Why do people still believe that communism can work?

Well it's not like we've tried it yet

File: soviet celebration at reichstag.jpg (482KB, 2110x1350px) Image search: [Google]

482KB, 2110x1350px

>>3073434

Well it works well enough to defeat autism.

It forcibly brought russia and china into the 20th century
More important than survival is the creation of irreversible political states of affairs. It's ok for ones empire to crumble ignominiously, so long as most of europe ends up switching to the metric system afterwards.

>>3073434
Same reason people still believe that fascism can work

>>3073478
>It forcibly brought russia and china into the 20th century

no it didnt asshate. Maoism was such a gigantic failure that only a complete retard would praise it. Its literally worse than stormfags in terms of delusion

>>3073434

They don't. They're lying to you.

Capitalism produces winners and losers. The losers hate capitalism and promote communism, where they can be on top and steal from everyone else.

Communists are liars, thieves and murderers.

>>3073649

Fascism has worked in one sense or another for centuries and centuries and produced some of the finest cultures and civilisations we've ever seen.

Communism didn't even make it 90 years, caused the deaths of upwards of 100 million people and did not produce anything of value.

>>3073831
t. doesn't know what Fascism is

>>3073831
>lost the only war they ever fought
>whole movement thorughly dead in twenty years
>"centuries and centuries"
this triggers the fash

>>3073434
Because they are lazy/stupid. Communism claims to be the ideology of the laborer because the average laborer isn't useful as anything other than just that, even if they want redistributed wealth. Anyone who knows themselves to be hardworking/intelligent will favor free markets.

The appeal of a planned society for the social class that would provide most planners, the intelligentsia, is irresistible.

>>3073434
It works in small tribes or villages but its impossible in civilization since its built on gibs.

>>3073478
Communism made China a shithole that wasn't fixed till it started adopting capitalist policies.

>>3073831
>did not produce anything of value
That's demonstrably false.

>>3073478
The fact that communism only pops up in feudal shitholes but not 1st world capitalist countries where people live great lives is proof we don't need it.

>>3073434
Because communism is a socio-economic theory that capitalism will eventually create a post scarcity environment in which competition is no longer necessary as the driving force of the market and the advancement of technology will eventually make it as such that even the common man can produce most of the items he needs effortlessly. If you'd read even a bit of Marx you know that communism is not an alternative to capitalism, it's the theorized end product.

The real question is why do people conflate Maoism and Leninism with Communism and feel like they can discuss a subject which they clearly lack an understanding of?

>>3074274
Most advancements in society, technology and living standards come from capitalist countries. If capitalism is such a failure why are the rare communist shitholes still around after the Cold War switching to it?

>>3074286
I'm not disputing the efficacy of capitalism. The idea that the USSR "not producing anything of value" is overtly wrong.

>>3073478
It only worked when they hashed up their own version,such as when Stalin took up Trotsky plan and Xiaoping said fuck it and only applied communism to only politics

>>3074284
If we ever reach post scarcity it will probably be some Star Trek bernietopia. A stateless society is impossible to ever accomplish past 3000 BC and even before then there were hierarchies.

>>3074221
>Anyone who knows themselves to be hardworking/intelligent will favor free markets
No, they'd favour an oligarchy where they can fuck over any competitor

>>3074331
Really that's just capitalism taken to the extreme. Even Greenspan has acknowledged that the market's ability to self-regulate is a meme.

>>3073453
>commies killing other commies


I mean as great as that is you're still wrong.

>>3073730
>asshate

>>3073434
What am I seeing here

>>3074422
>Nazis
>commies
retard

Unironically because it wasn't real communism. You can call it whatever you want but it's not how the vast majority of commies want to organize society so its failure is irrelevant to them.

>>3076028
Does it matter? Underneath all the labels, what was the actual difference between the two? Nazis and Soviets were both led by power-hungry dictators.

>>3073871
I'm assuming he's on about Rome, and presidential dictatorships like Napoleon and Pedro.

>>3075999
normal communist foodstand

>>3074277
>Communal peasants
>Feudal

>>3074284
>The real question is why do people conflate Maoism and Leninism with Communism and feel like they can discuss a subject which they clearly lack an understanding of?
Because those two and their followers said they were Communists, as did their Western non-Communist liberal fellow-travelers?

Of course, after total defeat (fall of the Union), it's necessary to change the standards, and thus, No True Scotsman.

>>3073434
Mostly: "never tried" and "when everyone convert to my own special snowflake brand of socialism/communism all the problems of the world will go away".

Source: /leftypol/

>>3074291
So, what have they produced?

They somehow improved German rockets and they made Tetris.
Anything else?

Because Marx is one of the most influential philosophers, economists and intelectuals of the modern age who noticed the flaws of capitalism which are yet to be disproven (the Austrian meme school of economics doesn't count), so naturally people will try to get his ideas in practice, despite all the failings.
>Inb4 I have never read Marx but I hate him so much, he was a juuuu xDxdxdxd

>>3076743
No one pretend the shareholders lend money to a company for free not that the big bosses don't pay themselves too much money, but they just milk 10 to 30% of the value workers produce, not 90 or 95% like commies sometime pretend.

We still have to find an economical system using the will of the people to improve their life as a motivation for hardwork and without bosses. The closest thing we get from that are small capitalist company owned by the workers, but because the workers don't feel a need to make the company grow, it is doomed to stay marginal.

File: Lê Trọng Tấn.jpg (15KB, 200x270px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 200x270px

>>3076726
Is this bait?

>>3073434
The have to believe in something.

>>3076062
It's almost as if the real murderer is authoritarianism, and any dictatorship, be that of a man, mob, or proletariat

>>3073434
>my utopia is better than your utopia!
>nuh uh, my utopia defeated your utopia in the 40s!
>yeah, but your utopia couldn't distribute bread properly!!

Fucking ideologists and their warmongering and revolutions.
Just do what works. Small steps wherever the stats lead.

>>3076670
Except it doesn't change the standards and calling something communism doesn't make it so.

Marx's theory of communism and what developed in Russia, China, etc. are very, very different. Marx's model was very specifically built for Western Europe.

This is why the terms Leninism and Maoism are used to describe their respective movements. They were inspired by Marx and used a lot of Marx's rhetoric to define their own movements but they are very distinctly seperate from communism.

>>3076743
>Hey look at me, I'm a fucking retard!

>>3073434
A communist uploaded this video a few hours go, incidentally:
https://youtu.be/QnIsdVaCnUE

>>3076892
Every leftist I met so far had a different definition for the words "socialism", "communism" and a few others.

How can you expect to come to a consensus this way?

It would probably work pretty great if currency wasn't a thing.

>>3076948
How do you make a large country work without using money or any kind of universal exchange good like rare metals?

Serious question, I always see commies blaming everything on money but they don't tell me how things should be instead.

>>3073871
>lost the only war they ever fought
Couldn't be more wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War
I mean, I don't think it's good, but it turned out way better than a communist Spain would have.

>>3076892
Marx mixed the definitions of 'communism' and 'socialism' and even 'social democracy' very casually, so maybe Uljanov among others was confused?

But nonetheless, why large majority of Western people calling themselves Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats and those fellow-traveling liberals accepted the system and theory in Russia after October 1917 coup as being Communist? This was even amplified in the 80's when perestroika started. And until the very end (when no archival documents depicting his reign was yet available), Uljanov was described by these very people as the true Communist, whose system Dzugasvili 'perverted'? (same thing was said for him until it was no longer possible to deny the atrocities). That if Bronstein ('insert a Comissar with a Nagant to left and right side of Tsarist Officer' fame) or Kamenev had followed Uljanovs work (which was impossible, since neither wanted to do the ungrateful job at Secretariat, which the Georgian did) everything would have worked much better?

So, post-WW2, there you had your Eastern German proletariat and yet, it didn't work so good either.

>>3076948
Bolsheviks intentionally inflated their Monopoly money and tried to do the same thing to 'Kerensky' and 'Tsarist' money and the result was a 'shadow of centralized economy', that is, black market.

File: bmp.jpg (128KB, 1023x670px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 1023x670px

Welp, in communism you give away your freedom and in capitalism you give away your money .
nothing is perfect ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Choose between the evil you know best.

I live in Lithuania, and as a post-soviet country we have a lot of old people grew up during communism. My brother works as a paramedic, he told me that a lot of old people are trying to commit suicide because they don't have enough to support themselves.

>>3077008
>So, post-WW2, there you had your Eastern German proletariat and yet, it didn't work so good either.
Which in your opinion probably was not imposed on people already living under (National) 'Socialism', but on capitalist far-right government - the very pretext on which Marx's Social Democracy should have worked.

>>3076986
This question was, once more, left unanswered.

File: suicide.png (8KB, 1161x103px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 1161x103px

>>3077058
and that's why the suicide rate is so high here

>>3077058
>>3077081
Honestly, suicide rates are probably the most objective way to evaluate if a society is doing well or not.

File: 1481554707348.gif (1MB, 800x667px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 800x667px

>>3073434
>this fucking thread

>>3077083
yeah i guess

>>3076986
You produce, drop it in the warehouse, and take what you want.

>>3077089
Not an argument.

>>3077121
Bolsheviks did this, and it produced black market - and left the peasants starving to death (after which, obviously, the Muscovites and Peterhoodians starved to death too).

File: 1488335815107.jpg (12KB, 227x226px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 227x226px

People on the lower end of the bell curve will always exist, thus, beliefs in leftism will always exist.

>>3073434

It has never been tried

>>3077131
No, they didn't, at all. Did I mention central planning, directed production objectives or centralized distribution?

>>3077142
Its funny, because communism always has been the intelligent man's fetish, and an academic toy.
Its biggest tragedy is that the people its meant to help, the common people, never accepted it.
The USSR had to implement nationalism along it to get the poor stupid russians involved, since its nationalism thats low Bell curve stuff.

>>3076928
By using the terms defined by Marx to, you got it, discuss Marx's socio-economic theory.

And I'm not a "leftist". I actually think Marx's theory was wrong though he did correctly predict a few things.

I'm just pointing out that there is a difference between communism and "communism" as it applies to the revolutions of the 20th century. And if people could stop mixing those up we could actually have a productive conversation about. The problem is you have the people who have read Marx's shit, whether they agree with it or not, and those who haven't but criticize it anyway because they believe it's the same as the ideologies used in the 20th century and when corrected resort to memes like >muh not true communism

Criticize Marx, Lenin, Mao, Castro, etc. all you want. But at least know the differences between them all before you do.

>>3077142
Don't /pol/tards love iq tests? Because I'm pretty sure iq tests say the exact opposite. Smart people left left almost always.

>>3077157
lean*

>>3077144
Communism isn't something you try. It's a stage of development.

>>3073737
>workers steal
>factory owners take most of profit despite doing less work in better conditions.

File: 1483491563564.jpg (27KB, 386x441px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 386x441px

>>3077195
>this is your average leftist

fucking brainlets

>>3077121
No. Not going to happen.

If I am free to loot the warehouse, I take whatever I need. Everyone would. Warehouse would be forever empty.

The first step here is to force people to work to take something in the warehouse. Forced labor is called slavery, but still, how do you measure how much "things" someone add in the warehouse? How much wheat are needed to take a hammer? Do you measure in time? Then everyone would just pretend to work while they do close to nothing. And what about hard or dangerous jobs? It should give more.

At the end, you have an unit made to measure the input and the output of people and they must collect it before they can use it.

This is why we are currently using money in the first place.

>>3077148
So, you want a central planing forcing people to do jobs they don't necessary want to do and distribute the output the way they think would be best?

I don't specially like capitalism, but when I meet people like you, God, I am glad I live in a capitalist country.

File: 1498812806134.jpg (342KB, 720x720px) Image search: [Google]

342KB, 720x720px

>>3077157
>Smart people left left almost always.

>>3073434
laziness, greed

>>3077249
Hayek vs Keynes Round 2 on youtube is fuckin hilarious

>>3077237
>No. Not going to happen.
You asked a question and I answered. I'm not even a commie, nor do I particularly care if you think the scenario is realistic. There's a fiction book called The Dispossessed if you want a quick read about how such a society would work according to some commies.

>If I am free to loot the warehouse, I take whatever I need. Everyone would. Warehouse would be forever empty.
Then communism would be impossible. Although I don't think you are necessarily right. For example in catalonia:
>In many areas money was abolished. People come to the collective store (often churches which had been turned into warehouses) and got what was available. If there were shortages rationing would be introduced to ensure that everyone got their fair share. But it was usually the case that increased production under the new system eliminated shortages.
But there's also the case of unmanned stores in first world countries where you pay what you want. Why would people that willingly pay for stuff that could be free in stores deplete warehouses for no reason under another system?

>The first step here is to force people to work to take something in the warehouse.
Then it wouldn't be communism.

>>3077249
>So, you want a central planing forcing people to do jobs they don't necessary want to do and distribute the output the way they think would be best?
I don't want anything, I was answering a question. But I don't know where the fuck you got that, I said the exact opposite.

>>3077263
>tfw I will never be as smart as an alt right anime poster

File: 1498786039698.jpg (76KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 640x480px

>>3077301
>tfw people think you can only be left wing or alt-right

>>3077272
1 is better. 1 is always better.

>>3077287
I will take a look at this book, but what you proposed would lead to everyone starving. I wish it does not happen.

Catalogna lasted only two years and even they had to watch for the warehouse looters.

>>3077287
>The Dispossessed
Waitaminute....

This book is a fiction. The characters are not real. They don't act like real people.

>>3077397
>There's a fiction book called The Dispossessed
>Waitaminute.... This book is a fiction
Are you some kind of private investigator?

>>3077411
Do you have something more... realist about running an economy without money?

What are socialist/communist even fighting for? I know hat they don't want, they are very vocal about it but what is their end game?

>>3077426
You can either read about catalonia or other small experiments, read political theory, or read fiction. If you are looking for big historical examples, you won't find any. The anarchist faq is a good read if you have the time.

>what is their end game
A stateless, classless, moneyless society, by definition.

>>3077397
the dispossessed is Guin's semi-utopia, and utopic writing is only valid in sci-fi these days, not political theory.
The "endgame" is born out piecemeal, here and there, according to whatever writers scant interpretation.
It's for a simple reason: the idea is that once you get enough folks in a room who want something called socialism and have a working definition, the particulars can be worked out as a matter of political proceedings.

>>3077452
>small experiments
I want to know how my country would work if communist ideas were put in practice, not learn about some friends chilling in the wood. Catalogna lasted only two years and you pretend everyone was happy to work for the greater good and no one tried to take more than what he need. It's not even believable.

>A stateless, classless, moneyless society, by definition.
This is a progress. Now, what would it look like?

>>3077523
>Catalogna lasted only two years and you pretend everyone was happy to work for the greater good and no one tried to take more than what he need. It's not even believable.
Jesus Christ, stop being retarded. I'm not pretending anything, I'm not even a commie. You asked how would a communist society work according to communists and I answered. And yes, the distribution system kinda worked.

>This is a progress. Now, what would it look like?
Already answered. Again, I don't care if you don't consider it realistic, it is the answer to your question.

Here's the part of the faq that answers your question, read away:
http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq-10-17#toc34

>>3077552
Nice link, very informative.
>a socialist society would have to force people to do certain jobs
Slavery, here you come.

>>3077602
>It is quite fair to argue, therefore, that the disagreeable work will, to a large extent, disappear in a state of anarchism.
Even better.

>>3077602
>so the argument goes
They are expressing the opinion of their opponents. If you are going to purposefully misread whatever you disagree with don't even bother wasting your time.
Also, I linked to that specific section by mistake, the entire page (which is a small portion of the faq) is relevant so you should start from the beginning.

>>3077647
Yeah, I figured that only after sending it.

Now, let me quote it properly.
>In a collectivist or communist anarchist society, such an outcome would be avoided by sharing such tasks as fairly as possible between a community’s members. For example, by allocating a few days a month to all fit members of a community to do work which no one volunteers to do, it would soon be done. In this way, every one shares in the unpleasant as well as pleasant tasks (and, of course, minimises the time any one individual has to spend on it). Or, for tasks which are very popular, individuals would also have to do unpleasant tasks as well. In this way, popular and unpopular tasks would balance each other out.

As you can see, it is totally different than what the opponents of anarchism say.

>>3077657
It is. In fact, the next subsection is called "What about the person who will not work?". Again, start from the beginning (or look up the index) and stop misreading on purpose, or you're just wasting time. It's not about agreeing with them, it's about understanding what their position is without strawmaning the fuck out of them.

>>3077552
The more I read, the more I understand anarchism.

Companies are called syndicates.
Money is called labor notes.

I am looking for the word used for "person responsible for the direction of the syndicate" and "global authority solving the conflicts".

>>3077683
Bat'ko and "temporary military leader", or hetman if they are feeling old fashioned.
If there are any anarchists here, how is the mexican guy that always wears a mask, the one from the south thats doing a sort of revolution, called?

>>3076028
do you know what nazi means?

>>3077744
Sub commander Marco.

If someone kill/rape someone else, what happen?

>>3077763
The sub-commander Bat'ko temporary leader hetman will convince you (via savage beating) to change your rapist ways.

>>3077833
Isn't that a centralised decision?

>>3077904
No, we voted on it.

>>3073434
It has never been tried, we can't really know

>>3073434
I honestly wish you guys would just stop talking about communism as if it was a system of organizing society, because it's little more than a collection of theoretical frameworks regarding sociology, economy and history. It cannot "work" or "be implemented", it can just "be accurate in describing societal phenomena" or "be inaccurate in describing societal phenomena".

>>3073434
That was Imperial Russia

>>3077963
I just reverse-searched it and the results say otherwise, it's from the communist period.

Autocratic Communism has failed.
Democratic Communism works.

See: Norway (Socialist transition state)

T. Trump Supporter

>>3079017
Uh, when did they even claim they were transitioning to socialism?

>>3075999
Food was taken from peasants to be sent to the soldiers, since Russia had been at war for about 7 years at that point, WWI and then Civil War, and then war with Poland (which was supported by german imperial troops).
This huge and long shortage of food culminated in a terrible harvest in 1921, and people starved. Some chose to eat corpses rather than die in their beds.

>>3073831
>>3073649
Isn't modern China basically fascist?

>>3079017
>nordic countries are socialist
take the sickle up yours and smash the hammer into your head you retard

>>3079372
Less than Stalin era USSR was, at least China rotates its dictator and doesn't build statues of him everywhere.

>>3079423
>my specific, snowflake brand of socialism isn't used at the moment!!!

And I imagine in other conversations you are quite broad with your definition to shit on the left. Hilarious.

>>3079333
The only reason for the famine (which already started in 1919 in some Great Russian regions) was because of Bolshevik requisition policy - eventually known as 'War communism' - , on which muzhiks were robbed of grain they needed for themselves and of even grain seeds. And the more the region produced, more Bolsheviks took it; so muzhiks decided not harvest anything but bare minimum for themselves and since Bolsheviks took even harvest seeds, they eventually could not harvest anything.

When famine went into full motion, it was first denied by Bolsheviks, nothing done to help the victims and foreign aid denied for a long while and when it was finally accepted, Bolsheviks did all in their power to distrupt the supply to famine affected population. The majority of the foreign food aid was provided and paid for by Herbert Hoover - the big bad right-wing anti-communist - , who quite simply saved the Great Russian region from starving to death (and US would help the Russian three times in total in 20th century to not die from starvation).

The famine death toll is at least five millions. How many died in the last famine of Tsarist Russia - the one so violenty exploited by Russian revolutonaries as being evil plot of the Tsar to kill muzhiks? Nothing in comparison, because the state did everything in their power to help the famine affected population - complete opposite of what Bolsheviks did or what Mao did during the Great Leap.

>>3081374
You really don't know much about the world, do you?

https://www.forbes.com/best-countries-for-business/list/#tab:overall

>>3077323
>tfw alt-right brainlets try to reject labels because they have negative connotations and "you can't be criticised if you can't be referred to in conversation"
Sorry, but you don't get to choose your own adjectives. What you are is what people call you - they are using that word to refer to your ideologies. Nobody cares that a minority of people FEEL that the word should be used differently. What defines a word is how MOST people use it.

>>3077142
I love that the ideologies and behaviors of the far-right and/or alt-right (take your pic) have been so completely degraded for so long that they just keep falling deeper and deeper into the habit of irrational declarations, no matter how far from reality they have to get to sustain their own feelings internal consistency. They've gotten to the point where they're simply stating the exact opposite of common sense and statistical reality. "The left is low IQ", "the left is violent", "the left doesn't believe in personal responsibility". It's sad for the once-great cultures being affected by this, but it's mostly hilarious to watch such a large number of people lose their minds so utterly.

I used to think my upbringing was pretty lefty. Then I realized it could have been actual tankies.

>>3077004
falagnists aren't actual fascists tho kek. They were just REALLY christian or something but not fascist

>>3073434
That image was taken before the USSR existed.

>>3076847
good post

>>3076726
Emulated German gun design and invented the AK-47?

>>3082840
Where did you read that?

>>3073434
yeah, and capitalism won the cold war, LOLZ

>>3082958
A reverse search shows it's from the Russian famine of 1921-22. The Soviet Union was founded in December of 1922.

>>3081474
>What you are is what people call you
Not him but you're also a brainlet.

>>3073434
Because communism is an equal just society first of all.
Capitalism is finite and what next will be? Constant payment (dunno the term) from state to citizens in robotic society - isn't that communism or at least half way towards it?
Finally, don't mix up USSR and communism. USSR was politically bankrupt in 1918, when government forbid deputies to affect politics and economy. It's arguable but most would agree that by 1925 USSR was an empty shell. All that happened later had nothing to do with communism or fair society.

>>3076726

The greatest nuclear disaster in history

>>3082958
Its from the russian civil war, when food was confiscated from farmers to feed the soldiers.
Technically its not the USSR, though it was still Bolshevik rule in the area.
Still, using wartime, civil war after the great war non the less, disasters to discuss the political structure isn't good form.
After the war the food distribution was on point.

>>3076046
But the same communists don't seem to mind praising soviet education and industry whenever it suits them.

>>3076726
Are you autistic or something?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_the_Soviet_Union

>In the Soviet Union, science and technology served as an important part of national politics, practices, and identity. From the time of Lenin until the dissolution of the USSR in the early 1990s, both science and technology were intimately linked to the ideology and practical functioning of the Soviet state, and were pursued along paths both similar and distinct from models in other countries. Many great scientists, who worked in Imperial Russia (like, e.g. Konstantin Tsiolkovsky), continued to work in the USSR and gave birth to Soviet science.

>The Soviet government made the development and advancement of science a national priority, emphasizing science at all levels of education and showering top scientists with honours. Very large numbers of engineers graduated every year. Soviet scientists won acclaim in several fields, marked by a highly developed pure science and innovation at the theoretical level, though interpretation and application fell short. They were at the cutting edge of science in fields such as mathematics and in several branches of physical science, notably theoretical nuclear physics, chemistry, and astronomy. The physical chemist and physicist Nikolay Semenov was the first Soviet citizen to win a Nobel Prize, in 1956 among several other Soviet Nobel Prize winners and the mathematician Sergei Novikov was the first Soviet citizen to win a Fields Medal in 1970 followed by Grigory Margulis in 1978 and Vladimir Drinfeld in 1990.

>>3073434
Because those people are moronic niggers, who are jealous of those more successful than themselves.

>>3084915
t. wagecuck.

>>3084925
t. middle school dropout

>>3077083
If that's your metric, both Communism and Capitalism are abysmal failures and we should all become an-prims.

What's a good argument against "my version will work"

>>3077195
>value of work
>objective
Wew.

>>3084940
You just carry on believing that ((one day you'll be rich too if you just work hard enough.))

>>3081474
This is the dumbest post in this thread.

File: 92d0bf2d93ea350f2aa3b1bb5d724eab.jpg (34KB, 372x300px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 372x300px

>Why do people still believe that communism can work?
No blueprint for society (Communist or otherwise) can ever work because history is chaotic af so you always end up with something very different than intended. It's values that really matter, and leftist values, which are based on empathy and compassion, are better than right-wing values, which are based on hierarchy, reverence for power and fear. Right-wingers will try to scare you into thinking that not cowing to hierarchy will inevitably lead to some kind of great catastrophe. Don't fall for it, they only say so because they cling to their privileged position, and they don't actually know why catastrophes happen because as I said history is random as fuck.

>>3077762
Wow, you sure showed him dude. It's not like a fascist authoritarian would call himself such and not label his regime as something more appealing, because who wouldn't want to call their government "Fascist Authoritarian Dictator's Regime."

>>3083611
there we have it. a communist trying to argue that the 1917 october revolution never happened

>>3077128
This triggers the Commie

>>3086721
I'm not communist. I just realize that you can't blame the Soviet Union for a famine caused largely by war and its effects and natural disasters, let alone the fact that the Soviet Union didn't exist yet.

>>3086750
there we have it. a *non* communist trying to argue that the Bolsheviks had nothing to do with why russia experienced massive problems in the war

>>3076656
China and Russia were pretty much feudal before their revolutions.

>>3074277
>>3086800
You sound Marxist.

>>3086757
>blaming everything in a multi-sided war on one side
There were a dozen anti-communist forces, eleven of them foreign armies, fighting in the war. You think they didn't have something to do with it?

>>3086821
I didn't blame everything on the Bolsheviks. I was disputing the position that they had nothing to do with it and the problems that came with it.

>>3073434
1) People are fucking idiots, and will swing to idiological extremes like a political pendulum, because actually trying to WORK on the problem MIGHT lead to

2)hurting your ego. Identity politics (and politics in general) have become the new opiate of the masses, right and wrong have become irrelevant and been replaced with "I am right" and "YOU are wrong", fuck the facts.

3) /pol/ memed them into existence. Think about it, how many of those idiots that are now rioting on the streets grew up during the conservatives Tea Party craze, where "FUCKING COMMIES REEEEEEEEEEE" was pretty much the standard response to any kind of criticism, nay, even any display of human decency? I can easily see the average teenie see this and say "Huh. Clearly, since republicans are (rightfully or not) corrupt to the core, the thing they fear must clearly be the right solution :DDD!" Which of course allowed the actually seditious part of academia to get a seedbed to plant their SWJ armies.

Those are at least my own 2000 cents to the issue.

>>3086721
>>3086757
There we have it. An alleged historian trying to argue that the USSR is to blame for events occurring before the USSR came into existence.

>>3088296
>historian trying to argue that the USSR is to blame for events occurring before the USSR came into existence.
historian trying to argue that the Bolshevik's are partly to blame for the events occurring in the decades preceding the USSR*

>>3088320
>Bolshevik's
this is the state of the average capitalist historian

>>3088320
Everyone was partly to blame, both sides of the civil war, the farmers refusing to surrender a percentage of their harvest, the foreign invaders like USA, Japan, Britain, etc, the separatist movements...

Calling it a communist thing, or even worse an USSR thing, when neither the communists were in power in the region nor did the USSR exist, is objectively wrong.

Stop eating propaganda.Lefty or righty propaganda, I don't care, just stop it. Be neutral and objective.

>>3088510
>Calling it a communist thing, or even worse an USSR thing, when neither the communists were in power in the region nor did the USSR exist, is objectively wrong.
I agree, but I never said that. you're just arguing against your own strawman of what I'm saying

File: Yuriev_day.jpg (123KB, 1000x712px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 1000x712px

>>3073434
>work hard on your village to grow plants
>build a mill by income of many years of work
>pay a lot of taxes and spend half of your income on stuff needed
>finally you can adapt complicated huge manufacture of weed

>1917
>commies come to your village, steal your animals, appropriate your land and murder you if resist
>end up working your ass out in cheap forced labor job to "build the prosperous society of communism"

I know it from first hand experience.

>>3088613
>*wheat

>>307373
>losers
Steel workers receive minimum wage in US

>>3088580
>I agree, but I never said that.

I am happy to know that you are now aware the famine was not orchestrated by the Soviets.
It is a good thing to spread facts. Keep up the good fight.