This thread is meant for the discussion of Franks, especially

>>3045391
Why did they divide land equally rather than just make the first son king of the Romans and the others dukes

>>3045409
Frankish cultural customs meant that they saw land as mere property to be divided up amongst sons almost equally.

>>3045409
you mean the division after the 843 treaty of verdun?

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these are the Germanic tribes that are said to have later formed the Frankish people

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>>3045391
>especially their origins
I summed most of my arguments, except about their culture, in pic related

>the correlation between the Frankish and modern French.

>carry the same name
>people call you the same name
>inhabit the same land
>look exactly the same
>somehow not the same people

There is literally no need to debate about it

>>3045471
>There is literally no need to debate about it

Yes there is. I find your arguments interesting and when you present a viewpoint thoroughly opposing the widespread narrative that should be discussed.

What's /his/ stance on that topic?

I'll later make an infograph that summarizes some inaccuracies I sense in your pic.

Also, you previously said the Franks/ as you call them: French completely replaced the population of northern and central Gaul, only the mediterranean coast was still populated by Gallo-Romans. How did this exactly occur?

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>>3045502
>Also, you previously said the Franks/ as you call them: French completely replaced the population of northern and central Gaul, only the mediterranean coast was still populated by Gallo-Romans. How did this exactly occur?

Caesar depopulated Nothern Gauls killing 1 million of men and enslaving another million(both male and female)

Then came the Third Century Crisis which further depopulated Gauls

Then the Barbarian Invasions finished the Job.

At the time we came into Gauls we were polygamous while the Gauls weren't which meant that we had a superior birthrate and simply outbred the already weakned Gallo-Romans.

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>>3045502

Contemporaries confirm the depopulation by the way

>>3045471
>>3045554
>>3045576
WE WUZ NOT GERMANS N SHIET
seeing you larping as panonian or whatever is heartbreaking. Like everyone else Frenchies got bumrushed by the Germanics during migration age. They got conquered, got a Germanic ruling aristocracy, got Germanic laws and Germanic speaking rulers. making absurd tl:dr infographics wont change that.

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>>3045601
>. They got conquered, got a Germanic ruling aristocracy, got Germanic laws and Germanic speaking rulers. making absurd tl:dr infographics wont change that.

Go back on earth, Robert
You're merely little barbarians that we vanquished

t. Charlemagne

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reminder that you're arguing with this delusional retard

>>3045979
The Trojan part was just a joke

The Pannonian part is true tho

>>3045979
omfg, I laughed so hard, what an autistic fuck.

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>>3045625
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Benedikt_(Mals)

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>>3045391
>falling for the "Frankish" meme

https://cedricfrancoisleclercq.blogspot.ro/2015/08/la-gaule-gallia-en-latin-disparu-il-y-3.html
https://rutube.ru/video/154030eb53a09d7f7af70d608bc87982/

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>>3046086

>>3045471
The linguistic argument is ridiculous. Of course the Franks didn't used Frankish as official language. Frankish was only spoken by the Franks whereas Latin was known by a lot of different subjects. However, the Franks still spoke Frankish among themselves.

>>3045471
>the Frankish language just didn't fucking exist
What a joke of an image, all cherrypicked bullshit to try and run contrary to a well established and accepted narrative.

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>>3045471

>>3046126
>>3046082
>South Tyrol
It is a Lombard terrtiory, it has nothing to do with the Franks

>>3046115
Please elaborate

>>3046092
Do you have any proof to back up your claim

Cause the so called language Frankish language was reconstructed using French world

If the so called Frankish language existed, where the text wrote in it ?
Why didn't the Franks write their customs laws (Salic law) into it ?

Both Brits and Germans are actually sons of French and so Gauls from Pannonia who by the way came from Troy and practiced Zorotastrianism.

>>3046770
>was reconstructed using French world
was reconstructed using French words

>where the text wrote in it ?
where are the texts written in Frankish ?

>write their customs laws (Salic law) into it ?
write their customary laws (Salic law) into Frankish?

>>3046770
>South Tyrol
>It is a Lombard terrtiory, it has nothing to do with the Franks

nope, annexed by Charlemagne, the time fits 800, here's another source that says it's Frankish
https://www.nzz.ch/gesellschaft/attraktionen-vinschgau-ld.151428

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>>3046799
>annexed by Charlemagne

Do you really think because the territory is annexed it somehow make it Frankish ?

The land of the Franks, our land, is between the Loire and Rhine(see >>3045625 ) not in fucking Lombardy.

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>>3046799
>here's another source that says it's Frankish
Just checked

it inded say he was Frankish, my guess it that he mongrelized with Lombards which would expalin his blond hair

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>>3046848
yes, the annexed territories back then were ruled by the nobility of the victors (Franks)

Also, the medieval (12th century I think) pics of these blond Frenchmen still doesn't go along with your theory that northern and middle Frances population was completely replaced by NOT BLOND Franks... they can't be that racially homogenous when few centuries later all their nobles were blond I think....

>>3046858
maybe your book and your theory is simply wrong when you constantly have to rely on assumptions and there's a reason the notion of Franks being Germanic is widely accepted

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Clotilde_partageant_le_royaume_entre_ses_fils.jpg

>>3046858
>he mongrelized
his father mongrelized*

FTFM

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>>3046868

Your pic is a non comtemporary depiction of Clovis not of French nobles

French nobles looked like that (my pic is contemporary btw)

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>Franks
>Charlemagne
>Early Middle Ages

Wew lads

>especially their origins
ok, as I understand it the Franks were heavily romanized

During the crisis of the 3rd century the Franks were among the tribes making incursions into the Roman Empire, having been displaced themselves by the Saxons from their homeland north of the Rhine close to the coast of the Zuiderzee (or Lake Flevo). Afterwards, with Roman power restored, the Franks reached an accord and were settled around the mouth of the Rhine as a buffer state.

During the turbulent reign of Constantius II the Franks rose up and took Cologne and other territories but were promptly put down by future Emperor Julian the Apostate. Due to new Saxon incursions he allowed the subjugated "Salian" Franks to settle west of the Meuse in 358 in exchange for military service.

A few years later a certain Teutomer enters the records fighting for Julian against the Sassanids, likely a prominent noble commanding the Frankish auxiliaries raised to fulfil their obligation to the empire.

Teutomer's supposed heir Richomeres followed in his father's footsteps and excelled, serving the Emperor against the Goths (Adrianople 378) and Magnus Maximus (388) and rising to the rank of Consul. His last mission was to stop his usurper nephew Arbogastes.

Richomeres' son Theodemer is described by Gregory of Tours as King of the Franks. The Franks had transformed from a tribe to a more organized body, though he reigned in the utterly chaotic period after the sack of Rome, was possibly denied office due to his usurper cousin Arbogastes and later executed for supporting the usurper Jovinus.

Theodemer's possible son was Chlodio Longhair who contended with the Romans until Flavius Aetius blocked his path, but it is telling that Aetius couldn't finish the job.

Here we arrive at Merovech, Chlodio's possible son, said to have allied with Aetius against the Huns at the battle of Catalaunian fields, though Merovech doesn't appear in the historical record, maybe due to all the chaos.

File: miniature-depicting-pope-leo-iii-crowning-charlemagne-emperor-on-christmas-day-800-from-chroniques-de-france-ou-de-saint-denis-vol-1-second-quarter-of-the-14th-century.jpg (94KB, 530x215px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3046879
french
https://ajcarlisle.wordpress.com/tag/twelve-noble-peers/

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>>3046879
french
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_avril.jpg

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>>3046879
french
https://historyofeuropeanfashion.wordpress.com/category/medieval-1100-1450/

>>3046903
FUCKING READ THE NAME OF YOUR OWN PICS


It is written that it is a depiction of Charlemagne from the 14th CENTURY

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>>3046920
redhead joan of arc
>>3046920
why would medieval frenchmen depict their ancestors as blond when they weren't blond themselves?

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>>3046926
there's also a blonde version if you prefer that

http://cerbi.ldi5.com/IMG/pdf/Ou_est_donc_passe_le_Moyen-Age.pdf

>>3046903
>>3046909
>>3046916
>>3046926
>>3046928
so did all these frenchmen get fucked by Germanics/Celts during the middle ages or why did the medieval french often depict themselves as blond/red haired?
protip: possibly the franks were actually germanics

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>>3046928
The king in your pic is not blonde

Now it is my turn to post pic

>>3046939
can you answer that >>3046938 ?

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>>3046938
They fucked saxon women and lost their racial purity

Pic related Louis XIII didn't tho

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Franks were described as swarthy by their contemporaries which BTFO your entire theory

>>3046972
no, it doesn't: of course there were many brown/black haired frenchmen, but your theory of the pure franks/frenchmen of the middle ages relies entirely on them being not blond/red haired like germanics/celts.
>>3046953
this is an assumption

in conclusion: stop larping

>>3046978
I said that on another thread that 80% of the French were Franks, the blond haired 20% being Gauls/Saxons/Alans/Frisians/and so on

I never claimed that French race as a race is only composed of Franks onl

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Cherrypicking the few blonds that you can find is BIAISED

Pic related is what happen when you gather all the pics depicting the serfs and the nobility

>>3046989
ok then, if only the franks were these pure brown/black haired pannonians, how come this frankish nobleman was depicted as blond in 800?

stop larping
>>3046082

>>3047001
the region were he was depicted in 800 was conquered in 788 btw, so if he was the son of a frank mongrelizing with lombards (which is an assumption) this pic would depict a 12 year old with a beard...

stop larping

>>3047001
As i explained above, he is most likely some kind of mongrel

His father was outside of his country and all the blond haired lombard women were ready to be fucked so he mongrelized and produced this blond haired abomination

Historians usually distinguish between them by calling everything up to the treaty of Verdun Franks, and everything after the election of Hugh Capet French, with some interchangeable use of both terms during the century and a half in between.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense though. The people didn't change at that time, and continued to be referred to as Franks in their own time for many more centuries. Meanwhile it confuses Merovingian and Carolingian Franks, who are the inhabitants of the whole Frankish realm, with ancient Franks starting from the 3rd century, who were a Germanic tribal confederation and thus something very different.

What would make a lot more sense would be to refer to the tribal confederation as Franks, and refer to the people of France as French starting with Clovis and the unification of Gaul.

>>3047022
you rely on assumptions once again...
stop larping, your theory doesn't make sense

>>3046972
they sound like black people

>>3047001
>stop larping

It is you that is LARPing

You're Northmen at most but you have nothing to do with us


"But in the end with God's help the Christians had the victory. It is said that NORTHEMEN OF A BEAUTY AND SIZE OF BODY NEVER BEFORE SEEN AMONG THE FRANKISH PEOPLE were killed in this battle."
-Eginhard, Annals of Fulda, Year 884

>>3047040
His father mongrelized with Gauls or Gemans and it's all

The core of the Franks/French is still brown haired and dark haired

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>>3047047
OK man: you believe that your people is 80% frank, a tribe which according to you stems from pannonia and is neither germanic nor blond ("nordic"). Your evidence is one roman gravestone from pannonia that mentions franks and the fact that in one frankish grave, weapons akin those of pannonian avars were found. Also you cite one or two books all the time that only support your statements partly.

When people disagree with you and show indications that don't match with your thesis, like the fact that franks and their descendants were definitely not solely brown/black haired, you either start insulting them or come up with new assumptions on top of your initial thesis.

Do you seriously believe that is enough evidence to dismiss a narrative held by the overwhelming majority of historians, and that is backed by all these sources on just one of it's wikipedia articles alone?

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If pure Franks have dark brown hair and eyes, then why is it that the origin of the empire (Belgium, Southern Netherlands, bits of Germany) have a relatively high percentage of blondes compared to France?
And how did they end up speaking Franconian languages?

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>>3047094
>and that is backed by all these sources on just one of it's wikipedia articles alone?


You're confusing something here

My sources aren't wikipedia pages unlike you but academics sources


iFurthermmore the DNA of the Franks is not Germanic but ANATOLIANS

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>>3047111
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/frankish_influence_modern_europe.shtml#Origin

no need for wikipedia

where does it say anatolian, exactly?

>>3047110
> it that the origin of the empire

The origin of the Empire is in France

Merovingian capitals were all French cities, namely,oSissons Orleans, Reims and Paris

>>3047111
your own source says the franks were a west germanic people

i think you're just trolling, aren't you?

>>3047119
These are BENELUX DNA not Frankish DNA

Mine are actual Frankish DNA

END YOURSELF BLONDUCK LARPING FAGGOT

>>3047126

Why are you avoiding my question, how do you explain that the Franks are 100% J2 while Germanic are 1-4% J2

>>3047132
The site you cite (eupedia) calls them a west germanic people...

>>3047024
>What would make a lot more sense would be to refer to the tribal confederation as Franks, and refer to the people of France as French starting with Clovis and the unification of Gaul.

There was no France in the sense of today, the Frankish Empire included large areas inhabited by Germanic speaking people in present-day Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany. Referring to them as French is absurd. Furthermore, Franks as a Germanic tribal entity still existed during the time of Clovis in Gaul, Lex Salica makes a distinction between them and the Romance speaking majority. The West Frankish language, the branch of Frankish spoken by (segments of) the Frankish upper class in present day France, is thought to have died out in the 9th or 10th century.

>>3047144
Your own map shows that france have on average 5-10% j2 while wiki says that haplogroup is only present in middle east , turkey and southern balkan

What you say doesn't make sense, i'm sorry

>>3046972
>1185AD

>>3047120
The origin, aka the Frankish empire in 481 looks really Belgian to me tbqh

>>3047160

Obviously the Franks weren't just J2
I'm just pointing out that the Frankish DNA that we show a non Germanic origin and confirm what i was saying since the beginning

>>3047157
>, Lex Salica makes a distinction between

Lex Salica was written in Semi French Latin by French

You're merely lowly mongrels that we conquered,


>the Frankish upper class in present day France
No such thing as Frankish upper class

But you were indeed ruled by a French nobility


Verden is the sweetest day of my life and the rape of modern Germany fulfil my deepest desire

^

>>3045625
'So called' just means that they were called like that. Maybe learn English?

>>3047120
Just accepted the fact that your ancestors got FRANKED by Germanics

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>>3047169
>Frankish empire
There is no such thing as Frankish empire

The name of our kingdom was Regnum Francorum aka Kingdom of the French

>>3047183
>Lex Salica
Was written in Latin like most documents of the time and contains a few Germanic fragments

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>>3047203

Semi-French latin written your French overlords

>>3047203
Yes, and Lex Salica apart from being clearly a Germanic set of laws also explicitly differs between Germanic Franks and Gallo-romans, clearly discriminating the Gallo-Romans in favor of the Franks.
OP is one sad little autistic twat, he goes against well established facts of history and would get laughed out of every university in France, yet here he finds his audience.
>muh they where not blonde
>muh Pannonia

>>3047233
>French overlords
>discriminate Gallo-Romans
>cements the power of the Germanic upper class
Hey, you just spent another beautiful summer day home alone in front of your computer trying to argue some shit no one will ever believe.
Visit a shrink, maybe meds can help make your life less shit.

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>>3047256
>>3047263


You sounds butthurt, lad

Is this because we bombed Lybia and Syria alliowing the non-whites to rape their way through your countries ?

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>>3047277
Not really, your autism just hurts. Also, nice changing subjects when your {{{arguments}}} hit a dead end again.
>guess what country in Europe is most mudslime infected

>>3047298


>>guess what country in Europe is most mudslime infected
Germany

2 million enter your country every year and they're doing what we did to you during Middle age which mean ruthless rape :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRtMrJ34b7A

>>3045391
Stop mentioning the Franks, there's a "French" autist always something on how they were not Germanic and actually as swarthy looking as southern Italians. He's an idiot that should not be discussed with.

>>3047233
There are different transcripts of the Lex Salica, some written in the Merovingian era while most others were written in the 8th and 9th century. Obciously the latter, when written down by a Romanic scriptor, would contain some characteristics of Old French. Doesn't change anything about the Germanic glosses.

>>3047344
> "French" autist always something on how they were not Germanic and actually as swarthy looking as southern Italians.

It's not me that say it but Eginhard, a Frank himself and their contemporaries

see >>3046972>>3047047
>>3047446
>There are different transcripts of the Lex Salica

And all are in Semi French Latin; the only difference is the number of tituli
>Doesn't change anything about the Germanic glosses.


>A gloss (from Latin glossa; from Greek γλῶσσα (glóssa), meaning 'language') is a brief notation, especially a marginal one or an interlinear one, of the meaning of a word or wording in a text. It may be in the language of the text, or in the reader's language if that is different.

So you admit that your language and the language of the Salian French is different

Good

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>>3045391

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>>3046770
>If the so called Frankish language existed, where the text wrote in it ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergakker_inscription

>>3047256
I created the thread to dismiss his theory.
>>3047277
>>3047308
You have problems man, you're larping and don't even talk about history but come up with /pol/ tier bs so i guess that's were you might be better off.
>>>/pol/

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>>3045391
Never ever, Franks

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>>3048377
Bergakker is in the Betuwe aka the Country of the Batavians

It is a Batavian inscription not a French one


>>3048630
>dismiss his theory

You didn't dismiss anything, gayrmanic friend

>>3047120
Doornik?

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>>3048987
>Doornik

You mean Tournai, a French city

You can also mention Cambrai which is a French city too

Or also Héristal , homeland of the Carolingians, which also a French city

Even back then when we have yet to conquer Gaul, we still inhabited French speaking zone
Dutch-larping is sad

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>>3046770

The oldest Frankish text was written in runes and dates back from 425-450. It was found on a scabbard in Bergakker (Netherlands). As said before the important laws were written in Latin, because it was important for the whole empire and not just for the Franks themselves.

>>3049041
>). As said before the important laws were written in Latin, because it was important for the whole empire and not just for the Franks themselves.

NO

At the time of the Merovingian and Carolingian French, law was tribal

If you were a Roman you followed Roman law, and if you were a Salian French you followed the Salic Law

The Salic Law was only used by Salian French and only intented for us

>>3049030
>>3049050
>Things i don't like aren't real

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>>3049068
>implying Tournai, Cambrai, and Heristal aren't French cities
You're in denial, Jan

>>3049030
I don't want to mention Tournai was a Frankish speaking town at the time of the Franks, but it was. (During these days the language barrier was in Artois/Atrecht) And now it's a town in Belgium, not in France. The only time Tournai was in France was during first empire and when Louis XIV tried to conquer it, but failed. Same can be said for Cambrai, although that's French managed to conquer that town. My family had to flee from Cambrai with other families after French annexation, so I don't think the people there did feel themselves French around that time.

>>3045391
Without reading further I can already sense that this thread is about we wuz french and we wuz germans because that's the only thing /his/ cares about. Really interesting discussion

>>3049116
>During these days the language barrier was in Artois/Atrecht)

WE

>And now it's a town in Belgium, not in France.

WUZ

>so I don't think the people there did feel themselves French around that time.

FRANSE RATTEN
My god your lie are so hilarious, shall i remind you again you call Walloons

Kek

>>3049124
It may be hilarious, but those are facts, not lies. When you doesn't agree with facts there's nothing I can do for you. We only call the French Franse ratten. The walloon have actual Frankish heritage,

>>3049133
>The walloon have actual Frankish heritage
Indeed, the Wallons they the same blood with us, as opposed to Batavianiggers know as Flamerdes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck7LRzXKkkk

>>3049162
If you entirely have heritage from the territory of the former Lotharingian lands or Flanders/Artois. Then you have a lot of Frankish blood. Otherwise you're just another Gaul.

>>3047157

>There was no France in the sense of today, the Frankish Empire included large areas inhabited by Germanic speaking people in present-day Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany. Referring to them as French is absurd.
19th century France included Alsace-Moselle and French Flanders, does that mean that referring to 19th century French people as French is also "absurd"?

>Furthermore, Franks as a Germanic tribal entity still existed during the time of Clovis in Gaul
Yes obviously, since Clovis was the head of that tribe before he conquered Gaul. But then it disappeared instantly as Clovis was no longer tribal chieftain but king of the new realm of France, and any sort of distinction between Franks and Gallo-Romans dissolved within a generation or two.

>The West Frankish language, the branch of Frankish spoken by (segments of) the Frankish upper class in present day France, is thought to have died out in the 9th or 10th century.
No it isn't, where on Earth did you get this from? The upper class in the West already spoke Old French same as the rest of the population since Merovingian times.

this book is the memetical red pill on the Franks:
https://www.scribd.com/document/106343138/Frans-J-Los-The-Franks

>>3049124
Are you going to explain why he is wrong or is name calling the only thing you can come up with?

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>>3049174
>Frankish blood

No such thing as Frankish blood

There is French blood, and Flemish don't have it

You're blond haired Gauls and you should accept your ancestors and you thanks the heaven that we didn't end your race out of kindness

>>3049197
No, he's not.

>>3049197
He is literally claiming that French area were Germanic without proving anything

It is him that is claiming something so it is him that need to back up his claim

French people are really the ultimate mongrels. And they're trying to trace their ancestry to those people they probably have the least in common with: their Germanic overlords.

>>3049401
Except for the aristocrats. See Boulainvilliers proto-racialist history of France, as well as de Gobineau's Essay on Inequality.

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>>3049401
>French people are really the ultimate mongrels

You whish, cuck

Now go mongrelize further with the tanned germans

>Boulainvilliers
>An asrologue
My god i know that Germongrels were dumb but you reached a new height

>>3049441
Pas cet anon, couillon.
Les ouvrages d'astronomie de Boulainvilliers ont plus d'importance que ses écrits sur l'astrologie, mon pauvre Wikipedien.

Du reste, il s'agit, dans ce fil, de son Essai sur la noblesse de France.

File: we was franks.jpg (421KB, 1374x994px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3049401

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>>3049482
Clovis in your pic has black hair

Try again, Hans

>>3049450
Boulainvilliers n'a jamais parlé des francs en décrivant les origines de la noblesse, il a toujours affirmé qu'elle était je cite "françoyse" et pas "franche/franque"

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>>3049503
Il est clair que francais et francs sont synonymes dans l'oeuvre de Boulainvilliers. photo a l'appui.

>>3049503
>has black hair
>implying hair color says anything about ethnicity or cultural allegiances.

>>3049517
Ces mots ne sont pas des synonymes selon l’historiographie française :)

Ce qui te laisse deux choix :

Soit tu reconnais le fait qu'ils sont synonymes et donc que les francs n'existent pas et que Clovis ainsi que tous les autres "francs" étaient des Français,

Soit tu admets qu'ils ne sont pas synonymes et que la noblesse n'est pas franque.

>>3049558
Germanic are blond/redhaired, therefore they(Franks) aren't Germanic

>>3049564
>voir la photo plus haut.
Nous parlons de l'usage du mot dans l'oeuvre de Boulainvilliers, pour qui ces deux mots sont clairement des synonymes, du moins dans un certain contexte.

>>3049564
Now you just went full retard.

The sad thing about this thread is that due to the events of the migration era, most if not breeding stock for the French nobility was of Germanic origin.
From the time of Clovis' conquest on the upper nobility was of Frankish stock, they put the Salian law into effect to keep themselves in power and make sure the Gallo-Roman population is in check.
From then on, all major dynasties, including the Capetians, where t least originally of Frankish stock. They ruled France and lived in palaces, whilst their Gallo-Roman subjects worked the fields for them.
This system was in effect until the French Revolution 1789.
>France is the most germed country
>ever

>>3049605
>this makes the fr*nch cuck cry

>>3049564
Please tell me also how a typical slav looked like, I want to laugh too.

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>>3049811
Indeed i'm crying

We dominated for centuries the poor Dutch and Flemish, we took their land, killed their women and women

I'm ashamed of the deeds of my ancestors

>>3049848

"Phenotype of old Slavs, 6th to 10th centuries", by Łukasz M. Stanaszek.

I. Byzantine sources:

1. Procopius of Caesarea (6th century):

- "(...) Valerian chose one of the Sklaveni who are men of mighty stature. (...)"

- "(...) Nay further, they do not differ at all from one another in appearance. For they are all exceptionally tall and stalwart men, while their bodies and hair are neither very fair or very blonde, nor indeed do they incline entirely to the dark type, but they are slightly ruddy in color. (...)"

2. Theophilact Simokatta (describing events from year 595):

"(...) The Emperor was with great curiosity listening to stories about this tribe, he has welcomed these newcomers from the land of barbarians, and after being amazed by their height and mighty stature, he sent these men to Heraclea. (...)"

3. Theophanes the Confessor (describing the same event from year 595):

"(...) The Emperor was admiring their beauty and their stalwart stature. (...)"

4. Pseudo-Maurice (Strategikon) - late 6th century / early 7th century:

"(...) Tribes of Sclaveni and Antes (...) are very resistant to hardships, they easily endure both heat and cold, rain and lack of garment. (...)"

5. Constantine Porphyrogennetos (10th century):

About ancestors of Balkan Croats and ancestors of Balkan Serbs:

"(...) their ancestors were Pagan Croats and Serbs, known also as White [Croats and Serbs]. Great Croatia, called also White [Croatia], until today is still Pagan, just like neighbouring [Lusatian / West Slavic] Serbs [Sorbs] (...)"

>>3047540
>And all are in Semi French Latin; the only difference is the number of tituli

You have failed to prove this

>So you admit that your language and the language of the Salian French is different

That's not a valid conclusion either

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>>3049904
>You have failed to prove this

Pic related

>>3049904
You are taking a nutcase (pic related >>3045979
) seriously and try to argue with him. That makes you kinda stupid, as you will achieve nothing except giving frenchfag a platform to present his bullshit.

If you must know, most of the shit frenchfag is presenting is 12th & 19th century history falsification, both periods when the Frenchies had problems admitting their germanic heritage.

In the end, academic consensus is that the Franks were crystal clear Germanic and frenchfags theories would at best make somebody smile, but no one takes this crap seriously.

Look again at >>3045979, do you really want to discuss medieval conspiracy theories with a delusional autist? Good luck.

>every history book in use in France will tell you the Franks where Germanics
>every history teacher in France will tell you that
>every archaeologist will tell you that
>every University in France will tell you that

>autistic /his/ frenchfag will tell you muh blonde phenotype, muh swarty phenotype
>and the fun thing, he is dead serious about it

Wow, just when you thought /his/ was getting boring.

>Franks are not Germanic
I usually know conspiracy stuff, but I admit this is new to me.

>>3049996
>>every history book in use in France will tell you the Franks where Germanics
>>every history teacher in France will tell you that
>>every archaeologist will tell you that
>>every University in France will tell you that

France is an Anti-French shithole owned by kikes, so it is an accurate source

>>3050083
>so it is an accurate source
so it is NOT an accurate source*

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>>3050083
>>>every history book in use in France will tell you the Franks where Germanics
in the name of diversity, yes, of course.

>>3050083
>>3050084
Alright, fuck off to >>>/pol/ now

>>3049925

Does not say anything about all versions

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>>3050083
>>every history book in use in France will tell you the Franks where Germanics
>>>every archaeologist will tell you that

By the way, you're wrong

Actual historians and books will tell you pic related

>>3050173

And?

>>3047132


>Louis XIV of France belonged to Y haplogroup R1b (U106).[59]

Also "BeNeLux-DNA"?

>>3050149
Read that and stop pestering me
https://archive.org/stream/lexsalicatentex03kerngoog#page/n14/mode/2up

>>3050208
And Louis XVI belonged to G and Merovingians to J2


>>3050195
It say that the Franks are just an old name of the French, THUS Franks aren't Germanic

>>3050235

I dont know why I was expecting a better comback from you.

>>3049875
According to this picture the Franks are Gaulish and the Gauls are Frankish. Lothair was the king of Lotharingia. Lower Lotharingia is a synonym for the Low Countries and Lotharingia was meant to be the homeland of the Franks. This picture is just ridiculous. Don't forget that most Dutch and Flemish have brown hair.

>>3050218

Read it, found no arguments.

>>3050235

>Merovingians to J2

No, they just found three individuals that were J2

>>3050245
>>3049977

>>3050266
>Read it, found no arguments.
If you did read it you would now know that the Lex Salica manuscripts are divided into five families and that the only difference between them isn't the language but in the number of titulis

Obviously you didn't read anything

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>>3050260
>. Don't forget that most Dutch and Flemish have brown hair.

No

They have blond hair and the ones that do have dark hair have French ancestry coming from the Hugenots

And you're also not the descendants of the Franks because your country was no depopulated enough unlike ours to allow a demographic shift

Gaul was depopulated to 80% while Belgium merely around 60%

>>3050288
You're just ridiculous. You clearly have never been to the Low Countries and you'll never start to accept the history of France. Just have a long and frustrating live without bothering me.

>>3050288
You are aware this entire article is pure speculation, right? Even the second word in the title is "possible" for god's sake

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>>3050321
>pure speculation,

Depopulation is attested (pic related)

And you don't go from the "Almost all Gauls are blond and tall" of Ammianus Marcellinus to the "Franks are swarthy and robust" of Nicetas wihtout a demographic shift

>>3050276
>only difference between them isn't the language but in the number of titulis

Where does it say that? Considering that they differ in content it is hard to believe

>>3050347
They do not differ in content

You need to understand first that the Salic Law is basically a condensate of Frankish customs

The oldest and original Law was about 65 tituli (or customs) as the time went several more customs were added. By the way, the manuscript with the Old Dutch gloses aren't the oldest.

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>>3050347
>>3050379
Forgot the pic

>>3050337
>Depopulation is attested
Sure, but to what degree is highly questionable. Also notice how it mentions "northern ghaul" in your own article and not "ghaul". So that doesn't mean all the ghauls in France went up into smoke and were somehow replaced by Franks.
And even if you managed to kill off all the ghauls and replace them with Franks, how do you explain that modern French is a latin and not a Germanic one?
How do you explain that the Franconian languages are Dutch and some German dialects and not French?
But i guess some cherry picked quotes and medieval paintings make more sense

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>>3050382
I still see no proof of the claim that all manuscripts contain "semi-French" characteristics. But even if, it would not mean anything since the oldest surviving manuscript of the Merovingian versions was written in 770; it is no surprise if we find some Old French like corruptions of the Latin text there since the scriptors spoke that language themselves

>>3050414
>how do you explain that modern French is a latin and not a Germanic one?

Simple

Franks spoke Latin and it is proved by the fact that they wrote in Sami-French Latin their customs. As for the Franks in Fraconia, they just adopted the Thuringian dialect of their subjects(Fraconian is related to Thuringian btw)


The Flemish and Dutch as i said above aren't Franks but blond haired Gauls and Saxons

>>3050443
Majority of England has brown hair yet are of mostly Celtic/Saxon blood

Why didn't charlemagne or any other frankish/french ruler conquered Brittany until the union?

>>3050443
>The Flemish and Dutch as i said above aren't Franks but blond haired Gauls and Saxons
do you even believe what you're saying

>>3050443
That's why the Frankish rulers had Germanic names and French contains a ton of Germanic words?

>>3050443
So even though the Franks settled first in the low countries, they left no traces whatsoever as they all moved to France, where they completely replaced the gaulish population. Then they decided to speak Latin because of reasons, then suddenly Gauls and Saxons spawned into the low countries again and decided to speak a Franconian language that has nothing to do with the Franks?
What the fuck dude

>>3050476
>That's why the Frankish rulers had Germanic names

Early Frankish rulers carry Celtic names Sunno and Samo and French have Germanic names since the beginning, my own lastname is Germanic


>and French contains a ton of Germanic words?

When we migrated from Pannonia we went through Germany and were heavily influenced by Germanic, it is all.

>>3050461
Britons were mostly dark haired Silures from Iberia, Tacitus said it in his Agricola


>>3050497
You're caricaturing my opinion

>>3050554
>French have Germanic names since the beginning, my own lastname is Germanic
If Franks weren't Germanic and just despised and "vanquished" Germanics (as you put it previously) why would they adopt their apparently inferior opponent's names?

>You're caricaturing my opinion
How else should he summarize a theory like your's? It doesn't make sense.

>>3050554

>Early Frankish rulers carry Celtic names

No they don't, and you did not even show how the two names you listed are Celtic.

>When we migrated from Pannonia we went through Germany and were heavily influenced by Germanic

Seems odd that such a migration would leave such a heavy lexical imprint to the point where most names of the Franks become Germanic.

Frenchfag, could you please trip or namefag. You are highly annoying and this way people can filter you easily.
Thanks for understanding.

>>3051673
This

File: maxresdefault.jpg (123KB, 1533x961px) Image search: [Google]

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NEW QUESTION (so we can forget frenchfag):

Who is more Frankish, the Flemish or the Dutch?

>>3052587
Aren't they like the same?

>>3054211
No man, one's catholic the other protestant. Flemish people can understand the Dutch, but the Dutch can't understand the Flemish.

>>3052587
I'm probably a bit biased but i'd say the Flemish/southern Dutch/northern France

>>3054430
A large part of the Netherlands is catholic as well. As for understanding that entirely depends on the dialect. I don't think someone from north Brabant has a problem understanding someone from east Flanders for example

>>3054430
Well the reformation happened a literal thousand years after the Franks so I don't see how that's relevant

the wewuzery in this thread is amazing. and I thought us balkanites were the worst.

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>>3052587
>>3054430
>>3054539
None of you obviously

>>3055064
Larper, please do that >>3051673

or answer these posts
>>3050750
>>3050768

File: Black Haired Frankish Christ.jpg (234KB, 1019x645px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3055106
>Be French
>Your country is France
>Get called larper

You should stop calling me "French" first, cause it is just the modern version of "Frencisc" which mean Frank in Old English


Are you mad m8 ?

>>3055156
>I don't answer questions so I win the argument

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>>3055175
We adopted the language of our Germanic serfs but it was only temporary

>>3055226
OK, so why would one great people like the Franks adopt the language of such unworthy barbarians when other powerful Empires that conquered foreign peoples didn't? Did the Romans start talking Celtic when they conquered Gaul, or did the Spanish start talking Nahuatl when they conquered Mexico? Or did the French start talking African languages during colonization? Afaik West Africa is speaking French because, you know, the occupying power is dominant...

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>>3054430
>Flemish people can understand the Dutch, but the Dutch can't understand the Flemish.

Not true at all.

>>3052587
I'd say the flemish area would probably be more of the core Frankish area, since it has been part of the Frankish Empire since they invaded the Roman Empire, while a big part of the Netherlands (mainly Holland and the Provinces north of the Salland region) were not for quite a while.

>>3055253
We were always kind and gentlemen so we adopted the langage of the land that we inhabited but we never mixed with the natives because racial purity was always sacred

>>3055283
lol, so why did you "rape and vanquish" the "Gay?rmanics" in the east?

Do you even believe the bs you spout?

>>3055291
Love can be harsh

>>3055311
Do you seriously believe in your own theory when you constantly have to make shit up to support it?

>>3055317
i'm pretty sure this thread is one big joke

>>3055341
I discussed the origin of Franks with the French guy in another thread and he's really persistent with his theory of Franks being Non-Germanics from Pannonia.
I created the thread because I found it interesting but it really doesn't make sense.
Either he's a giant troll or really really autistic.

>>3055317
Jokes aside

I do believe that the Franks are from Pannonia because their presence there was reported by several historians

As for their language, i accept the Franconian theory, but i do believe that the Salian Franks at the time they moved into Gaul spoke Latin because they wrote several inscriptions/texts in Latin, and several Salians were heavily romanized.

itt: wewuzzers arguing with untrustworthy personal accounts and random medieval art

do a genome study, you ignorant asshats

>>3055378
Without these jokes your theory doesn't add up, though. This whole racial purity/hair color thing I dismissed with that Carolingian Frankish nobleman with blond hair, you made up a story how he has to be a mongrel. Your infograph was very inaccurate, claiming that Germanics settled only in modern Germany, Scandinavia and Poland when there was a thing called Migration Period. The statements you made with genetics didn't match the sources you cited, and when you criticised Wikipedia you used a source (Eupedia) that itself considers the Franks a West Germanic people.

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>>3055428
>I dismissed with that Carolingian Frankish nobleman
You didn't dismiss anything you just showed one noble, and it is not even proved that he was Frankish

On other hand i proved how the Frankish high nobilitty(Carolingian) was dark haired

>The statements you made with genetics didn't match the sources you cited
False

J2(see Roel Lauwerier 2014) G2a, and R1b(see Vanek 2009) are attested as a Merovingian haplogroups .


>you used a source (Eupedia) that

I used a map not a source

When it comes to Frankish genetics i used the
http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/medievaldna.shtml
https://www.academia.edu/10159018/2014._Het_Merovingisch_grafveld_The_Merovingian_cemetery_in_R.C.G.M._Lauwerier_and_J.W._De_Kort_2014_Merovingers_in_een_villa_2._Romeinse_villa_en_Merovingisch_grafveld_Borgharen_-_Pasestraat._Onderzoek_2012._Amersfoort_Rapportage_Archeologische_Monumentenzorg_222_211-220

>(Eupedia) that itself considers the Franks a West Germanic people.

Lol no
pic relatedv

>>3055488
>On other hand i proved how the Frankish high nobilitty(Carolingian) was dark haired
On other hand, i proved that the Frankish high nobility(Carolingian) was dark haired

>J2(see Roel Lauwerier 2014) G2a, and R1b(see Vanek 2009) are attested as a Merovingian haplogroups .
J2(see Lauwerier 2014), G2a, and R1b(see Vanek 2009) are attested in Merovingian graves.


>pic relatedv
pic related
FIXED

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>>3055488
>>(Eupedia) that itself considers the Franks a West Germanic people.

Lol no

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/frankish_influence_modern_europe.shtml#Origin

you can also see their genetics in the link.

>>3055534
>Lol no
Ignoring the part about Latin

Being in denial will not change anything

>you can also see their genetics in the link.
Once again it is not their genetic, but the Genetics of the BeNeLux

Actual Frankish DNA attested in Frankish graves is

>J2
which excludes the Dutch, Flemish, and Wallons

>G2a
which excludes, the Dutch, Flemish and Walloon

>R1b
French have the most R1b, then the Walloons, then Flemish, then Dutch

Note that match this the depopulation of Gaul,

Since Belgica was 60% depopulated, the Franks weren't able to fully replace the entire population there, while in Nothern Gaul (depopulated to 80%) the Franks easily repalced the natives, and it is why France became the core power of the Kingdom of the Franks and why French where the only ones to that are still called Franks today

>>3055568
I never claimed the Franks didn't merge together with Gallic and Roman people and culture, it is you who ignores what is written literally in the first sentence of your source.

But I guess there's no point in debating you if your own sources contradict you.

>>3055568

>Once again it is not their genetic, but the Genetics of the BeNeLux
Once again, it is not THEIR genetics, but the genetics of the BeNeLux

>Actual Frankish DNA attested in Frankish graves is
ACTUAL attested Frankish DNA, which mean found in Merovingian graves is :


>Note that match this the depopulation of Gaul,
Note that this match the depopulation of Gaul


>why French where the only ones to that are still called Franks today
why French were the only ones that are still called Franks today
FTFM

>>3055579
I already admited the Franconian Theory, the only thing that i do not admit is that they originate in Germany

West Germanic people is not Ok
West Germanic people originating from Pannonia is Ok

>>3055596
Former West Germanic people originating from Pannonia is better btw

>>3055596
Your own source says they originate from Belgium plus they spoke Germanic languages in the beginning plus they share genetics with Germanics.... Just click the link and see what the site you referred to has to say.

Also you still didn't explain why they would adopt Germanic languages if they came from Pannonia...

>>3055625
>Your own source
It is you that is quoting Eupedia since the start, as for myself, i used a map from Eupedia that's all
For the History of the Franks i only usse primary sources : History of Franks of Gregory of Tours, the Chronicon Paschale, and so on

For the Genetics of the Franks i do not use Eupedia but actual genetic studies like :

https://www.ghi-dc.org/fileadmin/user_upload/GHI_Washington/Publications/Bulletin52/bu52_037.pdf

>>3055643
> https://www.ghi-dc.org/fileadmin/user_upload/GHI_Washington/Publications/Bulletin52/bu52_037.pdf

Wrong link
http://www.cmj.hr/2009/50/3/19480023.htm
https://cultureelerfgoed.nl/sites/default/files/publications/lauwerier_2014_ram_222_merovingers_in_een_villa_2.pdf

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"...Franci iidem qui Germani dicebantur"

"The Franks who are sometimes called the Germanics"

"Wandali...in Germanos irruunt, qui nunc Franci dicuntur..."

"The Vandals rushed into the Germanics, who are now called Franks"

"Francis...omnes autem istae ad Rhenum Nationes quaeque suo nomine censentur; at commune universis Germanorum vocabulum est"

"The Franks...all these Nations who live at the Rhine are counted under this name. But all have the designation as Germanics in common"

By Agathias and Prokop

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>>3055809
All the Romans who then lived in Gaul were extermoinated at that time by Clodoveus, such that scarcely one could be found. Also, the Franks seem to have learned the Roman tongue in those days, from the Romans who had been living there, which tongue they use up till today. As for what had been their native tongue before, it is not known in those parts.


Omnesque Romanos tunc, qui tunc in Gallia habitabant, exterminavit Clodoueus ut unus vix potuisset inveniri.
Et videtur Franci illis temporibus linguam Romanam, qua usque hodie utuntur ab illis Romanis qui ibi habitaverant didicisse. Quae autem eis prius naturalis lingua fuerit, ignorateur in partibus istis.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I JUST DISCOVERED THIS TEXT


WE KILLED ALL ROMANS, AND WE ALWAYS SPOKE LATIN

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


EXTERMINAT'D

GENOCID'D

HAULOCAUST''D

FRENCH'D

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>>3055861
ok, don't you like "contemporary" sources aka the one >>3055809 cited? You just come up with a modern historians book...

Also it is known which language the Franks spoke, you put up a pic from Eupedia that explains it prior.

Also
>WE
>WUZ

>>3055889
I don't care

We killed all romans, claim all you want HISTORY IS ON MY SIDE
ALL THE ROMANS WHO THEN LIVED IN GAUL WERE KILLED at that time by Clodoveus, such that scarcely one could be found. Also, the Franks seem to have learned the Roman tongue in those days, from the Romans who had been living there, which tongue they use up till today. As for what had been their native tongue before, it is not known in those parts.

>>3047111
This. Shit's weird.

>>3045433
typical white boys

>>3047111
>map shows Bavaria and a part of Scandinavia with the color as France

>>3055861
>All the Romans who then lived in Gaul were extermoinated at that time by Clodoveus

That is claimed by a FIFTEENTH century gloss, according to your screencap. Not a particularly credible source

>>3055909
look at these Germanic pronounciations, the French language is different from other Latin languages, that's because of Germanic influence.
Also, you didn't kill anyone, you're just some Frenchman larping as Pannonian.
You can quote a (((German))) historian who was born in 1965 all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that the people who founded your country were originally Germanic.

>>3056018
It is a transmited tradition

No wonder that Gaul so much depopulated, we're a warrior race after all

Truely, these lowly blondcucks didn't stand a chance


>>3056030
Our country was founded by ourselves


Your country was founded by Prussians aka Poles, Hans

Franks were Germanic

its that simple

/thread

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>>3056066
OK man, I love France but you're just too autistic.
>we're a warrior race after all

File: 8408228d14f76ccddbc981958c2068c6.jpg (642KB, 2418x1892px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3056094
You cowardly attacked us after we were exhausted by decades of wars against the ENTIRE WORLD

Now if go to war we will exterminate you like we did for the Romans

>>3050266
>just three nobles with Anatolian parental DNA, nothing to see here

anon it's weird and out of place

File: Franco-German Brigade.jpg (3MB, 4557x2511px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3056117
yeah, our countries will surely fight. Which side is the Franco-German Brigade fighting on?
Welcome to reality, LARPer...

>>3056156
Once France and the French Race will be on the brink of destruction like it was during the Revolution our Frankish blood will awaken again

This time, we will not spread Republic but Catholic Monarchy

File: frankish blood.jpg (71KB, 700x500px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3056171
go to bed, LARPer

File: Francophone_Africa.png (14KB, 360x388px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3056181
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHQTMVlTI3w

Go to bed nigger

PS : Don't forget to send your ressources or we will topple your gov like we did in Ivory Coast

>>3056198
Another example were the victors forced their language upon the defeated, which is why the victorious (((Pannonian))) Franks started talking Germanic...

>>3056198
Avoid Golden Dinar too or else we will topple your gov like we did for Libya

>>3056066
>It is a transmited tradition

No, it's the misunderstanding of a fifteenth century scriptor. A genocide of Gallo-Romans is not supported by contemporary sources (Pro-tip: A decline of the population as it happened in all regions of the former Roman Empire doesn't mean that Gauls were genocided either).

>>3056266
Gayllo-roma are dead, we killed them all, in my vein lie untarnished Frankish blood

We did the same for (((they))) too
>Quare rex Philippus christianissimus EXTERMINAVIT Judeos de tôt a Francia hic ponitur prima causa.

>Iste Heraclius scripsit Dagoberto excellen-
tissimo régi Francorum, ut omnes Judeos de regno suo
EXTERMINARET

>ipsa ecclesia, protegens eam ab inimicis et defendens,
EXTERMINANDO Judeos fidei christiane inimicos,
French can only be great if they are Catholic, else they degenerate in self hating cuck like >>3056156

>>3056308
Exterminare means to bannish, which is what happened to the French Jews under the reign of Phillip the II in the 12th century. That's got nothing to do with Franks and Gauls though, it seems like you're not even trying anymore to not appear completely retarded

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>>3052587
GEE I WONDER

File: Exterminare.png (225KB, 618x622px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3056354
Not so fast

>>3052587
Dutch (the actual Dutch of Holland) are closer to the Frisians.

File: Rhaeto-Romance_languages_now_and_1200_years_ago..png (69KB, 593x481px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3049441

Germans are a bunch of non Germans who got Germanized.

>>3057089
Holland has been colonized by Flanders and Brabant for centuries (from the 16th-century to modern times). The Hollanders with a lot of Frisian connections only live in the closed communities. But in some old villages Hollanders even have Viking surnames, although that's really rare.

So, OP assuming what you say is true and Franks aren't Germanic at all, why did French scholars themselves claim this? Why is it supported by even the most patriotic Frenchman?
Why did this become the scientific consensus?

>>3059598
>why did French scholars themselves claim this?
French hold diverse opinion

But the Frenchness of the Franks is recognized by most of them, barely anyone claim that they were Germanic


>Why is it supported by even the most patriotic Frenchman?
Lol no

The most patriotic Frenchmen are the Catholic, which i am a part of, and they claim the Franks as French.

>Why did this become the scientific consensus?
Anglo/Germongrel/Kike influence

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>>3059598
Again, I created the thread because the discussion with the LARPer >>3045979 got off-topic and think his theory doesn't make sense.

>>3059623
>An antigermanic, antisemitic French guy who wants to be purely Frankish but doesn't accept their history...

I like you.

File: kike-burning.jpg (161KB, 631x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3059882
>antisemitic French
Spotted the kike

When France collapse there will be no place for you between the Arabs and the French and you will all be killed

>>3059899
no, I'm that Gayrm*nic autist who argued with you from the beginning.

btw is that really you in the pic?

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>>3059882
Ok, sorry. What's sad is that discussing Franks on /his/ is going to be shit from now on because of this meme.
You can't discuss Africa because "wewuz" and "why didn't Africa...", you can't discuss Scandinavians because "snownigger" memes...., now Franks.

File: Frankish armored rider.jpg (34KB, 400x537px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3059930
sure you can, the art is to ignore the turboautists

>>3059908
>no, I'm that Gayrm*nic autist who argued with you from the beginning.
If the Franks are Germanic how can their DNA be non-Germanic(g2a, j2, r1b) ?


http://www.cmj.hr/2009/50/3/19480023.htm
https://cultureelerfgoed.nl/sites/default/files/publications/lauwerier_2014_ram_222_merovingers_in_een_villa_2.pdf


If the Franks are Germanic how can their DNA be non Germanic ?

File: Genetics of the Franks.jpg (110KB, 785x219px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3059964
I can't open the pdf from your link, the source I have on their genetics fits the common narrative that Franks were an originally Germanic tribe that merged together with Celts and Romans (see link below).

What you still didn't respond to is why the superior Franks would actually adopt their subordinates Germanic languages if they truly were Pannonian, considering that other victorious people forced their culture upon the defeated.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/frankish_influence_modern_europe.shtml#Origin

>>3059973
Not him but not always. The romans defeated the greeks but the east romans still became greek.

File: Frankish DNA.png (613KB, 2258x2202px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3059973
>I can't open the pdf

How convenient ! Anyway, i gathered the important part for you


>What you still didn't respond to is why the superior Franks would actually adopt their subordinates Germanic languages if they truly were Pannonian, considering that other victorious people forced their culture upon the defeated.

As if i know

I'm only making conclusion using textual and genetics evidences

>>3059998
yes, because Greek civilization was still dominant in the East (also the Romans learned a lot from the Greeks previously, too), the Germanics had very little accomplishments compared to the Greeks, so it wouldn't make sense to adopt their culture. The LARPer previously stated how the Franks exterminated entire Germanic tribes. Did the Europeans adopt native languages when arriving in America or Africa?

>>3060011
alright, you've got one source in a language I don't master and don't care to master, I've got a source that fits the narrative of the overwhelming majority of historians and articles on the topic. Who should one believe?

So how did the Franks travel to Sardinia?

>>3049875
Not the guy you are replying to but don't you think it is a little odd how everyone refers to the Dutch as Germanic rather than Gaulish?

File: Haplogroup R1b.png (76KB, 687x443px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060049
this is not a /his/ meme marathon...

>>3060011
see these maps of haplogroups and tell me how they support your theory. I haven't read your entire point regarding the DNA found in this grave but still one gravesite isn't representative considering you claim the bulk of the modern French to be Frankish.

File: Haplogroup J.png (335KB, 1280x967px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060082

File: Haplogroup G.png (51KB, 643x454px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060087

>>3060059
Not really

After all, people call French : "French", and yet they think that we're Gauls

>>3060031
>Being in such denial

I don't know nederlandish either but it is obvious that their haplogroup is J2 and that merely 2.7% of the Dutch have this haplogroup

>>3060091
answer the questions or accept your little LARP fantasy is bullshit... how do these maps support your theory?

File: Geographical_distribution_of_haplogroup_frequency_of_hgR1b1b2.png (333KB, 4384x3505px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060087
Lumping J1 and J2 together

My god you clearly have no knowledge of Genetics, am i rite
>>3060082
This map was done by a non-genetician


Here is a genuine map about R1b (see Balaresque study)

>>3060109
funny, how come Celtic Ireland, Wales & Scotland and Germanic Iceland has about the same genetic makeup as your (((Pannonian))) Frankish West France?
How come Pannonia has a vastly different genetic makeup as your (((Pannonian))) Frankish West France?

File: Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png (71KB, 780x510px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060109
>R1b map
>not showing maghreb

>>3060117
Franks were Celts


>How come Pannonia has a vastly different genetic makeup as your (((Pannonian))) Frankish West France?

We don't

File: no difference.png (620KB, 4384x3505px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060143
>We don't

Yes, there's quite obviously a stark contrast in your own map.

see https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Roemischeprovinzentrajan.png
to compare with my little pic

>Franks were Celts
Yes, later they were heavily mixed with Celts. Accept that there were Roman influences and that they started as a Germanic people and you've overcome your autism.

File: Haplogroup-J2.jpg (124KB, 800x581px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060109
>Lumping J1 and J2 together

J2 is common in all European countries in smaller quantities, the frequency in France is not particularly high either. Three individuals on a Merovingian having J2 does not support your point.

>My god you clearly have no knowledge of Genetics, am i rite

As if you were an informed person, lel.

>Here is a genuine map about R1b

So? West-Germanic groups have high frequencies of R1b, especially U106-subclade (like Louis XIV).

>>3060166
>like Louis XIV

There is no DNA of Louis XIV

But we do have a DNA of Louis XVI and it is G2 :)

Anyway, explain how come the Franks have non Germanic DNA ????


WHERE ARE TYPICAL GERMANIC HAPLOGROUP LIKE I1 AND I2 ???

File: mitochondrial DNA haplogroup I.png (283KB, 1024x465px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060200
the maps clearly show accordances between typical Germanic countries and France, you just ignore what doesn't fit your view.

>>3060200
>TYPICAL
>GERMANIC
>HAPLOGROUP

File: Percentage_of_major_Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_Europe.png (865KB, 1960x1793px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060200
also checked, autist

File: gaplo I1-I2.jpg (112KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060220
>mitochondrial

You're now confusing Y-DNA and mtDNA


Pls stop embarassing yourself

>>3060200
>There is no DNA of Louis XIV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historic_people#Louis_XIV_of_France

>>3060200
>But we do have a DNA of Louis XVI and it is G2 :)

G2 can be found all over Europe in small quantities. What is this supposed to prove?

>WHERE ARE TYPICAL GERMANIC HAPLOGROUP LIKE I1 AND I2 ???

In West Germanic groups, R1b is more common than I1.

>>3060283
>West Germanic
>Germanic
Pick one

They are Germanized Celts and that's it

>>3060273
man you have one genetic feature that is shared rather with Celts than Germanics (but also with Germanics, see southern Germany). Every other map shows an obvious accordance with Germanic peoples.

>>3060296
Your theory is shit and you can't back it up, accept it.

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>>3060296
>Your theory is shit and you can't back it up, accept it.
t. Germanized Celts

German aren't a race anyway and you should accept it,

You're a mix of French, Poles and Danes

>>3060368
there are maps of the genetic makeup of Europe that clearly show my theory is bullshit?

>JUST IGNORE IT HAHA STUPID KIKE GAYRM*NIC BARBARIAN

fuck off now, the thread served its purpose.

>>3060296

R1b-U106 is a markedly Germanic haplotype which is rare in Celtic populations; subclades associated with Celts are not that uncommon amon West Germanic groups either (especially in South-West Germany) because the Germanics did absorb Celtic groups. But that noz the same as Celts just speaking a Germanic tongue.

How does that help your argument anyway?

File: German genetic history.png (266KB, 1062x788px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060386
Except you aren't U106(it is a Belgian Briton DNA by the way) but P312 aka French

>sybclades associated with Celts are not that uncommon amon West Germanic groups either
Nice denial pic related

>>3060384
Go be passive-aggressive somewhere else, dumb kike faggot

>>3060393
nobody claimed Germany was racially homogenous,it was the centre of Celtic culture in 500 BC, but the French population clearly has genetic features that show that they are partly Germanic, which is what falsifies your whole theory.

File: R1b-deepClade.png (105KB, 1160x816px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060393
>it is a Belgian Briton DNA by the way

No, it's associated with West Germanic peoples and can also be found in North Germanic peoples in significant quantities. It's rarer in the Celtic parts of the British isles (Wales, Ireland, Scotland) and more common in England.

>but P312 aka French

try again. Though North and West Germanic groups also did and do have P312 subcades, they're not all the result of the absorption of Celts.

Anyway, how does that help your original argument? Your original point was not 'Franks are not Germanic because West Germanics aren't Germanic'.

What the fuck are the arguments in this thread even about?

>>3045391
Why did Germany become the Empire and France just became France?

>>3045554
I doubt Caesar killed that many, considering Caesar is the main source of that number. Killed and enslaved was probably in the hundreds of thousands.

File: BRITON DNA.png (148KB, 1179x1675px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3060453
Too bad for you it was found in Britons, Saxons aka Germanic were I1


>>3061549
Romans did the same too Dacians and Jews

File: Edilfranko.png (149KB, 551x867px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3061534
Because France was mainly composed by French, so we had no need to turn into an empire, while Germany was Multi-Ethnic and was composed of numerous people (Saxons, Thuringians, Hessians, Franconians, French, Lombards, Venetians, Sorbs, Frisians, Bavarians, Alamanians, and so on)

French in Germany were merely a ruling nobility, and it is why they called us "Edilfranko" aka Noble Frank

Like the Pre Indo-European called their lord Aryans (masters)

>>3061566
>Too bad for you it was found in Britons, Saxons aka Germanic were I1
Yeah, two samples of a different subsubclade of U106. Look how few U106 there is in Wales or the Bretagne and how much more there is in England. There was a little bit of U106 in Britain before the Saxons, but most of it came with them.

>>3061607
>There was a little bit of U106 in Britain before the Saxons


PURE SPECULATION

The fact is that Britons carried U106(like all true Celts/Belgians) and Saxons carried I1(like all true Germanic)

>>3060925
There's a Frenchfag
>>3045979 who doesn't believes the Franks were Germanic but Pannonian, I should have made that clear in the OP, sorry. He also doesn't like Germanics and Jews.

>>3061641
>Still the same kike faggot

Go away, passive-aggressive lunatic

File: racial purity.jpg (172KB, 1339x335px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3061653
tell me how these maps suggest French are clearly distinct from Germanic peoples (Germany, Denmark, England).
>>3060235
>>3060273
>>3060220
>>3060166
>>3060160
>>3060122

>Matilde Karakachoff, Nicolas Duforet-Frebourg, Floriane Simonet, Solena Le Scouarnec, Nadine Pellen, Simon Lecointe, Eric Charpentier, Françoise Gros, Stéphane Cauchi, Philippe Froguel, Nane Copin, the D.E.S.I.R. Study Group, Thierry Le Tourneau, Vincent Probst, Hervé Le Marec, Sabrina Molinaro, Beverley Balkau, Richard Redon, Jean-Jacques Schott, Michael G. B. Blum, and Christian Dina

are professionals from the National Institute of Health and Medical Research Institute (INSERM) and come to the conclusion in pic related, but go on, autismo

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/french.html

>>3061680
>His source is a website
LMAO

>>3061685
>LOLOLOL I DON'T ANSWER ARGUMENTS THAT BTFO MY AUTISTIC LITTLE LARP FANTASY

But I'm not delusional, you won't accept it anyway.

File: genmap1.jpg (45KB, 500x390px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3061689
>LOLOLOL

Un jvchien

Suicide toi, pêh

Once again you act like a barking dog which is pretty nomral for a kike since you have so much negroe blood in you

Anyway

French aren't related to Iberian, nor Italian(pic related)

>>3061701
What does your map even show?
Any source for your claim?

>>3061710
>What does your map even show?

It's called genetic distance and it is used to mesure the genetic closeness/relatedness of people using various SNPs

>Any source for your claim?
Simply type "genetic distance European people"

>>3061721
Alright, and your map is supposed to show what? That there are differences between peoples? OK.

But you're just going to ignore the conclusion of the Nationonal Institute of Health and Medical Research from your own country?

>>3061739
>My own country

You mean the country that import shitskins to genocide me and my people ?

My country is the kingdom of France not this niggerized shithole and her komissars

>>3061752
And judging by the name alone, half of these researchers are Bretons, the rest being Germans and Italians

And i just found out that the dirctor of the INSERM is a kike(Yves Lévy) too, so no i'm gonna believe this bullshit

>>3061752
>>3061761
You're delusional and I think you have serious mental problems, but that's none of my business, I guess there's no point in further debating you if you think that's how evidence or argumentation works.

>>3061783
You didn't post anything you just posted a shitty site that i easily refuted


You also confused mtDNA with Y-DNA which prove your utter lack of knowledge about genetics

You should avoid genetics topic when you don't knowa anything about it

File: Serfs.png (538KB, 1006x812px) Image search: [Google]

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It is going off topic, so let's go back to the main question that is the slave race know as Gayrm*ans

>>3061802
Alright, I'll take the bait once again:
>easily refuted
Not accepting a genuine source because you hate Germans, Italians and Jews isn't how a sane adult would argue, but to each his own.

>>3061808
That was never the question, I know Germans are a mixture of Germanics, Celts, Romans and Slavs. The question was whether or not French are partly Germanic, and t b h it very much looks like it, even if you don't want to accept it.

>>3061761
This reminds me of the anti-Normanist Russians who said that Russian Universities were controlled by Germans and other Westerners and the idea that Russia was founded by someone other than Russian was some Western propaganda.

File: Pannonian FRENCH.png (63KB, 643x741px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3045391
PANNONIAN ORIGIN OF THE FRENCH CONFIRMED BY DNA
GERMANIC BTFO

File: Pannonian FRENCH.png (421KB, 1902x848px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3061945
PANNONIAN MASTER RACE

>>3061945
>>3061953
Ignoring numerous other sources and taking one gravesite as representative on a whole people, denying that any other genetic influences could be apparent, that's not how it works, autismo.

http://www.onisep.fr/Ressources/Univers-Metier/Metiers/aide-medico-psychologique/

>>3061957

Fuck off bigot

Genetics already confirmed my claim

File: 1499677174190.png (78KB, 643x741px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3061966
one (1) source of you says that two (2) genomes (the whole DNA of an organism) - two individuals - are similar to French people, but also suggest they share similarities with Northern Europeans.

Maps about the genetics of entire peoples (see above) show that Frenchmen share many genetical features with Germanic peoples, supporting the prevalent narrative.

No source of you has yet even clearly supported your thesis with simple statements like "no, Franks don't have Germanic ancestors at all, and yes, Franks are clearly from Pannonia".

The fact that two bronze-age individuals from Hungary share some genetic features with Frenchmen (and Northern Europeans) is unfortunately not enough to dismiss a narrative held by the overwhelming majority of historians and even genetics scientists.

I still tend to think you are one bad troll, though.

>>3061990
FUCKING DUMB SUBHUMAN

IR1 is another invidividual the PANNONIANS THAT ARE RELATED TO THE FRENCH are BR1 and BR2

Look at the map here >>3061953 then KYS after realizing how dumb you are !

File: autist.jpg (179KB, 877x761px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3061998
yeah, it's enough now. You don't even acknowledge and respond to points that speak against your thesis, you just start insulting, show individual cases and overgeneralize. I think you might like this place better: >>>/pol/

btw if that is you in the pic I wouldn't call anyone subhuman

File: Pannonia.png (2MB, 2888x2548px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3062006
>Got BTFO using genetics
>muh pic


It is not my fault if you're too dumb to even understand a basic text in English, LOWLY DUMB SUBHUMAN


>. You don't even acknowledge and respond to points that speak against your thesis


You made no point, you just hastily draw a red line below a text totally unrelated to the present topic

LET'S RESUME YOUR DEEDS !

-You confused Y-DNA and mtDNA
-You don't know what genetic distance is
-You don't know what SNPs are
-You confused totally unrelated individuals
-You don't know the genetic distribution of Haplogroup R1b
--You don't know the genetic distribution of Haplogroup I1

>>3062006
I can add to YOUR GLORIOUS DEEDS :


-You hastily posted the same pic for the (3 time) as if somehow you made a point

>>3062006
>>3059882
>>3045979

-You also quoted your own post quoted as if somehow you made a point

>>3049977
>>3059882
>>3061641

-You just hastily draw a red line below a text totally unrelated to the present topic
As for myself i have sourced everyone of my claim :
>>3045471
>>3045554
>>3045576
>>3045625
>>3046848
>>3046858
>>3046879
>>3046939
>>3046953
>>3046972
>>3047000
>>3047111
>>3047193
>>3047233
>>3047277
>>3048920
>>3049030
>>3049086
>>3049208
>>3049441
>>3049503
>>3049875
>>3049925
>>3050173
>>3050288
>>3050337
>>3050382
>>3055064
>>3055156
>>3055226
>>3055488
>>3055861
>>3056368
>>3060011
>>3060109
>>3060273
>>3060368
>>3060393
>>3061566
>>3061580
>>3061701
>>3061808
>>3061945
>>3061953
>>3062019


EVERYONE of my post are sourced, and all sources are from ACCEPTED ACADEMIC SOURCES