PhD, or other advanced education. Government paid stipends to the students from 17 to 22 while they were receiving higher education.
> Free sports
>Free child care and early childhood development
>Free health care
>Sciences like phisics, space exploring and medicine
>Safety: pedophiles, gun and drug free neighborhoods
>Affordable public transportation
>Recycling, reusing, fixing

Capitalists ridout all this becouse not profitable, enjoy your consumeris utopia classcuck, you deserved.

>>3150731
For communism to work humanity must be perfect, so that's why it doesn't work

>>3159126
see >>3155643

>>3159057
the Soviet Union wasn't real communism :^)

>>3159143
>t. trotskyst traitor

Command economy is terribly inefficient.

>>3151211
The kuomintang should have won.

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>>3151381

>>3159178
But state planning in economy was and is very crucial in the develoment and industrialization of many capitalist countrys like Japan, South korea, and even USA (new deal). Ancaps likes to overate the effect of the market in the economy, but they fail to realise actual economy depends more of political decisions rather of a "invisible hand" and profits interests of particulars.

>>3159266
State planing and command economy (Soviet-style economy) are different things.
>but they fail to realise actual economy depends more of political decisions rather of a "invisible hand"
I don't disagree with you. But fact is Soviet system as whole was terribly inefficient after a certain time. That's why it ultimately failed.

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>>3150731
Scarcity and the lack of a pricing mechanism

>>3151932
What kind of retard trades an orange for a bag of oreos.

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>>3150745
>Extermination of Native Americans
>1492
>before Wealth of Nations was published
>Capitalsim
?????????????what???????????

>>3162280
>capitalism is when you buy and sale things.

This is your brain with leftism

>lmao lets kill all the landowner that'll surely make everyone equal!

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>>3163317
All the Comies hate farmers, period.

>>3164348
they also hate food apparently

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>>3165594
This.

Why is /leftypol/ lumping Stirner together with socialists and commies?

>>3165786
Edgy Memes see >>3151904

>>3159190
They deserved it for handing leadership to a guy like Chiang kai-shrek's

>>3151388
Why do capitalists always use this argument? What can he do that when he doesn't own the means to do so? The people who do on the grand scale refuse and that is the problem.

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>>3168072

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>>3168076

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>>3168077

>>3150731
Communism as a theory, a scientific one even according to Marx, was based on fundamentally wrong premises, most of which were widely known to be wrong even as he penned it but lingered on simply because while everyone knew that they didn't make sense no one had a working alternative model.

Secondly, Communism, when applied to reality, is supposed to do exactly what every sociialist regime in the world has been doing. People tend to ignore that huge middle step between the capitalist society and the communist one which is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. That Marx outright stated that it's main purpose was to "oppress the bourgeoise" - used in exactly the same way as when he claims that the bourgeoise oppresses the working class - is also never really mentioned. Not the fact that Marx never goes into detail on how exactly the stateless communistic society is supposed to be formed out of the DotP. Supposedly, if you just oppress people enough everything will eventually be fine.

>>3155318
>As an ex /pol/

No such thing

>>3150924
Communism is defined as the workers owning the meaning the means of production, not the state. Stalin was a state capitalist, not a communist.

>>3168272
>The distinguishing feature of Communism is not the abolition of property generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property.
>In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.
>The immediate aim of the Communist is the same as that of all the other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.

>>3168082
many socialist regimes had a huge surplus left over after military expenditures and whatever economic losses incurred by embargos, try again

>>3168082
>it's capitalism's fault Commies need massive political repression to keep people from rebelling
>The massive famines; lack of political freedoms; shortages of consumer goods; and overbearing, highly militarized state have nothing to do with it!

How did you become so delusional? Psych is &Humanities isn't it? Why don't you walk us all through the events that brought you to the point in your life where you would unironically post something like this.

>>3150897
>The only thing that staved off proper hyper-inflation was the black market and its consumption of excess roubles.
not to mention the ussr subsidizing itself with the warsaw pact nations

>>3159190
Considering the GMD's track record up until their defeat I doubt they could have done better.

If there were two words that could be use to describe Chiang's leadership during the civil war they would be incompetent and corrupt. To cover their war debts the GMD simply printed more money, and that combined with shortages of consumer goods spiraled hyperinflation incredibly out of control. Prices in July 1948 were three million times higher than in July 1937, and in 1949 the situation deteriorated even further. By late 1947 the very fabric of rural society was unraveling. In 1948 48 million people, roughly 10% of the population were refugees.

Here's a quote from a state department report to president truman evaluating Chiang's position in the spring of 1947

>the basis of the present regime's support has been the urban population: government employees and teachers, intellectuals, and business and industrial circles. At present, no one among these people has any positive feelings toward the Nanjing regime. The [GMD's] tyrannical style is causing deep hatred among liberal elements...the government officials by indulging in corrupt practices and creating every kind of obstruction have caused extreme dissatisfaction in business and industrial circles. The violent rise in prices...and the continuation of civil war is causing sounds of resentment to be heard everywhere...

source: Kai Suzanne Pepper, "The GMD-CCP Conflict 1945-1949" p. 781