Is math discovered or invented?

>>3094934
Math is simply an abstract language.

Invented. There aren't set values, but only means of measuring things.

Maths is by and large the result of the ability to measure things.

>>3094934
Math and Language(words and symbols) are metaphysical concepts.

>>3094934
Discovered. Until invented-fags can invent their own alternative maths that let them build a network of computers to communicate their argument through they can fuck off.

>>3094971
>Invented
You contradicted yourself right after with
>but only means of measuring things.
that's literally a discovery. To measure something is not to create result, but to discover it.

Algebra is an invention, it's the human language of math. But the OP didn't ask if Algebra was invented, did he?

>>3094984
But these concepts are linked to any object or entity. There is no source code of universe. They were invented and exist only in human mind.

Turns out math is very useful in describing relations of physical world. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't change the nature of mathematics.

>>3095251
>Turns out math is very useful in describing relations of physical world.
It's not a random accident that's true. Mathematics are discovered on the basis of logical consistency. If someone tried to 'invent' some new mathematics that weren't logically consistent then it'd be found out sooner or later that this someone was wrong and their non-maths wouldn't be useful in describing reality.

>>3095285
This.

Even if the human race went extinct, if, on some corner of the universe, an intelligent race of beings came into existence, if they were to draw a plane figure with three sides (on a plane surface), the sum of the internal angles of said figure would be equal to two right angles; and the ratio between the diameter and the circumference of a circle would always be pi, no matter where and when in the universe. Eventually said intelligent race would discover all laws of mathematics all over again the same way we have.

These are not invented, or agreed upon by some political body that can interpret and distort it at will, according to the dominant ideology of the day (and this probably triggers the humanities sophomore deeply). They are discovered.

>>3095328

> Assuming a shape's identity based on angles.

Spotted the cis white male.

>>3095328
Check your euclidean privilege.

>>3095363
>>3095382
Lmao

>>3094934

Math is a game of symbol manipulation, the rules (axioms) are created, the behavior of those rules is discovered.

An invention is just discovering something useful. It's a semantic quirk of the English language.

>>3094934
Both. We discover truths about our invented symbols that are slabstractions of real things.

>>3095285
My shit is consistent, there is no reason to think it should be useful. We only wouldn't be having this convo if math wasn't.

>>3095328
But than again that's a consqeunce, not a reason. There are no right angles in nature. Only the geometry of space can be approximated in language of euclidean geometry and once you want to go beyond naive approach to math you have to rigorously define and invent your theory THAT is useful to description of world, not the other way a around. Or it doesn't have to be useful, it may describe concepts that have no analogy anywhere. It can take someone else 100 years to find some new implications of your invention you weren't aware about at all, it doesn't change anything.

>>3095107
Every invention is discovered. It was possible to make cars in 1000bc, the system of parts and processes that make a car run was objectively still available. It just wasn't discovered by man yet.

>literally nobody mentions Gödel's Incompleteness

Obviously mathematics is invented.

>>3095652
Gödel proved there are true and unprovable statements, not that mathematics is invented.

>>3094934
It's a bit of both.

Axioms are defined. The consequences they imply are discovered.

>>3095692
>implying mathematical statements aren't invented

>>3095646
please go play somewhere while adults talk

>>3095652
yep, and that invalidates a notion of some singular mathematics that can be discovered by its virtue of logical consistency.

>>3095652
Godel thought exactly the opposite of what you stated.

The invention is the symbols and systems we use to discover math. Anyone who claims mathematics itself is "invented" is brain dead.

/thread

>>3095251
>Turns out math is very useful in describing relations of physical world.

So is language. Do you think language is invented or discovered?

>>3096207
Natural languages are absolute garbage at describing the physical world. Try having physics or chemistry with nothing but English to work with, you won't get very far.

>>3096484

What a totally moronic thing to say. Literally anything you can express in one language, you can translate to another. This includes from the language of mathematics to any natural language.

>>3096529
>Literally anything you can express in one language, you can translate to another.
A) No. and B) Even if you could it won't be helpful if it requires a trillion more symbols to express the same thing completely. If English were really fine for formal use we wouldn't need mathematics.

>>3096555

So what you're saying is, a language carefully designed to describe phenomena as efficiently as possible is more efficient at doing so than a language not designed for that? Go fuck yourself, moron.

>>3096579
I'm saying you can't just make up shit and have it be the same as actual mathematics. And you literally couldn't 'translate' maths into a natural language regardless because natural language doesn't have formal definitions for its terms. That's why you can't program a computer by writing in regular English what you'd like it to do. Natural language is slippery bullshit.

>>3096207
Mathematics is not a language, you absolute fucking dunce. It's an field of knowledge!

>>3096623

You're a fucking cretin.

>>3095363

I like you.

holy fuck who cares, this is /sci/ shit not history nor humanities shit. fuck off.

>>3094934
Discovered. If it were invented, then we would be able to change its logic.

>>3098089
>if steam engine were invented we would be able to change its logic

Invented. Physics is applied Math and you can make discoveries in Physics.

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>>3097751
>philosphy of math isn't humanities

>>3094937
And is an abstract language invented or discovered? :p

>>3095382
(You)'re quite amusing anon :).

>>3099629
Math is analytical metaphysics. You're just engineers of the mind. The best engineers mind you, but engineers none the less.

>>3099857
>analytical metaphysics
these words literally don't mean anything

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>>3097168

>>3099879
>these words literally don't mean anything

Woooooosh.

You're not even wrong.

>>3094934
Invented

Isn't an invention a discovery as well?

>>3099656
philosophy of math is to math what scientology is to science

>>3094934
Math is about discovering the properties of abstract (invented) systems.

So both in a way, though the invention of different systems is only interesting so far as there are interesting things to discover about them.

It's innate.

You discover within an invented set of axioms.

>>3094934
It's discovered.
A mathmatician only examines the possible relations of the forms of every thinkable axiom, and the possibilities were always existing (I think).

>>3099606
You can change a steam engine and you can change the superficial culture specific ways of interacting with mathematical reality. You can't change physics and you can't change mathematical reality.

>>3094934
Invented.

Mathematicians will find some mathematical phenomenon or method that won't have any use, and then years if not decades later scientists will find a use for it within the observable world.