Need some help on Hungary

when i had a class of it at uni we didnt have any books about it, im not sure such a work exists

>>3036957
I think there are books in hungarian but not available in English. I only found some papers so I can summ ut what happened in Hungary.

>1986
>economic crisis
>Communist Party in Hungary divided between hardliner and reformers (Imre Poszgay)
>Pozsgay starts a coup and removes the Hardliners
>same time intelectuals starts the Oppositional round table
>the reform communist and Oppositional round table negotiate for free elections

Did I miss some detailes?

>>3036989
yea, shitloads

are you hungarian?

>>3037016
No, that is why I am asking. Which details? I need to Know.

>>3037089
first of all, you need to know that even in 1988, it was not in anyones mind that the system can be replaced

russian army was stationed in the country, the regime relied on them
if you want names, Kádár is the a main figure, traitor of 1956 and founder of his own system, gulashcommunism. in 1988 Kádár was a senile old man, unable to rule further
he was coupped by a hardline commie, Grósz, who was threatened to use the workers guard (an armed militia of the party) if civil disorders wont stop, using terminology of the old times, enemies of the ppl and so on.

since gorbachev announced peresztroika, the opposition became way more active, previously only publishing underground newspapers and having "flying universities" (meaning using apartments to hold gatherings for the publics, in secret, 50-60 ppl in a flat listening to someone or having political discussion)

some demonstrations and policy brutality later, the opposition founds its own parties, one of them was the Fidesz, the current ruling party.

the regime becomes paralized, as theres no clear directive from moscow, some ppl want peace, others want to shut these voices in the party

in 1989 Pozsgay says 1956 was a rebellion not a counter revolution, still saying it was a revolution
in march 15, a huge demonstration happens, it is here thats the first time its said we want freedom and democracy

>the oppostion form the round table
>the iron curtain is taken down, pan european picnic, german unification made easier
>the ruling party disbands itself, form 2 different parties
1990
>soviets agree to leave
>free elections
>conservatives win
>leave the warsaw pact
1991
>last soviet soldier leaves
>Hungary is free

i should add that ppl were afraid of the russians, in 1956 they demolished any hope of freedom, crushed the revolution and sent a bunch of ppl to

as a result instead of a revolution, it was only a change of system
or as we joke about it, change of method or change of gangsters, meaning replacing one corrupt and inept regime with another

that goes on for 25years now

nobody wanted to make it an armed conflict, but they were there, in their barracks, with their tanks, only a phonecall away to roll out

as a result of that, the previous regime and its ppl never exited politics, huge amount of wealth was stolen in the transition period, agents of the regime were never exposed officially and so on.

>>3037127
>Grosz
Yes, he replaced Kadar. But was not he replaced by the liberals because it was discovered he gave some shelter to Causescu?

Also, was the hungarians roundtable negoatiors caused by events in Poland? It seems to be that the main reason why the hungarian intellectuals decided to take on the communists ie bcause the were encourage by the Polish round table which started few months earlier.

>march 15 1989
Where? Do you have sources

>>the ruling party disbands itself, form 2 different parties
What? I thoug the Communist party formed only the MSZP. Which is the other?

Also, the 1949 consitution was not replaced by the conservatives but amendemnets were added. Can you name which exactly? Do you have the text of the 1989 consitution on English?

I agree Janos Kadar was a traitor. He was the one who begged the Russian to attack his country back in 1956. He also founded a counter goverment to that of PM Imgre Nagy.

Also, why was this period after 1956 called goulash communism?

>>3037167
the MSZMP disbanded itself, as you said hard liners and reformists, it came to forming factions inside the party, ultimately leading to disbanding itself
Németh, the current prime minister was one of the catalists of this, mainly because he knew how much shit the economy was in, completely indebted

polish events certainly encouraged the opposition, when the regime showed weakness it was natural to form atleast a seemingly united platform, the opposition was consisted of liberals, nationals, ex peasant party, basicly, all previous party oranganisations(apart from fascists, they were there, but not officially, theyd discredit everything), and they did not like eachother

just google 1989. march 15. freedom square demonstrations

the other is the Workers Party, Munkáspárt, with Thürmer as leader, still exists, only as a joke, their program recently was to strenghten economical relations with north korea

that constitution changed so its a democracy, free elections, multi party system, freedom of speech, free market economy,all the things that could not have been in a socialist one

another modification is the state organisation of 1990

President of the republic appoints members of the government (based on the PMs suggestions), hes elected every 5 years by the parliament
local elections for town majors, representatives


this was changed in 2012 to a new one for better or worse

>>3037181
because Kádár gave the ppl gulash, meaning a much better standard of living than anyone before, as an exchange for silence
the slogan was "If you are not against us, you are with us" as opposed to "who is not with us, is against us"

one of the shocks was experiencing rapid decrease of standard of living after 1990, as a result, MSZP won in 1994
many ppl are nostalgic about the era, things were cheap, you had safety and you had access to most of the things you wanted

>>3037167
and read this

http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~ces/publications/docs/pdfs/CEE_WP16.pdf

>>3037285
You are very informative, thanks. I have never knew for the 15th March demonstration.

>that constitution changed so its a democracy, free elections, multi party system, freedom of speech, free market economy,all the things that could not have been in a socialist one
Yes, I am aware of this. It is just which part and articles. As I understood they added Constitnutional amendmends XVI, XXIX, XL, XLIV, LIV. i LXII. So is there anywhere the English translation of this amendmends?

>President of the republic appoints members of the government (based on the PMs suggestions), hes elected every 5 years by the parliament
True. The president is back than as it is now a ceremonial figure apointed by a parliament. The First one Arpad Gonz was coming from a liberal party that was not Fidesz.

Can you tell me more about your elections system? As I am aware there it is a mixed system of FPTP and proportional representation.

Also, please tell me. There was this 4 referendums in 1990. How were they proposed in first place?

>and read this
Thank you very much

>one of the shocks was experiencing rapid decrease of standard of living after 1990, as a result, MSZP won in 1994
many ppl are nostalgic about the era, things were cheap, you had safety and you had access to most of the things you wanted
So this will mean Antall is today not a quite Popular figure in Hungary?

>>3037346
im not sure, it was changed in 2012, with a new election system too, maybe in some eu page, since we are part of the EU now

Uncle Árpi, recently passed away, was maybe the most popular figure of politics, he was part of the SZDSZ, a now non existant party of liberals (alliance of free democrats)

the elections were changed, that election system was
386 seats
seat distribution
>party lists
>personal votes
>votes that didnt result in a seat distributed fairly

its a difficult but fair system, was changed in 2012 to favour Fidesz

the 4 yes referendum questions
>president elected only after elections?
>party officials out of workplaces
>ruling party accountable for its wealth
(immense amount)
>disbanding the Workers Guard (Party's armed militia)

the first question was up for debate, liberals wanted to stop Pozsgay (very popular that time, would likely win public voting) to become the president, considering he was still a commie and to them, just a pragmatic turncoat, it worked, and Göncz then was elected by parliament

Antall died in 1993, his government was in a very difficult place and became unpopular very fast
when he died on a sunday, the walt disney broadcast for kids was disrupted, these kids became a generation know as duck tales generation (was the cartoon which was disrupted)

i should add that the population was and probably still is politically and economically illiterate (i think its ok to say that as a native)

when all this happened, ppl only saw coca cola, western cars, mcdonalds, western electronics, anything western was praised

symbols of high standard of living and everyone hoped or thought that we will become just like that, by changing systems

what followed was a rude awakening, the country had a screwed economy, producing things that werent competitive (not all but lots)

in the village i was born, we had a shoe factory, a steel mill, a mill, grain silos

we had mining, steel factories, cloth factories, all producing things just for the sake of producing, running a deficit but still financed by the state

the soviets were gone, they stopped their orders, factories were closing down and sold, ppl losing their jobs en mass

so instead of paradise it was hell for avarage joe, the population experience unemployement for the first time, there was no place to work anymore by default

since communism conditioned ppl that the state will take care of them, they looked to the government and it could tell them they get measily welfare or a new phenomenom, healthy ppl declaired unhealthy for work, for better benefits (for a price at the doc ofcourse)

so the next election were won by those who promised better conditions, and that turned to a lie too, and the cycle continued till the world economy crisis, where the country almost defaulted, since then 2009-2016 it was strict austerity, with Fidesz doing everything they could to stay in power, turning large amount of ppl politically inactive

Why are there so many revolutions in Hungary? I only know three though (1848, 1956, 1989).

>>3037414
the 4 yes referendum questions
>president elected only after elections?
>party officials out of workplaces
>ruling party accountable for its wealth
(immense amount)
>disbanding the Workers Guard (Party's armed militia)

And who initiated them? Does it comes from the Round table of the reformed communists?

File: shitposting.jpg (637KB, 2291x1024px)

637KB, 2291x1024px

>>3037453
by fidesz, szdsz

they did not want an ex party president
>>3037449
>they love
>riots

>>3037446
This seems to be the same story in all former communists country. People believed if they switch to democracy they would necesarly have the same standard of living. Such event like 1989 today would be unimaginable.

Also, you are to hard on your PM. Orban is more popular outside of Hungary than within. You need to also realise how developed in economy you became in the last decade.

I remember back in the early 2000s we were going to Hungary to buy cheap stuff. Today it is impossible.

>>3037468
hes wasting our money on useless shit like stadiums, football, foreign economic relations with cuba and ethiopia, licking putins ass, ignoring healthcare, bringing down education

all this to support his lackeys who financed him, our economy is a joke, we are a german assembly plant

>>3037449

1989 wasn't really a revolution in Hungary (unlike in Romania).
There was a revolution in 1918 which established a social democratic republic for a few months.

>>3037481
>we are a german assembly plant
LOL what? I am not sure are you aware what does mean. The Germans are dictating every member state of the EU what should be done or not. Hungary seems to be one of few which are resisting this tendecies.

Besides, not accepting refugees he is protecting local economy. I recall a recent case where this one dutch beer firm treatened because having a red star as logo. The real reason is that your government tried to protect your own local beer production from strong competition, which according to current EU rules are impossible.

As for other I do not see a problem with "foreign economic relations with cuba and ethiopia, licking putins ass". It is nothing bad.

If anything you learned from democracy is that every politicians is generic corrupt and loves to steal. But if some politicians who loves to steal makes good things than you should not be so hard.
Do you know that Hungary is using most money from EU fonds despite being the most undisciplined? On other hand you have Slovenia which is very disciplined but dont get a lot of Money like hungary.

Anyway, I need more Resources on your countries tranisiton to democracy.

>>3037483
>Romania
Neither was in Romania. It was basically a part of the communists removing Chausescu from power because his regime was to personal. The ploters even had support from the West.

>>3037494
please stop the polfag parrotting, he did what he lawfully had to, stop uncontrolled entry to schengen borders. (dublin III agreement is STILL in order!)

we are completely, utterly and absolutely dependant on german economic, they have multiple factories in the country, the biggest GDP producing ones, mercedes, opel, audi

and most importantly, what little economy we have, is exports to germany

local business and economy is still of communist tier, a select few companies winning every standard for government money, but not expanding outside its borders, because guess what, they dont produce anyting that would sell abroad

it is bad, non developed countries can buy one thing from us, agricultural products, low value, high risk, NONE of these project produced profit so far, who the fuck thinks the future is exporting cherry to cuba, or chickens to ethiopia, licking putins ass is bad, hes using us, to gain legitimacy, if we are dependant on him, he might just turn us into ukraine, there was already a chechen fuck trying to beat up a local because he disgraced the soviet liberator statue (fuck them), we simply dont have an intelligence agency, currently one of our parliamenters HAVE ESCAPED TO ABKHAZIA to avoid getting arrested, the KGB holiday resort

so what if EU gives us money? its nothing of value, fountains and bicycle roads wont give you jobs, an economy, modernized energy sector, it all goes to the pockets of the select few

>>3037483
>social democratic
You mean aggressive communist

>>3037545

That was in 1919.

>>3037529
How is Hungary able to export something if their local businesses aren't competitive then?

>>3037529
>so what if EU gives us money? its nothing of value, fountains and bicycle roads wont give you jobs, an economy, modernized energy sector, it all goes to the pockets of the select few
I just cannot believe what I am reading here.

>he did what he lawfully had to, stop uncontrolled entry to schengen borders. (dublin III agreement is STILL in order!)
And it is not strange to you that other countries were not allowed to do the same as Hungary?

It is because Germany blackmailed us all if we do like Orban did we would get sanctioned by the EU. The fact that Orban managed to not get blackmailed says a lot of him.

>we are completely, utterly and absolutely dependant on german economic, they have multiple factories in the country, the biggest GDP producing ones, mercedes, opel, audi

and most importantly, what little economy we have, is exports to germany

local business and economy is still of communist tier, a select few companies winning every standard for government money, but not expanding outside its borders, because guess what, they dont produce anyting that would sell abroad
And here you demonstrated your illitercy avout economy. Germany moving its production in Hungary is a good think, it gives jobs to your workforce at the expense of the German workforce.

Audi and other firms opened their factories in Hungary at their own expense and Resources. So in this procees the Hungarians were not harmed by neither one cent.

For "few companies winning every standard for government Money" I cannot say whether it is true or not as it must verified by sources.

The fact that Germany did not pulled its factories despite being in bad relationships with Hungary says a lot about Viktor Orban and his diplomacy.

In other Eu countries that is not the case as Germany is blackmailing us to do what its demand only for a small portion of this what you have.

>>3037545
>>3037549
the aster revolution, following the defeat of ww1 called for social reforms and seen a social democrat government borned, which then quickly succumed to the commie-anticommie fighting

the commies seized power, started the red terror and the only faction that defended the country against the czechslovak and romanian invasions

>>3037483
>There was a revolution in 1918 which established a social democratic republic for a few months.
That was a domino effect, first started by Jews in Russia and Germany.

>>3037567
german demand, they make contracts to buy cheaply, turn it into profit in germany, raw or semi raw industrial products for their economy

>>3037571
your own fault for being a greedy pussies

germans didnt move their entire production, they just moved some of it, because its cheaper here, not my fault Hans wont pick up a needle if its not for thousands of euros, they still have less unemployement rate, so keep your insults to yourself

ALL of their factories got benefits, land, taxation, excempt from profit taxes

all it says you aint know shit about politics, both merkel are using eachother for their political goals, but making it sure, economic harm comes to nobody, letting Orbán show decent numbers here, and letting Merkel have her population undisturbed economic well being.

you are jelly as always, like we are some sorta exception, what we actually do is not lick boots unconditionally, nobody will get sanctions, thats not beneficial for german economics

Back to the topic. Can somebody name all faction of the Roundtable talk?

>>3037588
>Jews
Even in Hungary was so. Bela Khun and half of ministers were Jewsih. The minister education of Khuns government was even the founder of the Frankfurt school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gy%C3%B6rgy_Luk%C3%A1cs

>>3037609
SZDSZ, free democrats union
MDF, hungarian democratic forum
FIDESZ, union of young democrats
KDNP, christian democratic peoples party
FKGP, Independent Smallholders, Agrarian Workers and Civic Party
MSZDP. hungarian socialdemocrat party
MNP, hungarian peoples party (national peasant party before 1945)
Bajcsy Zsilinksy Endre friend's club (he was an antifascist, executed by nazis in '44)

>>3037617
its Kun, it had very little to do who was jewish and who wasnt, the entirey society and country was collapsing and in state of disorder after 1918

>>3037686
It's Cohn.

>>3037670
>SZDSZ
Thanks

>>3037706
lol Cohn is anglicised for Kun

>>3037756
Anglicized? What the fuck are you talking about, his original name was Cohn/Kohn/Cohen and he changed it to Kun (as in Cuman) to sound less jewish.

All the good Hungarians left in 56.

>>3037771
>all the cowards
ftfy

>>3037483
>There was a revolution in 1918 which established a social democratic republic

Leave /his/, now.

>>3037776
>fight for freedom
>get betrayed
Might as well flee.

>>3037771
the only good Hungarian left in 1944

BATTLE OF KRESSEBRUNN BEST DAY OF MY LIFE

ARPÁDS BTFO

>>3037823
>pepiks LAPRING as germans

you deserved your fate