What's the oldest known religion?

magical thinking goes back well into prehistory, but the egyptian religion is probably the oldest one we have a full understanding of because it only went extinct in the 5th century AD, its well over 5000 years old.

I hate to break it to you anon, but as a student of history I've come to the conclusion that there is no true religion. All of man's religions were created by men as a means to explain the world and stave off existential dread.

Probably some shamans or something in mesopotamia are the first or among the first to have gods. Reminder that religion is for people who are too afraid to accept death *tips fedora*

>>3099877
Animism

>>3099900
>Fedora
>What is Buddhism
I'm sure there are other religions that don't have afterlives as well.
Deism, maybe? Einstein believed in a god but not an afterlife.

>>3099877

Hinduism obviously.

>>3099877
Ancestor worship

>novelty
Fuck off, child
>derivative
It's an off-shoot of Judaism you stupid fuck, of course it's derivative.

Neopagans need to be chopped down with their forests.
>>3099898
Historians are irrelevant retards with no understanding of religion.

>>3099915
Buddhism just addresses it through you can't die because you don't exist.

>>3099900
>Reminder that religion is for people who are too afraid to accept death *tips fedora*
I think the ancient Jews who believed they were all going to Sheol whether they were good or not would have been more comforted to believe in the lack of existence after death.

>>3099877
Islam is the oldest religion in the world.

>>3100046

Not even twice as old as Christianity

>>3099877
Sumerian polytheism

There are no, "oldest" religions. Religions come and go in a cycle. Hinduism and similar forms of paganism are meant for the Satya Yuga because those are the most spiritual religions and therefore belong in the most spiritual age, but Hinduism is the only religion that does not die. If you need proof for this, look how India has seen countless waves of invaders yet Hinduism has always remained, even when other Vedic religions were more popular. Also it's the oldest known religion, and goes back well before written record.

Other religions like Christianity are also meant for specific spiritual ages, but they ultimately fade and die. The Kali Yuga is when they are formed and they fade out somewhere in the Dwapara Yuga and then go extinct somewhere in the Treta Yuga, most likely. Religions like Christianity are needed in these ages because the people of these ages are not spiritually inclined. They need a boost to be spiritual. They need a strict religion that tells them the truth instead of letting them form the truth around their own lives, which is what Hinduism does in a nutshell. It's difficult to be spiritual on your own, especially in a Yuga that is not very spiritual.

If you want to support a religion that actually holds all the truth, support Hinduism. It's meant for the Satya Yuga but if you are spiritual enough it will be fine for you even if we're in the Dwapara Yuga, according to Sri Yukteswar Giri's Yuga theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Science#Yuga_theory

For a more general understanding of the Yuga theory, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga

>>3099877
war

>>3101355
So deep...

>>3101343
>Satya Yuga
Where everybody is 30 feet tall and lives for 100,000 years? Totally plausible

>>3101377
There are different theories and different evidence for those theories. Wikipedia presents that theory for whatever reason and not another, more plausible one. Furthermore, scriptural evidence for that was most probably in metaphorical form.

>>3099877
Gobleki Tepe in Turkey is probably the oldest we know of, as in existing, but no idea what it was like.

>>3101448
>Stuff that's wrong in my religious texts are metaphors or purposefully exaggerated

O hey, any religious argument.

>>3101478
>Picking out outrageous sentences from a biased website that were clearly meant to be metaphorical but I'm too autistic to realize.

Oh hey, an atheist.

>>3100064
>Historians are irrelevant retards

>>3101506
You mean I used the information from the link the anon posted for the subject. And what authority decided what is a metaphor and what isn't? What council decides this?

But please, link unbiased sources on Hinduism.

>Atheist

Ad hominem. You don't know if I'm religious or not. But your argument is weak anyways, might as well digress to that shit.

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>>3099877
Shamanism is the earlist form of "religion" though not a systematised one.

>>3099898
>I hate to break it to you anon, but as a student of history I've come to the conclusion that there is no true religion.
Except that's wrong, kiddo

>>3099877
The true religion was never preached to mankind, because most of mankind belong to the realm of hell as legitimate citizens and demons.

You may wonder if the bible is true since a lot of people swear by it, yet you see how christians are masters at seeking excuses not to adhere by its tenets, the answer is simple, yet many will not like it.
There's a heaven and a hell and the denizens of hell incarnate as normal humans, up until this part it is biblically accurate, and this is why the people of hell believe the bible to be true.
However god is draconic and there are other marked differences, like the requirement to attain gnosis (personal knowledge of god) to be saved that makes christianity false.
The devil and his people however think christianity is true and this is why "degeneracy" in the wolrd is biblical degeneracy, they push it. And this is why christians don't follow the bible to the letter, they are subverting it.
We are in a really dumb situation where the denizens of hell believe a false religion because the true one hasn't been preached to mankind, and they are assuming one false religion and fighting honest seekers of god with false assumptions and expanding what would be the degeneracy of the wrong religion, that is, sins that are not sins.
Imagine all these wasted lives trying to make christianity as unpleasant and fake as possible, all this effort on the false religion.

>>3101783
alright, what is the true religion and how can you prove it

>>3101535
I posted that link for a general understanding of the Yuga theory, and I also posted the Yuga theory that I prescribe to, which does not mention that people live 100,000 years during the Satya Yuga.

If me calling you an atheist is ad hominem then so is,
>O hey, any religious argument.

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>>3101824
Already posted a pic

>>3101845
Hinduism is better.

>>3101848
>better
This is how the problem begins

>>3101825

>I posted that link for a general understanding of the Yuga theory, and I also posted the Yuga theory that I prescribe to, which does not mention that people live 100,000 years during the Satya Yuga.

So the general link of this belief describes it as such, but because you choose to not believe that part of it, it's not part of that belief. So how can what is meant to be true and what is meant to be a metaphor be objectively decided here, or are you just the judge of this?

>If me calling you an atheist is ad hominem then so is,
>O hey, any religious argument.

As hominem: adv & adj
"(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining."

Except it isn't. I'm just stating the how common it is for religious arguments to divert to, " well it doesn't matter if that was wrong, it's a metaphor anyways!!"

>>3101825
Not that dude, but I don't think you know what ad hominem is

Take some acid, anon.

>>3101845
prove to me that it is a true religion while all other religions are false

>>3101866
The Yuga theory is exactly that, a theory. Some people have different opinions on what is true or what is not true. We are in a low Yuga, though, that much is certain. How can you expect to know the whole truth in such a low spiritual age when we have one or two good Swamis every like 100 years or so?

How do we decide what is a metaphor and what is not? We decide based on scriptural tendencies and exegesis from spiritual yogis.

I am calling you an atheist on the basis of your argumentation- not for no reason- which would be ad hominem. It's ad hominem to give a name to your argumentation and to use a METAPHOR to label you? Of course I don't know if you're atheist, but you sure seem like it based on what you say.

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>>3099877

>>3101893
It's not a religion per se and can adapt to any local belief, even shamanism. As well buddhism imo is the only "religion" compatible with modern scientofic thought. We can learn that the universe is made up of dog shit and it's principles wouldn't change.

Basically unconditioned.

Hinduism on the other hand is PIE strate + BMAC strate + native (tantric) strate. Literally syncretism, nothing pure and therefore true at all

>>3101919
If Hinduism is syncretism then they did a pretty shitty job at it because there are hundreds of different sects. Combine all of them? Maybe then you have syncretism. A Hindu defines his own path, there is no one single path. Many lead to truth. That's not syncretism.

>>3100064
Wew lad
>Tips Zucchetto

>>3101919
that doesn't make it true

I think that particular rabbit hole goes as far back as ancient persia and zoroastrianism.
But trying to think of Religion as one absolute truth without knowing its history and the context of its creation and early practice is beyond stupid. If you think something sounds untrue, wrong or makes you sceptical then you should probably try to understand it better or just pass it up.

>>3101938
> A Hindu defines his own path, there is no one single path.
>6 official darshans
>caste system determines gods and rituals
The background is syncretist. IE gods + BMAC rituals (like soma) + native tantra (puja, mantra, yogas, etc).

Vedic religion is far closer to PIE (PIE gods, horses, war, obsession with caste and puritanism) while modern/mainstream has a mix of all.

>>3099877
the experience of love makes everyone whole

>>3099877
Here's the oldest religion known to mankind.

The very first man and the very first woman, both filled with the Breath of Life, the Holy Spirit of God, walking and talking and collaborating with God in the Garden of Eden.

>>3101987

Hinduism: 330,000,000 demons to choose from.

>>3101896
>The Yuga theory is exactly that, a theory. Some people have different opinions on what is true or what is not true.

So ya, completely subjective

>We are in a low Yuga, though, that much is certain. How can you expect to know the whole truth in such a low spiritual age when we have one or two good Swamis every like 100 years or so?

Prove we are in any Yuga or that Yuga exist.

>How do we decide what is a metaphor and what is not? We decide based on scriptural tendencies and exegesis from spiritual yogis.

So subjective opinions, got it

>I am calling you an atheist on the basis of your argumentation- not for no reason- which would be ad hominem. Of course I don't know if you're atheist, but you sure seem like it based on what you say.

Calling me an atheist as your argument is by definition an ad hominem. It's avoiding an actual argument by instead declaring the other person something in an attempt to debase their claim.

You're calling me an atheist because I don't believe what you believe. Sorry I'm not going to jump on the Yuga bandwagon when it's a completely baseless claim.

> It's ad hominem to give a name to your argumentation and to use a METAPHOR to label you?

Huh?

>>3101987
Yeah I get what you're saying but I still disagree. Hinduism is different everywhere you go. I have a hard time seeing that as a syncretism.

Besides, even if you are right, what makes a syncreticm less apt to be true?

>>3102006
Here's the (You) you wanted

>>3101515
Yes. They're fanfic writers

>>3101919
>it follows muh ideology so iz good

>>3102480
>Yes. They're fanfic writers

>>3102487
Don't you think your ideology iz good because it's your ideology?

>>3102497
I don't have one, I'm not caught up in humanism

>>3102480
Why are you on a history board thenm

>>3099877
Real answer without any memes: Zoroastrianism is the oldest "surviving" religion.

>>3102719
How if it didn't become a formal religion until 600bc?

I'd put Hinduism or Jainism (if you argue Hinduism has changed too much so isn't the a same) before it. Even Judaism is older or about the same.

>>3102570
This isn't a history board.

>>3101271
Do jews believe in heaven and hell today?

>>3102931
I think so. I'm not an expert though.

>>3099900
Wrong. Religion is just old science. They tried to understand the universe as best as they could, and that's what they came up with.

>>3101343
It's easy to say that your religion survived when it's actually a shitload of different religions and none of the modern ones is that old.

>>3102931
Most of them don't even believe in God.

>>3101976
Zoroastrianism is explicitly a reform of an older religion, Zoroaster doesn't even try to hide it much.

If religion starting off as folk shamanism and animism why did the Jews go full Autism and create a dogmatic and formal religion?

>>3102971
Not only the Jews did that, look Hinduism.
And >>3101914

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hindu / budium
find your inter self and know that you are god.
jews made Christianity to rule over those that fall to it.

>>3102948
Wrong. Fuck off back to /sci/ you anthrocuntbag.

>>3103012
Back to /r/eddit, new-ager

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>>3101914
>Reform Judaism led to Mormonism

>>3102952
Yes the "religion" changes in form and adapts to new information. It's not a religion, that's the problem. It's a Dharma.

>>3101302
Wow. Idiocy

>>3102968
>>3102719
It's just a reformation of Manicheism, isn't it?
And, isn't that (just) surviving still?

Source: drunken discussions with a friend who's doing his Ph.D. on Manicheism atm

>>3105240

You're a moron. Manicheism is derived in part from Zoroastrianism, not vice versa.

>>3105283
In my defense, I was drunk at the time

>>3101343
"Hinduism" is a recent invention.
Vedism; Brahmanism; Hinduism; these things are very different.

Ancestral worship, undoubtedly, in one form or another.
Depends on what we accept as source.
See Fustel de Coulanges Ancient City for European antiquity.

>when you realise Christians were originally about the mass spread and use of cannabis and individualism

>>3105451

Shamanism is certainly older than ancestor worship. Shamans are found in all primitive cultures, ancestor worship is exclusive to settled agricultural peoples.

Also neither are religions.

Dreamtime technically

>>3105500
>Primitive
Speak for yourself, Untermensch.

T: European

>>3099877
the furthest back in religion that we know is basically specific animism and ancestor worship traditions that are really dependent on each family, tribe and group.

>>3099877
The Vedic religion/hinduism

>>3101919
Just because it's compatible with modern science doesn't make it true. The belief that aliens genetically engineered life on Earth is compatible but isn't necessarily true either.

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A rough list I compiled that gives a general chronological outline of when religions began. Most early religions didn't have a /start date/ because they gradually came about but the dates used are when religions became something recognizable, distinct, and codified in art or text

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>>3102520
>I don't have one, I'm not caught up in humanism

>>3099877
Probably shamanism like many others said.

>>3106393
>Shinto
Literally means the Way of the Gods, how would it have no religious belief component? You are looking at politicised Meiji era interpretations.

>Norse
Again, reductionist view. Needs to be considered in view of Indo-European religion. CF: Dumezil.
>Druids: left no written records due to religious prohibitions against writing, poster uses earliest written records as proof.
Why not check the archaeology beyond Stonehenge, ffs?

Also, no ancient Rome (see Fustel de Coulanges and Dumezil), no Balts (see Gimbujtas).

Otherwise helpful enough but too indeterminate for the ancient stuff.

oldest recorded temple is from a barely known culture in anatolia, 7000 BC

apparently, parts of iberia and anatolia where so bountiful that they attained hunter-gatherer sedentarism for a time, but those culture went extinct as they never achieved agriculture

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>>3101914
by god what the hell is up with people's obsession with a centralised origin?

>indo-european polytheism
>3500 BC
>being a common origin for germano-slavic religions and fucking CELT RELIGION

>>3106582
thank you

>>3106582
ha, yeah, not like celtics and germanics are indo-european or anything

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>>3106631
yes kid explain to me how the thuatha de baddiabinbaddabang relate at all to the germanic and slavic gods that actually share clearly similar roles and concepts and a common inhabited region.

Because god forbid european cultures being their own thing and adapting IE innovations, no, they have to be their direct descendants. Europeans have to be mute atheists who didn't know how to wipe their own ass before IEs taught them.

The whole concept of yanma religion relating to europe is because autistic hisotrians became obssesed with IEs being the source of all Europe and making up a religion to fit their narrative.

It's not like human peoples will adapt innovations from foreign cultures like nearly all Europe did with the Greco-Phoenician alphabet or the Indians did with practically every culture they ever met, right? No, they have to be assimilated.

The worst thing is that beyond the whole nostrism-IE origin retardation, that pic is a good way to see how modern religions developed across millenia.

>>3106483
Norse is in the NA section because it is so amorphous but I thought not putting it somewhere would seem like an omission. But i get you

>>3106724
All the non Indo-European Europeans are dead. Why should they even matter?

>>3106801
then why doens't europe look like homogenous west eurasaian horse archers then?

All religions recycle themselves into other religions over time.

If you're truly looking for spirituality and a sense of divine nature, get into the inner mystery of it all. Study the inner meanings all these religions have in common and see things for what they are, devoid of the socio-political religion is inflicting on mankind.

>>3106582
The only claim I hear is that the core of the religion is similar, brought by Indo-Europeans. They definitely deviated and most likely from the local population.

>>3106997
>All religions recycle themselves into other religions over time.

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you a follower of the Yuga theory?

>>3101919
>syncretism
>not objectively the best religious philosophy

Truth and consistency have no inherent value, especially regarding spirituality

Is it true all religions are founded just out of fear of death? I've heard this statement before but think it isn't the case since some religions still have you ceasing to exist after dying or have fates worse than death

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>>3099877
https://youtu.be/WUYRoYl7i6U?t=870
They are all rehashed copies and mixes of something that came before, to get something fresh and include more people, and outdo other religions. It's literally just a meme among hundreds, and one was bound to go viral at some point.
Christianity is not something to consider if you want originality.

>>3109034
How do you reconcile this?

>>3109330
No historians really argue that he didn't, though. It's more just whether or not he was actually divine.

>>3109577
A few argue he propably didn't. From my (shallow and biased) understanding, they make some solid points.
And anyone who argues/considers divinity is not a historian, that's a religious person.

>>3109636
Fair enough. I admit I haven't really looked into it much beyond seeing articles about the general consensus being he existed.

>>3109636
i don't think there's any historians employed by a university who think jesus did not exist. the closest to that that i know of is Richard Carrier, who isn't employed by one but has his doctorate and wrote a book on the subject (which i haven't read yet) which was peer reviewed. I am persuaded my many of the mythicist points, but I think Paul's mention of James, the brother of christ, is a killer. I don't think the explanation that he could simply be a "brother" of a religious order is very persuasive. unless it can be said that this line wasn't in the original text I think it's a killer for the whole theory

>>3099877
The put the head of their enemies on a stick and projected themselves onto it.

I wish I was kidding.

>>3100046
this

>>3102024

A discourse by Markandeya in the Mahabharata identifies some of the attributes of Kali Yuga. In relation to rulers, it lists:

Rulers will become unreasonable: they will levy taxes unfairly.
Rulers will no longer see it as their duty to promote spirituality, or to protect their subjects: they will become a danger to the world.
People will start migrating, seeking countries where wheat and barley form the staple food source.
"At the end of Kali-yuga, when there exist no topics on the subject of God, even at the residences of so-called saints and respectable gentlemen of the three higher varnas [guna or temperament] and when nothing is known of the techniques of sacrifice, even by word, at that time the Lord will appear as the supreme chastiser." (Srimad-Bhagavatam (2.7)
With regard to human relationships, Markandeya's discourse says:

Avarice and wrath will be common. Humans will openly display animosity towards each other. Ignorance of dharma will occur.
People will have thoughts of murder with no justification and will see nothing wrong in that.
Lust will be viewed as socially acceptable and sexual intercourse will be seen as the central requirement of life.
Sin will increase exponentially, while virtue will fade and cease to flourish.
People will take vows and break them soon after.
People will become addicted to intoxicating drinks and drugs.
Gurus will no longer be respected and their students will attempt to injure them. Their teachings will be insulted, and followers of Kama will wrest control of the mind from all human beings.
Brahmins will not be learned or honored, Kshatriyas will not be brave, Vaishyas will not be just in their dealings, and the caste sytem will be abolished.

>>3111843
Do all the citizens of Kali Yuga go to hell?

>>3101914
how can religious people see this tree and think "yeah, my specific branch of religion is definilty 100% true"

>>3105554
>HURR I dont know what words mean!
>DURR

Gas yourself you moron.

>>3112973
enjoy your primitive culture, you savage.

>>3106724
Explain further. I was told during history class that Indo-Europeans were the first cultured people who spread over Eurasia and blah blah. Weren't the Tuatha de Danaan an Irish myth?

>>3099877
Samaritanism
>>3100046
Hinfuism t is fairly recent something like 1000 A.D.

>>3099877
Maybe hinduism?
>Rigveda is one of the oldest extant texts in any Indo-European language.[13] Philological and linguistic evidence indicate that the Rigveda was composed in the north-western region of the Indian subcontinent, most likely between c. 1500 and 1200 BC

>>3099877
Shamanism and Animism, last one is oldest

>>3113992
A banal falsification. Many religions like have a fake beards

>>3114006
They falsified a whole language?

>>3111843
>Describe how civilizations have been since recorded history

SEE WE ARE IN A YUGA!!!

Not really proving anything

>>3099877
The Aurignacian (Paleolithic Europe) Lionman cult. They were the same culture that made the various Venus figurines, and much (but not all) of the various cave art. There is one drawing (The Sorcerer from the Cave of the Trois-Frères) clearly showing a man in a deer skin with antlers.

These are almost certainly shamanist relics.

>>3113992
Hinduism is young. 1500 BC is nothing. Furthermore, modern Hinduism (there is not one single "Hinduism", it's a cultural-religious spectrum) is pretty different from how it was practiced and believed thousands of years ago.

>>3100048
this

>>3099877
Mormonism.

>>3114165
That's because Hinduism is ever evolving. It's not one single thing. Its name wasn't even, "Hinduism" until Westerners named it that.

>>3101783
>unironically believing esoteric Tibetan buddhism is the "true religion".
>facepalm

>>3099898
>All of man's religions were created by men as a means to explain the world and stave off existential dread.
That's not true. The Abrahamic ones were engineered maliciously, to render populations more subservient. That's why rulers liked them so much.

>>3101914
>incan religion somehow derived from 100 BCE mesoamerica

But andeans and mesoamericans religions had nothing to do with each other and they didn't even had the same origin.
Inca religion possibly had its origins on the norte chico region, since ancient times virtually all central andean cultures had a similar god know as the "staff god" by the archaeologists, there is a 4200 yo drawing of him, making him the oldest known god of the americas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_God

>>3114188
>It's not one single thing
That's what I just said. Regardless, it's not the oldest religion.

>>3114215
Since they were made up by the rulers, naturally.

>>3114204
Not the same anon but, what's the deal with tibetan buddhism?

>>3099915
One of the sects of Judiasm mentioned in the Bible didn't believe in an afterlife.

>>3115286
only 7-8th century or so.
Bon may be much older, but they have a ridiculous symbolic chronology that's hard to take seriously.

>>3114048

Jeez. "The Recorded History" altogether is the Kali Yuga. The Sat Yuga ended with Krishna.

>>3115286
it's like the Gnostic church, if it were Christianity. Lots of 'secret' mysteries and arcane ways to reach Nirvana, etc. Fair bit of syncretism with pre-Buddhist superstition (which you'd expect). For westerners to pick it as the Buddhism they'll follow is just sort of bizarre. I mean, as a religion, it's not terribad per se. I know some Tibetans and they're cool and all. But as Buddhism goes, there are less wacky eye-rolling paths to follow. At least I think so.

>>3099877
Define "religion", there has always been supernatural beliefs of some kind to better rationalize the world ever since humans reached a certain level of cognitive ability to think in abstract ways. These natural primitive beliefs seems to universally manifest as animism and nature worship. But if you mean organized religion I'd think whenever the first permanent agricultural settlements were established and a city or "state" belief system was imposed by the rulers over their subjects, maybe the ancient Sumerians or other very early civilizations would be the first examples of this?

>>3115286
they unironically fux with black magic and sex rites

>>3100046
No, only some Vedas are really old but vedic religion is not the same as hinduism

>>3114215
>maliciously
I don't really find anything malicious about it. Obviously any form of civilization is gonna need some degree of subservience from its population. Those rulers didn't do anything wrong other than what technically amounts to lying. If everything succeeded and the religion helped foster order and stability, thereby reducing human suffering, then how can you call that a bad thing?

>>3115808
Which there is no documentation of that time, convenient.

>>3099898
t. pretentious little 19 year old.


Just fuck off bro.

> All of man's religions were created by men as a means to explain the world and stave off existential dread.

Jesus fucking christ. go find a rope and hang yourself so you see hell for yourself.


@topic
Shamanism, but that was strictly individual for a while.

>>3117486
shamanism is by and large a social function, not a spiritual path.