Could Pearl Harbor have been prevented?

>>3083742
>Allowing yourself to be attacked as an excuse to get into a war
>we killed your guys because you wouldn't sell us oil so we could keep killing chinamen bu you knew we were going to kill your guys and since you didn't try to stop us from killing your guys you're the bad guys
>we dindu nuffin

fucking japs, holy shit/

>>3083742
If the US knew they were to be attacked at Pearl Harbor, why wouldn't they do something to better prepare for it? Instead of letting their enemy get away untouched they could engage them and inflict causilties. The would hurt the capability of Japan to wage war but still have the declaration of war and public outrage they desired.
Or if that wasn't an option they could have tried to do something about the Phillipines so Japan at least wouldn't be able to steamroll all of SEA

>>3083758

It was actually the Romantic Candlelit Dinner of Nanking, whiteu pig

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>>3083742

Yeah, by shooting the traitor FDR

>>3083767
100% this. If the US knew Pearl Harbor was about to get fucked up and they truly were using it as an excuse to enter the war, why didn't they make preparations? Even if the Japs got BTFO at Pearl Harbor, they still fucking attacked it, which would have been more than enough for the US to declare war.

>>3083782
Bataan life march

>>3083767

You mean like move the carrier fleet out of harms way and conveniently damaging the battleship fleet which was already dragging down the rest of the fleet but had congressional support.

>>3083866
Then deailing to deal a crippling blow to the Japanese fleet with their evacuated carriers or just quickly counterattacking with the battleships and present airfleet then scrapping them after the battle.
Letting the fleet sail away undamaged to take part in the conquest of SEA makes no sense if you just want war with Japan and Germany.

>>3083918
Not to mention the US didn't even declare war on Germany, they declared war on the US.

>>3083864
>mfw Filipino-American.
>mfw the Bataan Death March anniversary is celebrated with the Bataan Fun Run.

>>3083767
Would've raised too many eyebrows

>>3083939
Butall you may have needed to do would be to avert the "mistakes" of the radarcrew missing the incoming Japanese planes or the men discovering the Japanese Subs.

>>3083742
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnbm_eELv1I

>>3083863
>japan attacks USA
>a country several times it's size with a bigger industrial base and population.

Japan was retarded

>>3083939
Literally how?

>>3083742
Is that fair dinkum?

>>3084028
they knew from the very start of the war they would lose, they simply hoped the US would get war weary and make peace before they got fucked up too badly

>>3084085
...what would the actual use of that have been? would it have helped their original problem somehow?

>>3084356
They wanted to take the European colonies in southeast Asia, but couldn't without fighting the US because the US would get involved over the Philippines. The hope was that the USA wouldn't care enough about saving euro colonial possessions to fully mobilize and finish them off.

>>3083782
kek

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>>3084028

Why do Japanese nationalists seem to almost worship Pearl Harbor? It makes no sense to me.
>tfw you punch someone in the back of the head and they proceed to beat you into a bloody pulp but you're still the mighty and powerful one because you got a single hit in

>>3084369
Was the Philippines even strategically important for the Americans?

>>3084442
>Large land mass in the middle of the South China Sea
Are you kidding me? Because the Philippines is very strategically important, the United States makes sure to keep a very healthy military relationship with them. This includes renting out naval bases and performing mixed military exercises. Well, it has been very healthy, until recently anyway, with the breakdown of relations surrounding Duterte's leadership.

>>3083742
Yes, by shooting down all the airplanes.

>>3084442
Are you retarded?

>>3084661
they should have never gave it up. an entire U.S state in Asia,able to project the American military might and also acts as a natural barrier against China.

It's also pretty much in the middle of east and southeast Asia,you can attack Vietnam,China,Japan,Indonesia,etc if you want to

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>>3084695
>they should have never gave it up. an entire U.S state in Asia,able to project the American military might and also acts as a natural barrier against China.

Wasn't really going to happen due to the combo of Philippine Nationalism, the Great Depression BTFOing American farmers, but not Philippine ones, to whom American farmers felt threatened, and also American factions like the Anti-Imperialist League thinking that they're betraying their founding principles by having a colony, nor Protestant Fundies who thought the last thing America needs after all those fucking Irishmen are millions of Asian Catholics, and finally white supremacists who also think that America shouldn't make citizens out of millions of Flips.

>>3084378
what could possibly go wrong?

>>3084695
I mean, we made Hawaii into a state, and people talk about making Puerto Rico into a state, so it's not like it's outside the range of possibility. The Philippines are an archipelago anyway, so it's possible that we could have kept just one island. But none of our other colonial possessions had quite the population of the Philippines, and we shouldn't forget that we've released even less populous (and still strategic) nations, like the Marshall islands.

Releasing a nation while keeping favorable military alliances is a good middle ground. Don't have to deal with separatist screeching, liberal screeching, international diplomatic screeching, etc. at the expense of some tax income, but still get to keep the geopolitical advantage of having colonies all around the world.

That is, until you get a leader like Duterte that has his own plans.

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>>3084378
>that file name

>>3083918

>Then deailing to deal a crippling blow to the Japanese fleet with their evacuated carriers

They did, at Midway, only six months later, after luring the Japanese carriers away from their battle fleet.

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>>3084378

>>3087067
Why would you wait six unpredictable months before dealing your blow to the Japanese forces when you may do it on day one?

>>3087125

>Why would you wait six unpredictable months before dealing your blow to the Japanese forces when you may do it on day one?

Because this is a real war, not your retarded fantasy.

>>3083758
Gotta have the self defence excuse in order to make it justifiable homicide.

>>3087152
>Real war is none in an enormous conspiracy leaking the beans about letting the enemy kill 3000 of your men without as much as fighting back
Sure pal

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Why prevent it if you could just make it even better?

1) Kick Nagumo out of command, he is a battleship advocate not a carrier kind of guy. Put someone else in his place, someone who won't give the order to retreat before sending the final wave.
2)The Japanese knew the location of American ships prior to the attack, and Pearl Harbor base did not know of the incoming Japanese attack. Thus they should have taken the opportunity to make Pearl Harbor a night time attack. The night would cover the Japanese planes, Americans would take longer to react, and the damage would be more massive.
3) While they were at it, why did it have to stop at the air attack? The Combined Fleet had plenty of battleships, cruisers and destroyers. After the initial air attack, they could have sent battleships, cruisers and destroyers to finish off the remnants of the fleet, and maybe find the carriers as well.

Just these three things would have turned Pearl Harbor from a "strategic disaster" to "strategic miracle".

>>3087186
2400*

>>3087188
>150+ carrier based planes in a never-been-done-before night time carrier strike on a pacific island.
>Landing, refueling and rearming for three waves

Anon pls, the mental image makes me giggle

>>3087188
Because Pearl Harbor stretched the limits of Japanese maritime logistics.

You basically may as well ask why the Japanese didn't have the Pearl Harbor attack coordinate with a full-scale Japanese invasion of the Hawaiian Islands.

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>Landing, refueling and rearming for three waves
Take turns. Send in the original two waves, then send the surface combat detachment. While the battleships are sinking what is left of the US Pacific fleet, the carriers are preparing the third wave to bombard the docks, oil fields, anything the battleships didn't destroy.
>>3087243
>Because Pearl Harbor stretched the limits of Japanese maritime logistics.
Wrong. This is absurd. They had crossed thousands of miles of ocean in radio silence to get to the island, why not stiff a few more hundred miles to actually get there and sweep the wreckage after the aerial attack? Even if they were at the limit of their fuel, a tanker would be enough to do the job.
>You basically may as well ask why the Japanese didn't have the Pearl Harbor attack coordinate with a full-scale Japanese invasion of the Hawaiian Islands
Completely different operation which would have a completely different goal. Suggestions were made to improve the Pearl Harbor Plan without changing its fundamental nature (neutralizing the US Pacific Fleet), not some alternate history fantasy where Japan annexes California. Simply attacking the Harbor at night, sending in the surface combat vessels into the Harbor, among a few other things, is not anymore fantastic than what was actually done.

>>3083935
>Bataan fun-run

Holy shit, pics or you are lying, that is too funny to be true

>>3087315
>Even if they were at the limit of their fuel, a tanker would be enough to do the job.
You realize they had to bring eight of those along already, right?

That said, sending an additional wave would probably have been prudent, but would unlikely have been effective given the Japanese goals for the operation. The ships should not have been the real goal, and battleships should not have been prioritized over carriers; if anything, logistics and support buildings should have been the real target. Destroying Pearl Harbor the naval facility would've done far more to cripple the range of the American Pacific fleet than to destroy every last ship in Pearl Harbor.

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>>3087371

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>>3087388
>You realize they had to bring eight of those along already, right?
Yes, they would need what, 2 more at best?
I would go as far as saying they spent a disproportional amount of resources hitting secondary targets like Wake. In hindsight, some of the resources spent on those smaller islands that are farther away from America would have done more proportional damage if used on Pearl.

>>3087419
ultra kek

>>3084356
They hoped Roosevelt would be like a Justin Trudeau. They hoped wrong.
They hoped a quick attack would demoralize the Allies in the Pacific. They hoped wrong.

>>3084695
Japan now took that role.

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>>3087419

Mother of god.

>>3087067
>r, after luring the Japanese carriers away from their battle fleet.
Carriers were not "lured" away. They were meant to operate as a vanguard destroying the US carriers, after which the battleship fleet would sweep up the remnants.

>>3087388
>The ships should not have been the real goal, and battleships should not have been prioritized over carriers; if anything, logistics and support buildings should have been the real target

Do you think the fact that Japan didn't participate (for realz) in WW1 had something to do with that mistake?

>>3087315
Sending surface vessels straight into coastal artillery and mines is pretty fantastic.

>>3084356
Japan's war goal was to capture the Philippines.

>>3087188
>maybe find the carriers as well
I don't think you have any idea just how big the Pacific ocean is.

>>3087419
if you go to pearl harbor today they have a big picture up on a wall of joint US and Japanese naval exercises with the caption forgive but never forget

>>3087419
Why

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>>3087419

Why is this allowed?

>>3087629

The loss of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse shortly after Pearl Harbor had a more demoralizing effect than the harbor attack. Nobody expected for a battleship and a battle-cruiser to be overwhelmed by Japanese aircraft so easily. Even the Japanese were kind of shocked at how easy it was.

>>3087419
I'm a Filipino but I've never heard of this kek

>>3087794
thumbnail looks like a llama

>>3087817
Specifically like a llama piñata.

>>3083939
How would it raise eyebrows?

>We had unconfirmed intelligence that the Japanese were planning an attack. We made preparations, but it was too little too late
Done.

>>3087878
You literally don't even need to let the attack happen, the US completely flipped from anti-war to pro-war over the Zimmerman telegram. Showing proof of an actual Japanese attack on the US being planned would of been enough.

>>3087388
>Destroying Pearl Harbor the naval facility would've done far more to cripple the range of the American Pacific fleet than to destroy every last ship in Pearl Harbor.
The odds of successfully pulling this off, even if focused on the task, are miniscule. Enormously heavy bombing raids by the British on occupied French ports in the ETO, which had the advantages of being able to drop far more tonnage of explosives and to do so repeatedly, only very rarely knocked naval facilities out for very long. The notion that a three wave CVP strike followed up with some battleship shelling could do better is hard to swallow.

Amelia Air Heart was a Japanese spy and is solely responsible for Pearl Harbour

>>3083742
Is that SZS?
>>3087419
>History channel
As if it couldn't get any funnier, lel.