Nazi germany would have won the 2WW if the USA had not participed?

maybe he shouldn't of declared war on us then

literally the only time we've ever been declared on, and he got his ass kicked

>sooner or later the ussr would have fallen and the nazis wouldve invaded the isles

Can you explain to us how is this possible?

>>3141728
>Sooner or later, the ussr would have fallen
why? The USSR had more resources, more manpower, and a larger economy. When Germany failed to win in 1941 they were finished.

>>3141728
If America were clearly not going to join the Allies, I suspect Britain would have come to the table for a settled armistice. But finishing off the USSR, and launching an invasion of mainland Britain would have been beyond the capacity of German industry.

>>3141728
at this point i think ppl are ironically being wehraboos

no the 3rd reich had no chance of winning the war, maybe never, but surely not after attacking the USSR

>>3141842
>more resources
German coal production 1941-1945: 2,151 tons
Soviet coal production 1941-1945: 441.5 tons

German iron ore production 1941-1945: 98.1 tons
Soviet iron ore production 1941-1945: 45.4 tons

German steel production 1941-1945: 133.7 tons
Soviet steel production 1941-1945: 45.4 tons

German oil production 1941-1945: 62.0 tons
Soviet oil production 1941-1945: 91.3 tons
The Soviets faced severe shortages after Maikop, which produced 71.5% of their oil, was occupied in 1942.

German energy production 1941-1945: 334 billion kw
Soviet energy production 1941-1945: 147.3 billion kw

>larger economy
German GDP 1941: 1,145 billion
Soviet GDP 1941: 359 billion

I'll give you manpower, but the Germans were regularly inflicting 1:4 casualty ratios in Barbarossa and 1:2 casualty ratios in Fall Blau. Kursk/Dneipr still saw heavy losses in men and material for the Soviets, and the 1944 Belorussian operation that gets touted around so much as proof of the Red Army's superiority took place when the Western Allies had fully committed their land and air forces against Germany, and Lend Lease had shipped hundreds of thousands of Studebakers to support deep operations, millions of tires to keep them going, hundreds of thousands of miles of telephone wire and tens of thousands of radios and phones to effectively coordinate troops, hundreds of thousands of railway cars and tens of thousands of locomotives to bring supplies from the fronts to the field armies, hundreds of thousands of tons of explosive materials used to produce shells for their loved artillery, hundreds of thousands of tons of aluminum to build planes without wood, hundreds of thousands of tons of aviation fuel to keep those planes in the air, and millions of tons to feed their troops and civilians.

In short, it isn't a coincidence that the Red Army continuously put up a poor show until Lend Lease and US-led commitment really started pouring in. Take that away and the results will be a lot different.

>>3141923
>american education

im so tired of history channel muppets like you

>>3141923
The Germans were pushed back from Moscow before Land Lease was fully in place. There is no way in hell Germany could've won the Second World War.

>>>3141923

Source?

How would the Germans have defeated the USSR?

American involvement means more terrific losses in the USSR,not a complete G*rman victory

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>>3142087
Impossible.

>>3141985
Germany
>superior tech
>professional troops
>better equipment
>long and successful martial history
>hyper efficient industry

USSR
>low tech
>conscripts
>equipment, what equipment?
>all officers purged, and what martial history anyway?
>corrupted and weak industry

>>3142094
>idiot thinks its possible to occupy Russia while fighting two fronts.

Its estimated that 18 million soldiers would be required to hold the entire Soviet Union.

>>3142094
All that was meaningless when they were pushed back in Operation Typhoon

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>>3142094
>low tech
Lavochkins, Yaks, KVs, IS tanks don't exist, I guess?
>Hyper efficient industry
Lmao, if we use this anon's >>3141923 statistics on resource output, and we combine the output of airplanes, tanks and armored vehicles. The USSR outfucking produced Germany in all fields prior to lendlease even becoming a factor.
Also obligatory >>3142117

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>>3142128

>>3142094
Are you retarded?

read this
http://www.tandfonline.com.sci-hub.cc/doi/abs/10.1080/13518049408430160

>>3141780
this "america won ww2" meme has to die.
YOu did jackshit compared to other enemies, your best contribution is supplies to other factions.Just like ww1.
The real badasses out of ww2 are the guys who fought on the eastern front or in africa.
I love that americans dont even realize how heavily pro germany the whole of the US was most of the time. A giant propaganda machine lead by bongs and jewish americans changed that surprisingly quick.

Please cleetus. learn some history.

>>3142409
American did win WW2 though, if not for lend lease Britain would have capitulated and Germany could have gotten a favorable peace

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>>3142094
>Soviet
>Low tech
>German tank guns literally can't penetrate KV-1s or 2s
>Have trouble against T-34s
Nice "technology" you have there

>>3141964
>murican educashion lol
Thanks for showing who the real retard is here

>>3142684
Doesn't matter how much armor you put on your meme tank when you're using fucking flags to transmit orders among them against a fully radio equipped force.

>>3142701
Obviously it does matter when it caused Germany to make retarded shit like the Tiger II

>>3142094
>Muh german efficiency

Soviet Union easily outproduced Germany, which was made even more easymode by germany going the meme 'wunderwaffen' road

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16gWRxv_aZY&

>>3142107
Let's assume America is completely out of the picture to the point where they basically don't exist. So you've got Britain trying to make an incursion into mainland Europe fighting against the Italians, the Nazis, and whoever they can recruit from occupied territory of the entirety of Europe. On the eastern front you've got Germany vs. USSR. And in the far east you've got imperial Japan controlling probably most of China before long, anything of value in Manchuria and eastern Siberia, all of Indochina and Korea, and with a total stanglehold on the Pacific. Whether or not they had the capability of opening up a legit front on land against Russia is pretty iffy, but you also have to wonder how long Britain can hold onto North Africa and its Middle Eastern territories by itself, and who else might join the fold on the side of the Axis when the odds look so much better. Quite frankly, without American aid it seems pretty likely that Britain leave the Soviets to get fucked in exchange for Hitler leaving their territory alone.

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>>3142803
Without America around Japan would have no reason to join Germany, there would be no big naval fleet enforcing an oil embargo, it also increases the chances of Germany continuing its pro-Chinese programme

Im pretty sure we couldnt have btfo the krauts by ourselves. Then again neither could the ussr or britain.

>>3142412
How did lend lease prevent Britain from capitulating?? Britain had already been saved from invasion by the existence of its navy and producing more planes than Germany. Plus you've got the whole of the Empire behind it just waiting to be fully mobilised

>>3142811
Japan would still be taking Russian clay regardless. Russia is their biggest threat in Asia, and the UK would be their biggest threat in the Pacific. And if Germany is potentially in a position for capturing oil rich areas of MidEast, North Africa, and the Caucasus, they're going to look like an incredibly tempting ally for Japan. Maybe not the best of friends long term, but eliminating mutual threats together is reasonable.

>>3142841

Fuel for ships and ammunition for anti air, flak.

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>>3142409
Totally this, it also amazes me how muricans ignore the fact that they had funded Hitler's party back in days.

>>3142855
Couldn't they just import those things from their Empire?

>>3142863
The empire didn't produce finished goods, it provided raw materials and a dumping ground for British industrial output.

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>>3142094
>Germany
>long and successful martial history

>>3142861
We should have funded them through the whole war and let the commies and arrogant prick Brits get btfo.

>>3142692
go back to pol butthurt sharter

>Germany would have won WW2 if I was Führer
Every time.

>>3141728

Okay, so here the deal
>Hitler cucks Britain and France throughout the 30s
>gets Austria
>gets Sudetenland
>invades Poland
>then invades rest of czechoslavakia
>invades and occupies france, Brits are forced to retreat and stay on their island

So at this point, Hitler controls fucking Europe. Not only does he have all this territory, but Italy in the south is his ally, Spain on the western part is on good friendly fascist terms with him, and the soviets in the east are in a non aggression pact with him.

Then he tries to finish off the brits at this point, but his airforce gets BTFO. Then after this, he decides to invade the USSR. The USA wasnt really the turning point in him losing.

>>3142087

they cant. This is just my theory before anyone jumps down my throat, but the reason hitler had so much initial success is because he was from a hivemind death cult group. He had no value for human life so he had no problem basically zerg rushing his way to the top, and Germany had the highest population in europe at the time, while the French and British and Polish did value human life, and eventually reached their breaking point.

Then he just ran into someone who was the exact same as him, someone who had no value for human life and would just zerg rush his way to victory, but who alos had way more people at his disposal. And yeah, I know the soviets didnt just "zerg rush"

>>3142957

Germany was constantly failing to invade Britain, wasting loads of manpower and resources on trying to take the island. The way I see it that's when it all went to shit for the Nazis. They kept loosing against the Brits and the USSR was gearing for war next door waiting for them to waste their resources so they could strike and conquer Europe themselves. That eventually lead to Germany striking Russia first which ended up in failure because they were too late and had already spent too much.

At that point it was obvious Germany had no chance of recover, the USA joined in to prevent the Russians from swallowing everything all the way to France. If the Germans blitzed through England like they did with France I doubt they would've been stopped by anyone else.

> Alternate Universe
>Nazi party is not communist, but Hitler is less retarded im this timeline so he accepts Stalin into the axis.
>Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and Hirohito sign a pact.
> Stalin and Hirohito divide China into their sphere of influence
> Hitler and Stalin sign the same treaty as in our timeline
> Hitler attack France and the UK with Soviet support.
> Lebenstraum is now in France and not Slavic lands..

The biggest mistake of Hitler was attacking the soviets, the USA supported everyone anyways, and they were todo fight the japs anyways.

Gringos just diverted the German forces from defending their homeland, but, the Soviet rape storm was unleashed ar that time anyways.

>>3143150

the whole reason nazis moved east is because slavic peoples were retarded apes basically, or worse, asiatic mongrels who needed some overlord race. Under communism, it was jews, but it should be germans since that land rightfully belongs to the ancient aryan race anyway. Plus slavs are weak pushovers, but under jewish communist leadership, they possed the greatest threat to europe. Jews could mobilize these monkeys into a powerful army and invade europe to spread their poison and that shit needs to be killed in the cradle

That was their thinking

>>3143164

And they were mistaken and failed, that was their undoing.

For that reason i said, with a less retarded Hitler, an alliance with the soviets was a lógic step, Russia has a lot of manpower, use that at your favor and you can win any european war.

German tech + Soviet Manpower and resources = Axis víctory.

The Germans had no way of threatening Britain. They had failed during Barbarossa with basically no US help to the USSR. The Commonwealth and Soviet Union industrial output and manpower reserves still dwarf the Axis powers. So, no.

>>3142409
America fought in North Africa, and in addition to providing everyone else the neccesary supplies to beat germany, we orchestrated the collapse of their western front with a massive and well organized onslaught.

>>3143227
I dont honestly see Nazism and Stalinism as particularly different, if they stopped with the fear mongering and childish name-calling they probably could have gotten along and realized they had a lot of common interests.

>>3142981
Holy shit, this. It's so nice to see how someone observes, that how it was in fact the Germans who literally Zerg rushed everyone, and when that stopped working, they just lost.

>>3142094
Anyone have the military history visualized video with the one that shows the soviet union raising 850 divisions?

>>3142981

IT WAS DONE THROUGH TACTICS AND HIGH CLASS GENTLEMAN LIKE WARFARE AND ARYAN WILLPOWER UND SCHEISSE YOU UNTERMENCH

Germany would have won the 2WW

>>3142094
>superior tech
>tfw tanks are to superior to penetrate enemy tanks

>professional troops
Too bad most of them were dead within a year, meanwhile the Soviets were only losing poorly trained conscripts as opposed to experienced veterans.

>better equipment
When Operation Barbarossa was launched the Soviets had over a 3 to 1 numerical superiority in tanks and aircraft. In general the German army had a poor ratio of AFVs to soldiers throughout the war not to mention that both the US and USSR had semi-automatic rifles long before Germany.

>long and successful martial history
Name one war Germany won against a European country.

>hyper efficient industry
>tfw industry is to efficient to keep up with enemy production

>>3145025
>Name one war Germany won against a European country.
Franco-Prussian war

>>3142850
Japan wouldn't be taking shit from Russia. Not only they weren't able to, they didn't even want it.

>>3146485
Technically not Germany

Germany had an uphill battle even before the Soviets entered the picture, the fact they were able to shrek the French and Brits was a pretty surprising thing, so the fact Germany even did as well as it did was pretty unlikely. When the Soviets entered the picture Hitler had a very long shot at succeeding, and everything would have had to go perfectly for it to work, and it didn't. When the US entered the picture then Germany had basically no chance at all.

A lot of things could have gone differently to make the Axis have a better chance, but 'what-ifs' are naturally speculative: 'What if Italy was competent?', 'What if Spain had joined the Axis?', etc.

the germany troops with the japanese army would got invading the ussr

>>3141728
>set your economy around Conquest
>conquer Europe and Russia
>have nothing else to fight anymore
>economy dies
>Germany loses out in the end

>>3143277
Can you be more wrong. it's fundamentally different ideologies and societal structures. Fascism is capitalism on attack mode, got rid of any democratic limits, with big emphasis on chauvinism.

Any question more?

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Germany power

>>3147805
>URSS
Union of Republics Soviet Socialist?

>>3141923

Yes. Lend-Lease equipment did not begin arriving in large quantities until late 1943. Indeed, the bulk of it did not reach the Soviets until 1944-1945. By then, the Soviets had some significant accomplishments under their belts and were well on their way to winning the war. Accomplishments owed to nobody else's assistance:

Beat back the Germans in the Battle of Moscow (December, 1941)
Won the Battle of Stalingrad (winter, 1942-1943)
Won the Battle of Kursk (July, 1943)

Kursk was the last German strategic offensive on the Eastern Front. From that point on, Germany was continually on the defensive and in a steady retreat that ended in Berlin 2 years later. And that point had been reached by the Soviets, largely on their own.

The Allies' Lend-Lease certainly helped speed up the Red Army's advance, and the second front in 1944 helped divert significant German forces away from the Eastern Front. But by 1943 and the Red Army's victory in the Battle of Kursk, the broad outline of the war had already been defined, and Germany was well on the way towards losing the war in the East.

At the end of the day, 4 out of 5 Germans who died in the war died on the Eastern Front. Would that extra 5th German killed by the Western Allies have made a difference if thrown on the Eastern Front? It is possible, but certainly not inevitable. It is just as possible that he would have simply become additional grist for that insatiable mill.

It should also be noted that the USSR was not even a major recipient of Lend-Lease. the British got 3 times as much Lend-Lease as did the Soviets, even though their contribution to winning the war was significantly smaller than that of the Soviets.

>>3147817
>well on their way to winning the war
They had thoroughly defeated the german invasion, but without american/british material support there is no way they could have realistically invaded europe in turn

Where did my thread go?

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>>3147947
>>3147820

Where?

>>3142928
There are ways germany could have won in the eastern front
the germans of ww1 were in no hurry to reach either petrograd or moscow, and knowing the unpopularity of the central government to the outlying territories quite easily set up rump states willing to share in the task of supplying the german army. That was something that could have been easily done to the soviet union, had the war been directed by someone other than Hitler and that nazi party.
Often it's not the ground level where one loses a war, but simply political goals making ground level victory impossible in the first place.

>>3147808
ussr for latin countries. I could not tell you why it's being used in this context.

The only way to win is to turn Barbarossa into a defensive victory for Germany in 43.

Everything hinges on the year 1942,if the Axis had played their cards right up until that point, they could have forced the Soviets into a favorable peace treaty for them, in which they keep Ukraine,Baltics, and caucasus Russia.

>>3148023
lolno

>>3148023
The clash with USSR was inevitable

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>>3141728

>>3141728
They might've fought the UK and USSR to a stalemate, but then they'd have had most of central Europe to occupy, and as Afghanistan and Iraq has shown counter-insurgency just doesn't work.

>>3148023

By the end of 1941 germany was destined to lose.

While the soviets and allies could've potentially held on for long enough to draft a peace I doubt the war would've turned as decisively without US logistical support.

Russia in particular was incredibly dependant on western technology, factory tools and logistical lines to the extent that a significant amount of their airforce and the majority of their supply trucks were foreign. The amount of good the factory equipment/technology did was not really quantifiable unless someone can find an accurate depiction of soviet production before and after but i'm certain that was another decisive factor in helping the soviet union.

Without all the support a peace would've been a far better alternative to the continued war, at least in the allied front.

>>3148186
According to this:>>3142406

>In all, during the war years, the USA supplied the USSR with 38,100 metal cutting lathes, and Great Britain sent the USSR 6,500 machine tools and 104 metal presses. During the period 1941-45, 115,400 metal cutting lathes were produced in the Soviet Union, that is, 2.6 times more than were provided by Lend-Lease. In actuality, however, if you take the value of the index, then the role of Western machine tools turns out decisive - they were far more complex and valuable than the Soviet. During 1941-45 alone, industrial machines and equipment valued at 607 million dollars were supplied by the US to the USSR through Lend-Lease. At the present time, it is not possible to appraise the corresponding Soviet production in dollars, but one can presume that it must have been less than the value of Lend-Lease supplies, taking into consideration the higher quality and complexity of Western machine tools and other equipment. Some portion of the equipment, in particular, factories for the production of rolled aluminum, arrived during the concluding stage of the war and played their role not only in military efforts, but also in the restoration of the Soviet economy. Without the delivery of Western equipment, Soviet industry not only could not have increased the output of weaponry and combat equipment, but itself could not have put right the output of weaponry and combat equipment, for which the special types of rolled steel and ferro-alloys provided by the US were used.

>>3147623
They would've moved to space then

>>3148216

Thanks for pointing this out, I'll go read the link now.

>>3142701
Although the Germans now knew where they were being attacked from, they could only spot Lieutenant Kolobanov's tank, and now attempted to engage an unseen enemy. The German tanks got bogged down when they moved off the road onto the surrounding soft ground making them easy targets. Twenty-two German tanks and two towed artillery pieces were knocked out by Kolobanov's tank before it ran out of ammunition.[1] Kolobanov ordered in another KV-1, and 21 more German tanks were destroyed before the half-hour battle ended. A total of 43 German tanks had been destroyed by the five Soviet KV-1s (two more remained in reserve).

For their actions, Lieutenant Kolobanov was awarded the Order of the Red Banner and Andrej Usov was awarded the Order of Lenin.

The Soviet victory was the result of a well-planned ambush on advantageous ground and superiority of weapons. Most of the German tanks in this battle were light tanks armed with only 37 mm guns. The German tank guns had neither the range nor the power of the 76 mm main gun of a KV-1. After the battle, the crew of No. 864 counted a total of 156 hits on their tank, none of which had penetrated the armor. The narrower tracks of the German tanks caused them to become trapped in the swampy ground.

>>3141728
How Germany could win the war
>Step 1:get rid Hitler(optional but recomended)
>Step 2:Stop producing 50 fucking diferent variants of equipment
>Step 3:war first genocide later
>Step 4:win north africa first do Blitz and battale of brittain later
>Step 5:be Nice to Stalin
>Step 6:use italy like austria-hungary was used in ww1 less italian comanders more german ones
>Step 7:mass produce fighters and ground attackers fuck bombeiros
>Step 8:win the Battles of brittain
>Step 9:operation sealion
>Step 10:tell Japan to go suck a dick
>Step 11:give trotsky protection and use him for anti-stalin propaganda
>Step 12:invade the USSR
>Step 13:go for moskow and Kiev all else can wait
>Step 14:Gewinn??

>>3148247
How will you perform Operation Sealion against a naval powerhouse? Also how will you achieve all of this without the USSR intervening

>>3148247
Japan should be held on to for the invasion of Russia Germany hits east and Japan marches through china to hit Russia from the south

>>3148272
Well for one Japanese logistics were absolute dogshit, Kwantung Army was undersupplied so you'd have to sacrifice men from the Chinese front or Pacific theatre, thus making your fronts even weaker, combined with the absolutely nothing that is Eastern Russia Japan would have a hard time doing anything.
>Japanese logistics tended to collapse under pressure, as happened both in New Guinea and at Guadalcanal. Even the Centrifugal Offensive was operated on a logistical shoestring, and 14 Army in the Philippines nearly had its logistics collapse when the campaign went beyond the single month allowed for it in Japanese planning.
>When war broke out, the Japanese Navy had managed to stockpile about 6 million tons of oil. This was thought to be sufficient for the first year of war, but consumption greatly exceeded prewar projections. The Army estimated it would require 800,000 tons per year while Navy requirements were estimated at 2.5 million tons per year and civilian requirements at 1.8 million tons per year.
I don't have statistics on troop deployment but I'm certain USSR also had men deployed near the Manchuria border so good luck.

Im in the camp of believing the Germany has no chance of winning
but the soviet would be so bloodied that they have no chance for their steamrolling of Europe much later
Both countries would be superbly exhausted which will make a ripe condition for a resurgent [/spoiler]Ottoman Empire[/spoiler]

>>3148261
Stalin like Hitler just play along and get free resorces .
If you get airsperiority over the channel being a naval power house isnt going to help,not to mention the amount of u-boats Germany could field to secure the channel

>>3148290
Isnt Britain both outproducing aircraft and training more airmen

>>3148284
They may be bad at management but it's better to open 2 fronts and divide up the soviets even if the japs don't make any progress they'll weaken the Eastern front that's my take on it

>>3148290
>If you get airsperiority over the channel
Britain outproduced Germany in aircraft production and they were fighting on their home turf. Germany's fighter aircraft struggled with operational range, barely being able to reach Britain and fly back for fuel. How do you expect to win Battle of Britain? Sheer numbers? Jerries already tried that.

>>3146585
Sure counted as Germany when France decided to be cunts towards Germany after WW1.

>>3148299
We can't debate how much they'd "weaken the Eastern Front" since I don't have information on USSR army deployment with me right now, and the fact that Japan would harm herself by sending troops against the Soviet Union. Since, again, you'd have to resupply the Kwantung army (which was stripped) and you'd somehow have to deal with all of the hell that would be Russia + dealing with your other fronts that have been weakened + demands exceeding supply.

>>3148307
Not to mention you'd somehow have to resupply this Kwantung army with aforementioned logistics as it advanced and make sure it's prepared for combat, otherwise they'll die when sneezed at.

>>3148293
Yes because the german could bit get their shit toghther they had a lot of different variants of the same aircraft and they were not focoused on producing fighter aircraft because Hitler was retarded and thought the Blitz could do anything

>>3148247
>win north africa first
not happening unless you teleport a railroad in or you can keep and hold tobruk while its port capacity is increased by 4 times

>>3148324
The germans could
Make air supply more efective and send supply ships to Dara and Benghazi
Or in a more unrealistic options get Turkey to join the war

>>3142896
seriously, some days on /his/ I wish we never fought and instead just let them get buttfucked by hitler and/or stalin

>>3148350
>Make air supply more efective
Britain had aerial superiority though, and I've no clue how you'd make it more effective without aerial superiority since Stalingrad and the Demyansk pocket proved, that it won't work if you don't have aerial superiority.

>>3148350
>Make air supply more efective
even less effective than using trucks to ship fuel across a thousand kilometers
>and send supply ships to Dara and Benghazi
italians were the ones sending supply ships, 80% of supplies went to tripoli since it was the largest port by far, and even then it had to supply 25,000 tons more than its capacity to troops leading to supplies never being shipped and sitting in italian warves

>>3148383
>>3148379
>>3148350
A good read on logistics in North Africa
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a220715.pdf
>The Axis did not have access to adequate port facilities to support their forces. Capacities to sustain their efforts were rarely achieved. When convoys eventually arrived, they were at ports too far to the rear to be of any benefit,

>>3148394
Here's another one
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a348413.pdf
The Axis also didn't even have that big of a problem with losing supply ships to Allied interdiction. Between June 1940 and January 1943, the shipments that reached Africa safely amounted to 80% of vehicles, 88% of weapons and equipment, 81% of other dry cargo, 82% of fuel for German forces, and as much as 86% of other cargoes also arrived.
They just had a severe bottleneck in processing goods at ports and transporting those goods to the front that could not be overcome.

>>3147805
Why leave Azerbeijan and the oil fields to the Soviets?

>>3148458
They want to see a comeback

>>3141728
Would they have won? Possibly but unlikely. More likely they would have duked it out with the Soviets for several years and eventually made peace

>>3141728
USSR falling? lol what?
They had more men than bullets. A human wave can get a lot done when you don't care about loses too much.

>>3142094
German did have better tanks but shit man if they just sloped the damn armour. Also USSR was given trucks, guns, etc from the US and they then stole all of the tech they got like the B-29

>>3148247
>>Step 8:win the Battles of brittain
Ahaha, what a masterful insight. But I have a better strategy.
>Be Nazi Germany
>Just win that 2WW
>??
Done.

>>3148247
>Let me just meme up an Air force and kill the Brits
Tell me, how exactly you plan to do this?

>>3148223
This is not Stellaris

>>3149007
Sheer numbers, Kamerad.

>>3142724
That video is gold senpai

>>3149016
Sounds more like Rusland now.

>>3148247
>operation sealion

As yes, just use those river barges to cross the channel and cut through the largest navy on the planet.

Idiot

>>3141923
>The Soviets faced severe shortages after Maikop, which produced 71.5% of their oil, was occupied in 1942.

UM YOU CAN SOURCE THIS MATE

I cant tell if this is really good bait or OP is just THAT retarded

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>>3148621
soviets just had way more soldiers, it was never even close

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>>3151321

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>>3151408

What if Germans could fly? Would their new found super power give them the edge to win?

>>3143150
Except Germany historically and always will pose an existential threat to Russia/USSR. Thus accepting the USSR into the pact would only give the Soviets more time to plan and mobilize for their attack. Doing so would leave Germany on the defensive against a country both greater in size and industry.

>>3151513
depends on their speed, range, climb rate, etc..

It is pretty much an established consensus that the Germans were incapable of winning the war; regardless of whether the USA participated or not.

>>3148114
/thread

fucken wehraboos i swear to god

germany had better technology and army than ussr and italian army if hitler want it could helped germany

>>3152433
>italian army if hitler want it could helped germany
What?

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Definitely nazi 's army was the best army of all the world. They were very disciplined and motivated to win the war and the ussr sonner or later would fallen against the super nazy army

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>>3147624

>Can you be more wrong. it's fundamentally different ideologies and societal structures. Fascism is capitalism on attack mode, got rid of any democratic limits, with big emphasis on chauvinism.

I'm not the person who made the post you were responding to but I wanted to let you know that you are in fact wrong and that poster is right.

Fascism being some sort of aggressive imperialistic capitalism is a superficial criticism popularized by Lenin which falls apart under serious scrutiny.

Fascism and socialism are very similar to each other and can rightfully be regarded as two sides of the same coin. The academic James A Gregor has wrote several goods books explaining this. National socialism can be regarded as a variation of fascism but like fascism is still very similar to actual socialism.

Mussolini was originally a socialist Stirner-devotee who abandoned socialism and helped develop fascism in part because he began to see socialism as an anachronistic ideology that didn't offer solutions to the problems facing Italy at the time, and because the experience of WWI convinced him that when it really come down to it nationality ends up mattering to people more than class identification.

Fascism and Socialism are both ideologies that revolve around the idea of a corrupt capitalist elite exploiting the people/workers/proletariat/etc. Where they differ is in their view of the correct response. Socialism advocates overthrowing this system through trans-national class conflict whereas fascism advocates overthrowing it by uniting the classes of a nation together to all work in the interest of that nation's people.

Socialist-like views with regards to working conditions, welfare, monetary practice and banking etc have always been an integral part of fascism and national socialism and it's intellectually dishonest to discount or ignore that and to simply paint fascism as all right-wing and chauvinistic.

POL BTFO!!!

>>3146709
>What if Italy was competent?
What are you smoking? :^)

>>3148247
>step 8 win Battle of Britain
How please?

>>3155205
His argument can be found here for that: >>3148314

Could Sealion have been possible if the Germans got their hands on the Vichy fleet?

>>3156276
No. For starters, France didn't have much in the way of sealift for invasion capacity. Their battleship fleet, while stronger than Germany's, isn't anywhere near to what they need to challenge the Royal Navy. More importantly, the British control Gibraltar and Suez, and with those two corks, nothing the size of a capital ship gets out of the Mediterranean anyway, so none of it really matters.

>>3156285
I didn't really assume it'd lead to success, just Germans getting gassed on the beaches. Forgot that most of the French fleet was stuck in the Med though.

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Krauts had it coming

I know theres lot's of wehraboos in this thread and it's in no way possible the US hadnt intervened sooner or later but assuming this scenario it's likely the Brits and Germans had called peace after the germans had inevitably crshed the soviets who without the allied help in terms of supplies and such and msot of their farmland and population centers in the hands of germans would've just lost
>we just fight them from the urals
yeah sure

Germany wouldve had an awful time keeping what they got though

>>3156322
assuming this scenario happened, it's likely*

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>>3156322
But the Germans were pushed away from Moscow, taking heavy losses in manpower, equipment, and supplies, before even 5% of Lend Lease arrived. The following offensive had to be conducted along a single axis due to reduced fighting capability and strong defenses around Moscow.
Without Lend Lease the Soviets wouldn't have the logistical capability to push into Europe, but Germany never had the ability to advance beyond Moscow either. It could end in a white peace or a treaty ceding territory to Germany if they get lucky, but Astrakhan-Arkhangelsk had a 1% chance of being obtained.
And even if it was, considering the sizable industry and mining operations in the Urals, it wouldn't be unlikely for the Soviets to put up a fight from there either.

>>3156322
the only major win for the germans was Kiev, and the soviets were still in retreat mode during that fight.

The Germans failed to take Leningrad, Stalingrad, or Moscow, where the soviets made their first real stand. They failed miserably at all 3. Even if they managed to win all 3, they still had thousands of kilometers to keep going.

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>>3142409

>>3141915
Without the USSR taking up a majority of German war effort and resources how could the UK and US ever invade mainland Europe?

>>3141728
Maybe they could win if hitler stopped shitting his pants

>muh wehraboos
>muh SU did all the heavy lifting
>muh the bulk of lend and lease never arrived before 1943

Guys. Stop this strawman.

1. Without any US interference GB would have accepted a peace agreement. Hitler would have accepted GBs Colonial Empire and with Japan rampaging in the Pacific GB either focuses on them or brokers a peace deal with Japan too.

>muh GB would never accept a peace deal

Lel. How would they sustain the war effort? Without the US supplying them and Japan cutting the shipping routes GB is starving and stops outproducing Germany soon.

2. The SU only ever reached its status
as an unstoppable behemoth due to lend and lease. The stuff that reached them before 43 was mostly food and stuff that helped them kickstart their Industry.

Without allied lend and lease you have a starving SU very soon. And without
allied support you don't have that much industry to spew out t34s. And this greatly reduced Industry has to produce trucks and trains and a lot of stuff. The Soviet Industry towards the end of WW2 was highly specialised due to lend and lease.

Without the soviets would be really busy building trains and trying to substitute special machine parts.

And thats the tip of the iceberg. The Luftwaffe would concentrate its strength in the east. The soviets meanwhile recieved 50% of their high octane fuel through lend and lease.

So most realistically a ceasefire with German gains is the Outcome. The germans are stuck somewhere around their 43 frontlines while the soviets lack the Industry to achieve a logistical System that is able to support the offensives needed to push the germans back. They also have much less war material and widespread starvation.

>>3142094
>superior tech
Say hello to the british
>long and successful martial history
That the french you plebe
>hyper efficient industry
Say hello the nazi state, where everybody do what he want and nobody care about efficient gestion of ressource.
>professional troops
Not after Russian show them the Soviet Beard.
>better equipment
MAUS