Zimmerman Telegram and Mexican involvement in WWI

>>3059423
wasn't Mexico ina civil war at that time? or fresh out of one...

>>3059445
Yeah, the government was hunting Villa and Zapata until 1915, a year after U.S. got involved in WWI. Mexico didn't draft or declare a new constitution until 1917 I think.

/pol/ thinks it was a Zionist plot

>>3059423
Sure, but it would have been a terrible mistake. I doubt the Germans would have been able to send supplies to Mexico, and it was politically unstable at the time

>>3059551
Fair enough, the 1910s really fucked Mexico with all the secession troubles and coups and all that. Do you attribute the political instability in 1914 to the Mexican Civil War, or simply the rapid rise and fall of Mexican presidents? Perhaps if Pershing or Carranza was able to capture Villa before 1915 then the situation would be much different.

>>3059481
>/pol/ thinks _____ was a Zionist plot
Color me surprised

>>3059610
>>3059610
Both actually. The civil war created a lot of mistrust towards the government, and the many opportunistic shits worsened the situation. Took years to appease the Mexicans. As for Villa's capture, I doubt it would have made a huge difference, México simply didn't have the industrial output to challenge the US. It would be far easier for the Germans to have smarter foreign policies, therefore, the US wouldn't get involved in WW1

>>3059648
Would unrestricted submarine warfare be considered a failing foreign policy, military policy, or both? The Zimmerman Telegram already stated the Germans were set on using it at the start of February, and wanted to ally with Mexico as a way of cutting their losses. It seems like the Germans knew their indiscriminate U-boat use would provoke America to break with neutrality, and they were trying to find ways around that instead of rethinking the U-boats. Would you agree?

>>3059481
Nobody cares about what this bunch of autistic kids think.

I once though it was an inside job, as no diplomat would ever try to persuade a nation that was coming out of it's own war to join another one thousands of miles away. But then I realized that war brings out desperation when things get rough.

File: cooperv23.jpg (46KB, 620x758px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 620x758px

Just think how history might have been changed if Germany had sent a singing telegram.

>>3059677
Definitely failing in foreign, and militarily is arguable. The Germans attempted to cut the British(somewhat successful); I agree as in they most likely knew that the possibility of provoking the US was likely. (Sussex and Lusitania)

>>3059701
What about the possibility of America retaliating against Mexico? There were rising tensions over Veracruz, Pancho Villa Expedition, and general anti-Mexican/Anti-American sentiment in the native populations, and the U.S. really wanted the Tampico oil fields. If the anti-war effort in Congress faltered after the reveal the telegram was legit, could you see Wilson going "fuck it, we're taking the oil" as a precursor to entering the European theater? One thing I discovered was that the British fleet bought 75% of it's oil from Mexico, so I assume if the U.S. wanted to side with the allies, jeopardizing their #1 fuel reserves is a big no-no.

People always say "but muh mexicans had a comparable armed forces at the time!" but that's mostly bullshit because Mexico was even more unstable then than it is now (which is pretty fucking unstable) and their military was worn out from fighting a huge civil war. The Americans would probably lose some ground in Arizona and New Mexico (both worthless shitholes at the time) and would've come back swinging like the Mexicans had never seen before, absolutely BTFOing them eventually and probably annexing/protectorate-ing the juicier border provinces.

>>3059913
Same question to you >>3059610
What do you think could have reduced Mexico's political instability, the early capture of Villa and Zapata, or just more time for Carranza to sort out his government?

>>3059862
I doubt it, remember that the US had a huge neutral sentiment until German aggressions increased.

here's the full text of the document
>We intend to begin on the first of February unrestricted submarine warfare. We shall endeavor in spite of this to keep the United States of America neutral. In the event of this not succeeding, we make Mexico a proposal of alliance on the following basis: make war together, make peace together, generous financial support and an understanding on our part that Mexico is to reconquer the lost territory in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. The settlement in detail is left to you. You will inform the President of the above most secretly as soon as the outbreak of war with the United States of America is certain and add the suggestion that he should, on his own initiative, invite Japan to immediate adherence and at the same time mediate between Japan and ourselves. Please call the President's attention to the fact that the ruthless employment of our submarines now offers the prospect of compelling England in a few months to make peace.
>Signed, ZIMMERMANN

you can clearly see that Germany knew that unrestricted submarine warfare was certain to draw the US into war, but they grossly overestimated its value in ending the war quickly.

>>3060632
Yup, that much is clear, and putting too much faith in the U-boats to cripple the British navy turned into a double-edged blade for them. Funny how they wanted to try and have Japan switch sides too. What I'm asking is if /his/ thinks there was any way Germany could have successfully convinced Mexico to accept the agreement. I think there were other ways Germany could have weakened the Brits, such as convincing Mexico to stop selling oil to them.