Elephant Warfare

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>>3026266
If they were completely useless people wouldn't have bothered with them for hundreds of years. Bad ideas don't tend to last long if your military success and life depend on it.

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>>3026266
It's weaponized autism that worked nowhere else outside of northern africa.

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>>3026289
It worked find in southeast asia and India.

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>>3026266
So was it only persians, Indians, and Thais who used them excessively or no? I'm assuming!in the person referenced here is Thai.>>3026279

Also Thai history thread?

>>3026292
Correct, I always forget about elephants over there.

>>3026292
Why did it work so well most of the time there?

>>3026300
I just pulled it from an osprey book on war elephants. I am European and frankly I know jack all about South East Asian history.

1. Psychological. You, despite any imaginary notions you might hold, would definitely shit your pants if you were a rank-and-file frontline soldier (or worse, forcefully-conscripted militiaman who cares or identifies very little with whoever commands them) who saw a formation of war elephants approaching you. Psychological warfare is an extremely important tactic. It also bolsters morale of your own military to see such a formation in action. The grandeur of such a formation contributes to your strategy. I don't know if you've ever heard a perturbed elephant's cry, but it is extremely loud and rather terrifying. Imagine 20+ of them shouting at once before rampaging towards you.

2. Tactics. An elephant is difficult to kill with small arms, really only falling out of use with the advent and widespread use of large arms like cannons that could reliably kill them from a distance. A war elephant equipped with tusk blades would charge an enemy formation (or significantly bolster their own line from a charge), also trampling infantry while requiring disciplined retaliation in the form of long arms like spears which still required significant focus to finally bring down because of their sheer resilience (then the dead elephant just collapses on enemy infantry, crushing them and disgorging enraged warriors and handlers into the midst of the now-broken formation).

>>3026343
But wouldn't the handlers get hurt from the high fall too? And is the risk and danger of trying to tame elephants really worth it? Not to mention feeding them.

>>3026322
Asian elephants are smaller and easier to tame.

>>3026343
>But wouldn't the handlers get hurt from the high fall too?
Male Asiatic elephants tend to be between 2-3 meters in height; emergency debarkation is possible if you're in the howdah, as long as you can make a split-second observation of how the elephant is collapsing. A straight-downward collapse means you can disembark from either the back or the side, while a sideways collapse necessitates you try to escape on the other side while clinging as best you can to the howdah's drapery (some ornamentation of the howdah provided such a means), or simply to the animal itself. These disembarking techniques would be practiced by handlers and cavalry-deployed soldiers.
>And is the risk and danger of trying to tame elephants really worth it?
Cultural heritage says yes, considering elephants are fairly intelligent. They only disappeared from practical military roles once their hard counters appeared en masse, relegating them to ceremonial roles as officer/nobility's cavalry.

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>>3026407
Can't imagine an elephant falling anyway but sideways for some reason(pic related) but thanks for the insight. It's just considering they are smart, I heard they can be hard to control and can turn on you if they are dissatisfied with their treatment or a situation, going into a rage or frenzy.

>>3026266
Elephants probably work better as unit than horse in thick tropical forest warfare in south Asia/southeast Asia

>>3026448
Well they do usually fall to the side, but they can collapse downwards if slain quickly enough, though they'll usually topple sideways upon hitting the ground.

They are very smart, so mistreatment was rare, especially since they are such revered creatures in the various cultures where they were utilized as such. It's hard to mistreat an animal that weighs 10x as much as you do, and can gore you at the slightest provocation. Cultures that used elephants for such purposes treated them very well, considering they found their way into religious significance throughout the various Asian cultures. Public mistreatment of elephants was sometimes blasphemous in those relevant regions, if only because their societies did not want to deal with constantly-raging elephants in their cities and settlements.

The 2004 movie Alexander (one of the forgotten Greek gorefest movies that tried to ride 300's coattails) depicts them as being especially effective against the Phalanx in the Battle of the Hydaspes - it shows the elephant cavalry flanking the Phalanx and running alongside their spears, knocking them out of place so they could be attacked head-on.

I have no idea if that ever happened, or why the Macedonians didn't see that eventuality coming, blah blah. It's a cool movie though, in spite of the obvious appeal to goriness..

>>3026699
300 wasn't released yet.

>>3026699
Here are some mockups of the Battle of Hydaspes that show how elephants were used - these show the elephants being attacked by the Phalanx head-on, rather than them having charged the Phalanx' flank:

http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=battle_hydaspes

>>3026712
Oops, you're right! Had it in my head that 300 came out in 2003.

>>3026699
>(one of the forgotten Greek gorefest movies that tried to ride 300's coattails)
It couldn't be any farther from that if it tried.

>>3026266
They may or may not be effective, depending n how many elephants you have, how your army is structured, where you are, and who you are fighting.

>>3026322
Iirc other than asian elephant being smaller they also deployed them within smaller infantry group like>>3026292
While western equivalent deploy them like cavalry

>>3026734
>It couldn't be any farther from that if it tried.
It's fairly gruesome compared to other movies depicting classical warfare - it makes Gladiator look like a G-rated kid's movie.
>They may or may not be effective, depending n how many elephants you have, how your army is structured, where you are, and who you are fighting.
No shit, Sherlock. This is true for literally every weapon, maneuver, and tactic that ever has or ever will exist. Why did you bother saying this?

>>3026824
>asian elephant
>smaller
They were considerably larger than the North African elephant. Bush elephants, which are the big fucking ones you're thinking of, were not used for war at all. Ever. Completely impossible to tame them.

North African elephants would universally lose when faced with Syrian or other Asian elephants.

>>3026836
>WE
>WUZ
>WAR ELEPHANTS
Why do Chinkelephants do this? Are they really so insecure?

>>3026300
I'm vacationing in Thailand right now, am in phuket

Rest in peace bhumibol

>>3026868
No, they're just tired of nigger elephants stealing their history.

>>3026688
>>3026688
I mean how did they get them to do what they want? Attack only the enemy and get them to brave stressful situations? They had to expose them to some terrible situations to condition them? How did they do this safely? How did they train elephants to bravely charge?

>>3027016
>Attack only the enemy
They didn't. You pointed them at a direction where the majority of humans would be enemies and hoped that they didn't get too pissed off, because angry elephants are liable to kill completely indiscriminately.

The only battle in history where they were effective was Ipsus

>>3027016
With enough training, an elephant would follow directions like a horse would, though they were liable to lose control over if sufficiently hurt or spooked. Most war elephants were probably conditioned to be around enormous crowds and loud noises while being trained.