The collapse of academia

>>3084527
Education bubble. Enroll students to get money. More students means more money. Education used to be that to get an education beyond basic schooling (i.e. reading, writing, basic arithmetic) you either needed to have the money, a benefactor or the drive to work hard and pay your way thus only a fraction could continue schooling once they got to, say, high school age while most people went to work in manual labor or artisanl trades. At the same time, education had long had a core curriculum evolving through Renaissance humanism, the Enlightenment, etc. that focused on being able to create a person who could think, speak, argue and observe the world in a rational and critical manner. Combine that with societies (historical, various sciences, literary, letter writing, etc.) and thought was allowed to flourish and develop.

It's elitist and snobbish to be sure but not everyone should, nor should they need to, have access to higher education. Likewise education needs to go back to a more Enlightenment influenced model revolving around creating critical thinkers and rational observers focusing on the classical liberal education curriculum and a jettisoning of a lot of the Marxist/post-modern bullshit like critical theory that serves only to tear down and destroy society as a collective instead of building up the individual.

And yes, the education bubble will eventually collpase. It's unsustainable as people continue to go into unescapable debt for increasingly worthless scraps of paper so they can get bullied and screamed at by minorities, women, effete "men" and bourgeois kids LARPing as Marxist revolutionaries.

>>3084527
Its interesting that if you look at old college pictures the entire class of a state university might be less than a hundred people.

Regardless of what degree they got they were practically insured a high position in society, either in business, politics or an academic institution.

Even if the quality remains the same, more people means more competition so the same degree isn't worth as much

>>3084527
t. butthurt brainlet who couldn't finish a degree

I have two masters and a phd therefore I am super intelligent so I know what I'm talking about

>>3085534
In my country university is "free" (it's not, obviously. In fact it is the same business scam as in paid universities except you are forced by the state to keep the business running) and it creates the same problems, if not even worse. Everybody has a degree (there is no interview or joining process), foreigners come to study for free and don't leave, even criminals in jail can freely study, and so it oversaturates fields, creates absurd competition, and entire generations who wouldn't work in anything unrelated and no less for X amount of money.

It will collapse at this pace.

>>3085698
Sucks to suck. At least in the future robots will do most of the unwanted jobs.

>>3085534
Friend there is something called criterion and reasoning, the problem is not education the problem is people like you who believe that life has to give everything, the school has a direct message and is that if you do not strive, to end being people like the one that made this thread, a failure that did not know to plan that would do with his life.

>>3086268
"Wanted" jobs are going (being in some cases) to be done by machines as well.

Accountants, civil engineers, etc. Anything that requires only stadistics/calculus or anything repetitive can be replaced. And even creativity.

Replaced, or making studies/specialization obsolete by making the technology available to the public. Back in the day you needed materials to edit videos, print photos, etc; nowadays you can do it all with a PC and a Youtube tutorial. 3D printers will become accessible, VR making, etc.

Technologies make certain ways of learning and doing obsolete. The academia and society don't want tp recognize it because $$$

>>3086339
>triggered

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>>3086339

>>3084527
Well, yeah. Academia breeds academics for the sake of itself, it's a circlejerk. Send the kids to college so they can make a better life, if they don't go make sure society reminds them they are losers so they can keep dragging each other down; meanwhile, those in college can stroke each other off thinking they're doing the best thing possible and eventually develop issues when they hit their mid-life crisis because they've passed the point where they matter socially and where people stop jerking them off for meeting their responsibilities. Divorce, substance abuse, distancing themselves from their kids, love affairs, sudden shift in careers.

>>3084527
Back in the day, the wise progressed in universities, those who wanted to pursue wisdom and knowledge

Since XX century (and product of mass capitalism and industrialism) the academia became a trade school for country side plebeians who only want money and hide their low caste origin

>>3084527
I think the children of Millennials won't attend universities as much as Millennials did. Surely their parents will redpill them about it.

And yes the Internet is making traditional education obsolete just as it has done to many other industries.

>>3085698
Essentially this. Society doesn't have a need for everyone having a post-secondary education and despite what retards believe increasing mechanization doesn't magically create jobs as AI programmers and robot engineers.

>>3084527

Let's look at the issue a bit more broadly.

1. "Academia" itself is just a catchall term for the clique of people who inhabit and operate Universities. Universities exist to curate knowledge and understanding.

2. Since the late nineteenth century, the chief role of universities has moved from "general enlightenment" to "research and development". This is a major change, as it creates quantifiable products (patents and their associated profits) both universities and university staff can generate. As such, there has been a massive shift from humanities focus to STEM focuses, a process which was largely complete by the 1960s due to the demands of WW1, WW2 and the Cold War. The original Free Speech Movement was an organized attempt at fighting this, but it lost most of it's momentum after Congress did away with conscription. And with the end of the Cold War, so was the end of history and most historical debate as everyone just assumed liberal democracy/capitalism was the only practical system.

3. Since 1991, the response to concerns about global capitalism's impact on the workforce was always met with "get more college". This spawned a massive college industry, especially with the rise of government backed student loans (not unlike programs that led to the 2007 housing crash). Since the housing crash, more and more people have decided to invest educations rather than property. This has led to a supply "crisis" which universities abuse because it allows them to offer middling quality service at a high cost.

4. Additionally, the standardization of education with the 2002 No Child Left Behind Act and the 2010 Common Core has removed the need for teachers in K-12 education. It will inevitably be extended to "core" college classes, as employers find that more and more graduates are low quality and need more training.

The idea that education = money is the problem.

Most people don't study because they want to be educated or because genuine vocation or love for their field. They study because they want money, and ironically they keep being ignorant retards even if they become "professionals".

If the average Joe could do well in life with a simple job in his countryside house picking fruits and potatoes, he wouldn't pursue higher education. Funnily so much emphasis is put on school and high school and the importance of it but at the end of the day it's considered garbage if everybody doesn't go to university.

Society is simply wrong motivated and directed. It's just another sympthom of modernity and soulless postindustrial society.

>>3087261

The end result of this is that all college cirriculums are decided by some office in DC and everyone uses computers for learning. Meanwhile the college industry collapses like the housing industry did, leading colleges to axe humanities courses that don't bring in grant money or profitable patents. It is much like how Ray Bradbury envisioned it in his 1953 book Fahrenheit 451.

>>3087264
Interesting. Gonna give a read to the book

>>3087281
You haven't read Fahrenheit 451? You'll enjoy it. It's a great book. Not sure it is quite how that anon described it, though. I think it's more about limiting knowledge due to oppressive political regimes. Unless you think of profit-motivated universities within capitalism as being a part of an oppressive political regime (and maybe you could, a political regime that mandates knowledge to be profitable or else it becomes de facto censored due to falling to disuse is pretty dystopian).

>>3084527
The two major modes of thinking when considering education are a classical self-improvement mode and a modern job-training mode. These two modes of thinking coexist in today's society while I would say that the sheer cost of education has forced a more general adoption of the modern mode. If it has such an immense cost in not just time but money, people reckon that it must have a financial return on investment.

Two trends will cause a return to the classical education-as-self-improvement model. The first is that even high education jobs will become mechanized, outdating the idea of education-as-job-training. The second is that the education bubble will pop, and there will be hellfire for a few years -- universities going bankrupt, government bail outs, nationalized education, etc. -- the result of which will be a lowered cost of education. Because there will not be such an incentive to justify education as an economic investment, there will be some return to the attitude of education-as-self-improvement.

But higher education will never go away. The reason why it's so popular right now is because many people see it as useful. So, in a scenario in which higher education is no longer useful (cost too high, no jobs for anyone regardless of education), then the system just returns to the age old system of only the nerds and/or rich individuals seek higher education.

I believe those who shame current education for not raising the right students are in the wrong.

Those phantom students of times past are now culled from top schools such as Harvard, Duke, and Yale. They are the ones who carry the torch of passion for whatever subject they are learning and will be the ones who move higher into society. Not to say a state college kid can't do that, but it's custom to choose from the ivies as it's a filter system

The more people who are educated to higher levels the better. The problem is not that to many people are getting degrees, It's that we are not reorganizing societal systems to account for them.

>>3084527
I feel this is basically a butthurt post by somebody externalising their failure to get into university.

They have completely hyperbolised the real but far less dramatic problem of qualification inflation, the claim that one can learn more about a field by reading a, A book or a goddamn youtube video is beyond hyperbolic and is simply extreme and absurd horseshit; anything further down the post just stinks of asspain.

>>3086606
lmao

>>3088046
That's yet for OP to tell us, otherwise its just as much projection on your part as you suppose he's indulging in. Your questioning his reputation is actually disgusting in a thread that has otherwise produced thoughtful replies.

>>3088052
Your melodrama is disgusting tbqh, don't lay it on so thick. I'll respond thoughtfully to a thoughtful post and not one which is majority bullshit.

>>3088046
>Stage 1: denial

One of the problems is that you actually have to be smart to recognize college's flaws, and most college students have mediocre intelligence. If you are average intelligence, then to you college, which is controlled by people with slightly above average intelligence, will seem scintillating.

>>3085698
>foreigners come to study for free and don't leave

What country is this?

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>>3088059

>>3084527

join the military and get your education for free, fuck.

>>3088077
Probably some eurofaggot shithole

>>3087376
Nah, man, you've got it a bit mixed up. There is a strong regime in place, but the reason for book burning was that the people as a whole decided that they didn't want to "think critically," they didn't want to have to deal with subjects that were in the banned books, they just wanted to watch the wall tv all day with Jesus advertising his products. The government wasn't the catalyst, but it was more than happy to oblige the will of the people.

>>3088077
Argentina.

>>3088046
I think he is right. College can be great or awful at teaching things. I learned a lot more about history on my own than I ever did on school.

I would say that maybe some STEM fields are not as feasible to learn on your own, but STEM is hard science, so the facts are fact regardless of where you hear them.

>>3088135
I want to know why our country also suffers from this retarded "you HAVE to have a college degree to do ANYTHING" when most schools are free or heavily subsidized. I don't get it.

My paranoid brain thinks it must be that it's politician's families running the schools and keeping all the tax money that never gets used to improve the schools.

>>3087044
No, it was just a finishing school for the children of the rich, many of whom didn't even bother completing their studies. The main reason that, for example, the syllabi of most Oxford courses is basically ossified and about fifty years behind anywhere serious is that this situation continues. Academia only began being a place to think when it had to offer an objectively rigorous product in a competitive marketplace, where new-rich felt they could take education or leave it - most pre-20th century philosophy, for example, reads like /r9k/ posts.

>>3088177
Because Argentina

And

>politician's families running the schools and keeping all the tax money that never gets used to improve the schools.
This is factually true. The UBA specially is a BIG money (and money laundry) scheme.

>>3087580
>Two trends will cause a return to the classical education-as-self-improvement model.

Not even the rich want this any longer, though. I think you're being unduly optimistic.

>>3088038
No, it's a class system. Once you understand that America has a class system more restrictive than Europe's are now, everything will make a lot more sense to you.

>>3088052
>Your questioning his reputation

He doesn't have a "reputation", does he, this is an anonymous discussion.

>>3088204
Amazing how not even the anonymous system can't eliminate ad-hominem

>>3088195
>Not even the rich want this any longer, though. I think you're being unduly optimistic.
That's because they've become decadent and degenerate despite living in an increasingly meritocratic society. Watch as the resentful middle class seizes the opportunity to overthrow the current breed of elites.

>>3088210
Not that anon, but there haven't been any ad hominem attacks in this thread. What was said was analysed. Only people who can't get into university think you can replace a degree with YouTube videos, and the rest is sour grapes.

>>3088220
But all the middle class resent is the lack of money. There is nobody beyond a residue of eccentrics who gives a tin shit about culture any longer, let's face it.

>>3088222
It was more of a general comment about the site in general than a direct response to that particular post desu

And maybe not with youtube videos alone, but the internet in general does contain more information than any book, simply because, well, you can find most if not all books ever written in here.

>>3088135
Yep. Here in Uruguay we used to recieve quite a lot of Chilenos due to our good public universities and the fact that they have entry exams and we do not.

>>3088230
I'm fairly sure this has always been the case with the general lower classes. And probably among the aristocracy too.

>>3088232
It is absolutely fucking retarded how we have absolutely no requirements from students at all. No entry exams, no minimum notes, we don't even fucking control whether they even assist to classes anymore.

We give them free education, we provide the materials, and even give them cash, and we literally expect nothing in return.

At least here in Argentina, it's pretty fucking stupid.

>>3088252
Criminals in the UBA XXII program can study whatever they want no matter their sentence or charges. Law, surgery, psychiatry, accounting (get the message, right?).

>>3088256
Well criminals do seem to make up a huge chunk of the population of Bs.As. Or that's the impression we get from the outside desu

And most everywhere, if I am to drop the smugness.

>>3084527
>going to a shit university to begin with
This is what you get when universities becomes privatized and for-profit. Worthless degrees with high student debts.

Also unironically this>>3088202

>>3088264
I don' t think the UBA XXI is only for Bs As, AFAIK it works with the jails countrywide.

>>3088270
I've never heard of it here. And I do believe every province gets a certain degree of independence when it comes to education. But it is yet another online program so who knows, it might be.

>>3088277
Not the same anon but the UBA has departments for distance learning even in Ushuaia, wouldn't surprise me if it exist there.

>>3084527
I minored in polishing because I love the art of politics, diplomacy, and history. Due to this, I read a lot of history and politics on my own time. I can tell you I never once felt engaged in any of my classes and never had to study because even the higher level classes were so easy that anyone with a basic political understanding of the topics' dearth could breeze through. I had one professor in the fall of 2016 who would just rant about Trump and our only test was naming countries on a fucking map. There were a lot of stupid people in that program.

>>3088282
Autocorrect *polisci

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I majored in PENIS and got a job in PENIS

>>3087281
I hated it when I read it, but I was forced to read it as a freshman in high school. I'd probably appreciate it a lot more now.

desu in my experience the problem starts with highschool. I think only elementary should be mandatory, and high school should be closer to college in the way it works.

Most kids in high school hate going there. and they feel confident enough to challenge authority, so I was never able to learn a single thing there because it was impossible for any teacher to give a class.
I myself hated going to high school. I only liked biology and humanity classes, but I had to sit trough math and physics and stuff I didn't get nor wanted to get. I regret both not paying as much attention as I should of have, and knowing that even if I tried there was hardly a class to pay attention to most of the time anyway.

So I expend 7 years of my life going to a place I hated for no reason. If I went back now I feel I would be able to make a lot more out of it, and I think maybe it would of been a good idea to just let me and others realize the value of knowledge on my own and go there because I wanted to learn, rather than because I was told to. Highschool would be a lot more productive that way. Or that's what my dumbass thinks anyway.

>>3088294
Iktf

>>3084527
Hopefully. Doing a maths degree right now and I can objectively say that well over half of the material is stuff we learned in highschool. As in, if I hadn't gone to a single lecture and done no reading beyond going over my highschool textbooks, I would've breezed through 3 of the 4 end-of-year exams. It's a joke that I'm forced to pay £££ for this '''education'''. Unis and HR departments are both scams, parasites leeching money from society by their cornering of the white-collar jobs market, and the sooner they collapse the better.

Surely someone has brought this up by now. Education should be as close to free as possible. I'm not referring to what socialists call "free college" but the rather basic principle of supply and demand. I assume there's plenty of people going to college, but does the "supply" of education really go down? What are the expenses to warrant $30,000 a year, per individual?

>>3088519
If we're keeping it purely US-focused. Wages in the US are stupidly high.

Knowledge was limited to a few and the source of it was the teacher who assimilated it and shared it. Then millenia later with technologies it's not the case anymore.

University is overrated mainly due to self denial of the university on itself and because $$$

>>3087192
>Society doesn't have a need for everyone having a post-secondary education
>Pajeetland and Chinkna have millions of millions of graduates
>millions keep going overseas to the already saturated Western countries because no jobs in home
This is gonna end bad.

VERY bad

>>3088294
>tfw spent 3-4 hours a day in highschool reading for pleasure (unrelated to school) or sleeping

what a waste

>>3088777
Everyone keeps denying that automation is a problem. All the denying is going to end up biting us in the ass harder than any global warming ever could.

>>3088801
Same. I felt really bad for the teachers too. Especially the music teacher, I think he ended up quitting his job because of the students.

>>3088777
29 years, Italian.
University degree at 25, architecture and construction engineering
I worked for three years in a professional studio that treated me like a slave underpaid without giving me opportunities for growth. Competition is huge and there are too many architecture studios, but only those with political recommendations get the best deals. It looks like a cliché, but my country is a sewer for these things. Clients were another pain in the ass because they delay payments pretty often.

Now I'm a teacher of secondary school, and it's not so bad. I do not earn much, but it's fine. I have more free time than a friends of mine who have studied too, but now work 8 hours in a factory.

I have to say, my degree has still served me something.

Bumpo

>>3089032
It's 8am, calm down.

>>3089058
It's 1 PM, my atlantic friend

>>3085698
Could be Greece, same exact thing happens here.

>>3088038
This is actually a common misconception, but I don't blame you for holding it, because the research against it is pretty new.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html

Ivy leagues and other "elite" universities that take "only the best students" and don't award merit scholarships because their "students are already meritorious" often have a clear, even overwhelming preference for students of wealthy families. I'd wager this is because in the United States, students and their families are forced to disclose their financial information before a decision is made by a university. They swear up and down that they don't consider money, but when the entire process is locked behind closed doors, they refuse to let any outsiders witness it if only to document it, and the results nevertheless end up like this, how can you trust them?

>>3088046
>the claim that one can learn more about a field by reading a, A book or a goddamn youtube video is beyond hyperbolic
Have you ever, like, been to university? In the United States, if you actually read the assigned textbook, you're doing more work than almost everyone else (you might be the only one doing that), and so you're practically guaranteed an A. Just one book on the subject might make you more knowledgeable than all others who claim to pursue this as their degree, their career, their passion! It won't make you an expert, but it will put you above many undergrads. It seems unbelievable, but it's far from hyperbolic.

Or maybe I was just studying a field full of retards. Psychology desu

>>3089244
> in the United States, students and their families are forced to disclose their financial information before a decision is made by a university. They swear up and down that they don't consider money

I've visited the sites of different universities in USA to look for postgraduate scholarships and they all said that before applying you must have the money to pay for the tution as if you didn't need the scholarship in case you weren't selected (except for specific nations like Haiti and some African countries). That scholarships and acceptance are first awarded to american nationals and none for foreigners.

Seemed strange with how /pol/ complains that foreigners receive scholarships to study in USA just for being foreigners

>>3088195
I could be. What makes you think this will not be the case? I am saying that the future will be catastrophic for universities, one way or the other. Attendance will surely drop by 90% or more, given enough time. But, unlike the OP, I argue that at the end of the day, higher education will still exist as a concept and still be pursued by some. I think it's a fairly conservative estimation, actually. But what makes you think that something else would happen? I'd like to hear your reasoning, because I could be mistaken.

>>3089277
>Seemed strange with how /pol/ complains that foreigners receive scholarships to study in USA just for being foreigners
WOAH. Where did they even get this? Often times from /pol/ I hear a craven politicization of facts, like using the lower IQ of a race as justification for eugenics/genocide or something, but rarely do I hear complete fabrications. And this is a complete fabrication, at least for US universities. Everyone who has ever talked to a foreign student even once realizes they're either an exchange (i.e., only here for a year and paying what they would pay at home), wealthy, or taking on a lot of debt. I had one peer who was literally like the son of an Iranian aristocrat. Drove a Ferrari. Another was like the son of a well-off Chinese businessman. Unlike Americans, they're not benefiting from state scholarships, in-state tuition, university merit-based scholarships, the Pell Grant, or anything. So most of the time, they're paying their own way.

>>3089307
I think self-education will continue as it always has, but I doubt that the institutions will ever again be somewhere to learn about the humanities, except in gated communities like the Ivies.

>>3084527
Too many people are getting into college. It should be the exclusive domain of landed elites.

>>3089357
It's /pol/. What did you expect?

>>3086339
Schooling and setting the mind straight can be very important. You can be an athlete with all the talent in the world but usually you'll need a coach to guide you and refine that talent. Same deal with education. Again the problem comes from a glut of college enrollment for monetary purposes lowering the standards, the takeover of academia by those on the far left and a moving away from the classical education curriculum, lack of focus on the Classics, etc.

>>3088182
Fuck off, commie.

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>>3090475

>>3090475
>falling for the jew b8

>>3089443
There's also the social stygma

>if you don't have a 4 years bachelor + a 2 years masters AT LEAST you are a retarded nigger and should kill yourself

the self-education crowd isn't being realistic in this thread. Most people can't be expected to study in a dedicated way or learn all required information to be effective at a trade. You can't standardize society based on youtube lectures and posts you read on reddit

>>3090989
That's a good point. Though there could exist some kind of widely-accepted, populist alternative. Imagine Khan Academy or Lynda got university accreditation, or was allowed to award certificates. They might not be free services anymore, but they could still be standardized, curated, and significantly cheaper.

>>3090989
Depends on the job yo.
polisci and humanitites, basically anything non quantitative can be learned from a youtube video.
Also, the ones who do get a formal education in those fields aren't as educated as they like to think either.

See vid related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzCl0eWsbYY

>Max Boot
>Max Boot (born September 12, 1969) is an American author, consultant, editorialist, lecturer, and military historian.
>. He is now Jeane J. Kirkpatrick Senior Fellow in National Security Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations
>Boot wrote numerous articles with the CFR in 2003 and 2004.[15][16] The World Affairs Councils of America named Boot one of "the 500 most influential people in the United States in the field of foreign policy" in 2004. He also worked as member of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) in 2004.
>Boot served as a foreign policy adviser to Senator John McCain in his 2008 United States presidential election bid
tl;dr Political elites are fucking retarded

>>3084527
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I thought his had a 20 freeze on topics! I leave you people for ten months and this is what I see....

>>3091091
U wot m8?

>>3091078
>can be learned from a youtube video.
The main problem with this line of thinking is that critical thinking skill aren't inherent (nor are they really taught during compulsory education), so self-educated people really have no way of knowing what they're doing. The possibility of learning complete bullshit far outweighs a a good self-education. Just look at /pol/, Sargon, Holocaust deniers, or anyone who posts redpilled information here. Most of those people genuinely think they're well informed and have a better sense of history than most people. The Dunning-Kruger effect is a real thing, and it makes good self-education almost impossible.

>>3091129
>implying info that is red pilled is inherently wrong
Not even a /pol/tard. If academics were as educated as they think, they would realize that there is no such thing as an objective historical record, just different events and perspectives to justify the popular ideological perspective of the time. Basically for social sciences and humanities you don't need any critical thinking, you just need to regurgitate what you're spoon fed.

>>3091142
>they would realize that there is no such thing as an objective historical record, just different events and perspectives to justify the popular ideological perspective of the time
That's the basis of postmodern thought in modern scholarship, which does exist. It's also something that most people here seem to hate exists.

>>3091162
But that's the thing, they don't practice what they preach. They push their own narratives including feminist perspectives, minority perspectives, and progressive perspectives. Instead turning post modern thought on their own biases, they end up perpetuating the cycle of one flawed ideology superseding another

>>3091173
>They push their own narratives
As part of a multivocal dialogue about history. The point of people narrowing their focus about a specific area like that is to cover a specific topic so it can be examined alongside other things. It's an attempt to get at those different perspectives you were talking about. If you don't realize that (or see how it's useful), and just whine about people discussing things you don't like, you're part of the problem you're talking about.

You can't have it both ways. It's ridiculous to complain that historians are supposedly regurgitating some kind of unified, spoon-fed narrative and criticize people for offering different perspectives.

>>3091192
>multivocal
>still suppresses dissent from their own ideological narrative
Nah, and that gets to the bottom of it right there. That whole attitude your post embodies is the reason why Trump got elected president

>>3091240

>le trump THIS IS WHY HE WON

>im so edgy xDD

>>3091240
Way to create a boogeyman to rail against. This is why people who don't understand how academia works shouldn't criticize it. Or use it to make political points, for that matter (and yes, that goes for both sides; SJWs are just as bad as anti-intellectuals).

>>3084527
That's not Marcus in your pic, it's Caracalla.

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>>3091279
Did somebody say Kurukulla?

>>3084527
>I am a master in the Jewish conspiracy after watching 4 videos on this
Also what your job is decides whether you need to go to uni or not, the fault lies in the exponential growth of the middleclass that's it

>>3091240
You do realise there are three interpretations of the holocaust right, and the focus subject of ww1 has changed over 100 years

>>3091173
Id love to see this proof that all university professors are all extreme left reactionaries

>>3091261
>This is why people who don't understand how academia works shouldn't criticize it.

In a world where numerous fields, psychology and phyisology, have trouble replicating something like 40% to 50% of papers.

Take a step back. Remember all the dumb shit you had to endure as a kid.
"Grains and carbs are good! Eat 3 meals a day! Limit fat, cholesterol, and salt!"
"Say no to drugs"

And a million of other things. When people think of academics and bureaucrats, they think of Taleb's "Intellectual yet Idiot" who thinks their recommendations are bound in iron-clad fact and reasoning. Hell, there's even a correlation between fluoride in the water and lower IQ.

The older I get, the more I realize that a significant portion of experts lack any ability to judge the validity of any of their bullet point items they want to propagandize. If you try to get a nutritionist, odds are that...
1. She will be fat
2. She can't explain the biochemistry of metabolism
3. A cunt

>>3087262
>They study because they want money, and ironically they keep being ignorant retards even if they become "professionals".
This. Do you know how many electrical engineers who cant fix their own PC or even figure out simple shit like finding unsaved documents? Like new graduates who are 24-25 who joined or some 35 year old hack. Same shit.

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I need one of you homos to explain why this wouldn't work

>eliminate all federal guarantees for student loans
>eliminate all tax deductions for tuition
>introduce a universally available 100% free education for people with high enough performance in high school
>free ride is only available to top third or so of performers
>in order to take advantage of said free ride, students need to score high on an algorithm composed of GPA, SATs, interview scores, and anything else that computers find to be correlated with future performance
>affirmative action is made illegal in any taxpayer funded institution
>everyone who didn't get the free ride to college, but isn't a complete dipshit, is allowed to enter vocational education free of charge
>cram as much learning as possible into high school rather than college, and allow high school students to major in specific concentrations
>less people now attend college
>college degree now worth more
>people aren't spending 100,000 for a certificate that says they can do an office job

Obviously it couldn't happen in the US, but maybe China could do it after they kick our punk asses.

>>3088168
I don't know what to decide. On one hand, much of what I learned at college that was useful was by myself, with the content of classes being banal or basic highschool stuff. On the other hand if not for college I would probably had not started to do research by myself.

>>3085534
>get bullied and screamed at by minorities, women, effete "men" and bourgeois kids LARPing as Marxist revolutionaries.

I can feel the angst in these words you just typed. Which is funny because its not a real problem and you should get off 4chan every-once in a while.

Too many people + technology getting rid of jobs rather than creating it.

I don't think humanity is capable of handling this much success and convenience, so we are ruining ourselves with prosperity.

>>3091586
>technology getting rid of jobs rather than creating it.
This is the funniest of all. The mainstream always says that technology will create new jobs but all it does is eliminating them.

And the normies believe it

>>3088896
>but my country is a sewer for these things
At least the Etruscan legacy is retained. Sorry Italy bro, life sucks like it always has, welcome to the game of realization and future self deceit.

>>3088777
And I'll be watching it all burn from the comfyness of my basement

>>3091142
>what is historiography

>>3090475
Nothing communist in that post, it's actually about how capitalism improved the universities and led to the evolution of philosophy.

>>3089505
Not an argument.

>>3090989
>>3091067
>>3091078

This is extraordinary. You think there's some absolute value to a humanities education that exists outside the marketplace. There isn't. The reason you think there's something wrong with humanities education is that it doesn't lead to work, how is a self-administered humanities education that doesn't have even the relatively restricted link to the elites that exists in the institutions' humanities programs going to be any different? There are only a handful of schools whose humanities programs will get you anywhere in society, and they're basically the same ones that have existed since university was the preserve of the elites. Educate yourself because it's worth doing for its own sake, but don't expect that some funny-money certificate is going to make it even as worthwhile in career terms as a community college + no-name state shithole transcript, because it isn't.

>>3091461
Right, so now we arrive at the cracker anti-intellectualism which all criticism of universities usually ends up with online.

How do we get the peasantry off of the internet? It was so much better without them.

>>3091515
China wouldn't do that, although they're no longer really Communist, their society is still based on the idea that any job can be done by any person.

>>3091554
It isn't, really. There are things you can't say in university. I knew this going in back when I went, so it didn't bother me; it amused me to play the game. There are others who care, though, and they do find themselves isolated and despised. I've heard first-hand accounts of this happening.

>>3090989
Nobody is saying that, it's just a way of saying that the current system has turned to shit that even a youtube lecture is more useful.

>>3091129
I started on /pol/ and thanks to that I got the motivation to start looking into topics with more detail, which admittedly did eventually lead me to leave. But mostly because I was starting to find their attitude a bit obnoxious, not because I disagreed with them on everything.

>>3091554
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8

>>3091129
This is an appeal to authority.

>>3091129

Can't forget flat earthers either.

>>3093394
Mentally ill people and shitposters shouldn't factor into this.

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>>3093332

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>>3088041
>The more people who are educated to higher levels the better.
In what way? What benefits are brought by people spending more time and money to fill their head with useless trivia that they will never use? College is simply overkill for the overwhelming majority of the workforce.
If they really want to stuff their head with useless trivia, they can go to the public library and do it at there own pace completely free of charge

>The problem is not that to many people are getting degrees...
That actually IS the problem. In the United States alone, there are about 20 million people enrolled in college and well under a million jobs on the market that require a college degree. Even assuming every last person in college is not aspiring to some laughable meme degree, there are some 19 million people who are going to get screwed no matter how you look at it.

A college degree has something in common with Petroleum, lumber, coal or copper; It is a resource. Any resource whose supply vastly overshadows it's demand will suffer devaluation. That is a basic principle of Economics and college degrees are not magically exempt from this notion

>...It's that we are not reorganizing societal systems to account for them.
Hang on, let me see if I understand
>The problem is not that people are not getting useless degrees or that there are way to many people getting degrees altogether, the problem is that everybody else is not going out of their way to accommodate the boneheaded life decisions of short sited young adults
Spoken like a true college kid! Enjoy wasting 4+ years of your life learning absolutely nothing that you will ever have a practical application for. For your own sake, I hope you live somewhere where tuition is "free"

>>3092948
>This is extraordinary. You think there's some absolute value to a(n)... education that exists outside the marketplace.
Yes, I do think that. It seems this all eventually boils down to whether you and I perceive education as self improvement or education as job training.

Hard mode: if I become an employer one day, and I believe that education is more than just job training, then job candidates with degrees will have a better shot at getting employment with my company than the candidates without a degree. And that will affect the market. But you don't have to imagine a hypothetical me in some unlikely future scenario. That is what already happens, because there are millions of others who see an education as having some value outside the marketplace. It's one of the two main stances with regards to education. And when they are employers, ironically it affects the marketplace.

>>3094458
Different guy, but
>Yes, I do think that. It seems this all eventually boils down to whether you and I perceive education as self improvement or education as job training.
Question for you. Is self improvement through education possible without academic institutions?

>Hard mode: if I become an employer one day, and I believe that education is more than just job training, then job candidates with degrees will have a better shot at getting employment with my company than the candidates without a degree. And that will affect the market. But you don't have to imagine a hypothetical me in some unlikely future scenario. That is what already happens, because there are millions of others who see an education as having some value outside the marketplace. It's one of the two main stances with regards to education.

Hello, there. HR manager here. For most jobs that aren't R&D related (which is a good 98%, I couldn't give two squirts of piss about somebodies education level. Really all they have to do to get and maintain a job is show up on time and not fuck up. that's it. Interestingly, I've actually been finding myself steering away from college graduates as of late as they are lacking in work experience, self entitled, thinking they deserve everything, have sub par communication and social skills, remarkably absent minded, have an incredibly difficult time handling the basic components of life in the work force, especially when speaking in regards to the 20-30 age group

>And when they are employers, ironically it affects the marketplace.

Funny you should mention that. The very person I replaced was actually some vapid airheaded cunt who thought that it's not physically possible to be an competent person without a college degree and hired only college graduates. It's amazing how much are work force has improved since that policy was revised. I wonder if the rest of the work force has/will come to same conclusions me and my company have

>>3095077
So?

>>3088285
Me too, class of 98', Alabama

>thread still alive
Have a bump

>>3084527
Someone on Twitter was literally arguing for ever that Marcus Aurelius was a negro.

>>3098298
Everybody was black back in the day.

We all know George Washington was black as well

>>3084527
The only thing you've ever needed to get a job is connections.

>>3098726
Or using your brain

>>3098726
This

>>3091142
thats the first thing you learn when studying history you mong

>>3091240
that's a product of academic specialization as much as any agenda getting pushed. as specialization increases, it also increases competition to justify the "utility" of one's subject in the academic marketplace so whatever trendy ideology or historical fashion prevails at the time will get privileged, and right now that's gender and queer shit.

>>3091461
>Hell, there's even a correlation between fluoride in the water and lower IQ.
[citation needed]
and what's more correlation is not the same thing as causation.

>3085557
(you) don't even deserve a (you)

>>3094644
What are you a hr manager for?

>>3099970
I work for a manufacturer. We are based in the southwest United States. That is all I will say about myself

>>3088230
Culture only exists in retrospective. In the present, it's merely "things that happen".

>>3094644
>Question for you. Is self improvement through education possible without academic institutions?
Yes, absolutely. The fact I think that self improvement through education is possible without academic institutions is exactly why I believe that academic institutions will always exist. Think of soccer/football. Soccer only requires a fairly cheap ball, a little flat land, and a couple things to symbolize the goal. Because it's so easy to access, and also because it's a personally rewarding endeavor (gets you fit, you can hang out with friends, etc.), soccer has entrenched itself absolutely everywhere. And because people want to play soccer, they make soccer fields and stadiums, where they come together and engage in the sport.

Now, soccer is just a game, and like all other games, it will replaced by some other. But education has been around long enough that I feel confident in calling it a constant, lest some nuclear apocalypse happens and we go back to the stone age. It has a very low entry barrier: all you need to educate yourself are books, or, lacking that, just your senses to observe the world around you. And it is personally rewarding: for some, it's fun to learn more or discover something new. So, even in some future highly automated scenario in which education becomes useless beyond its hobbyist aspects, it will still retain its hobbyist aspects. Therefore, hobbyists will continue to collect in universities (or something like them) to teach each other things, as they did before education was seen as an economic investment.

>I wonder if the rest of the work force has/will come to same conclusions me and my company have
It's possible. Capitalism is a system designed to make money, so if some businessman writes some influential book saying more money can be made by hiring fewer college grads, and it turns out that it's true ENOUGH to create a trend, then that conclusion would be adopted everywhere eventually.

>>3101061
Really makes you think

>>3085534
>being able to create a person who could think, speak, argue and observe the world in a rational and critical manner.
>jettison critical theory
Pick one and only one.

>>3091515
this picture is quite appropriate because I'd rather be caught reading tentacle porn than some pleb publication like the Economist.

>>3101979
why is the economist so bad honestly senpai

I was in a doctor's office yesterday and read their piece on Fidel Castro from around his death, shit was riddled with poor journalism and blanket statements

>>3101979
Agreed. Sucks ass

>>3091261
>This is why people who don't understand how academia works shouldn't criticize it.
No one has ever had to understand how something works to recognize it as defective.

>>3091461
>say no to drugs is bad

fuck off hedonist

>>3103469
Mmmmkay?

>>3087261
>4. Additionally, the standardization of education with the 2002 No Child Left Behind Act and the 2010 Common Core has removed the need for teachers in K-12 education. It will inevitably be extended to "core" college classes, as employers find that more and more graduates are low quality and need more training.

Can you expand a bit here on what this all means?

>>3085557
>have no college degree
>have 7 inch penis
>4cars
>3 homes
>decent library
>6 income producing properties
>well traveled

loling at u brainlet college cuck

>>3088135
kek I knew you were talking about here.

>>3104223
Kek

>>3084527
Didn't read your whole post. I do think it's kind of crazy that you have to spend 4 years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars, to prove that you are capable of even the most menial jobs. I can't see how that is at all good for the economy.

>data entry. 20bucks/hour
>Reconcile customer invoices as needed, follow up with the customer. Input employee hours and process checks every 2 weeks. Other projects as needed to assist management.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem to me like you need to be a genius to do the above. Wouldn't it make more sense to have some sort of specialized training program you would pay for, than to send someone off to fuck around at school for 4 years and no good reason?

>>3084527
>pragmatics
Eat shit.
>>3085534
Humanism belongs in the pyre. Rationality and criticality are both the worst memes to ever exist, next to humanism.

>>3091078
>polisci and humanitites, basically anything non quantitative can be learned from a youtube video.
False.

>>3092822
Reddit in a bottle

>>3091515
Fuck off, STEMsperg. UBUBUBUB MUH SCIENCE

>>3092948
>Getting somewhere
>good
t. ideologue

>>3094076
>MUH PRACTICAL APPLICATION
Back to /r/eddit

>>3094644
>are work force
Fuck off, pajeet.

>>3084527
>literally learn more and quickier with a book or a youtube video than wasting a semester in 4 courses made up of 99% speculative theories and 1% actual knowledge to learn what the book or video teach

Stopped reading here, underage please go

>>3088038
Ivies are absolute trash.

>>3093323
>there are bullies at school so why attend them?

>>3101922
>jettisoning of a lot of the Marxist/post-modern bullshit like critical theory
>bullshit

You got so triggered you didn't even read all of what he wrote.

>>3088486
I bet you're going to a community college

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>>3105190

>>3104847
>MUH FOLLOW MY WHIMSICAL DREAMS, EVEN IF IT WASTES YEARS OF MY LIFE AND GETS ME TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT
Back to tumblr, bitch

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>>3104853
>Found the dumbass who fell for the college scam
Don't feel bad, m8. You're not the only one

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>>3088097
I can only imagine what kind of braindead fuck spent time making that "info" graphic. Don't post it here ever again. Not only does it fail to offer any new information to the reader it does so in a contrived, laborious and self conflating manner.

>>>>useless arts major things: made a "funny" info graphic! Reddit loves it!

Go fuck yourself.

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>>3105950
Yuu maddo?

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>>3106126
>Trollface
Sure is last decade in here

>but more importantly
Fuck off, plebbit

Schools have always been shit and have always been designed to produce obedient workers.

I mean, even in college you only learn shit that is tailored to increase your utility in a market, just like 150 years ago schools were used to create obedient soldiers and factory workers.

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There's also an exaggerated "degreeization". In Germany you need a 6 years degree to work as a carpenter. AS A FUCKING CARPENTER

You are also required a degree to work as a gardener. Similar thing in Finland

>>3106282
> In Germany you need a 6 years degree to work as a carpenter. AS A FUCKING CARPENTER
No way. Is that real?

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>>3104103
Sure, the shift is towards the feelings of the student rather then the proven ability of the student. The criteria being met is irrelevant so long as it appears an effort was made, regardless of how ineffectual that effort may have been. This is much more akin to a the way in which a hospitality industry operates rather than a contractual obligation to present data in a accessible format to the student. The educator is put in the position of nanny rather than authority from which point they are open to criticism in the form of opinion rather than fact. Which is inherently dangerous because it lends credence to faddish perceptions of authenticity/political correctness rather than strict adherence to accuracy.. ie: doesn't fit the narrative lets pretend it didn't happen rather than "interestingly contrary to the hypothesis this is what actually happened!".

If the only point of college is to get a job after graduation, why not just do STEM? You can learn about humanities without going to a university, and you'll have the ability to have a halfway decently paying job once you get out.

t majored in engineering, making decent money at a factory now

>>3107299
> If the only point of college is to get a job after graduation, why not just do something with a professional matriculation like a lawyer or a doctor? You can learn about mathematics, physics, humanities, trades without going to a university, and you'll have the ability to have a halfway decently paying job once you get out.

> t majored in nothing, making decent money at my business with self learned skills now

>>3089271
Or maybe you just went to a shit school and/or didn't take any upper division classes my dude

Everyone in this thread claiming that college has been perversed from this "bastion of education" into a modern day job training program is a fool. The original purpose of nearly all universities from the very beginning was as a job training program. First for clerics, later doctors and lawyers. The addition of other general knowledge fields came about only when interests in those areas became large enough amongst the staff, that what could be a "school" or modern day department could be formed, but the main purpose of the university was still to churn out clerics and other professionals. There is a reason why Newton was expected to take vows once he became Lucasian professor. College has always been about obtaining employment, but it has only been recently where traditional paradigm of an education to fit the job has been reversed whereby people search for a job to fit their education.

this thread is a shitfest. Are you damned for studying anything besides STEM in university today?

>politicization
>poor methodology
>lack of real world transfer

it's bigger than just "well, education is free on the internet now lol"

>>3107405
>google salaries for different degrees
>major in something that makes moni
>??????
>profit

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>>3107424

>>3087262

>>3089244
>even overwhelming preference for students of wealthy families.

Or perhaps rich families can more easily afford to game the current system that is college admissions. As it is now, degrees holders are fast becoming a new form aristocracy, passing down not wealth and holdings but access to higher paying jobs. Note how easily the standardized tests can be gamed, how grades can be simply inflated by attending a "prestigious" prep school where subtle grade inflation is passed under the radar because of prestige. Note how simply moving to the more expensive neighborhood down the block, your child now attends a school with standard issue ipads, whereas before the schools computer lab still ran XP.

>>3106282
Can confirm

>>3107267
Shouldn't standardized testing (which seems to draw a lot o ire) fix that problem though?

>>3084527
>>3085534
Greater academia has always been about this though. For centuries only a small percentage of learned people actually contributed to intellectual discoruse and that continues today. Universities turn out lots of people and only a small percentage learn and build upon their knowledge in their field (college research be professors etc.) You're not describing a change in academia, you're describing what academia has always been.

>>3089357
>but rarely do I hear complete fabrications.
>on /pol/
ahahahahahaha

>>3104223
>have 7 inch penis
Man you're lucky, I had to spend 35k in tuition and 5 years to get my 6'5" dick

>>3089357
Is this sarcasm or what?

>>3108598
if tests are standarized the teachers would complain about how easy is to know the exercises and people would simply share them via internet.

Although I'd agree

>>3093323
Kek

>>3105190
There's no reason desu

>>3086340
Civil/enviro engineering is actually one of the careers that has a very small chance of being automated according to a study by Oxford, ranked 84/702 where a lower rank means less able to be automated, with a 0.019 probability to be automated on a scale where 0 is unautomatable and 1 is guaranteed automated. It is lower than jobs such as Mathematicians and Lawyers.

http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Future_of_Employment.pdf

Scroll all the way down for the chart

>>3112478
>muh papers
Stage 1: denial

>>3088097
DONT ARGUE WITH ME ON THE INTERNET: The comic.

Also where does making a comic to refute anybody who argues with you rank on the dick scale?

>>3084527
Everyone is told they need a college degree or they are a failure. School start being run like businesses to try and lure these mental midgets in and they start offer worthless participation degrees.

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>>3112478

>>3113456
It's the meta-level

>>3113860
That's because no one likes feeling like an idiot at the bottom of the socioeconomic totem pole and they want socioeconomic mobility

>>3084527
>having a diploma
Found the problem

>thread still alive

There's something I don't really understand about this whole situation, mainly because it's a different problem entirely in my country and most European ones. It has to do with economics and it seems really contradictory.

As an employer your goal is to maximize profits, you do this by reducing the costs and increasing the price and so on. Having employees with high productivity means you've successfully achieved your goal. That being the case, the only criteria that should matter when employing someone is how productive are they going to be, right? So why do employers hire people with diplomas, masters, PHDs and other degrees that don't amount to productivity over, say, experienced people with a good history that are known to take their job seriously and be good at it? Is there a tax relief granted for hiring fresh students? Do they just do it for PR or something? Why don't companies eliminate the need of degrees altogether by tutoring their future employees under a contract that states they can't quit for X years, wouldn't that be more profitable?

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>>3112478
>this level of denial

Prepare a comfy blanket, anon

>>3118467
Some times its the law. You legally need certain degrees for lots of public sector and some private sector jobs.

A lot of the time though its because a degree is seen as proof you know what you're doing.

There are places that do apprenticeship-like programs like you're suggesting, although typically you're not actually trained right on-the-job. Usually they send you to a local technical school or university to get your degree/certification there. They usually have deals worked out with local educational facilities. The employer sends prospective employees to the school at a discount, which the school is willing to give since its typically a lot of students. In return, the employer knows exactly what kind of education their employees are getting.

>>3105190
That's not just another student. The screaming harpy is a school employee.

>>3118467
Along with what this Anon said >>3118573 , top universities are invaluable for the connections and networking opportunities it gives its alumni and also serves a winnowing basket that seperates the lazy and unmotivated from the hardworking and intelligent. Its a battle royale where the winners go on to become the future elite and the losers must become the underclass.

Also, a contract that forbids quitting is likely unenforceable. You can make the employee pay you back the money spent in training but you cannot forbid them to quit, just as many noncompetes are unenforceable.

>>3118467
>most european ones
Not so here in Italy where nepotism is what gets you the job over the degree

>tfw Italy isn't Europe
>tfw we truly third world

>>3119178
I guys you could say Italy is nothing more then the dirty BOOT of Europe

>>3119250
Kys Hans

University is a meme since post WW2

>this thread is almost 1 week old

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>>3104103

>Can you expand a bit here on what this all means?

The 2002 NCLB mandated three things: one, that all states adopt standardized exams and two that all states must submit that data to the Federal government and three that said data would be used to determine how much money schools would be allotted. Better exam performance means more money. It was a "european style" thing that was supposedly going to make black students smart. The effect, as intended, worked flawlessly: teachers unions were totally broken and the lowest 10% of students simply expelled at the school's earliest convenience (consider the implication of Zero Tolerance behavior policies). Most schools saw little change in performance, however teacher pay costs dropped hard as now teachers either had to teach to the exam or get fired. Their collective bargaining agreements were rendered worthless by Federal law handled funding.

However, this created fifty competing standards, so the publishing industry naturally consolidated around one Common Core which Obama effectively made the Federal standard in 2010. As all weekly CC exams are multiple-choice, this allows for almost daily tracking of student performance. It also allows online learning to be, from a functional standpoint, almost equivalent to that of a school. There's been massive growth in the private tutoring/school market as a result, who dump kids off in front of a computer and have them do the bare minimum three hours a day needed to get a legal highschool diploma.

As a result, college freshmen are stupider than ever which most colleges cannot handle. This has resulted in graduates being stupider than ever, which will naturally result in all/most major industries demanding colleges to adopt some "core" standards they can rely on. When this happens, the occupation of "professor" will be broken like the occupation of "teacher" was.

>>3107267

This isn't true especially at the college level. How students feel (largely betrayal) when faced with a massive supply crisis that causes extreme bell curve grading, credit banking semesters (eg taking classes just to accumulate enough credits to get into your real classes), ridiculously high application standards, and high tuition costs. Students are by and large told to fuck off, the only "feelings" college administrations are concerned with are ensuring that nothing racist happens because that will instigate a pissing match on their property.

>The educator is put in the position of nanny rather than authority from which point they are open to criticism in the form of opinion rather than fact.

This is true, but the educator themselves has no power. Everything is decided through the computerized exams until college.

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>something collapses under marxism

wow im so shocked

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>>3087261

Neil Postman wrote a lot on this in his book "End of Education" too. I highly recommend it.

>>3106282
Well, on the upside, i'd imagine Germany isn't short of good carpenters, plus i doubt that you're not allowed to sell your own carpentry without a degree.

>>3088111
There isn't even a government in Fahrenheit 45, choose different words next time

>>3122572
>i doubt that you're not allowed to sell your own carpentry without a degree.
You can't WORK as a carpenter without the degree to begin with, amerifat.

>>3123297
Truth. Specially the last paragraph.

I just finished my undergrad in history and am heading into my Master's at the University of Toronto in September.

I'm not delusional; I know that my degree is hardly the financially right decision to make, but most of my schooling is paid for my the school regardless.

However, I have learned an immense amount about history and how to become a historian in my four years. Shit I couldn't learn from youtube videos and pop-history books. If you get through a degree and feel you sincerely learned just as much as someone who watched youtube videos, I frankly think your school is trash or you must be gravely mistaken.

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>>3123820
>a fucking leaf
>needs to go to school to learn history
Figures

>>3122548
why exactly did this make graduates stupider? I don't see the connection here

>>3085698
>criminals in jail can freely study
>before study "sacáte la michila negro!"
>after study "sacáte la michila africano-americano!"

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>>3123820

>>3124059
Kek

>>3122563
Interesting, thanks

>>3084527
>be student in early XX century
>BA and Ph.D in 6 years
>be student today
>12+ years to finish Ph.D
>"you aren't trying hard enough"

>>3084527
>computer engineering student
>do paid consulting for 90% of semester
>learn content in last 10%
>graduate
>work in tech industry

University is easy if you skip the useless shit they try to teach you

>2017
>goimg to college

>>3129609
>goimg
Maybe you need it, tho

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>>3123945

Bump :^)

Academia won't collapse as long as government backed loans prop the whole thing up.

Employers have no incentive to do anything other than hire grads over non grads, even for low skills jobs.

Many colleges have little incentive to do anything other than maximise student enrollment.

Many fields are simply leftist prioagandising.

That's basically it. What more is there to say when it's all propped up by government loans?

Of course stupid people mention "enrichment" or "growing as a person" , not realising the subjectivity of these terms and in fear of a lack of government subsidy. What else can you say?

>>3134437
loans right?what if universities were free and you could enter just by taking exams?

>>3123715
This.

>>3135452
Still gay

>>3123297
This

>>3130405
Yeah nah ur a cunt

>>3139456
Nice argument you got there buddy

>>3091279
Caracalla was a nickname; it's the name of a Gallic tunic he always wore and made fashionable. His real name was Marcus Aurelius Severus Antoninus Augustus.

>>3084527
education is going to collapse because it is meaningless. If you didn't let people mention their degrees in job apps (AKA degrees are only worth what they directly teach you), most colleges would die with a year.

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>>3085534
I agree.

>>3085534
> And yes, the education bubble will eventually collpase.
Nice

As /pol/lack it always amazes the capricious nature of thread longevity on a medium paced board like /his/. Threads can burn out in a single night, fall off the board in a single day from lack of interest or somehow last for weeks on end kept buoyant by a single periodic bump.

>polisci
>non-quantitative

What shit school did you go to?

>>3141661
>>>/pol/

>>3084527
>hyperrealistic """"""art""""""
>worth anything
nigga that's what we have cameras for

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>>3141661
Your kind is not welcome here

>>3087262
Spot on.

Higher education should only be for people who want to do it.

>>3090777
Underrated post.

My friend felt pressured into going to uni because school pushed the narrative of "higher education is essential" and now he's stuck doing a degree he doesn't enjoy and isn't even good at.

>>3141661
yeah that's what it's like when your board actually has a culture of its own instead of being an amalgamation of reddit and stormfront

>>3144782
/his/ """culture""" is just like /ck/'s. There, agressive poorfagism expresses itself as sour grapes, so the vast majority of discussion is about fast food and anything seen as being "elitist" is shat on by a large proportion of the posters (never mind that one can eat at several Michelin starred restaurant for less than the steakhouses that get a free pass from these posters by choosing prix fixe lunch dining).

Similarly /his/ seems to have a large number of posters that are motivation poor; so you have a thread up for a week where an OP has exaggerated real problems with the university system to the point that they earnestly seem to suggest that one can learn more from a youtube video than from a semester long course which will have been designed to gather a broad range of sources together, to teach about historiography, to navigate students through the major historiographical debates of the period in question. It's an absurdity that stinks of sour grapes from somebody lacking motivation who didn't pursue opportunities given to them in high school.

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>>3144071

>>3145655
>muh degree

>>3088519
Colleges have a bunch of fucking useless staff, man. And they overspend on shit that's irrelevant to studies like recreation centers and whatnot to attract students. All to keep the nonprofit status.

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>>3084527
>Tfw actually want to intellectually better myself
>Tfw just want resources and connections to turn my single passion into career
>All I ever hear is doom and gloom
>Lawl meme degree
>Muh automitation
>500k debt guranteed
Is it even worth it. All I know how to do is read and write and all anyone says on this website is its not worth it. Is it really that impossible to become an academic this day and age?

>>3145655
>going on /ck/ to begin with
Fat fuck / woman detected. Probably both.

>>3108598

Standardized testing doesn't actually do anything anymore, at least in the U.S. Hypothetically, and in other places it seems, standard testing would ensure all students going through a public learning institution are on the same level. When that level is set so low that Daquan can pass without hardly being able to read it benefits no one.

In addition, and having somewhat recent experience with tests like this, no one seems to be able to decide on what system to standardize. About 4 years ago now when I finished highschool there were 2 new iterations of state tests being developed simultaneously and issued to the grade below me, and shortly after I left they changed the way the SAT was scored. Despite an incredible demand for continued development of common core standards, many kids simply don't even learn what they need to know to pass the test in 4 years, and at least when I took the test blank answers were not scored. That's pretty fucked.

Le bump :^)

>>3087262
> Funnily so much emphasis is put on school and high school and the importance of it but at the end of the day it's considered garbage if everybody doesn't go to university.
This. This so fucking much

>if you don't go to school you'll be an ignorant and won't find any job!
>finishes school
>oh btw, school is useless, if you don't go to high school you'll be an ignorant and won't find any job!
>finishes high school
>oh btw, high school is useless, if you don't go to university you'll be an ignorant and won't find any job!
>finishes university
>oh btw, university is useless, if you don't go for a masters degree you'll be an ignorant and won't find any job!
>finishes masters degree
>oh btw, masters are useless, if you don't go for a Ph.D you'll be an ignorant and won't find any job!

Bonus:
>end doing some depressing soulless job for some big corpo
>kys

>>3091554
I have seen, with my own two eyes, white men be "bullied and screamed at by minorities, women, effete 'men' and bougeois kids LARPing as Marxist revolutionaries." It is not at all uncommon. This is the new reality of campus life.

>>3150059
If you didn't realize it in the middle, ur a moron

>>3150059
Lol true

>>3087262
This

>>3147838
Not impossible, but don't be surprised when you have debt you can't pay off for most of your life.

>>3147838
No it isn't

We are at 280, c'mon guys we can do it :^)

>>3087103
Hopefully.

Yes, along with capitalism and the entirety of western "civilization".

Good riddance I say.

>>3156363
The thing is: is the decadence of the academia a phenomena on its own, or is it tied to other decadences like capitalism?

>>3087103
Yeah I'd much rather learn about history from some dickwad with a YouTube channel or a /his/ anon than from a professor reared in the discipline in a genealogy of historians going back millennia

>>3088074
t. le master intellectual gamestop employee

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>>3157400
>a professor reared in the discipline in a genealogy of historians going back millennia

>>3157775
>perroposting

>>3147883
This

>>3160388
Literally four of these dumb threads bitching about academia on the frontpage of /his/.

You're the cancer that is killing /his/. Kill yourself.

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>>3160401

>>3084527
You need drive and ambition. People have made huge fortunes with little or no college.

>>3085534
>so they can get bullied and screamed at by minorities, women, effete "men"
>things that happen in /pol/ fantasies

>>3088038
>Duke
loving
every
laugh

>2 weeks
Le bump :^)

>297

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>>3084527
>>3085534
>tfw European
>tfw your education system won't be affected by this
Thanks God I've never had to deal with any of these problems, and you know how much I've spent on it? 35$/year (and I'm talking about taxes, there was no university fee).

>>3162792

>>3085698

>>3162804
Do you realize that widespread education is an achievement, right? You guys are only complaining about the loss of the aristocratic status that was linked to the archetype of the intellectual and scholar. This is not a problem to me.
Crushing debt, low education standards in public universities, pathetic infrastructures that are not matched by the astronomical costs of your enrollment fees, the inability to pursue education independentky of financial motives (which is apparently something you guys can't stand): this is what scares me about the US.

>>3162843
>stage 1: denial
Every person with university degrees doesn't means a more educated, functional nor organized population. Actually we are witnessing it's problems now

See:
>>3087262
>>3088777

>>3162862
>Every person with university degrees doesn't means a more educated, functional nor organized population. Actually we are witnessing it's problems now
Every person with a university degree means that a larger part of the general population is now educated. Sure, all that knowledge will fly over some people's head, but that does not matter in the slightest. You can't compare the levels of widespread education, talent and professionalism with what was common 100 years ago.
You're basically complaining about an objective improvement only because it does not comform you to your unrealistic expectations, in which every philosophy student turns out to be a Kant and every physics student turns out to be a Maxwell. Mediocrity has always existed, but this should not lead me to believe that this is enough of a proof for me to deny the right to education to my fellow man.

>>3162843
University still has "aristocratic status". Now it goes even further. Paid or not is the same thing.

>I have a masters, I'm better and deserve more money
>I have a Ph.D I'm even better and deserve more money
>etc

t. Free university country (Ireland)

>>3162843
> Do you realize that widespread education is an achievement, right?
Widespread education != anybody going to university

>ou guys are only complaining about the loss of the aristocratic status that was linked to the archetype of the intellectual and scholar
That's exactly what university meant. University was not a job school like it became today. The "aristocratic" value still exists, all those millenials who won't work anything unrelated to their degree and under X money

> Crushing debt, low education standards in public universities, pathetic infrastructures that are not matched by the astronomical costs of your enrollment fees
Not american

> this is what scares me about the US.
The fact that anybody without background check nor a hard exam to enter or some barrier can freely enter university over saturating fields and creating professionals without vocation that only pursue money and will get replaced by cheaper foreigners is more scary desu

>>3084527
african ball players get degrees without any knowledge at all. pajeets just print them and find an employer who fall for it. proffesors are generally dumb fuck political asslickers. schools are for profit machines forced to recruit minority womens for quotas and sex with professors. my pops was a legit professor at MIT and I learned from the inside its mostly bullshit outside of defense research and even there you gotta toe the line or walk. most unis teach litteral lies like einstein nonsense and javascript is great. oh and history classes not even fucking close to reaity

>>3162948
>Widespread education != anybody going to university
>That's exactly what university meant. University was not a job school like it became today. The "aristocratic" value still exists, all those millenials who won't work anything unrelated to their degree and under X money

I have already addressed the existence of mediocre students here >>3162883
While the mentality that bring people to study for money is common, this does not account for the people who are not doing so, not does it account for the fact that there are many more invested students nowadays than in 19th century Europe.
Also you're not mentioning the fact that many fields require mediocre scholars to fill the rank of the lower, necessary projects (low-grade labs for scientists, archive helpers and scholl teaching for the humanities and so on).
Again, it's a non-problem, in fact it's an improvement.

>The fact that anybody without background check nor a hard exam to enter or some barrier can freely enter university over saturating fields and creating professionals without vocation that only pursue money and will get replaced by cheaper foreigners is more scary desu
First of all, a bad philosopher or a bad engineer is not going to do shit (unless he has family connections, but that is not related to these institutions in particular), at best they'll overcrowd the shittier jobs available to their fields.
I'll ignore the last comment, for it was a comment on nationality (academic progress is unrelated to this view of yours) rather than competence.

>>3162981
> pajeets just print them and find an employer who fall for it
Based

>>3163050
If that's true then education for real has no value

>>3088282
what are you doing with that degree now?

>>3112575
>>3118547
Care to explain how you know better than Oxford?

>>3163722
The economic value of a degree is merely incidental, and it is set by the economic circumstances of one's own time.
Tautologically, the value of education is education in itself.

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>>3163911
You must be really retarded to take anything the academia says as holy word and ignoring what happens in the real world

It's like buying all the bibliography instead of checking only the one you actually need

>>3163024
>stage 2: butthurt

Le never ending thread XDD ^_^

£€ ßuMp X^D