>Catholics will defend this

>>303026
>massacre all the catholics in your country and sell the survivors as slaves to turks
>get btfo
I don't see a problem here

Wait, if Byzantine was Roman, were the successor states the Roman Empire too?

>>303048
They all claimd to be the legitimate Roman Empire, the names on the map, like Byzantium, are names we made up for them later.

File: 1438770794489.png (186KB, 400x281px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 400x281px

>Calls themselves Roman
>Does not submit to the REAL Roman empire

>>303055
Can I be the Roman Empire too?

Except they don't. Previous popes apologized.

>>303026
The 4th crusade was an inside job

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r376MkZwLI

File: 1440825592841.jpg (47KB, 400x386px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 400x386px

>>303060
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire

>all that rightful italian clay that will never come back

File: banter face computer.jpg (148KB, 1111x597px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1111x597px

>>303077
>the empire of the greeks

>>303072
Venetian funds can't melt Orthodox walls.

Byzantium was going to fall anyway.(Which was mostly down to emperors being constantly overthrown and assassinated and alienating every ally they had)

This revisionist bullshit about how they 'Defended Christian Europe' is a Joke, They never helped the Kingdom of Jerusalem and actually came close to going to war with them on more than a few occasions.

>>303026
Are there any people knowing the actual history that do not root for the crusaders there?
I'm honestly puzzled how one could favor the Byzantine case here. They did everything they could to fuck up crusaders for 100 years. They massacred Catholics. They didn't pay the denbts. They broke treaties and didn't deliver on payments to westerners. They were notably incompetent in all areas except backstabbing. They relied on Venetians for protection against the Turks and got what came to them when trying to fuck with Venice.

Byzantine history from 1050 on is a textbook on what not to do in diplomacy.

>>303055
Wales has as much a claim as the Greeks did t.b.h family

>>303026

>Ottomans will attack this

>>303114
You're aware they defended Christian Europe by stopping Muslims getting in through Constantinople for several hundred years, not because they defended Jerusalem right?

>>303196
>defended Christian Europe
You mean a wild and savage Balkans

>>303207
Great reply. Whats west of the Balkans?

>>303215
Italy, France, and Spain, already invaded by Muslims.

>>303034
This. In some of the Crusades, the Greek Empire actually helped the Muslims against the Crusaders. Only one Emperor was really friendly for the Crusaders. The other ones, were basically Sweden ("Hey, why are you so violent against our Muslim neighbors?")

>>303227
The Latins were literally worse than Jews and Muslims, who lived in Constantinople and didn't get massacred (except by Latins of course).

>>303026

Yea they did, but only for like 60 years if I remember correctly. Hard to blame them though, they spread themselves a little thin after reking all those bitch-ass Greeks.

>>303222
Oh, you don't know anything. Alright.

>>303222
>the mooslimes were totally gonna overrun frankish france guys
>with 20000 raiders

>>303114
>They never helped the Kingdom of Jerusalem

That's because the 'kingdom of jerusalem' was illegitimate and stolen from the byzantines by the crusaders. All of the crusade leaders in the first crusade made sacred vows to return all lands that they seized to the byzantines, then they just decided to keep them for themselves. Perfidious westerners

>>303252
>Westerners invading the middle east for the precious (olive) oil

History repeats itself yet again!

in retrospective

>>303142
>Byzantine history from 1050 on is a textbook on what not to do in diplomacy.
You idiot, diplomacy was the only thing that kept the byzantine empire afloat after they ceased to field native armies. They were able to cleverly keep their enemies at bay by encouraging their enemy's rivals and paying 'gifts'

>>303243
>What's west of the Balkans?
>Countries that are accurately west of the Balkans and were fighting Muslims the Byzantines were supposedly protecting everyone from

>>303236
And then they wonder why the 4th Crusade happened.

Come to Greece to help. Emperor treats you badly. Some other Emperors actually help the Muslims. Greeks massacre your fellow Christian brothers, to help those of other religions.

>>303261
The problem was the two people the Byzantines tried to manipulate and control diplomatically, the Franks and the Turks, were both too martial and too organized to control the same way Rome had.

>>303269
yes, indeed the italian nation fought the muslims in sicily.
that has nothing to do with the byzantines trying to retake it from time to time and ending up with the normans retaking it.

I blame the Venetian jews more than the Catholics to be honest.

>>303278
>Come to Greece to help
-yourselves to the economy like literal Jews

>>303284
>Please Pope, help us. The Turks are conquering all of Greece.
>K, lol. Bohemond, Raymond, Godfrey, go get them.
And then, proceed to treat the heroic Crusaders like shit, leaving them to fend the Turks by themselves instead of reinforcing them.

>>303299
Yeah, I'm sure for all those hundreds of miles marching from the Balkans to Antioch the Crusaders just fed themselves with their sack lunches their mothers packed for them back home.

>What's this? A shipment of goods from an English fleet that showed up out of nowhere (i.e. Greek ports after the Byzantine commander promised supplies)? Must be God's Will

>The Turks are conquering all of Greece
That would be the Normans themselves, multiple times, including said 'heroic Crusader' Bohemond. After they conquered Southern Italy from the Greeks, of course, and followed by Venetians and Genovese and Pisans fighting in the streets of Constantinople for the right to be the biggest Jews of the city.

>>303142
>They massacred Catholics
If you knew about actual history you'd know that the Latins in Constantinople used tobfight with each other and damage the City in the process. They deserved to get kicked out.
>didnu nuffin

>>303280

West Rome didn't do so well with the Franks either.

The real problem with the Crusaders was that they massacred the largest Christian city on the planet. Claiming the empire for your own is one thing, but an empire of what? Bones and ashes? They had no real plan to rule.

>>303299
>Byzantine army far away from turks
>get intel saying the turks are almost there and about to slaughter them
>if we go in we'll die too
>we'll remember you crusaders
>turks get intel saying Byzantines almost there
>oh fuck we can't take both
>let's get out of here scoobs
>crusaders sitting around
>GOD WILLS IT GAS THE GREEKS RELIGION WAR GO
Also when the greeks offered them guides through Anatolia and the Crusaders told them to fuck off and promptly got slaughtered because of it

>>303048
They are the Roman Empire and never stopped being the Roman Empire

>>303026
Except they don't defend it because the Pope excommunicated those responsible.

>>304529
>Except they don't defend it because the Pope excommunicated those responsible.
Lol, no

>To all the clergy and people in the Christian army at Constantinople.

>If the Lord had granted the desires of His humble servants sooner, and had transferred, as He has now done, the empire of Constantinople from the Greeks to the Latins before the fall of the Holy Land, perhaps Christianity would not be weeping today over the desolation of the land of Jerusalem. Since, therefore, through the wonderful transference of this empire God has deigned to open to you a way to recover that land, and the detention of this may lead to the restoration of that, we advise and exhort you all, and we enjoin upon you for the remission of your sins, to remain for a year in Romania, in order to strengthen the empire in its devotion to the Apostolic See and to us, and in order to retain it in the power of the Latins; and to give wise advice and efficient aid to Baldwin, our most beloved son in Christ, the illustrious emperor of Constantinople; unless, perchance, your presence in the Holy Land should be necessary before that time, in which case you ought to hasten to guard it before the year elapses.

He only excommunicated (and then rescinded the order) them at Zara for attacking Catholics.

> This thread
http://www1.dcsdk12.org/secondary/phs/Academics/summer%20reading%20assignments/Outside%20and%20Inside%20the%20Fourth%20Crusade.pdf

Watch realcrusadehistory and get redpilled brah, Catholics were basically the National Socialists of their day--protecting the white race and their religion.

>beg Western barbarians for help because you can't defend yourselves against Muslims
>Western barbarians travel halfway across the world to save your useless cowardly asses and fight your enemies for you
>constantly betray them at every turn
>massacre the 60 000 Latins of Constantinople and sell the survivors as slaves to the Turks
>all while being insufferable arrogant shits

>cry about it when Westerners finally get tired of your shit and just take over

Byzantines...

File: Both+of+them+can+still+escape+_92b3a1b48ddc878b4d0ec4f405aa6461[1].jpg (89KB, 542x350px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 542x350px

>>303283
>Venetian jews

le fannei meymey
lets ignore that venice was the most anti-semitic place on the planet at the time
and i dont think there was a single venetian soldier in constantinople massacring people

>b-b-but they paid us to commit genocide, so its okay! not our fault!!!

>>303299
>Please Pope, help us. The Turks are conquering all of Greece.
Translation:
>The last battle went sour, can I get 2000 good crossbowmen to put on my walls just in case? I'll pay for them.

>K, lol. Bohemond, Raymond, Godfrey, go get them.
Translation:
>Sure, my old boy, have these 60000 peasants that will raid and pillage all the way to Constantinople, and those few thirsty royalties with their private armies and their personal feuds. I hope you can feed and house them all!!

And then, proceed to pillage all the way to Constantinople, including in Hungary and the Balkans, to attack the garrison of a Byzantine town, to fight among each other, to massacre greeks when they "liberate" (read: raid) a settlement in Anatolia, to declare land they conquer as their own rather than return it, and in incredible feats of incompetence to almost fail despite their huge advantage in manpower and technology.

The crusades are a joke, other than the Lionheart's attempts, and those werent particularly successful either in the grand scheme of things.
The only places crusading worked were the baltics and Iberia, where they were killing europeans.

>>305150
That's bluepilled as fuck. Bet you love immigration Muhammed.

>>305133
Literally the most pathetic empire to ever exist desu.

>>305154
>>305154
epic tumblr meme dude

>>305163
Triggered are we?

>>305154
Thats historical fact. And I am not muslim.

>>305169
Another person replied to you, but I'll cover that one: No, I am not triggered. I am used to /pol/ responses by now.

>>305178
Whatever Ahmed.

>>305154
>>305169
>>305181
Wow great argument fagtron you sure convinced me with those hot opinions.

>>303026
>Catholics will defend this

Didn't the pope apologize for that?

>>305189
>I'm sorry we genocided you. Please forgive us murdering you.

>>305133
Don't forget the earlier thing they did to Venice
>Venice is basically the empire's navy
>gets special trade concessions for it exceptional service in defense of Constantinople
>Greek merchants get mad that Venetian merchants are doing better than them
>empire captures and imprisons ALL Venetians in the empire for 20-30 years
>the few that manage to escape inform Venice
>Venice fields a huge naval force to persuade Constantinople to rescind the decision
>fleet willingly stops at podunk island to sue for diplomacy with their mother state
>ambassador/emperor do nothing but stall while Venetians are inflicted with plague and squalor
>dejected best child of the Byzantium forced to return home in shame
>Venetian mob incredibly unhappy with doge, leads to doge's death, the city in flames, and the loss of the relics of St. Mark
>Greeks laugh about not paying debnts while switching to Genoa/Pisa/Amalfi, only to massacre them later

>>305393
You forgot the part where they pour molten glass into doge Dondolo's eyes to blind him.
Its about as likely to have happened as your interpretation.

File: KonstantinosIX.jpg (111KB, 275x298px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 275x298px

>all these hacktholics pretending their barbarian ancestors dindu nuffin

I've read quite a few histories of the crusades, and not a single one paints the Byzantines as badly as some of you here.

You think the TPP is bad?

You might recall that the duty free import licenses given to foreign merchants meant they paid less effective tax than local merchants. It's like a tariff on local production and led to the decimation of the merchant class.

The empire was perfectly within its rights to negotiate better trade deals and play one party off against another. It is what any rational actor would have done.