Should Alsace be French or German?

>>3105173

It should be mine.

It should be the choice of the inhabitants of the region.

German, can't believe France got away with the fucking genocide of Germans in Elsaß-Lotharingen

>Today
French

>Pre-WW2
German

>>3105216
What's the difference between the current Alsace and pre-WW2 Alsace?

>>3105200

They did, they chose France.

>>3105173

It's on the west side of the Rhine, so it's natural French clay.

>>3105200
That's not how French politics work unfortunately...

>>3105265
That's like saying it's on the west side of the Ural, so it's natural German clay. French "natural clay" doesn't strech farther than the east of Champagne.

>>3105261
current is french majority
>inb4 muh germanic genes

>>3105291
Alsatians will always be Germanic, they might adopt French as first language or their land may get invaded by people from France, but that won't change their heritage.

>>3105173
Independent

File: 250px-Greater Switzerland.png (25KB, 250x239px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 250x239px

>>3105173
Swiss

>>3105837
God that is hideous.

>>3105837
>tfw no duck shaped country

>>3105850
kek

File: 001 (9).jpg (53KB, 654x477px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 654x477px

>>3105837

>>3105720
Franks were germanic too but left for Latin christianity. Germany, or rather Deutschland, isn't the nation of all Germanic peoples.

I believe their preference is, and has been historically been...

1. Alsatian
2. French
3. German

>>3106189
Independent Alsace's more of a joke really. Even if with the recent regional changes due to the government, there's been some talks about it. Never amounted to anything though, plus everyone and their mothers bitched about it in the country.

Though I'd say people feel French without a doubt, there is some lingering tradition - or wound would be better - dating back to the reintegration after WWI. Nothing to go "Fuck you we're our own thing now" though.

But German? That's a joke. Economical relations are all dandy but fuck me if people around think they're German, 'specially if they're second or even even third hand eyewitnesses to the consequences of German occupation.

>>3106391
I'm just saying, if you had to humor the concepts, that is the ranking as I understand them.

Though now I'm curious - How did they end up so firmly in the French sphere?

>>3105837
put burgund in there, then it is indeed aesthetic

>>3105200
And the inhabitants chose France.

>>3105266
It literally is. Unlike germs who just declare themselves the emperors of every person in the world who speaks a Germanic language and if you do you now have a moral responsibility to suck their dicks according to them.

>>3106407
Probably. I'll admit I can be a bit too autistically patriotic from time to time when it comes to that subject, really sorry 'bout that.

Got some factors in mind. Beside that's it's been French clay since 1648 or so, the Revolution was pretty well received here, so if Franco-Alsatian relations weren't secured before, it sure did after (the king also liked to fuck around with the local nobility, in favor of the peasants so it might also have played a role in all that). In more recent times, German treatment of locals during WWI and WWII (the Malgré-nous being a prime example of that) sure as hell gave a reason of not feeling anything but French.

But even if the locals are firmly in the French sphere, the government sure fucked up a lot: between the eviction of some of the population, having to forcefully make the locals learn French without some kind of transition between the languages and some religious stuff involved (Catholic Alsatians were seen as "Pro-French" while the Protestants were seen as "Pro-German"), there's still some lingering bad feelings

>>3106391
But Germany is not a monster anymore, but a Federal Democracy. I think Alsace could get more autonomy within Germany than it could ever achieve in France. In France, Alsace is part of Grand-Est now, whereas in Germany Alsace could get the status of a semi-independent country. Bavaria for example has its own dialect, flag, parliament, capital, police officers, brands too.

>>3106519
Can't say I can disagree with you on that. But still, ya can't convince like that a bunch of people who, even if they didn't experience first-hand the conditions of living under German occupation half a century ago or more, they still most likely know or knew people who've lived during those times and had a shit time. Can't also forget the national fervor and identity - even as low as it may seem nowadays.

Still. I'll admit I'm 100% butthurt about the Grand-Est shit. Hollande's government was utter shit in a lot of regards.

>>3106505
Alsace wasn't annexed in one day, but in three centuries. In the early 19th-century there were still a lot of German enclaves in Alsace and you could say it was as much French as German before the 19th-century. Alsace as whole has been French since the Napoleontic conquests. But after 1815 the German enclaves of Alsace (like Riquewihr) were not given back to Germany (German Confederation). So in fact all of Alsace was French from 1815-1871 and 1918-now.

>>3105173
It should be nuked.

>>3106568
Let's hope Macron will give it more autonomy then. I don't hope the Alsatian identity will disappear because of that.

>>3106584
Oh yeah I know. We had some enclaves such as Landau in Germany if I'm not mistaken? And vice-versa. I know that Mulhouse for example wasn't part of France until the Directoire basically threatened 'em of economical/military action against 'em.

I meant 1648 as in, a good chunk, if not, most of it was already under French control.

>>3106568
>I'll admit I'm 100% butthurt about the Grand-Est shit.
Not that anon, can you explain what happened, and why you're so mad about it? I'm a dumb American that doesn't know anything about modern Baguette, but this sounds interesting.

File: image.png (731KB, 1181x975px) Image search: [Google]

731KB, 1181x975px

>>3106611
Intereting to know about Landau and that it was conquered by Louis XIV. But the difference between Landau and those German enclaves is, that those enclaves had always been territory of the Empire, whereas Landau was conquered by France during the reign of Louis XIV for the first time. Here the empire in her latest days.

>>3105173
Alemanian
And Germany should be split up into various ethnostates

>>3106738
Germany is split up in Bundesländern already. Every bundesland has its own flag, parliament, capital, police, laws and policy. Germany is a country with no centralization, unlike almost all other countries.

>>3105173
It should belong to Sorbs, the rightful rulers!

>>3106599
Highly doubtful of that but one can hope.

>>3106622
Basically, in place of the Grand-Est, there was 3 regions: Alsace, Lorraine & Champagne-Ardenne. The governement basically merged all of 'em in one region, and with that goes representation and money from all three regions. I guess you could say it'd be similar to if the American Senate decided to merge, let's say, Georgia, South Carolina & North Carolina in one state. Local money would be spread on a much larger scale than it should be and instead of having three presidents of their own regional council, we now have one speaking for all three regions. Pretty shitty deal as I see it.

Plus Grand-Est is one stupid name if I've ever seen one.

>>3106683
Nice to know, thanks for the map mate.

>>3106599
Fuck off, federalism is cancer.