If Jesus died for our sins to save us, we can do anything and

>>3075962
Yes. Just repent and you're fine.

>>3075962
>>3075967

This is your brain on Protestantism.

>>3075962
read about theosis and orthodox theologumenon of hell and you'll get it

File: pigeon.png (88KB, 230x195px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 230x195px

>>3075962
>If Jesus died for our sins
lel no
some anon explains it in this thread >>3071684

>>3075962
Because there's this thing called the Unpardonable Sin, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

In short, it is Unbelief.

So while your sins were forgiven you before you were born, you still have the problem of being spiritually dead; you lack the living presence of the Holy Spirit in you.

Salvation is being born again in the Spirit; the forgiveness of sins made that offer possible.

But blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Unbelief? If you die in that sin, you go to hell forever, permanently separated from God. As God is Life, being separated from God is Death.

Most of you are dead, and don't know it.

Especially you. >>3075972

>>3076816
No, it's garbage. Barabbas' name was not Jesus Barabbas; Barabbas was a pseudonym a rebel took in order to not have his family exterminated for his murderous part in a failed revolt.

Barabbas does mean Son of the Father, but Jesus/Yeshoshua does not.

Pilate, in a last ditch effort to save Jesus, made an offer he thought the Jews would take: Jesus spared, Barabbas the murderer crucified.

The gambit failed.

I have a serious question. If Jesus died for our sins, and he resurrected, doesn't that "invalidate" the deal? And why is suicide the unforgivable sin? Is it really that hard for such a loving and forgiving Lord to understand some people just have it too rough and want out of this hell?

>>3076848
>People actually believe this
What's next? Vaccines cause autism and smallpox is dead?

>>3075962
>Incoming 30 different interpretations

>>3076888
suicide is unforgivable because in order to be forgiven you must voluntarily repent. But you're dead, so how can you repent?

suicide is a sin because the right to take your own life does not belong to you, but it belongs to God alone. God lets you die or live, so you are literally doing his job without his consent, which is a sin.

File: st_basil.jpg (32KB, 250x338px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 250x338px

>>3075962
theology try-hard anon here

Jesus did not die for our sins. That's theologically incorrect. Jesus died to free us from death. What is death? Death is the impossibility of salvation. When Adam sinned, he brought death into this life. So nobody from Adam until Jesus's death could be saved, so after death they all went to Hell. But Jesus conquered death by dying, and defying death, because he is God. So now if we repent, if we achieve theosis, we can also enter heaven.

Sola fide is heresy m8.

>>3076888
because holy spirit is a lifegiver and a few """problems""" is not a reason to kill yourself

>God gives you joy of life
>You throw it in garbage
>"why is this a bad thing"?

>>3076929
to be honest life without God is pretty shit

>>3076853
>Barabbas was a pseudonym a rebel took in order to not have his family exterminated for his murderous part in a failed revolt.
[citation needed]

Jesus could also classify as a rebel

>>3076931
>life without God
is hell, thats the point of hell.

>>3076929
What is joyful about life?

Legitimate question, literally every society is filled to the brim with corruption and its own form of depravity. Why is living in them, being born in them, some sort of gift?

>>3076944
>What is joyful about life?
when you'll stop being an edgy teenager, you'll get it.

>>3076944
life is not a joy
life is a struggle against evil
if you win, they you'll enjoy life ... an eternal one

>>3076950
Im 30

Now answer the question

Or admit you have no idea and insult me some more.

>>3076899
I believe everything God says.

Why don't you?

>>3076905
Catholic rubbish.

All of your sins, including murder, and suicide is murder, were forgiven you at the cross.

Born again Christians who despair and kill themselves go to heaven, not hell.

Devout Catholics go to hell, not heaven.

>>3076905
>>3076929
>you are literally doing his job without his consent
Do you know who does not consent? People who are born. Nobody chooses to be born. Imagine someone who is born into an Eastern European shithole into poverty, has abusive parents, is bullied through all his school time, is ugly, short, has several illness - both mental and physical -, no friends, nothing in life but extreme suffering and misery every single moment of his day, every single day. You are telling me if this person decides to suicide which is perfectly reasonable given the circumstances, he would also end up in hell. The so called Lord can do everything but yet he makes the world this way.
Fuck God. God is evil. When the man and the woman ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, God was infuriated, because He was so selfish He thought only Himself could bear the knowledge of good and evil. This supposedly God of righteousness, love and forgiveness, punished them to feel pain at birth and to work for all eternity, and also stripped away the tree of eternal life, condemning all humans to death for all eternity. God have fucking HEMORRHOIDS to an entire nation, is this the God of love you call? There is so much bullshit through the entire Bible, I'm not even saying it's false. And literally GOD FORBID YOU TO EVEN QUESTION HIS BULLSHIT.
"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" (Romans 9:23).
God is evil, He doesn't care about humans. This Universe is hell, it is wretched. There is no salvation.
>>3076950
You're just lucky if you don't know what suffering every day is like. You are not blind, you are not deaf, your parents love you, you don't have any major mental and/or physical disabilities, I will also risk saying you are from a first world country. You don't have any debt. This world is pure evil. Condeming someone to be born in this Universe, this Hell, is not the work of a loving God.

>>3076924
>Jesus did not die for our sins.

You shouldn't be part of any organized Christian or Catholic practice with this as your starting point.

>>3076944
You were created in image and likeness of God, you are member of highest race after God, for whose sake everything was created, including angels (deut 4:19) and to hom God calls "gods" (Psalm 82:6) and to whom He gave dominion over His creation. you have an opportunity to become like God (theosis/divinization) and after that you ask what is the joy of life? Study more.

>>3076960
I believe everything God says.
He just didn't tell me anything.
Some people claim books written by men are his words, but how can i know.

>>3076973
Godless people have no access to God's Joy; only to happiness, and happiness is a poor substitute, and circumstantial. Godly people can sing joyfully in prison. And do.

>>3076965
I was bullied in every class during 12 age, never have friends until later age, I have severe case of autism and live in the shithole at the edge of Eastern Europe, but I never lost hope, or became an edgy teen mental gymnastic, with stupid thoughts like
>This world is pure evil.

>>3076978
Are you listening?
Are you reading what God told His prophets?
Are you reading what God told His men to write?
Are you reading what God said through His only begotten Son, Christ Jesus?
Are you listening to the adopted sons and daughters as they tell you the good news?

You have the free will to ignore God, but don't pretend He never reached out to you.

>>3076978
>Some people claim books written by men are his words, but how can i know.

By reading them and judging them for yourself.

>>3076965
> life is bad so suicide is ok
> implying God can't give you a shitty life
newsflash: God can give you a bad life. He gave it to you not because he's capricious, but because he sees it fit. If you follow his will and you carry on in the life that he gave you, you will achieve salvation and another life, one that is more joyful than anything here and one that never ends.

>>3076969
this is actually the orthodox pov.

>>3076973
This race is a plight unto the planet and itself. Life itself is a plight. Everywhere you look the strong devour the weak, all life extinguished in agony. Those that try to make this a universe of happiness inevitably beaten down by the inequities of their peers or the crashing of the waves of time long before their tasks are done. From mountains to sea, life is suffering for too many. Even those blessed with a mostly harmonious life are granted that only by the immense suffering of those far away. This race, this species, is pathetic.

And when asked why life itself must be so your answer is nothing but hollow platitudes and promises of wisdom that never manifest.

>>3077007
C*lvinist or any kind of predestinating bydlo, pls go away

>>3077012
Yes, and why papists and papist-lites are not born again Christians, but pagans through and through.

>>3077014
> not calvinist
> not predestinating

>>3077014
A hard calvinist would never say "if".

>>3077018
hi /pol/
plz go back with non-arguments to /pol/

if you want to talk theology plz bring arguments instead of your heresies. thanks

File: edgy.jpg (266KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

266KB, 1024x768px

>>3077013
t. Edgelord
sage and bye

>>3077029
I can't ask why life must be a constant fruitless struggle without being an edgelord?

>>3076985
"For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long, a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch." (Leviticus 21:18-19)
If you have any disability you are not going to get into Heaven, no matter how pure you are, no matter how much you pray. Your worship just doesn't count. Wheter it's blindness, deafness, anything that is not your fault for being born with, you're going to Hell for being born that way. This probably includes autism. So I'm sorry, but God doesn't care about you, you have believed in Him for nothing. You're going to hell for being disabled, and so am I.

"“He who is emasculated by crushing or mutilation shall not enter the assembly of the LORD." (Deuteronomy 23:1)
If you were circumcised at birth, sorry bud, you could literally be Jesus Christ, but you won't get into Heaven. God doesn't want anyone with small cocks into Heaven.

"Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh." (Peter 2:18)
If you are slave you should just accept things the way you are, even if you are beaten everyday, forced into captivity, tortured, forced labor, it doesn't matter, it's wrong to complain about it. It's really no surprise since all humans are just slaves to God.

"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)
If a child is spanked and abused by their parents for their entire life and as a result once dares to curse their parents in return, this child should be stoned to death, it's not the parents that are at fault.

These are just some of the many passages that show the true nature of this God. He is not good. God is evil. He couldn't hate humans more. There is no salvation. I'm sorry, but you were lied to.

>>3076991
I don't know if they are his prophets.
And if they are, i don't know if that's what he told them to write.

>>3077001
I can judge if a book is well written, i can judge if it's interesting or logic, but i can't tell just by reading if a book is inspired by God.

>>3077050
Leviticus and Deuteronomy passages is about Priesthood (assembley of God)
And thanks for taking the Peter chapter out of context, you ignorant buffoon

2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

>>3077073

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

>>3077027
Like the position "the orthodox church does not believe that Jesus died for your sins" was substantiated?

kek

>>3077067
Since they accurately, 100% told the future, yes, you can know they are God's prophets.

By studying the 30% of the bible that is prophetic in nature, the bible will prove to you that it is inspired by God, the only one who knows the end from the beginning and can write the future as though it is history.

Or you can hope willful ignorance will get you through Judgment Day.

Your choice.

>>3077093
Arent those prophecies vague and applicable to various occurences?

Jesus was a deceiver though.

>>3077073
>>3077077
Whatever you say isn't going to change the fact that God is Evil. There's so much shit wrong with Christianism. Only an ignorant retard with an easy life with no worries our troubles could turn a blind eye to all the evil there is in the world. If God is forgiving, why did he punish Adam and Eve? Why did He punish all of the Philistines with fucking hemorrhoids? Why does He feel like He can just doom all of Egypt to fucking plagues just because? If God is loving then why did He create an Earth full of earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, lightning, pain? In Jacob 42:11 God does evil to someone who is otherwise holy and sinless, why? If God is omniscient, doesn't He already know how this timeline will end? Doesn't He already know the people who will be saved and who will burn to Hell? If yes, then why did He create this timeline anyway? Why does God let child mortality exist? Will a child who is born and dies under the age of 1 go to Hell just because this child has never prayed, prayed at a church etc? I could do this forever. This Universe is hell my friend. I really, really, really envy people who have such easy lives that they think they're loved by the Universe, or that any hardship you face is a mere test of this God. People who have it so easy they think there is a thing such as "free will". Did you choose to be here this day? Did you choose to be reading this? Did you choose your height, your skin color, your family, your country? You didn't even get a word at being born. All your so called decisions happen inside your brain, in a microscopical world. Do you have control over your microscopical neurons in your brain? No. You don't. Then it's foolish to say there is a thing such as a free will. And the worst part is that there is no salvation. Life exists as a dream, and this dream will day end, and nobody will ever remember their dream. Even if God exists, I am going to Hell for merely saying these truths and not regretting it.

>>3077106
Daniel prophesied the exact day that the Messiah would be cut off. The exact day.

483 years from a future event that took place a century after Daniel died.

The precise day, almost 600 years in the future.

Imagine how shocked the world would be to find Christopher Columbus' diary contained the note that Donald J. Trump would be POTUS elected November 8, 2016.

>>3077114
Jesus is God.

The devil, your father, is the deceiver. I say that because there are only two spiritual fathers, and none of Jesus' children call him the devil.

>>3077086
do your research, it does not technically believe that

>>3077123
this

>>3077115
Wow, there's a lot to unpack there.

On what basis would God forgive Adam and Eve for joining satan's rebellion against Him? Do you not know all forgiveness has a price that must be paid?

Do you not believe in crime and punishment? Cause and effect? Natural consequences?

Of course God knows the end from the beginning; He is God.

No child who dies before reaching their age of accountability goes to hell.

Sin let death into the world, death and suffering and sorrow. Hate sin, not God. God did not sin. Men and angels sinned against God.

Free will only allows you to choose from among your available options; it does not grant you Godlike powers.

>>3077132
Of course it doesn't. It has to counterfeit Christianity better than that.

>>3077141
sauce?

>>3077146
The source is in Babylon, with Nimrod the sun god, his wife the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, and their son Tammuz miraculously "raised from the dead".

All pagan religions go back to Babylon.

In the King of Babylon's dream, the statue of the empires contained two legs made of iron; these two legs are Rome, east and west. Each ruled for a thousand years. One was based in Rome, the other in Constantinople.

Both legs of iron will be pulverized by the Rock that is Christ Jesus, and all of its works will burn.

As to the counterfeiting, nobody counterfeits $4 bills.

>>3077158
so what is not paganism?
Protestantism that didn't even exist until some guy decided "fuck the church" and made his own religion?

>>3077123
Thats all with hindsight and assumes the ideas around the initial writing of the scriptures is correct and it wasn't all cobbled together at a later date after the event prophesised already happened. Did it predict something more recent or substantial?

>>3076924
>So nobody from Adam until Jesus's death could be saved, so after death they all went to Hell

Wrong.

>>3077172
Christianity is not paganism. What you call "Protestantism" was a catholic civil war that ended 500 years ago.

>>3077139
>Cause and effect?
Then you are admitting that cause and effect exist, but yet people must be punished because of things that are out of their control. If you are admitting cause and effect, you should also admit determinism and naturalism.
>No child who dies before reaching their age of accountability goes to hell.
Which is? How do you define an age of accountability? Is there even a mentioning of this age in the Bible? If yes, what is it? 18? If I murder a priest and rape his parents at 17 years, 11 months and 29 days of age, I'm cool, but if I drink a bottle of beer to celebrate my 18th birthday I'm going to be punished for consuming alcohol. What about people who are mentally insane? Do they have accountability?
>God did not sin.
He did. He did evil to Jacob by killing his entire cattle when he was holy and sinless. Why?
>Men and angels sinned against God.
That's retarded by itself. God is the one who came up with the idea of a sin.
>Free will only allows you to choose from among your available options
This is retarded. Why do some people get to choose more things from then? People who are born rich can pretty much choose anything. People who are born into poverty and can't get a job must be forced to either starve to death or rob from a priest, in which they case they go to Hell. Such a loving and caring God. As for me thank you God for letting me choose between living a life of extreme suffering every single moment of every single day, and painlessly ending this with suicide in which case I go to Hell. Such a very loving God indeed. Next you will tell me it just is the way it is and I can either shut up and stop complaining about this extreme misery like the slaves in the Book of Peter or literally go to hell. I will die before you, but when you die too and I see you in hell I will be laughing my ass at you because I was right. If you really have a disability you are forbidden to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Enjoy your life while you lucky cunt.

>>3077175
Your analysis is absurd, as you do not know any of the facts and have not studied the matter at all.

Not only was Daniel written during the exile, but the book was translated into the Septuagint 150 years prior to the messiah being cut off. The dating of the Septuagint is well known.

So you attempt to reduce this most amazing 600 year prophecy into an amazing 150 year prophecy, and then dismiss it entirely.

You are not seeking truth, or answers; you are in open rebellion against God Himself, and your side already lost.

If you want to redeem yourself, study the Dry Bones prophecy that was fulfilled on May 14, 1948.

>>3077206
Why conflate cause and effect with crime and punishment? The first is natural; the second is societal. Your autism may be too much for me to answer too many more of these posts, and for that I apologize in advance.

God defines every single person's age of accountability, not me. And God makes good decisions.

God did not kill Jacob's cattle, and God did not kill Job's cattle either.

Not being up to God's perfection and glory is the definition of sin. Missing the mark. Not being perfect.

Because life is not fair. But it's not fair the opposite way you think; the rich man has less of a chance of being saved than the poor man.

And yes, you can thank God very much for providing a means by which you do not have to pay the price of your own sins; that you do not have to go to hell.

You can thank Him on your knees every day for eternity for that. I'm going to.

>>3077139
Also, if God knew how this was going to end, as you admitted it, why did he make the world the way it is? He knows how this timeline will end. He knows who will get to enjoy Heaven, and who will rot in Hell. And yet He created the Universe, and keeps telling Himself that it's people who make choices, when he already knows how things will end but chooses not to intervene. He knows that people will rot in hell, his own creatures, but does it anyway. IT IS ALMOST AS IF HE DOESN'T CARE, OR REALLY HATES HUMANS. Do you really not see it's God who is vile? Life is misery. There is nothing good about it. People suffer every single instant of their lives. God is Evil and you are siding with this Evil. There is no true good in this planet. It's all a torture. If God is indeed real and every single word of the Bible is true, it's very likely He created humans just to watch them suffer. You are an accomplice of this evil, you lick this God's balls in the face of all the evil. It's literally selling your soul to the devil. You get eternal pleasure but in turn the rest of humanity rots in hell and there is pain everywhere. The nature of this existence is wretched. There is not one single good thing about this miserable piece of shit Universe. It's all a fucking piece of trash. You are disgusting. People like you are the worst of the worst. Keep patting yourself in the back telling this God is right without for once taking off your blinders.

File: 82A5B24C-A473-4F1C-B479-9CF7B4C60020-16819-0000154CBD1AB1F6.jpg (161KB, 1250x1280px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 1250x1280px

>>3075962
I thought the whole point of the crucifixion was that goyim couldn't go to heaven until G-d decided to sacrifice himself/his son.

>tfw dumb
Explain blease christfriends

>>3077201
oh are you one of those "organized religion sucks let's just all believe in Jesus and be saved" people?

>>3077182
> well they didn't stay there forever, Jesus let them in heaven after his death.

File: 1489974518596.png (587KB, 720x540px) Image search: [Google]

587KB, 720x540px

>>3077234
STOP. You are so brainwashed it doesn't matter how many times I explain it. Do you need me to start spamming pictures of animal gore for you to understand this entire Universe is Hell? Is it really that hard to understand your life is meaningless? This Universe is full of pain. There is not one good thing about it. Look around you, what do you see? Pain, poverty, crime, rape, malnourished children, illness, disabilities, inequality, hatred, this world is hell. You must be extremely fortunate to not understand this. You must life in some kind of bubble. Tell me, why did God make things the way it is? He knows how it's all going to end, He knows that regardless of how much someone suffers or how much someone doesn't suffer that person is already predetermined to go to either Heaven or Hell, after all, he is omniscient, unless you start contradicting yourself even more than you already are doing. God did all of this. He created all of this suffering and you are selling your soul to this devil by signing a pact that gives you eternal ecstasy in exchange for the suffering of all of humanity for eternity. And that's of course assuming that this so called God exists. Subhumans like me aren't welcomed in neither hell or heaven. We are just born to suffer like animals for our entire lives, we see and dream of wonderful things that we will never achieve, and then we suicide, all of this suffering was in vain and the dreams will never come true. You don't understand. You wouldn't be saying the things you are if you did. Don't expect me to give you any more attention you piece of shit.

>>3077247
I don't have to admit what God reveals. It's there for anyone to see.

God compared creating the universe to a man building a tower. You plan, estimate the costs, estimate the benefits, make sure you have enough assets to finish the job, and make your decision to go forward, or not.

If a man runs out of money half-way, he becomes a laughingstock.

God weighed the costs and benefits of creating this universe, and went forward. Clearly to God in God's economy the benefits outweigh the costs.

You're so obsessed with the costs that you're going to be a cost, and not a benefit.

you have one thing in your life that you must do.

Become a benefit, and not a cost.

>>3077254
Jesus dying to pay the price of all of mankind's sins satisfied God's holiness, justice and righteousness. All crimes are paid for.

So in God's mercy and grace, He can now offer mankind the free gift of salvation to any who believe, because the sin barrier between man and God was torn down by Jesus on the cross.

And quite literally, as the three foot thick veil before the Holy of Holies was torn in half from top to bottom when Jesus died, indicating that the Holy of Holies is now open for business to anyone who wants to approach God, not just the Jewish High Priest once a year.

So when you were born, your sins were forgiven you "in advance", you might say. But that still left you dead. Dead but forgiven.

And heaven is only for the living.

To become a living being, you must be born in the Spirit; you must be resurrected from death from the inside by the Holy Spirit of God.

To have that happen, you must confess out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead.

Do that, and you will be saved.

>>3077261
Jesus saves people, one at a time, whoever comes to Him.

No church has ever saved anybody, ever. That's not what churches are for, and The Church is already comprised only of born again believers.

>>3077279

I'm trying to tell you how to get into the next universe, the one you crave and do not find here.

Listen to me, and abandon your foolishness.

>>3077307
hahahahahah
> tfw christianity only exists because Constantine converted to organized religion
hahahahahaha

>>3077314
Christianity only exists because Jesus is God, died for the sins of humanity, and rose from the dead.

Constantine was never a christian and came about almost 300 years later.

>>3077279
>>3077279
Do you need another crusade you Cathar pos?

>>3077317
You know this poster?

>>3077308
Hey not that guy but I'm all on board with that. I think that dudes problem is your inability to accept this universe fucking sucks and is irredeemable shit.

File: you are already dead.jpg (29KB, 640x432px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 640x432px

>>3076848
>Most of you are dead, and don't know it.

>>3077321
Anon? Yeah he's kinda a faggot. Loves those dicks.

>>3077316
I mean I can't deny a guy with ad hominem arguments :P

File: 9N2sCqm.jpg (260KB, 1034x1346px) Image search: [Google]

260KB, 1034x1346px

>>3077308
I do'nt want to get into any other Universe you pathetic idiot. I just want a second chance. I want so much to live the life of my dreams. It's not something that is too much ask. It's not like anything in the like of being a millionaire who fucks whores in a yacht. I just want to go back in time, and start over, this time, without any poverty, abusive parents, no paranoia, no schizophrenia, no pain. It's autistic but it is what it is. I don't know anything about anything. It's all random and nothing makes sense. That's the truth to everything. The only things I know is that something exist and that I hate it. I'm tired of this eternal suffering. I can't stand it. You have no idea what is like. People like you have it so easy, you can't possibly imagine the scope of suffering a human person can go through and yet here you are talking to me as if I have a choice at anything but to suffer for eternity in this life or hell. The worst part is that people like you go to Heaven if this so called God exists and people like me go to Hell. I will never worship a God who created all of this suffering. You don't understand you naive creature. You're too immersed in your bubble to see any of it.

>>3077326
I don't think I ever said anything to the contrary.

Everything is broken, cursed, dying, and falling apart. There is horrific evil that takes place daily.

My focus is on getting out of this place where I was born, and getting into the place I can finally call home, where none of the evils of this place exist.

>>3077336
>I just want a second chance.

And I am telling you how to receive that second chance, when it matters. In eternity.

Your short life here is not a significant fraction of your eternal life in one of two eternal destinations of your choice.

>>3077321
I think he (I cuz that's me lol) is referencing the Albigensian Crusade agains the Cathars who had a similar view of Christianity.

>>3077316
if you want to think this way, whatever. but you have no theological basis for doing it the way you're doing it, but organized Christianity has theology behind it.

Also check out apostolic succession.

>>3077346
>Also check out apostolic succession.

I don't spend a lot of time checking out lies from the pit of hell. Just kind of sniff them, smell the brimstone, and move on.

>>3077350
if you think they are lies, tell us why.

>>3077215
>Hurr ur going to hell 4 asking questions u heretic

Are you fucking retarded? Is that who heaven is for? Retards?

>>3077356
I have no idea what your greentext refers to.

Ask as many questions as you want of God; He is longsuffering.

People go to hell because they're born dead, stay dead, and die. There's no place for people like that in the Kingdom of the Living.

It's YOUR CHOICE to stay spiritually dead; it's YOUR CHOICE to think that only the physical exists/matters.

File: owl eyes cut off with razor.png (1MB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 800x600px

>>3077342
You are implying that people make choices. I will say it in caps lock so you can understand.

1) OUR "CHOICES" HAPPEN INSIDE OUR BRAINS.
2) WE HAVE ZERO CONSCIOUS CONTROL OVER WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE OUR BRAINS.
-> THEREFORE, WE DO NOT MAKE "CHOICES".

DO YOU UNDERSTAND, OR DO I ALSO HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHAT ARE NEURONS, MOLECULES, CONSCIOUSNESS VS SUBCONSCIOUSNESS...?

There are so many more other arguments against free will. For example, demographic tendencies. It's a known fact that poor people are more likely to do drugs, perform crime, and so on, and rich people are less. If free will really was a thing, then the statistics of crime rate, divorce rates, drug use, and so on, would be evenly spread among people with different incomes. It isn't, which hints at causality.

If this God is real, then He created humans, made them (including people like you) believe there is free will, and then send these same humans to hell. God must be having a really good laugh at you right now dumbass.

This Universe is hell. There is no salvation. There is nothing good to it. People are born to suffer and they die in absolute misery. You are an accomplice of all this evil.

>>3077342
You're not reading what he's saying. He's angry that this universe exists at all and questions the benevolence of an omnipotent creator that would allow it to continue.

>>3077353
First, there is no magical unbroken chain from Peter to the current Petrus Romanus. Second, that broken chain is filled with homosexuals, thieves, murderers, pedophiles, whoremongers, and some of the most evil men to ever walk the earth.

There is absolutely nothing in the bible that supports the pagan proposition that one man has to hand the baton off to another, lest all is lost.

There is, however, in the bible, the clear notation that the apostles were specially chosen by Jesus, and that they were to go forth and make DISCIPLES, not successor apostles.

Your traditions are all of the very same men that usurp authority over you and keep you away from knowing the true living God.

Which anyone can do on their own.

>>3077270

It wasn't Hell

>>3077362
It's still your brain.

And how do you rule out that your subconscious mind does not have a subconscious keeper?

And how do you rule out that your unconscious mind does not have an unconscious keeper?

No, the sooner you learn personal responsibility, the better your life will be.

>>3077360
I'm just asking you for legit unquestioned prophecies whose creation isn't mired in legend and aren't up for interpretation and you respond with anger and talk of redemption and now go so far as to say i deny spirituality entirely.

>>3077374
> it wasn't hell
ok it wasn't the hell where you burn to death ok

>>3077370
> nothing in the scriptures
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Apostolic_succession

File: bdNo36d.jpg (239KB, 1200x676px) Image search: [Google]

239KB, 1200x676px

>>3077364
>He's angry that this universe exists at all and questions the benevolence of an omnipotent creator that would allow it to continue
It's worse than just that. He not only allows it to continue, but, if He is truly omniscient and omnipotent, He already knew that things would turn out this way. He knew, from the exact moment He created Universe, which individuals would live lives that would lead them to Heaven, and which ones would lead them to Hell. Moreover, it was God himself that created sins, for before God, there were no sins. Imagine if I were a God, and drew a line on the floor. "If you cross this line, you'll have eternal suffering". Why would He even do that in the first place if he's benevolent and omnipotent? It gets worse when you realize this line you shall not cross is everywhere. If you are poor and you rob, you go to Hell. If you are abused by your parents and call them names because they sexually molested you, you go to Hell. If you are forced to fight in a rich man's war, you to Hell. And on top of it all He tells us "you have free will, it's all your choice". It's all a fucking joke. I am not even going over the fact that the mere idea that a beardy old man created this whole Universe is completely ridiculous. I'm assuming that this God exists and everything in the Bible is true.

>>3077364
I am reading it, and I understand that's what he's posting.

Because he is deeply in pain, I choose not to focus on what he thinks is wrong with the universe, and wrong with God, and turn the conversation to what is wrong with HIM.

And then I show him how to get everything he wants, and more, beyond his wildest imaginations. He can listen and hear, or he can cry and rock himself in the corner. His choice.

Perhaps the best thing in the world is to never have been born; but who among us can say they achieved such a feat?

>>3077380
I gave you the perfect answer to your question.

Daniel's 70 week prophecy, where he predicted the exact date that the Messiah would be cut off (killed).

You instantly dismissed it because you do not want to believe the bible contains prophecy, because you do not want to admit there is a God, because you want to continue being your own shitty little god.

Your choice.

>>3077362

>Le chemicals mean no free will hurr durr

>>3077389
" First Epistle of Clement

This is not in the bible. Laying on of hands and healing people is not apostolic succession. Laying on of hands and having the Holy Spirit anoint someone is not apostolic succession.

There is nothing there that biblically justifies the notion that one line of men holds authority on earth. Nothing at all.

In fact, the opposite is true. Jesus hates the ways and behaviors of the Nicolaitans, which includes both the Catholics and Orthodox.

Nico over laity. Clergy above common person.

Abomination.

>>3077389
"Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word." The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch. And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them. Acts 6:3-6

By the way, these men were chosen to serve soup.

>>3077419
sauce?

>>3077389
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Acts 9:17-19 (Note: it is also possible that this is a reference to Christmaton.)

This is literally the healing of Paul's blindness.

Your entire article on "apostolic succession" is the best argument that apostolic succession is not in the bible.

>>3077414
> what about all of other excerpts from the bible?

yeah that's why it's in the section "testimony of the early church".

>>3077421
Acts 6
Now in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplying, there arose a complaint against the Hebrews by the Hellenists, because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution. Then the twelve summoned the multitude of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable that we should leave the word of God and serve tables.

Basically the Jews were jewing the Greek christian widows out of their fair share of soup.

Note the men chosen to serve the soup include many with Greek names.

>>3077414

There was always a liturgical priestly class alongside the priesthood of all believers.

You're a heretic, sorry.

>>3077424
>"testimony of the early church".

The early pagan church, yes. The men who wanted to rule over other men made rules so that they could rule over other men. Not a Christian idea at all.

The bible, no.

>>3077428
>OH, NOW I AM AT FAULT?

Yes. You are a sinner in need of a savior.

>>3077428
The part I don't understand is why someone wants to shed all personal responsibility and be a universal victim, even blaming God for their own existence.

You cannot fix a problem that is not yours.

Your reaction to your circumstances, and your perceptions of reality, are YOURS.

>>3077431
>The early pagan church

Ohh, you're one of those bumblefuck "if pastor cletus and my congregation don't believe it it's not Christianity" types.

>>3077430
Yes, since Babylon.

You're a pagan, sorry.

>>3077437
I'm more of an "If it's not Christian, it's not Christian" type.

Catholic.

Orthodox.

Christian.

See the differences?

>>3077438
Everyone I don't like episode 666: Pagan edition

>>3077440
no

>>3077438

Nah, Mr. Chick. Your woodshed congregation are not the only Christians.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

>>3077440

There is no difference.

>>3077432
Ahahahahahahahahahaha.
So what was my sin, priest?
Calling you out on your bullshit or being hated by God?
>>3077436
>even blaming God for their own existence.
Are you retarded? I thought you were the one saying that God exists? You are now telling me I *SHOULDN'T* blame God for existing? I don't remind asking to be born into this piece of shit life.

>>3077444
All modern pagans trace back to Babylon. All of them. Because mankind was concentrated there, after the Flood of Noah, and had all of the same experiences, and then were scattered abroad.

>>3077450

Verifiably wrong.

Get off the history board if you know nothing about history.

>>3077448
Only Christians are Christians.

If your highest and best identity is a Catholic, or an "Orthodox Christian", then you're a lost pagan and practice lawlessness.

It's just the way things are.

>>3077449
Your sin is the only sin not forgiven at the cross.

Unbelief. aka Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

File: heresy_that_special_moment_when.jpg (215KB, 960x960px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 960x960px

>>3077454
begone heretic

>>3077454

All of them are Christians, Cletus.

>>3077449
You should thank God for the life He gave you, yes. and then apologize for the mess you made of it. And then beg Him for mercy and ask Him to save you from the consequences of your sin.

>>3077451
Oh, a "bible isn't a historical record!" historian.

kek

>>3077460
I am proud to be a heretic to pagans.

Very proud indeed.

>>3077469

Oh, a troll.

kek.

>>3077461
Only Christians are Christians. Pierre.

>>3077471

Pride is a sin, enjoy hell.

>>3077474

And they're all Christians, not just your little congregation in Appalachia :^)

>>3077472
People say Tacitus is the greatest of the ancient historians.

Tacitus pales in the face of Luke. Luke is 100% accurate, precise and correct on literally every historical observation he makes. 100%.

>>3077478
Pride does not send men to hell.

Thinking their church membership saves them sends people to hell.

>>3077479

>Luke is 100% accurate

So the other gospels are wrong?

>>3077483

>Thinking their church membership saves them sends people to hell.

Good point, you should probably stop doing that then.

>>3076848
>Unpardonable Sin
>God is omnipotent
>Cannot pardon a specific sin

>>3077483
> implying this is what Catholics and Orthodox churches preach

>>3077491
It might as well be. If you don't belong to *my* church, you're not getting the real teachings of Jesus.

My pastor said so and he's really smart.

>>3077405
>You instantly dismissed it because you do not want to believe the bible contains prophecy
I asked if it was verifiable and without any doubt that the prophecy was not ambiguous or written after the fact and presented as being older.

To which you're attaching a bunch of baggage.

>>3077495
> implying we have pastors
go do research before making yourself look stupid m8

>>3077485
The other gospels don't make hundreds of historical comments. Nor do they put their gospels in chronological order.

>>3077489
Cannot
Will not.

Pick one. Same result.

File: 1461126061693.gif (491KB, 480x250px) Image search: [Google]

491KB, 480x250px

>>3077465
You must be trolling. What you are saying, as I read it:
"I should be thankful for being born into this life, even though it's full of suffering and misery on a scale you couldn't even imagine, I should be thankful because I was born with autism, ADHD, into parents who sexually molested me and tried to kill me, I should be thankful for being poor, full of debt, I should be thankful because through my life I have had deafness, heart problems, a stroke, liver problems, pains in my neck, elbows, back, I should be thankful for being born anemic and with asthma, and all the other things. I should apologize for a mess that I didn't make, and beg Him for forgiveness even though I have never done harm to anyone, I have never hated anyone, always loved everyone, and have always felt guilt for being this utter crap, and have always been humble, or else God will punish me, after all, God, in all his infinite benevolence, created me this way and He knew in all his omniscience that I would kill myself after going through all of this bullshit, and that's why I go to Hell."
Yeah ok. I don't mind it, I have already accepted this is my faith. If solipsism is wrong, I am happy people like you exist. You don't know what life is really about friend.
>>3077457
As I already said, God created this Universe, didn't He? If He is omnipotent and omniscient, then He created me, knowing that I would go through all of this only to doubt him, and then send me to Hell. At least I can die knowing I was the ultimate proof that this world is wretched in unimaginable ways.

If God was truly benevolent, He wouldn't have created any of this. He would have made a planet full of love, peace and happiness, and every time someone sinned, instead of punishing his own creation to eternity in Hell, He would do as a loving parent would do and teach His son the right way, or at least let him follow the path of wrongness on his own.

This is all a giant joke.

>>3077491
If they did, their pews would be empty.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies

Your prophesies are trash.

>>3077495
That is the claim of the Catholic church.

That is the claim of the Orthodox church.

That is the claim of all cults.

It's not a Christian claim; anyone can believe and be saved.

>>3077497
Doesn't matter what you call it, it's wrong.

>>3077498
Luke can't be 100% correct and have the other gospels still be 100% correct.

Choose one, Luke isn't 100% or the others aren't.

Either way you are wrong.

>>3077496
Yes, it is. You can find out when Artaxerxes proclaimed that the Temple could be rebuilt, calculate 483 years of 360 days, and come up with Nisan 10, 32 AD. Palm Sunday.

>>3077514
Which is exactly what Catholics and Orthodox, as Christians, believe.

>>3077514
Why are we talking to >>3077519 this cuck? He obviously doesn't listen to arguments, so the best we can do is pray for his soul.

>>3077506
Yes.

You should thank God for giving you the miracle of life, and the miracle of this planet that sustains your life.

Not sure why you want to have a shitty life, and then an infinitely shittier afterlife, but that's on you.

You make your own choices.

>>3077519
All the gospels harmonize, and the key to it is that not all the gospels are written in chronological order. Only one is, and only one says it is. Luke.

There's no problem with the bible; the problem is you.

>>3077525
Not even close. Both claim you have to be a member of their cult to be saved.

>>3077528
Only one reason, friend. The word of the Lord does not return void. We have no idea who's lurking.

>>3075962
This is why you should follow Islam.

>>3075962
yes. it's called "forgiveness".

>>3077545
just curious, what denomination are you?

>>3077528
Keep burying your head in the sand.

>>3077532
>All the gospels harmonize

They do not.

>>3077536
>Not even close. Both claim you have to be a member of their cult to be saved

Your ignorance is showing. Though it's shown this whole time, frankly.

>>3077551
I don't know what you mean, there are only Christians and non-Christians.

>>3077551
This person answered for me >>3077557

I have to say I agree.

File: 1496700774178.png (89KB, 363x475px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 363x475px

>>3076924
>So nobody from Adam until Jesus's death could be saved, so after death they all went to Hell

>>3077500
>God is all loving
>Will not pardon a specific sin

>>3077556
Why go on the internet and lie?

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

>>3077564
This person is pretending to be me, they're probably a pagan trying to make me sound stupid.

>>3077529
I didn't choose any of the things I mentioned. Everything I said about myself happened before I was even 18. Are you seriously blaming me for being born poor, retarded, into bad parents, sick, etc, it's somehow my fault? And on top of that, wanting out of this will get me eternal suffering in hell?

I am not even going to argue any more over your endless contradictions and flaws in everything you believe in, I just would like to know the answer to those two questions.

>>3077556
>They do not.

Demonstrate that anything in the gospel must necessarily contradict anything in any other gospel.

You know, give an example.

And then I will give you your error.

>>3077576
Nice job only addressing one side.

Christians (Orthodox) do not teach that.

>>3077572

Correct.

God will not force you to believe in Him, or to love Him, or to want to be with Him.

If you want to not believe, to stay apart from him, and not love him, he's prepared a place for you to do just that.

So don't eat your bread and cry.

File: churches.png (75KB, 500x383px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 500x383px

>>3077564
>>3077557

>>3077579
Wanting to get out of this the right way will leave you whole, with a complete identity, with no sickness, with no memory of abuse, in a body that will never suffer pain, sorrow, loss, or death.

I'm trying to get you to see that you want this.

That you want to be saved from all this, and end up with God in heaven forever.

>>3077584
You see a difference; I do not. Two legs on the same statue.

I'm a Jew and the other day my Christian friend sat me down and told me that I have to convert to save my soul. I asked if I can just pretend to believe and he says no I have to truely believe in Jesus dying for our ains and I said sorry buddy I can't,but it confuses me. Why is believing that Jesus died for our sins supposed to be a big important thing? More important than being good?

To Christians I ask unironically: if I had to choose between believing in Jesus and saving a child's life, which would be the greater good?

>>3077578
kek

>>3077571
bosom of abraham was not hell

>>3077597
Belief with God is huge.

Look at Abraham. Abraham believed God, and look what God did for Abraham in return.

Many people pretend to believe, but God reads the hearts of men and nothing we have is secret to Him.

I guess my question to you is, why don't you believe in the Jewish messiah, when thousands of Jews every day believed during the Feast of Pentecost in Jerusalem in 32 AD?

>>3077581

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chronological_contradictions_in_Jesus%27_crucifixion

>>3077596
You don't see a difference because you are too prideful and base your self worth on being special and uniquely saved.

>>3077584
Because of the exclusive claims of the Lord, the Orthodox Church confesses, believes, and proclaims that the only Savior of the world, Jesus Christ, has one Body, His Church. We Orthodox believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and we believe that the Orthodox Church is it. In pluralistic societies such as those of North America and Western Europe today, the claim of the Orthodox Church to be the one and only Church that Jesus founded certainly is not popular, but ultimately it is a necessary outgrowth of the exclusive claims of Jesus; it is simply a testimony to the fact that God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is One and that salvation is bestowed only by and through Him.

I see no difference.

>>3077610
I believe in God myself, or at least I want to. I wasn't raised to believe in Jesus, and the idea of him don't make sense to me when I heard them later in life, so I dont believe.

>>3077621

Nowhere does that say nobody who isn't a member of an "Orthodox" church cannot be saved.

>>3077597
>Why is believing that Jesus died for our sins supposed to be a big important thing? More important than being good?
Because he is a God Incarnate and only through son you will know the father. To say it simple, from orthodox perspective:
Ultimate goal of humans is Theosis
to accomplish Theosis (become like God), you must know God
And you only Know God, through Jesus, as it is said in the scripture.
>To Christians I ask unironically: if I had to choose between believing in Jesus and saving a child's life, which would be the greater good?
I don't know how these two deny each other, but first you must save yourself and then others
Think about this: Humans are immortal and their belief in Jesus shall determine their eternal future. Which is more important in long perspective?

>>3077612
All of the gospels say that Jesus was crucified on Nisan 14, a Thursday.

The confusion lies in people not realizing that the 14th was Passover/crucifixion day, and the 15, Friday, was the Feast of Unleavened Bread that lasted a week.

The Passover is the Preparation Day for the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

The 14th became known among the people as Preparation Day , because during the day they made ready for the great feast day beginning at sundown, after which no work was permitted. Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:31 all identify Preparation Day as the day of the Lord’ s death, while Matt. 27:62 says the day after the crucifixion was the day after Preparation Day. So all four Gospels agree; Jesus died on Preparation day, the 14th of their month Nisan, which is Passover. As evening began the day, He ate the ritual meal with His disciples in the Upper Room, and then was arrested, tried, convicted, and put to death; all on Passover. So just like the Lord had commanded in Exodus 12, our Passover Lamb was selected on the 10th, inspected on the 11th, 12th, and 13th, and executed on the 14th of Nisan.

>>3077631
We Orthodox believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and we believe that the Orthodox Church is it.

>>3077625
Check out the One For Israel videos on youtube. They're the testimony of people exactly like you who stumble upon the truth of the messiah; either Jesus is the messiah, or there is no messiah coming because some of the messianic prophecies are time dependent.

>>3077592
>I'm trying to get you to see that you want this.
You clearly don't understand me. I have always wanted this and I have always known I want this, and yet according to yourself it is my fault that I was born this way, and even if we ignore the fact that free will is bullshit and that God knew how things would turn out but let them happen anyway, I still will go to Hell because I committed both the sin not forgiven at the cross and will commit the sin one cannot repent. I know there is no god at all, people are only born to suffer immensely and then they die meaninglessly, the Universe is cruel and this is not something you can accept let alone understand. But at the very least the one silver side to all of this is I will die proving that even if there is a god, he can be anything, but not forgiving, not loving, and not benevolent. Farewell.

>>3077634
That seems very selfish though. My immortal soul would be more important to me you'd think,but that's selfish and wrong, to place my soul above a child's life, no?
>>3077643
Why do I need a messiah at all? I try to good in life, as well as I can.

>>3077597
Believing in Jesus.

Scenario 1: You save the child from drowning, but die and go to hell. The child grows up and also goes to hell. 2 in hell. This is worst case scenario.

Scenario 2: You believe in Jesus, and the child dies. You both go to heaven, and neither of you goes to hell. This is the best outcome, given your hypothetical.

Scenario 3: You save the child, and the child grows up to accept Jesus, and ends up in heaven, while you end up in hell. 1 saved, 1 lost. This is not an optimal solution.

Scenario 4: Believe in Jesus and save the child. This would be my choice.

>>3077635
They all disagree on the time.

They disagree on what Jesus was clothed in.

There are numerous contradictions that no amount of apologetics will explain.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/paul_carlson/nt_contradictions.html

>>3077638
That doesn't say what you want it to say.

>>3077592
Oh, and a final point.
>end up with God in heaven forever.
I would rather spend eternity in this painful hell than with its mentor and his worshippers.

>>3077650
Why should I go to hell just for not believing? It's not enough to do good?

>>3077646
It does not matter how you were born.

It matters if you are born again, in the Spirit.

John 3
There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If you want to be born again, in the Spirit, do this:

Romans 10
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

>>3077649
>That seems very selfish though. My immortal soul would be more important to me you'd think,but that's selfish and wrong, to place my soul above a child's life, no?
No in salvation of soul, everyone is for himself at the end
If you cant save yourself, you wont save anyone.
And everyone is an egoist at dept, difference is in priorities: Eternal vs Temporary.

>>3077649
Because God's standard for good is perfect, as God the Father, YHWH, is perfect.

Do you match that standard?

>>3077662
>everyone is for himself

But that's the definition of selfish.

>>3077663
I'm not perfect. No one is ,not even God. Doesn't he himself make a mistake in flooding the world,and apologize after? We all make mistakes.

>>3077649
>Why do I need a messiah at all? I try to good in life, as well as I can.
Final destination is to be with God for eternity
If you wont believe God and acknowledge him, be as good as you want, it wont bring you to source of eternal joy (God) and will be in vain.

>>3077653
No, they don't. And linking nonsense from satanic websites isn't exactly the best way to produce examples.

If Jesus was crucified at 9 am and was on the cross until 3 pm, then yes, he was being crucified at noon as well.

It is that kind of sheer idiocy that claims the stories contradict each other.

Roman church: We're the one true and only body of Christ!
Orthodox church: We're the one true and only body of Christ!

Yeah, huge difference.

>>3077673

Yes, they do.

>nonsense

It's all straight from the bible, so now you're calling your own book nonsense.

>>3077656
Get some practice in by jumping into a live volcano, then, I suppose. Except that in hell you never die, and the volcano never goes dormant.

Because a lake of fire is pretty much what's inside a volcano.

Since God has prepared a place for you according to your wishes, you might want to thank him, you know, out of courtesy.

>>3077658
Because your good deeds are as filthy rags, if you read your prophets.

Not believing in God is a problem. I'm sorry you don't see it's a problem. But even solving that problem only gets you to where the devil is, because the devil knows there's a God.

You have to have the son, Yehoshua, the Messiah, because if you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father.

but if you do have the Son, you also have the Father.

>>3077667
>But that's the definition of selfish.
Nope, just reality.
>Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. (psalm 146:3)
>I'm not perfect. No one is ,not even God.
God is by nature a perfect being. And Genesis is largely poetic and trying to describe events to be understandable to man.

>>3077667
God is perfect. He did not make a mistake; He was exceedingly sorrowful that He had to drown His creation.

God has emotions; that does not make God imperfect.

If Michelangelo had to reduce the David to rubble, I'm sure he too would feel exceedingly sorrowful.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies#Wrong_prophecies

Reminder that biblical prophesies are overwhelmingly wrong and that appealing to them constitutes an automatic admission of believing lies.

>>3077679
You have failed to point out a single conflict in the gospel; your claim that the gospels contradict each other is therefore false.

(Satan knows the scriptures too, genius.)

>>3077670
I believe in God but I don't believe in Jesus. It's not a matter of choosing, I just don't believe. I can lie to myself and to Him and pretend I do, But I still won't. According to you my soul is fucked forever, even though I do good.. That isn't good. Forever hell to a good person is not something a Good God would do.
>>3077690
But I don't! Does this mean all the Japanese people are going to hell, because they're not Christians? What about little Islam babies who know nothing but Allah? Those who died in battle protecting their families, but were pagan? All suffer in hell forever? Its not right.

>>3077704

If you bothered to look at the source, you'd see that there is plenty of conflict.

Your claim that they do not is therefore false.

>>3077703
Daily Reminder that satan and his children do nothing but lie.

This isn't a puzzle.

You're in a room where one guy always tells the truth (God) and one guy always lies (the devil).

And you choose to believe the devil.

>>3077706
God judges people individually by reading their hearts, and God makes good decisions.

All dead children go to be with the Lord.

Death in battle is nothing but the cessation of physical life.

Everything God does is holy, just and righteous.

>>3077710

You have yet to show a single, indisputably true prophesy.

I have shown many that were false.

You lose.

>>3077706
I told you the reason of that. Heaven and Hell are states of soul, not garden or big caudron. This state of soul is about unity with God/relations with God. And Jesus is THE God, to whom you must believe to have this proper relation.

>>3077708
Cite one. I've already cited the answer for the usual nonsense, that Jesus was crucified on a Friday.

>>3077718
Daniel's 70 week prophecy is true.
Ezekiel's Dry Bones prophecy is true.

So you lie again.

>>3077717
Is it holy to condemn good people to hell because they don't believe that Jesus Chriat died for their sins?
>>3077720
If God is good then how would doing good not link you close to him? I'm certainly closer to God than Satan! I don't even believe in Satan! I only believe that there is one God and we are all his children and he wants us to do good on Earth and be kind and help others. Why is this such a bad thing that it sends me to hell?

>>3077723

You have not proven they were legitimate and not just written after the fact.

Meanwhile, as to prophecies that failed to come true.
Go through the source, you'll find plenty.

>>3077725

>Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Tyre

Didn't happen

>Egypt would be a barren wasteland

Didn't happen

>The Nile will dry up

Didn't happen

>Israel will extend from the Red Sea to the Euphrates

Didn't happen

>Israel will live in peace with its neighbors

LMAO

>Davidic line will endure forever

Nope

>>3077706
>>3077720
I dont know, how will it turn out, but you can go on /christian/ on eightchan board and open thread for your questions. Those guys will have better answers I think

File: StationaryStatesAnimation.gif (223KB, 300x280px) Image search: [Google]

223KB, 300x280px

>>3077659
>If you want to be born again, in the Spirit, do this:
Wait, what. What I meant by being reborn is literally reincarnation, but preferably keeping my own memories. And I don't mean just reincarnating in a time after I die, but rather in the past, like in the 80s or 90s, without altering this timeline.

I know it would take literal god like powers to atomically reanimate a dead brain, put it into a new body, surpass the speed of light, arrive at a precise point of time, and hardest of all, maintain quantum steering through time in a way the Universe does not diverge from its original timeline.

I think you are talking about being reborn in a spiritual sense, but there are many things I love about Earth (hence what I was talking about having dreams I know will never come true despite them being so simple in their fundamental nature).

How can I die and get this dream from God? That is, dying, going through whatever, and at one point waking up with the main memories of this life into the mid 90s into a healthy body of a first world person with loving and accepting parents as well as decent wealth, in a way this timeline is the exact same as I know it without even the smallest differences?

>>3077746
These answers are fine but they really do upset me. Do these people think so little of God? That they think he's a narcissist and sends good people to hell? They don't think an omnipotent being has the power to send his good children to heaven?

>>3077737
No one sends you to hell, its a state of soul, as I said.
Of course it is nice, that you do good deeds, but only through Son (Jesus) we know the Father, thats the point and only through faith in Christ you will know God.

>>3077737
There are no good people. None. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and the wages of sin is death.

Death is separation from God, forever.

Also, the 70 weeks prophecy is just not referring to what you claim it is.

>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies#Daniel.27s_Seventy_Weeks_Prophecy

>>3077742
I did, because I showed how it was translated @ 125 BC and predicted events that happened in 32 AD.

Do you understand timelines? At all?

>>3077759

See >>3077758

Doesn't matter, your lies don't fool anyone with half a brain.

>>3077751
>That they think he's a narcissist and sends good people to hell?
Everyone sends himself to hell, man is responsible for his actions.
>Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (luke 17:21)
>They don't think an omnipotent being has the power to send his good children to heaven?
Children are pure and wont go to hell

>>3077755
>Death is seperation from God forever

Huh? Then what's the point of anything if we're gonna be separated anyways?
>>3077754
But why? Why can I only know God through Jesus? I pray to him, does he not hear? Does he not care? If I'm his child then I'd think he listens. Il like to think he does. What makes you so sure that I have to believe in Jesus

>>3077742
>>Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Tyre
It actually says many kings, not just him, and it says that Tyre will never be rebuilt. Tyre was never rebuilt. They buried Tyre, and later rebuilt a city upon the buried ruins called Tyre.

>>Egypt would be a barren wasteland
Happens in the 1000 year kingdom.

>>The Nile will dry up
Happens in the 1000 year kingdom.

>>Israel will extend from the Red Sea to the Euphrates
Happens in the 1000 year Kingdom (Greater Israel is already a movement)(Google it)
>>Israel will live in peace with its neighbors
Happens in the 1000 year Kingdom.
>>Davidic line will endure forever
As Jesus sits on the throne of David, forever, yes, this too will happen in the future.

See, prophecies are about the FUTURE.

So pointing out prophecies that have not happened yet does not DISPROVE the prophecy; it only means that it will happen when it is due. When it is ripe.

>>3077767
Well now you're just not making sense. Please clarify for me if I am correct in the following statement:

Everyone who isn't a child and doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell.

>>3077768
>Why can I only know God through Jesus?
uhm...Because Jesus is God? During entire time of God-Human relations, God is always the Son, both in old and new testament
>"I and father are one" (John 10:30)
Now we know God, as he became man, only God.

>>3077777
Yes. There are some exceptions in terms of virtuous pagans theory, but they are rare occasions.

>>3077777
also, your quints confirm it :^)

>>3077787
>Yes
Even adults with severe psychological problems (for example, retards)?

>>3076848
>your sins are foregiven
>except they're not

>>3077782
If Jesus is God, why can't I talk to the God I believe in (the father part)? That's not enough for him? Why does God care if I call him Jesus or Yaweh or Hashem or Jehudah,so long as I love him?
>>3077787
And you think that's a good and holy thing? That people can do good all their life and still suffer forever because they never prayed to Jesus?
>>3077789
my first quints,maybe it's a sign

>>3077790
We are talking about persons, who are capable of sin. retards and mentally defunct people, technically, cannot sin, for they cant think of themselves and their rationality is limited.

File: 628b58c694bd253a1124ba838c8b92ce.gif (1MB, 381x216px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 381x216px

>>3077597
nothing you will physically do is very "good". people tend to take some part of morality as granted but if you think about it a bit more deeply it all devolves into retarded sophistry shit. imagine for example that saving that kid through some contrived circumstances gets a million people killed later. now apply the reasoning to the relationship of your action and everything that happens after it anywhere. you can't tell if it's good. this is not even nearly the only objection that can be made; no truly convincing argument can even prove that life is better than death. we assume it, but it's not as if we can truly follow the reasoning to some kind of an absolute.

paraphrasing the deal of jesus goes something like this: being god he knows what is right. he came down to earth and told us the right thing to do is believing that he will deal with it. this might be argued to have some utility like not hypocritically believing ourselves to be the only virtuous ones or something but basically we don't know why it's right, and being only mortal chumps we shouldn't necessarily assume to be able to. it's just what we believe we were told to do.

>>3077773

>Rebuild the city
>They didn't actually rebuild it

Lmao

>Happens in the 1000 year kingdom.

Nah, they were specifically referring to the Egypt of the time.

Wrong on every count.

>As Jesus sits on the throne of David, forever, yes, this too will happen in the future.

Jesus has nothing to do with David.

>didn't conquer Assyria ( Isaiah 11:1-12 and Micah 5:5-6 necessitate this )

>2 Samuel 7:12-16 is explicit that the son of David, who would be one of David's biological offspring, would establish his unending kingdom.

Jesus is not David's biological offspring in any sense.

>the son of David Biblically must be David's biological son -- adoption doesn't count. The author is pushing three separate "fulfillments" -- Solomon as biological successor, Jesus as nonbiological but "spiritual" successor, and Jesus as biological successor. None can be true at the same time.

Your prophesies are wrong no matter how any mental gymnastics and cop outs you try.

Deal with it.

>>3077747
Yes, you will still be you in the afterlife regardless of your beliefs, but you will never be reincarnated.

Reincarnation is a lie.

>>3077747
Please answer this, the last paragraph precisely.
>>3077787
And what exactly counts as "believing in Jesus"? Is genuinely accepting He has at least existed, died in the cross and probably resurrecting enough?

>>3077800
Isn't it good to follow the ten commandments? I am a mortal chump, but God isn't. He should be able to judge everyone soul himself to see if they are good at heart. This feels like a government checklist,
>Is he a kid
>Does he believe in Jesus

Oh man we can't put him through.

You're also wrong about saying it wasn't just Nebby.

"For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people. He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee. And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers. By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach. With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground. And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water. And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard. And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD."

Admit you're wrong whenever you're ready,

>>3077764
Maybe one day you'll have half a brain. Until then, I recommend you stay off of satanic sites.

>>3077804
Oh fuck. Then how can the afterlife be peaceful? If I want nothing but my desire, can't that be the afterlife? Why can't God just give me a second chance?

>>3077768
Because the other choice is to live with God forever.

>>3076899
How about depression? God created the mind which also means he created depression. Depression leads to suicide. How can God be fucking mad at people for killing themselves when he created a mental illness that makes people WANT to kill themselves???!!

>>3077810

I recommend reading your own book to see how full of shit you are.

>>3077792
Well, I posted two key phrases, that are answer to this question I think:
>"I and father are one" (John 10:30)
>All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (Matthew 11:27)

>And you think that's a good and holy thing? That people can do good all their life and still suffer forever because they never prayed to Jesus?
Salvation is not currency conversation center, where good deeds=salvation rate will be.
Perhaps I'm bad at stating and clarifying my opinions (which is my problem, I have to admit)
Any who, review these articles, perhaps this will clarify better.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_hell#Basic_Orthodox_teachings_on_hell
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinization_(Christian)
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis_(Eastern_Christian_theology)

>>3077814
And I won't be with God forever because I pray to God and not Jesus. Is that right?

>>3077777
>Everyone who isn't a child and doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell.

check'd

No, that's not correct. Jesus said that if people believed Moses and the prophets, then they were believing in Jesus. That's just one group of people who were not children, did not know Jesus by name, yet who are in heaven now after spending a stint in Paradise, aka the Bosom of Abraham.

>>3075962

I always thought Jesus died for our sins up till that point, since we didn't have Christianity back then, he restarted the Sin counter back to zero.

>>3077791
All of your sins that could be forgiven, are forgiven.

The sin you're committing right now, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, will not be forgiven ever, in this life or in the next.

You have 1 rule to follow, a 1 question test.

And you're doing poorly.

>>3077792
1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

>>3077806
>And what exactly counts as "believing in Jesus"? Is genuinely accepting He has at least existed, died in the cross and probably resurrecting enough?
You mus believe that he was THE Christ, The God incarnate, born from a virgin, who sacrificed himself to mankind and bodily resurrected.
Believing in just a dude Jesus, who died on a cross, is like believing in a Jesus, the mexican taco chef in terms of salvation.
Basically, what is written in Nicene creed:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made:

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man;

And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;

And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;

And ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;

And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke by the Prophets;

And we believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.

We look for the Resurrection of the dead,

And the Life of the age to come. Amen.

>>3077807
He's saying we can't know for a fact that it's good or not, we just have to trust that it's good because god says so. That's the entire concept of faith: believing without knowing.

>>3077832
So if my complex human intellect (that according to the Bible only exists because of the tree of knowledge of good and evil) questions the mere existence of this being that in itself is completely counter intuitive, I will go to Hell, even if I do that just once and for the rest of my life live as a holy priest?

>>3077801
They did not rebuilt Tyre. It was completely destroyed, and buried.

As to the rest, you're just like the Jews who rejected their messiah and murdered him, and then complained that the Kingdom Age prophecies weren't fulfilled by the rejected and murdered messiah.

Exactly like them.

>>3077806
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom. 10:9)

>>3077843
No, Blasphemy of holy spirit is state of rejection of God and dying in this way.
also
>that according to the Bible only exists because of the tree of knowledge of good and evil
thats false

>>3077839
*rips huge fart in ur face
believe in that

>>3077845

Nebby didn't even destroy it, and we've shown how you don't know what you're talking about since it very clearly says Neb will destroy Tyre (and he didn't).

>Get proven wrong
>DA JOOS

Typical.

>>3077840
I believe in God without knowing. I do not believe in Jesus without knowing, simply because I wasn't raised to. I look inwards and simply I do not believe.

Is a God that will not accept his children that worship him under different names into his arms a good father? Someone who deserves worship?
>>3077823
You seem to be the only one saying this.
>>3077836
But why? I still love God, I just think He has one form, not three.

>>3077808
Ezekiel 26
“Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and will cause

many nations

to come up against you, as the sea causes its waves to come up. And

they

shall destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers; I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

>>3077812
Because the transformation process begun on earth is finished in heaven, when we are in the likeness of Jesus Christ Himself, and glorified.

We will not be there what we are here; we will be far superior.

>>3077839
This is so retarded and boring.

>>3077821
Jesus is God. If you don't have Jesus, you don't have God.

>>3077831
Nope. Past, present and future sins of all humanity for all time.

Ok, I have to go now, lads. God bless you all.

as for you >>3077856
mind what i I said, on /christian/ board on infinitychan, if you are really interested. we would be happy to answer your questions. :)
Lehitraot

>>3077840
faith is belief without seeing, not belief without knowing

>>3077861

http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/26-7.htm

Every single translation other than yours specifies Nebby.

You're not weaseling your way out of this with a special snowflake translation. Take your lies elsewhere.

>>3077843
You can question it all you'd like.

It's where you end up in the process that matters.

And then you can question it some more.

Not sure where this whole "you can't ask questions" thing came from. Gonna guess satan.

>>3077866
But God Is also God. Why does it matter?
>>3077868
להתראות חבר

>>3077852
Again, you cited the wrong passage. >>3077861

>>3077856
>I just think He has one form, not three.

And this is based on.....(also, modality is basically a heresy)

>>3077877

No, I did not >>3077871

File: scumbag god.jpg (263KB, 780x1925px) Image search: [Google]

263KB, 780x1925px

>>3077864
>>3077848
>>3077875
Then my bed is made.
I really just wanted a second chance, to me being forcefully taken to Heaven is as good as being forcefully taken to Hell because in either case I won't have anything I want.

>>3077845
your cop outs are the jewiest fucking shit ive ever read nibba, are you kidding?

>>3077871
Study Bible
A Prophecy against Tyre
…2"Son of man, because Tyre has said concerning Jerusalem, 'Aha, the gateway of the peoples is broken; it has opened to me. I shall be filled, now that she is laid waste,' 3therefore thus says the Lord GOD, 'Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up its waves. 4'They will destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers; and I will scrape her debris from her and make her a bare rock.…
http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/26-3.htm

You can't tell a 3 from a 7, is all.

>>3077832
So if I question God, the God who created my curiosity....Then I get punished? How he fuck does that make any sense? That's like raising a kid to believe that butt fucking goats is acceptable, but when you see him fucking a goat OH BOY THATS NOT OKAY IM DISOWNING YOU

>>3077878
This is based on growing up in Israel surrounded by Jews, who only believe in one God with one form. Why would I think any different? How does God expect me to know which is correct and which isn't?

>>3077870
did you mean to say the same thing twice?

>>3077876
Do you know your neighbor?
Yes!
Did you know your neighbor had a son?
No....

How well do you know your neighbor?

>>3077880
As long as you are convinced in your heart that your decision to be in the dark, alone, and on fire forever, and that this brief life you led was the highlight of your existence, is a good one.

>>3077888

Oh no, you don't just get to ignore 7 because it proves you wrong. You don't get to pick and choose, it's all right or none of it is.

You just don't mind being a liar is all.

>>3077892
he doesn't expect you to know, he asks that you believe.

>>3077881
It was often attacked by Egypt, besieged by Shalmaneser V, who was assisted by the Phoenicians of the mainland, for five years, and by Nebuchadnezzar (586–573 BC). Ezekiel 26:12–14 states that God caused Nebuchadnezzar to destroy Tyre because its residents gloated over the fall of Jerusalem. The Tyrians held off Nebuchadnezzar's siege for thirteen years, resupplying the walled island city through its two harbours. Later, a king of Cyprus took Tyre using his fleet in the 370s BC, "a remarkable success about which little is known," according to historian Robin Lane Fox.

In 332 BC, the city was conquered by Alexander the Great, after a siege of seven months in which he built the causeway from the mainland to within a hundred meters of the island, where the sea floor sloped abruptly downwards. Tyre continued to maintain much of its commercial importance until the Christian era. The presence of the causeway affected water currents nearby, causing sediment to build up, making the connection permanent.

Alexander used the remains of the old city to build the causeway from the mainland to the island where the new Tyre was located.

In 315 BC, Alexander's former general Antigonus began his own siege of Tyre, taking the city a year later.

>>3077895
You don't need to know about the son to have a relationship with the neighbor though, I'd say.

>>3077889
No.

If you call the Holy Spirit of God a liar, the devil, if you commit that blasphemy, then you are punished and rightfully so.

You keep thinking people deserve to go to heaven.

Everyone deserves to go to hell. Do you really want what you deserve?

>>3077892
By studying Isaiah 53.

>>3077893
Everyone has faith, and everyone uses faith. It's merely the ability to believe what you have not seen. You can believe in the existence of black holes, but you will never see one. You believe in their existence by faith.

>>3077902
It's not wrong. As I said above, it is a collection of people, including Nebuchadnezzar, that eventually destroy Tyre.

And Tyre is never rebuilt. >>3077908

>>3077908

>The Tyrians held off Nebuchadnezzar's siege for thirteen years, resupplying the walled island city through its two harbours. Later, a king of Cyprus took Tyre using his fleet in the 370s BC, "a remarkable success about which little is known," according to historian Robin Lane Fox.

Yet God supposedly said Nebuchadnezzar, not Alexander, would destroy the city...hmmm....

>>3077909
How close would that relationship be, do you think? Close enough to be adopted into his family?

>>3077923
Again, many kings. They. >>3077861

>>3077905
I want to believe! I really do, and I believe in him God, but I just don't believe in Jesus. Its not a choice I'm making, I just don't! It'd be a life to say otherwise. I want him to love me and to accept me anyways, why won't he?! It's not fair.
>>3077916
If I asked you to believe that there is a monster lurking under your bed, would you? I believe in God and that he's good and allpowerful,but no matter how I try to view it I fond the concept of a virgin birth and someone dying cleansing ALL sins to be silly!
>>3077924
If I'm already the neighbors son, I wouldn't need to be adopted. And we are all God's children I thought.

>>3077922

No, it is specifically Nebuchadnezzar who would destroy it. That is Ezekiel 26:7 onward, he never did, the prophecy is wrong.

>>3077926

Again, Nebby specifically >>3077808

You do not get to ignore this.

>>3075962

Yes, so long as you take Jesus into your heart immediately before dying.

>>3077927
>And we are all God's children I thought.
yes, but nonchristians basically reject this birthright

>>3077911
I'm not calling him a liar, I'm questioning his logic. Also thinking people go to heaven? the fuck does that mean?

>>3077840
>That's the entire concept of faith: believing without knowing.
yup, though also it makes more sense to solve the is-ought problem through an all-capable god than human reasoning when we can reason it to be quite unapproachable for us.

>>3077856
>Is a God that will not accept his children that worship him under different names into his arms a good father? Someone who deserves worship?
I don't know this stuff, but questioning the character of god is definitely a logical impossibility. I think you're using this as rhetoric to get at the theology, to which I say: I don't really know how your theology goes. maybe it's good, and maybe it's not. I don't know.

>>3077927
If I tell you that there is a God living in the third heaven, how would you check to see if He's there?

He already proved that He loved you by taking all of your sins onto Himself and paying the death penalty for all of them. Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for another.

As to being accepted, if you turn to Jesus He will in no wise turn you away.

As to meaning and purpose, those can only be found in Him. Your lifetime of traditions and rites and rituals will never satisfy those needs.

Yes, but you're not Jesus, are you. So if you want to be in the family of God, you have to be adopted in.

>>3077927
>>3077933
basically see Parable of the Prodigal Son

>>3077933
But I was born into Judaism. I didn't choose to give anything up, it's just luck of the draw.
>>3077939
>I think you're using this as rhetoric to get at the theology

I Just don't want God to reject me and I don't want to go to hell.
>>3077942
But I don't believe He took my sins! Is a child rapist gonna be covered because he believes in Jesus?
If I die to save another's life but I'm still a Jew and nor a Christian, am I going to hell? I would be doing what Jesus did, one life for another.

>>3077928
I'm not ignoring anything.

You're ignoring Ezekiel 28, just like you ignored Ezekiel 26:3

‘Therefore thus says the Lord God:

“Because you have set your heart as the heart of a god,
Behold, therefore, I will bring

strangers

against you,

The most terrible of the nations;

And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom,
And defile your splendor.

They

shall throw you down into the Pit,
And you shall die the death of the slain
In the midst of the seas.

>>3077916
even if you saw a black hole, how would you know that is what it was. how would your sight let you know that for a fact? if you saw the devil as a prophet, does that make the devil a prophet? or would you give me some sort of cop out excuse as to how you 'didn't really' see him? do you believe your sight can't be deceived?

seeing is just a physical sense that can be in error. knowledge by its very definition precludes error. only through faith can you gain the knowledge of god. therefore faith comes before knowledge.

>>3077938
The Holy Spirit has told you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

If you say that Jesus is not the Christ, and not the Son of the living God, you are calling the Holy Spirit a liar. By calling God a liar, you say he does the work of the devil, which is the unpardonable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

You are going to ask me when the Holy Spirit told you this. I do not know the day.

I do know that you did not agree with Him.

>>3077950
>But I was born into Judaism.
you choose your belief and have the opportunity of conversation. its not a caste system or something.

>>3077950
All sins were forgiven at the cross.

Passover is a shadow of what Jesus did as the perfect Lamb of God.

Humanity put its hand on Jesus' head, our sins transferred into the sinless Son of God, and His righteousness flows into us.

When we believe.

>>3077950
Another thing; he took your sins upon Himself.

That does not mean He removed your sins from your consciousness, or that you never sinned, or never again will sin.

It means all of your sins were already paid for, at the cross.

Knowing you're imperfect, knowing that you cannot keep God's Law, is intended to cause you to despair, and in your despair, to throw yourself at the mercy of God and beg him for forgiveness.

That's when you are born again, and receive a new life. An eternal life. A life where you will live with Moses, with Abraham, with David, with all of the people you've read about all your life.

>>3077958
I'm merely trying to explain to you what faith is. It's not a religious concept. It's a human ability.

You rely on it every day.

Every statement you make about the future is made on faith, as you cannot see the future.

>>3077964
But I believe what I believe because how the environment I was raised in. If I was raised a Christian I'd be going to heaven right now! It's not like I don't want to believe in Jesus, I simply don't believe in him!
>>3077967
I don't want to worship a fucked up God so narcissist that he'll let in devout rapists and won't let in good people who believe in different things.

I want my Jewish God who punishes evil and loves all his children.
>>3077971
He does all that for me, but unless I go "oh sure you're real Jesus" he won't let me go party with Moses. Sounds fucked up to me. It's not about being good at all! It's just about believing. No wonder people like this religion, you can do what you want and then cry to Jesus. I'm legitimately very upset now.

>>3077980
There. are. no. good. people.

You keep saying "good people" like they exist. It's nonsense. Only God is good.

Do you know anyone like God?

How are you any better than a rapist? Have you not also broken all of the commandments of God?

God does punish evil, and God does love His children.

You are now evil, and not one of His children.

I'm going to say that again. You are now evil, and not one of His children.

The way for you to become one of His children has been stated herein many times, and is codified in Romans 10:9-13.

Yes. If you do not believe Jesus is Who He says He is, you will never meet Moses.

>>3077928

I was hoping you had some integrity.

I guess that's not the case.

>>3077990
I'm better than a rapist because I try to do what God has told us is good. I don't want to hurt others,and God knows that,that is good.

Sorry but if a rapist isn't evil and a non believer is, your religion is bullshit and I'm happy being a Jew and being in Israel surrounded by non autists.

Are you just an asshole that uses subjective morality and original sin as tools to be a jerk?? That's what the whome religion comes off as. I'm not evil and God knows.

>>3078002
The rapist practices lawlessness.
You practice lawlessness.

You are trying to convince God that you are better than the rapist, but the standard is to be perfect, as YHWH in heaven is perfect.

Who cares if you're better than the rapist, but you? You, reeking with self-righteous religious hypocrisy?

>>3077996

The only one here lacking integrity is you.

>>3078009
God cares about his children being good. No one is perfect.

This sounds like someone saw Judaism and said "Hey how can we manipulate this so we're allowed to be bad people ".

And then later Protestantism took it a step further, now you can he a cunt and you don't even have to leave the home!

>>3078011
I've proven everything I said was correct from the source I said it came from.

My integrity is just fine, thanks.

>>3078002
>uses subjective morality

This is literally what you are doing by saying you are a good person, and better than a rapist. Textbook.

I have consistently put forth the same objective morality: be perfect, as the Father in heaven is perfect.

>>3078018
Jesus is God.

Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Have you kept all of the commandments perfectly, every single day, all your life?

>>3077521
>Yes, it is.
Prove it

>>3078027
I'm using objective morality set out by our God.
>>3078032
Nope, but I try to. In my heart I try my best to and I want to follow them. If that's not enough then its not enough, but don't sit here and tell me that simply by believing in a person, none of the commandment stuff matters.

No wonder Christianity fucking exploded. Literally don't do anything and get paradise forever. Even if you're a rapist. Even If you're Hitler.

>>3078018

Judaism is actually the system bad people manipulate to do evil. Do evil, kill a goat. Do more evil, kill an ox. Do horrendous evil, kill 7 oxen.

Swear an oath, break it, and claim the oath was not made on God, but on the temple.

Pharisaical Judaism made men insane; insane enough to lay hands on their own God and conspire to murder Him.

>>3078035
Also, the key to unlocking Daniel’s prophecy was discovered by Sir Robert Anderson, working in partnership with the London Royal Observatory. They concluded that God was using His original 360 day calendar in giving this prophecy to Daniel, so you have to convert our calendar of 365.25 days to His in making the calculations. You’ll find that 483 years on God’s calendar is only 476 years on ours. And remember, there is no year zero when moving from BC to AD. 483 years of 360 days each from 445 BC brings us to the first Palm Sunday.

Jesus confirmed the validity of Daniel’s prophecy when He rode into Jerusalem that day. Prophesying the coming destruction of Jerusalem, He said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace–but now it is hidden from your eyes. The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

>>3078040
Yes, to be as God the Father, perfect.

Are you as God the Father, perfect in all your ways?

>>3078055
According to Sir Robert Anderson and the London Royal Observatory the decree of Artaxerxes was dated March 14, 445 and began the 483 year countdown to the Lord’s appearance in Jerusalem on the first Palm Sunday.

>>3077529
>I don't know why you chose to live in a 3rd world shithole full of secret police and public beheadings, but hey, those are like, your choices man

>I don't know why you chose to have a psychotic parent that literally chained you up and tortured you and mangled some body parts for a couple of decades, but hey, those are like, your choices man

>I don't know why you chose to live on a planet with plate tectonics and that earthquake killed your whole family except for your daughter whose a paraplegic now but hey, those are like, your choices man

>I don't know why you took a left today instead of a right and ran into a high mugger who took your fumbling with the wallet as resistance and chose to shoit you and leave your child an orphan since your wife passed a few years ago from cancer after a lengthy painful battle but hey, those are like, your choices man


>ur a cunt for choosing to see this as a negative

>>3078081
Only one choice in life that you make has eternal ramifications.

Is Jesus your risen Savior and Lord, or no?

>>3078086
That choice is influenced by many circumstances and I find it curious how you at no point acknowledged that all those scenarios were quite divorced from choice in a general sense.

>>3076848
Prove it

>>3075962
If you're repenting simply on the basis that you knew you could artificially repent after doing whatever you wanted, you're not sincerely repenting and God knows you are not. You are just trying to cheat your own soul even though you're still a piece of shit.

Now in THEORY you could do almost anything and repent for your sins if you were sincere and actually changed your life. However such an extreme scenario with a DRASTIC shift in behavior, beliefs, and actions is so rare it's hardly worth bringing up except when you want to talk shit on Christianity.