Roman /his/tory

>>3041019
Boy do I hate summer

>>3041019
Good luck with that, OP.

Here's the best map of the empire on the internet:
http://pelagios.org/maps/greco-roman/

>>3041019
Did you know that the oldest law in European-style law systems is the law about the forming and organizing limited partnerships? It's at least 2000 years old.

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>>3041019

>>3041029
Thank you anon.

>>3041042
That's actually rather interesting, considering the vast influence that the Roman Empire and Greece had on law

Romans saw wearings pants as barbarian thing. However eventually population that lived in gallia and Britain had to use them.

>>3041044
I don't really see the point in making fun about fullers and their craft, considering that's a much better handling of waste than most societies managed.

>>3041025
Sleemo

>>3041065
It was not just about fuller but romans throwing their unwanted babies in dung pits. Also throwing shit directly on streets. Actually if shit came on someone they could sue you. If they win you had to pay his health bill and other damages.

Writing this from memory, so be gentle.

A "contubernium" was the lowest unit size in the Legion format, it was 8 men who shared a tent+a mule. It also became a slang term that roughly translates to "comrade", with contubernas. Julius Caesar would refer to his men as such.

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>>3041069
It's not like Europeans didn't continue to do this for hundreds of years later

>>3041064
That's interesting, I'll try to remember that

>>3041073
I was aware of the categorizations of groups of men in the roman legions with specific names and numbers, but I hadn't quite delved into this yet so thanks for in the information

Under Roman law the head of a family (pater familias) was the eldest male and he had complete control over the lives of those in his household. It was entirely legal for him to kill any of his children or grandchildren that were under 18 months of age without needing to give a reason. He could also arrange and veto marriages, although Augustus hated this privilege and made a law saying that to veto a marriage you had to have a genuine reason.

>>3041088
I want to add that this was only for republican/kingdom era. In middle/late empire people didn`t really care much bout these things and strict family order crumbled.

>>3041025
at least he wants to learn something, better than just wasting on /v/

>>3041019
Roman agriculture was pitiful, there was a frequent shortage of free hands in the later centuries. Infamously, there existed a universal saddle in Rome, shared by legions and peasants. Problem was you couldn't mount jack shit to it without fucking strangling the horse to death, and the Western Empire fell before it could be rectified, which they probably wouldn't have even bothered doing anyway because the entire government was a mix of outwardly incompetent and inwardly degenerate.

here's an interesting article about roman chariot racing
http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/circus.html

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The Colosseum could be filled up with water and they would stage mock naval battles inside of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naumachia

>>3041088
>>3041090
That's a fascinating insight to the roman family hierarchy, sorry if this is an ill-informed question but why did the strict family order crumble? I have a vague idea of the Roman Empire for many different reasons, but I'm looking to expand it.

>>3041091
That's neat, is that why they would force p.o.w.s to farm?

>>3041095
I've actually learned about this before, but it is a really interesting and the Colosseum deserves the praise it gets in modern times

>>3041093
I'll read this and report back on what I thought

>>3041096
Probably, the economy was in a pitiful state as they weren't exporting anything en masse, just aristocrats importing, I.E. taking gold and silver out of the economy. Moreover, towns were simply being abandoned on the frontier and the Goths were either moving in or just building new towns stupidly deep into Roman territory; there were few hands to farm, fewer to defend the state, and fewer still who cared enough to stay.

>>3041096
Well there is no clear reason but if you ask me it is because early romans were warlike people. Later in rome people were more interested in art,business etc. I think that when a nation gets civilized their family structure lose its importance. Also in empire era we know that people had less children especially nobles patricians (nobles)

tl:dr Civilization kills of family

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From the middle republic to the late empire, inscriptions were ubiquitous in roman life; dedications, altars, gravestones, statues, pillars decrees and laws.

This book should tell you everything you need to know about ancient roman inscriptions: http://archmdmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Understanding-Roman-Inscriptions.pdf

Also, you should learn latin (if you don't already) if you want to become an expert at roman history.

>>3041088
Wasnt it frowned upon to kill the student if it had no physical deformaties or am i thinking of somewhere else?

>>3041108
Until I started learning more about the Roman Empire I could never believe that the Goths so easily invaded Roman lands until I learned about the autism that was Roman Generals admiring literal barbarians

>>3041111
I think you have a good point here about more civilized nations have less family structure.

>>3041114
I actually am learning Latin amidst my studies of the Roman Empire, and I rather enjoy it. It does annoy me a little when there are a good many words that are common in the language yet don't follow the rules, like the word for farmer being feminine when it was a masculine job, etc.
>inb4 someone sees I've used etc twice without noting that it's latin
Thanks for the source about roman inscriptions though, That really does seem to be a big point in Roman History

>>3041117
Child****

Blaming the fall of the western roman empire on [modern day thing I don't like] has been a common historical meme for thousands of years, that continues to this day with people complaining about "degeneracy", immigration, low birth rates, etc.

However its interesting to see what the people who actually lived through it blamed the disaster on. Nearly all contemporary writing about the event were christians and pagans pointing fingers at each other for angering god/the gods.

Early roman soldiers had to have their own land to enlist. Also they had buy their own equipment. Government paid you fee if your horse died in combat.

According to legend after crassus(richest roman) got killed by parthians they poured molten gold in his mouth.

>>3041117
It was frowned upon. But it was legal.

In republic there was a civil war because romans didn`t want to give citizenship to some of her holdings. Few hundred years later roman empire gave citizenship to everyone who lived in the country.

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>>3041128
It was pretty obvious from the start that there was a multitude of reasons for the Empire collapsing and those people that claim things like that are clearly just using it for an agenda, which seems to be the main reason for history nowadays. I think the pagan blaming and christian blaming memes are pretty funny though because it's not too different from real religious people arguing that another religion caused bad things. Pic related I thought was pretty funny except for the obvious jew boogeyman maymay

>>3041133
I did know about the information on the soldiers but I didn't know about Crassus, is he very important?

>>3041141
That actually is really interesting to me because it's not dissimilar to modern day events, such as organized territories like Puerto Rico not having the same rights a US state but attempting to change that.

>>3041150
Crassus is important. He was part of first First Triumvirate. Also he created first roman fire brigade. If there was fire he would buy all houses that fire would have burned for half price or less. Then would used his fire fighters to put it out. Genius line of business.

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>>3041088
Only under early-middle republican law. Indeed, as Aulus Gellius tells us in his Noctes Atticae V. XIX, the adrogation (adoption through a popular assembly) included the transferal of the power of life and death over the son (potestas vitae necisque)

This power waned, however. Ulpian (writing at the end of the 2th century of our era) says: "the father cannot kill his son without a trial, he must first accuse him before the pretor or the provincial governor" (Inauditum filium pater occidere non potest, sed accusare eum apud praefectum praesidemve provinciae debet - Justinian's Digesta 48.8.2)

An edict of Alexander Severus in 227 AD confirms this (Justinian's Codex 8.46.3): the father now has only a power of mere correction, with the ability to denounce his son, should he continue with his impiety.

Constantine, in the end, forbade the murder of a son under any circustance. Should a father kill his son, he would be charged with parricide (to use their own terms - poena parricidi)

>>3041117
>>3041135
Again, perhaps only in the earlier times of the republic. Roman law was later VERY influenced by greek schools of thought, specially the stoic.

As such, Marcianus tells us in the Corpus Iuris Civilis, that Hadrian banished a father that had killed his own son, because "paternal power must consist in piety, not in atrocity" (Divus hadrianus fertur, cum in venatione filium suum quidam necaverat, qui novercam adulterabat, in insulam eum deportasse, quod latronis magis quam patris iure eum interfecit: nam patria potestas in pietate debet, non atrocitate consistere - Digesta 48.9.5)

>>3041180
That's actually a very genius idea for business, I'll try to learn more about Crassus, thank you anon.

Well this was a really helpful and insightful thread for me, thanks to everyone who gave me resources and information, I'll be back tomorrow if people are still interested in giving information.

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>>3041150
>that image
hah, le jew meme aside that's pretty good

here have a paper I wrote on the jewish roman wars and their impact on subsequent history. I think its quite an interesting topic, they were quite shockingly brutal.
https://pastebin.com/9MriQCz6

I GOT A MESSAGE FOR Y'ALL SMUG BARBARIAN LANDICAE UP IN THIS THERMAE. Here in the greatest republic on the MOTHERFUCKING PLANET*, we have a little saying "ALEA IACTA EST", which is Latin for "FUCK YOU CARTHAGE".

So you keep scribbling your smug little graffiti, just remember that if you ever went to war with THE S P Q R, you'd get pilum stuck in your rectum faster than you can say "AVE CAESAR". GOT IT????????

*and Athens too

During difficult times, roman generals would often call upon legionairs that were due to retire to serve longer. These so called 'evocati' were above the common soldiers in every way. They had barely any camp duties and even rode horses on the march.

>>3041255
D-did you memorize a meme?

(You fucking autist)

>>3041479
>implying I haven't memorized countless memes
I know baneposting by heart for example. I also remember this:

LOL @ the screenshot

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use, even go want to do look more like?

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After the destructive Byzantine–Sasanian War of 602–628 and the subsequent Islamic invasions the Romans became deathly afraid of pitched battles. They adopted a strategy based entirely on allowing the Arabs cross the Taurus mountains, allowing them to loot and then ambushing them when they were carrying said loot. It would take almost two hundred years for the Romans to re-establish their military apparatus to a state where it could effectively engage in pitched battles. Eastern Roman military history is extremely interesting because of it's unique adaptability and because we have large quantities of contemporary literature about it.

>>3041503
Why did they completely gave up with pitched battles for 200 years? During Punic Wars Rome kept getting BTFO in pitched battles but still continued to throw men into the fray.

>>3041510
Pitched battles weren't worth it. That's it pretty much. It's not as cool perhaps but it's much more safer.

>>3041510
>>3041524

Another overlooked aspect of this is that during the Punic wars, the Romans of the Italian peninsula actually far outnumbered their surrounding neighbors in terms of population, which is another reason why they could keep chucking out army after army and take the damage.

Compare that to the Romans left on Anatolia, which were at a dearth for soldiers, and still wrecked in population from the plague (Anatolia wouldn't recover pre-justinian plague population levels until the 800s)

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>>3041503
Somewhat related:

For about 2 centuries, from the reign of Arcadius to the reign of Justin II, emperors would without exception refuse to personally command armies, and would instead rule from Constantinople while relying on their own generals to command the empire's military forces. This is a radical change from just a few decades before, where the Roman emperor was still very much a military commander first and foremost. Was this a reaction to the psychological blow of Valens' defeat at Adrianople? If so, is it really possible that one battle could have such an effect on more than two centuries of Roman military policy?
Also, it's interesting to note that in this entire period the number of revolts and usurpations was shockingly low. Considering that the reason why previously so many emperors were military men is because they had originally served as generals, and they believed total control of the army was necessary to stay in power, it's strange that in such a short time emperors were content to let other men command their armies, and yet the only emperor in this entire 200 year period to lose his throne was Zeno (who gained it back shortly thereafter). It was only really Heraclius who actually brought back the idea of the soldier-Emperor, nearly 300 years after the concept had been abandoned by the eastern Roman state.

>>3041503
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhnYFRu4ao

>>3041200
That's something I didn't even know about, thanks!

>>3041390
that sounds like a pretty nice job

>>3041503
I didn't know that Roman could have been this demoralized, that's a very interesting detail about the later roman armies, especially >>3042179, That beacon system is also pretty neat, it seems a lot of empires had beacons or something to that effect

>>3041128
But degeneracy and (armed)immigration really are two of valid reasons which caused WRE collapsed. History does repeat itself sometimes.

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LATINS GET OUT OF GREECE REEEEEEEEE.

>>3041200

>https://pastebin.com/9MriQCz6

Very interesting read anon. Thank you.

>>3042725
the romans were far more sexually degenerate during the pax romana than they were during the decline, christianity reduced sexual liberalism a lot

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>>3042809

>>3042725
I get the armed immigration, Germans would literally just march in and start taking shit over while the Romans did nothing, but how did degeneracy do anything other than religious problems?

>>3042821
Agreed we shod have anons write summaries of events they find important to share with is in a presentable manner. Maybe we can make a wiki with articles written by people here with citations like stanford encyclopedia (a more amateur version of course)

>>3042992
this could be a cool idea

>>3042821
>>3042992
thanks, glad you liked it

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>>3042953
>the romans were far more sexually degenerate during the pax romana than they were during the decline

This exactly proves my point. You know "Causality", right? Degeneration is not the cause of Pax Romana, it's the result of it, and it provides a good soil of the declination of Roman Empire. The Christianity actually prolonged Roman Empire's life by reducing promiscuity. ERE lived for another thousand years by this.

>>3043119
the romans were having orgies long before the pax romana

>>3043119
>unironically believing this image when there are countless examples in history to the contrary
try applying this to the bronze age collapse for instance, it doesn't work

>>3042980
Degeneracy and religious conflicts both increase social instability and impact moral values which will eventually influence policies.

>>3043130
what is degeneracy?

>>3043124
But as rampant as Pax Romana period. At least Romans used to ban faggotory during republic era.

>>3043141
*Not as rampant as

>>3043128
Well it does kinda work like that, believe it or not. It also applies to some Chinese history.

>>3043141
>Romans used to ban faggotory during republic era.
to what do you refer, the romans did not have the same conception of sexual orientation as modern day, and please refrain from using terms like "faggotry" its not a high level of discourse

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Anyone who mentions "degeneracy" as a major factor in the demise of the Roman empire is a retard who needs to stop reading Gibbon.

>>3043119
Utter nonsense. Rome fell because of a fuck ton of issues spanning centuries that lead to a cascading systems failure.

Flimsy laws of succession
Military coups and civil wars
A fucked economy because of those coups and little understanding of inflation leading to a proto-feudal system
A manpower shortage in the army because nobody wanted to enlist and risk being caught up in a civil war, creating a reliance on foreign soldiers
Treating said foreign soldiers like dog shit for being foreign despite the fact that they make up nearly all of your fighting force
Capable generals being eliminated for gaining too much popularity
Political grand standing and posturing in times of crisis instead of compromising because nobody realized just how fragile the state was
Religious fracturing causing unrest

The only group of barbarians to be allowed to settle in Roman turf were the Goths, who were treated like shit and the issue came to a head when Honorius had the women and children of the Gothic legionaires murdered in Illyria.

Muh degeneracy and muh immigration are /pol/ memes.

>>3043154
its a ludicrously gross oversimplification of issues that arise over centuries

>>3043156
that is not part of Gibbon's thesis

>>3043169
You forgot the most significant factor of all: plague.

"Immigration" was a factor though, as was the increasing Germanic influence in the army and government.

>>3043169
this

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Daily reminder pic related was the greatest man ever to rule the Roman empire.

>>3043192
>gets written out of history by Diocletian

>>3043169
>Utter nonsense
It really is not nonsesne if you know promiscuity really dose impact social stability and governorship. There were several Chinese dynasties were also very corrupt, incompetent and promiscuous during their final days, e.g Shang, Jin, Tang, Ming, Qing.

>Rome fell because of a fuck ton of issues spanning centuries that lead to a cascading systems failure.
Of course, I never claim degeneracy and immigration are the only reasons caused WRE to fall.

>Muh degeneracy and muh immigration are /pol/ memes.
Comment like this is enough to prove your understandings is also meme.

>its a ludicrously gross oversimplification of issues that arise over centuries
No, it doesn't, promiscuity is not the only nor the most serious issues, but it really can cause negative effect.

>>3043216
*promiscuity and pampered life style

>>3041019

You could be the emperor's right hand man, while legally being only a slave.

Christian massive persecutions are a meme.

>>3043155
>the romans did not have the same conception of sexual orientation as modern day
No, they just used different words to indicate similar things, but faggots are still faggots, homos are still homos, very simple and obvious. The only things they didn't have are tranny and fluid genders bullshit.

>>3043240
Slaves in Rome is such an interesting topic, because of it's rather different dynamic as opposed to most slaving culture. Slaves were actually treated well and could even work to buy their freedom or be set free, in rare cases some Slaves even went on to become rich and prominent businessmen, like the brothers who owned the house of the Vettii (it's thought that they were freedmen).

>>3043257
absolutely false

I'm still waiting for you to explain to what you refer when you say homosexuality was banned during the republic

Mary Beard >> Adrian Goldsworthy

Deep down you know it's true.

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>>3041019
Fuck off back to /pol/ with your proto-fascist authoritarian fetish, stop shitting up this board.

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>>3043290
>sees my op
>butthurt about Romans being so important to western civilization
>calls me /pol/ and a fascist fetishist
Fuck off yourself

>>3041019
Can we reconstruct the latin pronounciation? What about other old languages

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>>3043377
Why else would you create a thread just to glorify a society that subjugated and oppressed millions of people and represented every ugly right-wing and authoritarian political ideology of the 20th century? Important to western civiliation? The Greeks were important to civilization (both east and west, to ignore your eurocentric bias), while the Romans were a bunch of pseudo-fascist bloodthirsty slavers bent on a path of destruction and ruin toward all the great societies that had come before them.

>>3041128
I've seen people blame the fall of the Roman Empire on completely absurd things. I once saw a person on /pol/ argue that Rome fell because of women entering politics and their vaginas ruining everything. Because ya know, people like Agripina were totally making every single major decision that led to Rome's downfall like overextending the empire so she could get new footwear and some how causing inflation along with somehow creating an atmosphere that lead everyone, from the emperor to the lowest peasant struggling to survive, to become a nihilist degenerate who raped little boys.

No, I am not kidding when I say people have claimed this.

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>>3043394
I'm not so sure about reconstruction of the latin pronunciation, I do know that vini vidi veci was pronounced weny wedi weci,

>>3043403
I actually love this response just because of how smart you think you're being, holy shit.
>Why else would you create a thread just to glorify a society that subjugated and oppressed millions of people and represented every ugly right-wing and authoritarian political ideology of the 20th century?
Holy shit you have me in hysterics here, thanks for the laugh
>Important to western civiliation? The Greeks were important to civilization (both east and west, to ignore your eurocentric bias)
Oh boy I said Romans were important to western civilization, this means I clearly don't care about the Greeks or other civilizations that contributed to modern society, right? right?
>while the Romans were a bunch of pseudo-fascist bloodthirsty slavers bent on a path of destruction and ruin toward all the great societies that had come before them.
Well if you'd read >>3043259 and other Roman literature you'd know they treated slaves well and let them work to attain their freedom, among other things.

I'll make a tl;dr because I'm sure you're too lazy to read any of this, YOU'RE MENTALLY ILL

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>>3043403

>Applying Modern political ideals and buzzwords to a classical society.
>Applying our modern morality to an ancient society
>Not realizing that all ancient societies were like this and that given the opportunities the Romans had they would have done the same.

Also if you are seriously implying that the Greeks weren't warlike I would like to direct your attention in the direction of R*ddit and a little known ancient Greek kingdom known as Macedonia.

>>3043442
Maced*nians were just savage barbarians though. Not at all worthy of being put in the same light as civilized Hellas and being called Greeks.

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>>3043432
>Y-you're dumb!
Great argument.
Yes, they were wonderful to their slaves. Kind enough to chain them and force them to work in mines until they died in horrible conditions, no human rights, and no hope of freedom. As I said, /pol/ is that way...

>>3043442
I never said that, I said that the Greek's achievements were destroyed by the Romans who were exponentially worse both as a society and historical event. The fact that the Nazis and other modelled themselves on the Romans tells you all you need to know about them. They were a civilization of savage, xenophobic and genocidal maniacs led by populist demagogues like Caesar who took all the power for themselves, while destroying the few valuable things they had inherited from the Greeks like democracy, setting Europe back thousands of years. Kindly leave /his/, the one board where you stormfront retards don't congregate.

>>3043463
Not him but what's so bad about slaves? Everyone from the Mediterranean to China has used slaves and none of them treated them that well.

>>3043394
Yes, namely from poetry and texts where authors tell us how things are pronounced.

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>>3043463
This should be enough (you)s, now get out I'm learning about Rome right now.
Also, we know the real bad guys were furries, you idiot

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>>3043470
What's so bad about slavery? Are you being fucking serious right now?

>>3043490
Yep, nice one, when you can't win the argument you just yell "bait!". Forget /pol/, maybe you belong on Reddit.

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>>3041019
>I'm attempting to become an expert at Roman culture/history/warfare etc.
/his/ is not the place for that
Also that book (see pic, I have it) is a good coffee table book. I use mine as a stand for my work monitor

READ THE FOLLOWING:
Plutarch
Caesar's Commentaries
Herodotus
MOAR CLASSICS

>>3043518
What? Sure the Romans practiced slavery and other things that a modern westerner finds repulsive but on a relative scale, they're pretty normal or average. They seem pretty on par with Persia for example.

>>3041044
I can't remember who it was but either Cato The Elder or Cicero came from a family of fullers

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>>3043518
You're too retarded to point out everything wrong with your post, I just want you to you leave, I don't care about who you think is /pol/ or reddit. You're not properly discussing the issue nor are you actually thinking straight, and it's best I just forget giving you a real argument.
>inb4 another because I'm wrong I just yell bait
>All ancient societies, especially Greece had slaves
>Romans didn't destroy Greece's achievements, if anything they made them more widespread and popular, Greek culture was very prominent in Rome
>the fact that the Nazis and others modeled themselves on the Romans
is wrong you retard no they didn't, stop making bullshit claims and then expecting me to waste time trying to prove you wrong.
Please just leave, everything was going good and I was actually learning interesting things until you showed up

>>3043539
I believe Cato came from a family of farmers and soldiers while Cicero was a relative outsider from the countryside, although I'm not sure about his family profession.

>>3043520
I know that I need to read classics anon, I'm just starting with a beginners guide.

>>3043542
The best way to get him to fuck off is to ignore him m8.

>>3041111
>tl:dr Civilization kills of family
>>3041119
>I think you have a good point here about more civilized nations have less family structure.

Civilization =/= Ease of Living

What about Japan? Don't they have family structure, albeit they stopped reproducing as much

>>3041150
>but I didn't know about Crassus, is he very important?
never fail /his/

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>>3041019
Emperor Valentinian I died of a burst blood vessel while screaming in rage at Quadian emisaries.

>>3041133 >>3041150
>According to legend after crassus(richest roman) got killed by parthians they poured molten gold in his mouth.
Does /his/ even read Plutarch?

From Wikipedia:

when Crassus mounted a horse to ride to the Parthian camp for a peace negotiation, his junior officer Octavius suspected a Parthian trap and grabbed Crassus' horse by the bridle, instigating a sudden fight with the Parthians that left the Roman party dead, including Crassus.[26] A story later emerged to the effect that after Crassus' death, the Parthians poured molten gold into his mouth as a symbol of his thirst for wealth.[27]

>>3043557
That's how I wish I could die. From a position of power, yelling at a bunch of idiots.

>>3041200
>https://pastebin.com/9MriQCz6
nice read

>>3043119
>i learn history through memes

>>3043141
>Romans used to ban faggotory during republic era.
Explain Sulla being into traps....

>>3043561
you sound very bitter anon

>>3043549
It was Cicero
>1 1 It is said of Helvia, the mother of Cicero, that she was well born and lived an honourable life; but of his father nothing can be learned that does not go to an extreme. 2 For some say that he was born and reared in a fuller's shop, while others trace the origin of his family to Tullus Attius,1

>>3043571
Ironically Sulla also removed the position of censor who was in charge of ensuring the good behaviors of people in the city.

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>>3041019
The Legio V Macedonica was the longest serving Roman Legion, having been raised in 43 B.C by Octavian, and lasting until the 7th century. It served in the Great Jewish Revolt under Vespasian, in Dacia under Trajan, in Marcomannia under Marcus Aurelius, and it supported Septimius Severus during the civil war. It was garrisoned in the Balkans over several centuries, and detachments of the legion served under Diocletian and in Mesopotamia against the Sassanids.
The last records of the Legion show some of its elements stationed in Egypt just two years before the Islamic Conquest (637 A.D).

This makes it technically older than the Western Roman Empire.

>>3043591
That's really cool.

>>3043591
You think they're a contender for worlds oldest military unit

>>3043591
Also makes it older than the entire period of Roman imperial classical antiquity
They were probably destroyed in the war against the Rashidun caliphate

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>>3043591
>Legio V Macedonica
LVM

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A good resource I'd recommend is The History of Rome Podcast. It does a very good job at giving a general overview of (Western) Roman History. It draws from a mix of legend, archaeological evidence, writings from famous Roman Historians such as Plutarch and Tacitus and also from more modern historians like Gibbon. 179 episodes in length with over 72 hours of monotone informative lecture on the greatest civilization of all time. And the best part, ITS FREE FOR ANYONE!

>>3043667
It's a good podcast and you'll be a great armchair historian if you retain a lot of that information.

It will also prepare you to read the Classics and get some juicy tidbits of ancient history that people tend to overlook in podcasts/lectures.

Like I remember Plutarch complaining about people who are way into gladiators, akin to nerds complaining about people being too much into sports. Also other fun bits like stereotypes of things/people in the ancient world and sayings.

could I also throw in the Great Courses. I really like Rufus Fear's lectures

These videos always get deleted so enjoy them while they last! Here's the greek lives (he basically does a synopsis of PLutarch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi2q_NDhQVg

>>3041019
Aurelian was the best emperor. Also if you want to learn about the foundation of the Roman legal system read about the bronze tables.

>>3043667
>>3043682
thanks for this, I'm good at remembering information from podcasts and lectures and such. [spoiler] also thanks for making the thread less shit [/spoiler]

>tfw your favorite period of Roman history is final century of the WRE
Has a lot of stuff people would recognize yet always seems kind of overlooked compared to the other big periods i.e. end of the Republic, Augustan and Pax Roman though it does get more play than the Crisis.

>>3043714
I've been saying it a lot but Plutarch is really good and entertaining. You can download an audiobook (sometimes free because it's public domain, volunteers will read Plutarch for you)

I wash my dishes to Plutarch

>>3043729
So far I have the history of Rome podcast, classics like Plutarch and the commentaries of Caesar among other classics tor read, I'll have to spend a lot of time to soak in all this information, thanks!

>>3043748
also fuck this podcast is so comfy

>>3043667
Mike gets a lot better as he goes along and I don't think I've found any podcaster I like more than him in terms of presentation. Good sound quality (not so much at the beginning of HoR) and he speaks very clearly and at a speed that allows you to get what he's saying without feeling like he's being slow. Also he can be pretty funny in a very dry way. I'm near the end of it (for the second time) and the bit about Theodosius II, at 20, and his request on what he wants in a wife was hilarious in a long quote that basically boils down to "no fatties, no uggos, no Stacies, only 10/10 pure untainted girls need apply". It ends with Mike saying something like "Theodosius and Athenais were wed. Nothing was gained politically but at least she was hot".

>>3041019

I've been listening to SPQR on audiobook lately. Pretty baller so far.

>>3043463
>>3043518

No him but Roman slavery was a lot "nicer" than most forms of slavery. Being a slave in Rome typically wasn't a life sentence. And slaves being "freed" was a pretty routine event, whereas in other places at the time, slavery was typically for life, and slaves very rarely obtained freedom. And beyond that, Roman slaves could become full citizens upon being freed, whereas a Greek slave could never be considered a citizen. Practically everybody in Rome was descended from a slave if you took their family tree back far enough, so there was very little social stigma attached to it, whereas in other societies at the time, being the descendent of a slave was a very shameful thing. In Rome, it was normal, so nobody cared, except in perhaps very elite circles.

>>3043463
the romans were much better than the greeks when it came to treatment of women, with the notable exception of Sparta every greek polis was basically saudi arabia tier

>>3044315
It's kind of funny but they seemed to have gotten better as time went on. Even the big ones of the Pax Romana -- Livia, Agrippina the Younger and Pompeia Plotina -- while they may have been large political players, didn't wield nearly the same level of power that the likes of Galla Placidia, Aelia Eudoxia or Pulcheria had. I mean a goddamn 15 year old girl ran the Eastern half of the Roman Empire and actually did a pretty decent job of it while also being one of the most important figures in the development of Christianity. That's kind of insane.

>>3043614
probably, but I'm more curious as to what the world's oldest military unit that still exists is

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>>3043727
although the WRE was little more than a rump state for much of its final century

>>3044315

In SPQR, the author spends a good chunk of a chapter discussing the founding myth of Rome, and what it says about Roman culture. According the myth, after Romulus had constructed the foundation of his new city, he sought out people to inhabit it. His answer was to open up his city to all, inviting anybody who would join him. Criminals, brigands, exiles, anybody who didn't quite fit in could come to Rome for a fresh start. This attracted huge numbers of men, but no women. So in order to get women, Romulus ordered his new citizens to kidnap young women from a neighboring tribe known as the Sabines. Of course, the Sabines weren't too thrilled about having their daughters stolen from them, and a war quickly erupted between Rome and the Sabines. The war was brought to an end when, during one battle, the Sabine women rushed into the field and begged the men to stop fighting. The women had fallen in love with their Roman captors and no longer wished to be rescued. After that, both sides agreed to stop fighting, and from then on, Romans and Sabines lived with each other in peace. Titus Tatius, the King of the Sabines, ruled over the united people alongside Romulus in equal authority, until he died and Romulus became the sole ruler of the tribe.

This was the accepted version of the myth of most Romans believed, although the implication that their civilization was founded by a band of rapists apparently made many Roman historians rather uncomfortable, even back then. Sometimes, they would modify the story to try to make the thing seem more "proper" but these modifications never seemed to stick in the public consciousness, as the popular storyline never changed despite vain attempts by certain Roman authors to "correct" the narrative. Of course, not everybody found the story to be so embarrassing. At least one Roman author created a series of erotic poems centered around the event.

>>3044400
Probably something British or French

>>3043403
Sadduccee spotted

>>3043458
That was until Phillip the fifth wipped them into shape, instituted Iphacrates reforms and conquered the whole of hellas.

(Source on iphacrate's reforms and how they caused the birth of the macedonian pike phalanx: http://lukeuedasarson.com/Iphikrates1.html )

>>3044405
I'm aware of that but that's what makes it all the more interesting. The long slide into decay, irrelevancy and non-existant, the desperate attempts to try and piece everything back together and all the great figures of the time: Stillicho, Galla Placidia, Alaric, Ataulf, Theodoric, Aetius, Atilla (or the infamous like Valentinian III or Petronius Maximums). All the political manuevering and the fact that there are clear times where all of this shit could've been avoided if people weren't being so dumb.

Interesting times.

>>3041025
Hey at least this thread is related to history

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>>3042725

the Roman Empire fell for the same reason the Republic fell.

Internal instability and endemic political and economic deficiencies that were sat on and left unaddressed until they worsened beyond salvation.

The Republic fell because the Senate became exclusively focused on addressing the social needs of the land-owning rich class that emerged from the devastation of the Punic wars, filled with self absorbed elites who would not allow the Tribunes and Consuls to legislate to address the horrid unemployment and poverty that these slave-run latifundia were creating. This led to radical populism, civil unrest, a gradual loss of trust and respect for the institutions and a complete break down of rectitude in the behavior of magistrates and statemen alike. Caesar sparked a powder keg that Marius and Sulla spread all over, and Augustus collapsed the building to put it off.

The Empire came crashing due to factors of it's on creation as it happens. It was never properly instituted because it wasn't supposed to keep happening in the first place, it was an extraordinary situation that became ordinary, there was no formal definition of the Princeps' functions and nothing even close to a working relation with the Senate it was an offspring of, but most importantly, no established heir or successor system, which nobody would respect anyhow, ironically making it more prone to despotism and abuse than the rued kings of the early period ever were. A long, long list of bad emperors, strife for power, inability to act upon the changing needs of the population, catastrophes and growingly burdened, inefficient administration weaking Rome enough for the Germanic migrations to strike the final blow.

Make no mistake, Rome was formidable, sophisticated and grand, but it was still rotten within. Her story is perhaps the most important to learn about, as it resonates with the liberal western world the most right now.

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>>3043403
>The Greeks were important to civilization (both east and west, to ignore your eurocentric bias)
>while the Romans were a bunch of pseudo-fascist bloodthirsty slavers bent on a path of destruction and ruin toward all the great societies that had come before them.

i don't have any anime girl smug enough for this one so you get this meme instead

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>>3043463
>The fact that the Nazis and other modelled themselves on the Romans tells you all you need to know about them

yeah, what a shock, a state based ENTIRELY on sucking their own dick and glorifying their shitty kraut genes as the end-all of the human race tried to do an impression of the civilization that was by any standard the end-all of the human race for at least 200 years, they actually did that

and Fascist Italy which actively rejected race based statehood

and the British Empire called themselves their successor

and the Spanish Empire

and the Germans who literally called themselves the Holy Roman empire

and the Russians who wewuz them to this day

and the Turks who wewuz them to this day

and even Americans who say it's the new Rome

It's almost like wanting to be Rome is common because Rome was the fucking tits and everyone agrees on it

>>3042179
Would you not say that Phokas or Maurice (he wrote the Strategikon for god's sake) were the archetypical soldier emperor?

>>3044400
>>3044412
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regimiento_de_Infanter%C3%ADa_Inmemorial_del_Rey_n.%C2%BA_1

When Constantine was emperor and Christianity on the rise, Constantine's mother St Helena funded an archaeological dig in Jerusalem in search of the true cross. They found big wooden beams and these were divided up as relics.

>>3043553
Compared to before i would say yes.

In the begining of rome , city accepted everyone and good of its populations was criminals, ex-slaves as such.

how was daily life for the romans who were not in the military nor in the administration ?

>>3045335
wake up, wear toga , have breakfast meet with plebs give them money, do bussiness things , go bath , go home drink and party.

>>3045350

Togas were the Roman equivalent of a business suite. They weren't worn regularly unless you were high up in Roman society.

>>3045353
I was describing upper class pater familia but yea poor fags didn`t wore toga. They were expensive and required help to get it on. Poorfags wore tunics.

>>3043682
>>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi2q_NDhQVg
were are the videos for romans?

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>>3044385
>I mean a goddamn 15 year old girl ran the Eastern half of the Roman Empire and actually did a pretty decent job of it while also being one of the most important figures in the development of Christianity. That's kind of insane.
yeah but was she liberated or she could only sleep with only a few men she did not choose? that's what matters.

>>3045288
writing in the 15th century Erasmus remarked that if you put together all the bits of wood in reliquaries that were claimed to be shards of St Helena's wooden beams you'd have enough timber to build a fleet of warships

>>3045335
what is the meaning of posting this picture?

>>3045266
He said from Arcadius to Justin II. Tiberius II Constantine was the one who broke the pattern.

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>>3043542
When you make a clearly /pol/ bait thread you have an obligation to defend your bigoted arguments. Since you're doing nothing but green texting and avoiding the discussion it's safe to assume you haven't actually put any thought into what I said so I won't waste my time any more with you.

>>3044313
How can being a slave be "nice"? You're making excuses for the oppressive behaviour of some of the most exploitative, selfish, xenophobic people in recorded history - the people who pioneered the idea of institutionalized oppression (later basically racism) with petty little arguments like "b-but it wasn't that bad"!! I wish /pol/ would go, and stop pretending that morals and decency didn't exist throughout history.

>>3044423
Great argument.

>>3045001
Another great retort, take your shitty memes back to you know where.

>>3045019
And their role in the genocides that states such as the British Empire makes them equally responsible later in history for the treatment of minorities. The legacy of the romans can still be felt to this day with the right-wing across the entire world, and the better people stop glorifying that, the better

>>3043259
Gross generalizations. Some were treated quite well but it really depends on the master at the end of the day. Plus...you're still a slave. Your body does not belong to you and thus you have no rights other than what your master says you have.
In reality(regardless of culture), slavery is never a good think. It hurts the economy anyways.
Plus, as a slave they whenever a legal case came up, all slaves belonging to an accused being ask to testify on behalf of the accused were legally allowed to be tortured, just be ause they were slaves. Should a slave be accused of anything, then torture and the worst punishment possible if guilty.
Tbf, there was also inequality in terms of the kinds of punishment plebs vs. patricians and the rich could receive but that's another story.

>>3043290
Dude wtf is wrong with you?? Some people just want to learn about Rome whether or not they agree with the practices is another different issue. I bet you're the type of feminist who gets offended by any cultural differences with the treatment of women or slaves that you assume how exactly how everyone must have felt about it.
Grow up. This is totally uncalled for and stupid.

>>3041117
>>3041088
>>3041183
I mean, I see the sentiment in a way, assuming the offspring actually did something terrible against the family/father. Think about it, you created your kids, loved them, and took care of them just for them to act like ungrateful little shits to you? I'd feel like killing them too(though I could never actually do such a thing).

I know I will sound like a flaming feminist but here goes anyway: it's a bit b.s that fathers had the right over life or death of all children at least. I mean if anyone should have that right, it technically should be the mother(if we were being fair at least). Mothers literally go through some of the worst pain (in those times literally risked their lives) to give birth to their children. For the father to have the absolute power over their "life and death" whether the mother agreed or not is pretty fucked up. Having children is literally all pleasure for men, outside of actually taking care of them I guess. Oh well, might makes right(though perhaps the term "forces" right is more accurate).

>>3045984

He's baiting. Ignore it.

>>3045527
Pulcheria took regency over her younger brother Theodosius II after Anthemius died then immediately took a vow of virginity both because she was an incredibly devout Christian and because she wanted to ward off any suitors meaning she wouldn't be married off and would continue to maintain power. She only got married in 450 to Marcian and that was because her brother died and she wasn't going to be able to rule as sole Augusta so it was basically just taking some shmuck so she could keep in power.

She effectively ruled the eastern half of the Roman Empire from 414 until she died in 453.

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>>3045984
I love how triggered /pol/ gets when someone calls them out on their bullshit. How about you actually present a counterargument?

>>3046031
The whole Roman family system which we have unfortunately inherited is ridiculously evil and oppressive. It fosters hatred and chauvinism, and it's clear that this was likely a contributing factor to the psychotic policy of the Roman state throughout the centuries, as generation upon generation of warped upbringing caused Rome to become more and more backward until it eventually fell as a result of its own oppression.

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What book would cover this material?

>>3046176
The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by gibbon fuck the christians

>>3045436
Sometimes it pops up. It's called "Famous Romans", which is the Roman section of Plutarch's Lives. The Great Courses (then The Teaching Company) removes them quickly.

another good lecture is Fagan's "The History of Ancient Rome", which I would say is a more academic version of "The History of Rome" podcast

>>3045527
Which video is this? Solon?

>>3046176
1. Kinda easy
2. Argos, Sparta, Mycenne, Ionia Islands (not Asia ones) ... rivers is quite hard
3. Corinth, Attica, Boetia, Pthia, Phocia,
4. Byzantium (?), Troad, Ephesus, Rhodes,
5. Cis-alpine Gaul, Etruria, Latina, Campagnia,
6. rome, Naples, ???, ???, Cuma, ???, ???, Tarento, Tuscany

1. He divided the rule into the Plains, Hills, and Sea. Based on class, etc...
2. Sacred Wars?
3. Brennus came, saw ,conquered, Vae Victis, Roma blanda up and kicked him back out
4. Gracchus -> Social Wars -> Slave uprising -> Shit with Mithridates (many times) -> Marius -> Sulla -> Marius -> Sulla -> Pompey & Pirates -> 1st Triumvirate -> Crassus in Parthia -> Civil War (Pompey & Caesar) -> Caesar Dictator -> Caesar assassination -> 2nd Triumvirate -> Civil Wars 2.0 -> Octavius Caesar wins -> given powers over time -> dies a happy man albeit with whore daughters
5. When it moved to Byzantium, thanks Constantine

I know I got a lot of these wrong and I didn't know many of them. But I honestly went on top of my head without looking it up.

Please correct me!

>>3041019
>ITT: /pol/ bait and shitposting

No thanks.

>>3045973
Yeah you're right it's fair to say the were gross generalizations, I was more trying to shut up the troll and give the answers they wanted than the real answers, and you're right there really aren't any benefits to slavery, even at a purely economic level.

>>3046031
Any parent having the life or death decision over their children is fucked up, by modern standards at least.

>>3046176
>name the countries bordering on the Mediterranean
When? "Ancient" is a pretty stupidly big timeframe. I could literally just answer "the Roman Empire" and I'd be correct within a certain timeframe.

That test certainly shows its age. It's ridiculously notionistic, and absurdly focused on Greece and Rome.

>>3046739
Maybe it was an entrance exam for Classics? It's obviously from an different era. No need to shit on it like that.

>>3046031
>it's a bit b.s that fathers had the right over life or death of all children at least. I mean if anyone should have that right, it technically should be the mother(if we were being fair at least). Mothers literally go through some of the worst pain (in those times literally risked their lives) to give birth to their children. For the father to have the absolute power over their "life and death" whether the mother agreed or not is pretty fucked up. Having children is literally all pleasure for men, outside of actually taking care of them I guess. Oh well, might makes right(though perhaps the term "forces" right is more accurate).

That's a very physical concept of parenthood which only really applies to modern life. Sure, the mother births and nurses the child, but in Roman times and earlier the father would play a far more meaningful role, he would not just provide material posessions, he would educate the son personally in, train him for war, introduce him to civil life, tutor him and prepare him every step of the way to be introduced into the same positions and honors he had. The son would jump into the world from a position of huge privilege provided wholly by his Father and ancestors, and his mindset would be of treating his work and life as a continuation of a greater entity rather than just adding to his own individual gain. Betraying that would amount to much worse than just a minor disagreement.

>>3046790
>No need to shit on it like that.
Well I suppose it's unfair to shit on it for being notionistic, since rote learning was basically the only accepted method till a few decades ago, but not giving a timeframe is pretty brutally stupid IMO.
It's an issue for other questions too: Italy for example wasn't divided in traditional provinces like Greece, is the candidate meant to write the augustean provinces? Or Diocletian's reworking? Constantine's? Ought he go back to pre-imperial times and divide by pre-roman population?

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>>3045019
>and the Russians who wewuz them to this day
Gib back, the second and the first and all the colonies

>>3046836
>but not giving a timeframe is pretty brutally stupid IMO.
Yeah but it could have been an open-ended question to gauge the intelligence of the applicant (playing devil's advocate here)

See you knowing all that would make you a good candidate for reading Classics

>>3046861
>See you knowing all that would make you a good candidate for reading Classics
Until they discover that I forgot all my greek the exact second I stepped out of high school on the last day of exams and that my latin is barely serviceable anymore. I still cannot fucking believe that I scored 15/15 on the latin translation, I averaged 8/10 through high school.

>>3046163
What? I'm not even from /pol/. For christsake I'm behind some of antislavery posts. I'm just defending OP. Obvious this thread has been invaded by /pol/tards as usual but that doesn't mean OP had no intention to learn anything. That's an unfair assumption. Plus there were some very interesting and accurate posts ITT.

>>3041503
To compound on this, during the Byzantine-Sasanian War of 602-628, the Byzantines were losing the war for the better part of 20 years, it was only when Heraclius rebelled and became emperor that things turned around.

In the final pitched battle of the war at Niveneh, the Persian general challenged Heraclius to single-combat and Heraclius killed him in a single blow, then killed two other challengers. The Byzantines then won the battle, and killed Persian war enthusiasm. The Sassanid king would see his armies mutiny and lock him up before executing him.

>>3041503
>They adopted a strategy based entirely on allowing the Arabs cross the Taurus mountains
This is so fucking sad. That's basically what every ruler of the region did from the bronze age onward. Central Anatolia must be the most ravaged region in all Eurasia, at least from the bronze age to the ottoman period.

>>3046820
Everything you just said is very misleading and mostly untrue because fathers play the same role and even more in the lives of their children(BOTH MALE AND FEMALE)today besides just working/ bringing home the bacon. For you to say fathers played a much bigger part then is so incorrect on so many levels. I don't expect have to get into the fact that it was only the boys whose upbringing they intimately had any part.
Men today start playing a more active and intimate role not only when their sons(or daughters) reach puberty, but even as they are babies. At least my dad did and others I know. Something unheard of until the turn of the 20th century probably and even later.

Besides that, I did not deny father's had any role in the upbringing of their children in Rome, especially the sons. I made that clear in the first part of my post. I'm saying overall, if you think about I, it was not as much as the mom's(even if we could say it is close) for them to be given the right of that absolute power over life and death.
>>3046615
Yeah of course, I made that abundantly clear in my post. I could never do such a thing myself as mad as my children could ever make me(though I don't have kids). Nor can I see how anyone could or should do it. I just said I see the sentiment (how one could feel like it, but actually doing and allowing it to be done is dreadful).

https://youtu.be/llquJck7D-0
Is there source to this punishment ever being a thing? I assumed it was b.s. but I really don't put it past the Romans considering all the other cruel and humiliating public punishments they invented. One such event as feeding prisoners to wild animals in the arena comes to mind.

>>3046993

AFAIK the specific quote that refers to is "hundreds of tiny blonde girls being raped by babboons" and it's from Christian writings trying to demonize Romans.

While Damnatio ad Bestias was a thing you gotta keep in mind the frequency and degree of violence is always reported through the lens of a narrative. For example it's now widely believed a lot about Emperors Caligula and Nero are a blatant smear piece by Senators.

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>>3047062
Are you forget about the wild beast hunts?
http://eaglefeather.honors.unt.edu/2012/article/32#.WV6t9mgpBSA
You don't seriously believe most gladiators survived fighting lions and elephants do you?
Besides, tell me how pic related is fake?

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>>3047108
>You don't seriously believe most gladiators survived fighting lions and elephants do you?

well no, most gladiators didn't, that show was performed by specially trained ones called Bestiarii, who would be highly valued for to their skills.

>Besides, tell me how pic related is fake?

looks like an artistic representation, here's another.

>>3047062
If the sources you tell me about the babboon are all there is, then it is unlikely it was a thing, let alone more than a one time thing. Still, even if it only happened once as a mass punishment for Germans, that's pretty fucked up.

>>3047123
I mean that's obviously meant to be lewd but it's not impossible. And so what a guy had a really big dick in a painting? How you know no one had a huge dick at that time? You don't know every Roman back then and it's not like it is flaccid or anything.

>>3047062
>"hundreds of tiny blonde girls being raped by babboons"
SAUCE

great thread, and very informative albeit punctuated with /leftypol/ stupidity..
The cognitive dissonance required to compare modern standards of morality and ethics to a 1500-2000 year old nation, and muh slavery and muh feminism.. Meanwhile ignoring the fact as stated elsewhere, that Greece was completely warlike, and treated its women and slaves MUCH worse than Rome.
Its the same cognitive dissonance required to demonize Nazis (rightly so) yet ignore the fact communism which they all seem to adore was responsible for the most egregious horrors in our respective era… eclipsing Hitler's high score immensely. Labour camps, summary execution, starvation, indefinite detention, etc etc.
People were eating their children so often they had to issue posters..
They demonize Pinochet whose body count was a few thousand forging the strongest and most prosperous economy in South America, while glorifying Castro.. whose body count is estimated in the tens of thousands, soooo many summarily executed.
wake up and smell the hypocrisy Venezuela!
Theres some amazing TTC lectures on ancient Rome I think that I saw some on demonoid… or iptorrents if you're lucky enough to be a member.

>>3041019

It depresses me that we don't know more about the Regal Period. This was the most important civilization in history, and we have nothing about its founding except for an amalgamation of folklore and hearsay that both Roman and modern historians of struggled to stitch together into something resembling a coherent narrative. All we really know for certain is that at one point, early Rome had a monarchical government, and somehow became a Republic eventually. The legend is that there were a series of 7 kings, starting with Romulus (who probably wasn't even a real person). Each successive king made a valuable contribution to the city, creating some aspect of Roman society. However, the 7th king was cruel and sadistic tyrant. In response, the Romans rose up and killed him, re-forming the government as a Republic with the goal of ensuring that such a wicked man could never obtain absolute power again.

Of course, this is only a legend, but it does seem to contain some kernel of truth. During the Republican era, the Romans HATED kings no matter where they came from. Politicians suspected of desiring kingship were regarded with deep suspicion, which btw is exactly why Caesar was murdered. The word "Rex" (meaning "King") always carried a very negative connotation. This didn't go away even during the Roman Empire. No emperor wished to be called a Rex, it was a terrible insult. These feelings had to come from somewhere in their past. At one point, they were ruled by kings, but later they hated the very idea of the word. Something has to have triggered this change.

>>3047761
Who was using modern lens to talk about Rome, slavery, and women? This ain't Ted-Ed boy. Did you even read the posts?
We were simply saying that slavery as an institution is wrong and never was good. I don't care who practices it. Some idiot was trying to make the case that being a slave isn't inherently bad and that's where people started bringing up modern examples. Slavery as a concept is terrible.

>>3048378

>Who was using modern lens to talk about Rome, slavery, and women?
>Slavery as a concept is terrible.

You, apparently. The idea that slavery is an inherently terrible concept is itself as modern lens. Back then, taking defeated enemies as slaves during wars was pretty much standard procedure.

>>3048378
well i havent read the argument but a common one is that the slavery we're most familiar with (the african slave trade) is a lot worse than the slavery the romans had. They all had a chance to buy/earn their freedom, they werent actually worked all that hard in most cases since the rich had tons of slaves to do every little thing as a sign of their wealth so you might be the guy that just has to do the dishes or wave the fan, not all that cruel or unusual. It obviously varied, and you will always have evil shit go down when one human owns another, but you'd much rather be a roman slave than an african plantation slave, less work on average, higher living conditions, better future prospects, and eventually they even got some rights to protect them from abuse. It was common for citizens to voluntarily become "slaves" to pay off debts.

>>3048394
Yes...blacks had it worse in a way since they were made slaves because they were black. Meanwhile all slaves in Rome were only made slaves because they weren't Roman. It depended yes, but I don't see anyone here saying American slavery was better of blacks was better. Being a slave in the mines or farms(basically like plantations) was horrid.
At the end of the day, our points were no slavery is better as you do not own your body or your life as a slave. Your master is the only one who determines what rights you have. Your master is the one who determines whether your life will be a living hell or a paradise. Even as an educated slave you can never refuse or delay to do something your master tells you as a slave though unlike a normal job or ask for the day off. They decide if they will give you breathing room.

>>3048378
>Slavery as a concept is terrible.
only liberals care about concepts

>>3048438
>slaves in Rome were only made slaves because they weren't Roman

not true really, slaves were either: children of slaves, prisoners of war, criminals, peoppe sold by their parents to pay off a debt, or volunteers (usually with a debt). Romans fought other romans just as much as they fought other peoples, and if you got caught on the wrong side of a civil war you could end up a slave. If you were born into slavery, you were considered part of the "Vernae" social class and given more care.

>>3048472
Yes yes yes. freedman could become slaves. I know and you said that already. It was mostly as debt though or being kidnapped. That doesn't change my point. I wasn't saying black slaves had it better. That was my proof they had it worse actually.

>>3048464
You're an idiot. That's why concepts mean nothing to you.
But go ahead board become a slave in a rich family's house because you lost your job and are in debt. They will cloth you and give you food right? I'll even pray for you that the master you get is not a psychopath.
The rest of us concerned with "concepts" like dignity, freedom of personhood, and self-respect will make it on our own.

>>3048438
To be, working in a mine is horrid for everyone. Even in the modern day and with the advent of stuff such as unions, a miners job is one of the worst possible.

>>3048514
Yet they aren't beaten for not working. They don't have to be there either.

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I learned Roman soldiers would taunt besieged cities during inter-Latin conflicts by shooting projectiles into the city with insults, making fun of them for starving under siege, or saying they'd fuck the commander's wife in the ass when they breach the city.

>>3045973
Reason behind torture is that they believed no slave would testify against his owner under any case even if slave says he willing to. So there would be cases where slave telling everything but still getting tortured quite silly

>>3048635
They would write it on rocks then throw them using slingshots some of it survived to this day

>>3047863
I'm sure if you dig into the terminology Rex would have been the title given to what we would have referred to as a Tribal Chieftain before it began the process of "civilizing" and adopting a more advanced form of government. The idea of each leader providing a valuable improvement is an example of a foundation myth that the Romans had on how they became a nation instead of just a people in a tribe.

>>3046971
One thing you need to understand about Roman society is the idea of "Imperium" which is a very broad term for a great deal of things. In the family, fathers had absolute control over everything since they were the masters of the household. From the Athenian-Greeks, they inherited a very repressed female counterpart who was subservient to the Husband. This idea of "Imperium" also extended to the state, people had Imperium to exercise military powers like a father would over his children (the Roman people)

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OCTAVIA THE YOUNGER HAS CLEANER PUSSY THAN Tigellinus'S LIPS


DWI ROASTIES

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>>3046963
>Central Anatolia must be the most ravaged region in all Eurasia, at least from the bronze age to the ottoman period.
This is generally what happened. Thankfully Anatolia is so full of mountains that some pockets managed to thrive. But pic related definitely has a theme.

>>3043591
>The last records of the Legion show some of its elements stationed in Egypt just two years before the Islamic Conquest (637 A.D).
>they were destroyed by the Arabs
What a shame.

>>3043667
Just started this on monday, really enjoying it. It is constantly improving as it goes as well

>>3048635
>>3048654
truly the greatest civilization

>>3041200
>https://pastebin.com/9MriQCz6

Nice job Anon

>>3049328
Jesus Christ it got fucked up.

>>3046163

>Mods will allow this faggotry bait on /his/

>>3048787
I understand that completely, anon. I was just voicing an opinion(that it wasn't really fair) on the matter based on some facts(that child birth is hell and having kids for men doesn't take much effort until they are actually born).
Even then Roman fathers did not start investing intimate time with the children(namley sons) until they were near teens.

>>3041019

Bump.

>>3048502
>But go ahead board become a slave in a rich family's house because you lost your job and are in debt. They will cloth you and give you food right? I'll even pray for you that the master you get is not a psychopath.

literally better than being a wagecuck and a serf for banks, insurance companies, and international corporate empires in every way.

at least you know who your masters are.

SO I wanted to have a thread about Roman religion ad worship but I guess no one was really interested. I decided to ask it here.
what were the religious rituals and practices for some of the major cults like Ares/Mars, Venus/Aphrodite, Juno/Hera, Athena/ Minerva etc.? Did they all require animal sacrifices or human blood offering in some way or was it only certain ones like Mars or Minerva?
I know with Jupiter, at least in Rome, they relied on the movement on birds to learn of his will. What about actual worship?

>>3051879
Thanks