Holocaust

Incredible

>>3081356
The fact that it happened is beyond question. Some of the details (like HOW the people were killed) are disputable.

>>3081356
It happened. Holocaust denial isn't real scholarship.

>>3081356
>holocaust denial thread #3081000
>ww2 thread #6000000000

>>3081380
Who are some of the biggest denialists "experts"?

>>3081398
Irving, Mattogno, Graf, Rudolf. I don't think any of them is a real historian.

>>3081399
Interesting. Every single point is a lie. Every single one, that's pretty impressive. Some lies are extremely dumb and pointless like calling Ehrenburg a Soviet propaganda minister.

>>3081399
Is your strategy to keep posting this until people get tired of refuting it so others can get brainwashed? You know full well it's a bunch of lies at this point.

>>3081478
this is a common /pol/ strategy actually

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>>3081462
>>3081478
They aren't lies. Try refuting them. You can't.

>>3081496
1. Because getting rid of the untermensch was an explicit objective for hitler, and he saw jews as german enemies. It's pretty hilarious that a stormfag would ask this question considering most stormfags want to kill jews too.
2. Because shooting them had psychological effects, although they did it too. And no, nazis weren't efficient.
3. Because there's a shit ton of them and they are supported by every kind of evidence.
4. Because most jews and other untermensch were in the east. Not that western historians didn't study them extensively.
5. Irrelevant to the veracity of the holocaust.
6. Irrelevant to the veracity of the holocaust.
7. Because it is seen, for good reason, as an attempt to clean the name of nazis and as an instigation of hatred and antisemitism. The armenian genocide is illegal in some countries for the latter reason too.
Let me quickly add that this method of asking rhetorical questions is absolutely fucking retarded and is only used for brainwashing purposes. A bunch of rationalizations do not constitute even an attempt to refute official history. Come back when you have any kind of evidence.

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>>3081556
1. Getting rid = deportation. There are no speeches or documents where Hitler said he wanted genocide.
2. >germans weren't efficient
funny
3. Jewish lies
4. ok
5. ok
6. ok
7. Many other genocides aren't illegal to question, there is no fucking reason to make the holocaust illegal other than to prevent the rise of something that would threaten (((them)))
"official history"
History is told by the victors. Bet you think Hitler was a racist that wanted to take over the world and kill all non whites.

>>3081573

>history is told by the victors

That fucking meme over and over again.
You can use it to justify ANY FUCKING THEORY

>>3081573

>history is told by the victors

That fucking meme over and over again used to "Add credibility" in ANY FUCKING THEORY

>>3081356
I'm convinced the Holocaust deniers our special needs. If you deny the Holocaust you are probably special needs.

>>3081596
>>3081598

fuck me please

>>3081573
>1. Getting rid = deportation. There are no speeches or documents where Hitler said he wanted genocide.
Hitler's speech to the Reichstag, January 30th, 1939. And seriously, how the hell are they supposed to deport Jews ahead of German lines into Soviet occupied territory?

>funny
Yes, they were so efficient they had two separate high commands, OKW and OKH. They refused to standardize parts in their tanks and planes, ensuring they had a clusterfuck of resupply problems all throughout the war.

>3. Jewish lies
Demographic data showing that all the Jews in Poland, Hungary, Yugoslavia, what's now Belarus, etc. is just Jewish lies?
>Many other genocides aren't illegal to question,
And many are; for example, Armenian genocide denial is illegal in most of the countries that criminalize holocaust denial. Denial of soviet atrocities is illegal in the Baltic States.

> there is no fucking reason to make the holocaust illegal other than to prevent the rise of something that would threaten (((them)))
Yes there is, not that you have enough brain power to realize that countries with non-American attitudes towards freedom of speech ban things like that.

>History is told by the victors
That's why the Lost Cause and Dolchstoßlegende just don't exist, right?

New to the thread, but you're being seriously retarded.

>>3081573
>Getting rid = deportation
Not according to the massive amounts of evidence.

>There are no speeches or documents where Hitler said he wanted genocide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWx7nq_lnQM

>Jewish lies
Great argument.

>Many other genocides aren't illegal to question
Some are and some aren't.

>History is told by the victors
You're a retard.

>>3081619
>>3081608
>what is the haavara agreement
Concentration camps existed to contain the Jews until after the war. And your speech link has no subtitles. I sure do know that he's saying what you say he's saying!
>demographics
Many Jews ran off into the soviet union.
No, there are no reasons other than to prevent the rise of a threat against Jewry.
History is told by the victors. You two are retards.

The handful of countries that ban holocaust denial explicitly did it to preclude neo-Nazi movements from using "skepticism" about the holocaust to recruit new followers and incite hatred for Jews. Sort of like how Stormfront is doing EXACTLY THAT right now!

>>3081380
>>3081399
>>3081462
>>3081454
>>3081478
>>3081496
>>3081556
>>3081573
>>3081596
>>3081598
>>3081600
>>3081608
>>3081619
>>3081629


Websites:
http://codoh.com/
https://holocausthandbooks.com/
https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
http://www.eliewieseltattoo.com/
http://germarrudolf.com/

Videos
>One Third of the Holocaust
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7dxsVSzL4HE&t=0h0m0s
>The Chemistry of Auschwitz
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yddMuQhaDbw&t=0h0m0s
>Buchenwald: A Dumb, Dumb Portrayal of Evil
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wVZ_5yWmBRk
>J Rizoli Channel
https://m.youtube.com/user/RizoliTV1

Reading:
>The "Extermination Camps" of "Aktion Reinhard" (Rebuttal to Holocaust Controversies bloggers)
https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/28-tecoar-long.pdf
>The Leuchter Report (Chemical tests on gas chambers)
https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/16-tlr.pdf
>The Rudolf Report (Vindication of Leuchter)
https://zaidpub.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/holocaust_-the-rudolf-report.pdf
>Lectures on the Holocaust (Great read for beginners)
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/15-loth.pdf

Pastebin:
https://pastebin.com/Uc1EkvGZ

>>3081629
>what is the haavara agreement
Something well before his statements of annihilation. This might come as a shock to you, but sometimes policies shift.

>Concentration camps existed to contain the Jews until after the war.
WHich is why they needed to have cremation capacity to incinerate the entire camp population in a week, and transit records show millions more people coming in than coming out?

>Many Jews ran off into the soviet union.
No they didn't. How could they? The borders were closed.

>No, there are no reasons other than to prevent the rise of a threat against Jewry.
So, the illegality of denying the Armenian genocide is also to "prevent the rise of a threat against Jewry"?

>History is told by the victors.
No it isn't. In fact, the Nazis rose to power primarily on pseudohistory told by the losers of WW1.

>>3081629
>Concentration camps existed to contain the Jews until after the war.
Train records have millions of jews deported to concentration camps and magically disappearing. So no, they didn't contain them.
Not to mention all the evidence supporting extermination.

>And your speech link has no subtitles. I sure do know that he's saying what you say he's saying!
There's a transcript in the description. There's also a bunch of stormtards in the comments translating and justifying him. Now this defense reeks of desperation, what you claimed is objectively wrong and you know it. Then again, the /pol/tard pics you keep posting have been refuted again and again, so it's not like you care about truth.

>Many Jews ran off into the soviet union.
Please be my guest and provide ANY kind of evidence for this claim. In fact, I'd like to know why train records show jews being sent to death camps and never coming out. Was there a magical portal to allied countries in those camps?

>History is told by the victors.
>I CAN BELIEVE WHAT I WANT I DON'T NEED EVIDENCE STOP BULLYING ME!

>>3081649
>cremation
They literally did not have enough coke to burn all the bodies, and why would they waste materials during a war against the soviets?
2, jews help their own
3,I'm talking about the holohoax not armenia, autist.
4 Yes it is
>>3081652
no evidence supportiomg extermination other than witness testimonies

you goyim are autistic, see
>>3081646

>>3081646
>literally no argument but youtube videos and shit refuted to death like the leuchter report
How can historians ever recover!

>>3081652
also the transcript still isnt english, jew

>>3081664
>not bothering to look at other arguments
well i guess 12 trillion jews really did die

>>3081658
>They literally did not have enough coke to burn all the bodies
Yes they did. https://archive.org/stream/BodyDisposalAtAuschwitzTheEndOfHolocaustDenial/BDA_djvu.txt

> and why would they waste materials during a war against the soviets?
The same reason they wasted enormous amounts of steel on the XXI submarine, or that huge sink of money, scientific endeavor, and fuel that was the V rocket program that produced no military results. They were actually pretty inefficient and driven by ideology first, results second.

>2, jews help their own
The Soviet Union wasn't Jewish, and of course, that doesn't matter as the borders were closed and were a warzone under a regime that sharply limited travel. There is also of course no evidence of the Jewish population of the USSR rising to accomodate these extra Jews, and a lot of stuff like the Jager report talking about how the Germans were killing Jews in the USSR as well.

>3,I'm talking about the holohoax not armenia, autist.
Yes, but Armenian genocide denial is also banned. Clearly, if the reason for the banning of genocidal denial is to "aid international jewry", other genocidal denials must be in the same category.

>4 Yes it is
Then how did the Dolchstoßlegende get started?

>>3081658
>no evidence supporting extermination other than witness testimonies
>
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
http://4archive.org/board/his/thread/509405
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

>>3081665
>stormfag is too retarded to translate a text, read the comments, or google a translated version
>stormfag finds himself incapable of defending his position and accuses everyone of being part of the conspiracy

>>3081668
>not bothering to look at other arguments
But I did. Not that they can be considered arguments.
>a bachelor in arts that didn't know what the concentration of gas to kill humans was and performing the wrong chemical test on random pieces of brick that were subjected to rain in a laboratory that didn't know what he was trying to do and pulverized the evidence and was later refuted by an actual forensic institute is an argument

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>>3081687
Daddy Mengele taught me that the scientific method is a jewish lie and one-off experiments with flawed methodology are always acceptable.

>>3081677
>>3081687
fake. anime proves that the holocaust didnt happen idiots

6 million is simply an unrealistic number. Anyone that believes this shit is retarded

>>3081738

It was actually more like 11 million.

>>3081738
Several million more starved in the Ukraine under the guidance of Komrade Stalin. When you've got a few years and the facilities to do it, murder becomes much more efficient.

>>3081738
Holy shit, great argument. You should really publish your finding in an academic paper. 6 million sounds to high to random anon guys, better dismiss all the evidence, it's over.
Now that I think about it, 80% nitrogen in the air sounds too high to me. It should be AT MOST 50%, and that's being generous. I'll go call some scientists now.

>>3081454
Irving is a real historian. The court case which proved his holocaust denial arguments false also certified that he was a legitimate historian who had made real contributions to the study of WW2 in the 60s and 70s.

In particular, he is credited with figuring out based on archival data that British intelligence had broken Enigma years before the existence of Ultra was declassified in the 70s. He agreed to keep this secret until it was formally declassified.

His holocaust revisionism was plainly shown to be based on wilful mistranslations and misreadings of primary sources but he was a credible historian in his field.

>>3081884
Didn't he literally make up a bunch of shit regarding dresden?

>>3081399
>Germany had not history of genocide
Read about the Herero War, then shoot yourself in the mouth.

>>3081892
iirc that came up in the trial and it was shown he used a primary source (the one claiming 200,000 instead of 20,000) document that was blatantly doctored and easily refuted by other primary sources. He didn't doctor it himself but he did accept it uncritically to advance his own agenda.

>>3081884
>>3081903
Irving v. Lipstadt is a really fascinating case everyone on /his/ should read before engaging with revisionist talking points.
>Lipstadt publishes a book which calls Irving a holocaust denier and racist for statements he made
>Irving sues in UK court for libel (libel law in the UK massively favors the plaintiff, so if there were even reasonable doubt about his claims he would win)
>Irving contends he said nothing false, so the trial essentially becomes an inquest into proving or disproving the gas chambers, Hitler's intent to commit genocide, and whether Dresden was a war crime
>the court has to subpeona John Keegan as a hostile witness in order to attest that Irving was, at one point, a credible historian
>auschwitz photos publicly examined by experts (the one point the judge found in Irving's favor was that there is reasonable doubt whether the photo of the crematoria shows the holes in the roof)
>supposedly contradictory eyewitness testimony reviewed and explained
>linguistic analysis of the translation of words like 'ausrotten'
>detailed examination of the Leuchter and Pressac reports

If anyone says they never gave the "evidence" a fair hearing, they quite literally did in a public trial. You can read the transcripts.

>>3081954
Not the guy who posted this, but if you want hte conclusion:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2000/115.html

And if you want the transcripts themselves
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/

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>>3081573

>he thinks the Germans were efficient

>>3081700
Yes that's true. The cyanide-ions found on the walls were actually just from the prussian blue, used by the jewish children to finger paint on the walls at their day care center

>>3081954
I never understood where this meme about "ausrotten" came from, to a native German speaker, it has only one meaning (to exterminate), did they mistake it with "ausroden"?

>>3081658

>why would they waste resources

See also:

>>3081987

>>3081665

If only there was some kind of free translation service, that was able to instantly translate copied text from German into English...

>auschwitz had what looks like a swimming pool
>therefore forensic evidence of mass graves with bones with cut marks, fractures and expended bullets is invalid

>>3081356
They aren't credible at all.

Holocaust denial is the Flat earth theory of history.

>>3081738
Again special needs.

If the gas chamber was really just a basement morgue, why did the Germans remove the corpse slide and replace it with stairs?
Did they expect the corpses to walk down there for autopsy?

>>3082059
Yes. With advanced German science, it was possible to have corpses walk.

>>3081668
Nice straw man there buddy. 6 million Jews died in total including around 5 million others deemed undesirable. Why the fuck do neo-Nazis make a straw man that "they said that the Nazis gassed 6 million Jews, lol holohoax" no retards that number of jews killed in total in the genocide not the mention the 5 million others deemed life unworthy of life such as the disabled, the homosexuals, the communists, Soviet POWs, romas and other groups targeted for murder.

>>3081363
fpbp

>>3081596
>That fucking meme over and over again.
>You can use it to justify ANY FUCKING THEORY
Not an argument. Look faggot, i don't care about the Holocaust or your crusade against Anti-Semites and Fascism, but don't even for an atom of a second delude yourself that ''History is written by the victors'' isn't true. If Hitler had won. Everyone with a hook nose would be soap right now and Hitler would've gone down as one of the greatest European rulers along with Julius Caesar and Charlemagne. Who both committed Genocides, but are forgotten because they aren't recent.

>>3082426
I think you are forgetting something retard, by the 1940s, genocide was looked down upon by most in civilized society. Hell the fucking colonial powers in Europe saw how fucked up Belgian Congo and how savage and barbaric King Leopold was, so no not one second would anyone in history look up to Hitler and the Natsoc regime and say "What a great leader Hitler was."

>>3081573
>funny
How is it possible to be this misinformed?

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Were the masturbation machines real?

>>3082445
JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ

JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ!

(((THEM)))

See how it works you niggerkikecuckcommietrannydildobeanergookshill?

tl;dr, this is your brain on ideology.

>>3082426
If history is written by the victors, why are there loads of testmants and autobiographies about the Nazis? Germany didn't magically fucking disappear after ww2, their point of view is still known and even taught in schools.

>>3082426
Nazi germany was a totalitarian regime that could direct what historians wrote. Nobody is is telling you what you write. The problem is that stormfags don't have any argument, so they victimize themselves to rationalize why their pseudohistory is laughed at.

>>3082426
>but don't even for an atom of a second delude yourself that ''History is written by the victors'' isn't true.
Then explain the Dolchstoßlegende. How could it possibly be something not only taught, but widely believed, and in fact instrumental to the rise of the Nazi party? After all, the victorious Entente was very much against such a notion.

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>>3081356
>>3081356
There are so many revisionist historians and some are really good and some are pure garbage.

You should start by youtubing david Irving. David Irving was at one time considered one of the best World War II historians around. His book about the Allied bombing of Dresden was and still is considered one of the greatest books on the subject . He speaks and reads German fluently and has uncovered so much information from the archives that most historians will never even get close to in their life.
>over the last 50 or so years he has gotten a detail here and there wrong but he always corrects himself in the revised versions of his books and explains how and why he got it wrong.

This is a good warm up .its about himmler. How he lived and how he died.
https://youtu.be/qLZV43m0EJs

Check this one out too.
https://youtu.be/97L_SJrPl6g
>That is if you are genuinely curious
> I honestly would not recommend it though. Once you go down that hole and you realize the lies that have been told and the purpose of those lies it will fuck your head up.

I don't mean it will turn you into a stormfag. I hope not at least because who needs that in their life. I mean the betrayal you will feel will hit you hard. David Irving is a good start but there are many others that are also good.
>some revisionist historians are gratuitously racist but that doesn't mean they are wrong about everything, however when someone is outwardly racist you have to wonder about their motivations and their judgment on the subject. Below is a good example of someone who is extremely knowledgeable, educated and makes a good argument. Try to tear apart his argument with facts. Been doing this lately for E Michael Jones but not having much luck and it is making me depressed.
https://youtu.be/iXfOctB-Psc

>>3082489
>His book about the Allied bombing of Dresden was and still is considered one of the greatest books on the subject
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>3082489
>David Irving was at one time considered one of the best World War II historians around.His book about the Allied bombing of Dresden was and still is considered one of the greatest books on the subject

You do realize it is heavily discredited, and has been since at least the 80s, when one of his 'Principal sources' Max Funfack, wrote about how all the stuff Irving attributed to him was BS and that most of the sources he used to get his six figure death tolls were obvious forgeries, right?

>>3082442
>I think you are forgetting something retard, by the 1940s, genocide was looked down upon by most in civilized society.
Not even remotely true. All anyone needs to do is see what Winston Churchill did in the Bengal famine and India to realize what you said is pure and utter nonsense. Modren day Europeans aren't ''Peaceful'' and ''Tolerant'' because of some racial supperiorty like the Right would say, nor is it because of some Supperior Ideologies like the Left would say. Modren day Europeans are ''Peaceful'' and ''Torleant'' thanks to the economic prosperity of the West and the fact they are at the top. Take those two things out, and they will be just as Imperialistic and Violent as their ancestors.
>Hell the fucking colonial powers in Europe saw how fucked up Belgian Congo and how savage and barbaric King Leopold was
No they didn't give a toss. As long he didn't to mess with them in their colonies, they couldn't careless about his artificial state.
>>3082442
>so no not one second would anyone in history look up to Hitler and the Natsoc regime and say "What a great leader Hitler was."
Yeah that's because he lost. People don't admire losers.

>>3082489
>His book about the Allied bombing of Dresden was and still is considered one of the greatest books on the subject .
Oh yeah, the one where he claimed 300,000 died in the bombings when it was actually 20,000?
Nobody takes Irving seriously anymore

>>3082455
>Germany didn't magically fucking disappear after ww2
It actually did. The Allies took Western Germany and the Soviets took Eastern Germany.
>their point of view is still known and even taught in schools.
Yeah, i'm sure saying Nazis were Satan in human form was what their viewpoints about themselves were.

>>3081608
>There are no speeches or documents where Hitler said he wanted genocide.
Apart from when he literally says towards the end of Der Ewige Jude that "if the international finance Jews push the world into another world war then the result will not be a victory for Jewry but the complete annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe"?

>>3082458
>Nobody is is telling you what you write.
Considering ''Denazification'' was a thing. I'm going to call bullshit.

>>3082524
That was the one I mentioned, yes. I think you mis-clicked who you're replying to.

>>3082505
>>3082521
Going to address the stab in the back myth anytime soon?

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>ITT: Stormfags get BTFO

>>3082460
>After all, the victorious Entente was very much against such a notion.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

>>3082528
>it's not that my retarded ideology doesn't have any arguments, it's that a postwar policy carried out in germany in austria and quickly abandoned is preventing me from expressing them! I'm a victim!

>>3082538
I'm not hearing an actual rebuttal, just your own stupidity about how the Western Allies apparently WANTED to be seen as being incapable of defeating Germany in the field (like they actually did), and only winning because of those filthy commies and Jews.

It certainly wouldn't continue onward into WW2 policy and the need for a complete unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany to prevent the resurgence of this sort of legend. Oh, wait a second.

>It was necessary for the Nazi régime and/or the German Generals to surrender unconditionally in order to bring home to the German people that they had lost the War of themselves; so that their defeat should not be attributed to a "stab in the back".

Wheeler-Bennett, John W. (1954). The Nemesis of Power: The German Army in Politics, 1918–1945. London: Macmillan. p. 559.

So, are you simply misinformed, stupid, a stormfag, a combination of the above, or some exotic position I haven't considered?

>>3082538
?

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>>3082536

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>>3082562

>>3082547
>it's not that my retarded ideology doesn't have any arguments, it's that a postwar policy carried out in germany in austria and quickly abandoned is preventing me from expressing them! I'm a victim!
Spare me the attempts at sarcasm and ridicule. You tried to say no one dictated what to write about the Nazis and i called on your bullshit. either address the argument or lost the argument.

>>3082528
Denazification did not invade academia, and it certainly didn't extend outside of Germany itself. You have numerous post-war memoirs idolizing the Nazi state, such as Es geht um das Reich (Hans Rudel), or other, pseudoacademic works like Hitler's war. Denazification didn't stop them from existing, or from being sold.

>>3082574
I'm not saying censorship has never existed through history retard, I'm saying nobody is directing what historians write now (in democratic countries). Not that historians were told what to write during denazification either.

>>3082551
The Western allies didn't give a fuck about the Germans scapegoating their defeat on their Jewish civilians. They saw it as Germans fighting among each other and laughed their asses off about.

>>3082585
>I'm saying nobody is directing what historians write now (in democratic countries). Not that historians were told what to write during denazification either.
Considering that questioning the Holocaust and trying to revise it is literally illegal in many ''Democratic'' countries. I ain't buying what you're selling.

>>3082612
Considering stormtards are incapable of forming a coherent argument in countries that didn't make it illegal, I ain't buying what you're selling. In fact nobody is censoring you right now and you are still incapable.
You only have yourself to blame for a) believing in retarded shit without proper evidence/justification, or b) being incapable of expressing said evidence/justification. Everything else is rationalizing your stupidity.

>>3082582
>Denazification did not invade academia, and it certainly didn't extend outside of Germany itself. You have numerous post-war memoirs idolizing the Nazi state, such as Es geht um das Reich (Hans Rudel), or other, pseudoacademic works like Hitler's war. Denazification didn't stop them from existing, or from being sold.
Who gives a shit?. If i went to Saudi Arabia, destroyed the Kabba, closed all mosques, banned the Hijab, and forced schools to teach that the Koran is evil and bigotted. Who cares if i let some Islamists in Academia talk positively about Islam if i suppressed it in all other sectors of society?

>>3082602
I'm sure you can source this rather sweeping claim of yours that actually undercuts your main argument that "history is written by the victors".

>>3082641
When you say "history is written by the victors" referring to our best knowledge of past events you are talking about academia, not popular history. In this same thread it is used to justify being in disagreement with academia.

>>3082641
>Who gives a shit?
People who are interested in history, for starters. You know, since the entire argument is "The Nazis couldn't get their side of the story out", except when it did get out and was in fact published.

>If i went to Saudi Arabia, destroyed the Kabba, closed all mosques, banned the Hijab, and forced schools to teach that the Koran is evil and bigotted. Who cares if i let some Islamists in Academia talk positively about Islam if i suppressed it in all other sectors of society?
Nice false equivalence there, especially since it overlooks the fact that stuff can and was published outside the occupied country. Are you incapable of seeing how they're not the same, or are you lying deliberately?

>>3082641
>Closing mosques, destroying the Kabba, banning the Hijab, etc
>Somehow equivalent to banning holocaust denial

Fantastic example of a false equivalence there.

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>>3081356

Germans killed 10 million Soviet civilians.

And about 4 million non-Jew non-Soviets civilians.

Japs killed about 14 million Chinese.

6 million?

Whoop de doo.

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>>3082667

Oh yeah and several million Soviet and Polish POWS seemed die under the care of the Germans.

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>>3081687
>evidence
>blogpost
>4chan posts
>imgut

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>>3082667

>>3082777
Every one of those has links to primary sources, retard. The first is a fucking index of primary sources, who cares where it is posted.

>>3082496
Why don't you offer me evidence to the contrary. I'm not a partisan, I don't care about political parties or race. I don't care about winning an internet argument. The only thing I really care about is the truth. Educate me. He has revised the number of Civilian deaths, and the number he gives today is still slightly different from a lot of mainstream historians. That is basically the only thing that people say to discredit the whole book entirely. People only started to discredit that book (which was an international bestseller and is still used as a source by other historians writing about the subject) when he pointed out that there is no actual evidence that Auschwitz was used as an extermination camp, but rather a brutal slave labor camp.

So I'm all ears here. Educate me. Tear his argument apart. I'm being completely genuine because I want to know.
https://youtu.be/UcBVkzpYznM

>>3082806
see
>>3081903
>>3081954
>>3081985
>>3082504
>>3082513

Why would there be a swimming pool and frequent Red Cross inspections at a death camp?
Why would the nazis use the same gas used on clothes for typhus prevention to kill people when more efficient nerve agents existed?
Why would a "gas chamber" have a wooden door?
Why would the Nazis tattoo people that they were going to kill and then burn?
Why were there so many survivors of a genocide supposedly carried out by the most efficient people ever?
Why was right of conquest given to every western nation until the Jew controlled global media was created?

>>3082909
>Why would there be a swimming pool
For guards.

>frequent Red Cross inspections at a death camp
They weren't frequent nor at death camps.

>Why would the nazis use the same gas used on clothes for typhus prevention to kill people when more efficient nerve agents existed?
Because it was already being mass produced.

>Why would a "gas chamber" have a wooden door?
They didn't (at least the exterior ones).

>Why would the Nazis tattoo people that they were going to kill and then burn?
To identify them.

>Why were there so many survivors of a genocide
There aren't that many survivors from death camps.

>by the most efficient people ever?
They weren't efficient.

>Why was right of conquest given to every western nation until the Jew controlled global media was created?
Lel, not even trying anymore, are we?

>>3082909
>Germans
>Efficient

Kek.

>>3082909
>Why would the nazis use the same gas used on clothes for typhus prevention to kill people when more efficient nerve agents existed?

How do you get the bodies out of the chamber if it's full of nerve gas? Do you think they're going to issue the Sonderkommando full body rubber suits or inject them with antidote every time they walk into the chamber to remove the bodies?

Think for a fucking second, you moron. With Xyklon B they just had to run a fan and wear gas masks, and it was also cheaper and readily available in large quantities. What advantage would there be to using a nerve agent?

even if the gas chambers didn't exist how about the massive extermination campaign in the USSR
how do you stormfags explain Babi Yar with massive archaeological,forensic and eye witness account

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The six gojillian

>>3083000
one misattributed photo doesn't simply debunk the whole event anon

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>>3082909
>Red Cross inspections at a death camp?

this is a lie that was BTFO by the red cross themselves in the 70s

>>3083000

>literally EVERY search for this photo yields that its from the Babi Yar massacre and not one claim that its the NKVD

wow, really made me think

>>3083015
(((Jacob)))

Nice revisionism.

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>>3083022

>being so retarded that you arent even able to tell who wrote the letter

I guess youll learn it in the 9th grade faggot.

Alright lads, what is the ONE way to crush naziboos and shut them up once and for all? They don't listen to logic or reason, dismissing it as (((jewsish))) lies and doctored propoganda, but they don't listen to emotion or feelings either and think that killing and displacing millions of people is justified and an ok thing to do.

>>3083022
>get BTFO for the millionth time
>IT'S DA JOOOOOOOOS FAULT

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>>3083032

Start a "Do it again bomber Harris!" meme over and over.

That usually triggers them.

DO IT AGAIN BOMBER HARRIS!

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>>3083032

the finale solution to the stormfag question. Best part is that they dont think its poison so they will willingly be exposed to it.

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>>3083032

Or we could summon that Shitler guy. He'll just post that Hitler loved the big black cock over and over again until the thread is unusable.

Where is he when you need him?

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>nazis dindu nuffin!

>>3083040
Do it again Bomber Harris

How much did the German public know about the holocaust ?

>>3083015
So did they discover the six gojillian in the late 70s? Interesting

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>>3083073

>act like a silly little faggot everytime you get BTFO in the one argument you always bring up

>wonder why everyone treats you like the farce you are

The Holohoax didn't happen but it should've.

>>3083071
How much they knew of the broader implications aka the "Final Solution" is up for debate, but there was some aspect of the Holocaust operating in almost every part of Germany so they had an idea of the Jews being treated terribly and in some cases being killed. Not just the big, well known camps but the presence of slave labor being sent to factories and farms and warehouses, work camps, seeing the transport of Jews trains or wagons, seeing the deportation to ghettos and the emptying of those ghettos, plus countless smaller camps which were built, used for specific purposes (usually labor) and then dismantled afterward, and so on.

>>3083092
This

>It's a Holocaust deniers act like crybabies when their supposed "facts" get debunked repeatedly.

>>3083120
whether it's 1941 or 2017, nazis always talk shit but get hit.

>>3083071
They knew Jews were being taken away and not coming back. They had to fucking know this because they were being given apartments and other property formerly owned by Jews.

Those around the concentration camps knew Jews were starving to death, and knew that this was a deliberate policy because they were explicitly forbidden to give food to any Jewish work gangs assigned to their factories.

>>3083092
Indeed even if $60000000.00 of gods chosen people died i'm sure the marxist liberal pseudo academician larpers of /his/ agree that it was a good and justified genocide.

>>3083092
I'll be laughing my ass off when you're picked as one of the first to be sent to the death camps.

>>3083120
anon please all the documentary evidence and testimony is clearly fabricated by the allied powers to destroy Germany's reputation.

Never mind that the USSR was unable to hide the innocence of the show trial victims or the Holodomor, even when they had total control of the evidence, it's obvious the NKVD would be able to conceal a much larger series of false interrogations of foreign personnel tried and in many cases set free on sovereign foreign soil.

The false confession written by Marshal Tukhachevsky during the show trials was so obviously false that it is literally spattered with blood from someone having his nose broken in the middle of signing it. But of course the American, British and Soviet interrogators of Rudolf Höss were so thorough that his confessions to his priest, his wife, his children and his psychiatrist were all extracted through torture which left no mark on his body. Right?

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>>3083189

>gets BTFO and has no response other than "nuh uh!"

pathetic

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>>3083221
OY VEY I WAS TURNED INTO A LAMPSHADE AND BARSOAP SHUT IT DOWN GOYIM

>>3083221
Can you really not tell that was sarcasm by reading it?

>>3082667
>Unironically parroting Stalin's "Killing 10 million is just a statistic" argument

>>3081761
>>3082053
Not an argument, jews

>>3083071
In one of the White Rose leaflets they mention the Holocaust as if the Germans were perfectly aware of what was going on.

Is the common figure for number of deaths an accurate one? I find it hard to believe. War casualty numbers are messy and inaccurate, and people were actually trying to track those. How much messier are numbers for death rates of a genocide conducted with secrecy, cover-ups, and denials? All of it happening in the midst of the largest war ever fought. I'm skeptical on the number.

Now, did the holocaust actually happen? Absofuckinglutely.

>>3083085
I don't even fucking get it with people on /pol/. WWII ended over 70 years ago, most of them were born decades after the war coddled by parents whom probably never saw the war but had parents or older relatives that endured the war. Why the fuck would it affect any of these faggots on /pol/? I'm genuinely curious why they are this deluded about WWII?

>>3083602
JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ!

>>3083602
The only reason ww2 is still relevant is because its political and economic repercussions remain in effect to this day.

>>3081356
>/pol/ with dates

When can we straight-up ban discussions on National Socialism? This shit never goes anywhere and is literally always /pol/tards shitting all over the board with their manlet ways

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STEP ON UP /pol/, TAKE THE /his/ HOLOCAUST CHALLENGE! ANSWER A SINGLE QUESTION FROM HERE AND WIN A PRIZE!

DON'T BE SHY!

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?

>>3083823
>blacks have low iq's, therefore holocaust didn't happen
?

>>3081356
The men responsible for the holocaust, the ones who didn't kill themselves at least, admitted their crimes in a court in Nuremberg, were found guilty, and finally executed. The guy who ran Auschwitz even explained how the camp was run. I should also say that the German prisoners in Nuremberg were given full access to legal representation and the trial was filmed and documented. You can read every word of the trial if you wanted to.

>>3083823
?

>>3083823
?

>>3081356
Ok fine. Let's pretend the Jews were never killed in concentration camps. Let's focus solely on NON-jewish victims. There's like 6 million others. The Nazis used to Poles as slave labor, you could literally get one for yourself as a German. They killed Polish intellectuals, elites, professionals, which decimated that country. When the war ended, they had to accelerate judges and doctors through 2 year programs just to fill their gap. And what of the Soviet Prisoners, or the Serbians, left to starve to forced labor?

>>3083602
it's cause america is too materialist and when you throw progressivism in there people get angry when they fucked over with no way out from within the system. They feel radical change needs to happen and while others tend to move hard-left, these move hard-right, and needlessly defend holocaust even tho it's much better off if they just make a new movement and stop autistically moaning about this. fucking Salazar helped Jewish refugees and he was one of the "le based fascist" types so why don't they venerate him?

>>3082426

>history is written by the winners
>the go to book on what the Great War was actually like, is by a German officer

What did they mean by this?

>>3082612

>it's a "stormcunt believing his own propaganda about the severity of holocaust denial laws" episode

>>3083773
I want to post this on /pol/, just to watch how low they can go to justify their absurd theory
But it probably have been posted a thousand time already

>>3083071

There's a letter from a German soldier to his family that uses being sent to a concentration camp as a bogeyman to get the kids to behave.

>>3081738
I always find it how people find it hard to accept the 6 million when all of the casualties of WW2 were over 50 million

>>3081884
I was talking about history degree. Irving is an amateur historian.

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I don't care if the holocaust happened or not. But I don't see how anyone can unironically believe gas chambers were used to kill people when none of the information on them makes any sense.

>>3084043

I miss remembered, it's from someone who actually worked at Auschwitz describing the camp and how "one wrong move" could get people in occupied Poland sent there.

http://www.feldpost-archiv.de/english/e7-auschwitz.html

>>3084056

Please, tell us why it doesn't make sense?

>>3084056

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have any peer-reviewed sources to back that up?

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>>3084066
>>3084070
one example
>Gas chambers and so on are demolished by retreating Germans(how convenient)
>they are rebuilt after war and people believe they are the real ones
Even a sub-brick can realise it doesn't make sense
It doesn't disprove gas chambers were used to kill, but it removes all purpose and reason to build something and claim it is the old

>>3084087

>he does think something is real because one was reconstructed

You'll be fucking horrified to visit most museums then.

>>3084098
I've visited many museums. Don't pull that stupid line as if it's an argument. Some of the information at the IWM, for example, contradicted other information I have encountered.
But my point was that it is claimed the building currently standing are the original gas chambers, when they are not. They even went to the trouble of giving it some zyklon b for authenticity.

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>>3084087

that's not a peer-reviewed source anon

>>3084108
>Being unable to come to your own conclusions so you have to resort to obvious one sided information
What's it like thinking you're smart but you're really thick?

>>3084087
Yes, it is convenient, that's why they did it. And only krema I is reconstructed. And no, they don't claim it's the original, although there are photos and blueprints of it. It's a pretty retarded argument honestly.

>>3084087
You don't know even the most important facts.
>they are rebuilt after war
Except it never happened.

All gas chambers were destroyed except one. There was one gas chamber in Auschwitz used for a very short period of time. After the Nazis built gas chambers in Birkenau it was turned into an air raid shelter.
Using blueprints and witnesses accounts they reconstructed this one gas chamber. They built a chimney that was dismantled by the Nazis and opened vents that were sealed up.

>>3084112
Your conclusion is completely disconnected from your premise, which is also flawed.

>>3084105
It's the same building.

>>3084105

Yes,it turns out,not every single historian or museum curator agrees with everyone else. Sometimes they even straight up get things wrong, even though they should know better.

In almost every museum there are reconstructions. Not just big things like houses or rooms, but actual artefacts too, usually with no indication as to what is real and what is replica. It's a common practice and doesn't mean anything.

>They even went to the trouble of giving it some zyklon b for authenticity.

Citation needed

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>>3084119
>>3084129
>>3084127
I don't know why I'm even arguing about it, I don't even care if jews or europoors died, let alone how they died. The entire continent should have been firebombed into oblivion. Everyone killed.
Not worth the bones of a single british grenadier desu

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>>3084143
to add, the only reason I believe I am arguing because I hate the psuedo-intellectualism of most /his/ posters and I would happily firebomb you all out of existence too.

>>3084149
Your "arguments" are worthless. You don't even know the official narrative (facts).

>>3084149
So, is discussing the gas chambers without basic knowledge true intellectualism?

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>>3084153
thanks for proving my point bumder
>>3084155
Intellectuals deserve the bomb

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>>3084153
>>3084155

I'm not a lolocaust dendier but can someone explain why the allies refused to bomb the camps? Were they just a bunch of dicks too?

>>3084031
So far a total of ZERO /pol/lickers have taken up the /his/ HOLOCAUST CHALLENGE ; _;

>>3084307

>why didn't the Allies drop bombs on camps housing Allied civilian and military prisoners?

Stop and think about your question anon.

>>3084311
To save subsequent prisoners of course. The Jews themselves pleaded to bomb the camps.

>>3084307
There are books written on the topic...

One reason being that the main camps were in eastern Europe, and bombers that took off from England would have to fly a long way mostly without escort (what was the range of the p-51?) to bomb them.

>>3084315

There's no way they could have done so without completely flattening the camps and killing everyone in them. Bombers with a range long enough to get there and back simply weren't accurate enough. Operation Jericho only "worked" due to the proximity of the prison to the UK and was a one off.

>>3084317
>what was the range of the p-51?
Depends on the model, but 1500-2000 miles with drop tanks.

/pol/ BTFO

>>3084307

The camps were mostly in Poland, and allied bombers were mostly based in the UK. Look at a map, specifically the distance between Poland and the UK. It's quite a distance, and making that trip would be a long and dangerous journey.

>>3081363
>Incredible
What did he mean by this?

>>3084780
I dont get why the want to take a rather weak position to enforfe their anti semitism

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A lot of Jews in Europe after WW1 went missing after WW2.

>>3081658
You can't even type coherently, you retarded faggot.

How the fuck would they not be able to burn all of the bodies? Proofs? And they didn't burn everyone. That's why there are mass graves.

You people are seriously the most retarded fucking faggots. You believe vaccines cause autism, too, don't you?

The occurrences between 1941 and 1945 involving Germans and Jews may or may not have happened, but the Holocaust as a symbolic and anthropological question is completely real and consequence-creating event in the post-WWII West and regardless of its ghostly features is just as real as anything else.

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>>3081363
kek, underrated

>>3081573
>Many other genocides aren't illegal to question

Armenian Genocide is illegal to question in some places. Does that mean it didn't happen?

Soviet war crimes are illegal to question in some places. Does that mean it didn't happen?

I guarantee you are a burger crying about laws that don't affect you.

ITT: Holohoax believes/(((/his/torians))) get utterly BTFO'd by /pol/acks with pure FACTS and STATISTICS.

>>3085135
cringe

>>3085136
It's true. Look at this thread. No one can refute >>3081399, or >>3081496, or >>3081573, or >>3081646, or >>3081738, or >>3082489, or >>3082909.

/his/, pack up your bags. The Holohoax is confirmed never to have happened.

>>3085135
This. It must be sad to realize you've been brainwashed by (((them))). But it would be worse if they stayed in the dark without people who know actual history to show them how they've been lied to.

>>3085149
I can't even be bothered to read them all but briefly scanning this >>3082489 claim that there are "so many revisionist historians" is complete bullshit. The only one of any note (and the only one he mentions) is Irving. And Irving has never attempted to make an attempt to push Holocaust Denial in any proper history book because he knows he cannot make a case, he saves that shit for Neo-Nazi rallies.

>>3085135
Well I guess you proved us wrong /pol/nigger. Who fucking needs evidence, clearly /pol/cucks have more research done on the holocaust than the so called "experts" pfft who needs a degree? Anonymous users on a image board website clearly know a lot more than scholars or peer reviewed historians. Certainly have me fooled.

>>3085149
See: >>3081462

More about this:

>with no Eyewitnesses
There are eyewitnesses. Including survivors.

But what's more important we have the report of Einsatzgruppe C describing this massacre:

Public feeling against the Jews was very strong, partly because of the better
economic situation of the Jews under Bolshevist regime and their activities as
NKVD informers and agents, partly because of the explosions and the resulting
fires (which deprived about 25,000 people of shelter). As an added factor, it was
proven that the Jews participated in the arson. The population expected
appropriate retaliatory measures by the German authorities. Consequently, all
Jews of Kiev were ordered, in agreement with the city commander, to appear on
Monday, September 29, by 8 a.m., at a designated place. These announcements
were posted throughout the city by members of the Ukrainian militia. At the
same time it was announced orally that all Jews were to be resettled. In
collaboration with the Einsatzgruppe staff and 2 commandos of the Police
Regiment South, the Sonderkommando 4a executed 33,771 Jews on September
29 and 30. Money, valuables, underwear, and clothing were confiscated and
placed in part of the disposal of the NSV for the use of Volksdeutsche (i.e. the
German residents of Kiev) and in part given to the city’s administrative
authorities for the use of the needy population.[26]

>>3085239
More from the same report:

...originally we estimated arrival [to Babi Yar] of only 5 – 6 thousands of Jews,
but there actually arrived about 30 thousand Jews, that believed until the last
moment of liquidation, that they would be resettled, because of the great work of
the [Nazi] propaganda

And witnesses:

They shot people from the morning to night. At night the Germans went to
sleep, the rest of people [who they had not killed yet] they locked in empty
garages. This continued for five days. Nazi brought more and more people [to
Babi Yar], and from there returned only trucks with people’s clothes.[32]

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>>3085267
>All Jews living in the city of Kiev and its vicinity must come to the corner of Melnikova and Dokhturovska* Street. (* misspelled version of Dokhturova Street / today Degtiarivska Street) (near the cemeteries) by 8 o'clock on the morning of Monday, September 29th 1941.

>They are to bring with them documents, money, valuables, as well as warm clothes, underwear etc. Any Jews not carrying out this instruction and who are found elsewhere will be shot. Any civilian entering apartments left by the Jews and stealing property will be shot.

>>3081897
Or Teutonic massacre of Gdansk
Or Teutonic genocide of old Prussians
or what Germans did to Czechs and Poles in 17thC and later.

Holocaust never happened, because World war II never happened. It's all hoax made up by Jews to brainwash us

>>3085328
At last I truly see.

>>3082667
>The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
How can one man be so based?

>>3085284
There is more.

Virtually everything in this one point is wrong.

Ilya Ehrenburg wasn't a Soviet propaganda minister
>Germans killing 30,000 Jews outside of sniper-infested Kiev
Babi Yar is inside the city.
>with no eyewitnesses
There are many eyewitnesses
>and then returning to the site three years later
They built a concentration camp near the ravine in 1942 (Syrets). Inmates of this camp were used to get rid of the evidence.
>using "bone crunching machines"
We have a photo of one of these machines.

>>3085386
>We have a photo of one of these machines.
This is honestly the first time I heard of a "bone crunching machine"
Can you find a photo of it for me?

>>3085460
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa10007

Apparently deniers claimed that Sonderkommando 1005 was a Soviet invention, but here are posts (and Nazi documents) proving them wrong.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2016/02/once-more-with-feeling-deniers-and.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/06/4-more-documents-mentioning-sk-1005.html

>>3085536
There's a pattern with stormfags.
>claim something is false
>when evidence is given, claim it is a soviet or jewish lie
>when evidence that it isn't is given, ignore it and keep posting the same "questions" or infographs
He'll be posting the same shit tomorrow and claim it's irrefutable.

/pol/ BTFO

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>elderly jews right around crematoria IV and V and walking towards one of them

I wonder what this picture portrays

not gettting any response from comments on youtube?, use incognito mode and see if youtube is censoring your comments

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>gas-tight door with a peephole protected in the inside

I wonder what that cage is for

not gettting any response from comments on youtube?, use incognito mode and see if youtube is censoring your comments.

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>SS building department clearly stating the Birkenau crematoria can burn thousands of bodies per day

I wonder what they meant by this

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>birkenau crema II inventory listing more than ten showerheads

I wonder what they meant by this

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>be Hitler and Nazi gang
>talk about how much you hate the Slavs and Jews
>talk about muh living space
>talk about a final solution to the Jewish question
>talk about exterminating them from Europe

Fast forward to the present day

>LARPers say how the holocaust, one of your "greatest" accomplishments didn't happen but should happen again
>many of the subhuman Slavs and others who you hated now call themselves Neo Nazi
>the closest thing following your ideas in Germany is the Green Party

Being Adolf is suffering

>>3086808
nah, we say it should have happened

>>3083946
>They killed Polish intellectuals, elites, professionals, which decimated that country. When the war ended, they had to accelerate judges and doctors through 2 year programs just to fill their gap. And what of the Soviet Prisoners, or the Serbians, left to starve to forced labor?
that was the Soviets

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>>3087304
>that was the Soviets

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligenzaktion

>>3087309
>(((wikipedia)))
Might as well blame Katýn on the nazis now that you're at it

>>3087342
There is proof Katyn was the Soviets. What is your proof that the Intelligenzaktion was the Soviets?

/pol/ BTFO

>>3085239
>There are eyewitnesses.
Oh, you mean the same eye witnesses that gave us the captivating tale of the forced masturbation machine or the minecart in the oven?

Fuck off.

>>3088971

>he only reads the highlighted sections of the selectively edited infographics
>he hasn't read the unhilighted sections that say they were only rumours
>he's focusing on the extreme outliers rather than the hundreds of other statements that all agree with each other and with other sources

Looks like the propaganda worked on you.

>>3086808
>many of the subhuman Slavs and others who you hated

This is a gross misunderstanding of National Socialist theory. Hitler only opposed Slavs and Slavization merely because he was a German. He recognized that the good of Slavization or Germanization was purely reliant on the subjective being either of Slavic or German decent. He recognized that as a member of his folk, his duty was to benefit his folk even at the expense of others, with the full knowledge that leaders of the opposing folk would defy him in turn, but in defying him they are not.

The recognition that your role is to be understood as a supporter of your own folk merely because you are subjectively of that folk is completely reasonable, but it's only absolutist objective autists like you who can't reason with any moral dilemma that takes into account the subjective, while at the same time having a meticulous and stupid attention to the objective without realizing that the essence of it is in the subjective.

>>3088995
>but in defying him they are not
wrong in doing so.*

>>3088995
What good was in germanisation of subjugated nations?

>>3089047
Again, you're so fucking focused on the objective that you fail to see the subjective subtleties of each party involved, especially when it comes to the question of moral good. Do you not fail to see that? Both the subjugators of the nations as well as those fighting the subjugation are good, because both of them are acting as the instruments of their folk. One to dominate, one to resist domination by the other. Both of these are good if you would like to look at it objectively, but the subjective experience means that "good" and "evil" are flipped on their heads when considering both of the parties feelings towards it. This fighting between folk is the eternal struggle of nature, and thus the struggle of humans organized according to the principles of their folk. The struggle and fighting is the flame in the forge by which the blade of the folk is created: The glory, the triumph, the good. Hitler recognized that. He plundered the same countries who plundered or at least attempted to plunder his own. Thus, he redeemed his own folk by merely triumphing over the others.

>>3083773
fucking
savage

>>3089064
>He plundered the same countries who plundered or at least attempted to plunder his own
What do you mean by this? No, seriously. When did Poland plunder Germany?

>>3089093
Most of Poland (or, what we'd commonly refer to as the Slavic culture of the people living there) was under the imperial rule by the Tsar in that time, so the Poles would have participated with the rest of the Tsars Imperial legions of soldiers. Make sure not to autistically spas out for one moment and realize that just because there were people living at one part of the map of Poland doesn't make them Polish in spirit or perhaps even in blood.

>>3085038
>Not being aware of other people's personal space
Poland stole massive amounts of land from Germany after World War 1 and 2

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>>3089114
Funny that you mention that since many Germans weren't/aren't German by blood.

>>3089151
Can you briefly describe then, what you believe is "German by blood" if this does not include Germanic peoples inhabiting the space above the Danube and below the Eider?

>>3089178
>Germanic peoples
They're assimilated Slavs. Just goes to show that the whole pure German master race is bullshit.

>>3089114
The Poles fought in all three armies of the partitioning powers. They didn't fight exclusively for the Russian empire.

>>3089064
>Both the subjugators of the nations as well as those fighting the subjugation are good
Um, no, sweetie.

>>3089064
It seems like a banal waste of time (and stupidly obvious) to point out that the murder of jews was more preferrable for Hitler and his cronies than it was for the jews themselves.

Why should I give a fuck about a genocide which happened to some people which isn't mine and which I have seen to be abusive when they got power over others?

>>3089333
You're right, white genocide can't come soon enough.

>>3084315
but the nazis could just rebuild the camps?

>>3089382
kek'd

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>>3089382
It's already underway. The EU will be majority Muslim within 50 years. With a stable population, that is, unlike in the US, where the white population stays stable and their percentage shrinks due to the growing population of nonwhites.

The amazing thing about stormfags is that they usually believe that basically every other genocide in history happened. Only Nazi Germany would not have actually done such a thing, according to them...

>>3089667
How is that amazing?

>>3089686
Amazing in the sense of "causing great surprise or wonder", not in the sense of "great".

>>3089699
Just because other genocides happened means the Holocaust happened? What is the logic in that?

>>3089115
Poland was created from territories that were majority Polish. A noncountry can't steal if its created by other powers.

>>3089714
The logic is that if you believe that all the other genocides happened, you should not be so incredulous at the idea that maybe, just maybe, the Nazis actually did it.

>>3089114
You stupid fool. There wes barely any fighting on German territory during WW1.

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_5th_November

>>3089726
Retarded reasoning.

>>3089757
What's retarded about it? I'm not claiming that the other genocides happening proves that the Holocaust happened.

>>3089714
There's literally no other genocide with more evidence, so it's completely retarded.

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Everytime a holocaust thread pops up it reminds me to be thankful for switching from natsoc to NRx. Now Jews dont seem so nefarious anymore, and I have less hate in my heart.

/pol/ BTFO

>>3090691
this

>>3090691
not this

>>3090958
what's "this"?

>>3091130
your mom

>>3091130
That.

>>3091138
what's "that"?

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>>3089184
Proof? Source?

>>3089246
If the poles fought for the German Reich, they fought with the full knowledge that they were helping another folk separate from their own and with separate goals, especially more so because the German empire was one explicitly dedicated to the welfare of Germans.

>>3089265
Nice argument

>>3089326
No, not him and his cronies, but his folk. If a man were simply advancing the goals of his clique, this is inferior to the goal of advancing your folk, and Hitler's philosophy stressed the advancement of the folk, which naturally included liberation from systems of debt slavery and interest which had oppressed German workers and folk for centuries.

>>3089732
That is why I wrote "attempted" alongside "plundered" because if given the chance, the German countryside would have been plundered, but as it stands, the country was plundered via the treaty instead. I would kill you and have every right to do so whether you attempted to kill me or whether you succeeded, but not before I killed you.
It's honestly quite a funny experience watching commie autists short circuit when confronted with a morality that transcends their petty bourgeois universals. Ah yes, /pol/ btfo as always.

>>3091256
>you're either an edgefag that thinks violence against other nations is good or you're a commie
Your morality is rejected by 99% of civilized people.

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>>3091353
Nice projection + argument there, pal. Who would have known that the sheltered universalist deracinated urbanite could project an ad hoc strawman while at the same time deploying fallacious and innocuous notions of "civilized" that just so happens to conform to everything he believes in? What a surprise! Universalist bourgeois spasms in the face of the folkish truth are wonderful to behold.

>>3091386
You sound like some butthurt cletus. But no, I was more referring to civilized countries, not urbanite individuals. The discussion is pointless because there's no way to settle it either way, but it's pretty fucking evident that violence against other nations is almost universally seen as bad. Not that your defense of violence has any argument behind it besides some garbage romanticism anyway.

>Nice projection + argument
>project an ad hoc strawman
>innocuous notions
>Universalist bourgeois
Please stop using words you don't understand to try to appear smart. It's cringeworthy and your ideas are basic enough that they can be expressed with the language you actually dominate.

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>>3091450
>civilized countries
???????
China is a "civilized country." More of its citizens live in cities than ever before, yet they feel more than happy trampling over their Tibetan and Uygher neighbors. The same goes for Israel, or Iraq under Saddam Hussein, or America in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Central and South America, Iraq, etc. Clearly you cannot attach "civilized" with "disliking invasion of other countries." Which makes your argument self evidently retarded, because you're relying on some custom made definition of civilized that just so happens to fit in with everything you personally believe in. You are essentially just saying that "My way = good" by attaching that word to your argument.

>pretty fucking evident that violence against other nations is almost universally seen as bad.
Can you tell that to the war mongers in Congress? Or the commanders in Vietnam? Go to Victorian London or modern Washington DC and complain that military actions taken in Afghanistan for their own countries benefit is universally bad, and you will be laughed at straight in the face. For you to look at National Socialist Germany's military endeavors and disparage them simply because of the fact that they are offensive military endeavors, then you cannot stand on morally right ground defending the offensive military endeavors of literally every other country.

>garbage romanticism
Loyalty to a folk and a community is something that can be done RIGHT NOW. There is no exclusive past tense when analyzing the benefits of a folkish centered society. National Socialism in this sense is progressive, it creates something new and greater rather than simply reviving what once was.

>words you don't understand
It's pretty clear that your worldview so far is one common among bourgeois circles, and is also universalist. You have projected, and your notions (especially of "civilized.") are innocuous. Your criticism of simply using a word is proof of the shallowness of your argument.

>>3091493
while you're clearly baiting, whats sad is that people actually believe this. It's absurd how despite being completely destroyed and humiliated by both democracy and communism in 1945, people still spout and gobble up Nazi propaganda.

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>>3091506
>Let me just ignore all of your points and point out your ideology's military defeat as proof of its inherent flaws.

Whatever, this only just proves that any pretension you have to having any sort of upright moral system of thinking is absurd. There are more and more people exposed to the folkish truth every day, and ultimately the embarrassing showcase of whatever fucked up mental constructions you call an ideology can only help expose you and those like you as a fraud.

>>3091493
>China is a "civilized country." More of its citizens live in cities than ever before, yet they feel more than happy trampling over their Tibetan and Uygher neighbors. The same goes for Israel, or Iraq under Saddam Hussein, or America in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Central and South America, Iraq, etc (...)
>Can you tell that to the war mongers in Congress? (...)
>It's pretty clear that your worldview so far is one common among bourgeois circles, and is also universalist. (...)
Military aggression from countries is followed by massive amounts of government propaganda to justify themselves, and even then they are met with resistance from the population. They are never literally portrayed as wars of conquest for the nation. It's pretty hilarious that your example is vietnam, a war that was propagandized to hell and even then massively opposed to the point that some blame the local population for the loss. And saying that "both the subjugators of the nations as well as those fighting the subjugation are good" is as universalist of a statement as saying they are bad (in fact your sperging about objectivity and universalism was immediately followed by universalist absolute claims).

>Loyalty to a folk and a community is something that can be done RIGHT NOW. There is no exclusive past tense when analyzing the benefits of a folkish centered society. National Socialism in this sense is progressive, it creates something new and greater rather than simply reviving what once was.
As I said, garbage romanticism. Then again, the benefits of your violent "folkish centered society" will be that said society will get blown the fuck about after it starts aggressing others, be my guest.

Feel free to support despotic totalitarian violent genocidal regimes, and remember to blame da evil joo conspiracy when you are met with universal disgust.

>>3091493
>National Socialism in this sense is progressive, it creates something new and greater rather than simply reviving what once was.

Curious, what is it that you consider great that was created in the National Socialist period? Particularly in terms of science and arts?

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>>3091653
An interesting question.

National Socialism is just that, of the nation, and social. National Socialism recognizes the state as the protector of the folk and merely a vessel for the greatness of the folk. (As opposed to Fascism, which presents the state as a self evident thing to support.) "Greatness" is understood as those qualities of humanity within the folk that are understood to be credits to a community or a nation. Physical Strength in both men and women is a highly admired trait in National Socialist art, as it not only presents a raw, physical, individual strength, but one applied solely to the benefit of the folk, the nation, and hence this is where the beauty is drawn. National Socialist art is human-centered, and celebrates physical health and mental health purely for the benefit of a good community. In National Socialist art, scenes of farm living or industrial working, common activities, are beautiful, because they are seen as contributing to the community. Thus every human individual is seen within the context of every other human in the group, which is why there is always a volume of people or an implied volume of people in National Socialist art. If there is an individual being displayed, this individual is personified as the collective will of the people, with the Fuhrer being the most popular.Triumph of the Will is an excellent example of this, by having wide shots depicting hundreds or thousands of people in one picture, the viewer understands himself as part of a community of people and that there is a structure and greatness in things that transcends more than just him and his immediate welfare as an individual. National Socialism also applies the iron clad laws of nature and evolution to humanity, stressing the genetic componet in making a great person. Hence most National Socialist science was folk centered as well, having much to do with genetics and family planning, but also theorizing efficient means of group organization.

>>3091386
Do you think entirely in cliches and inflammatory rhetoric, or simply write in an irritating manner?

>>3091780
That's how you sound when your brain is drowning in ideology.

>>3091653
>>3091763
In this sense, the "Rising" perception of National Socialism lies in its genetic recognition. When the wisdom of mankind, or in this case the wisdom of the Folk is applied solely according to submission of mother nature, and therein lies the Glory. National Socialism is not a "triumph over" Nature, but the ultimate melding of the folk with nature, it is a marriage of man and earth, instead of a murder. National Socialism recognizes the value of the Earth and the helplessness of humanity when faced with Mother Nature's laws. Instead of seeking to somehow "overcome" nature as Enlightenment and Communist theory at least attempts. National Socialism is submission and alignment with it, recognizing that to sin against nature is to destroy oneself needlessly.

>>3091792
What is nature? How do you define "Mother Nature"? Why should we submit to "Mother Nature" if we can find an objectively better way to live? Why should my kid die if I can simply inject him with shit and save him? Is your brai n fried by ideology?

>>3091653
>>3091763
>>3091792
The perception of "Historical Romanticism" when analyzing National Socialist art from the outside is flawed. Yes, the iconography of National Socialism draws upon figures and peoples and symbols and ideas from the past, sometimes back into pre-historical primordial past, but this is purely to add to the fundamentally progressive goal of National Socialism. Old runic iconography is historical evidence of the Folk's unique self expression and thus a justification for the folk to exist as a folk. Many German works of art, including some film, take place hundreds of years in Germany's past, but even then it is viewed as flawed. The Jew Süss directed by Veit Harlan takes place in a 1700s German dukedom, portraying a vain and petty duke seduced by the promise of glory and riches to the detriment of his own folk whom he was supposed to protect. This is by no means a romantic portrayal of Germany's past similar to the Arthurian Revivalism of the Victorian age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIvaBOxHDj0&bpctr=1500245907

>>3091869
Nature can be understood by the Darwinian principles of Natural Selection and the Survival of the Fittest. The result of a perfectly adapted creature has always been centuries, if not several millenia of continual struggle and adversity from the elements, from predators, from competitors, etc. National Socialism sees the modern world and recognizes that our advanced mode of living has allowed those with weak moral courage, weak intelligence, weak stature or anti-community nature to proliferate and breed, as the system of capitalism as well as communism flips aristocratic values on their head. One in the pursuit of material wealth, and one merely in the pursuit of the triumph of the weaker over the greater, which is what makes Communism that much more disgusting to the National Socialist over Capitalism.

>if we can find an objectively better way to live
We can't though, unless your definition of "better" is the movie WALL-E, where everyone is a fat ball of lard enjoying and ingratiating themselves to excess.

>Why should my kid die if I can simply inject him with shit and save him?
a National Socialist society would try and make sure your genetic maladaptivity is culled in the population while also taking into account your adaptive traits, so that the people that inherit the folk in the future will be better adapted than the generation before them, and so on, and so on, and so on. A continual struggle and a selection for positive traits in the breeding population ensures a continual uplifting in the raw dna, the genetic quality of the folk. Taller of stature, stronger of build, keen of eyesight, even in temper, and quick witted, Of course, most people do not posses all of these traits simultaneously, so the project of National Socialism is a continual and slow one, because that is simply how Nature operates. Basically, the more positive traits, the more children you should have, and if you had positive traits, you would breed.

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>>3081363
Holy fuck that got me good

>>3081573
>the Nazis wanted to deport them
That's fucking retarded. If Jews were as parasitic as the Nazis believed them to be, the first thing they would do after being deported is start planning to get revenge on the Germanic race. It's much, much easier to kill them.

>>3091923
>>3091873
>>3091869
>>3091792
m8 stop bothering, there's no point anymore. The only lasting legacies of National Socialism are death and ruins.

>>3091869
>>3091923
Simply put: Our modern world allows maladaptive traits to proliferate where before they were naturally culled by the sheer adversity of the world around them for those who had those mal-adaptive traits. National Socialism wishes to renew this continual process of striving upward with a conscious effort on the part of humanity in cooperation with nature. The enforcers of the rules of nature was always nature herself, but now that she is gone, a conscious effort is required to uphold her laws, responsible for the unique adaptation of your own folk and hence what makes your folk different from the next.

>>3091792
How can you not realise the meaninglessness of these words you're using, and the evil they can inspire when put into practise? When you pontificate about the 'folk' etc, and the goodness of conformity to a romanticist ideal of what Germany is (presumably humourlessness and bratwurst and people wearing lederhosen), everyone else imagines the stifling of opposing voices, and the murder of anyone who doesn't effectively settle into the grey background of Nazi Germany. I think that, better than anything else, the way that you can shamelessly gas on about the 'folk', and the 'wisdom of mankind', and all of these other essentially meaningless terms and dog whistles, IN A THREAD ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST, shows better than anything else the malignancy of political systems that result from airy concepts based on what I can only describe as 'spooks', for want of a better word. You've just thrown up a bunch of arbitrary concepts which are essentially irrelevant to a country peopled with complex cultures, systems etc. And the only thing that it will lead to is persecution of those who don't fit into your Mickey Mouse ideal.

>>3091923
The result of "a perfectly adapted creature" has been a society that rejects everything you post. Though luck buddy.

>>3091955
Except National Socialism prefers bumfuck working class Germans over Jewish or Polish intellectuals. Nazism was basically Marxism with "class struggle" swapped with "race struggle".

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>>3091969
>the goodness of conformity to a romanticist ideal of what Germany is
You completely disregarded everything I said when encountered with that question of romanticization. National Socialism isn't a romantic view of what the folk is, but rather what it can be.

Your logic throughout your post relies on eliminating the concept of there being a folk in the first place, which is completely false. Cultures have been asserting their own uniqueness in art, language, religion, politics, and thinking for millenia, and have continually strived to cultivate this, some unsuccessfully, but they existed nonetheless, denying the existence of a folk's uniqueness is denying history itself, the Gallic, Latin, Hellenic, Germanic peoples as well as others all over the world asserted their uniqueness as a community separate from each other. The soil a family works on, the art a society creates, the language they speak, the way they act, their appearence, they are tangible things, they exist, and they have a right to defend themselves and cultivate what makes them unique, and thus what differentiates them from all the rest of mankind. Deploying the innocuous jargon of an anarchist doesn't make a folk go poof. They are not "arbitrary" concepts, because they are a result of all the qualities of a people's existence, the environment they live in, the language they speak, the gods they worship, none of it is arbitrary in any sense of the word, all of it is rife and deep in meaning and significance for all of those folk involved, the only reason why it seems arbitrary to you is because you were never apart of it or attempted to understand it to begin with.

>>3091979
Nice argument.

>>3091955
The concept of the rules of nature is meaningless. Your thought process is disturbingly arbitrary and simple- where political systems are ill-though out, injustice proliferates; especially where injustice is the express point.

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>>3092021
>Except National Socialism prefers bumfuck working class Germans over Jewish or Polish intellectuals.
Yes, National Socialism prized the actual producers of goods and products and services over those who simply moved money or defied nature from the safe vantage point of privilege bourgeois existence divorced from the roots of the folk. Marxism never cultivated aristocratic values, but even more importantly believed in the mental equality of mankind transcending all culture, which we know is false patently false.

>>3092028
>The concept of the rules of nature is meaningless.
>arbitrary
>simple
I don't know, I can see plenty of meaning in a cat being a natural predator, or the bird being a natural flier, or the fish being a natural swimmer, or a tree growing to great heights, I can see the works of natural selection and the craftsmanship of countless millions of years of evolution in all the living things I encounter on a daily basis, that is extremely meaningful.

>>3092023
>Nice argument
Are you retarded? You simultaneously believe that:
a) Humans are the result of "a perfectly adapted creature"
b) Humans are wrong to reject social darwinism and violence
So either humans aren't well adapted, or social darwinism is unnatural.

>>3092045
Please save your posts and look at them in 10 years so you can feel our massive cringe, it's hard to express through a computer.

>>3092028
Not him, but "justice" and "equality" are spooks. The problem with Nazism is that it is insufficiently anti-egalitarian.
>>3092045
>go on about muh culture
>glorify those who don't produce or consume culture
Nazism believes in egalitarianism within races/cultures, which is retarded. There is nothing "aristocratic" about supporting workers and killing intellectuals; in fact, it is the opposite. Hitler was a socialist as a youth, and Nazism is just modified socialism.

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>>3092057
>Humans are the result of "a perfectly adapted creature"
No. In fact, humans are extremely imperfect, and the current system our world is organizing towards rewards further and further degradation by the proliferation of maladaptive traits and the shunning of adaptive ones.

>Humans are wrong to reject social darwinism and violence
Violence is not a goal to be embraced for the sake of violence itself. Violence is only a means to an end.

Yes, humans are not well adapted as a mass, but there are some humans that are, and those who are must proliferate more than those who aren't.,

>>3092061
Nice argument.

>>3092064
>glorify those who don't produce or consume culture
????? workers can produce culture on their own just fine without an urbanite middle class influence, and have been doing so for thousands of years just fine and thank you.

Stormniggers have to be the most deluded, most brainwashed people on Earth. Whenever i think that it can't get any worse than unironical communists, the stormniggers march in and prove me wrong.
>Nazism is just modified socialism
No shit Sherlock, the primary purpose of Fascism and Nazism was to draw the working class away as possible from communism. Safe to say, they all come from same mental stock.

>>3092023
Why don't you use that ROMANTICIST, reactionary prose of yours to describe the Hitler Youth- a group of young pups being indoctrinated into becoming murderous thugs in the name of the party. Or Dirlewanger- one of the greatest mass murderers in history. Or maybe doctor Mengele; do you think you're up to the challenge of bringing the concept of the volk in line with injecting chemicals into the arms of citizens and making notes on how they die?

I'm not trying to point out that your thought process is irrelevant to Nazism, and its ultimate path. Rather, I'm trying to show that vague, wishy-washy terms such as the ones you use directly lead to the aforementioned tragedies.

And no, Germany was not, and is not, a country of suckers, as you would have them be. They were a country full of Jews- over 12,000 of which thought for their country in WWI; they were a country of artists, especially post-WWI, many of whom were at the forefront of Modernism (though you'd probably consider them to be un-German because when they saw a building or person they didn't just see a building or person, unlike the prosaic and blunt nazis); and they were a nation of thinkers and writers, as exemplified by the fantastic height of the bonfires they had to use in their attempts at quelling so many different thought processes.

>>3092108
he'll just respond with
>not true national socialism
or
>murder is justified against those that are against the "volk"

>>3092086
>No. In fact, humans are extremely imperfect, and the current system our world is organizing towards rewards further and further degradation by the proliferation of maladaptive traits and the shunning of adaptive ones.
>Yes, humans are not well adapted as a mass, but there are some humans that are, and those who are must proliferate more than those who aren't.
So "submitting to nature" (which made us an imperfect bunch prone to allowing weaks to reproduce) actually means submitting to your arbitrary idea of who should be allowed to reproduce and who shouldn't. Or, more specifically, to a totalitarian government deciding that, because nature can't be trusted and did a bad job at it. What more natural than a centralized administration deciding who gets to have children?
Don't worry though, your concept of nature is completely absurd and your entire ideology is some retarded naturalistic fallacy, so consistency is not relevant anyway.

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>>3088995
>>3089064
>>3089114
>>3089178
>>3091256
>>3091386
>>3091493
>>3091533
>>3091763
>>3091792
>>3091923
>>3092023
>>3092045
>>3092086

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>>3092108
Oh, isn't that interesting? You mention the abundance intellectual wealth of the Weimar Republic. Romanticizing in turn a decade of the most awful kind never before seen in the degradation of a nation. Where German people were forced to attract foreign dollars in an attempt to avoid the total economic meltdown imposed upon them by the victorious and prosperous parties of WW1, to the point of whole families whoring out their children, wives, siblings, cousins, etc for foreign guests. Yes, such an abundance of pornography, communism, and rootless intellectualism, how unfortunate that the National Socialists put an end to the phenomenon of pregnant prostitutes and sex parlors. You idiot, you think that the National Socialist movement was just a band of brown clad mean men who were opposed to fun, don't you? When you look at the rape that was done upon the nation and the folk in the Weimar years, any brutality done to the creators of such a putrid miasma of filth is a well deserved fate and a reminder to those would try and re-create that filth again.

>>3092125
>So "submitting to nature" (which made us an imperfect bunch prone to allowing weaks to reproduce)
No, it was defying nature that made us more and more imperfect, Like it or not, the march of civilization, especially in regards to the agricultural revolution, has made mankind weaker, less intelligent, shorter, and more anti-social. Our tribal ancestors are objectively superior in physical strength and mental acuity to us today.

[YouTube] What Happened Before History? Human Origins (embed)

>they could make complicated tools that required years of mental training and very fine motor skills, their bodies compared to our athletes today, just because of their daily routines. survival required so many skills, that the average brain volume of early modern humans might even have been bigger than it is today. As a group we know more today, but as individuals our ancestors were superior to us.

>>3092212
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGiQaabX3_o&vl=en

>>3092212
>No, it was defying nature that made us more and more imperfect, Like it or not, the march of civilization, especially in regards to the agricultural revolution, has made mankind weaker, less intelligent, shorter, and more anti-social. Our tribal ancestors are objectively superior in physical strength and mental acuity to us today.
Again, we are as we are as a result of evolution, including those """imperfections""". What you want to do is direct evolution through a centralized government because you don't like how we ended up (as in, you don't like that we empathize with weaker people), which has nothing natural. For people who want to get rid of weakling stormfags are pretty fucking retarded, you're lucky that the rest of the world doesn't agree with you.

>>3092212
(1) You are being completely disingenuous when you purposely ignore the horrors undertaken by the architects and managers of the Nazi states, and their hatred of blacks, Jews, Romanis, Gypsies, Slavs, Belarussians etc.

2. It is your responsibility to prove that the artists, Jews etc were at fault for Germany's troubles after WWI, as opposed to inflation bought on as a result of their debt to the countries comprising the League of Nations; a debt that had arisen as a result of their predatory actions over the course of the aforementioned war.

3. It is on you to prove that the destruction of subversive art produced before and during the Weimar Republic, was helpful to the German peoples.

4. It is your responsibility to prove that Hitler's new economy, which abolished usury (plain old debt to those of us who aren't stuck in the days of the reformation), which helpful to the economy. It is your responsibility to prove that the German economy was thriving, as opposed to what it was commonly thought to be: a stagnating cesspit which was still in thrall to the rules of economics despite its obtuse ignorance of it, which relied on war and plunder to reinvigorate it.

5. It is also your responsibility to prove that the artists, intellectuals etc who you disparage so vociferously, were all degenerates who cared not a wick for the wellbeing of Germany.

>>3092326
degenerate= stuff he doesn't like.

>>3088995
Are you denying that Hitler viewed Slavs as racially inferior to Germans?

>>3092418
I figured as much. It's just really annoying when these /pol/autists stop replying after they've been proven wrong or lost the argument, then make another thread espousing their awful viewpoints. Because they know that if they can't win the argument, they at least talk louder than the opposition.

>>3091923
Tell me this, Nazi man: What dogs are better adapted to survive in general, unpredictable conditions, purebreds or mutts?

>>3092326
1. And? If all ideologies were forced to account for the murder committed under their banner, then all would be equally flawed. To pretend as though the national socialists were uniquely inhumane in their treatment of their prisoners is to deny history, especially in regards to Soviet Commissars, Japanese army officers, American marine corps lieutenants, etc, etc. The only reason why "Nazi" brutality leaves an advanced imprint on your mind is because of the visceral media put out on the period made with the intention of making you feel that way.

2. In the Weimar republic, the Volksgemeinschaft was undermined to the point of non existence, defeat had completely demoralized the German urban class of any value in keeping to German traditions, upholding German faiths and attitudes, etc. That is why more and more forms of art such as dadaism were created, because they represented a complete deviation and end to any "German-ness" in the art produced by the German people, and people in the Weimar republic were much more readily available to accept this, especially considering that sticking to "German-ness" economically speaking, was suicide and poverty. A German in the Weimar republic, due to his economic conditions, was forced to shed off any pride in his nation and be accommodating to foreign dollars and investment. The Communist theory of an "Internationale" is also appealing in this way, and the movie "Hans Westmar" is a perfect piece of cinema dealing with the problems and desperations of the German people in this period precisely

3. With the destruction of the subversive art as mentioned above, the Volksgemeinschaft, the solidatrity of the nation and surety in their identity and nationhood could better be achieved, as the art and architecture surrounding them all reinforced a central and unitary idea that the Weimar era art simply did not have, or even scorned.

Cont.

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>>3092326
>>3092506
4. There was no advanced profit to be had from the invading and devastation of the countries that Germany subjugated, it would take several years of development and organization of the occupation government for the nation to get any worthwhile gains out of a country like Poland, for instance, and even then the occupation period was so short that it did not even matter. The inward focused social policies of Germany from 1933 to 1939 effectively eliminated the inflation and poverty of the Weimar republic in that era. Regular workers were entitled to Baltic and Adriatic cruises even, and the Reich was responsible at that time for created the Autobahn, the inspiration for the American Highway project that would be taken 20 years afterwards. The National Socialist government put people to work AND gave those workers dignity and respect that they otherwise did not have, and the fruits of their labor were plain to see.

5. See above.

>>3092463
It depends on the environment. "Unpredictable conditions" can be anything from the Australian outback to the Siberian Tundra, in that case, there are dogs uniquely suited for those two environments as well. Also, there are dogs whose main breeding function was not to survive, but to be a credit to human efforts, sheep dogs being the best example, but also attack dogs like the Pit Bull.

>>3092447
The question whether Slavs were inferior or not did not matter. Even if Slavs were superior to the German in intellect, just as the Jews were, Hitler, merely as a German, would have had an obligation to defend German interests over Slavic ones by the mere nature of him being a German and not a Slav.

>>3092450
I'm still here. I just needed to eat.

>It's a "/pol/ack barbarians flood /his/" episode

>>3092506
>>3092536
>The inward focused social policies
You mean the massive deficit spending only achieved by taking out loans Germany had no plans to pay back?

Before the Great Depression, Wiemar Germany was doing well economically and politically in the mid to late 20s and had pretty much recovered from the devastation of the first world war and Versailles. The collapse of the Weimar Republic is not due to "degeneracy"; it's collapse lies solely on the Great Depression. If the Nazis had been in charge when the great depression hit you can be sure they would have been overthrown or lost all popular support.

>>3092593
You don't understand my meaning. It was the economic devastation of the Weimar republic that allowed degeneracy to proliferate, not the other way around. Also, your rationale completely disregards any sense of national humiliation, which was strong in the consciousness to those who cared at that time, but the nature of the economy meant that people could not afford to care if they wanted to survive.

>>3092593
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6uh4nvIoIw

>>3092536
But Hitler was an Austrian. Also, here's an interesting bit of irony for you. In Austria after the Great War, inflation was rampant. So, after much needling, the authorities went to Ludwig Von Mises, a great Jewish economist. He mysteriously told them to meet him at midnight outside a government building. When they met with him, he instructed them to turn their attention to the sound coming from the building. He then told them to "turn it off, and you will stop the inflation." In reality, it was the sound of money being constantly printed. The moment they stopped, was the moment was the inflation stopped too.

>>3092614
>But Hitler was an Austrian.
Are you this dense? The pages of Mein Kampf are dedicated to his childhood identity as a Pan-German along with his childhood comrades, and much of the first part of the book is documenting the life of the Pan-German movement in Austria, as well as the fate of the Germans and the German culture in the Imperial Austrian state, competing with Slavic elements. In fact, the supposed "Hatred" he had for Slavs was only due because of the control they had over territory which was undoubtedly German in language, culture, and ethnicity within the Austrian reich. Hitler was a believer in all the German people being united under one flag, and this included Austrians as much as it included Bavarians, people from Holstein, people from Prussia, etc.

And why was the money being printed? Because the Austrian and German authorities were forced between a rock and a hard place, two terrible positions. Devastate their country by paying the War Debt in full with no inflation, or pay less money, but still devastate the country? Both of the fates were disastrous. The inflation might stop, but the devastation was still there, perhaps it would have been even greater, but there is no way to tell. In order for the Germans to better handle their war debt, the only situation open for them was to de-value the marks they had to pay in the first place, and thus pay less money over all, but devastate the country in the process.

>>3092506
1. The Nazis were unique, and they were uniquely inhumane. Soviet Commissars killed you for political reasons, not for your haplotype. It's extremely tiresome to go into their roughly twenty year history, so I will instead instruct you to read the god-dammed thread.

2. You seem to singularly rely on wishy-washy phrases and concepts like "demoralize", and "German faiths and attitudes". There is no point in arguing with you on this subject, as your mind is made up: as you accurately point out, I do not believe in concepts like the "volk spirit", so we are simply talking sideways at each other.

3. Same as one, these are plain wishy washy concepts- volk etc. In England and America, these anti-war and subversive concepts were given a wide reading, and nationalism and anti-Communist thought continued to proliferate. Why was Germany not able to take it, when these countries could?

4. This is a non-answer, and I believe somebody else rebutted this better than I could.

5...

>>3092506
Yet your ideology is the only one that justifies mass murder. And once again, submitting to nature actually means submitting to a totalitarian government to tell us what art is considered acceptable or not based on their autism. It turns out german art is not the art produced by germans, it's actually the art produced by germans when under the control of a central authority telling them what to produce.

>>3092693
Because the Soviets thought that human beings, all of them, were equally mentally capable and had the same potential for "goodness" in any sense they meant it, which is patently false. National Socialism realizes that certain genetics traits selected in a population lean it towards certain habits that can be detrimental the the folk. Thievery, opportunism, deceit, etc. And still, trusting the "testimony" of the most notoriously deceitful people in History is very problematic for more than a few reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnME0QPBRNg

2. You're right. It seems that your upbringing has made you fail to understand the concept of a folkish soul, spirit, or essence. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you live in a city, right?

3. And how are lofty humanistic concepts like "human rights" not as wishy washy as there being a Volkish Spirit? The concept of a Volk is easy to understand, because the concept of a folk is almost synonamous with the word "Nation" derived the latin word for "Birth." That is why the Jewsin diaspora or the First peoples of America constitute a nation without having a state.

4. How is it a non answer? My explanation detailed workers entitlements that previous eras simply did not afford a working German man, as well as a respect for working class and working people in the national consciousness never before seen in German society.

>Yet your ideology is the only one that justifies mass murder.
>Pol Pot, North Korea, Mao, Stalin, Mussolini, Japanese Empire, Manifest Destiny, British Colonialism, Belgian Colonialism, Fundamental Islam, Roman Empire, Aztec Empire, Incan Empire, Mayans, Mongols, Huns, Assyrians, etc etc etc.

>>3092745
detrimental to the folk*

>>3092651
But he was still an Austrian right? Mises was also instrumental in convincing the Austrians to adopt a free-market economy, as opposed to a socialist government after the war.

The economy had almost recovered by the time Hitler came to power as well.

>>3092745
>It seems that your upbringing has made you fail to understand the concept of a folkish soul, spirit, or essence.
We all understand the concept, it just doesn't refer to something real.

>I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you live in a city, right?
Give it a rest, cletus.

What im confused here is that people still misunderstood evolution
Evolution doesn't mean you ascend to a higher state or a ladder
It just means that they are better adapted to the environment that they are in,which in this case the nazis moserably fail at

>>3092745
what does living in the city have to deal with the Volk Spirit? the majority of Germans during ww2 lived in cities, and German cities are just like any other European city, so I fail to see your point.

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>>3092755
>But he was still an Austrian
I suppose he was still an Austrian in the way a French Canadian was still an American by virtue of being born in Maine in a French and French speaking part of the state. For all intents and purposes, he was a German, and idealized all territory farmed and worked by Germans to be under a German state, which was eventually realized if only for a short while.

If Austria was not going through its own set of turmoils as had been the case and Germany was a toiling backwater run by economic illiterates, than the Austrian-German reunification would not have been so welcomed and celebrated by the people themselves.

>>3092759
>We all understand the concept, it just doesn't refer to something real.
I don't believe you do. Why don't you explain to me what concept I'm speaking of, if you understand it so well?

>Give it a rest, cletus.
>cletus
Yup, love that bourgeoisie snobbery, it really makes your case and proves all of your arguments to be correct.

>>3092763
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Soil
Rural living for the German National Socialist was more important than Urban living. It produced more offspring, and had an established culture explicitly defined by the surroundings they inhabited, which was the ideal National Socialist society.

>>3092765
You're the one that has to prove ghostly metaphysical concepts to exist, cletus.

>>3092777
I'm waiting for you to tell me the thing you claim to understand. The responsibility is with you to justify your claims, because you've already made them. I assumed that you did not ask me what my definition for a volk or a volk spirit, or essence because I thought you already knew it, but since it appears you have a different image, I'm waiting for you to tell me what you mean.

>>3092745
Why don't you just say Jews, and stop with ridiculous phrases such "certain genetic traits", so that we can at the very least lessen the pseudo-science behind the Nazi movement. Also, thievery, opportunism and deceit are three words that perfectly describe the perfidious Nazi superstructure and its immoral purveyors.

> trusting the "testimony" of the most notoriously deceitful people in History is very problematic for more than a few reasons.

Ahem, really mate?

3. Human rights are not nearly as wishy-washy because (1), they have a long and complex philosophical history behind, and are backed up by a huge amount of logic and literature showing that the aforementioned concept is highly beneficial not only to an individual and its people when adopted, but also to other countries with whom they do business and exchange; (2) like many ideas that proliferate (or metastasize) on /pol/, it is a seemingly simple concept, but in reality it is a simplifying concept- of peoples that comprise a nation, and what the nation (should? does?) stand for.

4. It is a non-answer because you ignored the charge that the Nazis did not actually reinvigorate the economy, but instead pointed out that the thievery and murder of the War was slow in positively effecting Germany. None of the points you put forward after that are arguments; rather, they are statements: "The inward focused social policies of Germany from 1933 to 1939 effectively eliminated the inflation and poverty of the Weimar republic in that era." You have to prove something like this. The rest is simply more pablum about "dignity and respect" etc.