What are some good sources to read more about the Scythians?

>black hair

Shit picture. Scythians were blonde, red/auburn and light browned hair. They were also mostly blue and green in eye coloration.

>>3147581

They had variations, like every other people

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the intrent

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they ate bugs from their heads as a past time

>>3147581
how the fuck would you or anyone else know this

>>3147742

Literally every first hand source about them says they were mostly blondish with light eyes, dumb sandnigger.

>>3147746

“Scythian” was a catch-all Greek term for a wide range of people, who have variously been linked to Circassian, Arab, Persian, Mongolian, and a long list of other ethnic groups. Moreover, the Greeks were pretty inconsistent with who they considered a Scythian, and it changed a lot over the centuries. So while the Scythians in Europe may very well have had lighter features, it's not certain if this is the case for the Scythians in the Near East and elsewhere.

Likewise, Tocharian mummies in western china looked Scandinavian which lends credence to theory that whites(not south European whites) originated from Central Asia and migrated to europe(celts, nords, germanics, Slavs) and china(tocharians).

>>3147761

Except the Persians themselves who called the Scythians "Sakas" also noted them for their light complexions. Scythians didn't include Caucasian tribes otherwise the Greeks wouldn't have differentiated them from the Colchicians - a Caucasian tribe.

>>3147771

>also noted them for their light complexions.

Source?

>Scythians didn't include Caucasian tribes

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The Scythians most certainly lived in the Caucasus and elsewhere; it's noted that the Scythians, along with the Medes, helped destroy the Babylonians in antiquity. The Scythians were a huge-ass Iranian tribal confederation that spanned from the Black Sea to the Indus Valley.

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>>3147787
For once, the nordcucks aren't wrong

>>3148540
>wikipedia
Any primary sources?

>>3148589

Herodotus.

>>3147787

Since whenever where the Caucasian tribes nomads?

>Scythians
>Iranians

Citation required.

>>3148841
They spoke an irannic language

>>3148589
>seriously not just following the primary sources that wiki cites

I feel sorry for you people, who can't even understand basic citation OTI

Steppe Scythians existed from the end of Srubnaya to the migration of the Jassic tribe to Hungary in the 13th century.
They didn't stay unmixed Proto-Indo-Iranian during those 2000 years. There was constant mixing with nearby non-IE people.

>>3148589
You can check the sources on the wiki yourself you idiot

>>3147431
Tamara Talbot Rice has a very good introduction on the Scythians

>>3148858

That's up in the air on whether they did or didn't. Seeing how they looked similar to tocharians of western china they likely spoke a basal tocharian language with some Iranic input.

>>3147746
Literally every first hand source is brown people calling them "light". This doesn't translate to your nazi fanfic.

>>3149008

>they likely

Autism level off the charts.

There's about a 100% chance they spoke Indo-Iranian.
Udmurt is loaded with Indo-Iranian words but no Tocharian influence.

>>3148858
>They spoke an irannic language

To the Iranians. Greeks spoke Iranian to the Iranians too.

>>3148841
Scythians were northern Iranian. That isn't controversial.

>>3149023
>Udmurt is loaded with indo-Iranian

Is there any proof to that?

>>3149022

Every source charaxtixes the Scythians like tocharians as scandanavian in looks, light hair, eyes, skins. Sorry about your shitskin dreams anon, also they aren't anyway related to mongrel persianoids.

To all the steppe specialists, were huns scythians?
I've seen the people who invaded the Roman empire called "white huns", and seen white huns called "scythian" in historical texts.
We know from the romans that the huns were shorter people, with black hair, and no facial hair. They were also apparently olive colored, whatever that means.

>>3149046
Post said sources. I've seen some, and they never talk about hair, eyes, skin, teeth, all that bullshit. They just say "light people" or "bright people", using words that would also be used on slavs for example.

>>3149048
Not much is really known. Based on our very limited evidence, it leans towards mongolian or Turkish at least in a linguistic heritage. We don't have much even there though since it looks like their "empire" used gothic as a lingua Franca.

>>3149042
The name Udmurt itself is Iranic.

But that guy's argument is stupid, seeing how we have an actual living language of Sarmatian descent and it's Iranic. I'm talking about Ossetian.

>>3149115

Ossetian is Eastern Iranian. Scythians didn't speak it when fighting Darius in Romania and Ukraine.

>>3149126
Thats because "scythians" weren't one people. It was a big black blob of unknown, and everything in it was just called scythian.

>>3149131

But the point is that Ossetians don't prove Romania wasn't West Tocharia.
Everything else does though.
Scythians were always Indo-Iranian but not always Eastern Iranian.

>>3147581
Early on Schytians might have been, but later on they mixed with East Asian mongoloids. At least the Eastern Schytians.

>. Genomic inference reveals that Scythians in the east and the west of the steppe zone can best be described as a mixture of Yamnaya-related ancestry and an East Asian component. Demographic modelling suggests independent origins for eastern and western groups with ongoing gene-flow between them, plausibly explaining the striking uniformity of their material culture.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/03/genetic-origins-and-legacy-of-scythians.html

>>3149126
>Ossetian is Eastern Iranian. Scythians didn't speak it when fighting Darius in Romania and Ukraine.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. But the Sarmatians spoke a language closely related to Scythians.

>>3147787
>Scythians most certainly lived in the Caucasus
>Scythians were a huge-ass Iranian tribal confederation that spanned from the Black Sea to the Indus Valley
You're not even trying to be consistent.

Practically every source describes them as what we would consider European in appearance and their buried remains confirm those descriptions.

>>3149030
This is purely semantic nonsense. They were Iranian in the same way as Brahmin Indians are Iranians in that their languages are closely related. It's merely a way to categorize their language.

>>3149573

Eastern Iranians came from somewhere around Afghanistan or Tajikistan to the European steppe at some point after Alexander.
The Scythian language in Romania and Ukraine would not have been closely related to Eastern Iranian, it may even have represented a basal branch of Indo-Iranian as it's the homeland and all.

>>3147787
>. The Scythians were a huge-ass Iranian tribal confederation
They were Aryan not Iranian and Modern Iranian are just Arabs LARPing as ancient Persians.

>>3149048
Pretty sure that White Huns went towards India, not Europe.

>>3149884

t. stormcuck

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>>3149884
this is nigger-tier historical analysis. You don't even know what 'Aryan' meant at that time and certainly have no idea about anything concerning modern Iran. Go back to /pol/

>>3150209
>>3150194
t. brown skinned Achmed

Actual Aryans were R1a like their Andronovo ancestors while you(Iranians) are J1(Semitic) and J2(Semitic)

>>3150560

MUH HAPLOGROUPS

Is the the stormcuck's equivalent of muh dik?

>>3150560
ANDRONOVO WASN'T

A FEW INDIVIDUALS FROM ADRONOVO WERE

Haploshits are irelevant because only a few invidivduals are tested, and you can't judge an entire ethnicity on 4-5 people

>>3150560
Haplogroups on their own don't mean much. Got any admixture data?

>>3149884
WE

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>>3150700
Andronovo people are genetically related to Corded Ware people

According to genetic study conducted by Allentoft et al. (2015), the Andronovo culture and the preceding Sintashta culture are partially derived from the Corded Ware culture, given the higher proportion of ancestry matching the earlier farmers of Europe, similar to the admixture found in the genomes of the Corded Ware population.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

>>3150746

we wuz a mix a north eurasians, european hunter gatherers, neolithic anatolian farmers and caucasus hunter gatherers

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>>3147431
Anime of course.

>>3149884
Iranian literally means aryan.

>>3149048
Read more. The white "huns" ie hephtalites looked different than actual huns, read Procopius who lived in a time when Hephtalites were a powerful empire.

Also at some point every horse people from the eurasian steppe was called by classic writers hun or scythian is a seemingly arbitrary way (or at least not consistent). Learn the difference between terms when used by primary sources and by historians.

>>3149027
What does that even attempt to mean?

>>3149050
Are slavs not white enough for you or what?

>>3149133
You're aware that tocharians were not indo-iranian, right? It's like saying that slavs were.

>>3149609
No, north indians are in the indo-iranian subgroup of the indo-european group. Scythians are in the iranian subgroup of the indo-iranian subgroup of the indo-european subgroup. This is not up to debate.

>>3151733
Iranians mean citizen of the Republic of Iran and Nothing else

Aryan is an ethnic group whose purest members are the Europeans, then the Indians

>>3151791

Tocharians originate in an early migration from the Yamna culture to Central Asia.
They have nothing to do with anything but some anon brought them up because he has some weird idea they lived in the European steppe.
They didn't, the end.

>>3151829
So when Iran was a monarchy iranians didn't exist? You're retarded

the histories by herodotus is a good start if you're looking for more contemporary historical sources, tho some of it may be exaggerated a bit.

>>3151851
Actually the scythian creation myth as explained by Herodotus screams iranic tradition with the three brothers and all that and it's probably trustworthy to some degree.

Renate Rolle's The World Of The Scythians and Otto-Maenchen Helfen's The World Of The Huns has a lot of info on the steppe nomads of antiquity.

>>3149155
I really doubt Eastern Scythians had any major Mongolic/Turkic/Hunnic admixture.

>>3149599
>their buried remains confirm those descriptions
So do they for their Parthian and Persian kin who are never as often described as being as hyperbolically "pale" or light featured as the Scythians are.

>>3152311

It's not a matter of doubt. It's a proven fact.
Although this specific admixture was more like Siberian.

Well we'll soon need a /wewuzz/ general

>>3148865
No original research on wikipedia bro. Secondary sources are the norm.

>>3151829
Euros are actually majority neolithic farmery indigenous hunter gathers (where light eye colors come from) and a small amount of steppe nigger DNA (which provided language)
They purest Aryans are probably some persian speaking groups around Central Asia

>>3153571
>Euros are actually majority neolithic farmery indigenous hunter gathers

Bruh all the yuros today came from geographic Asia, or what is today far east Europe.
Actual Europe had a fucking ice age disaster happen to it, and before civilization and trade, there was no reason to be near the Mediterranean sea.

>>3153571

>small amount of steppe DNA

But that's false.
It ranges from 25% in Basques who are sons of Celts to about 50% in the North Atlantic-Baltic region.
Only Pamiri people can compete but they are a very small group.

>>3153649

Also, the conquering Aryan tribes of Sintashta and Andronovo had admixture from Cucutei-Trypillian or Global Amphora Neolithic farmers.
This makes the concept of "pure Aryan" a joke, they were just one mixture in space and time but still similar to Northern Europeans in particular.

>>3147584
This i have brown eyes yet my country is majority blue. Does that make me historically in accurate?

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>>3147581
>>3147584
>>3149155
>>3153667
does anyone else find the pitch black hair and European features aesthetic as fuck on Scythians?

I know the Greeks describe them as red or fair haired but the Greeks describe everyone like that.

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>>3154265
>antler mask for horse
That's so fucking cool

>>3154265

That's more of a Celtic aesthetic.
Light hair and olive complexion would be a more common Scythian aesthetic since the blonde genes were frequent.

>>3154286
why would blonde hair not be frequent in northern European Celtics?
also the Romans Describe the Celts bleaching their hair with lime.

>>3154299

Look at a hair color map for present day.

>>3153468
Proven fact as in at what time and in what region? Be specific.

>>3152312
Aren't persians constantly said to be whiter/paler than greeks? At least Cyrus is considered to be fair.

>>3147431
>>3147584
>>3147607
>>3147618
>>3154265

That's some Conan the Barbarian level shit right there.

I like.

>>3153667
No, but I would probably select another guy if I was to take a photo to provide an example a [introduce your nationality]. I would only include you in a relatively big group.

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>>3154401

Pazyryks were essentially half Asian.
Contemporary Ukrainians and southern Russians about 6-10%.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615

>>3154419
Historical cimmerians were from the scythian steppe and more than likely related or part of them.

>>3154432
>Pazyryks were essentially half Asian.
But when? Sorry if it says it in the link, but it's a pretty extensive article. I'm gonna read it later when I got more free time but I would welcome a more immediate awnser.

>Contemporary Ukrainians and southern Russians about 6-10%.
Considering the massive amount of turkic migrations into the area, isn't that actually a pretty small percentage? It's smaller than the amount of blacks in the USA. For most of history the percentage was probably negligible.

>>3154465
>Considering the massive amount of turkic migrations into the area
There was never a "massive migration". I can already tell you're a mapcuck who saw a name of some tribe plastered over a part of some map, but generally the population of say, Khazaria, was smaller than a mid sized city in Francia at the time.

>>3154465

>But when?

Gradually over the late bronze age and iron age.


Turkic people were a thing in Europe starting from around 300 AD.
Before that Asian admixture was mediated by intermarriage between West and East Scythians.
It's hard to say what the role of Uralic people in all of this is.

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>>3154317
areas were the Celts occupied are high in light hair colour.The Roman Greek sources specifically mention light hair colour with celts.

Soi dont understand why you would think dark hair is specifically prevalent with Celts.
And sure we get the odd dark haired person in northern Europe but its not very prevalent as the Mediterranean.

>>3154711

Spain and France aren't.

>>3154716
compare that to Greece and Italy though.it would be noticeable to them.

>>3151809
All that means is that ancients Persians (the invading culture that is) and Scythians had common ancestors, which is pretty obvious.

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>>3149884
Local inhabitants of Zagros mountains did mix with Proto-Indo-Iranians, but this did not shift the genome that much as genetic studies showed. Here is a study comparing a Sassanid Persian of Teppe Hasanlu to modern Persians, showing how modern Iranians relate more closely to them than Europeans:

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2016/07/13/science.aaf7943.full
(check image)

Sample is from Teppe Hasanlu of a Sassanian era Persian. Persians were originally people of Zagros mountains who marginally mixed with Proto-Indo-Iranians of Sintashta culture who passed their culture down.

>>3156108

You're always spamming this.
Do you take pride in your racial purity or something? Take a break dude

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All I know is that the place would have feared far better had Alexander or Caesar ever completed their designs for Parthia and Scythia.

>>3156169
>Do you take pride in your racial purity or something?
I don't like it when people say I have no connection to my Pre-Islamic past because I'm a "rapebaby", which I am not. How would you feel if someone, who has nothing to do with your culture, tries to claim its accomplishments and be a part of its cultural framework whilst denying your connection to it?

USA is not merely against the IRI either, but it is alienating Iranian-Americans also with its unwillingness to acknowledge Persia = Iran. Reza Shah should never have changed the name because now philistines think Persia is separate from Iran. It's like Germany asking others to call it Deutschland, and then people asking what happened to Germany?

>>3156319
Note, it's been called Iran since Sassanian Empire*.

>>3156319
Dude, I'm even not white so I have no dog in this fight, but you scream insecurity. You're like those Italians who vehemently deny Arabic rape-genes, but are always betrayed by their semitic faces.

>>3156319
>How would you feel if someone, who has nothing to do with your culture, tries to claim its accomplishments and be a part of its cultural framework whilst denying your connection to it?
Feels bad man.

>>3156230
>had Alexander or Caesar ever completed their designs for Parthia and Scythia.
Elaborate?

>>3158354
Ceaser wanted to turn the Black Sea into another Roman lake. Of course, he was a retard who let every traitor have a senatorial position, so he never lived to fulfill that dream.