Redpill me on Waco /k/

>>3064171
>What are your thoughts /k/?

a government that wanted to make an example out of some anti-government folks finally ran into some anti-government folks who wanted to make an example out of government folks

Waco was a mixture of over exerted force by our gvt. And a paranoid fantical leader. I'd say it was a fuck up on both sides of the whole story.

>>3064172
.....but didn't that also cause Timothy McVeigh to blow up the federal building in OKC?

>>3064173
agreed

>>3064174
yes

I wouldnt worry about it

>>3064177
go away ghost of janet reno

>>3064177
made me check on my dog

It was a bunch of fascist bullshit. These days people just say "oh but they were pedos", but the pedo character assassination shit was only circulated after the smoke had cleared and everyone was dead. For all the no-knock raids, I honestly think that the feds conduct themselves better now than the 80s/90s, probably because of the greater scrutiny of mass media.

>>3064171
Janet Reno's propensity for using the ATF like her own private Gestapo lead to tragedy once again

>>3064180
and the fact that the average American is now more likely to blast anyone (and succeed now that AR-15s are so fucking widespread) doing a no knock raid

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>>3064181
>like her own private Gestapo lead to tragedy once again

>>3064171
They had it coming

I don't even know how the fed should respond back then. Sure they could make a better judgement back then but when the other guy is shooting you with 50 BMG, then the military involvement is plenty justified

>>3064182
Also mcveigh taught them that they cant piss off the public to badly.

The ATF was on the chopping block because they're a useless gov't organization, and the feds were in the middle of a government shutdown, looking for worthless agency to cut.

Janet Reno used the ATF to attack people they knew would respond poorly to an attack, and engineered a standoff. Then they set children on fire. The feds deserved every dead body they got in Oklahoma City.

You're gonna have a hard time extracting much sympathy for kiddie-diddlers.

>>3064187
Kind of fucking hard to prove those allegations when you burned both the alleged victims and perpetrators to a crisp.

>>3064186

>The feds deserved every dead body they got in Oklahoma City.
What about the 70 people who weren't federal employees, not even mentioning all the wounded?

>>3064171

I'm okay with what happened all around. I hate anti-government libertarian sovereign citizen types as much as I hate our current government. I don't hate all government in general, just our current one. We ALWAYS seem to be fighting for the wrong fucking side.

>>3064185
What happened?

>>3064189
Civilian shields before we taught the same tactic to insurgents in the ME. Not their fault that those loons ignore the laws and customs of War and attacked anyway.

>>3064192

Do you think the civilians deserved it, and was the bombing justified?

>>3064171
BAMN and Antifa Needs this kind of treatment...they are basically Domestic Terrorists

But for Waco, weren't they just religious nutters that just lived in their little bubble? What did they do that brought the Ire of Janet Reno?

>>3064194
Didn't they shoot at a inspection crew from local child services on suspicion of mistreatment and pedophilia? Or is that some other siege i'm mixing up with this?

>>3064191
The Oklahoma City Bombing.

Though I kind of suspect that it was a false flag operation, supposedly the FBI murdered a witness providing testimony they didn't like, then tried to fake the autopsy to make it look like he wasn't murdered.

>>3064196
Yeah because that's what the FBI does

>>3064171
>Was it justified?
No
>Did the ATF go too far?
yes
The ATF could have handled the entire situation astronomically better without casualties.

>>3064171
>Did the ATF go to far?

I don't know, anon. Where is far and how would the atf get there?

>>3064171
Scans for something even remotely /k/ related.
This is a shit thread anon you should feel bad.

>>3064195
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

tl;dr Koresh was a wackadoo and admitted child molester (this is part of the public record) and the atf did everything possible to make the situation worse.

>>3064190
>reddit spacing
>bootlicker
>summer
Find a mortality statistic to make a contribution to.

>>3064192
Oh fuck off, McVeigh got lazy and a lot of innocent people died because of it. had he bothered to do some research or attack a government building that wasn't primarily for cashing social security checks he could have been an American folk hero. Instead, he targeted civilians, and is a terrorist.

>>3064202
>>reddit spacing

Oh, the dreaded >reddit Boogeyman

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>>3064197
>Yeah because that's what the FBI does
>Suggesting that's not what they do
Anon... I may have some bad news for you.

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>>3064203
>Instead, he targeted civilians, and is a terrorist.

he would have ended up a terrorist either way. "they" say what you are.

>>3064197
I don't see why they couldn't.

The ATF isn't supposed to murder infants but they did.

>>3064202
I have literally seen "reddit spacing" be used against basically every kind of post and formatting. Most frequently, I see it called out on idiots who spaces out after every single sentence, which is a shitty way to format your text, but I've also seen it used in every other way, both with good formatting, as well as infinitely worse formatting, which leads me to believe it's mostly a meme for idiots who either scared of the good old reddit boogeyman, or people who scramble to come up with a real argument but come up short.

He is a disgusting bootlicking shitcock though, so I won't disagree with you there.

>>3064206
Much easier to make that case when he decided to truck bomb a fucking day care center

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>>3064208
well Breivik also "killed children" and 34 year old "syrian refugee" men pose as children in sweden so like I said, facts don't matter. their narrative will end up in the MSM and on wikipedia and all that's left for you is to eat shit or a bullet.

>>3064205
I think I'm the one with bad news for you, sonny.
What are you gonna do now, post some clickbait article or conspiracy theory that probably doesn't even prove your point anyway?
Maybe a Wikipedia article that still doesn't prove your point because your point is that it is the FBI's duty and objective to murder witnesses because they don't like what they have to say? The Federal Bureau of Investigation?
What's next, the fucking United States Department of Education faked Sandy Hook, or some shit?

>>3064209
>I reject your reality and substitute my own

Let me guess, Sandy Hook was a hoax right? Or maybe my aunt has been a 50 year old jewish sleeper cell.

>>3064211
>>3064210
gtfo with your strawmen. you're implying "we" are saying ever low level shit agent is part of an intricate conspiracy. the reality is much more mundane and sinister. people fuck up and want to cover their asses. shit get's bungled under way even more. remember fast and furious? it's what happens when alphabet soup agencies are used to push political agendas. the average agent is much more an incompetent thug than a co-conspiratorial mastermind of the lizard juice.

>>3064212
You're literally proving our point every time you fucking post, you retarded twenty-something autist.

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>>3064178
NO!

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>>3064177

>>3064197
FBI has a long history of setting shit up to be hailed as heroes. like during the Iran-Contra fiasco, and the days of rage.

>>3064216
The FBI has exactly zero history of murdering witnesses as part of their collective mission.

>>3064217
Melvin Purvis murdered people left and right for Hoover. and Tranny Hoover was the Beria of the USA.

Play stupid games, win stupid prices. Like death.
Nothing of value was lost

>>3064188
We live in a post proof world where you can say anything and someone will believe it.

>>3064220
That also goes for the retards that actually believe that it is legal to publically masturbate in Sweden, and that refugees are allowed to rape and murder people and nobody makes any effort to stop them, and so on forth.

>>3064207

When they do it like this it's the only real dead giveaway anything else could be forum habits.

>>3064221
They do make zero effort to stop Muslims from raping because it would be "racist"

>>3064223
You are genuinely pants on head retarded if you believe this, but I wouldn't be surprised if you do considering the general age of most people who browse this site and board.

>>3064171
They were murdered. Plain and simple. If you don't listen to the cops they try to murder you. Either shoot you, torture you, or burn you.

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>>3064171

Play stupid games

>stockpiling fuckloads of illegal weapons

Win stupid prizes

>Get raided by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms.

Play stupid games:

>Barricade your cultists into a cheaply made tinderbox full of weapons

Win stupid prizes

>It gets set on fire

How, exactly, am I supposed to feel badly about this?

Two groups of retards artistically screeching at each other with weapons ended in tears.

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>>3064171

>>3064226
Found the agent

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>>3064226
Evidence Shermanfags are Statist cucks.

>illegal weapons
False
>Dig into noise complaint
>"Oh yeah they fire so much it sounds like full auto! Nice folks though"
>"WE GOT THEM BOYS LETS BURN SOME CHILDREN ALIVE"

>gets set on fire
ATF's fault
>Try to escape burning building
>ATF shoots you and unarmed children while you flee from fire

>>3064197
Las Carpetas would like a word with you Anon

>>3064230
>southern culture was pure American
>landed elite pretending to be euro nobility while poor whites can suck a dick
The south was shit and deserved what it got

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>>3064229
>>3064230

I see we're picking and choosing our truths today.

That's cool. Tell me more.

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>>3064233
>>3064232
>Hey guys let's end slavery for blacks..
>.. by making everyone a slave to the federal government!
Fuck off bootlickers

>>3064197
We cant trust the FBI man we cant trust the our government but i'm reasy for them when they come lnocking you know

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>>3064187
don't molest kids, set them on fire.

>>3064180
>These days people just say "oh but they were pedos"

Because when children are touched by a pedophile, the natural response to mete out justice is to burn the children to death instead of rescuing them.

>>3064194
>.they are basically Domestic Terrorists
the most they've done is break windows and beat a defenseless trashcan

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>>3064234
Are you mad that the side of the war you didn't fight in lost?

>>3064224
Word

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>>3064236

>>3064171
>cultists

Yeah, should have nuked it.

>>3064245
that rooftop shootout was pretty metal

>>3064210
Have a (((you)))

>>3064174
Years later, nobody at Waco had anything to do with McVeigh

>People unironically don't think the egomaniac leader of an apocalypse cult would rather kill off his own flock than let the government take it.

>>3064210
So you have all these unclassified documents about public experiments and other good reads put out by the alphabet agencies THEMSELVES but the occasional cover-up murder is too much to wrap your head around? Do you also believe that vaccines cause autism? Because if so I can assure you you aren't the way you are because of vaccines...

>>3064196
Kenneth Michael Trentadue

>>3064197
>he doesn't know about the guy who got shot in the back of the head in FBI custody while being interviewed off camera which is against bureau policy.
They have a long history of doing bad shit.

Nothing of value was lost.

>Texas
>FBI
The feds just decided to pull the plug on this one and have a nice Texan BBQ. Not even kidding, they most likely just set that fire because they knew all davidians would not surrender.

>>3064171
Armed anti-government religious nutjobs living in a compound.

Anti-government religious nutjobs have a right to live in a compound, and to be armed.

Government can't stand armed people, religious people, or anti-government people, so it seems like a no-brainer to them to invade.

Leader of the religious nutjobs was reportedly doing what a lot of them tend to do; namely, impregnating underage children and generally creating a pretty oppressive environment for some of the followers. Someone's uncle's cousin's friend-in-law mentioned that they might have some illegal weapons. Maybe enough reliability in any of that to be actionable and maybe not, but the government sure wanted there to be.

Government decides to flex its muscle and go in hot and heavy. Techniques used even in the initial "psychological warfare" phase, not to mention the bumbling attack with really bad gas and weapons, are all weird, oppressive, scary stuff you'd expect from the Chi-coms. Lots of people die.

American public divides cleanly into three opinions:
1 - Wackjobs got what they had coming, they shouldn't have been weird religious people.
2 - Federal government are assholes and tyrants, time to shorten that leash.
3 - Shhh, I'm busy watching Seinfeld.

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>>3064210
found the suit

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>>3064210
>trust the media and government

>>3064226
>tinderbox
the literal tanker of tear gas they pumped through the whole fucking building before a "flashbang" capable of showing up on a FLIR cam sets off the whole blaze and Dresdens anyone and everyone in the compound didn't help much

>>3064243
there's a place I go in my head when everything is falling apart and I need a little respite from the world

this child now lies interred there and I fear the day I feel the need for a little respite because that body will ensure I find none

>>3064270

Shut the fuck up you pussy

>>3064228
Any source on the last bit (the sniper at Waco being one of the snipers at Ruby Ridge)?

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>>3064271
Just sayin' if you hear some crazy fuck on the news telling the world he did it for Waco, you'll know you ought to've screencapped this post

>>3064273
>Bill of rights
Old and obsolete. Where's your musket?

Your daily reminder that the ATF had no reason to be there and the only document allowing them on the property was wrong and obtained illegally

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>>3064274
how's .729 cal for you?

>>3064274
SHALL

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>>3064270
>She used to run and play in those shoes. Shoes her daddy bought her, and when she first tried them on she swore she could jump higher.

I lost my dad recently. I didn't sign up for these feels.

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>>3064238

There was a rather strange conversation at Fort Bragg as it developed. The SAS WO and Major present pointed out to the assembled room, with ATF and FBI present, that if there were 30 British citizens there then why couldn't they be arrested on immigration charges? The rest could then be arrested on related charges, like hiding illegal immigrants.

FBI said they weren't illegals. ATF said it didn't matter. This piqued the interest of the permanent unit stationed at Fort Bragg, who echoed the SAS' position that if a quarter of them were Brits then it would be much easier to just see who was in the country illegally (all of them, as they had all gone over their tourist visa) and arrest them on that. The military position was that the legal options should be exhausted, or even just considered in the first place.

At that point the FBI representative shifted the conversation elsewhere, or attempted to. He then accused the Delta and SAS position of being unfounded. They had come to get tactical advice from Fort Bragg, not a lesson in the law. Regardless, a four man team (including the two SAS men) went out to Waco to observe.

There is some debate as to what exactly their role was, but their original position and assessment proved to be correct. I have no idea why the above was not attempted but it doesn't even seem to warrant a mention.

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>>3064280
Now this is new news to me. Of course, it only validates every horrible thing that should ever happen to anyone at all connected with those two agencies in any capacity whatsoever for the remainder of eternity.

>>3064280
>He then accused the Delta and SAS position of being unfounded. They had come to get tactical advice from Fort Bragg, not a lesson in the law
Jesus. Wish I had been in that room and seen the look on DELTA and SAS guys faces when the FBI fuckface starts to accuse them and when they realized they can't help those fed idiots due their heads being so far up in their asses.

>>3064282
more importantly, why didn't they stop the morons

assuming this isn't pasta, of course

Perpetrated by the same man that Gave NOKO nuke reactors, nuke fuel and 100's of millions of dollars to buy ICBM tech with, also a serial rapist, pedophile, Globalist and murderer. I won't even mention his wife's crimes

>>3064180
He was a cult leader that was fucking *everyone* but the girls were personal favorites. The accusations were made by a family that escaped before he went Jim Jones on them.

>>3064237
I get the feeling you weren't born when it happened, the cultists set the fires off in the corners of the interior and it was part of their written internal response to a federal raid breaching the compound. The fires were being lit when the tank was rolling up so it looked like the tank caused it when it opened a hole and introduced oxygen into the room.

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>>3064285
>all these lies
Nice try, fed-kun.

>>3064171
Idk but my dad was a driver for one of the tanks they called in. Pretty dank.

>>3064285
Yeah its easy to make people believe the propaganda when you bulldozed every piece of evidence to the ground. The problem comes in when you try to explain away the bulldozing itself and why they were there in the first place.

>>3064283
Four unarmed men. Not really much they could do, even if they wanted to.

>>3064281
The SAS angle is discussed at length elsewhere but I believe it's probably the only straight thing about the whole siege - they were present at Fort Bragg and were apparently asked for their 0.02 because of 1. Their immense experience and 2. The dozens of Brits who were at Waco. They were then flatly ignored, mainly due to their questioning of the FBI and ATF motivation and position. Delta had the same amount of luck.

The small group of military that were consulted were firmly of the opinion that the FBI had come to them expecting them to be in awe, down tools and get fully on board with their thesis. Instead they had the gall to point out to the FBI and ATF that it would be far easier to just arrest them on a crime they actually had committed, not one they may have committed, which no one in the letter agencies had the courage to do.

>>3064282
Delta were dumbfounded. The FBI came with a solution that they wanted given a special forces seal of approval. They genuinely thought it was a master plan and that they would sign off on it.

>>3064280
Do you have a source for this? I've never heard this before but it's a fucking bombshell if it's true.

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>>3064284
>This fucking post

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreed_Framework

How the fuck have I not heard of this before?

Fucking CHRIST ON A CRACKER how is this possible? Every time I thought that fucking monster couldn't top himself, I'm just surprised a couple months down the line about a Presidency I was an infant for. That is disgusting and one of the most ineffective, idiotic plans I've ever heard, and if it wasn't entirely stupid it was intentionally malicious to the well-being of the world. Now I see the blueprint for Obama's Iranian "Diplomacy."

Who the fuck ever supported or loved this man as President? How can they not look at the records of Waco, of this, almost every-single-fucking-thing he did and not come to the conclusion most of our modern problems came squarely from his office? Why the fuck can he get away one a meme of being some cool, philandering sax-playing faggot in the media to cover all this deplorable idiocy?

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>>3064285
>so it looked like the tank caused it when it opened a hole and introduced oxygen into the room.

So you're admitting they brought a tank to a hostage situation and decided to try and drive it right through the hostages, huh? I mean, that's so much better than intentionally burning them alive.

>>3064291
>The objective of the agreement was the freezing and replacement of North Korea's indigenous nuclear power plant program with more nuclear proliferation resistant light water reactor power plants

Not seeing the problem desu

>>3064293
>nuclear proliferation resistant
coming from a clinton run white house, I have to doubt the veracity of those buzzwords

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>>3064293
Yeah, how's that going for us?

>These nuclear factories are giving us a problem
>I know! Let's give them two NEWER ones!
>Also getting that START III thing going is just too much work, let's forget about that until I need votes

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Everyone in this thread is cherry picking facts to create a story they want to hear.

People escaped the compound during the raid and long before it and they all speak at length of how there was always a plan to die for their leader. Recorded evidence from milk-crates brought in to feed the cultists play out how folks inside lit the fires that smoothered those inside. The majority of the bodies were recovered from the reinforced concrete bunker, and they all appeared to succumb to smoke inhalation.

Was it poorly executed. Yap.
Were the grounds to assault the compound a weaker than a cucks boner? Yarp.
Were the Branch Dividians guilty of stockpiling tons of weapons for an End of Times event? Sure, but that's not really a crime.
Were the Branch Dividians one order away from being religious extremists? Maybe, 8-ball says "Ask again"
Does the government frown upon armed, religious zealots of any flavor? Typically.

This whole event coulda gone differently, but then we wouldn't have had Oklahoma and then we may not have had the rapid retreat for sprawling ultra-nationalism that was rampant in the early 90's, post Reagan years.

It was an event and it happened and it happened in a silly fashion but I don't get my blood pressure up over it.

Ruby Ridge, on the other hand, THAT is worth getting infuriated.

But I'm just some faggot.

>>3064272
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

>>3064184

> the other guy is shooting you with 50 BMG

<citation needed>

>>3064296
>hasn't watched WACO: Rules of Engagement
Ruby Ridge was bad, but Waco was far, far worse.

>>3064297
Holy shit. I figured that'd just be some urban legend.

How in the fuck did they cover for him TWICE?

>>3064226

>illegal weapons

<citation needed>

>>3064179
kek

>>3064324
>oops, we misplaced th- err, all of it
reminds me how many electronic records Hillary accidentally deleted through other people

>>3064285

For "family that escaped" read "son of the former leader who was apoplectic that his mom passed leadership over to Koresh instead of him, insisted Koresh was fucking and impregnated her (the source of the "I'm God" quote), turned up at the compound with her dug up corpse and insisted Koresh resurrect her to prove his divinity, then elbowed his way into a messy divorce case between a Davidian and a non member as an """"expert witness"""" "

>>3064296

>People escaped the compound during the raid and long before it and they all speak at length of how there was always a plan to die for their leader.

<citation needed>

>>3064228

IN the end the real problem is that the govmint allowed dozens of groups to live in their own little communities by whatever rules they wanted which inevitably turned into amoral things to the USA like underage marriage n shit. So the govmint inevitable tagged everyone involved as evil and took them down violently.

WACO wasn't the only cult going around with that stuff

Americna police is also grossly incompetent, and of all the feds the ATF's incompentence was legendary and often led to disaster.

>>3064265
Good post

>>3064287
What's his opinion?

>>3064273
2nd amendment should be crossed off with the NFA.

>>3064191
Tim McVeigh thought that the Waco Bombing was a sign that the US government was gonna crack down on everyone and lead to a second civil war (he read too much of The Turner Diaries), so he thought the only logical solution was to fight back by bombing a federal building.

>>3064297
Lon dindu nuffin

>>3064259
McVeigh specifically said in an interview that, if given the chance to do it again differently, he would have assassinated key ATF and FBI people who were involved in Waco, like Janet Reno and Lon Horiuchi.

Fun fact, Lon Horiuchi was also the sniper at Ruby Ridge who shot Randy Weaver's pregnant wife in the face.

>>3064277
NOT

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>>3064177

>>3064208
McVeigh had no idea the daycare center was in the building, he was after the ATF office.

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>>3065934
BE

>>3064274
1776 WILL COMMENCE AGAIN!

>>3064274
>Implying I don't have a flintlock always loaded next to my AR

Its like you don't into the 2A

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>>3065960
INFRINGED

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>>3064171
This has nothing to do with any serious topic but I work with vet who drove trucks. He transported Armored vehicles down to Texas for the siege and spent a few nights not far from the compound.

>>3064274
>liberty is hard, why can't big papa gubment take care of me :(
You have to go back

>>3064274

He says via medium that isn't handwritten with a quill or printed using a hand powered printing press.

>>3065960
>the sticky bolt on the nugget

made me chuckle

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>>3064171

McVeigh deserves to have a statue erected in his honor

>>3064188
>>3064237
If they were rescued then they'd have physical scars to match the mental scars, which is not the right type of fair in this society

>>3064226
Confirmed Shermanfags are cuckold bootlickers.
I'd appreciate your no-nonsense if it were not for the most anti-nationalist left-wing bullshit

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>>3064177

>>3068209
>Scouts the surrounding buildings to mitigate child casualties
>Doesn't notice the daycare center right as he walks in when checking out the Fed building

He was either autistic or legitimately didn't care about killing the kids.

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>>3068209
You could make him a saint, since he was a roman catholic and all.

>>3064230
This. They're literally just puppets with no idea of what it means to be an individual. Luckily we're in charge once again.