Violence Against Socialism In The USA

>>3081492
>preventing something like the Holodomor or the Great Leap Forward requires justification

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>>3081498
>Bringing up events where the estimated numbers have been proven wrong and even if the estimated numbers were true capitalism has killed more throughout history anyways
>Implying similar things would happen in developed 1st world countries

>>3081492
All those socialists were faggots who went against the ideas that this nation is built upon. They can all burn in hell like the tyranny lovers they were.

God Bless America

>>3081492
They all need helicopter rides

>>3081510

>not real communism
>not real numbers

Collectivism doesn't work. Get over it

>>3081533
>not real capitalism, it's corporatism
>the free market would regulate itself

Economic freedom is inherently destructive to democratic society and destroying the environment for profit doesn't mean something is successful.

>>3081510
>"it's not genocide denial when WE do it!"
>implying any country would stay first world under communism

hischokingpol&leftypol.png

>>3081557
>Implying the Kulaks didn't deserve it
ya you get the bullet too

>>3081557
>It's genocide when people don't cooperate for the greater good
>implying first and third world countries would stay capitalist without first would interventionist imperialism

>>3081522
America is the Whore of Babylon described in Revelation.
Your country's godless materialism will get you a one way ticket to Hell.

>>3081593
>>3081595
I was right when I said /his/ is bizarre Christian-Marxist mixture.
Deus Vult, you Nazi porkies!

>>3081606
I think I remember you saying that if you are the same anon.

Personally I am not religious and strongly dislike American Christianity but if it was egalitarian I wouldn't have a problem with it being what it is.

>>3081551
>Economic freedom is inherently destructive to democratic society

You've got that backwards. Political freedom tends to erode economic and civil freedom. First example Venezuela

>>3081498
By this logic, violence against capitalists is justified to prevent the Potato Famine and rampant malnutrition

>>3081681
>vast majority of capitalistic states don't commit genocide, but a few do
>literally every communist state has committed a genocide
totally comparable, top-tier analysis

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>>3081492
Right wingers on 4chan parrot the anticommunist slogans that the state department and media use to support the status quo while sincerely believing that this makes them anti-establishment.

>>3081681
By this logic, violence against nature is justified to prevent death and pain

>>3081551

Economic freedom is absolutely essential to democratic societies. There's a reason why the earliest republics had strong cultures of commerce and trade.

>destroying the environment for profit doesn't mean something is successful

Neither is controlling every little aspect of society and killing the people who disagree.

>>3081692
Are you fucking retarded?

The only communist government to which genocide has been alleged is the USSR, and very few mainstream scholars believe the Holodomor was a genocide. This logic mostly comes from the mouths of Ukrainian nationalist politicians, and Westerners without any understanding of the famine lap it up.

>>3081492
The suppression of labor movements in the USA drove those movements into the camp of the Soviets in the 20's and 30's. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

>>3081696
By this logic, violence against trees is justified to avoid splinters and falling branches.

The real story here is the story of Irish, Italian, and other Ellis Island immigrants causing insurrection against what was the United States' WASP majority establishment.

>>3081695

>remove government
>That's propaganda created by the state department!

So you're one of those people who went to college and got stupider.

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>>3081702

>it's not genocide if we kill everyone equally

>>3081702

In Marxist land, apparently the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge didn't happen nor did the North Vietnamese scourging of the Montagnards after the Vietnam War.

>>3081702
>China didn't commit genocide
>Khmer rouge didn't commit genocide

Fuck off tanky. People like you are the reason /pol/ exists

where the fuck are the mods?

>>3081722
I'm not even the person you're responding to, but I felt compelled to offer a counterpoint. You (the government) propagate the idea that the enemy seeks the destruction not only of the status quo, but also what a person might reasonably enjoy about your society to create a conflation of change with the negative. This is common for most conservative movements in general. Mind you that's not a necessarily negative or inherently wrong viewpoint to have, but those concepts are often interconnected with conservatism.

>>3081719
This no doubt had some influence on the course of action pursued by the government and the ruling class of the country and segues nicely into what I was going to say below here. It's also something that might be useful to add to the thread.

It's also on record (from FBI records and other documents from Hoover's tenure at that institution) that they drummed up the Communist threat far beyond its capabilities and capacity and stoked the Red Scare by feeding McCarthy information they'd obtained (with questionable legality), even though by the 1950's they'd all but destroyed the movement in America. This was even before TOPLEV allowed them to place a spy in upper echelon Soviet/Communist circles.

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>>3081692
Nope.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

Out of the dozen and a half communist governments which have existed, only two have been fingered as perpetrators of genocide -- the Soviet Union, whose potential complicity in a genocide of the Ukrainians is now largely rejected by historians, and Cambodia, a highly regressive US proxy used to counteract Soviet influence in Southeast Asia.

The vast majority of genocides have been perpetuated by capitalist governments. Turkey against the Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians. Imperial Russia against the Circassians and Jews. Germany in 1902 and throughout the Nazi period. Indonesia in 1965 against the Chinese and then twice more against the Acehnese and Timorese. The Japanese against all their foreign subjects throughout the Imperial period.

Perhaps even more horrific is the ambient destruction wrought by capitalistic inequality, particularly in the third world. The domination of so many economies by a few hundred first-world companies withholds capital from much of the global south, preventing any serious efforts to relieve poverty in these nations or develop their economies beyond the extent that benefits foreign resource-plunderers.

>>3081771

>create a conflation of change with the negative

I think you could summarize conservatism in a sentence as "We should probably do what's always worked in the past.", so your point is valid.

The issue I have is putting forward that this idea is coming from the government. Governments like centralization as it gives them more power over the people they govern. I can't speak for other countries, but in America "what's always worked" is decentralization. That's why we have states instead of provinces, and why we have two Senators for every state. We try to keep power to the lowest level of government where it is effective, and limit government wherever possible.

I do not believe the government would release propaganda to convince people to prevent the government from seizing power. You might be able to argue that Cold War anti-Communist propaganda allowed the government to grow by fighting wars in other countries, but that doesn't seem relevant today.

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>>3081779

>mfw he thinks that capitalism is a political system not an economic one

Commies grasping at straws in their criticism of capitalism and projecting their own political/economic/religious ideology with its antithesis

The only thing that capitalism could be guilty of is the huge wage gap it creates.

>The domination of so many economies by a few hundred first-world companies withholds capital from much of the global south, preventing any serious efforts to relieve poverty in these nations or develop their economies beyond the extent that benefits foreign resource-plunderers.

Which is called corporatism, in which government and big business get into bed together. It also happens under socialism and communism.

>>3081595

but communism and socialism are the most materialistic dogmas ever conceived

it's all about the haves vs the have-nots. It's all about the material wealth and who has it and who should have it.

communists aren't people. Okay, it's justified

>>3081779

>Imperial nations are capitalist.
>Fascist nations are capitalist.

Do commies not believe in dictionaries? Are dictionaries tools of the bourgeoisie?

>the ambient destruction wrought by capitalistic inequality

Is this something that you can prove? Or is it like the Patriarchy, which is totally real and totally oppressive but no I can't describe it without using a thesaurus to find 20 synonyms for "amorphous". Also thesauruses are tools are the bourgeoisie.

>The domination of so many economies by a few hundred first-world companies withholds capital from much of the global south, preventing any serious efforts to relieve poverty in these nations or develop their economies beyond the extent that benefits foreign resource-plunderers.

Would you like to provide a source for anything that's in that sentence?

>>3081865
Marx even called his ideal "dialectal materialism".

>>3081826
>deeeehhhhh duh free market is immune to monopoly
Pro capitalist here, you're silly.

>>3081582
>but why does no one like us :((((
Here's your answer, OP

>>3081779
Imperial Russia was 'capitalist'? Lmao

>>3081822
>I think you could summarize conservatism in a sentence as "We should probably do what's always worked in the past."

I think you could better summarize conservatism as "Let's do what the progressives were telling us to do yesterday, rather than what they're telling us to do today."

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>>3081742
When did communist China commit a genocide?

Communist masses certainly killed a lot of people in their overzealous attempt to purge their country of social parasites, but genocide is the deliberate attempt to destroy an ethnic group. Though regrettable and unacceptable actions were taken to Sinicize the peoples of Tibet, Yunnan, and Xinjiang, masses of civilians were never rounded up and killed like the Japanese had done in this same country just a decade earlier.

In fact, many ethnic minorities found success in revolutionary China that would have been impossible during the imperial period. Pic related was one of the foremost military leaders of the PROC despite his Hakka heritage, which would have precluded him from public life in previous decades.

>>3081492
But Jesus was a socialist

Communism is the most bourgeois ideology possible, literally the only people that believe in it are brainwashed college retards and spoiled upper middle class teenagers.

>>3081826
>I'm a literal retard so I don't realize that economy shapes politics and that material demands drive foreign intervention

>>3081902
This.
The fucking Brownshirts were more in touch with the working class than commietards, the street brawls in Weimar Germany were basically unemployed young men fighting against upper middle class men who thought they knew what was best for everyone else.

>>3081492
Violence against communism is always self defense. There is nothing more American than kicking a socialists teeth in.

>>3081895
While aspects of feudal production remained, how was it not capitalist? Private rentiers oversaw wage laborers and the government bent over backwards to appease foreign industrialists, the nationalization of whose property spurred the multiple invasions of Russia by capitalist powers in the immediate aftermath of WW1.

>>3081492
Fuck commies. That's the only justification needed.

>>3081826
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/04/why-natural-resources-are-a-curse-on-developing-countries-and-how-to-fix-it/256508/

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/project_syndicate/2012/08/why_resource_rich_countries_usually_end_up_poor_.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/project_syndicate/2012/08/why_resource_rich_countries_usually_end_up_poor_.html

Few third world countries truly command their own economic destiny. Those whose resource markets are not controlled by foreigners must gear their own production toward quenching a first-world thirst.

>>3081492

51% of American's now believe capitalism doesn't work (18-29). 30yr old and up will suffer until the young eventually change the system. And make no mistake, it's coming.

>>3081955
Yep, fascism is just around the corner.

>>3081982
Fascism is capitalist to the core.

>>3081898

But that would imply that progressives managed to implement policies that worked.

>>3082089
No it's not.

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>>3081822
>but that doesn't seem relevant today.
>saying this post 9/11

>>3081949
To avoid the resource trap they need to diversify their economy and to do that they need free trade and free markets so multinational corporations, tourists and foreign journalists flood in and counterbalance whatever shitty tinpot dictatorship or borderline organized criminals grabbed ahold of the resources.

You can cry about foreigners starting a business in your country all you want, to me it stinks of the very xenophobia leftists always whine about. However it pays off when Pablo works his way up to store manager and has enough money and experience to open up his own franchise.

>>3081492
You can't justify it, The rich are constantly waging class war against their peasantry and demanding they do nothing about it but submit meekly and give a monthly tithe to the CEO. This violence only highlights the tension between the classes inherent in the capitalist system. Look up the battle of Blair Mountain, the Banana Massacre, and The Ludlow Massacre.

>>3082169

Are you under the impression that Middle Eastern dictatorships are communist?

>>3081680
So North Korea is heaven on earth to you? If uou want no freedom and a strong state.....

>>3082189
NK is the way it is because the communists weren't put in the ground in time, too bad all those Koreans have to suffer for it.

>>3082144
Fascism protects property, outlaws worker movements, and demands that the needs of the working class be subordinated to the needs of the state.

It is capitalism with fangs, the last gasp of a faltering economic system that attempts to stave off its own demise through extreme force and obedience.

>>3081779
>Turkey
It wasn't capitalist back then. It was feudal.

>>3082260
>faltering economic system
Lmao, yeah kid, capitalism will fail any day now, as it was supposed to do every day since the early 1900s.
Face it, your revolution will never come and you'll be flipping burgers till you die.

>>3082260
That wasn't true fascism, true fascism has never been tried :^)

>>3082274
Are you really trying to suggest that capitalism in Weimar Germany was working?

>>3081695
Fuck off, leftypol. No one cares about your failed ideology.

>>3082283

Are you suggesting it takes losing a world war to collapse a capitalist system?

>>3082274
>Boom-or-bust economy requiring incessant growth at any cost
>Yessir this system is completely sustainable :^)

>>3082283
Modern capitalist Germany is the richest country in Europe, the former socialist East meanwhile is only just now starting to catch up economically entirely thanks to capitalism.

>>3082293
>commietards have a kindergarteners understanding of how capitalism works
Can't say it's surprising.

>>3081492

Is this a joke? Socialism was a failure.

>>3082143
By sheer force of power, they've implemented policies.

Those policies haven't worked.

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Capitalism doesn't have to kill millions of people to create prosperity.
Millions of people end up dying when central planning fucks with the money supply and imposes high taxes and regulations though.
Socialism is just central planning with utopian rhetoric.

>>3081492
The opression of communists protects freedom. As long as communists are allowed to vote, democracy is reduced to fexes and chickens voting on whats for dinner. Which it basically is now with the welfare state, but luckily the foxes are niggers who are too lazy to go vote lmao

reds are bourgeois and kulaks, ok now it's justified.

>>3082361
Wtf I hate communism now

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>>3081510
>>3081498

>>3081492
>Justify the violence and brutality against labor movements in the United States throughout it's history.

Because we can't let it happen here.

>>3081492
Can't get it too, both capitalism and socialism heading towards global government over unified standardized population in favor of top 1%. Probably "divide and conquer" tactics, it's still works fine.

>>3081865
you're not wrong but if you assign a derogatory form of the world "materialism" that liberally you can make many things seem absurd

"materialism" isn't necessarily bad, marx called it materialism
the form of the word materialism you're using is different from it's inherent meaning, born to describe an unhealthy obsession with superficial worldly pleasures... not basic needs.
so attempting to invalidate a concept by using that word as if it's inherently negative is silly

>>3081492
anybody replying against is a retarded /pol/ shill that doesn't realize how many died to get an 8 hr workday

>>3081899
>the killed a lot of people because they belong to a certain political group
>but it wasn't genocide
guys, leftists don't redefine words randomly in order to win arguments

>>3082422
No, that's what you're doing. Genocide, by definition, is ethnic removal.

>>3081582
Literally change Kulaks to Jews and you're a stormweenie
Modern commies are probably the lowest form of scum the earth has ever created, at least Commies in the past didn't have ample information that their plans were doomed and were merely misguided

>>3081582
>da jews deserved it XDD

>>3082418
obvious shill

>>3081492
>Justify the violence and brutality against labor movements in the United States throughout it's history.
You SJWs want to destroy the white race

>>3081492
It's clearly been insufficient.

>>3082529
Watch the video you fucking Stormcuck retard. In the old black and white footage from the early 1900s you can clearly see the majority were white. Equality doesn't destroy the white race just white supremacy. It didn't become a majorly race issue until the civil rights movement. Most communists nowadays despise idpol because SJWs that claim they're socialists say identity politics are more important than class politics.

>>3082576
stupid vaginal whore

>>3082589
Wow, you really fuckin' got me there. How will I ever recover?

>>3081885

Commie, please. Never once did I advocate a free market.

>>3081910

Really? I didn't realize that economic needs form one of the factors that shape geopolitics.

>>3082576
>wants to destroy "white supremacy" so million of nonwhites can flood into white countries
>calls others cucks

Why are you anti white shills so pathetic?

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I am fucking astounded at how posters on /his/ repeatedly condemn one group of people for murder and political violence, but then turn around and praise others for murder and political violence because they agree with their economic model.

>>3082638
this place is being overrun with leftypol SJWs, we'll probably be having pro negro-centrism threads soon

>>3082576
>Most communists nowadays despise idpol because SJWs
you subhumans are the SJWs

>>3082644
This place is overrun by both /pol/ and /leftypol/, and they literally both pull this kind of shit.

The worst part is I can't even call them on it because either side will be convinced that I'm a nazi or an SJW, then both sides will go back to flinging shit at one another and smear the whole board with their shit.

>>3082274
Capitalism failed multiple times already

>>3082629
>/pol/faggot thinks racial equality among the citizenry automatically means open borders

Wew, there wouldn't even be refugees if the US wasn't the world police and destabilizes middle eastern countries. Plus refugees and illegal immigrants are just cheaper labor for the capitalists.

>>3082720
>Plus refugees and illegal immigrants are just cheaper labor for the capitalists.
then why do you want them coming in, you fucking cuck?

>>3082720
Nah m8 you got it all wrong, it's actually one big jewish bolshevik conspiracy to destroy white race with BBCs and that guy Soros is a Jew and he's like behind everything.

>>3082743
To destroy the white race, goy. Prepare to get cucked! Muahahahahahh!

>>3081492
>dead commies
Patriotic duty.

>>3082717
>when capitalism fails a few million people lose their jobs for a few years
>when socialism fails tens of millions starve to death
Hmmm... tough choice.

>>3081900
Lol, yeah jesus really pushed the point of a greater state didnt he after judea had been conquered by the romans . I can also remember him saying "dont let ceasar have what is his by right fuck dat nigger"

>>3082754
>>3082720
why is this SJW samefagging?

>>3082773
I want to piss you off.

>>3082782
no, you just want a safespace

>>3082782
>he admits it
/leftypol/ truly is pathetic.

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>>3081498
>comparing Bernie Sanders, Eugene Debs, and Joe Hill to Stalin and Mao

>>3082783
No, you want a safespace.

Sorry, not having it. You can cry all you like, but in the end there will always be evil leftie marxists to disagree with you.
>>3082786
Piss off stormweenie.

>>3082795
>Piss off stormweenie.
why do you anti white cucks want a safespace?

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>>3081492
Americans have pretty much been brainwashed to actively fight against their own best interests.

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>>3082798
To trigger your fat ugly ass

>>3081826
>>3081879
>>3081895
>not REAL capitalism!!!

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>>3082800
>Americans have pretty much been brainwashed to actively fight against their own best interests.
yes, white people voting for democrats

>>3082294
Germany has aspects of socialism today because pure free market capitalism is unsustainable.

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>>3082803
>the subhuman lefist calling anyone else fat or ugly
fucking LOL

>>3082768
When capitalism in the US had its "low points" in the 19th century there were people that starved or died of exposure.

>>3082800
>brainwashed to actively fight against their own interests
I know.
How there are still straights, whites, and males voting for the Democrats is beyond me, even Hispanics are starting to wake up.

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>>3082818

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>>3082831

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>>3082837

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>>3082839

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>>3082843

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>>3082848

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>>3082854

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lol someone is triggered

You /pol/acks are like children, so easily buttblasted

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>>3082818
>>3082831
>>3082837
>>3082839
>>3082843
>>3082848
>>3082854
>>3082859

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>>3082861
>this damage control
Which one are you?

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>>3082867

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>>3082867

>>3082863
>>3082871

Who do you think you're insulting?

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>>3082870

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>>3082861
>>3082863
why are anti white cucks so triggered

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>>3082876
Some people think the only way you can oppose communism is by being a fascist.

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>>3082717
>Capitalism fails
>people suffer, but retain the same system with some reforms
>socialism fails
>state completely fractures and adopts capitalism

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>>3082886

>>3082638
You're a liar. That's what you are.

>>3082888
>>3082886
What the fuck? That's next level.

>>3082882
Holy fuck, I didn't exect a commie cringe thread.

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Socialism is a death cult.

>>3081492
Socialists are historically a violent mob of thugs who will only complain for so long before they try to initiate a revolution. Since their ideology is incompatible with civilization as indicated by the numerous examples of socialism failing spectacularly within the span of mere decades it is in my opinion justifiable to physically remove them from the premises of one's nation, without violence if possible, with violence if necessary.

In the same way that it is justifiable to expel a thieving relative from one's house it is acceptable to expel a thieving socialist from one's country.

>>3082927
Soshalists want freedumb but all teamwork is faschit, Nazi, and communiss. Teamwork is bad.
-Frederick Hack

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>>3082876
>>3082882
These pasty hill billy meth heads are the master race?

>>3081492
Simple; C*mmunists aren't even human, therefore it's justifiable.

>captcha: select the squares that are the helicopter

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>most Communists/socialists are bourgeoisie
>will kill two birds with one stone

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>>3082952
>communists are superhuman
ftfy

>>3082945

No. Why do you ask?

>>3082183
Bumping your own thread? SAD!

>>3081492
Americans believe that if the government takes their assault rifles or gives them healthcare a Communist dictatorship would ensue (note: they ignore the fact that in theory a Communist society is a stateless one) so what kind of behavior would you expect from lunatics and illiterates like those.

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>>3082485
>>3082488
>Hoarding food that other people need to eat is the same as being the wrong religion

>>3082529
No we don't

>>3082638
You're assuming that just because we support the use of force to do good things, we can't support the use of force to do bad things.

This is what academics call a stupid fucking opinion.

>>3082464
Actually no, it's the removal of any (group) not necessarily an ethnic one, so removal of the intelligentsia, aristocracy or supporters of another political leaning is genocide.

>>3082819

So basically the same as communism in its peak?

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>>3082768
Millions starve to death under capitalism every single year.

>>3082818
Pisspiggranddad/Brace Belden flew to Syria to protect people from Islamism. He risked his own life and abandoned all his Western comforts to stop ISIS.

He's more of a man than the entirety of /pol/ combined.

>>3081595
You're not wrong, but communists are far more materialist than even your average American, and should be hunted down with extreme prejudice.

>>3083053
Material conditions create everything.

>>3083041
>capitalism is the reason some people are poor

kys

>>3083053
According to rightist libels the only thing hunted with extreme prejudice were rightists.

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>>3082986

>Americans believe that if the government takes their assault rifles
>government takes their assault rifles
>assault rifles

I've heard an AR-15 is so powerful firing it once can give you PTSD. They also have barrel shrouds that make the gun absolutely silent, and telescoping stocks that allow you to hit targets a mile away with pinpoint accuracy. These murder machines need to be taken off the market.

>>3083041
Cuck tattoo on finger.
>Belden, who is Jewish himself; he used to have a Star of David tattooed on the knuckle of his middle finger, but had a spade tattooed over it before coming to the Middle East.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/american-anarchists-ypg-kurdish-militia-syria-isis-islamic-state-w466069

>>3083094
assault rifles are an accepted terms you moron
you're confusing that with assault weapons which is a libtard term

>>3083143

Where would I buy an assault rifle in America?

>>3082296
>capitalists have a kindergartners understanding of how communism works
Wow its almost as if most ideologues are fucking retarded.

>>3083146
gun stores maybe
but only if they have select fire than they fit the correct term

>>3083076
Because its true?

>>3083143
>assault rifles are an accepted terms you moron
If you're a piece of shit who doesn't know anything about guns

>>3083157

I'm not going to say you can't buy one, but good fucking luck. Practically speaking, Americans have already had their assault rifles taken away.

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Hmmmmmm...........
Really makes me think.....

>>3081692
Even Cuba?

>>3083184
>>3083249

Stupidity on a whole other level.

>>3083143
>assault rifles are an accepted terms you moron
No it isn't.

>>3083041

>Millions starve to death under capitalism every single year.

Commies and their strawman arguments. That has nothing to do with capitalism, that's the human condition.

>>3083272

What do you expect? If they were smart they wouldn't be communists.

all this
>/his/ is /lefty pol/
>communism is a labor movement
>I'm the victim!
and you wonder why people hate you

>>3083210
>>3083214
Hitler himself allegedly coined the term assault rifle from Stg 43
and theres big enough difference from battle rifles and smg to put assault rifles into a category

>>3083288
live in a material realm
>lol materialists
starvation due to policies
>It's the human condition, you know nature.

>>3083249
>adding wars and atrocities that have nothing to do with capitalism
Commies are the worst

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>>3083307
>starvation due to policies

really made me think

>>3083300

Are you a bit slow? You can't buy them. They exist, but if you would like to purchase one you need to file a mountain of paper work and have a government anal probe and if you wait long enough maybe your great grandson can purchase the weapon.

So again, Americans are not worried about our assault rifles being taken because we don't have any assault rifles.

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Hmmmmmmmmmmm......

>>3081914
>The fucking Brownshirts were more in touch with the working class than commietards, the street brawls in Weimar Germany were basically unemployed young men fighting against upper middle class men who thought they knew what was best for everyone else.
Not that I believe this to not be true, but do you have a source on that?

>>3083041
>Be Pisspigbaghdad
>Fight for a country that's a literal American proxy used for oil

>>3083288
So how about we try and fucking stop this?

>>3083410
He's bullshitting. Though designed to be a working class organization, the SA found most of their potential recruits joining left wing organizations and pivoted in the late 20s to appeal to the sons of rural landowners and urban shopkeepers, middle-income groups which had lose some of their status due to the Great Depression.

>>3082932
t. pseudointellectual who worships Molymeme and Hoppe

>>3083035
Not quite. The USSR had its last famine in the mid 1940s. China had its last famine in the 1960s. Those were by far the biggest famines in communist countries.

>>3082818
>>3082831
>>3082837
>>3082839
>>3082843
>>3082848
>>3082854
>>3082859
>>3082867
>>3082870
>>3082879
>>3082882
>>3082896
lolol le epik meme xD xD xD!!!

>>3081702
See people like you are why communists are persecuted, because you think what they did in China and Cambodia and Russia was acceptable in any conceivable way and you want to bring that level of disaster to the US. Fuck you, you pinko scum.

>>3082819
>When capitalism in the US had its "low points" in the 19th century there were people that starved or died of exposure.
How many? A million? A hundred thousand? Ten thousand? I'm betting it's less even than that. Because the suffering that occurs in capitalism isn't systemic, it's sporadic and depends largely on individual circumstances. Communism spreads misery around and makes sure if there's a fuck up 90% of the people feel the pain.

>>3083425
By making everyone else starve under centralized planning, great idea.

>>3083157
>gun stores maybe
>but only if they have select fire than they fit the correct term
I can tell you for certain that the average Cabelas or Bass Pro isn't going to have select fire weapons for sale.

>>3083552
It's hard to estimate because it was class-specific (e.g. not a countrywide or regional famine) and demographics of things like unemployment were fuzzier in the 1800s. However, large amounts of workers were laid off or had their pay drastically cut, and in places like company towns costs of living stayed the same while people eventually went into debt to their bosses. People sometimes were evicted from their homes or had to settle for one of the many tenement slums in big cities. This was before any sort of welfare or social security, so it's logical to assume that there were working class people who starved.

>>3083563
strawman

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>>3083607
Yeah because North Korea and Venezuela are strawmen

>>3083664
Show where in communist doctrine clandestine smuggling of goods out of the country to make a profit or sanctions against communist states appear.

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>>3083728
>it's not a utopia like Marx said so it's not real communism

>>3082793
The path to the Holodomor didn't began with Stalin. It began with Kerensky.

The path to the Cultural Revolution didn't began with Mao. It began with Sun Yat-sen

You can't cede an inch.

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>>3083385
In a Communist regime Porky would be a Party bureaucrat doing the exact same things.

>>3082189

Economics freedom is a necessary condition for civil and political freedom, but not a sufficient one

>>3081582
>SELF EMPLOYED PEOPLE DON'T GET TO OWN THEIR MEANS OF PRODUCTION

WTF TYPE OF KEK SHIT DO YOU ESPOUSE?

>>3082089
>What was Nazi Germany
>What was Mussolini's Italy
>Franco's Spain
>Salazar's Portugal

Mussolini was a diehard socialist, formerly writing for one of their prominent papers.

>>3081492
you nu-male cucks deserve to be attacked

>>3082888
As we see from this thread people make up any excuse as to why the failures of capitalism are not due to capitalism

>>3082888
>Socialists take over country
>A success of capitalism

>>3083545
Butthurt.

>>3083249
>extermination of the native Americans 1492-1890: 100 million
>capitalism only existed since the 1850s
>vast majority of natives died from old world diseases
Don't you love it when they put the most retarded shit first, so you can safely disregard the rest of it without wasting your time reading it?

>>3083535

The USSR suffered from famine throughout its entire existence because the state was shit at managing its agricultural output despite having some of the best farmlands in Europe. The Soviets were never able to solve the food shortages and relied entirely on Western food aids to prevent their society from collapsing.

>>3082818
>ocalan

Yep into the gas chambers he goes.

>>3084483
*revisionism intensifies*
Even Wikipedia admits that there was no actual famine after 1947. There were periodic shortages of certain goods but it definitely wasn't a famine, no matter how much Bezmenov worshippers and Hoppe fanboys claim otherwise.

>>3083746
I guess the path to the Russian Revolution began with Nicholas II, the path to the Confederacy began with Jefferson, and the path to the formation of the U.K. and USA began with Caesar's invasions of Britain.

>>3083664
No. Because criticizing capitalism doesn't make you turn into Stalin.

>200 replies
>barely no mention of Eugene Debs, the Haymarket affair, the IWW or even Harlen County
>Muh Stalin and Cuba
It is like right wingers are being willfully ignorant nstead of actually want to discuss the history of the American labour movement. Really makes me think

>>3083023
Not him but doesn't "geno" refer to a people in the word genocide, not a group of individuals with similar beliefs but a people tied together by heritage and genes.

>>3084620
/pol/ never comes here to discuss anything, they just want to confirm their own groupthink with other people outside of their echo chamber.

>>3081492

Hi leftypol, still trying to turn his into your colony I see.

>>3083385
>tfw the artist who made the original porky poster was censored by the soviet authorities for his whole career and eventually commited suicide though evidence shows that he might have actually been murdered by the state
the irony is too much

>>3084700
I am not even mad about that. What I am mad is that the level of discourse they bring. The same memes and talking points even when the subject matter is barely related. The fact that /pol/fags don't even have any awareness of the main figures and events of the American labour movement(considering most are American), shows time and time again the Right's most potent weapon against the Left is its ignorance of it

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>>3082986
>actually supporting the government in taking away peoples weapons
hope you get killed in a home invasion you absolute negroid

>>3084723
But that's what /pol/ really is. A few stale memes and buzzwords, jew, cuck, shill, etc. No substance, no deeper insight, aversion to anything that even slightly differs from the standardized groupthink. Complete and utter absence of critical thinking. That's why i escaped it end went to /his/ instead but it seems that they just followed me here.

I dare you, go make up some fake news article about anything that panders /pol/ groupthink. Make it be as sensationalist as possible and post it on /pol/. See if anyone questions its fakeness.

>>3082990
>believing Soviet propoganda
Yeah, well the Jews stabbed Germany in the back during WWI and looted it with Versailles according to the Nazis.
If we believe that, I guess the Holocaust was justified after all.

>>3084745
>le /pol/ boogieman
The only place you 'escaped' from is Reddit.

>>3084745
Tbh I just wanted to discuss the American labour movement and interested to see how right wingers critique it. Disappointed but not susprised to see an opportunity wasted like this

>>3084620
Stopping the disastrous ideology of communism from infecting the US was a bipartisan patriotic effort.

>>3084598
Bullshit, the USSR was heavily reliant on American and Australian (read: capitalist) grain imports for the entirety of its existence.
Food was a constant issue, and Soviet farms were horribly inefficient compared to US ones thanks to chronic fertilizer and farm equipment shortages. This reduced the USSR ffom what should have been an industrial and agricultural superpower to an oil-for-bread banana economy.

>>3084754
I posted on pre-exodus /pol/ before moot nuked the board. You on the other hand, came from reddit in 2016.
>>3084763
Don't know what you expected really.

>>3084783
>lying on the internet
For what purpose.

>>3084766
Again nothing but meme-tier understanding. Not only were the socialists advocating something different from Leninists but they were around and got screwed over way before Marx-Leninism was even created

>bipartisan
Almost as if neither parties has ever represented the Left. Really makes me think.

>>3083184
People were poor(er) before capitalism, they were poor under socialism, they were poor under fascism, they'll be poor no matter what system capitalism evwntually evolves into (which won't be communism).

>>3081492
>a couple of rebellious strikers get shot by police during a scuffle
>OY VEY IT'S ANNUDAH SHOAH, THE USA IS AN OPPRESSIVE TYRANNICAL REGIME WHICH USES VIOLENCE AGAINST ITS CITIZENS.

>USSR, Red China, etc. murder 100 million people in less than a century
>Well you know, you need to break a few eggs to instate socialism. Also, the people who got killed probably deserved it.

>>3084798
>almost as though neither party represents the left
The same reason no party represents flat Earthers or Scientologists.
Their ideas are bad and have no mainstream support.

>>3083094
Fuggin saved.

>>3084802
>Their ideas are bad and have no mainstream support.
>he doesn't know about the history of the American labour movement

>>3084799
I think the fact that people are getting richer has more to do with technology than with ideology.

Also Socialism wasn't around before capitalism.

>>3084811
>he larps as a striking colorado gold miner of the 1920s, despite being an upper middle class jewish boy from the east coast.

>>3084816
>he doesn't know union militancy was more prevalent in the Rust Belt
Nice projection faggot, I am not even American

>>3084841
>despite not being american, he identifies as an american socialist.
El oh el

It's because socialist movements were throwing hand grenades in the streets of Europe.

>>3084858
>having interest in and knowing about the American labour movement makes you a bona fide 'American socialist'
At least you are making baby steps to learning the nuances of socialism

>>3084865
>workers of the world unite XDDDDDD
>smash captititalism XDDD

>>3084868
>From meme tier understanding to false projections to literal non-arguements.
>damage_control.jpg

>>3084781
That doesn't mean there were famines. Importing food isn't famine.

>>3083664
Venezuela isn't centrally planned at all. It's a capitalist economy where only a minority of business is owned by the government.

>>3081533
Individualism brought the cancer of degeneracy we have today.

>>3084766
Well your parties are pretty much the same, when are they going to merge and rebrand into the Democratic-Republican Radical Centrist Party, which is what they both pretty much are?

>>3084799

Poverty is relative. In a capitalist economy the poor generally live in better circumstances than they would in any other system.

>>3082768
People die because of capitalism literally everyday

>>3081779
>Empire=capitalism

Dude, you forget add to the list the roman empire, sumerian and literally every civilization in human history.

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>>3082955
>>will kill two birds with one stone

Like this kind of birds comrade

>>3081492
Because the people they were hunting were willing to kill even more innocents in order to set into motion their "utopias". USA saw the Great Leap Forward and wanted nothing to do with it.

>>3085751
>Eugene Debs was a closet mass murderer

>>3085751
The US was vehemently antisocialist decades before Mao was even born

>>3081492
Because the under 24 kids in the new right movement like being edgy saying that their peers should die. Same reason the <24 year old antifa faggots are insufferable. In reality, it's a failed social experiment, but you can see where the main basic idea came from. It's not an evil ideology by any means, it's just overly idealistic and not very realistic. Lots of horrible things happened under communist regimes and it's been American foreign/domestic policy to actively despise commies for nearly 100 years. It's more disturbing how everyone in the 16-23 age range sounds like either a literal child or Timothy McVeigh now.

Also what the fuck is a "tankie?" I've never heard that term until now. I'm assuming it's some loserchan term that migrated over here.

>>3086214

Looks like our government had some great foresight back then.

>>3086272

It's a very old term for somebody who is obsessed with Stalinist-era USSR and similar regimes.

>>3086272
Tankie refers to authoritarian socialists. It is a specific reference to events like the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 where instead of resolving things peacefully the USSR decided to send in tanks and soldiers as shows of force.

>>3084290
>private property and freedom of trade still exist in most countries around the world
>"socialist takeover"

>>3085552
I'm agreeing with you, poor people existing does not mean capitalism is a failure, especially when a poor person under capitalism is still richer than a poor person under socialism.
The fact that the biggest health problem facing the poor in the US is obesity, too much food, is proof of this.

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Can any communists explain to me why the proletariat, particularly farmers and heavy industry workers, in America are so staunchly anti-communist if its supposed to help them? Seems like the only people pushing communism are the bourgeoisie (middle-class) without consulting or even mixing with the proletariat they claim to represent.

>>3087980

>Seems like the only people pushing communism are the bourgeoisie (middle-class) without consulting or even mixing with the proletariat they claim to represent.

You basically described Marx and his typical adherent, for fucks sake the Communist Manifesto was written for the bourgeois. Communism is nothing more than a bourgeois ideology that arrogantly asserts that it knows what is best for everyone.

This is anecdotal evidence but every self-professed communist I know came from middle and upper class backgrounds.

>>3081522
The American founding fathers were undeniably proto-leftists.

Read Thomas Paine.

>>3088826
>all leftism is Socialism

>>3084799
Doesn't change the fact that people that are poor under a capitalist system are poor because of the system.

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>>3087980
>>3088823
>the proletariat, particularly farmers and heavy industry workers, in America are so staunchly anti-communist if its supposed to help them
How can someone posting in a thread specifically about the American labour movement not know that these people were the only reasons America even had a labour movement to begin with?

>>3083288
>millions starving to death every year is the human condition
Good job just absolving communism of its crimes you retard.

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If everyone starves nobody goes hungry, if everyone's poor nobody is.

>>3081492
Imagine someone goes around saying "people belonging to category X should be killed". When asked to clarify his stance, he keeps repeating that those people have to be killed, some other category has to be put into camps and so on and so forth.
Why exactly does a person like that deserve to be treated like an average law abiding citizen? It doesn't make any sense.

>>3089013
And as a consequence the early labor movement was full of violent radicals and rejected by mainstream society.

Good to see you leftypol spastics getting blown out as usual, fuck off back to your shithole board.

>>3089138
Still got shit done. 8 hour work week and MayDay.

[spoiler] Also New Deal would never have happened without the labour movement backing it

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>>3089753
forgot pic

The problem with socialism is that it's pushed mainly by the left, and the left are a mass of miserable anti-nationalist traitors and foreign subversives who use the ideas of socialism as a means to convince people their nation should be betrayed.
That is all the left pretends to believe in socialism for, even 100 years ago people knew this. In the modern day they're just anti-white, that's all there is to them.

Socialism itself is actually the superior economic system for any level-headed person capable of being convinced of anything on a rational level, but it's something that ought to be implemented by right-minded people, and not leftists.

>>3089132
At some degree everyone supports something like that.

>>3081492
ITT
>Real communism/socialism had never been tried.

>>3081955
It's sick seeing thatm not surprising by how many idiots in the UK thought corbyn was good or the idiot Bernie bros.

>>3082089
Another reason why I like facism

>>3081898
Progressive politics by today's standards is just dog whistle Marxism.

>>3082576
Destroying white supreamcy is destroying the white race. What do you think that actually means?

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>>3089916
>I am mad that people like things that I am mad about

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>>3081595
Lol ok f@m

>>3089916
>t's sick seeing thatm not surprising by how many idiots in the UK thought corbyn was good
As opposed to the lack of any governement spending or internvetion which brought such hits as "Overcrowded A&E departments", and that jolly classic "Grenfall tower burns killing 80", and it's sequel "Practically all council houses are gunpowder barrels waiting for a match"

May's a fucking terrible PM, she called an early election that should've been a beheading and ended up in a miniority government only kept in because unionists are terrified of splitting the unionist vote.

>>3082644
>muh esjaydoobleus
Fuck off, get this GG cancer off my board

>>3082576
>>3082720
Socialism is fine as long as there's segregation. The problem here is that you think socialism is more important than segregation, whereas the smart man sees that segregation is more important.

>>3089991
>Mom I got spaghetti sauce on my Stephen Universe shirt again!

>>3087980
95% of communists are farmers and workers in the third world

>there are people who seriously think the U.S. was a democratic country before the Civil Rights Movement
Americans...

>>3089928
Absolutely not. It's identitarian capitalism peddled by people who dislike racism but don't think there's anything seriously wrong with the foundations of American society.

>>3090131
What is the meaning of democratic when lefties use it? I'm actually genuinely curious
Why is something like outlawing miscegenation/gay marriage, for example, undemocratic?

>>3090139
>identitarian
u wot

>>3090146
The democracy of the United States was crafted to ensure that minorities weren't consistently outvoted and opressed, protections against the "tyranny of the majority" are abundant in the consitution, from the makeup of the senate, it's staggered elections, the presidents veto, all of it ensures that bills that seek to relinqush the rights of Americans have a harder time to get passed, as controlling all three branches at the same time is difficult, especially with fillibustering rules, which essentially require senate owner ship to be at 66% instead of the standard of legislatures (like in Britain) where a simple 1 person majority can win any vote put forth to the commons, when governments deliberatley pass bills that take rights away from minorities, some owuld argue that it goes against the spirit of the constitution, which goes oput of it's way to try and prevent majorities from taking rights and stopping groups of people from engaging in activities.

Or at least, that's how i'd assume they'd argue that anti gay marriage and bathroom regulatiojns are against democracy, I'm British, i probably don't have a placec to speak on this.

>>3090181
Resisting "tyranny of the majority" is a counter-democratic move. Those protections against such a thing were explicitly put in for the purpose of curtailing what the founders knew democracy did.

It's true that the original constitution was not democratic, but I'd say it was the ending of the old procedure where the Senate was elected by state legislatures rather than the people of the state that made the U.S. more democratic, not a movement made of a minority and enforced from the top by politicians.

>>3090264
Err, "the original constitution was less democratic", sorry. It was still relatively democratic.

>>3090090
First of all, you pulled that number out your ass unless you can show me a scholarly source. Second, the thread is talking about communism in America, so stop evading the question and answer me

>>3089013
Okay, so that was in the 30's. Jump to 2017 and we see farmers and blue collar workers giving Trump the election. What happened to change that demographic? I got some ideas, mainly NAFTA and The Great Recession, but I'm curious what communists think.

>>3090264
>Resisting "tyranny of the majority" is a counter-democratic move. Those protections against such a thing were explicitly put in for the purpose of curtailing what the founders knew democracy did.
This is true, even the most ardent liberal has to concede that total democracy is not very likely to succeed, regardless some of the most important technological innovations in history have been made in democratic government, Americans see democracy as synonymous with liberty (which it often is) so stripping someone of their liberty is seen as undemocratic.

>>3090272
Nazi Germany was relatively democratic compared to Communist Russia.

>>3081510
The fact that communist revolutions only happen in 3rd world shitholes is proof 1st world countries don't want or need it.

>>3090272
Learn to greentext and drop the fillers "err, umm, ahh" when posting, Reddit.

>>3082089
>why don't you capitalists understand my 65 genders of communism
>ummmm capitalism is literally fascism

>>3081492
It's justified because it protects or individual liberties and American values.

holy fuck leftypol getting btfo ITT


I thought they were communist intellectuals

>>3090414
Mmm, "seen as" seems a cop out to me. To me that seems to be "people say this so it's true"
If the issue at hand is "liberty", then say "liberty", not "democracy". "Liberty" at this point may seem like a gay buzzword, but by saying something's "undemocratic" when you mean "illiberal", you turn democracy into just as meaningless a buzzword, and I don't think that's something people should want at this time.

>>3082260
Mussolini liked socialist ideas more early on, and then when the war was lost turned back to them again. Fascism is more defined by ultra-nationalism than by the economic system of the 20's-40's regimes, imo. The predominance of "Fascism is capitalism's last breath!" type thinking is really only there because of how powerful Marxist ideology became after the war.

>>3090451
>what is free speech

>>3090545
Communists want to harm me for the amount of money I make thus violence against them is justified.

#punchacommie

>>3082717
>choke the market and fuck with the money supply
>surprised when it's lackluster or fails
Whoa

>>3090556
Again,
>free speech

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>>3090482
>BTFO
>thread about American socialism
>right wingers spew Cold War propaganda well left wingers actually talk about the american labour movement

>>3091068
Can you answer my questions then? Since apparently none of the other commies ITT can?
>>3087980
>>3090408

>>3081522

>we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

It's the plutocrats and oligarchs who betrayed America's ideals, not the socialists. The socialists were often the only ones living up to them.

>>3092032
American workers largely don't support socialism because socialism -- worker ownership of industry -- doesn't exist at all in our public discourse. The business leaders who prop up the reactionary right and the idpol left have effectively eradicated it from polite conversation.

What you ARE seeing is any candidate who rejects the neoliberal consensus massively outperforming the technocratic ghouls who oppose them, whether their name is Trump or Sanders or Corbyn or Melenchon. Our economy was not allowed a full recover after 2008, and across the world workers are rejecting the dehumanizing forces which lock them in economic despair.

>>3081522
Demanding the fruits of your labor is not advocacy for tyranny you bootlicking shit.

>>3092331

American workers don't support socialism because it's completely antithetical to American ideals of independence and every man a king. It doesn't help that the labor movement was hijacked by Marxist thought which is abhorrent and an affront to working class values. Also most of the labor unions are utterly corrupt, especially the ones in the Northeast which have ties to organized crime.

>>3092331
>American workers largely don't support socialism because socialism -- worker ownership of industry -- doesn't exist at all in our public discourse.
Have you ever been to a union meeting? Not heard about one, but actually been to one? While they never go so far as talking about owning the means of production, they openly and loudly debate how and why they can/should be consented on any business agreements and changes that would touch even a halfpenny in their paycheck.

>The business leaders who prop up the reactionary right and the idpol left have effectively eradicated it from polite conversation.

Again, while many big businesses have sought to cut the power of unions, which I can personally attest to Tyson doing in my small town in Iowa, they have by no means "effectively eradicated it from polite conversation". College campuses are the most glaring example I can think of. What source do you have to back up that claim?

>What you ARE seeing is any candidate who rejects the neoliberal consensus massively outperforming the technocratic ghouls who oppose them, whether their name is Trump or Sanders or Corbyn or Melenchon
So how does that explain why Americans still chose Trump over Sanders? Remember, Sanders lost the popular vote in the primaries by over 3 million. Trump won the primaries by just under seven million. Though we cannot know who would win in a general election, the fact that Bernie lost by a sizable portion in a liberal only contest would suggest many Americans, including blue collared workers and farmers, are far from convinced socialism can ail their current woes.

>Our economy was not allowed a full recover after 2008, and across the world workers are rejecting the dehumanizing forces which lock them in economic despair.
I can agree this explains why blue-collared workers would reject globalism, but what about the farmers across America?

>>3092495
What are working class values and who decides what they are?

Do a Salvadoran day laborer, a young cashier at Chipotle, and a 65 year old steelworker have much of a values system in common?

>>3081492
what if i told you USA is not actually "the land of the free" and they only say that to brainwash the population