Ancient Egyptians

Modern Egyptians.

>>3083116
South-eastern mediterranean people.

>>3083116
ancient aliens

>>3083119
Modern Egyptians are not monolithic. There is a substantial amount of physical and phenotypical differences among them.

>>3083116
Modern Egyptians, according DNA test

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>>3083124
They are too hairy and pale to fit the description.

>>3083132
>There is a substantial amount of physical and phenotypical differences among them
Just like ancient Egyptians

>>3083136
Ancient Egyptians depilated their whole bodies. It's just simply false that modern egyptians are pale.

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>>3083116
no one will ever come close aestethically
fuck perspective

>>3083140
Why are all the cultures to the north depicted as heavily bearded? Why didn't Egyptians have any cultural continuity with their northern neighbors. It's very unlikely that most men could have afforded to be constantly clean shaven in those times. More likely answer is that they couldn't grow full beards.

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>>3083119
>>3083133
The most recent study concluded that Copts were more similar to ancient Egyptians than muslims

>>3083116
Modern egyptians. No matter how hard nordicists and niggercentrists try to prove it different.

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>>3083198
That guy is Greek.

Pic related are Egyptians.

>>3083198
makes sense, but copts are still modern egyptians

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>>3083208
>The Coptic component evolved out of a main Northeast African and Middle Eastern ancestral component that is shared by other Egyptians and also found at high frequencies among other Afro-Asiatic-speaking populations in Northeast Africa (~70%). The scientists suggest that this points to a common origin for the general population of Egypt. They also associate the Coptic component with Ancient Egyptian ancestry, without the later Arabian influence that is present among other Egyptians.

>>3083198
Copts are still modern Egyptians.

>>3083116
mullatos?

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Swedes

inb4 muh upper Egypt

>>3083116
Pick a time period of ancient Egypt. 3100 bc - 30 bc probably features demographic changes, at the very least in the royalty it certainly does. I can't find the source right now but new research tells us that between the dates of around 2100 bc to ?? (I cant remember but probably 0) the Copt are the closest to ancient Egyptians. If anyone could link the source that would be great.

>>3083706
Why does upper Egypt trigger you so much?

>>3083890
Aesthetically Copts look nothing like the ancient Egyptians depicted themselves.

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>>3083198

>doesn't link the study

>>3083119
>>3083124
>>3083132
>>3083138
>>3083202
>>3083706
>>3083308
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/ancient-egyptians-less-sub-saharan-than.html

Modern "Egyptians" are more Arab and Black than Ancient Egyptians.

>>3084245
Those studied that formed the basis of the ancient DNA samples were not Egyptians. They were Greek invaders.

>>3084258
Bullshit. Greek period didn't last that long.

>The samples recovered from Middle Egypt span around 1,300 years of ancient Egyptian history from the New Kingdom to the Roman Period. Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times.

>>3084245
How would that be possible. Slaves were taken from deep in Africa even during Egyptian times. It is more likely that this discrepancy highlights a potential flaw in using samples entirely from one site to represent the totality of ancient Egyptians.

>>3084262
A northern invasion colliding with Egyptian natives is what sparked dynastic Egypt. So there has been a northern component in Egypt for a very long time.

What would have made modern Egyptians blacker than ancient ones, what event(s). Enslavement of primitive tribes was always a thing in Egypt. To just jump to an unfounded conclusion that they magically became blacker is very unscientific. The truth is that it likely represent s a flaw in their ancient sample base being used to represent ancient Egyptians.

>>3084287
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Kingdom_of_Egypt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_Kingdom

>>3084298
Your point?

>>3083941
I mean maybe? I don't know why it matters about how they depicted themselves when it's so stylized and most of their sculptures vary from looking straight black to middle eastern.

>>3084268
Did all the samples really come from one site? Is this study a fucking meme?

>>3084287
>What would have made modern Egyptians blacker than ancient ones, what event(s)
I'd assume the advent of Islam and the mixing of Bedouins with the Berber and Tuareg peoples of the Sahara that permitted a far greater movement of Sub-Saharan slaves into the North of Africa than had ever been possible.

A similar line of argument could be made for Slavic genes in Anatolia; yeah, the Greeks were enslaving Slavs way before Muslim Steppe Turks were a thing, but the advent of the Crimean Khanate hastened the ability to capture and import slaves into what was then the Ottoman Empire.

>>3084305
Yes. I don't agree with Afrocentric Americans apropriating East African history, but this "study" is laughably unscientific and brings into question the credibility of certain aspects of mainstream academia at large.

WE

>>3084308
That completely ignores that greek historians themselves said Egyptians were Ethiopian colonists.

>>3084328

Greeks also said Georgians are form Ethiopia

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>>3084336
If the notion of a whiter ancient Egypt was true, then why didn't they depict themselves as such. Why did the color themselves darker than levantines and Greeks? They lacked beards and wore microbraids.

Notice how half the "Nubians" in this pic are the same color as the Egyptian.

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>>3084336
They might be. Ethiopian tribes did migrate all the way to Europe, and become the "Jews" we know today.

>>3084360

They depicted themselves as tan. I don't know what you're on about.
Besides, skin color is a poor indicator of genetic race when talking about native populations of that latitude. Spanish hunter gatherers had darker skin than modern day North Africans.

>>3084374
Why didn't they just depict themselves as the same color as levantines if they were so "white". Also "black" people come in a wide variety of shades.

>>3084389

Because it was art. Do you believe Libyans were snow white as they were depicted?
I don't think so, they probably looked very similar to Egyptians actually.

>>3084397
Ancient Egyptian art seems to depict skin color fairly accurately.

>>3084404

Tanned Scandinavians have the orange complexion. What does that mean?

>>3084407
You are reaching. Ancient Egypt was an early multicultural society because of where it was at, but it is well documented that its roots were in the south ie. Upper Egypt/Sudan/Ethiopia.

>>3084415

But Ancient Egyptians descended from Near Eastern settlers and indigenous people closely related to Near Easterners.

>>3084418
Those tested were not indigenous ancient Egyptians. If they were from the levant, then why do they depict levantines so drastically different from themselves. There should be at least some level of cultural and aesthetic continuity.

>>3084418
Ancient Egyptian people followed the flow of the Nile, and by their own admission came from the south.

>>3084423

Like I said earlier, skin color is a very poor indicator of genetic race.
If there were dark skinned natives in Spain, why not Egypt?
We don't have really old DNA from Egypt but Natufian DNA is close enough and reveals no affinity towards the Negroid Sub-Saharan Africans. Seems probable that indigenous Egyptians were relatively dark skinned, Natufian related people who mixed with the more advanced Near Eastern people to create the Ancient Egyptians we know.

>>3083152
Isis on the right?
who's on the left?

>>3084439
Are Ethiopians negroid Subsaharan Africans? Subsaharan doesn't exactly equal "black"', and is an all around flawed and racialized concept especially when you consider the Sahara is relatively young. I think the question come down to what one considers "black". If northern Sudanese people are considered black, than the vast majority of working class ancient Egyptians would be considered "black" at least in passing.

>>3084460

Modern day Ethiopians are a can of worms.

But there is DNA from an Ethiopian hunter gatherer from 2000 BC(Mota). If it was proven that this type of DNA was present in Ancient Egypt at meaningful quantities I would concede that there would be SSA influence there, everyone would have to.

I believe there wasn't any though and there was a cline across NE Africa with the two ends being entirely different but converging later.

>>3084374
No, no they didn't.

>>3084439
>thousands of years off
>Like literally thousands of years off
>close enough

>The retarded anthropologist phoneposter is at it again
Kill yourself

>>3085797

>Western Hunter Gatherer

They had dark skin and blue eyes. .

>>3083116
Berbers

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>>3084366
>Ethiopian tribes did migrate all the way to Europe, and become the "Jews" we know today.

WE

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>>3083116
Upper/Southern Egyptians

>>3085931
Yeah, the Nubian invaders surely are a good proxy.

>>3085964
They've always lived there. The northern elements are the invaders. Human migration patterns alone dictate that Egypt was initially settled from south to north..

Why are people trying to appropriate the history of Nilo-saharans?

>>3085984

Indeed, Egypt was settled from the south.

This happened about 130-70k years ago and notable descendants of this settlement include the Japanese, Swedes, Patagonian natives, Australian aboriginals and Ancient Egyptians.

>>3084404
According to who?

>>3083156
>It's very unlikely that most men could have afforded to be constantly clean shaven in those times.

Good thing that literally all the art we got is an idealized product made for the dudes who did have the time.


And there was cultural discontinuity because of the fucking desert you nigger. Egypt was an isolated land, that's why it lasted so much more than mesopotamian and syrian political entities. That's also why they didn't follow the beard fashion.

>>3085833
I was referring to Egyptians depicting themselves as tan.

>>3083116
Egyptian Copts. That's the closest you'll get. Their bible is written in a variation of Ancient Egyptian.

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>>3085984
You're right but I wouldn't go that far. I think that he fair skimmed Copt-like element was probably around from close to the beginning too. Genetic studies have ruled out later mixture as responsible and some figures are portrayed as that tone; especially some women.

Nevertheless, I think the Southern population was clearly dominant; they look like they're literally pulled from the art. How people can look at this art and deny that they clearly look like Upper Egyptians is beyond me.

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>>3085931
checks out

>>3086096
Well I guess the Olmecs and Han were black and Greeks and Romans had grey skin, it all checks out. Art is a 100% accurate afterall

>>3086113

Kinda looks like Osama

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>>3086125
much symbolism can only take you so far. Everything else in the art you're replying to is drawn and painted realistically.

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>>3086146
Realistically in terms of color I mean. Plus we have people in the area with that shade. It's as easy as putting 2 and 2 together anon

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>>3086146
>10 foot tall man
>Realistic
Yeah, sure, whatever you say anon. Art is absolutely how we should decide on a racial classification for a long dead civilization

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>>3086165
See
>>3086151
I knew you were going to mention scale. You're so consumed by your desire to btfo wewuzzery, that you've now lost as much objectivity as the we-wuzzers themselves. Or maybe you can't stomach the idea of a darker skinned ethnic group building one of the most iconic civilizations of modern imagination. Relax buddy, they're still substantially eurasian genetically

>>3086193

Egypt was like Cuba towards the end.

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>>3086193
I don't give a shit how dark they were, using art as some sort of measure is a shit idea and you should feel ashamed, for all you knew they were white as fuck and just idealized the bronzed form like Australian life saving posters of the modern day. It's a shit metric

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>>3086151
>>3086096
Im Egyptian (coptic), dark Egyptians are called Sudanese. I'm olive skinned, there's a clear distinction between us and non-Egyptian citizens of Egypt.

>>3086243
No one cares what you call yourselves now. White Americans call ethnically mexican immigrants so it's not a surprise that people that came in later now call themselves the originals.

>>3086313

Just say WE WUZ KANGZ

>>3086336
WE WUZ AMERICANZ

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>>3086243
>dark Egyptians are called Sudanese
Tell that to the ancients that clearly drew themselves as the same color as the ones you call Sudanese

>Im Egyptian (coptic)
>I'm olive skinned, there's a clear distinction between us and non-Egyptian citizens of Egypt.
I've been to Egypt and I've personally seen and have spoken to darker Egyptian citizens in the Southern parts. Secondly, it doesn't really make a difference who you are because ancient egyptian culture is long gone; the only reason we know so much about it is because of western Egyptologists. There is little to no cultural continuity between you and the ancients. If you're a Copt, you might be a throwback to the Roman era at best.

The art clearly shows that the ancient Egyptian population consisted of the phenotype of your southern almost Sudanese/Nubian-like population followed by a significant amount of your phenotype as well.

>>3086348
>Copper skin is the same as full dark
Fucking top yourself you colour blind cunt

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>>3086352
Keep splitting hairs, it makes no difference

>>3086449
Keep WUZing about a long dead state, maybe one day you will be a kang

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>>3086464
I'm neither African American nor Egyptian. I'm just someone that can look at art objectively

>>3086352
>copper skin
Ok. I guess you're actually retarded for believing that even resembles the color of light skinned copt colors. It's fine if you believe ancient Egyptians were copt but not if you're going off this art.

>>3086527
It's fucking red, if anything they look like Native Americans more than darkies

>>3086521

Nobody's disputing there were some Blacks or Nubians in Ancient Egypt. They still weren't the people who created the civilization and designed the pyramids.

>>3086533
Do you have some sort of color blindness? That is not red.

>>3086534
Not the guy you're responding to but you 0 proof they didn't design the pyramids or a pyramid and to say they didn't help create the civilization sounds dumb. Even if they were slaves of some sort they still would of contributed to the civilization.

>>3086553

Nubian pyramids are small and inferior in type

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>>3086534
Then why did they depict themselves like this? Were they trying to fool us?

>>3086555
Ah yes I forgot the Nubian pyramid building gene. There is no way an ancient Nubian could of built a better pyramid because they don't have the great pyramid gene. No, only a copt could build it because of their great triangular gene.

Not that I understand what you're saying because you assume black Egyptian=Nubian and not just Egyptian.

>>3086575

That's not black.

>>3086578

Do you know where Giza is?

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>>3086575
>why did they depict themselves like this? Were they trying to fool us?
Guess Romans were black all along

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>>3086227
>look like copts
>depict themselves as looking exactly like the people down south who are totally not the real egyptians despite supporting archeological evidence and you're a wewuzzer if you think otherwise
what did they mean by this?

>>3086593
>Do you know where Giza is?
May be you're not understanding but these pyramids were not designed by WHOLE populations of people. They were designed by small groups of people and we only know a few key names. So you can't say that one of them was most definitely not black because we don't know what the people who designed them looked like and for you to say that NOT A SINGULAR Nubian could of helped design those pyramids because native Nubian pyramids were hot garbage is retarded.

>>3083136
Those are Lybians...

Still it's true that Egyptians depicted Levantines as much lighter than them, Syrians were depicted with red hair lol, what the fuck?

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>>3086621
Guess I'm black then

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>>3086593
Define black. If black means west african bantu or negroid, them no they weren't. But if black means dark skinned (the way Ethiopians are considered black despite having substantial mixture), then yes they were "black". They would probably be considered "black" or on the black spectrum by the modern definition of the word which is closer to the latter.

>>3086660

Those are blacks.

>>3083126
heh

>>3086660
>after more than 5000 years of intermixing
No, they weren't black. As recent studies have shown, they were light skinned and had caucasoid features, just as anybody from Europe, to the Levante and Northern Africa (think Berbers) until the rise of Islam.

>>3086701
[citation needed]

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>>3086684
They're all on the spectrum

>>3086710

Those are very dark people. Not the darkest but dark enough.

I think if you understood anything about how the genetics of skin color work you would have a less retarded attitude towards this all.

>>3086707
It was published literally a week ago.

>>3086748
Well link me then. If this just a singular study that hasn't peer reviewed then I really don't care.

>>3084428
Where does it say that Egyptians themselves state they came from the south

>>3085805
lol I think he's honestly a black mutt with like 40% Irish genes

>>3083116
>one day the new mezito races in Europe and America will fight over who was more white
Lel

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>>3086701
>As recent studies have shown, they were light skinned and had caucasoid features, just as anybody from Europe, to the Levante and Northern Africa (think Berbers) until the rise of Islam.
really makes me think

>>3083116
African americans

>>3083116
Basque people and Scots

>>3083116
Basketball americans

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>using ancient art as literal reference for determination of race

>>3086193
had never seen Egyptian art depicting faces from a frontal angle.

>>3087411
> jeering at using only visual medium we have to directly understand how ancients viewed their world
> depends on a collection of weeb shit to express his emotions

>>3083119
fpbp

>>3084415
>upper Egypt
Here we go...

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>>3083116
why do people keep making threads asking this question?

make a thread about egyptian history for once

>>3087859
Because it triggers some people to know most ancient Egyptians would be categorically "black", until they can get over this an honest discussion about ancient can not be had.

>>3087859
It's literally one guy who says the same shit every thread, he's autistic

>>3087282
This

Who cares what shade are the Egyptians
They had multiple dynasties and shit and i remember at one time they were under the kushites

>>3087983
Kushites are an arbitrary divide crated by modern academia in an attempt to whiten the perception of the ancient Egyptian people. They were essentially the same people, and the time when they ruled simply represented a time of self-rule.

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>art is decisive in identity "
>ignoring DNA is the way"
>"4000 bc smelting proves they were blue eyed Germans
>what an amazing discovery!!!!xD

>>3088420
We've been over this a million times. Those DNA samples weren't from native Egyptians, and were only taken from one site.

>>3088448
>"muhhh international white conspiracy"
>"whites be so evil yooo
>""""they deserve it"""
Go back to twitter Eric

>>3088448
They weren't though.

>>3088448
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLXOkZtAkPw

>>3084423
Uh yes they were

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>>3083116
North Africans, presumably.

Perhaps more Levantine/Mediterranean admixture as time progressed.

>>3088461
I never said anything about a white conspiracy, just that the "study" you are citing is nowhere near being scientific, it makes far too many assumptions and essentially ignores the myriad of inconsistencies that expose potential problems with the study. It's almost as if they were/are looking for a certain result.

>>3086193
Science not art prove who they were and they were not black

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>>3088482
>Anthropologist deciding what's scientific

>>3088464
They were all fro the same site. No samples were taken from upper Egypt(Egyptian point of origin).

It would be like future archeologists excavating a grave site in a former Chinatown and concluding all Americans were asian.

>>3088488
That wasn't science though. It was an attempt at confirmation bias masquerading as science, and since that is what some people would like to believe they failed to look at the facts critically or objectively.

>>3088488
One drop rule. They were/are "black".

Both ancient and modern Egyptians clearly differentiate themselves from "whites" and "blacks".
We should probably do that too.

>>3088482
>>3088499
t.Literal Afrocentrist on a Kazakhstani throat flinging blogspot

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>>3088524
Notice how half of the "Nubians in this art are the same color as the Egyptian.>>3084360

Also what constitutes "black" is extremely diverse so most upper Egyptians(real Egyptians) fall on the spectrum.

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>>3088482
>I never said anything about a white conspiracy
>It's almost as if they were/are looking for a certain result
Nice work

>>3088529
t. le defeated

>>3088540
>t.Jacobe Yotimbo Orlando Rickkson
They tested 152 different Egyptians from different areas,and if your talking about art there are some Egyptians who were portrayed as copper skin and with blue eyes so the art is conflicting you sound just like nordisists.Just accept it they weren't black nor white and move on try to get a job while your at it.

>>3088577
>b-but o-one drrop rule"

>>3088535
Notice how all of the Egyptians in that image are the same not black not white color?

So if you just open up the word black to describe anyone with dark skin, then you aren't really saying anything anyway, are you? And who are you to say who is a real Egyptian and who is not?

As for your article:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2010-12-31-1686152582_x.htm
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/07/133562448/the-root-egypts-race-problem

>>3088584
The one drop rule is major. It created a population of over 42 million blacks in America, when only 350,000 Africans were imported.

>>3088589
>thinks black people are literally black.

>>3083116
African-American people of colour

>>3088600
>thinks anyone non-European is black

>>3088615
No, but what constitutes "black" has a much wider spectrum than what constitutes white. If Mariah Carey, prince, and Steph curry are "black", then so are most Egyptians.

>>3083116
Currently, Bedouins and Palestinians.

>>3088595
Back then they thought that the British were the true Israelites wtf is your point?
Whatever I know now you're not pretending to be a retarded nigger

>>3088630
Neither of them are black, desu.

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>>3088645
They are all considered "black" just like rosa parks, and Barack Obama, and Louis Farrakhan.

>>3088649
Perhaps, but incorrectly.
But that is changing, especially since multiracial was put on the census.

>>3088637
They are bearded and apparently lighter than ancient Egyptians were.

>>3086649
>not "and Coolangatta in Summer"

you had one job, tourism board

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>>3088488
The science was of a single site; a caveat that even the authors noted.

>>3083119
As a black guy, I can say:

fpbp

>>3087729
>Using a subjective visual medium to judge objective race
>Unironically believing the artists wouldn't stylize themselves

Autism at its finest

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People ITT need to understand that skin color is not a Niggu vs Aryan vs Arab thing. It's about adaptation and selective sweeps if we're talking about ancient populations.

West Eurasian non-Blackness originates at least primarily in a selective sweep of one single fucking allele. There are other ones but they aren't as widely spread or not meaningful for West Eurasians.

This selective sweep of SLC24A5 happened _after_ West Eurasia was populated and did not extend to every corner of West Eurasia before the Neolithic era.

Spanish hunter gatherers did not have this allele which makes Arabs like Saddam Hussein so pale. That should give you a pretty good idea how dark they were. So they had the same pigmentation as Black Africans, dark Tamils and Melanesians as far as scientists can tell, yet they were not genetically related to any of those populations but the now very pale Balts, Scandinavians, Finns etc.


It would make no difference if the SLC24AE sweep did not extend into Egypt before the Neolithic. There could have been pitch black people there and they still could have been 100% related to Near Easterners. That's how it fucking works.
The genetic origins of Ancient Egyptians must be resolved through DNA studies not some drawings of brown people.

blacksatdickwashing.jpg

>>3086753

https://www.nature.com/news/mummy-dna-unravels-ancient-egyptians-ancestry-1.22069

/thead

>>3083119
literally this


Egyptians look like Egyptians.

>>3089207
No one cares that you're black and it doesn't make your opinion the subject any more true or false.

>>3089399
I don't see anything about light skin or "caucasoid features", whatever those would mean in a North African or Nilo-Saharan context (literally everyone there has major "caucasoid" admixture)