Latin America

>>3102793
Look at a physical map of that territory. Then consider the technology available at the time Latin America gained independence, the way the Spanish Empire was structured, and the way they gave independence. In short, read a fucking history book.

Each country is basically just 7 or 8 families that own everything with an appointed governor by the Spaniard king, that's why.

>>3102793
The differences between the US are much smaller than the difference between latin american countries. Mexico itself is extremely diverse. Only thing it has in common with say Peru is the language (and even there it gets derivative) and that the majority are catholic. The ethnic makeup also varies considerably between the countries, Guatemala is mostly Maya, Bolivia andean natives, Argentina mostly white, mexico mostly mixed, Dominican Republic, Cuba and Panama have significant black populations more than other latin american countries.

>>3102823
India, Indonesia, South Africa are pretty diverse too (even more so), so what.

>>3102834
India, Indonesia and South Africa got their independence in a different time, under different circumstances. Not to mention those territories were already administered as a single colony. And btw, India was initially split into India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Burma, and later on avoided further balkanization thanks to various factors.

>>3102793
What I'm more interested in is why didn't the different viceroyalties like New Granada stay together as unified nations. These places were already politically unified in a way and would've no doubt been more powerful then the myriad of nations we have now.

>>3102867
Inside the viceroyalty, some regions had more autonony than others (either by law or just de facto).

>>3102834
Indonesia and South Africa aren't remotely as diverse as latin america. Maybe India, but not if you're accounting for a the whole region. India's probably more comparable to Brazil or Mexico in terms of diverstiy.

>>3102793
Weak bait

>>3102876
Stuff like the division of New Granada seems equivalent to if America was divided among the thirteen colonies. I know that autonomy or states rights were important in America and an issue that had to be solved with a compromise, but why didn't the Latinos solve this.

Cities had commerce rivalries, for example Buenos Aires and Montevideo were competing ports. Paraguay was isolationist and self-sufficient already in colonial times. Things like that create national identities.

>same ancestory
Nope.

>same language
Yes.

>same dominant ethnic group and culture
Nope.

>>3102793
Latin America had a much more ,dare I say, "Aristocratic" foundation than the Thirteen Colonies. This meant that all the various territories were ruled much like the personal fiefs of various family lineages who had every interest in keeping things as decentralized as possible in order to preserve their power. Similar issues almost destroyed the U.S at its founding, and these problems were so much worse in Latin America that it's no wonder they never unified.

>>3103419
the UK and later France favored independences too

>>3102793
>>same ancestory

No

>>same language

Same de facto language*, not even close to being a mother tongue in any country

>>same dominant ethnic group

lel

>and culture

AYY LMAO

Also, that's Hispanic America without the USA's territories, not Latin America

>>3103762
Fucking this.

They'll be better off exterminating the natives.

>>3103762
>not even close to being a mother tongue in any country
I agree with most of your post but that right there is horse shit. If Spanish isn't the mother tongue of AT LEAST Uruguay I'll eat my fucking hat.

You don't even know what Latin America is so how is anyone meant to take your questions seriously?

>>3103828
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Languages_of_Uruguay

Im pretty sure that doesn't include the descendants of Germans and Italians who like to speak on said languages to be special and shit.

Sure, everybody understands and speaks Spanish, but a lot of people get a little bit defensive when it comes to defend their actual mother tongue.

>>3103828
I´m uruguayan, we speak spanish and a portuguese dialect in the north. I´m bilingual.

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>>3102793
Obvious b8 but

>same ancestory
No

>same language
Like Jamaica and USA or Haiti and Quebec

>same dominant ethnic group and culture
No (again). Go back to /pol/, Pedro

>for some reason 20 small weak countries instead of a single powerful one
Like Europe?

>What the fuck happened? The USA managed to unify and become strong, so why didn't these guys?
Considering your american tier assumptions, I doubt you'd be able to even understand an answer to this.

>>3103856
>>3103887
I did some research and apparently Spanish is recorded as the first language of the vast majority of the population. I'm talking 99% territory. Is there any confirmation to that or is it exaggerated?

I'm getting the hat ready in case I'm wrong. I knew about the old immigration from the 19th-20th Centuries and that there were some native languages, but I'd honestly be surprised if there were significant enough presence for it to challenge Spanish as the mother tongue there.

>>3103904
Like I said, Spanish IS the de facto language, everybody not only in Uruguay but Latin America knows it and understands it, that's not the problem. There are many populations that because of many different reasons speak another language, and in many countries those languages were suppressed because they were seen as an obstacle to the "unification" of the populations, muh Spanish unites everybody and so on.

Nobody cares about that any more, but many people is still very mad about said suppression and with the "modern" ideas of diversity and what not, more and more different groups are using their mother languages more and more and ask for said languages to be recognized.

I wouldn't say is a big issue but it is an issue (including people trying to protect muh heritage and what not).

>>3103856
Apart from places like Bolivia or native american populations (which are few), close to 0% of the population speaks anything other than spanish and a very very rough english they learned in highschool. The only people who speak other languages are old people, sons of Italian or German immigrants. I live in Argentina though so that may be it.

>>3103935
Define "many". Because I believe the people you're referring to are a pretty small bunch.

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>>3102793
>What the fuck happened?

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>>3103957
Excluding the different Amerindian groups all over the continent, I can only talk about my country, Costa Rica.

15% of the population speaks Criollo English (numbers going as low as 6 - 9% but whatever), they were one of the groups oppressed from 1936 - 1949.

Around 5% of the population speaks Italian, specifically in the South. The numbers were higher but they were one of the groups oppressed during the period mentioned above and many of their descendants are trying to "revive" the language in the country.

And of course, around 10% of the population who speaks another language which is still going ~strong and what to preserve it.

>>3103951
>Argentina

What about those Welsh guys?

>>3104014
they speak spanish

>>3103828
Isn't Uruguays native language from the natives the themselves hence the mother tongue? Spanish is a foreign language.

>>3104022
No, guarani disappeared in the late 19th century from rural areas due to public schools teaching only spanish. Portuguese persisted because proximity to Brasil.

>>3103984
Who are the most numerous/main amerindians in Costa Rica?

>>3104022
That's Paraguay

>>3102793
Every single latin american country has developed a unique cultural identity. Mexico alone is a cultural giant. The only similarity between these countries is the fact that the majority of them speak spanish, yet the many slangs, and dialects vary a lot.

>>3104040
The Bri Bri, around 20 000, then the Cabecas, around 17 000, but these two different tribes are considered members of an "alliance" so technically they are the same "tribe".

You could say the biggest one are the Ngäbe, around 200 000, but they travel constantly between CR and Panamá. Also, all these numbers differ depending on who you ask and what you consider to be a "real" Amerindian (this includes the Chibchas "laws" regarding tribe, clan and so on).

Some say there are around 100 000 Bri Bri, but that's including "mixed" ones or those who don't fill the traditional laws regarding tribe. There is a current problem with the Bri Bris, the Cabecars and the Ngäbe regarding tribe membership, and therefore, land rights.

According to the Chibcha laws, which didn't consider Europeans or Africans, a tribe is defined by your mother, therefore, if your mom is Maleku you are Maleku, if your mom is Bri Bri you are Bri Bri, your father's tribe doesn't matter on this. A clan is defined by your dad, you will always be part of your dad's clan.

The problem with clans is that they are considered your extended family, every member is your uncle, aunt, cousin, whatever, and because of this, it is incest (a very big sin in all of Chibcha mythology because of some reason, like, a very big deal) to have sexual relations or marry them. Clans usually live together, so everybody around you is a "family" member, so people had to go away and find partners. Mixing between tribes or clans wasn't an issue and was actually encouraged, but of course, some tribes were enemies and what not.

Anyway, because of this, many Amerindians who lived surrounded only by clan members HAD to mix with White, Black or Mixed people, to avoid "incest", but thanks to the law, men who had children with non Amerindian women, now had "tribeless" children, and women who mixed with not Amerindian men had non Amerindian kids who are considered "full" Indians.

>>3104079

Because of this, now you have people who is 99% Amerindian but who descends from a non Amerindian matrilineal line who is considered by some non Amerindian, and people who look 100% White or Black who is considered full Amerindian because they descend from a matrilieal Amerindian line.

Now you have them fighting all over about who is a real member of their tribe or "race", who has a right to what and what not. You need to understand that we have reservation here, so this is actually and issue.

There is this case of a man who was Bri Bri and married a Canadian woman, their children are being kicked out of the land because they are not "Bri Bri" anymore, and people who accuse them of not being Bri Bri anymore are equally mixed but their mom is Bri Bri.

Its a fucking mess, the Bri Bri don't want to live with the Ngäbe, they always fight, racism, muh tribe, the UN had to intervene and didn't do shit. A mess.

>>3104014
Patagonian welsh here. We speak spanish, we are argentinians, some more than 5 generations. The language is alive and taught but outside muh heritage it has no use.

Ps: we hate the english 10000 times more than the average argentinian

>>3104090
>>3104079
Jesus christ what a mess.

>>3104256
I'm now imagining a Welshman in Argentine uniform in the Falklands shooting at paratroopers. >"Me taid told me about you fooking bastards! I'll have a tidy swill in English blood, I will!"

>>3104378
Yeah, the worst part is that, as usual, leftists, human rights organizations, blame the government, because of course is the evil >White men government fucking the poor humble Amerindians, even the United Nations tried to blame the government. Its actually sad and funny at the same time, seeing those sheltered commies (actual ones) going there to "help" the poor indians who suffer racism and actually seeing racism for the first time.

A Bri Bri school teacher refused to give lectures to non bri bri children, a woman was killed by his Cabecar father for mixing with a "sub human" Ngäbe (you see, the Bri Bri and Cabecares used Ngäbes as Slaves back then), and there was this time the UN and some commies arrived and there were some teens with some stamps on their necks because they were being singled out from the Cabecar and Bri Bri people.

I agree in the sense that this was the government's fault, but not the recent ones, bu the one which 30 years ago or so thought it was a good idea to make those retarded reservations

>try to do something to appeal to the SJW
>literally start a race war by following the ignorant commie idea of the Amerindians being a single mass of people who dance to the sun and what not

I wont say this is a issue in the rest of the country or with the other tribes, only those three constantly fight.

>>3104387
There is a british movie about the Falklands that has a irish-argentine soldier character that kinda talks like that.

Can't remember the title now. It's just one bit though, not a principal character

>>3104411
Dealing with similar shit in the US. To use the Cherokee as an example (I'm most familiar with them, and they're a major tribe), you have near full bloods with absolutely no tribal rights because their ancestors were settlers in Arkansas or Texas somewhere when the Dawes Rolls were being compiled in Indian Territory, or they DID live in Indian Territory and chose not to enroll because "Fuck the government." On the other hand, you have people on the rolls way back when who were as little as 1/32 Cherokee, but them and all their living descendants are entitled to tribal rights. To confuse things even further, many Cherokee (and Choctaw, Chickasaw, and Creek) owned slaves. At the time of abolition, you had black folks in Indian territory speaking fluent Cherokee, with little to no understanding of English. By treaty, these ex-slaves (the so-called Cherokee Freedmen), became tribal members with full rights. Today, in Oklahoma, you can find full-bloods with no vote in the Cherokee Nation and card carrying "Indians" without a drop of Cherokee blood.

>>3104439
The problem here is that it was merely a populist decision back in the 70's. While we are a very centralized country we started, we were even more centralized back then and in the 50's is when everything started to change and to be an actual policy of decentralization. Then in the 70's the government tried to attack the issue of poverty of certain regions, and they saw the places with a big number of Amerindians.

They didn't give to shits about poor people, they just wanted something to take people's attention, so they decided to concentrate on those places and said that people there were poor because of the racism of the past governments against Amerindians. They ignored places were Black, White or mixed people were the majority, and ignored those same groups on the places they now claimed were "Indian towns".

Their solution to the problem was to create reservations, as a way of giving the Amerindians the land so they could live like they wanted... Problem, they already owned the land, with titles and the such, so what the government did was give them a symbolic cent for the property...

Many Amerindians, of course, sold what they could and left (this brings us another problem, third parties with property titles) before of the government's expropiations, but many couldn't, lost their land, and got stuck on "Indian reservations", fighting for everything. Those reservations became like time capsules, while everything around them developed they got stuck in the 70's.

This also brings us to the problem of the administration of those reservations, which has to follow their "traditions", this of course, is used by many for their fights and to steal. There was this case of an Amerindian dude who opened a motorcycle repair shop, someone who hated him reported him because that was against their traditions so he lost his shop and had to get out, sometimes people with more than 30 000 USD on savings has to leave or give it to the "council". Fuckin' shit.

>>3102793
During the wars of independence, there was some sense of a common identity among the former Spanish colonies. However, the collapse of the colonial system pretty much dismantled the previous social order and plunged most of these areas into chaos. The racial policies that had defined the Spanish caste system created a rift between creoles and lower classes, which made representative government difficult to establish. They also no longer had Spain's protectionist economic policies to shield them from competition, which allowed British and American industry to drive their economies to the ground. Costly civil wars and broken economies left most of these countries divided and dysfunctional, which didn't help the goal of establishing a pan-national state.

>>3103762
>not even close to being a mother tongue in any country
Are you stupid?

>>3102793
>crying_Bolivar.png

>>3102793
there aint no way Im teaming up with a peruvian

>>3103951
Here in the NoA a lot of people speak native languages. But only as second languages.

We however use a lot of native words mixed into Spanish.

>>3104079
>>3104090
>>3104411
>>3104439
>>3104466
This is why it's fucking retarded to treat natives as a separate group. Just fucking make them regular citizens of the country.
Let them keep their gay ass languages and traditions if they want, it's not like they are breaking any laws.

>>3102793
San Martin and Bolivar wanted all of South America and Panama to be a single US-like country, with the family of the Inca emperor as the constitutional monarch (because it was the early 1800s). And it would of worked if not for those pesky porteños.

So everyone told San Martin to fuck off, nobody could agree on anything, the British stuck their nose as usual (tho they had it stuck in since day 1 admittedly), the administrative side of the revolutionary leaders went "NUH-UH, WE WANTZ REPUBLIC", Bolivar was also told to fuck off soon after. And everything was horrible forever. The republicans also ruined everything in Mexico a few decades afterwards.

>>3104728
>This is why it's fucking retarded to treat natives as a separate group. Just fucking make them regular citizens of the country.

They are, that's not the issue, the problem is regarding their lands and poverty if they live on a reservation.

>Let them keep their gay ass languages and traditions if they want, it's not like they are breaking any laws.

Literally not a problem for anybody who is not a raging Latin American commie.

>>3104756
Having them on a reservation excludes them from being "normal" citizens. In the US they literally do not answer to the federal goverment, but rather their own goverment, and are treated as an independent nation-state that exists within the boundaries of the US.

>>3104786
>Having them on a reservation excludes them from being "normal" citizens

They don't have to live there, and I understand what you are saying, but reservations work like any other Canton of the country, but with a different "political" organization.

What I'm trying to say is that besides living there, they are no different than other citizen, but they do have a disadvantage. They don't own the land, if they do something that could be called "non traditional" they can be kicked out, if they marry someone of the wrong race their kids can't live there, and so on.

Shit nigga, this Amerindian woman who became a doctor (and was hailed as some kind of trophy by the left of the country) was kicked out of her home because becoming a doctor was against the "traditional medicine" of the Cabecar so she broke the rules and had to get out of the reservation.

I agree, reservations doesn't work, but its more complicated than that, its a mix of politics, corruption, weird religious and cultural ideas, and what not. If someone tries to abolish them and give the people there property titles, the left would probably call them "Nazis" trying to destroy their culture and heritage. You need to comprehend that the Latin American left idolizes poverty and a weird idea of what being "Amerindian" is, and I'm telling you this because this is a current discussion regarding reservations, and one of the arguments against abolishing them is that the "Indios" would then mix with everybody else and become "modern", losing their traditions like magic medicine which kills many of them every year.

>>3104820
I am fully aware of what the latin american left is like, don't worry. I'm just can't help but point out how retarded they are.

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>>3103980
This

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>>3105106

>>3103856
I am Uruguayan and a german descendant too. Spanish IS the mother tounge of the vast majority of the population.

>>3104728
>let them keep
They learn their language by their mothers. If you want them to be isolated then don't let them vote. The unique way to escape poverty is financial education and spanish language learning.

I've seen the same "let them be ignorant and be themselves" many times in the last half century. How do you think there are amerindian quechua fags that have degrees and bussinesses? They got it thanks to superior education.

>>3104820
>
Shit nigga, this Amerindian woman who became a doctor (and was hailed as some kind of trophy by the left of the country) was kicked out of her home because becoming a doctor was against the "traditional medicine" of the Cabecar so she broke the rules and had to get out of the reservation.

Are the elders, caciques or whoever rules the place simply retarded? One thing is to abuse the system for your own benefit, just classic latam behaviour (partially imported from south europe). Another very different shit is to shot at your own foot by literally antagonizing people that could bring you benefit. Everyone with some brains could see how benefical is to have this super cool doctor native woman even if it's just to show it to the lefties.

>>3105224
>get doctor to the tribe
>suddenly papa state cuts your sanitary gibs and inserts his nose on your young ones who want to become doctors too.

There is not an authentic commom european sentiment. There is not an amerindian commom sentiment.

Normal people just want gibs and don't change things.

>>3102793
SA was liberated by Bolivar and San Martín, followed by a select group of military commanders. Both had the same plan and are alleged to have known each other before the war.

Suposedly, the original plan of the south american revolutionaries was to create an ethnostate inspired from the incas. Of course, when the push came to shove the second best option choosen was a republic.

However, they failed to account that non-coastal cities where way more autonomous than the rest of the virreinato territories. Caudillos (basically warlords in peacetime) ruled supreme and wanted no leaders but themselves.

Bolivar was relatively successful and managed to keep his virreinato, which was under much closer scrutiny than the south, united.

San martín however was instantly rejected by the caudillos, the Provincias del Sur goverment (proto-argentina) refused him a proper army despite San Martín saving their collective ass, and as soon as he crossed the Andes began to fight between themselves and eventually splintered into paraguay, uruguay and other argie provinces.

Given that San martín had no political back to make Chile join the provincias del sud,he abandoned the plan and proceeded to aid any revolutionary force he found

Eventually Martín and Bolivar met in Peru, where they allegedly discussed why their plan failed. Bolivar's success in the end was also relative: Gran Colombia splintered due to internal strife

tl;dr the revolutionaries wanted to be a unified state but the caudillos won't let them

>>3103762
literally the only places where spanish is not the mother tongue is north paraguay and parts of bolivia, and that's only because guaranis where left alone for most of their history.

seriously how can gringos be so ignorant about this

>>3102793
>mexican empire

latins never do anything right, see the problems they cause when they enter functioning societies in large numbers

>>3102867
Because the collapse of the imperial government. The only country that wanted to be part of spain at the end of the napoleonic wars was mexico, but king Ferdinand was an autist with a low iq. Instead of forming a new kingdom in mexico ruled by him as emperor, he wanted to keep the system that was completely outdated.

Daily reminder that criollos and mostly spanish mestizos have culture more spanish than people in spain.

>>3105224
>Are the elders, caciques or whoever rules the place simply retarded?

There are no "elders" or kings, just an organization of corrupt faggots who want to take all the land they can for themselves and keep most of the other "indians" literally oppressed and uneducated. They saw an opportunity on that girl becoming a doctor, they could kick her out and her family, take her house and their land.

This happens all the time, football players, dudes who open a business, people who earn some money, etc. There is a ring of corruption between them and two of the commie parties her

>hey, you can't take her home because you went to Uni
>MUH TRADITIONS, THE WHITE MAN TRYING TO DESTROY OUR CULTURE
>the press of course eats this up

Then again, this only happens on the reservations of the South, where the Bri Bri, Cabecar and Ngäbe live.

>>3103856
> Charruan Languages
You didn't even bother to check their wikipedia pages, they are all extinct, no one speaks them and all Charruas were killed.

>Spanish Language, Rioplantense Spanish, Uruguayan Spanish
They are all the same, NOT different languages.

>Lunfardo
Old slang that came with the italian immigrants, you can see it today in Tango. Not many expressions have survived. IT'S (old) SLANG.

>Plautdietsch language
2000 speakers? Impressive.

> Uruguayan portugese; Portuñol
Spoken by people who live near the border, it's not a formal language by any means it just happens to take place because of the interaction with people that speak a different langauge. Happens in every single border anywhere.

>Versre
Can't believe this is listed in Wikipedia. It's part of our slang, something we do while SPEAKING SPANISH.

Some people do speak their langauge as heritage but they don't really care, it's useless here and most immigrants lost their language when they came here in only one generation.


>>3103887
You said it yourself, you live in the north.

>>3107599
We use lunfardo expressions constantly, boludo.

>>3107809
My bad, when saying old I didn't mean extinct, It's just not as prominent as it used to be, we are switching to more modern expresions fastly.
We use many words and expresions from Lunfardo but not as many as we used to and some of them were simply forgotten.
Lunfardo came to be in a time where some social classes and certain groups of our society where actively creating new slang, today new sectors of society have taken that role so no new Lunfardo.

>>3107599
>Versre
There is something like that in french, interesting i didn't it existed in spanish too.

>>3107319
You can't avoid them. That's why your race is being replaced. Get over it.

Because they are spics

>>3108573

there aren't enough spics in the world to replace the people of this country

kys

>>3107409
Reggaeton and perreo are neither spanish or culture.

>>3107389
Ferdinand was indeed the worst little shitbthat Spain ever had to suffer.

>>3108998
I believe that if it wasn't for him, or if he had accepted criollos into the government without being an autist we would have a nice catholic hemisphere full of comfy towns

>>3107389
>mexico
And Peru

Simple enough. Masonns hate catholicism and morality so they couldn't tolerate a catholic powerhouse. That is why masons planned from day 1 to destroy the hispanic monarchy,the last force of good,justice and morality on the planet.
First of all masons trained that weird old guy called Miranda,but he sucked so he achieved nothing.
After that masons waited until Napoleon chimped out 2 send 2 monkey like people (San Martin and Bolivar) to cause havoc.
As the monkey like people were total failures,masons had to restore to agent Riego. Riego with his sheer autistic brilliance lost a war on purpose and blamed everything on king Ferdinand. He forced Mexico to proclaim independence after Royalist had stomped independentists and he never send reinforcements against San Martin which would have saved Peru.
After that masons spreaded more monkey like people throughout the continent to create 23 irrelevant shitholes.
There is nothing more to the conflict

>>3108998
>>3107389
Ferdinand did nothing wrong you post masonic brainlet faggots

Anglo trandions and learnings
Same reason England is a powerhouse econmany today and Spain is shit.

>>3110494
>England is a powerhouse econmany

Spic here withsome knowledge. Argentina and chile were first of all separated by the andes mountains so you had that thing going on and to the other big viceroyalty which was lima by "the Alto Peru" which was bolivia. In that time Bolivia and Ecuador were part of Peru. So in 1810 the Argentinians opt for independence because private parties wanted to freely trade with the brits and at the same time Bolivar and San Martin who were educated in france with the ideals of the revolution come back here with the idea to liberate the colonies wich they do. Chile and Argentina are liberated separately (becausethey were separated by the andes as i mentioned) almost at the same time as colombia and venezuela and paraguay. Because PEru was the main spanish hub in south america theres not an internal movement for infdependence so it doesnt happen until san martin and bolivar realise that in order to properly secure the new states from spanish retake they need to get them out of the continent completely so they go for Peru from the north and the south which becomes independent in 1921. In the folowing years bolivar was governing peru and decides to partition it forming ecuador and bolivia because he was a massive fucking faggot. Uruguay gets independence from brazil around that time too and panama is formed in the 1900 because of American jewry. 200 years later you have different identities which have become irreconciliable in some degree with each other.

>>3102793
>small
>weak

Mexico has over 100 million people and the world's 12th largest economy.

>>3107319
>>3108958
What even is the point of these posts? People are discussing actual history yet you still have to come here with your easy /pol/ narrative. It's like you don't even want to learn.

>>3104419
He was totally real, he was a sperglord officer and had to be sent back to the mainland because he wanted to execute some british POWS and islanders.
I can´t find the name or provide a link, sorry.

>>3102793
>What the fuck happened?
Same shit as Slavs i.e. a bunch of people who are the same insisting they're different. Taco Balkans. Talkans.

>>3102823
>Argentina mostly white

>>3112477
>what are Criollos?

>>3106864
and southern mexico, and the highlands of Guatemala

>>3102793
Half of the us and canada is based on old mexico. Mexico was an empire of nation states. However the northern part seceded because of native americans in the south. And in turn tried to fight native americans into reservations as they were being pushed west and the english colonists and new englanders. However the union bought an economic system and a leverage game. Their lands were robbed. Empires are not good due to regionalism. One side will always want to take more.

>>3112477
Well, not Victorian era white, but definitely not as mestizo as the rest of Latin America. I'd say the average middle-class argie would be indistinguishable from the average euro-mediterranean

>>3103980
>>3105106
>>3105111
As a Latin American, I hate people like you.

During the XIXth century, there has been plenty of civil wars in Latin America concerning federalism and centralism. You deny our entire history, our entire agency, and just blame the U.S. for everything.

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>>3102793
In my country Dominican Republic the issues relate to the fact the "country" was really 3 nations with one highly centralized government, with each nation constantly fighting to assert dominance in a rugged, ecologically diverse country with a small population density. Because of this constant fighting and the difficulty in enforcing control, revenues were largely lost and it was difficult for capital to build until the 1880s, when the warlords were brought to heel.

>The North

Economy dominated by smallholder tobacco farmers; democratic in tradition; plugged into German, Danish and French Markets; settled by Portuguese, Canarian, French, Spaniards and Mulatto freedmen.

>The South

Oligarchic shithole dominated by an educated class of rancher barons, New Vegas Style. Debt peonage was common and peons were frequently levied like Medieval peasants to fight wars. Capital highly clustered in a small group. No middle classes to speak of. Plugged into British, American and French markets. Contained the capital however.

>The Southwest

Logger barons on the coast and smallholders frequently outside state control. De facto hill tribes formed by maroons and settlers that couldn't be controlled. Plugged into Caribbean markets.

Now usually the south and SW would just ally to keep the north from dominating; if the provinces were decentralized however, like in America then (and a parliament with a toothless president was installed) then the country could generate the wealth needed to build actual state structures.

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Because it was only one king and one overseas, also some idiot rejected the proposal of sending one prince on
on each province that would've made a country search for first mexican empire and gran Colombia

>>3115751
Nobody cares about your nigger infested shithole
>>3116297
What are you smoking?

>>3108980
So eurangutans can't do math? How am I not surprised?
>>3108958
Eurangutan extinction is near.

Incas were supeior to those dirty pestilent euchimpeans. History demonstrates it. And you can't literally mention a single point against my superior fact, you subhuman monkey.

>>3116452
You cared enough to shitpost a comment.

We can't even keep Mexico ducttaped together and you want a huge state formed from a billion and a half of clashing individuals. My city of three million people has recently been given a issue that half of the city wants to be recognized as a new municipal entity, good fucking luck uniting just my state alone.

>>3102892
Criminally underrated

>>3112473
You are a retard and unfunny.

>>3116509
Stop forcing this moronic meme, it's not funny.

>>3116452
He wrote an informative post. On a history board.
Then everyone complains about people not wanting to post good stuff.

>>3102793
>Latin America
>no Brazil, Haiti

Look up the definition of "Latin"

>>3118034
Try again with some facts, monkey. Incas were superior to europeans. History demonstrates it. Deal with it.

>>3115751
Tell me more anon, I really don't know a lot about the history of the Dominican Republic.

>>3118409
You barely can Speak english you stupid indio.
>El PeruANO thinking he is superior to anyone.
Hue.

>>3118570
And that's the last post you deserve from me, chimp. You'll get a reply when you start using your poor brainlet.

Show me facts and you'll get a cookie.

Incas were superior to europeans. History demonstrates it. Deal with it.

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>>3118632

>>3102867
This thing called Nationalism.
>>3103935
>Durr they all speak the same language
>that should mean theblike each other
>why can't we all just be friends, we really all the same, since we all speak a Colonial language forced on us

>>3118632
>Incans were so much better than Europeans
>Incans crushed by Europeans in 30 years

Duurrrr

>>3118632
>Incan education.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=693m7iCh-TE

>>3118683
Literally every battle were fought by natives against natives.
Eurangutans just backstabbed the side they were on and brought the pestilence that killed 90+% of the population.

Incas were superior to europeans. Get over it.
>>3118715
Write, monkey.

>>3119057
Why I should, you barely amuse me, your weak taunting it's becoming pretty dull. Incan didn't even know to write for example, like a lot of PeruANOS today.

>>3119472
>early bronze age
They already had an acountting and management system. Amerindians already started developing it in 2500 BC.

Meanwhile bronze age eurangutans didn't even know how to create a civilization. Try again, monkey.

>>3118564

1500s

>Started off as spiritualist chiefdoms of Natives in constant low level warfare
>Columbus comes and chimps out despite sailors scared of being surrounded 100:1
>Spanish realize guns, germs, and steel give them decisive advantages
>Spanish establish a foothold, start sugar colony and bring slaves and conquistadors. Entire Island conquered.
>Native population worn down by disease, enslavement and BLEACHING (mostly the last one since they pop up so much in DNA even when you least expect it)
>Slaves run away and revolt frequently, Spanish barely have any inland control despite increasing settler efforts, mostly from Portugal (This was during the Iberian Union)
>Competition with Cuba and limited markets in the metropole means sugar isn't profitable, and sugar production collapses. Slavery declines to a marginal practice. Keep this in mind.
>Economic realities force an economic shift towards something else. Ranching, distilling, and mining become the main economic activities

1600s

>Age of Piracy happens, Pirates frequently smuggle and trade with Santo Domingo. Smuggling includes everything from slaves to carpentry.
>Spain chimps out and goes full retard, forcibly removes the population to around Santo Domingo, killing thousands of cattle, burning hundreds of villages
>Economy is destroyed, most people move away to other settlements. What's left are the poorest and mostly Mulatto population.
>As the west is depopulated, Piracy actually increases because who knew removing settlements means your soldiers cant be stationed now
>French sweep in and make camp. French Pirates begin to build naval bases in Tortuga, forming the foundation of Haiti
>French build settlements and sugar plantations, import thousands of slaves. Many slaves run away to establish maroon communities in the border
>Meanwhile the East is a post apocalyptic mad max hellhole for the next century. Retarded Spanish monopoly laws and mercantilism cripple the economy

(1/?)

>>3119816
>>3118564

1600s Cont

>Population slowly but surely recovers, ranching reestablished as dominant economic enterprise. Population base now clustered in Southern coast. East is empty, Cibao is full of isolated hamlets.
>1697: Spain finally recognizes French control of the Eastern Third

1700s

>War of Spanish Succession: The retarded Habsburgs are finally removed; based Bourbon dynasty comes in
>Bourbon remove monopolies, allow free(er) trade, begin to invest
>Send settlers to the depopulated north and West, these settlers are largely Canarians and Andalusians
>Northern settlers are yeoman farmers, turn to tobacco as their main cash crop
>New markets established as foreign investors from France and Spain and Germany come in. Smuggling big but Spanish turn a blind eye this time.
>1775 Ordinance of Free trade now turns Spanish America into a giant free trade zone
>Colony begins to recover and thrive as goods can be sold to more than just Spain; diverse economy for the time
>Population skyrockets from 30,000 in 1730 to 150,000 in 1790. Extensive racemixing.
>1/3 of the Population is white, 1/3 Mulatto, 20% free black, and the rest slaves
>French Revolution breaks out, War of the First coalition sees Spain invaded. Cedes Santo Domingo for Freedom
>French Administration keeps things the same, respects local rights, even makes us overseas departments. People are cautious but fine.
>Haitian Revolution breaks out, mass waves of refugees from Haiti. Tell horror stories.
>Haitians under Toussaint invade. (1795)
>Toussaint keeps the east and west separate but damage is done
>Slavery abolished, replaced with de facto serfdom
>Napoleon Invades, Haitian revolution becomes guerilla warfare.
>French troops and administration relocate to Santo Domingo.
>6,000 Troops are a major burden for the population, which is beginning to shrink as people leave again in fear of war

(2/?)

>>3118564
>>3119816
>>3119870

1700s Cont

>French administration is brutal, focused on heavy taxation and semi Francification
>General in charge, Francois Marie Kerversau, is retarded and threatens to enslave the mulattoes more than once
>Dominicans begin resisting either through warfare or civil disobedience

1800s (España Boba and the Unification)

>Haitians under Dessailines attack, brutally sacking Dominican cities and committing many massacres and atrocities (1804-5)
>Dessalines repulsed by French with heavy losses however
>Britain however begins to join the fight in 1807 after the Peninsular war in Spain
>Spain launches counterattacks on Hispaniola; Criollos rise up in Revolt
>French kicked out by 1809
>Spain returns to power. The next decade is a slow economic recovery; Spain ignored the colony once again. Criollos and skilled workers pay attention to Independence wars in Latin America, bide their time to revolt as well.
>1821, time is right. Criollos kick out the Spanish Garrison, establish the Republic of Spanish Haiti.
>Some want to become a French protectorate, some want to join Haiti and some want to join Gran Colombia. Eventually the latter party wins out and emissaries are sent to Gran Colombia to join the union
>Before a response comes, Haiti chimps out because Spanish Haiti didn't immediately abolish slavery; President Boyer sends in the army to Santo Domingo and other major cities. Border towns receive the Haitians with fanfare due to promises of abolition and donated lands by the state
>Haiti conquers the east with minimal fighting, as the government realizes they cannot win. Boyer promptly ignores his promises and focuses on shoring up support for his regime's enforcer caste, the Haitian Gentry/Military

3/?

>>3118564
>>3119975

The Unification

>Slavery is replaced with serfdom and the population is conscripted to do forced labor for cash crops to pay Haiti's debt except now the mulattoes are in serfdom.
>Dominican provinces are doled out to Haitian generals who rule them as their fiefs. Rule of law decreases.
>Use of Spanish in legal matters is banned. Church land is confiscated and doled out to the Haitian gentry/military class. Taxes are raised. Criollos are barred from power. Whites overall banned from owning land.
>Military service was imposed, and populations were often levied into service
>Many traditional customs were suppressed in an attempt to Haitianize the population
>Freed slaves from America and other places were settled in DR to "blacken" the population
>Haitian rule pisses everyone off. Rich cannot have influence, poor are now pressed into serfdom or the military, and the middle classes cannot trade without heavy taxation or access their international markets
>1844 they revolt under the leadership of Liberal Trinitario secret society

First Republic (1844-61)

>Haitian garrisons massacred and kicked out
>Government formed under a liberal constitution, but army is controlled by large landowners who used private armies of peons
>War continues, Dominicans repel every attempt for Haiti to invade.
>Trinitarios coup'd by Pedro Santana, the first Caudillo. Battle between Northern Yeoman and Southern Oligarchs begin
>Next 15 years see constant shifts, coup's and infighting as North and South, basically two different countries
>Haiti repeatedly invades too, allowing landowners to militarize their peons and sharpen their fighting skills ala French Knights in the Middle Ages. Last invasion was in 1859
>Some Caudillos want to sell the country to outside powers because of fear of Haitians or for greed.
>Due to overwhelming war debt (hard to collect taxes), eventually Pedro Santana requests Spain to come back. They agree

4/?

>>3118683
>>3118647
>>3118715
actual peruvian here, that guy is a troll, NO ONE actually believes the incas were superior not even the hardcore leftists
that guy is probably chilean

>>3103951
13% of people in Peru speak an indigenous language;Quechua.

>>3120095
>>3118564

Jesus this is becoming a lot. I'll stop at 1900 since the thread asks mainly about state formation and successes.

Spanish Rule (1861-5)

>Spanish assert rule
>Remove locals from government; ignore local legal treaties and properties
>Impose heavy labor taxes
>Threaten to enslave population
>Southern Oligarchs have power base destroyed in the war
>Population revolts, guerrilla warfare kicks the Spanish out in 1865. War is brutal, economy destroyed again.

Second Republic (1865-1900)

>New government is bankrupt
>Guerilla bands become bandits and warlords
>Southern Oligarchs crushed but warlords everywhere
>1870s sees large scale private economic growth but weak state structures
>Cubans flee en masse to DR during the 10 years war, other peoples begin to migrate
>War is low level but constant
>Eventually country united under president Luperon
>Luperon builds a modern state structure, begins cultivation of sugar in large scale for the first time in centuries
>Lilis, his successor takes over and established a patronage based, authoritarian regime
>Mass infrastructure built and the country is welded together through economics
>Unfortunately his patronage means plenty of debt is racked up
>Assassinated in 1899, with the country finally a country and with major cities but as massive amount of debt, that is eventually purchased by US based investors.

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>>3102793
>same dominant ethnic group and culture
>this is what burgers actually believe

I dare you to study spanish and try to understand a chilean. Protip: you can't.

>>3120142
>>3120095
>>3119975
>>3119870
>>3119816
neato

>>3102793
US revolution had too few skilled generals, but managed to muddle through with Washington Cunctator and some help . What we did have was a plehtora of practical political thinkers for knocking a nation together.

In South America, they had several decent generals, but few political thinkers. And excess of good generals means you have an excess of guys who are capable of carving out their own little country if they don't like how the post-war world is coming together or if they are just ambitious.

>>3112902
Nigga southern Mexico is mostly spanish speakers. People speak other languages but they don't do it on a regular basis.

>>3118017
He's not entirely wrong.

>>3119816
>>3119870
>>3119975
>>3120095
Is the fact the Caribbean in general is the shittiest place in America really just due to the high amount of slaves?

>>3121936
Its more sugar killed so many people it required constant slave importation

>>3102793

Because people hungry of power

>The ones who wanted independence were criollos (descendant of spanish wealth men who wanted the money and lands for themselves)
>Natives wanted to remain in Spain (they were protected by Spanish law)
>After independence criollos fight between themselves for power
>Great Colombia didn't remain for that reason
>Central America unified country didn't remain for that reason
>Peru-Bolivia unified country didn't remain for that reason
>Uruguay and Paraguay in Argentina didn't remain for that reason

In resume: everything was going well when Spain was in charge (there was one german folk who was in Mexico City in 1800 and said science and way of life were way better than in Europe). After Independence War, shit went down with the new people in power

>>3122613
Well, it was relatively peaceful for everyone until the independence wars, apart of some Anglo, Dutch, French or agressive indian tribes atacks, and even then very localized. Spain also tried to improve the live of the natives, sending expeditions with vacines and stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balmis_Expedition
for example, or funded plenty of universities and colleges.
We Spaniards have a very bad rep specially for the first wave, but we really send the worst at a suicide venture with Colon (more than half his men were jail birds for example, literally pulled out of the dead row in some cases), or adventurer men at arms with more or less military training (Pizarro at first only had three men than were true soldiers, counting himself), later it was more a continuation of the feudal system with native dinamics of power changing heads to ease the conquest, Spain still had a reconquest mindset but over time it wasn't worse than Europe, and some parts much better.
Lots of stuff was made and the early Borbon Kings weren't that bad, but all the Spanish sphere had the bad luck than the most incompetent pair of Monarchs put they fat ass in the Spanish throne in the Napy era. Heck, Spain had a modern army well drilled and equiped, but the fucking Godoy hogged the military and other funds and put his cronies and boot lickers in charge of the army, puting to exile or never promoting the gifted officials than didn't bow to him and letting the army descend from a respectable force to a jock, where the cavalry didn't have enough horses and the ships were half rotten.

>>3121895

Unfunny retards can be partially correct from time to time.

>>3120142
Np, I liked it, for things like this is why I come here, good job anon.

>>3120117
[spoiler]Es lo que pense yo, un Ecuata, Boliviano o algo intentando trollear, los pocos Peruanos que eh conocido son bastante majos y humildes, cocinan bien y tal (aunque los imis son solo un poco mejores que otros grupos y conozco bastantes casos de malas experiencias, especialmente con Peruanas), pero si quieres hacerle bulling a Peru es bastante facil, casi como pegarle a un cachorro.[/spoiler]

>>3102793
Impossible. No. Latinos are inferior. They are extremely violent, loud, impolite, uncivilized, they throw trash in the streets, are easily corruptible, they have no sense of community, loyalty, duty, they are extremely promiscuous, all they think about is sex, they have no culture or humanity, latinos are to Americans as Americans are to Europeans and man, Americans are really fucking stupid by themselves. Latin America is a worthless piece of shit continent that is only good for actual countries (US, Europe, China, Japan, etc) to sell their good and make a profit out of their stupidity and general lack of ability to maintain a decent society that does not descend into political coups every 3 or so years with extremely high rates of theft, murder, rape etc. Before you call me a dumb racist or anything I am saying this as someone who has lived in different places of LatAm for almost two decades. I swear I am not even from /pol/ but seriously there's something really wrong with these people. They have homicide and rape rates far higher than sub-Saharan Africa. It's a frankly disgusting experience to live there.

>>3104419
Iluminados por el Fuego?

>>3104439
1/32 card carrying Cherokee here

>>3123500
Incas were superior to europeans though.

>>3102882
Nigga india has dozens of regional language. At least latin American countries have just spanish and portuguese, and either hispanic or black, all who have the same national identity within their countries

>>3120117
Try again with some facts, mongrel.

This fact will never ever dissapear: Amerindians reached America 15000 years after eurangutans settled on yurop.

Incas were superior to europeans and you cannot prove your superior wrong, eurangutan mongrel.
>>3123496
Mongrel, try using your eurangutan brainlet and quote a fact next time hehe

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Why the fuck this shit collapsed?

>>3124210
The UCSA collapsed because of the events.txt and defines.lua files

>>3124210
By accident mostly. Liberal party lost an election, but the Conservative party candidate died before inarguation leadong to a Liberal coup which caused civil war.

>>3123500
Youre mixing latin america monkeys with the south cone, my city has a very low murder rate and half of it is done by congolombian inmigrants.

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>>3124494
Don't give me that pathetic piece of shit. Even in the cities with the least criminality and highest standards of living of Latin America, you're still very well below even the worst of Eastern European standards. You're all the fucking same. Shut up and die uncivilized monkey. I hope you don't have kids. You're a virus of mankind.

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>>3103812
El Salvador has tried this, the fuckers are tougher than you think.

>t. great grandpa was a featherneck in El Salvador who knocked up a Basque broad

>>3124569
Did i even say that i believe myself better than europeans?
You have some issues mate, good luck with the muslim ivasion though. Your race will dissapear and theres nothing you can do about it.

>>3103812
Eurangutan and nigger mongrels are the one killing everyone.

Incas were superior to europeans. Deal with it, euchimpean subhuman.

I can't wait for the rise of Latin Hittler or something. This region has a lot of untapped autism power and resources, we just need a firm iron boot that isn't corrupt or incompetent as shit to kick it into action.

>>3123500
That's mostly just the Caribbean. At least for the extremely violent, loud, impolite and uncivilized part. Everything else does apply to the region in general.

>>3124494
you're not white

>>3125905
i never said that, what i was triying to say is that the south cone (except the south of brasil imo) has a different culture than the rest of latin america.
I say this because i worked for 4 years as a receptionist in a hotel and traveled a lot. Of course theres thrash here like in everywhere else but the quality of life here is a lot better than the rest of latin america.

>>3103980
>>3105106
>>3105111
Ah yes. The whole blame big bad America for al your problems game.

>>3126054
Blame the left.

>>3126062
Blame the jews.

>>3103812
The natives aren't really the problem. Chile is doing better than Argentina despite being much less white. The problem is a crappy tradition of government inherited from Spain (which, surprise surprise, also failed to develop compared to the Anglos, France, and Germany.

>>3126287
Nobody cares about what you think traitor. Go lick some more anglo ass.

>>3125985
>i never said that, what i was triying to say is that the south cone (except the south of brasil imo) has a different culture than the rest of latin america.
Man, you guys are such snobs. Chile and Peru, for example, aren't that that different. But oh no, you guys need to feel good about yourselves so you try to talk bad about us to look cool. Man, you should just be happy with your identity as Latino instead of sucking euro dick. We Peruvians are proud of our Inca heritage.

>>3126293
>Nobody cares about what you think traitor.
Sorry, I thought this was a board for discussing facts. The truth may hurt your feelings, but accepting reality is healthy. Go look at Chile vs. Argentina economic statistics if you don't believe me. White superiority is not a sure thing, and if you believe that you're superior for being white you'll just end up lazy and mediocre, like Argentinian people.

>>3126293
>Argentino calling anyone a traitor
kek