Who are the Tywin Lannisters of history?

The character he was based on maybe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Neville,_16th_Earl_of_Warwick

the Anglos, as a collective entity

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Louis XI of France was one sly motherfucker. they called him the spider.

>>3134249
read the war of the roses mate, the whole series is chicken shit compared to history

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>>3134249

Apparently a lot of Martin's stuff was based on "Les Rois Maudits" by Maurice Druon. I'd say Tywin is an amalgamation of Philip the Fair and Robert de Artois.

>>3134455
This is probably the closest one. Tywin isn't just scheming, he's also notable for being personally powerful, influential, wealthy and above all, ruthless.

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>>3134433
This.

>An ominous black cloud hung over the field of Evesham on 4 August 1265 as Montfort led his army in a desperate uphill charge against superior forces, described by one chronicler as the "murder of Evesham, for battle it was none". On hearing that his son Henry had been killed, Montfort replied, "Then it is time to die." During the battle, a twelve-man squad of Edward's men had stalked the battlefield independent of Edward's main army, their sole aim being to find the earl and cut him down.

>With their defeat at Lewes still fresh in memory, the royalists fought with a strong sense of bitterness and resentment. As a result, and despite attempts to surrender, most of the baronial rebels were killed on the battlefield rather than taken prisoner and ransomed, as was the common custom and practice. In what has been referred to as "an episode of noble bloodletting unprecedented since the Conquest", Montfort's son Henry was killed first, then Simon himself lost his horse and died fighting. His body was mutilated; his head, hands, feet and testicles cut off.

>"the head of the earl of Leicester ... was severed from his body, and his testicles cut off and hung on either side of his nose"; and in such guise the head was sent to Wigmore Castle by Roger Mortimer, 1st Baron Mortimer, as a gift to his wife, Maud. His hands and feet were also cut off and sent to diverse places to enemies of his as a great mark of dishonour to the deceased.

>>3134249
Describe what defines him in few points.

>>3135001
Ruthless
Capable
Obsessed with the legacy of his family
Scheming
Gravitas

>>3135006
Such a unique character.

>>3135006
>>3135008
lol

Thats every ambitious ruler EVER.

Well he's literally based on Charles of Valois.

Although to be fair he's one of the characters GRRM changed the most.

>>3134520
Well his role in the story is that of Charles, see >>3135033

But yeah I agree his character is more similar to Philip the Fair.

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Who is the Stannis of history?

>>3135045
That one is obvious, he's based on Philip the Long, no major changes this time.

>>3134947
>That guy on the left
>This wolfhead smells bad
>Nobody here wants to talk about little iron bowl helmets
>My feet hurt
>I wish I was home, plowing my field and wife

Oswiu of Northumbria.

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>>3135045

>>3135001
He's pretty much supposed to be a perfect ruler.

>>3135109
>>3135006

>perfect ruler
>says nothing about his subjects
>says nothing about his achievements

You can't rule if you have nothing. You can't rule if your subjects hate your guts.

>>3135129
>the commonfolk hate Tywin, the one man who kept the realm together during the long reign of the Mad King

What the fuck are you on about you bandwagoning casual?

>>3135129
Most people in Westeros respected or feared him. All acknowledged him as the power behind the throne.

>>3134249
Philip of Macedonia
Sulla
Julius Caesar
Saladin
Edward I
Henry V
Oda Nobunaga
Jan Sobieski
Alexandr Suvorov
Horatio Kitchener
George Patton
Erich von Manstein

>>3135142
Problem is he couldn't raise his kids to be functional human beings, so all his work and so called legacy goes to shit in under a year. How someone so intelligent can also be so short sighted is beyond me.

>>3134249
You mean overly aggressive retards bailed out by circumstances beyond their control?

>>3135223
Probably mildly autistic or a bit of a sociopath, couldn't emphathize with his kids and just assumed they'd be as ambitious as he and share his goals

my diary desu

>>3135223
Happened to quite some people in history. Marcus Aurelius' son was a total fuckpuppet, Philip the Fair's dynasty collapsed shortly after his death because his three sons were utterly incompetent.

>>3135109
>Perfect ruler
>shitty children

A more perfect ruler is Genghis Khan.

>>3135278
>be the king of France
>all three of your sons are cuckolds
no wonder he died soon after finding out

>>3135331
Actually only Louis and Charles were cucks, Philip's wife was just an accomplice in the cucking of the other two.

>>3135355
nah she was a whore too, Philip just didn't want her to die because he would lose claim to her lands

>>3135355
Women are shit, guys. Never trust anyone and always have a back up plan.

>>3134422
What did he do?

>>3135109
I mean, have you read the books? He's very different in them

King Edward Longshanks and king Phillip the Fair. George RR Martin even says in an interview that Tywin was inspired by Edward Longshanks.

>>3135141
They hated him after he sacked King's Landing. Though probably in Lannister lands people love and see him with a point of pride.

>>3135045
Stannis is actually based on Emperor Tiberius, so yeah

>>3135060
Underrated post

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Who were the Oberyns of history? Byron? de Sade?

>>3134433
>>3134947

What is a good book on the War of the Roses?

>>3137113
dunno bout War of the Roses but -

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Terrible-King-Forging-Britain/dp/1681771330

is where i got the information about Evesham, although taken from wiki.

>>3137113
Conn Iggulden.

Game of Thrones is just the war of the roses+dragons+zombies. It is amusing how predictible shit is if know some English and Scottish history

>>3135759
For example engineer Burgundies downfall.

Why are there no shows based on the 30 year war? It seems like the kind of hipster war that people would love if they got to know it.

>>3137113

Lancaster and York by Alison Weir
Battle Royal and Blood Royal by Hugh Bicheno

>>3134275
This

>>3135078
t. Brienne

>>3136977
>succeeded Augustus with ease
>hedonist pedophile who didn't give a shit about ruling

They are nothing alike.

Stannis is more like Constantine:
>fought in a multi sided civil war
>promoted a new religion but wasn't a true believer, was more opportunistic about it
>powerful female advisor who was also something of a religous figurehead (his mother Helena)
>hated his wife
>kinslayer (Crispus)

>>3138761
GRRM directly said he's influenced by Tiberius

>Cold
>Fit
>Hates flatterers
>Frugal
>Military genius
>Not religious but obsessed with magic
>Gets shit done but people hate him because of personality

>>3135186
>Forgetting Cao Cao and Vladimir Putin

>>3138868
>Putin
FSB pls go and stay go

>>3138901
GRRM said they're kinda similar once

>>3138918
GRRM is an utter retard.

>>3138156
>Lannisters rule from Casterly Rock

Real subtle Georgie boy.

>>3138156
When will you idiots shut up with the War of the Roses meme? The books that ASOIAF is based on have nothing to do with the War of the Roses.

>>3140258
Except GRRM directly said that it's based on War of the Roses retard

>>3135001
Obsessed with restoring and preserving his family's reputation after seeing his father rule as a total pushover.
Ruthlessly pragmatic to the point of murdering nobles under the protection of guest right and having a baby murdered because he might grow up to claim the throne.
Retaliates hard against any perceived slight toward him and his family.
Holds grudges forever.
Very much a "tis better to be feared than loved" type of guy.
Nevertheless, an excellent administrator and decent military commander.

>>3135001
When Tywin was a young boy, his father was the ruler of Casterly Rock. His father was a weak man, and allowed his vassal states to ignore loans and slight his house.

When Tywin comes into power, he attempts to restore the damage his father did to their house, and as a result sends his vassals to heel.

To do this, he sends envoys to Castamere and another house Tarbeck. When they assume Tywin is the same as his father, he utterly wipes them out, and writes a song about it "The Rains of Castamere"

He becomes so feared that all he has to do to get people in line is send a singer, not an army, to play the song and let people know what happens to houses that cross him.

Later on, he becomes an excellent general, stateman, ect. During the deposing of house Targaryen, he oversees the sacking of Kings Landing and the deaths of all the living targaryens that he can get his hands on.

A Game of Thrones takes place 12 years after the sacking, and Tywin returns to the West, where he is still feared and respected due to his houses reputation (Even though the gold mines have long gone dry).

That succinct enough?

>>3140752
Because he wants to distract from his quasi-plagiarism. And you plebs just gobble it up like the braindead retards you are because you don't know anything about either history or literature.

>>3138761
>succeeded Augustus with ease
He was literally the bottom of the barrel and the last person Augustus wanted to don the purple.

>>3135278
His second son wasn't.

>>3142576
So what book did he plagiarize?

>>3145479
Les Rois Maudits

>>3145484
Looks like a pretty good series, but reading the plot synopses they don't seem very similar to Game of Thrones directly. Like, it's all courtly intrigue, but not in the way of GRRM's stuff.

>>3145819
Having read both, it's very similar, only with less shitty writing, less actual literal shitting and less dragons. In the new English translation, GURMs foreword actually goes 'this is the original ASoIaF'
Wholeheartedly recommended anyway, because Robert de Artois is awesome.

>>3145837
Yeah I think I will read them, I love good historical fiction.

>>3134249
thomas cromwell. oliver cromwell. richard iii. maybe edward iv. cosimo de' medici. edward kennedy

>>3145854
Then also check out Fortunes of France if you haven't. Similar stuff.

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>>3137113

>>3145863

Needs updating since they found Richard III and the more probable site of Bosworth.

>>3140772
sounds like stalin desu

>>3145875
yeah you're right. looks like a new edition of the book in 2015 takes into account the finding after a quick google search.

>>3145819
GRRM moved them around some, but the characters and their story arcs are extremely similar.

>>3135045
Stannis is Carlos Isidro María Borbón, brother of Fernando VII a shit king of Spain, who had only daughters, the laws of the kingdom prevented women from ruling Spain, but the king still gave the kingdom to his daughter instead of his brother the legitimate heir, so Carlos started a war to take the throne but lost it , As well as his heirs lost another 4 wars by the throne of Spain, still the successors of Carlos live today and they continue reclaiming the throne of Spain in its dynastic favor. In fact the Carlist war could also refer to another event of song of ice and fire, the dance of the dragons, where Viserys II ceded the throne of a fraudulent way to its daughter Rhaenyra instead of its son Aegon. Sorry for bad english m8

>>3134259
probably this desu
The ASOIAF seems to be most based on the War of the Roses, or so people say:
>House Lancaster == House Lannister
>House York == House Stark

>read actual historical intrigue
>actually interesting

>read fictional normie shit
>women rule everything and the bad guys have to lose or normies will get mad

Why do people read this gay fake shit? You could be reading Dune or something real and be satisfied instead of reading something from a fat pretentious impotent hobgoblin.
They don't even explain the tax policy of not-United Kingdom.

>>3148249
>>women rule everything
showfag detected

> You could be reading Dune
yes, a series where women literally rule everything

>>3148249
>read fictional normie shit
>women rule everything and the bad guys have to lose or normies will get mad
Sounds like you spend more time in front a screen than a book, showfag.

>>3148249

>the bad guys have to lose

He says, in regards to ASOIAF, a series noted for horrific things happening to the good guys and the bad guys getting away with it.

>>3148218
Two fucking French houses

>>3148505

Don't you mean 2 Viking houses?

>>3134249
Lancaster family, obviously...

>>3148511
Nope
They're branches of the Plantagenet House, which wasnt Norman but Angevin (aka French without Norse ancestry)

>>3148521

Which one, there were 4 of them?

>>3148528

>Henry II grandson of William the Conquerer
>Wasn't Norman

>>3148538

* great-grandson

>>3148538
The House didnt become Norman because one guy in it had a far off Norman ancestry)
Do you think the Habsburgs were a Spanish house too?

>>3134249
He's based on Edward Longshanks.

>>3148568

>one guy
>the start of the dynasty

>far off
>great-grandson

>>3148578
>the start of the dynasty

Are you fucking retarded?
The House of Plantagenet had existed for lmong before it took over England

>>3148585

We're talking about the Plantagenets when they were kings of England, not when they were literally who footnotes.

>>3135045
Agamemnon

Me.

>>3148538
I've done quite a bit of reading about the English kings and queens since it is very interseting but what I have read and know I would say that Henry the 1st was the first English king since his Father's conquest.

This is because Henry grew up in England and grew up as an English prince. He had a long reign and a good reign, he really did go to an effort to appease the English and to rule it as an Englishmen. Obviously he was the son of a Norman conqueror so it wasn't like he was 100% English, he was still Norman as well but he did go to the effort of trying to assimilate to English culture and the English people

>>3148590
Still doesnt change the fact that one individual with a few drop of Norman blood in the House doesnt make the House stop being Angevin and become Norman
If one dude in the Habsburg married a Polish woman, the House didnt suddenly become Polish

And anyway it wouldnt change the fact that it was a French House as Normans were basically French (both culturally and genetically) by Willima's era

>>3148609
I'd argue French to an extent, it really depended on the king at the time. >>3148607

I'd say that

William I
William II
Henry III

Were very Norman/French but kings like

Henry I
Edward I

Were not.

>>3148607
You're confusing two Henries
Henry the 1st was a Norman, not affiliated to the House Plantagenet
Henry II (son of Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou and Maltilda, daughter of Henry 1st) was an Angevin, the first King of England among the House Plantagenet

But anyway, both spoke French as native language and couldnt spout a word of English to save their life
The first real English King post-1066 was Henry V

>>3148623
Dude that is a fucking joke. I know Henry the 1st was Norman I am saying that culture wise he had a high amount of English qualities.

Without a doubt Edward the 1st was the first real English king post 1066.

>>3135045
Basil II, obviously. Except Basil was successful.

TALLEYRAND

>>3135223
Tyrion and Jamie were both genuinely good guys, though. Tywin's only mistake was not strangling Circe with her own umbilical cord.