Tiananmen Square Massacre 1989

>>3093759
No. Not enough.

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>>3093777
Nice trips Deng.

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>>3093759
>Was it really a massacre?

Yes. The young intellectual, and especially the students, have always been a strong force in China. It is a bit paradoxal for a a country which history is full of peasant revolutions, but the students were the main force behind the 4th May Movement, which is considered to be the birth of modern chinese nationalism.

The CCP is aware of that, and at the time, China was "on the brink" of civil war, which means the possibility was real but there was still a lot of factors that could have and would have prevented that.

Anyway, on top of the CCP, was the conservatives and the progressists. The death of one of the most progressists of all progressists sparkled the protest, even though it is simply in direct line with the democracy movement of the early 80s. People want the 5th modernization, democracy - and a better fight agasint corruption - but old Deng isn't ready for that, and knowing what the youth is capable, he unleashed the tanks.

I personnaly don't think he actually wanted to kill people, but still hold no regrets for doing so.

>How many people died?
Less than 300 according to the CCP, over 10 000 according to the Soviet Union, who did not like China at the time. The truth lies between these numbers, I guess.

>>3093777
Witnessed.

>>3093799
>The truth lies between these numbers, I guess.
Honestly, looking at images and videos of the time, I think the CCP is closer to the truth in this instance. There are a lot of photos and videos of the protest, but barely any of dead people. I feel like if 10000 people died, there would have been a lot more photos and videos of it.

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>>3093759

Tian'anmen Square was the culmination of a struggle within the Communist party, as opposed to a growth of Liberalism as assumed throughout the Western world.

The protesters who were run over by tanks did not oppose Communism. They did not even oppose the Chinese Communist Party. In Tian’anmen they sang the Chinese National Anthem, the “March of the Volunteers”, a song that was adopted by the Chinese Communist Party in 1949. They also sang the Communist “Internationale”, the previous National Anthem of China. They waved their beloved Chinese flags with Communist paraphernalia. And they asked for Deng Xiaoping’s resignation. And that’s all.

While the protesters employed platitudes like 'freedom' and 'democracy', these were just yearnings for an earlier form of Chinese Communism. The idea that socialist movements were initially pure and noble but were derailed is not a narrative that is unique to socialist movements in the West.

We should not be surprised at the results of the Tian'anmen massacre. While we see these events as an authoritarian regime cracking down on dissent there is a much easier explanation. This occurred as the historical and inevitable result of Communism, when one group of totalitarians is purged by the other. As it happened to Trotsky, it happened to Lin Biao, Giap, Liu Shaoqi and many more.

>>3093815
Also my opinion, Tiananmen is huge, but there's no way 10 000 people died. Wounded are estimated around 7000 - 10 000 (5 000 for most chinese sources if I recall)

>>3093860
In all its history, China has never been a democracy anyway. Today's chinese youth have no problem talking about Tiananmen and they might debate the numbers, but not the reality of the massacre.

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>>3093924
>Today's chinese youth have no problem talking about Tiananmen.

>>3093924
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hooL98OwlMM

>>3093924
I actually met someone chinese people on an online videogame yesterday and I showed them the Tank Man photo, they said it was the first time they saw it

>>3093937
>>3093954
That's chinese governement. The youth is aware of what happened, even though education is holding back lots of informations. Same goes with the Cultural Revolution, the only thing they might debate is Mao's involvement and the total number of casualties.

As for the urban youth, they all know what a VPN is and they know how to use it, however, they will find all kinds of justification because a lot of them are overly nationalistic.

I've been living in China for one year now, and I'm not only interacting with expats and overly westernized chinese.

>>3093940
>Today's chinese youth
>Send a video that is at least 15 years old.

>>3093965
Well the people I talked to also used a VPN and they simply didn't know about it, maybe they just weren't interested in general. They weren't nationalistic either, they just didn't know about it.

>>3093799
Checked.

>>3093965
I have met some overseas Chinese students and they told me they had no idea about 89 before coming to America.

>>3093954
40% of my high school was Chinese. The only ones who knew and cared were Taiwanese chinks. The mainlanders either didn't give a shit or didn't know.
This was 10 years ago.

>>3093965
>15 years old.
Eight numbnuts.
>they will find all kinds of justification because a lot of them are overly nationalistic.
When I asked the mainlanders who knew but didn't care why it didn't bother them they said the protesters would have just made life worse for everyone. Given how massive civil unrest usually winds up killing millions there it's an understandable point of view.

>>3093987
That's when the video was posted, numbnuts, but if you look at the video's background, it is older.

>Given how massive civil unrest usually winds up killing millions there it's an understandable point of view.
Agreed.They are aware of the reality of things, at least a good chunk of it, and form their own opinions about it.

Stanley Rosen wrote a few papers on the topic of chinese youth and their ideologies, it's quite an interesting read for anyone interested and can be easily found in pdf.

>>3093799
>Brink of a civil war.
>Its only limited to the Capital.
What is this? Eastern Europe?

China on the brink of Civil War is multiple uprisings happening accross the vast country. Like in cases of Dynastic Overthrows or the 1911 Revolution.

Beijing Antics are nothing.

>>3093924
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and all those stories about how Nobel Laureate who died recently? and China removing all mention of him online? Bunch of overblown Western hype. Everyone was talking about him on the street. Everywhere you go, people talk about whether his imprisonment was fair or not.

Yeah, no. Nobody talks about Tiananmen in China because... it does not appear in Chinese media or literature, and if you do talk about Tiananmen, what the fuck is there to talk about? "Hey, remember that heavily censored incident that happened decades ago?" "At least two hundred people died! Whoa! Two hundred out of our billions!"

If you live in China, you'll find that people talk far more candidly about politics and other hot button issues (abortion, one-child policy, sovereignty, religion, etc. etc.), but people don't talk about the Nobel Laureate because, surprise surprise, he doesn't show up in the news, so nobody gives a fuck and they don't talk about incidents like Tiananmen Square because, surprise surprise, they don't show up in the news, so nobody gives a fuck.

People always seem to fail to realize how powerful the media is. Nobody gave a FUCK about Trayvon Martin's death for, what, two three years (or was it months?) because the media didn't report on it for two three years (or was it months?).

If CCTV does not talk about it, most people aren't even going to know it is happening. So shut the fuck up about how people talk about Tiananmen in China. They don't. Nobody gives a fuck about Tiananmen because nobody reads about Tiananmen in China.

>>3094308
Do you have some issues with reading comprehension, maybe ?

>>3093759
But the real question is, was it Soros backed?

>>3093777
Liu Cuckbo btfo

>>3093777
edgy/10

>>3095281
Everything since Soros birth was backed by Soros.

>>3093759
There was a massacre but nobody actually died in the square itself, all of the casualties were in the streets of Beijing.

That's probably one reason why the Chinese just refer to it as "6/4" (June 4th) rather than call it the "Tiananmen Square Massacre"

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>people actually believe the word of authoritarian regimes like Nazi Germany or Communist China on how many people they killed in an event